Previous thread(s) - >>2773698 >>2773424
This thread is for the spirited discussion of CRT displays - Televisions, monitors and projectors used for the playing of retro games!
>Try to keep it /vr/-related: Nothing past 5th gen(+Dreamcast). Slight OT might be okay if related to CRTs (E.G. 16:9 compatible models, flatscreens, etc.) Systems with backwards compatibility are also pretty safe territory, assuming you're focusing on the older games. PC CRTs are also a-ok.
>Produce OC! Get out your real cameras and take beautiful pictures of your CRTs displaying recognizable characters with the kind of beautiful accuracy that brings tears to the eyes of young and old alike! If you take 100 photos, at least one of them will turn out alright! (maybe)
>Try to be as detailed as possible when asking info on a specific model. As always, google is your friend, and we are your friends with benefits. Older archived threads aren't a bad place to look either.
>Share appreciation for others choice of technology and personal philosophy of gaming. As always show courtesy in your discussion and moderate yourselves first.
Discussion of video processing and scaling devices is okay, but try to keep the focus on CRTs and CRT accessories
CRT Pastebin (WIP): http://pastebin.com/1Ri5TS3x
S-Video Pasta: http://pastebin.com/rH2h6C7W
Thread Survey: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1PhdXJYwA8xModrTV1Yt-i1tvNgwiagpeBx0m_xNIVtc/viewform?edit_requested=true&fbzx=9009823977812318933
>>2783902
I asked in the previous thread too. Where did you find the pinouts to modify this for RGB? I might be interested in doing the same thing myself.
>>2785646
>>2785690
Google 'CGA pinout'. It's not rocket science.
>>2785694
Forgot to specify, that's the PVM-20L5 I just took apart and reassembled the deflection components of to fix convergence.
playing chrono trigger on aPS2
posting from the old thread: since PVMs use BNC, I assume you can get adaptor pieces to convert to RCA, but do any models have s-video? Or does it not even matter
>>2785782
Most that have RGB also have S-Video (Y/C). Both mine do.
>>2785782
those that support s-video (a lot of them) use standard mini-din / ushiden socket.
a word for >>2783607
I have a similar cable lying around, never tested it because I was using component.
Just tried it today and it has horrible checkerboard. To be expected since it's extremely thin, probably no shielding at all.
gonna try rewire composite wire to luma to see if that can fix it.
>>2785694
>Dewgong
I FUCKING HATE THAT STUPID CUNT ALL HE DOES IS USE SLEEP ALL DAY I SWEAR I'M GONNA PUNCH HIS LITTLE BABY HORN OFF
>>2785861
/g/ is crt nazi
pictures of retro games
somehow not retro.
yeah, weak bait newfriend.
>>2785898
>>2785884
/g/ isn't about technology, it's about Mac VS PC/android and AMD vs Nvidia. it's like /v/ but instead of Sony, Nintendo, etc it's Nvidia, AMD, etc. They are all still teenagers trying to outwit each other with memes.
Of course they won't like CRT, they barely know what it is.
>2785685
>this interests me. i've been looking for overlaying genlocks, but they're expensive as all hell. is it reasonable to try to build something based around this?
Yeah, you could do something with an cheap microcontroller (not complicated nor high resolution stuff) but that will be difficult to program depending what kind of stuff you want to overlay and you going to get jittery pixels if the clock isn't in phase with the Hsync which can be fixed with a PLL circuit which generates a variable clock in phase with the Hsync.
For rather amazing and flexible overlays while being cheap and oldschool would be a Amiga with a commercial genlock device but might be too expensive for you and will only work with composite.
A genlock device for Amiga can be build from scratch but good luck finding any schematics for that because I only found a functional tech. description which lacks the schematic.
Another thing you could attempt would be to design your own video processor that suits your needs.
Any way to easily/cheaply get RF to a PVM?
I know it's shit quality, but would sometimes be useful for testing. Such as this Atari Jaguar I want to test before selling...
Britbongs might be interested in the shedload of BVM-20s which have just gone up on ebay uk today.I bought two
>>2786032
Easiest way would be a vcr that can output composite.
Hey CRT, I prefer a flat-screen tv, something a little under the 30" mark in size. I've never had good luck with the Trinitrons, I always find the geometry to be off, even when re-sizing it in the service menu. I'd like to have a component input. I'm in Canada. Can you recommend me a brand/model to look for?
>>2786048
>wanting a flatscreen
You may as well fucking go the disgusting xrgb route then.
So guys, how much would you be willing to pay for a BVM-20F1E?
Someone nearby is selling one and I want to haggle them down.
>>2786048
you can't have your cake and eat it.
Settle for either flatscreen with imperfect geometry or cylindrical tube with better geometry
>>2785987
>They are all still teenagers trying to outwit each other with memes.
And /vr/ is teenagers arguing with 60 year olds about which ones should go back to /v/ for various unforgivable offenses.
/g/ had plenty of CRT discussion for years before /vr/ existed btw, just not with a console gaming focus.
>>2786113
Weren't the Trinitrons known for bad geometry though?
>>2786106
most i'd pay is 200
if it were a D20F1x up to 500 ameribucks.i just bought a d20f1u for about 500 on ebay, no regerts.
>>2786149
Because they're flatscreen
>>2786167
All flatscreens have bad geometry? There's no brand that was known to have better geometry?
>>2786149
>>2786173
trinitrons aka aperture grille started in the late 70s. Back then only curved screens were possible.
All flat crt tvs will have more geometry troubles than curved. PC monitors will fare better because geometry was more critical and they're also deeper relative to their display size.
>>2786149
There are both flat and curved trinitrons.
>>2785696
What kind of TV is that? It's really sexy.
>>2786242
>filename
>>2786248
Thank you
messing around with the SNES emulator for ps2
For Sony PVM owners: what setup do you use for audio? Do you use the the speaker built into the monitor, or separate speakers? For separate speakers, how do you have them wired up? I got a PVM coming in the mail.
>>2786290
PVM 14M2U & 20M4U owner, I use the mono speaker on the monitor. I just use an RCA Y-splitter from RadioShack to plug in the red and white cables. Work well enough.
>>2786290
I use 2x RCA (fem) > 3.5mm headphone socket cable adapter with a set of 2.1 PC speakers (with an integrated amplifier). Probably not ideal, but better than mono audio.
Also is anyone here good with microelectronics?
Because I'm not, and I'm trying to make sense of this circuit diagram for a HV sync combiner. Does my version match up correctly?
>>2786216
>they're also deeper relative to their display size
This, it's an issue that's correctable with a deep tube. The Samsung SlimFits were horrible because they tried to do big screens with minimal depth. You saw major distortion at the edges, the kind that would make shit grow and shrink in retro games as it scrolls from edge to center to edge (similar but far worse to the uneven 4:3 stretching some 16:9 TVs and TV stations do). My 34" and 36" Sony CRT HDTVs don't have that problem, but they are obviously not for retro vidya and they weigh heavier than the moon thanks to their extended depth.
>>2786290
If you already have some spare amplified PC speakers you like, you can use something like this:
http://www.sfcable.com/SF-AVC28.html
If you have regular bookshelf or full-sized stereo speakers, you can use something like this:
http://www.amazon.com/Lepai-LP-2020A-Tripath-Class-T-Amplifier/dp/B0049P6OTI
Or just use a boombox or any other stereo with RCA inputs.
>>2786310
Almost correct.
Pin 14 must be 5V also, there must be also a bypass capacitor 100nF across the power rail (ground and power) near the IC.
Also what is the impedance/input resistance of the composite sync input on your monitor?
And does it accept AC coupled signal or is it a plain logic TTL/CMOS input?
I'm asking because if you gonna run the output into a 75ohms input then you gonna strain the IC a lot or it could fail at outputting a high enough voltage to make the monitor sync.
>>2786349
Thanks, fixed the circuit diagram (I think).
The monitor is a PVM which uses BNC so I'm guessing that yes, the external sync impedance is 75 ohms. Couldn't tell you whether it accepts a coupled signal or not but it's a PVM, so maybe(?).
Sorry I can't be more specific.
>>2786290
Onboard mono via a Y-splitter for simplicity, currently. Speakers are nice if you have the space.
>>2786368
Eh, I was the pro-CRT/pro-Apple guy in those prehistoric threads and this kind of elitism is unproductive.
>>2786391
>the external sync impedance is 75 ohms
Okay, there must be something done there between the pin 11 and Csync output.
After some research I found out it's supposed to be 1-4Vpp, that's why AC coupled is acceptable because it's says Volt peak-to-peak (and the reason why composite video doesn't work here is because it's 0.3Vpp).
A 220µF capacitor should be used with negative leg to monitor, for a rather protective purpose.
Now it seems that 74LS and 74HCT won't cut it because their high level output voltage and current is insufficient to get a >1Vpp signal on the 75ohms input.
Use 74HC86 instead and add a 220ohms resistor there to get 1.271Vpp with a max output current of 17mA (more than 20mA shouldn't be drawn from a 74HC output), if you don't understood this then lookup voltage dividers and see the 75ohms resistor in the monitor as the resistor to ground.
I think you should look up the manual of your PVM (if you can find it) and look what it says about the "EXT SYNC: BNC connector".
On manual of the PVM-1944 it said:
>composite sync 1-4Vpp, negative, 75 ohms terminated
Friendly reminder that Y-splitters aren't audio mixers and you're force-feeding your audio output back into your consoles through the inputs whenever you do this.
>>2786454
Okay I've updated the diagram again (specifically changing the i/c, and adding in C3, C4 & R3) to match what you've described; although I'm not certain about the placement of 220uF cap.
Also here's the specs from my monitor's manual;
>VIDEO IN - BNC connector (x2)
>1 Vp-p ±6 dB, sync negative
>Automatic 75 ohms termination
>EXT SYNC IN - BNC connector (x1)
>4 Vp-p, ±6 dB, sync negative
Thank you very much.
I greatly appreciate the time you're putting in to help me with this.
>>2786484
Explain the danger and also the right way to do it.
>>2786527
http://www.rane.com/note109.html
The highlight:
>Here is the rule: Outputs are low impedance and must only be connected to high impedance inputs -- never, never tie two outputs directly together -- never. If you do, then each output tries to drive the very low impedance of the other, forcing both outputs into current-limit and possible damage. As a minimum, severe signal loss results.
For line level I wouldn't worry about it much, but for quality purposes I'd use a mixer (if I really needed mono). What I'd really always do by default is to use enough speakers for the channels I want to hear in the first place.
![megamstr[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/aJlqdS0.png "megamstr[1].png")
>>2786484
If the line outputs of the consoles are meant to drive around 10kohm in AC and the engineers thought it would be a great idea of coupling their biased (DC offset) audio signal to the line input by something like a 10µF capacitor (with the 10kohm at audio input it forms a highpass filter) then the Y-splitter will mix the 2 signals together without causing any problems.
However, if the engineer was retarded (or an cheap asshole) and did not put any protective nor limiting components after the audio line driver then damage could be caused.
>>2786509
Now you messed it even more up.
Remove R3 and C4, then put them in series (after each other) between the Csync output and IC and remember that C4 is polarized and it's negative leg (electrolytic capacitors have this marking) should point to the monitor.
Like the RGB lines in pic related.
>4 Vp-p, ±6 dB, sync negative
It wants 2-8Vpp as 6dB implies either twice in amplification or attenuation by half when it comes to electronics.
Use 100 ohms as R3 to get 2.143Vpp and do not omit C4.
>>2786567
>However, if the engineer was retarded (or an cheap asshole) and did not put any protective nor limiting components after the audio line driver then damage could be caused.
I love games but high-risk guessing games are low on the list. I'd rather play it safe.
Thanks for the specifics anon.
>>2786572
Odds are usually good the engineer wasn't retarded nor cheap though.
>>2786576
It's always bad practice with high power signals, so I'd rather not get in the habit.
>>2786368
I watched /g/ fall
it was not pretty
>>2786567
Oh I see what you meant now.
I can't fix the diagram right now (currently on my phone now) but when I get home I'll modify it per your instructions just to confirm, although I'm pretty sure I understand where I went wrong.
Again, thank you.
>>2786583
I ditched /g/ for 2-3 years and came back to a sea of phoneshit. I promptly left again.
>>2786567
So, uh, is the output of my SNES with a Y-splitter into my PVM going to work for my purposes?
>>2786242
>What TV is that?
PVM-20L5. (see filename)
>>2786032
When I need RF into my PVM I connect to a VCR with something like this, and run the composite output of the VCR to my PVM.
>>2786601
Y splitter and SNES with PVM speaker worked just fine for me on my 20L5 and on every other monitor I've ever tried it on. That said, the PVM's have pretty pathetic quality speakers and when I crank the volume way up they start to interfere with the picture (magnetism). You should really consider external speakers. Even small PC speakers should work better.
>>2786565
The audio outputs of pretty much all game consoles and AV equipment are line outputs thus "high" impedance (like 300-1500 ohms), like I described here >>2786567.
These low impedance outputs you posted about are meant to directly drive speaker (coils) with 4-16ohms impedance with high power, I say this because of the lack of AC coupling capacitors that can cause, that:
>each output tries to drive the very low impedance of the other, forcing both outputs into current-limit and possible damage
Capacitors can prevent here that the one output drives the other one by charging up and isolating both drivers from each other.
Headphone outputs of rather oldschool portables (like Gameboy or Walkman) are also quite low impedance but have a rather low power output and are coupled with a rather huge capacitance like 100µF or more, the common point is connected to device's ground.
Modern headphone outputs (almost everything since 2004, I guess) are not really AC coupled but workaround these huge caps by generating a common voltage as ground for the headphones like 1.6V (half of 3.3V which comes from a 3.7-4.2V lithium battery) and having their signals DC offset on 1.6V so that silence shouldn't heat up (and damage) the headphones because it's (almost) 0V between common voltage and the signal.
Shorting stereo to mono here could cause damage.
>TL;DR mixing with a Y-splitter shall be only done by professionals that know their shit
>>2786581
Exactly, if you can't tell high power and AC coupled line level signals apart then just don't do it.
>>2786601
I actually looked the schematics up.
There should be a 1Kohm resistor and 10µF cap in series, so it's protected and safe to do.
>>2786624
(by pathetic quality, I mean the speakers have no highs or lows to them.)
>>2786624
The potential problem isn't in not working or damaging the monitor, the risk is in damaging the source device. You won't break a SNES.
>>2786640
I can confirm I haven't broken my SNES either. I don't do it anymore because PVM's have shitty speakers, but nothing broke when I did.
>>2786634
>Exactly, if you can't tell high power and AC coupled line level signals apart then just don't do it.
Right, which is also the reason I don't think it's wise to promote the idea without provisos.
Anybody here own one of these?
>>2786656
multiscan CRT, supports 15kHz and VGA
>>2786656
>peeling sticker so we can't see model number
smart.
>>2786656
ooh, neat
>>2786661
Show us that it supports 15khz. Hook a SNES up to it. Some multiscan monitors I've owned won't do 15khz RGB despite being labeled 'multiscan' and working with composite.
>>2786662
>>2786665
>>2786667
I don't have a way to output 15kHz over VGA at the moment, this is composite
But the Toshiba MM20E45 was designed for old Amiga computers that used both 15kHz and 31kHz modes
>>2786669
I'm interested and want to be proven wrong. I want RGB 15khz monitors to exist outside of the commodore 1084 and apple IIgs monitors and expensive broadcast monitors.
Sorry if it came off as rude, but I really want to see proof before I sink money into one.
>>2786673
Do you know if the Zenith H32G48S supports 15kHz over its VGA HD15 connector?
>>2786672
Neat. If you ever get a RGB to VGA breakout thing, let us know. As-is, I think there's a good chance if it was intended for Amiga's.
>>2786673
>apple IIgs monitors
I remember calling Redmond Cable as a kid hoping to get a cable to connect my SNES to my 12" //gs RGB monitor. At first the lady said she was sure they'd have something for that combination since they sold cables for them both individually, but after checking she said there was nothing to connect them both. I was gutted.
>>2786680
You're lucky - I never had a //gs monitor.
I had a //e monitor and still do to this day. This one's composite only.
my childhood //e monitor. Wish I still had the //e for it, but it was technically my family's, and they junked it while I was in college.
>>2786678
No clue, but if it can do 15khz composite I'd say it's at least worth a shot.
Apple RGB monitor
>>2786684
I wish I knew where all our old Apple stuff was. Either buried in storage or tossed out by family long ago, sadly.
>>2786728
Same here anonfriend, same here.
>>2786586
>>2786567
Alright, I hope I got it right this time.
Although before ordering parts and whatnot I really need to confirm my Extron outputs 5v/500mA on Pin 9; else I'll need to cannibalise a cell phone charger or something.
Once again, you have my thanks (and sorry that you needed to keep spoonfeeding me answers).
![PS1 Intro.mp4_snapshot_00.05_[2015.11.09_22.31.10].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/M6KChYh.jpg "PS1 Intro.mp4_snapshot_00.05_[2015.11.09_22.31.10].jpg")
>>2786290
Realistic STA-2380 powering a pair of Klipsch KG4s
https://a.pomf.cat/nmaytq.mp4
The built in speaker on the PVMs aren't terrible, and are what I use in my attic setup currently(when the Megaview isn't in use). Megaview has decent speakers, as well as a built in 5W amplifer for external speakers; Haven't actually had a chance use said amp though.
>>2786340
Seconding the Lepai, but I'd like to add that it's really only a good option if you only need ~6W per channel, as anymore tends to get distortion. Efficient speakers are definitely useful in this situation.
I'm thinking about picking up a crt, I can't connect my n64 to my current TV.
>>2787123
Good to know.
Any reason in particular you posted this here? I don't see you looking for advice.
>>2787069
My PVM-20L5 and PVM-1944Q speakers are horrible. No highs and no lows. IDK about yours.
Here are my speakers.
>>2786765
so why exactly are you using a scaler on a CRT? I assume CRT because this is after all a CRT thread.
Sup so I finally got to the service menu on my 14m2u but now I need to know which setting can rotate the screen. It's slanted off to the bottom left. Anybody have suggestions? I don't want to go through over 100 options
>>2787190
find the service manual and look for rotation settings in it. The manual should explain it.
>>2787192
I've been looking for the service manual but can't find it I just end up finding shitty manuals that are 50 pages long because they're in different languages
>>2787192
>>2787190
Found the 20M2 manual which should be similar, and it looks like it'll probably be under NOR DEF or OTHER.
If not, you'll need to crack it open if it really bothers you that much.
Maybe the TV came from a the other hemisphere. That can cause rotation problems due to the earth's magnetic field.
>>2787196
The service manual is 92 pages long and covers multiple monitor models, including yours.
http://neohyphengeo.com/PVM20M2_SM_SONY_EN.pdf
>>2787180
>No highs and no lows.
Did you forget the rest of the line, anon? Let me help ya
>Must be Bose.
:^)
>>2787206
Thanks, I think the only way to rotate it is by poppin it open. The service manual has a whole section for "deflection yoke neck rotation adjustment" so I guess I'm fucked with this slanted image forever
>>2787217
I thought it might be bose at first.
Turns out it's Sony.
>>2787232
How bad is it? show a picture.
>>2787235
>Highs tinny, lows phony.
>Turns out it's Sony.
>>2787242
the highs aren't even tinny. The highs don't exist.
>>2787243
I guess we could take it back to basics then.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGeYt8ONxxA
>>2787236
You asked for it
![Electric Soldier Porygon[I'm not really sure why I did this].webm](https://i.imgur.com/lI715cy.jpg "Electric Soldier Porygon[I'm not really sure why I did this].webm")
>>2787275
10/10
>>2785690
Sorry I was away. I literally just did trial and error before soldering. Anyway that thing is pretty damn cool for the $18USD it costs. n64 emu looks great and I can barely wait to try playstation. I sit down to try games with the intent of just to test and end up playing a bunch.
>>2787337
The colours on the connector that came with mine didn't match the channels so it was confusing. Blue was red, white was blue etc.
>>2786765
Would love to hear how this goes. I normally use a similar circuit to viletim's, just merged lines, an 820R resistor then a 220uF cap. With VGA that gives almost no DC offset and a max current of well under 1mA.
>>2787320
MY EPILEPSY!
>>2787341
if someone wants to do it way more easily than I did
>>2786290
No PVM here unfortunately, but if I did, I'd use my Technics SA R230 with a pair of SB LX70s through the audio out just as I do with my consumer trinitron.
Unless PVMs dont have RCA audio out, that would totally suck.
>>2787320
Nice, you've also got that episode. Too bad my camera can't sync to a CRT properly and is also kinda crappy for video.
Ah well. 480i first. 480p next.
ffmpeg's libvpx encoder is slow as fuck.
(From PVM-20L5)
>>2787275
upside-down? nasty. I recommend just turning the TV upside down in that case.
If that's not supposed to be flipped, do it right next time.
On another note, why the fuck doesn't 4chan support VP9? It's higher quality at a lower size.
>>2787417
480p now.
That's much nicer.
>>2787417
>you've also got that episodeIt's a youtube video, thus the absolutely wonderful macroblocking. Having to slam the bitrate down so much doesn't help matters. https://a.pomf.cat/xaasye.mp4
Have any control over the camera's shutter speed? If so, 1/30 should hypothetically be relatively decent for 480i; 1/60 seems to cause really odd field jittering for me.
>why the fuck doesn't 4chan support VP9?
Because mootles is a weenie; It'd be nice to see that and the exif scrubber getting toned down by Hiro.
Also raising the webm filesize to at least match the image file limit. Getting stuff to come out decent inside of 4MB is doable; 3MB is just a pain.
>>2787441
Ah.
I got my version straight from an original (generation 1) VHS transfer. No youtube compression in my copy. Transferred it to DVD.
ffmpeg managed to do a good job on mine but I had to specify qmin 10 and qmax 60 for vp8 to look somewhat good.
>>2787441
mootles is ded
and 4mb is available at /gif/ and /wsg/
and I believe ffmpeg vp9 is still shit ATM
>>2787441
Oh, and no, I can't set shutter speed while taking video. Only for still photos.
It sucks.
Still, my webm's look approximately like my sources do. Maybe slightly worse. Not too bad though.
>>2787475
my VP9's from ffmpeg looked better and were about 250KiB smaller.
>>2787475
I'm aware, I'm just stating it would be nice for it be made site-wide by hiro.
Not even arguing for audio at this point, just an increase in filesize.
>>2787185
It's primarily to downscale 480i stuff with linedoubling (arcade ports for the most part; fighters, CAVE shmups, etc.), but also to experiment with scanlines on true-480p content.
>>2787348
It'll probably be a month or two before I can get everything together but when it's finished I'll definitely post back with results.
>>2787554
but why are you fucking with a video signal when it's already intended for a CRT?
>>2787562
(by which I mean, was it not already good enough the way the developers intended?)
>>2787395
I want a front loading turntable or a turntable/cassette combo any good ones you messed with?
>>2787569
those are both horrible ideas
>front loading vinyl
be ready for mechanical failures that destroy records.
>combos
almost never as nice quality-wise as stand-alone pieces.
>>2787395
PVMs don't have audio out in the usual sense. They have audio passthrough if you're chaining, but it's mono only (at least in all PVMs I've seen). What you end up doing is simply not connecting the sound from the console to the PVM at all simply connecting it directly to your sound system.
>>2787564
Pretty much this >>2787576
A lot of arcade ports released during the console dark ages run exclusively at 480i. A softmodded console can be forced to output 480p, and by downscaling back to 240p they're returned to their intended resolution.
Rather than "fucking with the signal" it's kind of like a miniature historical restoration.
>>2785854
Underappreciated post.
>>2787417
It wasn't supposed to come out upside down I'm just a faggot
>>2785854
>>2787746
Strange. I don't have any trouble with Dewgong. webm related.
>>2787569
Never messed with one and I've never heard good things either. Just get a regular turntable and separate tape deck
>>2787580
Aw man, that really messes it up, alot of the older hifi recievers don't have enough input since they were made to be used with a bunch of stereo components. Mine had like 5, Phono, CD, Tape and VCR 1/2. I use the VCR 1 for the audio coming out of my TV and control the volume just with the regular TV remote, it works well.
I've been thinking of just getting a consumer Trinitron with component input instead, maybe I should do that. But I want it to be a black curved screen one, and I've only seen one but it was too far. Maybe soon.
>>2787853
>Never messed with one and I've never heard good things either. Just get a regular turntable and separate tape deck
agreed. It's like he's deliberately looking for the worst possible hardware.
Look for a PVM. Check with local station engineers to see if they're getting rid of any CRT's soon. They might not know the model numbers off the top of their heads, but odds are you'll get a PVM. If not, it'll be another nice quality studio monitor CRT, if they still have them at all. I love my Panasonic monitor and my 20L5 for different reasons but both are awesome and were free.
>>2787875
Well of course I'd love a PVM, but if they dont have an rca out like the consumer ones then it's going to be a problem, so the scart to component route might have to be for me. Or I could just S-video, not really worry about it and keep using my 32 inch one
>>2787759
>>2787275
Fixed it.
Can't really see the bezel of the TV to check how rotated it is, but I tried my best by messing with the black levels in GIMP and drew what I think the outline might be. Is this about right?
(a better pic would be great. Spoilered because not really retro. Awesome game though.)
>>2787849
why did i watch that whole thing?
>>2787894
and without outline
>>2787897
because it's about 43 seconds and everyone loves the old Pokemon games (post-gen 2 comparatively sucks, especially gen 5+, though).
>>2787894
I got you nig. Will post soon
My espeon has at least 2 15 DV's.
HP = 15
Attack = 5-14 (unknown)
Defense = 10-15 (unknown)
Speed = 5-14 (unknown)
Special Attack = 15
Special Defense = 15
The special DV covers both special attack and special defense, but thankfully that's exactly what Espeon needs.
...I love Espeon. It's my favorite, along with Dragonite.
>>2787894
Here it is, haven't cleaned the smudgy screen yet and no thats not dust its just some roach poison.
>>2787910
>>2787962
I had a retarded friend who was too daunted by the challenge of pokemon when we were younger. His first pokemon game was gen 3 and he got everything up till platinum or whatever until he realized he was making a mistake.
He was shocked when he found out I had only played the first two gens for the last 10+ years. Although why would I play any other pokemon really
>>2787962
Umbreon looks cool (and I have a second eevee I'm friending up for evolution), but espeon is more powerful in battles from my experience.
>>2787964
Ah, I see the rotation now.
One thing you could do if you can't find rotation controls anywhere and (understandably) don't want to mess with the deflection yoke would be to decrease the V.SIZE control and H.SIZE to maintain the aspect ratio. That way you could get the entire picture on the screen, at the very least.
>>2788014
Yup I adjusted the Vsize Hsize and a number of other options so that I could the entire picture within the screen.
What you see right now is infinitely better than how it was setup when I got it. I spent maybe an hour adjusting settings to make sure that I could fit the most image on screen without losing anything
>>2788039
alright, sounds good.
I'd still work on the deflection yoke itself if you want it truly fixed, but I understand why you wouldn't want to.
another 20L5 pic
>>2788087
Way too frightened to start messing with that. I've heard too many tales of people messing up their monitor when trying to adjust it.
Plus the rotation isn't that bad r-right?
>>2788090
Damn, dude.
Shit's CRISP!
>>2788147
I never melee so clear until I got my pvm. Then I noticed the rotation problem and it threw everything off.
I was always into melee but only in the last year did I start acquiring crt's and finally a pvm
>>2788147
Yours looks a bit slanted as well. Bottom right
are you all playing some modded version? what's that "20xx" bullshit?
I was into melee back when it was new and people still used CRT's. Never got rid of mine.
>>2788153
Glad you think it's crisp. I spent about two days trying to get it juuust right after taking it apart and fixing my rotation and convergence problems.
>>2788198
Yes it's a mod. 20xx is life.
I kick myself for getting rid of my 32inch wega only because now I have a 27 inch. There's just no way you could actually store it for that long.
>>2788209
so why didn't you just keep using the wega?
Also, why is 20xx so good?
>>2787554
>that wiring
What the fuck man.
About the only thing you got right was the RGB and RGB ground pins.
>>2788267
I got rid of the wega sometime around 06 when I upgraded to my sharp aquos. Back then I was a wee lad and knew nothing of the benefits of a CRT for melee.
20xx is basically just a training pack for melee. It has cool features like highlighting if you properly(or fail to) L-cancel. It has features which allow you to see your hitboxes, you can program the comp to do specific things, it skips the intro to the game, you can enter widescreen mode, you can disable certain things on stages(shy guys, transformations) there's more but I'm blanking
>>2788267
http://www.20xx.me/
Hacked to get replays that are better than Smash 4, lol Nintendo.
Also cool shit like blink-on-missed-L-Cancel, etc., for training.
rgb modded pc engine duo r on sony pvm 1954q
What's the RGB situation for the original xbox? Wondering if I can get 480p RGB (sync on green) out of it.
>>2788602
From what little ive read you need to mod the TSOP or buy a modchip, and put a custom BIOS on it in order to output normally unsupported video types. Better off finding a component capable HDCRT
>>2788602
Also the xbox could output up to 1080i i believe for some games. A lot had 720p support so RGsB would be wasted as it maxes at 480p while component can handle all the necessary resolutions.
>>2788780
Fuck off if hes hooking it up to a CRT its relevant enough.
Time to start considering DC/PS2/GCN/XBOX retro, bros.
>>2788602
Which CRT has 480p RGB that wouldn't also have 480p Component?
>>2788958
Various presentation monitors.
PC monitors
>>2788602
A little look around suggests there are VGA mods out there; Once you've got VGA, turning that into RGsB isn't terribly difficult or expensive.
>>2788956
DC "already is". I wouldn't mind some talk of the others, since you really can't talk about them on /v/ at this point, but I can only see PS2 discussion as drowning out literally everything else should it be allowed.
>>2788956
Agreed. At the very least GBA and all pre-DS/PSP handhelds.
Too bad this isn't a meta thread and we don't make the rules in here, you'll just have to try to stick to what we've got in the meantime.
>>2788987
if you mod it to VGA you might as well just keep it VGA and use a pc monitor no sense adding excess hardware. Just my opinion though.
>>2789098
for some reason my name got erased.... well this is me btw.
>>2788987
IIRC the XBOX does RGsB naturally and it's usually turning that into RGBHV that's the endeavour for folks that modify them.
>>2789102
Does it?
Ive never seen a cable made up for it that is RGsB.
>>2789103
FUCK is "Life" not "Liffe" POS 4chan pissing me off, sorry to go off topic and waste a post.
>>2789103
google "xbox sync on green" and you'll see for yourself in the results.
>>2789106
Anything Im finding seems to point to having to first softmod the xbox... I havent been able to find a single article stating the xbox natively supports an output of RGsB
>>2789132
Well, natively you can only get it do to component or RGBS (15 kHz) only, I think.
>>2789134
Thats what i thought. I know there are plenty of mods for xbox I'm looking into modding one of mine for vga output.
>>2789137
Then it seems like softmodding it will give you RGsB. Then you have to find some way to deal with sync on green by either using a monitor that supports it off the bat or building a circuit that splits it into RGBHV.
Some quick googling shows that you could potentially tap HV syncs off the XBOX board somehow, but that then involves hard-modding the XBOX of course.
>>2789143
yes so ive read, my plan was to hard mod vga outputs, but i may not need to if i can get ahold of a bvm d series monitor
Phonedork's recent video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXHQvJkfy8o ) got me in the mood to give "high angle, low DoF" a shot with the RX-100. While I'm sure I could get quite nice results with it if I felt like fiddling around with it, I ended up just going for head on with ever so slightly out of "perfect" focus to avoid moire.
Came out pretty decent, I think.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7jZsmVVSIQE
>>2788278
Better?
tfw cant get into menus on my trini because the universal remote doesnt work
i tried a few apps with the IR blaster hting on my phone but i cant do much other than change the volume.
i think i could bump up the sharpness a bit, does this look blurry ish to you?
>>2788412
hope that holds over the guy that requested it, as i haven't scheduled time to mod my duo r.
>>2789314
>sharpness
You do not want to have any artificial sharpness
How do you get a PC to recognize a PVM with a VGA -> BNC cable? I'm able to send it video, but it doesn't show up in device manager and I can't get CRU to see it.
>>2787320
Fuck. I remember downloading a low-quality capture of this off some tiny, Pokemon fan site on a 56k connection about 16 years ago. I remember my friends were afraid to watch it.
>>2788201
>You will never spot a /CRT/bro while he converges his 20L5.
Feel bad man.
>>2789605
I think that's about all you get
what video card?
You can set a custom TV in some of them
>>2789601
I feel my image could look a little better
>>2789605
You can't unless the video card outputs 15kHz or the PVM accepts 31kHz
I'm new to the CRT scene. I'm picking this up for free from a friend of mine and it has component in. My question is if a RGB scart to component adapter would work for my Jap Sega Saturn to get the best possible quality.
>>2788412
some more, this time from Y's
>>2788201
How easy is it to fix the rotation problem. You have to adjust the yoke correct?
>>2789314
get a universal remote. I've had luck with those.
(particularly sony branded universal remotes)
>>2790591
rotate the yoke to rotate the picture. Yeah, you have to rotate the yoke. Getting color purity is also tricky afterwards when you're fixing it back down. To rotate the yoke you also need to take off the metal band(s) clamping the back of the yoke to the tube neck. don't pull back on the yoke though or you'll mess up convergence and color purity. That's fixable but takes time. I took the yoke off entirely because I had to also remove a foreign object from inside the yoke itself, so I had to readjust for purity and convergence as well, but you'll have an easier time if you're just rotating. Don't pull off the rubber wedges if they're glued to the tube surface, btw.
>>2790254
If you can find one, yes.
>>2789952
Maybe it can look a little better but the 'sharpness' control is not the way to go.
![tumblr_nxovho5FCz1uk6bbao1_1280[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/QKSIfPY.jpg "tumblr_nxovho5FCz1uk6bbao1_1280[1].jpg")
how big are your crts guys? mine is 15 inches, comfy for playing at my desk
>>2790760
got a 13in and a 29in. the 29in is heavy as fuck and I almost kill myself lifting it.
>>2790769
i would love a bigger crt but i live in a tiny ass apartment and dont know where i'd put it
looking to get into crts, someone near me is selling this, is it a decent price, decent monitor? im planning on using mostly composite for now
I have 2 monitors, and nowhere to put the second. So I put it right next to the other.
Is there any use in having 2 monitors right next to each other? Because I can't figure out what to do with the second one.
>>2790774
8" is really fucking tiny. I wouldn't spend more than $20 on an 8" monitor
If you're just starting with CRTs, grab a trinitron TV while they're still cheap/free.
>>2790786
okay, i probably wont get it then, thanks for the heads up
>>2790774
not a decent price and also too small. A normal black sony trinitron tv will be fine for composite (some even have svideo) you dont need a pvm.
>>2790760
13
14(Pro)
17(PC)
17(PC ded)
19(PC)
20(Pro)
20(Pro)
24(ded?)
27(HD problematic)
30(HD)
32
37(Pro)
Inches for all of the above
If I ever get a chance to fully indulge and have everything setup as I'd like it, I'd like to use the 13 and 14in for a desk station, and have a nice couch/co-op station based around the 27 and 37 inchers.
>>2790774
Too small, too old, too expensive.
>>2790793
Photo was meant to be pointed towards >>2790782
I was going to say, If one of them has better audio than the other but a not as nice picture, you could chain them together and use one for video and one for audio.
Extremely inefficient, but it's something.
Makes for neat photos at the very least.
>>2790793
>Too small, too old, too expensive.
thank you, that is the info I needed
>>2790760
15" and 19" ViewSonic PC CRTs
20" Toshiba Multimedia Monitor
36" Sony KV-36HS500
>>2790802
that looks really good
>>2790689
You're a better man than I. I have a 20L5 that I got burned on about a year ago and haven't used for about 6 months because every time I turn it on I spend hours trying to fix its borderline unplayable geometry issues before I just realized I wasn't even playing the games and just gave up. I kind of want to get rid of it but I had such a hard time finding it and setting it up that it's more trouble than it's worth. Words can't express how envious I am.
>>2790782
Daisy chain them.
Also, System Link Double Dash / Halo.
>>2790760
8" Ikegami Pro Monitor (portable + testing)
14" Sony PVM 14M (sell soon?)
14" Sony PVM 14L5 w/ 480p
48" Sony modern tv
>>2790806
19"-22" PC monitors really were the pinnacle of CRT design
>>2790840
awesome thumbnail
the 36" 4:3 WEGA which is not nearly as good
>>2790826
>daisy chain them
If I have two 20" video monitors, could I do this for multiplayer Secret of Mana?
>>2790852
looks great to me
>>2790856
If one of them is a PVM, yes. All the inputs have "out" lines as well.
Non PVMs you'd need some kind of splitter I guess.
mascot
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-90s-Rare-Y2K-Sticker-Sheet-/252127289803?hash=item3ab3f521cb:g:xywAAOSw~bFWIF2U
>>2790852
Is that an HD CRT?
>>2790868
Answered my own question by googling the model number.
I hope you're not trying to put 240p games on that tv. They're gonna look like shit.
>>2790863
One of them is, so excellent. Thank you.
I'll order some BNC cables whenever I finally get around to sourcing a multitap.
>>2790868
>>2790878
yeah supposedly good for 1080i but I mostly use it for 480p stuff nowadays
worst part about it is the analog input lags like a motherfucker
the DVI input works great though
>>2790889
Now that I've got something with a manually adjustable shutter speed, I need to retest my HS420.
480p and 1080i stuff both look quite decent on it; I can imagine a larger model with decent geometry would be quite nice.
>>2790892
I have more
Here's an example that clearly shows 3 frames of lag between the lagless 1980s TV and the HS500
>>2790897
this one only seems to show 2 frames of lag
>>2790897
That actually sounds pretty close to what I had come to see with my old camera, I was just hoping to get a more accurate account.
Checking with 480i over component, splitting luma to the older TV gives the same result, usually 3 frames occasionally 2 frames of lag.
>>2790884
BVM > RCA adapters would be easier and cheaper (Radio Shack, Home Depot, etc), plus component cables from Goodwill for the RGB and sound lines.
>>2790905
It's shit
digital framebuffer, everything is resampled to 960i iirc
480p over component gives about 1 frame of lag
There is also a barely perceptible difference with the digital input, I used my PC outputting to both my Viewsonic VGA CRT and the Sony over DVI, but I haven't measured it.
>>2790910
I can't speak for your HS500, but my 420 seems to be outputting a pretty clean 480p image when it's being fed one.
>>2790856
What would be the benefit? So you won't have to crowd around the same screen?
>>2790914
sorry I meant all 15kHz sources
240p, 480i
the 480p is what I'm outputting to it right now with my PC, it's clean and stable and 60Hz
Can a PVM with RGB source *output* on the S-Video / Component line? That would be a perfect setup, 14" RGB when you want it but easy daisy-chain to a consumer Trinitron for multiplayer and etc.
>>2790915
Pretty much.
20" is actually quite small. 2 people around one that size is fine, but 3 is a bit much.
>>2790909
RCA>BNC adapters actually quite expensive in Australia.
http://www.jaycar.com.au/Sight-%26-Sound---Home/AV-Leads-%26-Adaptors/Video/BNC-Plug-to-RCA-Socket/p/PA3654
Since I'd need 8, that's about $30 before shipping, not including the cable (probably another $15, again sans shipping); altogether that's roughly the same as a BNC RGB cable.
>>2790923
Nope.
>>2790254
If it's an SDTV, you should be fine
>>2790760
TVs: 13, 20, 20, 27, 29, 30, 32, 34, 34, 35, 36, 36"
PVM on the desk: 13"
PC monitors: sorry man I ain't counting all that shit, but it's more than I have TVs (favorite is 22")
>>2790914
HS420 doesn't have native 480p regardless of your progressive/interlaced menu setting, none of the later HD Sonys do
>>2790760
>CRT sizes?
far left: toshiba 72a42 consumer TV (YPbPr 15khz inputs), 27"
middle top: Panasonic BT-H1390yn broadcast monitor, 14"
middle bottom: Sony PVM-20L5 broadcast monitor, 20"
far right: Apple IIe composite color monitor, 12"
>>2787882
>Well of course I'd love a PVM, but if they dont have an rca out like the consumer ones then it's going to be a problem, so the scart to component route might have to be for me. Or I could just S-video, not really worry about it and keep using my 32 inch one
BNC -> RCA adapters are magical beasts and cost absolutely nothing.
>>2790774
way too small for the price.
For $40-60, maybe. definitely closer to 40 than 60.
>>2790852
That looks suspiciously LCD like (or digitally scaled).
Wish I had a SNES flash cart, though. FFV is my favorite in the series.
>>2790840
That style of PC monitor is really, really dim. I'd claim you're wrong and trinitrons of similar size were better, having used both shadow masks and aperture grilles.
>>2790923
>>2790943
You could make/commission a custom cable that had both RGB and S-Video outputs, and have the RGB fed to the PVM and either loop the S-Video through and out to the consumer set or just run it directly.
The encoder for the console shouldn't have any problem at all with both being used at once.
Unrelated, but:I've actually been playing around with the idea of modding my stuff to use a single pinout based on a VGA connector. Have any and all video signal available on a single cable without any crossover between signals like SCART(S-Video/RGB conflict) and separate ground when at all possible. Audio would be run either over 2RCA or a standard 3.5mm headphone cable. Alternatively but less likely, use digital audio when possible.
All entirely theoretical, no idea how it would deal with interference.
>>2791002
I don't have anything that proves you wrong, but visually I can't see anything that would suggest it's running in an interlaced mode, where as it's plain as day when my HD Sanyo is displaying ED/HD signals.
>>2791005
Pretty sure that comment was directed at PC monitors of that size in general, and not one specific model or type.
I'd kill for a 19+'' PC Trinitron, but I like the way my 17'' looks, even if it refuses to turn on half the time.
>>2791002
Have you actually tried the HS420 yourself? I can tell very easily 240p/480i is upscaled on the set, but 480p definitely isn't.
http://imgur.com/a/51CNZ
480p with fake scanlines on KV-32HS420
>>2791012
Michael Moffitt (mikejmoffit.com) uses VGA-style HD15 D-sub connectors like that.
>>2791005
hey, at least I've got a NES everdrive that krikzz refuses to pull his head out of his ass to fix Fire Emblem on.
...Or Just Breed, which uses MMC5 but doesn't run at all, despite his claim of MMC5 support.
Seriously, there is not a single good NES flash cart. To anyone who suggests the PowerPak, tell me when it can play Lagrange Point. Because the EDN8 has the game working and expansion sound is coming. I trust in this because it's not Krikzz who's developing the mapper. I have no trust in Krikzz.
>>2791012
>You could make/commission a custom cable that had both RGB and S-Video outputs, and have the RGB fed to the PVM and either loop the S-Video through and out to the consumer set or just run it directly.
If he's going to spend money he could just buy a distribution amp and be ready for any source device
>I've actually been playing around with the idea of modding my stuff to use a single pinout based on a VGA connector. Have any and all video signal available on a single cable without any crossover between signals like SCART(S-Video/RGB conflict) and separate ground when at all possible. Audio would be run either over 2RCA or a standard 3.5mm headphone cable. Alternatively but less likely, use digital audio when possible.
>All entirely theoretical, no idea how it would deal with interference.
Lawrence Wright (neogeoman) did this years ago
>I don't have anything that proves you wrong, but visually I can't see anything that would suggest it's running in an interlaced mode, where as it's plain as day when my HD Sanyo is displaying ED/HD signals.
The only off-the-cuff test I can offer you is to change between 1080i and 480p resolutions on the fly. The TV might re-sync but the tube doesn't refocus (go by the sound and time needed), and the overlay doesn't change in appearance or resolution.
>>2791017
>Have you actually tried the HS420 yourself?
Yeah, owned one along with several of its contemporaries and immediate predecessors/successors.
>>2791018
MMC5 was never marked as fully suppported. Only partial support for CV3 since it uses like 1% of MMC5
>>2791024
Then that's one hell of a magic upscale. There's also the fact that 480p is progresive, while you're saying it would upscale it to 1080i or whatever. Whenever the set runs in 1080i the interlacing artifacts are very visible, but there's none in 480p. Can you explain this trickery?
>>2791024
>Lawrence Wright (neogeoman) did this years ago
Never said it was original or anything, was just clearing my mind a bit and giving a little outline of the way I was going to organize things; Specifically with the image.
>>2791026
>MMC5 was never marked as fully suppported. Only partial support for CV3 since it uses like 1% of MMC5
It is true that CV3 uses a very small amount of MMC5's capabilities. However, I will refer you to this chart which is proudly displayed on the store page for the EDN8.
http://krikzz.com/pub/support/everdrive-n8/mappers.png
Note that iNES mapper 5 is MMC5, and it is clearly green. Nowhere on the store page is there a disclaimer reading 'CV3 only'. So as this is on the store page, MMC5 is marked and marketed as supported.
(store page http://shop.krikzz.com/EverDrive-N8-NES-EDN8NES.htm )
In short, you're wrong.
>>2791027
Might have native 540p or 720p, but I doubt it. The Toshibas of the time did similar bullshit. But no, you're not getting 480p.
My Sonys are unplugged in the garage but I can dig one out and plug it in. The easiest to reach is an XS955 and I don't have any HSes any more, but I can take a look sometime.
>>2791031
No, I mean you can refer to how he did it if you're looking for guidance
IIRC he decapitated video cables for all his systems and made a universal extension cable connected to his video chain
>>2791034
540p isn't a standardized resolution/line count in NTSC countries. It could well work because I have made CRT computer monitors display for example 720x540, but it is not a standard so don't call it 540p. people say 1080p but they don't specify horizontal resolution, and if it followed the 480p standard 4:3 ratio it would be different than it is as 16:9 (the standard ratio for '1080p'). For the sake of clarity don't invent standards. Same for anyone who says they have a 1440p computer monitor.
>>2791037
>don't call it 540p
Toshiba did, it's in the OSD
I personally dgaf
>>2791034
They have different tubes though. According to wiki the 420 is only a hi-scan set, compared to the higher resolution super fine pitch models.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FD_Trinitron/WEGA
>>2791039
Yeah, I helped fix that article
>>2791034
So how is it really a problem if it looks good? I have a PC CRT to compare it to, and 640x480 on that looks close enough to 480p on the set.
>>2791041
>problem
That's your word, not mine
Anyway just saw that BazookaBen described this on shmups forum:
>Oh and just for the record, when you send a 480p image to a Sony HD CRT, you will in fact get a true 480p picture, it's not scaled to a different resolution. They do it by centering the 480p image inside of a 540p frame, then stretch the frame to eliminate underscan. So every pixel is represented accurately, just with some degree of input lag. If you have a PC, you can make a custom timing to create a 33.75hz 480p signal that will trick the TV into thinking it is 540p, and that way you'll have zero input lag. Good trick for older PC games and some Doujin shmups.
>>2791042
Interesting, though the component out from my video card can't be configured like that.
>>2791035
Alright, I get you now.
If I'm reading this right, he's the one in charge of gamesx? If so, I've seen his page on the DB9 setup and actually where I got the idea.
I just wanted to expand it to cover all possible video signals with audio taken out of the picture.
If I were to institute something like this, it'd an entirely custom cable, not something built of existing ones. I guess as it is now, it'd be more accurate to call it a breakout cable with the VGA connector on the console side and any number of BNC and DIN connectors on the other.
Any type of resistors or capacitors that would normally be inside the cable would be located inside the system like >>2782063 did.
>>2790774
IT's not an 8024 it's an 8042, and it's way overpriced. The other anon saying $20 max is too high IMHO. The 8045 is worth about $25 as it's higher line count makes the screen clearer. the lower line count of the 8042 isn't worth paying for.
Those people claiming 8" is too small are wrong. I use them for testing and emulating DS and other things, and they're fun.
>>2791056
Too small for the price, as you plainly agree with given your suggested price for a better model.
>>2791042
I don't think you can have zero input lag on these HD CRTs
even digital input has some lag (720x480 over DVI is unscaled)
>>2790774
get a bigger one for cheaper.
>>2791056
heh, I got my 14" PVM-14L4 for about $20, that's both high line count and bigger.
>>2790760
CRT Sizes
14' PVM 14M2U
20' PVM 20M4U
25' PVM 2530
27' Sony 27FS120
36' Sony 36FS120
40' Pioneer PDP v402 (2x Working, 1 broken for spare parts)
Does anyone have a better designation for the Pioneer. Technically it is a plasma, but its ~100lbs and is 4:3 so its "CRT-ish"
>>2791303
Oh and I would probably give someone a limp handjob if I could flip my 14 inch PVM and 20 inch PVM for a 800line 14 inch pvm.
The 20 is too big for my desk, and the 14 is only 600lines.
