Previous thread - >>2758694
This thread is for the spirited discussion of CRT displays - Televisions, monitors and projectors used for the playing of retro games!
>Try to keep it /vr/-related: Nothing past 5th gen(+Dreamcast). Slight OT might be okay if related to CRTs (E.G. 16:9 compatible models, flatscreens, etc.) Systems with backwards compatibility are also pretty safe territory, assuming you're focusing on the older games. PC CRTs are also a-ok.
>Produce OC! Get out your real cameras and take beautiful pictures of your CRTs displaying recognizable characters with the kind of beautiful accuracy that brings tears to the eyes of young and old alike! If you take 100 photos, at least one of them will turn out alright! (maybe)
>Try to be as detailed as possible when asking info on a specific model. As always, google is your friend, and we are your friends with benefits. Older archived threads aren't a bad place to look either.
>Share appreciation for others choice of technology and personal philosophy of gaming. As always show courtesy in your discussion and moderate yourselves first.
CRT Pastebin (WIP): http://pastebin.com/1Ri5TS3x
S-Video Pasta: http://pastebin.com/rH2h6C7W
Thread Survey: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1PhdXJYwA8xModrTV1Yt-i1tvNgwiagpeBx0m_xNIVtc/viewform?edit_requested=true&fbzx=9009823977812318933
please ignore the fake other CRT thread, it's full of trolls
First for unplugging your monitor when not using it.
My eyes hurt when using a my CRT for at least 2 minutes, even less. how can I stop this from happening?
I think its related to scanlines
>>2773717
this
my main reason is my 2 year old likes to hit buttons. a few seconds of him spamming my power button and bye bye crt.
>>2773730
Don't think it's the scanlines. Most likely the refresh rate.
>>2773743
I've got it on 60hz, can I push it up to 75hz with a 3840x480 res?
>>2773772
Oh I don't have much experience with those crazy resolutions. I just know I can't stand 60Hz on a PC monitor.
>>2773781
Look again. The OP picture of the other thread is of an LCD.
>>2773790
>>>/out/
>>2773797
I don't think /out/ is for outdated tech from the 2000s?
>>2773808
>talking shit on outdated tech on a retro board
>>2773815
>hurr go back to /v/!
Fuck off and keep your garbage to one thread.
>>2773825
Nearly every retro video game site and forum has CRT discussions. It is important to the hobby.
>>2773838
We've had this thread for years without problems from the mods and janitors. You're not gonna come in and change that.
and today the only thing that keeps me coming back to /vr/ died
rip /crt/
>>2773838
/g/ is even more crt nazi than you
>>2773850
WHO
CU
CK
HERE
>>2773730
That is bound to happen if one is forcing himself to stare on a fucking bright screen.
Just turn on some goddamn lamps in your room and reduce brightness and contrast that black is not too dark and that white doesn't blind you, that white simply looks white to you.
Maybe I'm completely wrong with the assumption that you're using a too bright CRT in a too dark room or my eyes are simply superior to most other people. Who knows.
>>2773772
If you're going to emulate 60hz games then it will be not a good idea, unless you can push 120hz.
>>2773782
>I just know I can't stand 60Hz on a PC monitor.
This is really cute.
I use 50hz all the damn time, even with fucking interlacing and I use that on a 15khz CRT to read fucking text.
I really starting to think that my eyes are better than average or that everyone else is using his CRT in a darkroom.
>>2773838
>wild SHITPOSTER used CAPSLOCK
>It's not very effective
>>2773842
This.
The only time when the mods deleted a thread was because everyone started to discuss using CRTs to watch anime.
>>2773838
Welcome to /vr/. Since the birth of this board there were crt threads. Also writing in caps makes you look like a angry 14y old. If you don`t like it, there are other boards to discuss videogames and to be a huge faggot.
>>2773861
The anime threads were the best desu senpai
>>2773782
PC monitors may have different phosphors that go dark faster. Better suited for higher refresh rates.
TV Screens/TV Monitors generally have more persistence.
Should I buy a JVC PVM with these inputs if the only retro consoles I have are PS1 and Super Famicom? I know nothing about this stuff but it's only $40 so I figured I might as well go for it if the inputs are good for those consoles.
>>2773898
I, personally, wouldn't pay that much for a monitor that only does composite at best.
I probably paid less for my two RGB-capable 14" Sony PVMs together.
>JVC PVM
Are they also called PVMs?
The only JVC monitors I'm aware of are the DT-V, which I've been stalking on eBay since they have multiformat (240p/480i and 480p to 1080p) but they just go for way too much.
>>2773908
I'm not sure if it's called a PVM or not, but the model number is TM-A101GU and it says it's from a TV station so I just assumed.
I'll hold off then, I don't really play games enough anymore to warrant getting a new CRT when I still have a working 10" Sylvania.
>>2773923
>10"
What can you even use that for?
>>2773923
Be on the lookout for other monitors, though. As long as it isn't some awesome multiformat goodness (My dream CRT is one of those 16:9 32" PVMs with multiformat. I would be able to ditch the flatscreen.), you should be able to find something that also does RGB for about that much. Or at least I was able to.
The shitstorm in the previous thread inspired me to make something.Enjoy, /crt/.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KjJ8irRPdqk
Im asking people who have BVM or PVM monitors where they picked theres up.? I already own a BVM-20F1U i got of ebay.
But im looking to purchase a BVM-D32E1U and can only find 2 from the same seller on ebay and he's being a PITA about shipping because he is located out of Cali and im on the east coast. Any help would be appreciated thanks!!
>>2773825
What is your fucking damage bro?
PVMs are pure autism.
Have some 480i Hiryu.
>>2774478
It's like old hifi gear, and it's called a hobby. But sure, autism, why not.
What experience do you have with PVMs, anon, out of interest?
Lg 21FD1AL
>>2774256
Whoops the model number is
BVM-D32E1WU
my mistake
What sort of breakout would I need in order to use a Playstation RGB/SCART cable (sync-on-luma) with a BVM or PVM?
Apparently luma-sync gives the best video picture, but broadcast monitors require external sync and all the breakout cables I seen so far are wired for composite-sync.
>>2774665
Breakout cable wont effect the sync.
No idea if a BVM or PVM will work with a PS1 with sync on luma.
>>2774665
You have to use a scart to RGBs. The composite sync(csync) via RGBs is better than luma sync as it a dedicated sync output for just h/v sync, while luma is brightness info and sync. Luma is a close 2nd but RGBs csync is better.
>>2774687
There's no best sync.
PS1 has issues with other syncs.
>>2774609
Careful, from what I've seen, the D32s have real troubles with color purity.
>>2774665
>and all the breakout cables I seen so far are wired for composite-sync.
If a SCART cable is wired for sync-on-luma, that just means that the pin that would usually carry either Cvid or Csync is carrying luma instead. Any regular SCART to RGBS breakout cable will work correctly.
>>2774668
If the monitor would work with composite video sync without troubles, there will be no problem with luma sync. If it requires "raw/clean" composite sync, then you'd need to look into getting a sync stripper, as luma will cause the same incompatibility as normal video.
>>2774691
PS1 doesn't have any problems with composite video for sync; The reason you only see composite video for sync or luma sync cables is because Sony's Multiout doesn't actually have dedicated csync available.
>>2774702
Was my understanding that the PS1 csync was very weak when you get it off the chip.
I use luma so.
>>2774707
And the composite video as sync causes weird patterns on screen.
Hey crt bros. When referring to the 4:3 aspect ratio in speech, would you say "four-to-three" or "four-by-three" aspect ratio?
>>2774668
>No idea if a BVM or PVM will work with a PS1 with sync on luma.
I assumed it would but I could be wrong.
>>2774687
As >>2774691 said, the original Playstation has issues if used with composite sync (visual patterns/artifacting being some). PS1 was apparently built with RGsB in mind which may have something to do with it.
>>2774702
Excellent. Thank you. If I might ask one more thing though:
Will a PVM/BVM definitely accept luma sync as external-sync, or should I get a cable wired with a sync stripper just to be on the safe side?
>>2774718
America uses by.
>Will a PVM/BVM definitely accept luma sync as external-sync, or should I get a cable wired with a sync stripper just to be on the safe side?
Can try luma as sync with a sync stripper; If luma doesn't work
>>2774707
I'm pretty sure that pulling csync directly without some sort of buffering is going to cause problems, so that's really not a Sony specific problem. Again, since you need to open the system up to even gain access to it, it's really not a very common option to go for.
As for composite, I personally haven't notice any quality differences between using cvid or luma. Not to say there isn't one, but it's not something I've run into.
Really, the only system that has any sizable problem with using cvid for sync is the Genesis, and even that varies by board revision.
>>2774718
Would probably depend on where you're from and language of choice, but I've always used by. Same idea as lumber dimensions.
Two by Four
Four by Three
X by Y
>>2774719
>PS1 was apparently built with RGsB in mind which may have something to do with it.
>Gs
You're not going to see any type of sync being fed along the Green line of a PS1.
A PS2 or PS3, sure (for both component and progressive scan RGB), but not the first.
>>2774725
>cvid for sync
I'll tell you the worst system for cvid for sync in my experience:
Atari STFM (the kind that has RF out and outputs composite, not csync)
The composite signal is so poor quality the screen will start scrolling if the picture gets too bright. Looking at the composite signal its probably worse than Mega Drive/Genesis which is really a feat because my Atari ST is PAL.
I should mod the system for csync one of these days.
>csync without any buffering
What kind of problems can this give? My current RGB mod for my PCE has no buffering on the csync. It tends to work just fine picture-wise with everything I've plugged it into, but is there some other reason I should maybe throw in a cap there (or maybe even an amp?).
>>2774256
>>2774609
>>2774702
That's my dream CRT, the one that would obviate the need for a flat screen. It's a shame I probably won't ever be able to find one locally/or even on my continent, though (yuropoor). I've heard that shipping those things across the atlantic will kill them (plus they're really expensive) so I'd rather find it at least within Yurop (except UK, because fuck the Royal Mail.)
Interesting to hear it might have color problems, though. How bad is it if you're not using it as a reference monitor?
>>2774756
If the PCE is fine with it, just go for it I guess.
I'm speaking mainly in hypotheticals here, but for systems that have csync offered outright, it's rarely if even a direct connection to the IC generating it, right?
Perhaps buffering is the wrong term, but that's primarily all I was trying to say. I guess I just can't words right now.
>>2774762
It doesn't have it offered outright though, unless you consider it being on the EXT connector being outright. By default the PCE (white one) is RF only, heh.
I have buffered the audio channels that I took from inside the PCE, btw. I rarely use those, though, because they are poorly amped and the sound that comes out of the interface unit, when it's plugged into that, sounds much better + has the CD audio.
>>2774718
I just say
>Four Three
>Sixteen Nine
because context makes it obvious. Probably not correct, but whatever.
>>2774767
This, I've never heard it any other way.
>>2774765
>EXT connector being outright.
I feel like that would fit.
When I say without any buffering, I mean more along the lines of trying to use the csync pin of a Mega Drive's VDP directly for sync. It's just not going to work properly without extra components.
>>2774702
I have the 20f1u for older stuff. I just want the d32 for its size, higher res, and widescreen.
>>2774761
Yeah a 220lb beast isnt cheap to ship even just across the US.
For the person asking about PS1 sync here is a cable you can buy that allows you to choose which sync you want to use. Composite, luma, or Csync
https://www.retrogamingcables.co.uk/sony-playstation-1-2-ps1-ps2-rgb-scart-cable-lead
>>2774826
That understandable, but still, that specific model seems to get purity issues in the corners very often.
Its little brother, the D24 doesn't seem to have said problems; It also doesn't have the size, but the resolution and screen format are the same.
>>2774761
Nabbed from ebay. Convergence in the corners just goes to shit for whatever reason.
>>2774835
My worry there was the 24" is fine in 16:9 but it lacks the size factor 4:3 which would bother me because id be connecting my ps2, xbox, and gamecube to it and not all games support 16:9 if it was always widescreen i would have bought the 24" already.
Much cheaper to ship because its light enough to be under the freight weight limit.
But the one 32" on ebay has that exact same issue, so maybe ill look into buying a D24 for widescreen and the D20 for 4:3 and just daisy chain the monitors together.
>>2774835
question you might be able to answer whats the difference between the D24 and the A24
or the WU vs WE vs WA these i believe are just region specifiers
but the D vs A idk what those are for
>>2774826
I'm that dude;
I've actually already sourced a PlayStation SCART cable with luma sync. What I need now is a breakout cable with BNC connectors.
The site you listed has them but the question remains whether a BVM will take raw luma as a sync signal. I'm contemplating getting the version with a sync stripper just in case but I dunno.
>>2774842
D24 would actually have nearly the same screen size for 4:3 content as any 20'' PVM/BVM. There is a slight difference(can't remember the exact numbers) but it's a very small one; Something like 100% vs 104%, with the D24 being the 20.
Daisy chaining monitors together is still fun though, assuming you've got the right input cards.
>>2774858
U,E,A, and J are all just region specifiers, and should be relatively self explanatory.
D and A are different series of monitors, with A being newer, if I'm remembering correctly. I've also heard about them(the A series) having some problems with certain systems, with the Neogeo being the one that comes to mind. Input cards are not compatible between the two and I believe that the As are more expensive in that regard as well.
>>2774890
You dont need the sync i have the sync on luma, which i thought was csync, ps1 cable had to double check. My scart to BNC is this cable and it works.
https://www.retrogamingcables.co.uk/sony-pvm-scart-converter-bnc
>>2774918
So it'll take raw luma as sync?
Cool. I'll go ahead and order that one then.
Thanks to everyone who offered advice.
>>2774910
thank you for your information
yeah the 20" has a 19" diagonal while the 24"
is only 17 7/8" but that extra inch means alot on a smaller screen haha but i have a 21" pc monitor i might use for 4:3 anyway. I have a component to VGA convertor on the way. It a KDS vs-21e its fancy as hell for a pc monitor and i got it for free so im happy.
also have a viewsonic a90 but it doesnt power on something wrong with the power unit
>>2774920
According to the site the cable can come with a sync stripper for composite video sync, but it doesnt offer the option to choose, so idk if its in the cable already or not, but that cable is what i have and it works.
>>2774910
i may end up getting a 32" still only cause the 24" is just over the freight cutoff so shipping will be about the same for either monitor and why not go bigger at that point, if the 24" had been cheaper by a large extent id no doubt buy it. But we shall see.
>>2774923
>viewsonic a90
I have one as well, but it has some discoloration on the top; I think it may be actual damage to the shadow mask to be entirely honest. Looks nice besides that though.
>component to VGA convertor
If you wouldn't mind me asking, which converter? I've been tossing around the idea of getting one to use primarily with my GC on the Megaview (rather than modifying the cable). Being able to use other progressive component consoles with PC monitors would be nice as well.
>>2774926
It's listed as a separate item: https://www.retrogamingcables.co.uk/female-rgb-break-out-scart-to-4-x-bnc--2-x-rca-for-sony-pvm-monitors
And for a decent amount more money.
>>2774935
That's entirely up to you, and I hope you manage to find a good one. I was just trying to let you know that the larger set has problems(in general, not just one specific monitor)
>>2774940
im just trying the Monoprice one, idk how the quality is, but its priced around the same as others so im gonna try it. I should have it by the end of the week I can let you know then how it works.
>>2774920
HEY YOU MAN DONT BUY THAT CABLE JUST YET NOW THAT >>2774940 showed me that other listing I may have purchased the cable with the sync stripper im not sure mine no longer has the sticker on it like my others... let me see if i can find my receipt for it and i can then tell you exactly which one i bought.
>>2774943
okay double checked my scart to bnc, took the scart end apart i dont believe i have a sync stripper, cause its just wires in there nothing else but idk what exactly the sync stripper would look like if its a circuitboard ordeal or what.
>>2774956
Something similar to this; Not exactly, but close. It'd likely be a little triangular pcb sitting inside the SCART hood.
https://a.pomf.cat/lkolxg.jpgIs anyone else having trouble getting images to upload properly? I've tried selecting this image and slightly edited versions of it repeatedly and it just won't take it.
>>2774965
ok thats what i thought yeah i dont have any circuit board in my cable so its just a passive connector soo >>2774920 you dont need a sync stripper.
>>2774965
Do you have 4chan pass or do you just deal with the bs picture captchas?
ALso idk about pics i havent tried uploading one but ill try, heres part of my game collection just happened to be the first pic i saw.
>>2774971
It won't even let them get picked up by the post box. Captcha is working absolutely fine.
I'm thinking it might just be chrome taking a shit.
>>2774982
haha i need to actually start playing my games instead of just buying more, but i never have time its either work,sleep,or adult responsibilites getting in the way.
>>2774981
I was just asking about the captchas because idk if its worth the $20 for the 4chanpass or not, cause they are annoying but i really dont post much not enough to warrant $20 IMO.
>>2774835
Pictures like that killed the D32 dream for me long ago. I want to believe.
>>2774835
Ah. I can definitely see shipping it causing or making what's there even worse with that too...
Well it is but a dream. Would be neat to find a multiformat monitor at all, though. I saw a 17" JVC DT-V in Spain go for 400 euro on eBay... Now I can only find the same model for more than a thousand euro in germany. and I thought 400 was too much...
I mean my current monitors (PVM-14L4 and PVM-14L2) I got locally for about $20 each.
I wish there was some way to version bump the 14L4 into a L5. The tube is the same...
>>2773825
>>2774624
Come on now. I'm a large proponent of emulation and one of the main haters of CRTs on this board. I seriously think the picture they produce is hideous, distorts the game and I honestly have a very hard time understanding why anyone wants to look at them in 2015.
But all that said, there's nothing at all wrong with a thread about them here. Especially when the bulk of the discussions is on using them with video games of the same era.
Just because you don't like something, doesn't mean you should troll and shitpost. All that does is make the overall environment around here worse and encourage CRT fans to in turn be dicks about LCDs and emulators. We all have to work together to make this place better, shitposting either way does the opposite.
>>2775192
>I honestly have a very hard time understanding why anyone wants to look at them in 2015
CRT is the lowerest latency display. CRT eliminates sample-and-hold blur without adding latency like simple strobed backlights do (CRT is equivalent to an ideal scanning backlight).
Sample-and-hold LCD (by far the most common type) is far more ugly than even the worst CRT.
>>2775212
We all have our opinions, that's my point. I don't think LCDs are perfect, but I think just the look of a CRT screen is so ugly that it by far compensates. I know you disagree fundamentally and probably like the light they give off, which is fine. But not everyone feels that way.
>>2775192
>Especially when the bulk of the discussions is on using them with video games of the same era.
90% of the CRTs here are from 2000 and later.
>Just because you don't like something
I don't hate CRTs. My point is that LCDs get post deleted on /vr/ but CRTs don't.
>>2775212
>CRT eliminates sample-and-hold blur without adding latency
Do we need to start this again? Because you're still wrong about this.
>>2775459
>Do we need to start this again? Because you're still wrong about this.
Believing in time travel still does not make it real.
I picked up a 19 inch sony pvm from TSN. Never used - $40
being in buttfuck nowhere and finding this thing so cheap was a godsend. Waiting on my RBG cables but I think it still looks good on dirty composite. I have this board to thank for helping me find it. thanks guys.
>>2775487
>telling people on 4chan where to post
Because that always worked so well in the past.
>>2775523
A non-retro TV playing a non-retro game. How is this appropriate for this board again?
>>2775569
better ban me then, off to the retron thread are we then?
>>2775574
Honestly I'd prefer if we focused on talking about actual games. Like the board is supposed to be about.
>>2775586
>monitor thread
>can we plz talk games
you reap what you sow faget
>>2775589
Are you implying I made the thread? All my threads are of games.
>>2775482
You need help with that denial.
What other appliances around a monitor can excite the phosphors? I've seen this from time to time on one of my PVMs and it just happened on my Vectrex. Turned out the lights and realized it was glowing like what usually happens after using it for a bit. This is great but I haven't even turned the thing on in at least a week. Something around it must be causing this but the question is what.
>>2776250
The only external entity I'm aware of that would affect phosphor deflection is a magnetic field. Barring random noise from EMI on a signal, of course.
Unfortunately, I don't know much about how Vector displays first so you'd probably need to look up an arcade repair guide/servicing manual on the subject to see causes for certain behaviors on a monitor.
>>2776250
My CRTs always glow faintly when I turn off the lights.
>>2776265
He's not talking about phosphor deflection though, he's talking about phosphor activation by external sources. Regarding which...
Regarding which...There's often a background glow to CRT screens due to ambient electric fields in the home. I remember similar from my childhood. I presume a strong enough external electric field would also make a difference.
Out of interest, when you turn the screens on, are they brighter than normal, or about the same?
>>2776334
Must be depending on where I have them setup because my primary setup doesn't do this as far as I know. My only concern is when this happens the phosphors are slowly aging while I'm not even using it.
I'll have to check to see if it is brighter next time I notice it happen.
Anybody have a good read that explains the more technical side of CRTs?
>>2776250
>What other appliances around a monitor can excite the phosphors?
Any light source of sufficient frequency. UV will definitely work, probably visible blue too. Works like glow-in-the-dark phosphors.
>>2775598
Go back to them then, faggot.
finally hooked up my d20f1u.parallel worlds link looks like such a faggot
>>2776793
Make me,kiddo.
>>2776809
>>2776813
>>2776810
If you're gonna stay, talk about scanlines and convergence like a fucking normal person.
>>2776815
>>2776817
i'm not sure if i'm weeb enough to play it, but i knew it was a good looking game so i grabbed a shot.
>>2776809
>>2776813
>>2776815
>>2776817
>>2776818
i think they came out pretty nice. i was just using my galaxy 6 edge, free hand.
any requests? i have pretty much every system and game.
Strider 2 doesn't come out the best in my photos for some reason. It's far, far superior in person.
>>2776839
>>2776816
They're both ugly as fuck and people who like them are more tied up in nostalgia for when they were children than the actual video game.
>>2776846
>PVMs
>nostalgia
Because we all had professional equipment when we were kids right?
>>2776836
Rondo of Blood.
So guys.
PVM-9044QM
Worth it for £35? I know it's small but I just want a small CRT for my desktop.
>>2776852
i still need to install the rgb amp into my duo r, but i'll grab some composite shots of it when i can.
>>2776864
Nice, appreciate it.
![DSC01506[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/1TxVIZV.jpg "DSC01506[1].jpg")
>>2776854
>S-video
>RGB/YPbPr
Yup, assuming you're going to be using it from less than 0.9144 meters away. Check for burn and be aware they're surprisingly deep, especially at that small size. Personally I'd only give about 18.42 euros for it but I already have a 13 and a 20
any safety tips or general tips for pvms? should I not be placing things on top of it i.e. systems and cartridges? i'm aware that even when unplugged it can hold vast amounts of voltage (enough to kill you). can't find any info elsewhere
>>2777007
Keep speakers away from them.
The magnets inside them can permanently affect the picture.
>>2777015
thanks homie
>>2773960
All Super Nintendos apart from the Jr output RGB natively, and even the Jr can be modded for RGB. In fact an RGB modded Jr gives the best output
>>2774665
It's different. All BVMs (as far as I'm aware) require clean sync (raw sync, composite sync, call it what you will). All PVMs however can use sync on composite or sync on luma (composite video/s-video for sync respectively). Honestly though I'm of the opinion that if you have a bit more money to spend, get csync cables. They're much more versatile and will allow you to do stuff like daisy chaining PVMs and using Extron switches and interfaces.
The PS2 doesn't output clean sync natively so you'll need to get a sync stripped either built into the head of the SCART cable or use a breakout cable with one built in. Or you could use something like the sync strike in line.
>>2774718
Four three
>>2775161
In theory you could but it would require you to replace all the internal boards haha. Not worth it.
I have an L5 (the Australian equivalent, D20L5A) and honestly the 480p function is hardly ever used. Most of the time its for component from the Gamecube but even then, not all that often. I'd just use a computer monitor and a transcoder or an LCD for 480p content.
>>2775523
If you think it looks good on composite, wait till you try RGB. It's gonna blow your mind.
>>2775598
Then why the fuck are you here?
>>2776890
that back panel is cute
So I checked the sticky but I didn't see anything about Sharp crts. I'm looking into buying this one, anyone know if it's good? The reviews I've seen for it are pretty mixed, and everyone seems to say either it's shit or it's perfect.
This is the specific model: http://www.cnet.com/products/sharp-27u-f810-27-crt-tv/specs/
>>2777536
As long as it's standard definition and has component input, it's good enough to check out. It really depends on what it looks like in person.
>>2777569
>If its an EDTV or HDTV crt even better.
If it's an HD crt, it's worse.
>>2777571
Depending on what youre using it for. Anything 480i and lower yes a non hdcrt is prefered
EDTV are nice cause they support up to 480p i believe
>>2777571
HDTV crts are nice for xbox,ps2,gamecube cause they support 480p,720p and 16:9
>>2777536
And according to my quick research this is a flat screen crt but cant get anymore info on whether it supports a max 480i or a higher resolution the only manuals that pop up are service manuals which are of no use to me
>>2777589
Yeah but just because we frequent /vr/ doesn't mean we don't like playing non /vr/ stuff too. I love my PS2, Gamecube and original xbox.
>>2777589
Also if i may add what system would that be? Im drawing a blank atm.
>>2777684
Dreamcast does 480p
I just purchased a sony pvm20m2u and it has red green and blue lines on the top of the screen. Source was a (wii mini) composite
>>2777694
Ahh forgot about that bad boy that system was ahead of its time if you ask me. Trying to collect one of each of the colored controllers
>>2777695
My PVM 14M4A does that too. turn off underscan an 16:9 and it'll go away. If it's still noticeable go into the service menu and tweak picture adjustment.
what do
It's connected to channel A because YpPbPr complains about no sync. vertical adjust doesn't let me change it very far. My mad scientist scheme to connect stuff with RGB + sync isn't ready
>>2777757
YPbPr carries sync on the green signal. When you use YPbPr you want to turn external sync off. RGBs carries sync externally (though composite sync, composite video sync or luma sync), so when you use RGB you want to turn external sync on. So make sure that external sync isn't on if you wanna test with component.
Also just double check that somewhere on the setting there's not a switch to change from RGB to Component, since often they use the same line. On my PVM14M4A it's external (there's a button that you press that will switch from RGB and YPbPr), but on my D20L5A it's internal (i.e. you have to go within the system menus to change it).
>>2777774
I got YPbPr to work and I can see that it looks better but the screen is still split in that weird way
>>2777757
>Watching anime on a CRT
Why did this never occur to me?
Is there some kind of modern HDD video player that can output 480i?
>>2777805
Yeah the one I'm using was cheap as hell and and has auto resolution
for someone that has a modern fat tv. and a flat screen tv
how in the living dead pixels have you managed to get such clean. crisps pixels?
>>2777819
RGB connection.
>>2777819
PVM Son
>>2777815
Most DVD plays should output at 480i. Just have to find the adjustment in the menu
>>2777819
1) RGB + PVM/BVM/Broadcast monitor
2) XRGB-Mini Framemeister
3) Emulation and you've been duped
>>2777757
I made it worse somehow
>>2777805
>Is there some kind of modern HDD video player that can output 480i?
"Modern"
A PS3 makes a relatively decent media player; Paired with a server on a nearby computer, it can have quite a nice bit of content streamed to it, and it comes out looking pretty nice.
On top of that, you've got access to RGBS or YPbPr, 480i or 480p(RGsB) for the former, and anything from 480i up to 1080p for the latter.
While it isn't the best on file types, that's where streaming from a media server comes in handy.
Not sure if it's something I'm overlooking in my setup, but some files do seem to have a bit of trouble with keeping audio and subs synced(only GITS and Wakfu come to mind personally), but it works quite well otherwise.
>>2777936
Wait, PS3 supports RGB?
>>2777940
RGBS, ala SCART; Uses the same exact cable as the PS1 and PS2.
If you don't have a SCART cable, a component cable that also has a composite cable attached works just as well; Alternatively, a standard component cable paired with a light gun breakout like this works as well.
It ALSO supports progressive RGB output in the form of RGsB (sync on green); Also a carryover from the PS2, but in this case, the system can output it at all times, system menu and all rather than just in game. Again, this is limited to 480p; To get anything higher, you have to use YPbPr or HDMI.
>>2777953
Interesting. Thanks for the explanation.
I'm guessing RGsB wont work on anything but those, now exceedingly rare official SCART cables though.
>>2777971
Nope, standard component cable works fine for it as well.
The system is generating everything related to the video signal outright.. Technically, a few small pieces of wire would work, so long as you could actually manage to get them to contact stuff properly.
I think you should technically have capacitors on the video lines to filter out the AC when in RGB mode, but it's worked perfectly fine with my PVMs and Megaview.
For non-professional equipment though, YMMV.
I posted this in the other thread, but fuck I don't know which is real
So I got a Super Retro Trio the other day and have been playing genesis games on my Sony Trinitron with it. I'm sort of new to this whole retro gaming thing. I have Sonic 1-3, and when using S-video I've noticed I get some screen distortion (top 2cm of screen is twisted in Chemical Plant Zone) and sometimes the screen flickers between two different image clarities. As if it's switching between component and S-video occasionally. I've noticed this doesn't really happen with Space Harrier II. That game seems to work fine. Is this an issue with my Sonic cartridges? They're used.
>>2777991
Hmm, when you are playing Genesis on your SRT via Svideo do you have both the Svideo AND Yellow video cable plugged in? Try only having one video cable plugged in at a time, either Svideo OR yellow composite- not both.
The Svideo input on the front of trinitrons have get notoriously finicky over the years as they tend to take a lot of punishment being on the front of the tv and often exposed.
If your front Svideo input is weak/dying/breaking it could be that you ARE experiencing your tv flickering between Svideo and yellow composite if you've got both cables plugged in
>>2778008
I did have both cables plugged in. Now I have just the S-video, and the image switches between S-video output and blackness at even 1-second intervals. What the hell? Playing Sonic 2.
>>2777426
>All BVMs (as far as I'm aware) require clean sync
Nah brah, no need to clean anything. Even the dirtiest Composite Vid is fine to use for sync, it'll come out clean as a whistle. Shit, you might even be able to feed RF in (via an adaptor). BVM's are the battleships of the CRT world. They do anything, with anything, and do it fricking perfectly.
This may not be true for the BVM-2000AP from the 80's, but it is for everything since. The sync line on a BVM will also handle 8Vp-p so you can just combine dat shit and not worry.
>>2778019
It could be that you've got a bad cable or a bad Svideo input on your trinitron. Try plugging the Svideo into one of the inputs in the back of the tv. They are usually a bit more sturdy
So after reading the pastebin, what I'm getting is that S-Video is the way to go correct?
At a local antique store I ran into a really nice 36inch Sony CRT with Component Inputs, Composite and and one SVideo input.
Would using Svideo be better than using the component on a CRT still?
I just want to be able to play Jet Set Radio Future and not have it look as awful as it does, especially on my 46 inch Samsung LCD TV.
>>2778121
Component ≈ RGB > S-video > Composite
>>2778121
>So after reading the pastebin, what I'm getting is that S-Video is the way to go correct?
>sour grapes svideofags actually spewed their bullshit enough to make people actually believe it.
S-video is just what you settle for when you can't get component or RGB.
I'm going to do it, the urge to play Resident Evil Dead Aim and Silent Scope with my light guns only increases as I browse this board more and more.
>>2778121
Component would be best but S-video really is not that much "worse" than Component.
If S-video is significantly cheaper or easier to come by you will be pretty happy with that.
However since you mentions JSRF I'm guessing you are talking about OGXbox- and component cables are pretty easy to come by for that for relatively cheap. Also OGXbox looks GREAT in component.
>>2778127
>S-video = sour grapes
Its all a matter of the cost benefit analysis.
For systems like SNES or PS1 the hoops/time/effort/money you may have to jump through to get Component/RGB on your system running through that really may not worth it for the minimal "benefit" you may see.
Sempai Kya has stated in the past (and feel free to correct me anyone else) that for the most part S-video produces practically as competent quality video as RGB/Component/Scart.
>>2778127
>sour grapes svideofags actually spewed their bullshit enough to make people actually believe it.
Is /vr/ really this pathetic?
I must leave again, I can't even
>>2778137
Its pretty good, but just make sure that whatever CRT you are getting can actually use the lightgun as certain "HD CRTs" have limited or no light gun compatibility.
I know for certain from personal experience that the ##FS120 series of Sony Trinitrons work great with all light guns.
>>2778139
Think of it this way. Compared to RF and composite and all the artifacts you'd see from those, S-video gives better sharpness and color, but most of all a great noise-free image. No combing or grittiness or dullness.
RGB and component offer even better sharpness and color over S-video, but visibly not much in terms of reducing noise since S-video tackles that very well already.
>>2778139
>hoops you have to run through
hoops follows:
>get SCART cable
>plug SCART cable into CRT
>???
>PROFIT?
I love living in Europe.
>>2778156
The problem with S-Video though is that it's completely ruined by poor cables. And if you're going to go official cables it's going to cost. I think I've managed to get good quality S-Video out of a console about once, and even then the colors are quite different. I'd say S-Video is same as composite just sharper with less noise, but RGB/Component improves the colors by a lot.
>>2778150
Whole heartedly agree, but a statement like
Component ≈ RGB > S-video > Composite
Is technically correct, but can lead to some misconceptions. Something like the below might clear things up a little better
Component ≈ RGB/Scart (10/10) > S-video (9/10) > Composite (5/10) > RF (2/10)
Those are my personal scores, but hopefully you get the jist. There is a benefit jumping from S-video to RGB/Component, but its limited and not extremely noticeable.
For some people the jump is an absolute must and a religious experience. For others it is really not needed and is just money spent for almost no increased benefit.
>>2778047
I actually only have an S-video input on the back of the TV. The S-video cable is new, came with the SRT. Fuck, I really hope there isn't an issue with the TV's input.
>>2778172
Fingers crossed for you anon. I hope that you just have a janky svideo cable, and that if you replace it the problem will be fixed.
With the SRT I have found that a different/better s-video cable helps.
Also make sure that you are using the proper power supply for the console. I've found that with clones if you dont have the exact right power supply it can make things screwy with your system.
>>2778182
>I just want to be able to play Jet Set Radio Future and not have it look as awful as it does, especially on my 46 inch Samsung LCD TV
Ya no.
>>2778185
>So after reading the pastebin, what I'm getting is that S-Video is the way to go correct?
>At a local antique store I ran into a really nice 36inch Sony CRT with Component Inputs, Composite and and one SVideo input.
>Would using Svideo be better than using the component on a CRT still?
Well done, you made me quote the complete remainder of the post.
>>2778179
I'm that original poster, clarifying what I said I wanted to see if there was a better quality picture in terms of using S Video over Component. I understand and I'm sure most of those posters know that the OG Xbox had no S Video output, but it was a general question I was throwing out there because I also own a Sega Genesis, Sega Saturn, Dreamcast, NES, and SNES as well and know some of those can be modified to output S Video because I misunderstood and assumed that S Video was also just as good as component cables if not better.
Next time think before you post please.
>>2778198
...Orignal Xbox DOES output S-video
http://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0485/4537/products/IMG_1746.JPG?v=1403288554
>>2778198
No retro system outputs component stock.
Pretty sure xbox has official svideo cables.
>>2777589
This board is also granted dispensation to talk about non /vr/ subjects as they relate to CRT usage. There's often overlap.
>>2777581
>EDTV[s] are nice cause they support up to 480p i believe
Minus the "up to" part, in most cases. They just process 240p/480i and show it as 480p. There are probably exceptions, but no multiformat consumer sets really did 480i natively.
>>2777757
Turn off H-delay and V-delay? Or whatever those are called on ikegami? That is, if there's no straight up V-hold.
ok i see>>2777879 now. Good to know i was right :)
>>2778270
>Not exactly sure about the tech behind it though.
Small transcoder in the cable, powered straight off the system's multi AV.
>>2778270
It's not YPbPr output from the console. It's basically just a CSY2100 built into the cable.
>>2773698
>This thread is for the spirited discussion of CRT displays - Televisions, monitors and projectors used for the playing of retro games!
Is an old arcade machine I'm trying to restore the monitor on (or explore other options) fine too?
>>2778324
afaik yes
>>2778324
If it's a CRT monitor, sure why not?
>>2778124
RF < Composite Video < S-Video < Component YPbPr ≤ RGB
Refined that for you. Also key note that video output quality is not created equal between different systems (See: Non-OneChip SNES)
>>2777940
Yes, but only up to 480p (via RGsB, like component). Therefore it's usually not recommended for PS3 except for PS1/PS2 titles on the system. Not sure why it can't go to 720p other than an analog bandwidth limitation somewhere in the system (Can CFW push higher than 480p RGsB or is it locked via hardware?).
>>2778324
Absolutely. It's a monitor that natively accepts RGB from retro game sources so it fits the bill. Care to discuss what you're trying to repair? Nanao? WG? I'm assuming around 29" since that's very common for arcade monitors.
>>2778395
>analog bandwidth limitation somewhere in the system
No, it's an intentional artificial limit based on DVD/Blu-Ray copy protection bullshit. Same old story.
>>2778483
>1080p over component
most new TVs don't like 1080p over component, not sure why. maybe soemthing with HDCP shit.
>>2778515
I think most accept it, however you can't play BD over component because muh piracy
>>2778395
Hey anon. I'm not versed on crt, but enjoy the superior quality it produces for snes. I'm not using a pvm or anything special, just one of those Samsung go clamshell tvs. How would I go about using an rf connection? Would any mods need to be done to the snes? What would be a better cut for optimum visuals? Thanks.
>>2778691
I'm hoping you mean RGB in that question for connection because RF is literally the worst quality output you can get from the SNES (or any console). To answer that question, there are tons of dedicated RF cables for the NES/SNES that plug into its internal RF Modulator. If that TV you mentioned is RF only, that's unfortunately the best you're going to get out of it anyways.
The "best cut" for optimum image quality you are going to get is RGBS but you also need a compatible monitor that can receive an RGB signal.
If the TV you mentioned has component ports, you can use an RGB > YPbPr Transcoder to convert the native RGBs on the multi-out to component. Otherwise, your only options that don't require you to get a new monitor are Composite AV cables or the RF out.
>>2778691
He was saying in that post that generally RF is the worst and RGB/component is the best. You don't want to use RF if it can be avoided.
If that's really what you want to do, though, you'd need an RF adapter for your system to connect to the antenna input on your TV.
Do 1080p CRT projectors exist?
>>2778171
>Component ≈ RGB/Scart (10/10) > S-video (9/10) > Composite (5/10) > RF (2/10)
In my recent experience with a wii it was more like:
Component (10/10) > S-video (5.5/10) > Composite (5/10)
Double checked to make sure the s-video cable was wired correctly.
What are some of the best consumer level Trinitrons that are not WEGAs with digital processing shit?
>>2778862
Pretty sure that only HD CRT TVs will do processing. So any SD Trinitron.
>>2778809
Are you doing something nutty like comparing 480p on component to 480i on S-video?
Composite
>>2779079
S-video
>>2778104
Don't quote me on this but I was told it is used by engineers to read some kind of information stored in the overscan areas. Something like that.
>>2779083
RGB
There is some improvement over S-vid, and reds gets better because NTSC is shitty at them (PAL does better), but the jump is nowhere near going composite to S-video.
If your only better options is S-video, go for it.
>>2779087
Yeah, each step along the road from RF, Composite, S-Vid, Component, and finally to RGB has diminishing returns (with Component and RGB being near identical). It's still worth the investment if you have the compatible hardware though.
>>2779095
For europe, it's usually easier to go RGB because of SCART equiped TVs.
For NA, it's usually simpler to go S-video because many TV have it and outside of PVMs you need a transcoder to go RGB to Component.
And then there's the poor australia, PAL land but little to no SCART tvs ; for them, S-video is by far the easiest route.
And there's also devices like projectors, some may support SCART signals over their VGA in, but the adaptor is often hard to find. For this S-video is probably the best compromise.
>>2779110
>S-video
I'm an Ausfag and I had never seen S-video until I started browsing the internet. Still never seen one in person.
Here it was either RF, composite or component. Those were your options until the advent of HDMI (at least where I live).
>>2779112
Really ? S-video started becoming popular with SVHS and Hi8 vidcams. The later being 100% sony tech, pretty sure many trinitrons were equiped to accomodate S-video
>>2779117
Not in Australia. Our Trinitrons don't have s-vid
I see PVMs as great retro setup TVs regardless of their RGB ability... small, boxy, stackable, durable, handles, etc.
So you may as well try for a PVM. And once you get one, might as well go RGB. Especially for the easy RGB consoles like SNES.
Perfect manageable retro setup is a 14" PVM. Then if you have the space, grab a secondary 27"+ consumer Trinitron.
>>2779002
I really hoped I wouldn't have to clarify something so obvious. No, I am comparing 480i to 480i.
>>2779112
>>2779167
Nigga you on cr... wait... Mate, you're dreamin'
SCART did exist here, though it was pretty damn rare. If you had mates with dads who bought top TV's and Hifis and had VHS in the 70's and CD players in the very early 80s, their TVs might have had SCART.
My point is that it does turn up on sets you find on the curb, though not very often, and never really on Trinitrons.
However, Trinitrons did have S-Video here. I have no idea what you've been smoking if you think otherwise. All of them that had component would have had S-Video, at any rate. And the same goes for competing brands. There was tons of S-Video here. Sure, we had no idea what it was, but it's on most better sets from about 1992-3 onwards.
>>2779301
Lol what are you smoking? I have had 4 consumer trinitrons dated from about the late 90s to the mid 2000s and none of them had s-video.
>>2779295
lel, almost sounds like you're taking it personally. Just an innocent double-check of a minor unmentioned detail anon, no harm no foul.
>>2779324
I just sperg out a bit when I know somebody is going to do something I won't like, then they do it.
I want to invest some money into a Dreamcast with a light gun, mostly for the house of the dead series.
Will my Sony Trinitron work with a light gun?
>KV-27FS120
>480i
>flat crt
I've been reading around and all I can find are conflicting sources.
>light guns work well with most crts
>light guns do not work at all with flat screen crt's
>>2779563
Should be fine. It's the ED/HD CRTs you want to stay away from and anything digital.
>>2773698
Just ordered a XRGB Mini
what am I in for? how difficult is it to find a LCD/Plasma with as close to zero lag as possible?
>>2779569
Thanks for the feedback. Do you have experience with light guns and flat crt's or if it just conjecture?
I know light guns aren't expensive but I'd rather not waste money if I don't have to.
>>2779563
Its that light guns only work with 15khz tvs so anything that runs 480i max should be in the clear its the 31k displays as well as digital that cause ligh guns to not work.
Atleast this is my understanding dont quote me im just a random guy on the internet
>>2779595
wrong thread
>>2779620
>Thanks for the feedback. Do you have experience with light guns and flat crt's or if it just conjecture?
Ya like 15 years ago.
>>2779595
>what am I in for?
It's easy to set up. As long as you got good jp21 cables it will look amazing.
>how difficult is it to find a LCD/Plasma with as close to zero lag as possible?
Very if you mean TVs. A good gaming TV only gets made every few years. Last one being the Sony w7/w8 b models.
>>2779654
Fuck them. Talk about it in this thread. Have a bunch of teens talking about CRTs from the mid 2000s anyway.
>>2779662
>Talk about LCD and plasma in this thread
If /crt/ dies and /display/ is born we are in for Triple Troll Trouble. Please don't invite this apocalypse.
>>2779662
Well the guy mostly answered my questions. I'm still wondering what the best tvs are though wondering what other users use.
>>2779670
Personally use a Sony w700b. Those TVs have around 10-14 ms lag. Pretty much nothing.
>>2779626
Yeah that's right. The way light guns work is that when you pull the trigger, it send two signals. One to the console, telling it to make the screen completely black for a frame EXCEPT for a white box where the target is, and at the same time telling the gun to activate its sensor. If the sensor in the gun lines up with the white box on the screen in that frame, it registers as a hit.
With newer displays and 480p displays, because of the processing lag when you pull on the trigger the sensor is activated first, then the white box shows on the screen. But because of the delay the sensor has already shut off by the time the white box gets to the screen, so it registers as a miss.
The more you know!
>>2779675
Looks like a nice tv. Seems very difficult to find though.
I'll keep looking, thanks.
>>2779716
Browse shmups. When a good LCD comes around they talk about it.
>>2779753
Thanks. I'll stay on the lookout. Seems like a lot of IPS monitors are good choices provided you're willing to figure out the speaker dilemma.
I'll just keep looking
>>2779768
Perhaps I'm just biased because I'm a sucker for Sony display technology, but honestly anything Sony in terms of CRT, Plasma or LED and you won't be disappointed. Sony LEDs are pretty much top of the line for gaming and while some of them might be better than others, even the worst of the bunch is going to be better than 90% of panels out there. You honestly can't really go wrong with Sony.
>>2779776
>LEDs
Ugh, just because TV manufacturer marketing departments have gotten everyone used to calling LED-backlit LCD TVs "LED TVs" doesn't mean we should propagate that same bullshit in the CRT thread no less.
>>2779776
There are so many. May take me a while to choose.
>>2779776
For gaming not so much.
>>2779792
well whats good then
>>2779801
Sony but you have to pick the right models.
>>2779809
welp. thanks I guess.
>>2779836
Try to find one of the w7/w8B models if possible.
how does the average NAC/blast city monitor compare to a consumer sony CRT? What about compared to a PVM/BVM?
i've been kicking around the idea of getting a cab for a while
>>2779846
>w7/w8B
europe only it seems unless i am mistaken
>>2779850
EU has different codes but the last letter is the same. the B models were the last wave. Current is C which is not very good for lag.
The america w6 is crap regardless the letter.
>>2779792
>Says Sony TVs are good
>Okay what's better than Sony?
>Sony
...
>>2779924
>a company makes a range of poor quality to high quality devices
>this is news
![2014-11-24 22_05_41-[EG]Victory_Gundam_36_DVD.mkv.jpg](https://i.imgur.com/FTudw4W.jpg "2014-11-24 22_05_41-[EG]Victory_Gundam_36_DVD.mkv.jpg")
>>2777805
I used my Wii to watch old toku shows on my CRTs but honestly the Wii just sucks for playback and I can't think of any other solution that uses RGB and could handle MKV.
I did watch Victory on my CRT monitor but I don't have enough space for the monitor to be connected all the time.
>>2780068
OGXbox does an ok job as long as it's no more than 480p in H264 (but depending on the encoding it might stutter though :/ so an overclocked OGXbox might be better). I would need to use a transcoding server, like with PS3's, for some more demanding material however. Also ofc no ASS rendering of subs, but it will display subs sort-of ok. (depends on how much you can tolerate subs staying on for too long etc. Also depends on if you're using the DVDPlayer or mplayer backend)
Otherwise as suggested higher up in the thread: use a PS3 with a transcoding server on your PC.
