Let's discuss Jews, /his/. Jews, Juice, Jews, potentially one of the most controversial peoples in the history of humanity.
This thread will be dedicated to understanding their history Jewish people, whether good or bad. /pol/ need not apply - instead of demonizing and fabricating conspiracy theories try to take an unbiased examination. There's this image flying around of a a list of places where Jews were expelled from, but instead of assuming they were evildoers examine each situation separately and decide whether they are actually to blame. Was it punishment? Was it persecution? Was it just a general policy to which the Jews fell along with other?
Let's start firstly with articulating what a Jew is - from the very beginning.
The earliest record for a Jew, or a proto-Jew, is Abraham, according to the Old Testament of course. A man who came from Uruk to the Holy Land. Up until entering Egypt it's safe to say that the Hebrews, still a small tribe, interbreed with the Canaanites in the area. Making Hebrews a generic Mesopotamian Semitic people, distinct only by religion. After entering Egypt, of course only allegedly, and staying there for several generation, and, as the OT tells us, a disconnection from the Hebrew religion, it wouldn't be surprising if they interbreed there as well. After Exodus, some Canaanite genocides, conversion by the sworn, shifty alliances, and eventual expansion of the Hebrew peoples 12 tribes emerged. A tribal confederation basically, if using modern terms. Strife and power struggles were always present, until eventually the era of kings came, unifying the Holy Land under one crown. Of course succession struggles happened then as well. Through war and peace, the Holy Land came to be a weak state, serving as a client kingdom to bigger empires throughout the second half of the 2nd millennium BC and throughout the 1st millennium BC. Of course, time and date are debatable, given not much survived except the OT.
1/?
>>465094
So where exactly do the modern Jews claim to come from - or rather, when did "Hebrew" become "Jew"?
At a certain point, still according to the OT, the Holy Land was split into two kingdoms - the Kingdom of Israel in the north - consisting of the 10 tribes; and the Kingdom of Judea in the south - consisting of the two biggest tribes Judea and Benjamin, which were considered one tribe for some reason.
Now, don't catch me on this one, but this part I don't particularly remember. Whether it was 10 tribes in the north and 2 in the south or 11 tribes in the north and 2 in the south but considered as 1 tribe.
Anyway, the at that point there was a significant split: The northern kingdom adopted pagan rituals and traditions, distancing itself from the Judaism, while the southern kingdom preserved its faith. This is perhaps where being a "true" Jew began. To be part of the ethnicity, you must also be part of the faith, or have ancestors bearing that faith. Which is why you'd hear often people saying they are secular Jews - they bear Jewish traditions, they identify as Jews but they are atheists.
Having all of this in mind you need to remember that a certain portion of the inhabitants of the Kingdom of Judea were taken into exile to Babylon. There they developed Jewish mysticism, adopted the local custom and broke a connection with the Jews still in the Holy Land. A good example is the story of Purim, where Mordechai and Esther foil the plans of Aman (a sort of a proto-Hitler if you will). The names of Moderchai and Esther (Ishtar) are obviously a direct influence of Babylonian culture.
After the Persian conquest and thus liberation of the Jews, some Jews returned to the Holy Land, some stayed. Marking an even bigger cultural separation.
2/?
>The earliest record for a Jew is Abraham
First post and already blatantly incorrect, Jews are the descendants of Judah, or people who lived in the Kingdom of Judah, whichever you prefer. You're essentially saying Abraham was a descendant of his great-grandson.
Incorrectly and anachronistically calling all Hebrews or Israelites "Jews" is a result of two things:
>Jews were the ones exiled to Babylon where they began writing the post-Pentateuch books
>Jews use this tactic to deliberately exclude other legitimate Israelites (such as the Samaritans) from Israel
>>465141
>The northern kingdom adopted pagan rituals and traditions, distancing itself from the Judaism, while the southern kingdom preserved its faith.
Another horseshit and Jewish retcon. David and Solomon themselves were idolaters, even the Tanakh mentions this little fact. David also descended from impure (Moabite) blood through Ruth, so it's pretty preposterous to claim southerners preserved anything.
I'm a white buddhist. Rip into me.
>>501220
what's the difference between acid and shrooms?
meh
Ok Schopenhauer, what wisdom do you have for us to rip into?
I am interested in slavic nazis in WW2 like Ukrainians and Croatians. How come they were nazis, eventhough Hitler himself considered slavs subhuman and wanted their clay for his lebensraum.
>>499664
They wanted the power what came with being nazi asslicker, wanted to live out they sadist fantasies and believed fagermany will win and they will have a place in it.
But zhey were wrong, fagermany lost and they got executed as collabarators.
Nice
>>499664
they were particularly brutal
Croats were renowned as the cops of the Austrian EMpire so they were happy to do the cops of Germany.
Plus, they loved to kill jews and communists. They even invented a specific tool to maximize the killing record
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Srbosjek
>>499706
I read about Croats, they were particulary sick in their slaughters of 'fellow' Slavs and people like Jews. Worse than Germans themselves. Ukrainians also at killing Poles. Strange mindset, very strange people.
How do you respond to Russell's teapot?
Fuck off back to reddit
>>499615
Sorry that this thread triggers you. You should go to r/Christianity, it's a safe place with no atheism posts.
>>499615
It's actually a fair point. The best theologians have long acknowledged that the claims of their religion are absurd and unprovable. With that in mind religion must prove it's worth by it's utility. That is whether or not beliving it does any good. In fact this is even more importaint than proving their God is real.
If the religion has no utility than even if the God he would not have the title of God, he would have to be considered a Demon. On the other hand if the religion were false but a noble lie than there would be no reason to stop believing just because it's not true.
What if Nazi Germany or Imperial Japan developed an atomic bomb before the Allies did?
>>495331
I don't see Japan developing any nukes at all.
But if Germany develops a nuke, I'm pretty damned sure Hitler would just drop it on London and cause the British to surrender.
They'd probably be lucky if he didn't decide to strap it on a V2.
>>495331
>Japs with Nukes
goodbye California
>Krauts with Nukes
goodbye London
Why is it the case that so many high profile intellectuals consider philosophy as "useless"?
Philosophy considered deprecated
>>494830
The only ones I've heard of doing that are edgy fedora tippers like Richard Dawkins
>>494841
>the oatmeal
ITT: Unpopular views of history you hold
> The world would be an objectively better place had the Germans crushed France and turned on Russia, thus bringing a swift conclusion to WWI
> Genghis Khan was not the greatest Mongol general, Subetai was superior.
>>492961
Genocide is simply a way of dealing with a problem
>>492967
Really unpopular one, but I agree on some level.
The world would be a far better place if the European colonial empires hadn't disintegrated.
I present you patient zero
>IT'S THE CURRENT YEAR, GUYS
>PRUSSIA IS CLEARLY THE BEST STATE
>DUDE REVOLUTIONARY JUSTICE LMAO
Let's talk about the actual history of Islam, not the one from any religious book, but anything from any HISTORICAL book
The greatest tragedy to befall the world. Caused the ruin of the middle east and south asia.
>>496980
Agreed, moar?
What was the first meme known to humanity? Where did it originate?
Something Finnish probably
My dick.
Your mom.
Cave paintings then religious iconography.
So, just for fun, let's do a little thought experiment.
Say you are sent back in time to the early Bronze Age and sent to a small village in the Mesopotamian region. You will not die of natural causes, age, or get sick until you live long enough to be in your own time. You automatically speak and understand the language of anyone you speak to. However, you can be killed and injured.
What do you do? You can do nothing and leave peacefully causing no changes in the timeline or try to change history.
What do you do? What changes so you make, if any? Also, you are allowed one item to bring with you. Bringing electronics is not allowed.
I'd bring my calc study sheet. Traveling to some large city and teaching the scholars about things so simple as trig, the value of pi, and even Arabic numerals could put them centuries ahead.
>>495668
Two paths: First path I would just want to be an observer, I wouldn't do anything except hang out in the village for a few decades and then start wandering around to go and observe the cool stuff - being in Bethlehem when Jesus was born, being around for the start of the Roman Empire, I would want to travel around Central Asia and see what it was like before Muslim influence, go to China before the Shang Dynasty came about, visit Japan when it was still Ainu, be in India during the colonial period/during the Mughals, go visit Siddhartha when he was still alive, all that fun stuff. It would be fascinating to see everything up close. When the Victorian age came around I would probably go exploring with people into Africa as well.
Other path, if I wanted to fuck with things, I would bring a physics textbook, I would teach the local people about math, gears, electricity, coal, fashion a printing press and have the book copied and translated so it could be dispersed + found a university to continue teaching people. It would be so so fascinating to see industrialisation in Mesopotamia with the rest of the map still dark. I would continue teaching until they get better than me, and then I would just travel around Europe/Africa/Asia to see things before advanced technology touched them.
>>495668
Anyone would be dead within decades at most. I'd bring along an inconspicuous but good suit of modern armor.
Recently learned that even Protestants fall on a wide range of spectrum, that some even acknowledge (macro)evolution while some think dancing is a sin.
Is there any source that gives a good overview?
bumperiono
Protestants are generally divined into two camps, Mainline and Fundamentalist. You already know what fundamentalists are, they can be easily spotted because they think evolution is bullshit.
Mainline Protestants are: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5bWHSpmXEJs
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mainline_Protestant
>>495689
Your typology is fucking shit.
How about a theologically driven typology: pseudo-Catholics, Lutherians, Calvinists, Radicals
Or a Church History driven typology:
Lutherians, Radicals, Calvinists, Anglo-Protestants, Old dissenters, New dissenters, Methodists, Baptists, Fundamentalists?
fucksake, no wonder the churches are dying.
Be honest now: How many of you play grand strategy games? Did you go into them because of an interest in history, or did you develop an interest in history partly because of them?
Interest in them because of history.
Hearts of Iron II blew my fucking mind. I could not believe it was a real game until I installed it.
>>494730
I came and stayed for the memes
t. Alberto barbosa
>>494730
me! I'm a huge World in Flames addict.
>Did you go into them because of an interest in history, or did you develop an interest in history partly because of them?
It's kind of cyclical for me. I think it very first started with the games, as my dad had my aforementioned vice in his basement and I started learning to play, which prompted me to study WW2 to try to figure out what the hell I was supposed to be doing, and that in turn led me to other things.
What could you tell me about Celt society? Why were they so warlike? Was it a part of their religion? A necessity?
>>494661
I don't know much about the period or the people, but I was under the impressions the Celts weren't particularly warlike. I mean, sure, they raided, but so did everyone. They were pretty average in terms of aggressiveness, or so I thought.
My ancestors speak to me, they are saying that it was pretty gay for such a warlike nation to be rekt by Norse.
>>494661
>Why were they so warlike?
Pretty much every bronze/iron age tribal civilization thingy was like that. What's life worth if you can't annually raid your neighbors?
I heard the medieval Welsh still had laws telling them to wage war at least once a year, though this could also just have been some bullshit.
>jesus was buddhist acolyte
where does this meme come from?
>>493535
It comes from new age hippies who aren't able to critically contrast religious systems and instead rely on the trope of perrenialism as a substitute for examination.
>>493535
It comes from lay misunderstandings of serious work from people like Prof. Zacharias Thundy
>>493535
>Hey dude, nice weed you have here.
>Hey thanks man, you know like Jesus and Buddha said some of the same things yaknow?
>Like, yeah man, you know those years between Jesus being a kid and adult and stuff? I bet he went and studied with the Buddha you know. India's way cool like that.
>Yeah. Dude weed lmao.
>Lmao weed.
