Prove me wrong.
Communism is supposed to create a classless society, & so far there haven't been any classless societies.
All of the Dictators that claim to run Communist countries are wrong, because another class is created specially for the dictator.
Karl Marx himself wrote that in order for a country to undergo Communism it must have successfully undergone Capitalism first, which means Communism is the future.
Real Communism hasn't truly been tried because it was rushed & wasn't ready to be tried, but the day for it to be enforced is approaching for the U.S.
>>70888228
tell me can real communism be tried and how would I try it, so I can try it.
>>70888228
Nah, usually what happens is communism creates a class of serfs, but its still capitalist at the top for the elite. I would look at the EU for its closer to Communism than we are.
>>70888322
>>70888228
Wanted to ask this too^. Pls enlighten us, O' "smart" and "powerful" leftist redditor.
>>70888322
>>70888514
A political revolution against the greedy capitalists. Democracy Spring is the first step, it's all unfolding.
>>70888322
There's a tribe in the Amazon rainforest that practices a form of Communism successfully.
Ad far as I know, this is the ONLY time communism has resulted in a happy, prosperous society, and it only works because there's just 300 of them and they're completely removed from the outside world.
>>70888806
give me the steps I will try it and post results.
>>70888906
If you need instructions on how to start it, then where will you get the instructions on how to end it?
>>70888228
Why would you put your trust in Karl Marx?
>>70888806
>There's a tribe in the Amazon rainforest that practices a form of Communism successfully.
>a form of Communism
So, the minute shit goes south for them it'll be another case of they weren't true communists?
GAS THE KIKES
>>70889074
Don't worry, it will end itself.
>>70888906
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1TSjXcY1I7Q
They have no hierarchy, practice polygamy and egalitarianism, and share their food with each other. This is the closest humans will ever get to "true" communism. An isolated tribe in the middle of the jungle.
>>70888806
Weren't the incans kind of communist they always shared food and took care of the sick and old and would work/build for a certain time of year. There was no money only food and they were an empire
>>70889380
They had a hierarchy though. In communism EVERYONE is equal (but pigs are more equal)
>>70889365
WHAT ABOUT THE INCA CIVILIZATION
>>70888228
and unlit humankind evolves beyond the fickle influence of emotion, it won't be
>>70889559
*until
>>70889301
Shit's already going south for them, the ebil Brazilian Man wants to clear their land to mine metals. Although since their potential downfall wouldn't be due to their Communist practices, I don't think the "true communist" meme applies here.
>>70888228
Agreed!
>>70889350
>it will end itself
It's an idea, it can't end itself retard.
>>70889495
samefag, see>>70889468
>>70888228
>for it to be enforced
"Real" Communism is too defenseless and requires all to be on the same page and not be threatened by an outside force.
>>70888417
this
>>70888693
>Democracy Spring is the first step
Antifa, pls go.
>>70888228
A classless society seems fucking stupid. If everyone has money, nobody has it.
>>70888228
I hope you get hit by a truck you disgusting maggot.
Disgusting communists. You supported the genocide of Russian peoples.
I cannot wait to hang your kind while I stick hammer and sickles up your anus.
>Anarcho-syndicalism (also referred to as revolutionary syndicalism[1]) is a theory of anarchism which views revolutionary industrial unionism or syndicalism as a method for workers in capitalist society to gain control of an economy and use that control to influence broader society. Syndicalists consider their economic theories a strategy for facilitating worker self-activity and as an alternative co-operative economic system with democratic values and production centered on meeting human needs.
>>70889712
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pirah%C3%A3_people
These ones right?
I'm not so sure saying they're communist is quite correct, seems they're too primitive for much of anything.
That is a shame though.
>>70888228
Wew lad. Anti-white degenerate detected.
>>70888228
It can't be tried, due to basic human instincts.
We're greedy.
>>70888693
>Democracy Spring
It is and attempt to spread chaos, nothing more. See: Arab Spring.
>>70889899
>if everybody has money, then no one has it
That's a main point of Communism, Karl Marx stated that in a Communist society money is non existant.
>>70888693
Oh, you mean like what happened in Russia and China? Yeah, that really worked out well for them.
>>70888228
Communists understand the difference between "never been tried" and "tried and failed." Communism doesn't result in a stateless society. Such a thing cannot exist.
>>70890152
So entire point of Marxism is to get rid of money?
>>70890107
Nice picture, too bad the Nazis got BTFO'd by my USSR comrades.
>>70890120
To be fair, it did work for one country out of the many during the Arab Spring, Tunisia.
>They [the Marxists] maintain that only a dictatorship—their dictatorship, of course—can create the will of the people, while our answer to this is: No dictatorship can have any other aim but that of self-perpetuation, and it can beget only slavery in the people tolerating it; freedom can be created only by freedom, that is, by a universal rebellion on the part of the people and free organization of the toiling masses from the bottom up.
Communism was suppose to happen in the developed former colonial world first which makes sense considering it would be hard for a revolutionary communist society to sustain itself with a hostile alliance of capitalist countries attacking it. But at the same time it's hard to see it developing in the first world first barring a monumental collapse in the economy and i personally think a fascist society would be more likely. Capitalism has proven itself much more resilient and adaptive than Marx could have anticipated.
Communism is incompatible with economics.
>>70890220
No, a main point. I never said it was the entire point, I said it was a main point.
>>70888228
> socialist revolution never been tried
>>70888693
Doesn't sound like it would end in a classless society to me
>>70888228
>All of the Dictators that claim to run Communist countries are wrong, because another class is created specially for the dictator.
The Dictatorship of the Proletarian is another step in the process of achieving communism, but guess what faggot no one is going to voluntarily give up absolute power. Which is why it is never going to work. Even if there was a society that successfully went trough the stages of capitalism and socialism it will forever be stuck in the dictatorship of the proletariat
>>70888228
And it never will be tried because we refuse to be insects
>>70888228
Marxism proposed to give absolute powers to the State over the life, property and well-being of its citizens (Socialism), in order to smash Capitalism, and then proceed to dismantle the State itself. (Communism).
Yes, you read that right, Marx wanted to give absolute powers to the State, in order to dismantle the State. The trap is obvious.
What is pretty amazing is that even today so many shitheads like the OP still believe in Communism even after it has MURDERED 160 MILLION PEOPLE WORLDWIDE.
Want to see a Socialist society?
Head to North Korea.
Want to see a Stateless society?
Head to Somalia.
Either way us in the Free World won't miss you and your blood-drenched cancer ideology.
>>70888228
Marx advocated for a vanguard to push the proletariat into communism into a stepping stone. That's literally what Marxist-Leninism is. Thus while it was fair to say that "communism" has not literally been tried, there were multiple failed attempts to achieve communism by transitional countries. Assuming that every "communist" country had not undergone capitalism first is also statistically false when you look at DDR.
tl;dr
You're purposely misrepresenting history and Marxism to serve your purpose which is Marxist revisionism at it's finest. Fuck off, pinko shit.
>>70890221
While they were supplied with American aircraft and trucks. :^)
>>70889365
>>70888806
How much is their life expectancy?
20 years? 30?
Fucking idiots, when did this site turn into Leddit?
>>70888228
The delusion is strong in this one.
>We have so often demonstrated that State Communism is impossible, that it is useless to dwell on this subject. A proof of this, furthermore, lies in the fad that the believers in the State, the upholders of a Socialist State do not themselves believe in State Communism. A portion of them occupy themselves with the conquest of a share of the power in the State of today - the bourgeois State - and do not trouble themselves at all to explain that their idea of a Socialist State is different from a system of State capitalism under which everybody would be a functionary of the State. If we tell them that it is this they aim at, they are annoyed; yet they do not explain what other system of society they wish to establish. As they do not believe in the possibility of a social revolution in the near future, their aim is to become part of the government in the bourgeois State of today and they leave it to the future to decide where this will end.
>>70888228
>Karl Marx himself wrote that in order for a country to undergo Communism it must have successfully undergone Capitalism first
He also wrote that it's okay to have a dictatorship, as people may not be willing to surrender to communism so easily.
He also wrote that it's okay to kill the ones that fight communism, as they may hinder the "progress".
All the communist dictadors just followed what Marx wrote so yes, communism HAS been tried multiple times before.
>>70888806
>agrarian communism
>real communism
fuck off revisionist scum
>>70890585
I love you man, exactly what I thought
Real communism hasn't been tried because real communism cannot function in the real world. It's a lot like anarcho-capitalism in that regard.
>>70888906
Okay anon they're really hard to find. I did a lot of research shyffling through my uncle's documents (he's a professor) and this is a negro african black tribe of african origin, very big actually. They call themselves the "argentina" well there you go I wish you luck on your quest. Good luck.
>>70888228
Obviously that will only work when everyone each as one can admit that they are no better than any other form, that all life force is equally distributed across all this existence, and any subjective belief is bullshit and only principle is equitable.
>>70890290
where does this quote come from?
>>70889712
>A brazilian tribe
>Still untouched by the white men
Sad to see people still believing this meme.
Pic related is the most "savage" brazilian tribe.
>>70890831
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikhail_Bakunin#Critique_of_Marxism
>>70890430
Communism:
100 Million Deaths
Capitalism: 1.6 Billion Deaths
Pick your poison
>>70890585
Marx said a Dictatorship was okay to achieve Communism, but he never said it was okay to continue the Dictatorship once Communism had been achieved. Also, he never said a Dictatorship was mandatory.
Surprised nobody has posted this.
>>70890931
Those are some pretty arbitrary and probably cherry picked numbers there, comrade.
>>70888228
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hLzRxZ3HRc
>>70890496
What on earth gave you the idea I was praising them? If anything, this shows just how much communism sucks as an economic method, when only a single tribe has ever made it work, and even then they're extremely primitive and have short life spans.
>>70891019
by communist reckoning, every famine other than the one during the Great Leap Forward was caused by capitalism
>Vietnam
>Laos
>Cuba
>USSR
>Baltic States
>Ethiopia
>Somalia
That's just a few countries among others that attempted "real communism" and failed, and are still recovering to this day. What makes you think this time will be different?
>>70888228
"Real" communism can't exist. The moment someone decides "no, my house isn't public property" either you need a government to step in and force them out or everyone else decides their property is their own as well and you no longer have communal ownership of property. Russia or China arguably got the closest to actual communism that we will ever see, and in both cases we saw human rights abuses on a massive scale by their respective governments, slower economic growth and technological development than any western nation, and a lower standard of living than even the poorest people in any capitalist country.
>>70888228
Automation and technological / societal advancement makes communism a necessity, not a possibility.
IF you want to return to feudalism, with everyone at the peasant-level of wealth and comfort, choose anything but a path towards communism.
Every man a king? Communism.
Robots do all the work, you get rid of money as we know it so people don't have to continue the trend of working more jobs' worth of work to get less wealth, etc.
Just don't worry too much about it. It will come in sequence, and most people will still be conservative / religious in a thousand years just like they always have been so who cares
>>70891132
This just shows that true communism is too elite for just anyone to start. It is a careful and tedious system that if accomplished, is rewarding in the end.
>>70890475
>5 years of supply from the us
>that sums up only 7% of soviet production
>paid later with russian gold and goods
KEK
You only trully helped britain which fought on the war more than you.
>>70891127
>by communist reckoning
There's your problem.
Also, the Holodomor wasn't a famine in the sense that agricultural production simply failed, rather it was a directed famine as the Stalin would rather export the grain to Western countries to get hard currency while forcing the kulaks to starve.
>>70888228
>Real Communism Hasn't Been Tried
Nice meme.
>>70891335
>7% that helped propel deep battle
>american goods that kept the war effort going when the empire was on the ropes
Ok.
>>70888228
Communism fails utterly as a concept simply due to its failure to recognize ambition and lethargy. Why should I work hard and educate myself if I would receive no reward? Alternatively, why would I do anything but the bare minimum to get paid?
Expecting communism to work is like saying I should own a rainbow farting, solid gold pissing unicorn that gives on-demand blowjobs. I should also have a continuous month long orgasm with Emma Stone and Gianna Michaels
It's a nice concept, but unrealistic.
>>70891359
>>by communist reckoning
>There's your problem.
that's the joke
the Holodomor happened because kulaks burned their farms to hurt the revolution, not because of massive mismanagment by intellectuals that had never seen a farm before in their life
the Bengal famine happened because because of capitalism hurting food production and not the British government using war as an excuse to fuck over Indians
the famines in North Korea were cause by international sanctions, not their psychotic government
>>70888228
>tfw organic dialectical materialist.
Yeah dude. Cultures undergo evolutionary stages and changes which result from the clash of various classes and groups within society each attempting to assert their own interest. This evolution takes has an egalitarian trend because there are more slaves, serfs, proletariat, and workers than there are masters, lords, bourgeoisie, and managers. As time goes on we will shift from an cultural system based on the free exchange of goods and services with bourgeoisie controlling the means of production in the main, towards a different system with different but more equal social relations. Someday this system will be replaced by another system yet more equal until the difference is negligible.
You can't just instantiate a future culture. Leftists are fucking stupid and don't understand Marx because of their petty feel-good egalitarian bullshit which they use to avoid acknowledging the point blank effect of power differentials. You can raise the minimum wage all you want but capitalists gonna capital because that's the current social dynamic. FFS even crazy hippy bullshit rainbow gatherings barter weed and chores to run the festivals and they don't even realize they're engaging in capitalism. Guess what? The dude who shows up with the RV gets to rent seek off the fact that he has a fucking kitchen.
>>70891542
Dude do you think that they got those supply for free?
they paid with gold and goods after the war.
I was amazed that they didn't fund both sides of the war.
>>70891609
Oh, the "it's good on paper but shit irl" meme.
Look at Capitalism on paper.
One rich man enslaves financially below average & average individuals to become 1,000 times richer than his slaves would dream of becoming. It sounds great to be the rich man, but a majority of us won't be him.
>>70891848
They sure as shit didn't, the the Lend Lease act was a thing.
>I was amazed that they didn't fund both sides of the war.
There were some stock brokers that financed Hitler before the war started.
>>70891924
okay, distribute the profits to the workers.
>This approach was exemplified by syndicalism, an anarchist strategy championed by Bakunin, according to which trade unions would provide both the means to defend and improve workers' conditions, rights and incomes in the present, and the basis for a social revolution based upon workplace occupations. The syndicalist unions would organize the occupations, as well as provide the radically democratic structures through which workplaces would be self-managed, and the larger economy coordinated. Thus, for Bakunin, the workers' unions would "take possession of all the tools of production as well as buildings and capital."[42]
>>70891924
Or they could be serfs or slaves.
>>70889100
This the guy was a literal neet and possibly homosex.
>>70888693
Hello Soroshill.
>>70891924
So your solution is to tear it all down for another minority of people to be in power? Historically that's how it's always gone. You're "has never been tried" meme is also shit. It has been tried, multiple times. Read some Clausewitz for a little perspective, ideal war can never be achieved because they will always be friction that shits up the plan. In terms of Government, this is also true. Capitalism has it's pitfalls, but it sure is shit better than an egalitarian pipe dream that assumes all people are inherently good.
How retarded are you?
>>70889301
No you retard
all profit is distributed to workers equally, do I have Communism now?
>>70890980
>>70888228
>Real Communism Hasn't Been Tried
He wants the fake one. :^)
>>70889806
Or maybe people like Pinochet, Pol Pot, Lenin, and the Freikorps could just stop invading non authoritarian socialist countries.
>>70890980
Just sayin
>>70892589
r/fullcommunism pls
>>70890931
>Capitalism: 1.6 Gorillion Deaths
Source: (Open Source)
>>70892652
>Spartacists
>literally do what we say or we'll kill you
>not authoritarian
Weimar shill plz go.
>>70889941
Shhhhh
Can't have actual political discussion here!
Remember: all leftism is literally Stalin
>>70892589
>>70892721
except literally nobody has ever said "capitalism has never been tried" as an arguing point before
>>70890173
Communism isn't the handing over of everything to the state though, if that's what you're talking about.
>>70892589
>japs
>innocent
Pick one
>>70892739
Far moar dank than that. I actually got it from 2ch.hk
>>70892589
/leftypol/ cannot into memes
>>70890303
Nice meme
>>70890418
That's why some cases skip dictatorship.
>>70891715
0/10, I ain't gonna bite a bait this big my white friend.
Real Holocaust hasn't been tried either.
>>70890430
>muh 100 billion trillion gorillion!!1!!
The rest of your post is a strawman and everyone knows it.
>>70888228
>That one communist that comes back day after day of getting blown the fuck out
I don't know what makes him thinks today will work out, but then again communists like trying things that will never work.
>>70892589
>capitalism hasn't been tried
baka
Liberal-Marxist cuckjob hopping the border to hug trees that are stealing our bread-bag jobs and exporting them to Hollywood and then inhaling bootstrap-dope to legalize political correctness so they can have their welfare-immigrant marijuana at the gay shop with the academia-intelligentsia thugs of D.C., who get nothing done but saving starving children from birth certificates so they can take the guns away from our Founding Fathers, who art in heaven, for patriotism and states' rights for all. Amen...able to lowering taxes, may God have mercy on the main stream Obamacare and all the other communist-elitists in Washington, where Congress gets nothing abortionized from the Framer's original intent to hold up individual responsibility over Christian-White values for the regressive vouchers that are killing job-creators in our social-justice media schools where they play games with race taxes and death cards.
>>70892907
Historical evidence are memes now, apparently. Communiggers are just embarrassing anymore.
>>70890496
Lifespan is short from primitive technology, not communism. Theoretically, a modern commune could exist.
>>70888228
Communism fails because mankind is naturally selfish and greedy.
People who want an equal society are those who have nothing.
Yes sometimes life is unfair, but if you have clean drinking water, food in your stomach, a warm home and a safe place to sleep you are already in a better place than starving children in some parts of the world.
Start giving food and clothing to the homeless and see how fast your grow tired of it and want your money to go on you and your family and nobody else.
>>70892589
Capitalism is used mang...but failed horribly, not even Marx preditect what would have happened
>>70892837
>>70892890
>(you)
>cannot into symmetrical meme counters.
D- in applied memetics. You'll have to retake the class.
>>70888228
Communism has been tried several times.
The idea of a classless society is an illusion.
There's a class and when it is determined by the weaker class all shit goes loose.
Better explained, you are equal because we say you are
>>70889468
Four legs good! Two legs bad!
>>70888228
>Every time we have tried communism has resulted is mass genocide, lets try just once more to make sure.
>>70893372
WHAT FAILED WASN'T REAL CAPITALISM
THERE WAS TOO MUCH GOVERNMENT FUCKING IT UP. IF ONLY WE HAD A TRUE LIBERTARIAN FREE MARKET. IF ONLY WE TRIED REAL CAPITALISM
>>70893426
>You'll have to retake the class.
Same goes for the guy who made your chart.
It's shit.
>Capital and the Debt Trap reports that "cooperatives tend to have a longer life than other types of enterprise, and thus a higher level of entrepreneurial sustainability". A 2013 report published by the UK Office for National Statistics showed that in the UK the rate of survival of cooperatives after five years was 80 percent compared with only 41 percent for all other enterprises.[30] A further study found that after ten years 44 percent of cooperatives were still in operation, compared with only 20 percent for all enterprises" (p. 109). This resilience has been attributed to how cooperatives share risks and rewards between members, how they harness the ideas of many and how members have a tangible ownership stake in the business. Additionally, "cooperative banks build up counter-cyclical buffers that function well in case of a crisis," and are less likely to lead members and clients towards a debt trap (p. 216). This is explained by their more democratic governance that reduces perverse incentives and subsequent contributions to economic bub
>>70889380
No they didn't. They had the equivalent of a monarchy, with an emperor, lords, vassals, and serfs. They didn't even last very long because their entire empire got fucked over from civil war over a succession. By the time the Spanish came, they could barely put up a fight.
>>70893609
>WHAT FAILED WASN'T REAL CAPITALISM
Said noone ever.
>equating capitalism with the free market
>>70893136
How is it a strawman?
Communism is a concept created by a man called Marx. People followed Marx's teachings and implemented brutal dictatorships. Ergo, Marxism is the ideological equivalent of pancreatic cancer.
>>70893303
No, it couldn't. You need a high degree of organization to build complex technology like computers, CT scanners, cars, etcetera.
Since these technological devices require multiple components and large scale organization of labour, you need a hierarchy, rules (laws), trade routes, a military to defend said trade routes and enforce those laws, by the end you have the etchings of a modern State.
Anarchism and Anarcho-Syndicalism and similar ideologies are primitivist cancer. Capitalism got us to the Moon.
>>70893621
>>70893743
They phrase it differently. But fallacies of purity are the bread and butter of libertarians and free market conservatives.
My european but fair history teacher claimed this. She also said race didnt exist.
I dont think anyone believed her.
>>70893892
Again
>equating capitalism with the free market
>Thoreau's philosophy of civil disobedience later influenced the political thoughts and actions of such notable figures as Leo Tolstoy, Mahatma Gandhi, and Martin Luther King, Jr.
>Thoreau is sometimes cited as an anarchist.[4] Though Civil Disobedience seems to call for improving rather than abolishing government—"I ask for, not at once no government, but at once a better government"[5]—the direction of this improvement points toward anarchism: "'That government is best which governs not at all;' and when men are prepared for it, that will be the kind of government which they will have."[5] Richard T. Drinnon reproaches Thoreau for his ambiguity when writing on governance, noting that Thoreau's "sly satire, his liking for wide margins for his writing, and his fondness for paradox provided ammunition for widely divergent interpretations of 'Civil Disobedience'."[6]
>>70893609
Where's the part where Chavez began to use live ammunition on the protesters, culminating in one of the most brutal dictardorship on South America?
>>70889350
>>70999765
>another one over the leftist's head
>>70893609
>Socialism of the 21th century
And what a shithole it turned out to be eh
>>70888228
Communism kills human driive, if Im paid the same for shitting in fields as a guy who builds cars when obviously he guy who builds cars will get pissed off,, Capitalism is just human nature at its finest we are meant to be in a permanent state of resource inequality.
>>70893609
Well Venezuelan socialism hasn't really been doing well lately
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UOQb7Y5QVO8
I love me some dank commie maymays
Gimme some rare sandies
>>70894109
>venezuela engulfed by protesters
The graphic is prescient.
>>70893714
coops are caught up in capital accumulation. it's value production for the sake of value, capital accumulation and wage labor
don't get me wrong, coops are all well and fine, i just won't allow radicals to take part in the fantasy that they are not capitalism
a world dominated by coops would be just as prone to crises, war, systems of oppression, unemployment, underemployment, poverty
>>70894197
And why do you think that is?
>>70893999
Again
>Not understanding that two completely different groups can use fall victim to the same fallacy
>It is my firm conviction that if the State suppressed capitalism by violence, it will be caught in the coils of violence itself, and fail to develop nonviolence at any time. The State represents violence in a concentrated and organized form. The individual has a soul, but as the State is a soulless machine, it can never be weaned from violence to which it owes its very existence. Hence I prefer the doctrine of trusteeship.
>>70888228
Communism doesn't account for human greed/ambition. Communism will never work out as it does on paper. How is this still even an argument?
>>70894239
The CIA, of course, ya shit.
>>70889380
No. Those savages didn't even have the wheel
>>70888228
tell me more about how there is no true scotsman
>>70888228
this was documented in the acts of the apostles. people were griping back then that the holders of the purse strings were showing favoritism. in order for pure communism to work you have to have alot of rich people willing lower their standard of living to bring up the poor peoples standard of living. nobody is taht altruistic
>>70894336
>The US is why my retarded economic policies are failing and our oil-dependent economy is crashing!
Mcfucking kill yourself
>>70894264
Capitalism does not require a free market, which makes
>"WHAT FAILED WASN'T REAL CAPITALISM, THERE WAS TOO MUCH GOVERNMENT FUCKING IT UP"
completely, and utterly bullshit.
Not having real capitalism, and not having a true free market are very different things.
Your premise was shit to begin with.
>>70894320
>communist world
>i desire more shit
>i can make that shit myself
>problem solved
>>70894470
>Mcfucking kill yourself
The hue seems triggered
>>70894633
>u mad
Not an argument
>>70888228
You are 100% correct OP
True/real communism has never been tried because communism on a national scale is literally impossible. The moment you have one person taking advantage of the altruism of his fellows you no longer have communism but a parody of civilization that is doomed to collapse.
You want communism to work? Try and get the human race to evolve into a hive mind like bees or the Borg.
Communism is a pipe dream and a fucking dumb one at that. Please either join us in the real world or kill yourself
>>70894506
Name one non-market capitalism. Fuck nut. I'll wait.
>>70894595
It's funny that you think that is a solid argument. Not everyone is greedy for a wooden rocking chair you fucking sperg. Nor is their ambition always fulfilled by simple crafts.
>>70888228
>No True Scotsman Fallacy
Very nice
>>70894704
>Not an argument
Nor is
>Mcfucking kill yourself
>>70893609
This image shows why socialism doesn't work
>>70894993
Except that I implied why their economy is shit and why people are protesting,did you read my post?
>>70895061
You just seemed to be bawwing really hard. It made it really hard to give a fuck about your retarded conflation of resource dependence with their choice of economic system.
I think for communism to occur, everyone would have to stop being selfish. That is impossible insofar as the need to be the best is an innate human tendency. Has there been a culture found in which competition doesn't exist? I don't think so.
>>70894937
the beautiful thing about people being ambitious for power over other human beings is that the means to dominate other human beings and derive a profit from exploiting them will be impossible
who gives a shit if sociopaths like these are ambitious? it's a good thing to deprive them of the ability to dominate
>>70894139
>>70894109
>>70894032
>Venezuela has the highest murder rate in the world
>They can come here visa-free thanks to Mercosur
Well... fuck.
>>70894928
>non-market capitalism
Yet another false premise.
Why do I even need to explain this shit? This is fucking basic shit that even an undereducated retard like me knows.
Capitalism needs a market to exist, true.
Whether the market is free from government intervention(aka THE FREE MARKET) or not is entirely irrelevant.
Market =/= Free market
>>70895241
Nah, you just set up an elaborate system of checks and balances where anyone who acts selfishly gets shipped off to the gulag.
>>70895241
i think for communism to occur the tendency of the rate of profit to fall will have to cause another crisis, and advanced manufacturing technologies and decentralized renewables that bring the point of production to the individual will create a very large incentive for people to produce for their own use rather than enter the market to sell their labor so that they can exchange to gain their subsistence
this of course takes time, but, it won't have anything to do with something nearly as stupid as "a change in human nature"
>>70895282
Except it is always the ambitious who come into power. Which is exactly why faggots like you spout this tired argument of "Muh true Communism has never been tried." Just stop.
>>70895322
Pure communism and pure capitalism live on opposite ends of an axis labeled "market freedom"
Market freedom is not orthogonal because it is the variable that discriminates them. (Provable because free market communism and non-market capitalism are not things that exist, or if they did, would be considered impure variants of the maximalist ideal)
tl;dr you're impressive levels of stupid. If trolling you weren't so much fun, it would be painful to talk down to your level.
>>70888228
>Communism is supposed to create a classless society, & so far there haven't been any classless societies.
In other words, Communism has been tried and failed.
so like how america hasn't reached real capitalism, and how it's only corporatist?
>>70895212
>Be Chavez
>Can't run a country for shit
>50% of the economy is depedent on Petroleum
>Highly interventionist
>Price controls,Expropriation of farmlands
>Petroleum production going down because of all that arbitrary regulation
>Shortage of goods
>People clearly angry for the lack of said goods like toilet fucking paper
>People protest
>Use live ammo on them
>People get more angry
>Finally kick the bucket
>His successor is a fucking bus driver
>Shamelessly jails opposition
>GDP growth is at -5.7
>No sane person wants to invest in Venezuela because the government can literally seize all of their shit "for the people"
Yeah,the CIA is totally why Venezuela isn't literally heaven right now huh?
>Hotels, steamers, boarding houses, are all experiments in this direction undertaken by the bourgeois. For so much per day you have the choice between ten or fifty dishes placed at your disposal at the hotel or on the steamer, with nobody controlling the amount you have eaten of them. This organisation is even international and before leaving Paris or London you may buy bons (coupons for 10 francs a day) which enable you to stay at will in hundreds of hotels in France, Germany, Switzerland, etc., all belonging to an international society of hotels.
>The bourgeois thoroughly understood the advantages of partial Communism combined with the almost unlimited freedom of the individual in respect to consumption, and in all these institutions for a fixed price per month you will be lodged and fed, with the single exception of costly extras (wine, special apartments) which are charged separately.
>Fire, theft and accident insurance (especially in villages where equality of conditions permits the charge of an equal premium for all inhabitants), the arrangement by which great English stores will supply for 1s. per week all the fish which a small family may consume, clubs, the innumerable societies of insurance against sickness, etc., etc.. This mass of institutions, created during the 19th century, are an approach towards Communism with regard to part of our total consumption.
>>70895786
>>70895212
Oh and don't forget the insane inflation too
>>70895605
well, that's really the rub, dude. on the one hand, radical ideologues like to spread that socialism as a mode of production has never existed, and that the actually existing 20th century socialist states were state-capitalist, which is true. the thing is, the important lesson that underlies this is that people simply can't transform the mode of production through sheer conscious will. it's never happened that way in the past, and it won't happen that way in the future when the next mode emerges from within capitalism
>>70888228
IT hasn't been tried because the 'human beings' it works with do not exist and never have. Hence, the main ingredient of communism, the people who would make up the commune, is missing and it cannot be 'truly' tried
>>70893357
You make a good point: as individuals, the problem is intractable. It's also unfair and far too burdensome. You can give all your money, and you can spend all yours helping those less fortunate, and it will never make a significant enough difference to change the world.
But that doesn't mean the alternative is acceptable; hoarding more than you need? Granted I don't have millions and never will, but I can't imagine wanting to keep millions store away in a savings account while I hold onto several houses.
Ah yes. That is how deceptive the imagination is. It's always easy to speak of doing the right thing instead of following through. The power of the situation compels us all.
We need laws prohibiting people from getting too rich. I mean, if we have laws preventing monopolies, why don't we have laws preventing individuals from becoming too powerful? Our laws are so inconsistent.
There's no way we can justify the existence of billionaires when we have hundreds of millions of people starving. And it all comes down to us as individuals, and as a society, being utterly selfish. It might all change once things go down hill, as with Rome.
>The Mondragon Corporation is a corporation and federation of worker cooperatives based in the Basque region of Spain. It was founded in the town of Mondragón in 1956 by graduates of a local technical college. Its first product was paraffin heaters. It is the tenth-largest Spanish company in terms of asset turnover and the leading business group in the Basque Country. At the end of 2014, it employed 74,117 people in 257 companies and organizations in four areas of activity: finance, industry, retail and knowledge.[2]
>>70895609
>pure capitalism
No such thing exists.
>"market freedom"
A capitalist system with the maximum amount of market freedom is simply called "free market capitalism", not "pure capitalism".
Can private individuals or organization own capital and the means of production?
Can you sell you products to the market for profit?
If your answer to both of these questions are "yes", then the economic system is fucking capitalism.
>>70895786
>His successor is a fucking bus driver
Is that true?
>>70895609
so prior to the neolithic revolution, when nomadic bands of hunter gatherers didn't labor for a wage to exchange in the market place for their subsistence, but created, hunted, or gathered shit for their own use, where does this system fall on the spectrum of market freedom
>>70895786
>A bus driver
Shit nigger thats almost as bad as the Canadian PM being a substitute drama teacher
>>70896333
>>70896426
>Maduro found employment as a bus driver for many years for the Caracas Metro company. He began his political career in the 1980s, by becoming an unofficial trade unionist representing the bus drivers of the Caracas Metro system. He was also employed as a bodyguard for José Vicente Rangel during Rangel's unsuccessful 1983 presidential campaign.[9][17] In the early 1990s, he joined MBR-200 and campaigned for the release of Hugo Chávez when Chávez was jailed for his role in the 1992 Venezuelan coup d'état attempts.[9] In the late 1990s, Maduro was instrumental in founding the Movement of the Fifth Republic, which supported Hugo Chávez in his run for president in 1998.[11]
To clarify, a free market does not allow a monopoly because it suppresses competition, but a capitalist system does not necessarily have restrictions on monopolies.
>>70895325
Well, punishment isn't a very good reinforcer of behavior
>>70895581
I don't agree, but thanks for contributing.
>>70888228
Hey retard, they have. In various tribes and nomadic bands since the dawn of humanity there's been groups where there's no personal, but communal, ownership of food, housing, and possessions. Coincidentally those tribes never had a great material culture save a few stone knives and wooden spears and never developed civilization, and in some cases not even agriculture and obviously no high technology. social stratification is what led to you typing on a computer in English in America. some people are simple more competent and would utilize resources for the greater good/advancement. The tragedy of the commons results from no one/everyone having ownership and therefore no responsibility,
>muh citations
seriously you can do your own research but from the amazon the the great plains to africa to australia and presumably prehistoric europe and asia SOME tribes had a comunistic lifestyle, and they almost always one average fared worse than ones with some sore of hierarchy or at least "property rights" do act as a display of wealth and therefore fitness. Also communism is for insecure incompetent losers who've given up all hope of rising themselves above their peers and would rather level the playing field under the guise of social justice. Communism is incompatible with advancement; ESPECIALLY if it isn't voulentary
Well?
I'm still waiting for your counter-argument mr. Know-it-all red bastard
>>70888228
Social classes are a spontaneusly emerging phenomenon in a classless society. And such a society can only be created as a result of a societal collapse, until order is restored.
>>70896067
So you understand then that it is an unachievable and broken system. Because that is essentially what you are saying.
>>70895319
We need to fucking dissolve that shit now.
Kill it before the UNASUL cancer spreads
>>70896333
>>70896426
To give him credit, at least he worked at something.
Our ex-president was a complete useless mofo that never worked in his life.
>1 post by this ID
>189 posts in a b8 thread
>at top of catalog
holy shit /pol/ aykm?
>>70897109
Still though that shit is comical. Like fucking Bernie if he was born south of the border
>>70897111
OP has posted 10 times dumbass. The "1 post by this ID" you saw was just from seeing the thread on page 1. When you mouse over IDs on page 1 it only counts posts visible on page 1 not the whole thread
>>70895609
>Pure communism and pure capitalism live on opposite ends of an axis labeled "market freedom"
red vs blue
>>70888228
Guess what OP?
Equality has no basis in reality. Some people are stronger than other, some are smarter, some work harder, some are more attractive, some are more athletic, some people have talents.
Class is natural. Even in Communism there is still the peasants, and those that pull the strings and tell them what to do. That will never change. The state cannot be run by peasants, or nothing gets done.
All communism is is an artificial system based on authoritarianism, fear and propaganda. Man will always revert to human nature and the laws of nature.
You are right though, the west is headed far left, and it will not be pretty.
This is truly masterful bait, OP. Truly.
I liked the part where you said that any system with a governing class isn't communist. Way to rule out all possible systems.
>>70888228
Listen, retard OP... "Real communism" is the use of psychological manipulation and blatant lies to divide and conquer a people. Classless society is one of those lies. And every instance of communism that has ever been tried was a 100% legit instance of the form.
The point of the mousetrap is not to feed mice, but to kill them. The cheese is a ruse. You can't get your eyes off of the fucking cheese for long enough to understand the apparatus that is presenting it.
>>70892837
To be fair the mega autist level libertarians do make that argument from time to time but most sane people simply admit that while capitalism has its flaws it is better to try and distribute power than give it all to the government.
>>70898386
>mega autist level libertarians do make that argument
Do they?
The argument I usually see is
>The free market has never been tried!
not
>Capitalism has never been tried!
>>70888228
The problem with society is not classes. Classes are fine, the issue is contrary to historical popular belief the class you belong in is not hereditary.
>>70888228
>Communism is supposed to create a classless society, & so far there haven't been any classless societies.
And at what part in the evolution of fucking man has this been ever fucking achieved. Better yet what about in fucking nature. These things that you fucking bitch about has been a fucking practice of man for thousands of years. Even in the fucking animal kingdom any animal that lives in a fucking community or herd mentality will always have that one fucking animal being the Alpha in charge of the group. Horses, wolves, and chimps have practice this very basic concept of leadership in the pact and if you believe that we as humans can somehow write off evolutionary traits such as ambition, greed, jealousy, and etc then you are a fucking retard of massive proportions who is living in a fucking fantasy. The only way to achieve your fucking dream is to kill off any emotional response that will somehow endanger your fucking so called utopia. You would have to kill the very fucking fabric of human nature which is individualism because not all hold the same values hence why some of us are on fucking /pol/ while others are on fucking tumblr. Sorry but I am not going to lobotomise my fucking self all because you fucking fail in todays society. The very day you try to enforce your retarded dream is the very day that I will fucking murder you without a speck of sorrow or anything towards you because, you my dumb fucking friend is a parasite who has traded their self dignity to a fantasy, their intellect for idiocy, and finally their selfness for a fucking lie.
>Real Communism hasnt truly been tried because it was rushed & wasn't ready to be tried, but the day for it to be enforced is approaching for the U.S.
The fact you have to enforce it shows that you will literally have to set up a class that is allowed to go gun down and enforce your toxicity to non conformers shows that you are a contradicting loser who just wants to achieve something since you suck irl
>>70888228
This is bait but whatever.
Simple answer, pack animals rely on social strata in their societies. Its natural for their to be roles in society, communism will never work because it fails to realize that people don't wanna be equal. They want to be on top of each other.
>>70888228
>My ideology is supposed to be perfect therefore if it ever doesn't work then it's not real communism
>>70888228
Maybe communism is a fucking stupid idea if there have been so many attempts , all of which failed, and none of which fit the ultra fedora tipper definition of 'true communism'
Maybe you're a fucking idiot for thinking a failed flawed idea that requires all sorts of mental gymnastics to justify, and maybe you should grow the fuck up and join the rest of us in the way the world really is. How's that for an answer, fucktard?
>>70900312
>Because of state Capitalism 1% controls more than 50% of the world
>There's at least 4 houses for each homeless in the world
>Enough food to end starvation but not everyone can pay for it so goes into the trash
Failing i don't say...but it's nature is fuckin ridiculous.
>>70903963
>Implying homeless people deserve houses
Some people aren't fit to survive. Subsidizing poverty only makes us weaker as a society.
>>70891335
>7% meme
You commie sympathizers all get your bullshit 'facts' from the same anus, it's funny.
>>70888228
I don't give a fuck. Every single attempt - EVERY SINGLE ONE - resulted in the same thing, which was total disaster. That's evidence enough for me. Better dead than red, motherfucker.
Old fag here, im 38. I was taught from childhood until adulthood that this shit was stupid as fuck, and the death toll, bread lines and general suffering is clear to see if you care to look at history.
Do we not teach 20th century history anymore?
>>70888228
GLORIOUS LEADER IS LIVE STREAMING RIGHT NOW AND HE LAUNCHED MISSILES MID STREAM >>70902114
>>70888228
>My magical utopian realm where everything just work has never been tried
