Pathfinder General /pfg/
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Old thread >>43924192
Does an NPC singling a player out instead of addressing the group really encourage roleplaying more? I've been struggling with that and it's something that I heard when I watched that one popular D&D twitch channel the other day.
>>43931179
Linking back to this for any other ideas, also adding that it's an on-foot charge and not mounted. Something like Minotaur Charge, but without needing to be a Minotaur to get it.
>>43931469
>you will never have distant Winter Wolf ancestry
>you will never get to hear the story of how your lineage's progenitors met
>you will never gain a cold-infused bite attack when angry
>>43931565
Depends on the NPC, really.
I'd want a flirty bar-maid or gang member to single out one PC, but if we're dealing with a king or noble making a declaration than it should be towards the group.
But yes, I've generally found NPCs singling out PCs to encourage roleplay more than the NPC addressing the group. Just remember to let everyone have their turn to talk.
Why is it Onispawn get Alter Self instead of Enlarge Person or Enlarge Self or something like that when they keep getting described like they're big things in small skin?
>>43931680
Because oni are all shapeshifters.
Which are the better monsters to have on your side in a war, /pfg/ - Giants or Dragons?
>>43931680
Because alter self is exactly as you deacribed in, when something very large is put into a small skin.
Enlarge person just makes you bigger.
>>43931680
Because, being Outsiders and not Humanoids, Enlarge Person doesn't work on them and Enlarge Self isn't a thing.
>>43931741
Dragons can fly, cast spells, and are rich as fuck.
>>43931741
Dragons fulfill basically the same role as attack choppers, so them.
>>43931741
Dragons, it's how Choral earned his title and formed Brevoy.
You know what disappoints me? There aren't any legitimate kingdoms ruled by dragons. Hermea is ruled by Mengkare sure, but that's not a kingdom so much as it is a eugenics project.
Where are the dragon cults? Blue Dragon Empires? Royal lineages with draconic heritage?
>>43931741
Giants are more populous than dragons, but weaker.
I'd say I'd have to know where I was conducting the war, and the relative populations of each.
>>43931854
The fact that there apparently aren't any means the dragons are acting just usual.
That, or Paizo can't into political intrigue done by a colossal firebreathing lizard
>>43931854
>dragon cults
Kobolds. IF there were a kobold empire, it would probably be ruled by one or more dragons, and likely also have a council of those half-dragon kobolds that were mentioned Inner Sea Races. I bet it'd do a number to help with their racial insecurities and need to over compensate too, though it wouldn't necessarily make them nice.
>>43931889
>That, or Paizo can't into political intrigue done by a colossal firebreathing lizard
How hard can it be? Dragons are vain, greedy creatures with power and authority that can pass said power and authority through easily identifiable bloodlines.
They're pretty much kings without kingdoms already, just install them to a throne and watch the fun.
In fact where ARE the kings in Avistan? How many proper hereditary kingdoms are there really in Golarion? Everything's either a happy council or elected, and the few kingdoms (empires, really) I can name don't do anything.
>>43931996
Remember, a lot of Paizo are weird crazy leftists, so a kingdom would conflict with their slap-happy democracy is great viewpoint.
They're like what crazy republicans think regular slightly leftist people are like.
>>43931854
A dragon empire consisting of the River Kingdoms and Brevoy would be pretty awesome, maybe throw in Iobaria too.
Better yet, have dragon kingdoms in Casmaron.
Vast expanses of flat grasslands is PERFECT for dragons.
>>43932106
>he makes everyone build cities in the corners of his realm so they can all watch him fly around because he has an ego bigger then Kanye's head
>>43932088
What frustrates me is you can never point this out to Paizo because they *do* have quite a few hereditary monarchies in Golarion, but the stickler there is they're either people Paizo never expands on, are kingdoms never featured in APs, or evil.
Shit, things would be a whole lot more interesting if they threw in a proper 1300 AD France or England into the setting.
>>43932088
You could always just democratically elect a dragon, and besides. Who wouldn't vote for one of them?
>>43932143
>His kingdom is the exact size needed where he can be in any corner of it within 24 hours
That would be a pretty effective policy, actually. How far can a dragon fly in 24 hours? That'd be a fairly sizable kingdom methinks.
>>43932194
>who wouldn't vote for a dragon?
People who know better. As we all know, to elect your leaders is to cut a deal with them - "in exchange for X, Y, and Z, you get to enforce or even MAKE the laws I live under, and I don't do anything about that unless you break the contract."
>>43932232
>How far can a dragon fly in 24 hours?
A Great Wyrm can fly 500 feet in 6 seconds, or 5000 feet in a minute.
In 24 hours a Great Wyrm can fly 1,137 miles, give or take.
This means a Great Wyrm's dominion would almost be the size of continental Europe.
>>43932329
Not too shabby for a glorified winged lizard king
>>43932329
>Mengkare is holding back so hard it hurts
>>43932329
It'd be even further than that when you realize the run action isn't actually limited to moving across the ground and that creatures with a fly speed can "run" through the air at four times their fly speed.
So, double that size.
>>43932429
That takes a lot of effort to travel though.
>>43931854
Tian-Xia has a nation ruled by Dragons.
>>43932194
>Dunkelzahn
>Elected President of the United Canadian and American States.
>>43932329
Dividing the response time to 12 hours means the dragon's kingdom would *only* be double the size of France.
>>43932568
Said dragon king could also put a portal in his palace that connects to one in every major city, meaning that he could get somewhere in an even shorter amount of time, whether 24 or 12 hours long.
>>43932625
Teleportation is something you can't design a normal setting around at all. You just have to pretend it doesn't happen until the players or assassins use it.
For the dragon travel time, assuming he flies in a straight line, there's the dragon-only spell Fly Like An Arrow from Dragon #308. So he can move at 40 times his fly speed. Assume he can buy immunity to fatigue, he can keep that up for 12 hours or 24 hours or however long you like with Extend Spell. That's 12 hours of moving at 9,600 feet per round, meaning 96,000 feet per minute or 1,090.9 miles per hour. That's a total radius of 13,090.9092 miles for a 12-hour flight.
I need to sideline my players, who are in Korvosa, for a short amount of time before advancing the story.
I'm just kind of tapped for ideas and modules to pillage from since I've been running an urban game immediately prior to this and used a lot of my good content on that one.
So I need some cool urban things for me to throw at a low-level party.
>>43932671
To put this into perspective. The circumference of Earth is a little less than 24,901 miles. A dragon can get to literally anywhere in the world in less than a day via his natural flight plus one spell.
Mengkare could Golarion if he wanted.
>>43932649
It could be a major thing for a group of players to look for.
Maybe they need to smuggle something from one city to another, and need to portal because they'de end up detected otherwise.
>>43932765
Well, keep in mind that spell requires movement in a straight line. Although curvature of the planet is reasonable to ignore on most scales the game operates at, for discussions about traveling around the planet its curvature can't be ignored.
That said, it seems like you can stop and start moving multiple times during the spell's duration, so it can still be accomplished in a ridiculously fast time.
>>43932625
Portals? Why not their spawn? The dragon-king of a land the size of France and Iberia would certainly have a selection of mates, and dragon dukes would certainly help with response times.
Fuck, I'm now imagining the Byzantine Empire with draconic Themes.
>>43932765
>>43932356
Maybe he doesn't want to spread himself too thin, and is focusing on one single area that he can micromanage constantly.
>>43932836
Is there any actual reason to think curvature of the planet is relevant? But yes, you could just spend 1% of your time or less reorienting then going back on your way.
>>43932856
My DM's ancient dragon empire contains a hefty amount of Latin names but that might just be because names are hard (I can relate).
>>43932800
Yes but you can't think of the economy or mass transportation that creates, just like you can't think about an epic dragon ruling half the large cities of the world because it knows Greater Teleport.
>>43932933
Why?
>>43932867
>we're all Sims of a cosmic being who loves rpgs and architecture
>>43932867
This.
A kingdom the size of England or France would be perfect for a dragon to rule since they could go from getting a missive of unrest to dealing with the uppity noble in less than 6 hours.
Or hell, go the way of Italy and have city-states ruled by dragons, who can micromanage trade and optimize income that way.
>>43931610
That's what the race creator is for. I ended up making a Half-Winter Wolf template actually because somebody had a kid with Greta and wanted to play that kid later on.
>>43933500
Wouldn't the Wulfkin from Bloodforge do the same thing?
>>43931610
There are Wulfkin in Bloodforge.
>>43933532
I'm not familiar with Bloodforge at all, actually downloading it now. Looks interesting.
>>43933500
Isn't Greta running on 52 PB? I remember her attributes are insane.
Find the right mate for Greta and that kid's going to be powerful as hell.
>>43933677
Just ignore the art except dat ass.
>>43933692
>52PB
Sounds about minimum for a martial build
>>43933692
Are you using actual point buy or something weird?
>>43933899
Assuming she doesn't get any bonuses to attributes, Greta is sitting on 54 PB for her spread, which is 18-14-18-13-15-14.
The wolf's got quite a pedigree.
Hey /pfg/, I made this Nascent Demon Lord with the intent of being a BBEG. The troubles I'm having are, of course, determing CR and balancing. I think I messed up with themes, though, because now they don't really seem like they'd be interested in being a BBEG. I'm trying to go for a cult kind of thing where the cultists are trying to pull the Lord's true form into the Material Plane and possibly fuck shit up.
>>43933692
>>43933943
>Breeding Greta because her genetic assets mean she makes for a good bloodline
That seems lewd.
>>43933973
Can you tell us a bit more about them?
>>43933943
>>43933692
Greta isn't a human and doesn't use pointbuy for her stats. That only applies for races with no racial hit dice.
>>43933973
Anyone strong enough to be a nascent demon lord should be strong enough to manage interplanar travel without needing a whole cult to do it for them (and for that matter, it shouldn't be very hard for the cult to come across two scroll of plane shift). To avoid straining what believability for what would trouble a creature that powerful, I'd recommend changing the cult's goal to something like graduating their master to true demon lord status.
Anyway, also >>43934062.
>>43934062
Mechanically or narratively?
>>43934084
Okay, cool. That gives them a bit more of a reason to be a BBEG. I was only kind of working on that the Paladin rolled that they were bestowed a terrible truth and I was going to link that to the Lord, but wasn't sure how.
>>43934144
both, preferrably.
>>43933943
>>43934025
>>43934081
Not quite. The baseline Winter Wolf, which all of the Howlings NPCs are based off of, have an attribute lineup of 20/13/18/9/13/10. No using the rules from Savage Species in order to determine the attribute penalties and bonuses, that leads to the following:
>+10 Strength, +2 Dexterity, +8 Constitution, -2 Intelligence, +2 Wisdom
If you apply these stats to Greta, and then work out her ability scores from there, you can easily see that she's actually got the standard NPC line of 8/12/10/15/13/14. In other words, she's a 15-point-buy character, and is actually WEAKER than most normal winter wolves. Her best attributes that are innately-hers and not racially-granted are, strangely enough, her Intelligence and her Charisma. So she's more attractive, more forceful, and smarter than your average Winter Wolf, but slightly-less physically powerful and no tougher than one.
That being said, her Winter Wolf race still makes her an extremely viable option for breeding if you want a strong humanoid child, especially if you make something like a Paladin or the like. Just note that technically Greta is one of the runts of the litter, so to speak.
>>43934155
All right. Narratively, she's a succubus-type demon (haha, originality I know) whose portfolio follows lust murder and betrayal between lovers. She's currently under Nocticula (for obvious reasons) and even filled an Obedience profile for her worshipers.
Mechanically, I'm probably going to drop her HD to compensate for ability strength since I only want her to be CR 23 at the most. I did end up making some custom abilities to fit her flavor, but am total willing to tone them down for the sake of balance since I probably made her too powerful for CR 23. Stat-wise, she's 34-32-28-24-24-32 and has a unique Scythe as a weapon.
Guys, I want to use Path of War, but I have no experience with maneuver martials. What are common problems and mistakes? Should I just throw away vanilla martials? What to do with Paladins, Bards, etc?
>>43934240
I should also note that her stats are totally fudged. I just compared between Nocticula and Maphistal and downgraded them to be about between them.
>>43934318
>>43934240
If my descriptions are shit, I could just paste the profile directly. I formatted it as d20pfsrd's bestiary.
>>43934268
As a player? You shouldn't have much issue building a workable initiator-Whatever you want to pick should work fine unless you went out of your way to pick the very worst options at every point.
As a DM? When using maneuvers, favor the ones that inflict secondary effects/counters over the straight damage powerups, as it can sometimes end very easily killing a player with no fault of his own.
Any advice on making a gunsmoke mystic?
The GM has said that I can make it use any mental stat as it's initiation mod depending on how I fluff up my magic so I'm thinking of making an Engineering-happy elf with a shotgun and a high int.
/pfg/ I have a question regarding the Radiance House Occultist.
Say I take a level in fuck I don't know Pact Bound Sadist which uses wisdom as its binding stat and I put the rest in binder, which do I use as my binding stat? I'd want to say I could use one or the other depending on which is higher or I use wisdom because I got that stat to binding first, but I'm uncertain which is correct.
>>43934414
As soon as you have the money on hand, make a Coat Pistol. Since you'll have Sleight of Hand capped out anyways it's a good way to make certain you have a backup weapon.
Remember when you get into various stances, flat damage boosts tend to be better.
Make certain you have a weapon that can strike long distances, even if it's not very good. A rifle is good for that sort of thing. While I've found that sniping is rarely used, it's IMPORTANT when it does get used.
Make sure to pick up the discipline Focus feat - All firearms count as discipline weapons for your discipline weapons, so it can give said weapons an impressive and much needed boost.
>>43934171
>Greta is the unappreciated runt of a very large litter
>She gets very flustered at signs of affection, even though she's the one that initiated the relationship.
How can one girl be so moe?
>>43934171
>Greta is weaker than the average writer wolf
>She's also smarter, wiser and more beautiful than the average winter wolf
>>43934638
She doesn't look anything like the Simpsons or the Three Stooges, what are you talking about?
>>43934694
It's an anime thing, denoting a character (often woman) who is adorable or cute for reasons hard to explain.
In this case, Greta is moe, or cute, for the reasons anon listed previously.
>>43934501
Thanks. The firearms availability is going to be Guns Everywhere, which will be nice for getting access to advanced firearms like the Double Barrel Shotgun.
I'm not 100% sure how strikes WORK with scatter weapons. Simply for balance I'm guessing you only do the strike itself on a single guy in the cone and the other guys just get hit with collateral damage.
>>43934758
>It's a Stooges thing, denoting a character (often male) who is considered buffoonish or arrogant for reasons hard to explain.
>In this case, Greta is Moe, or Curly, for the reasons anon listed previously
I don't get it.
>>43934848
Curly is cute! CUTE!
>>43934826
For that question, you're going to have to ask a DSP dev. My own mystic uses a rifle in lieu of anything else.
>>43934848
>Three Stooges in Pathfinder
I'd watch it.
>>43934826
IIRC there was a specific question about that several threads back.
One of the DSP guys said the strike was against one person, the rest of the attack was as normal.
I might be misremembering that second bit, but the strike itself is definitely against only one person.
>>43934956
Yeah, I'll have to hope one turns up so I can ask I have a couple of questions.
The other being 'What happens to the Gunsmoke Mystic's Gunsmithing in a Guns Everywhere campaign? As the feat doesn't do anything at that level of guns (Hence why the Gunslinger replaces it with earlier access to gun training)
>>43934978
Thanks. I figured, simply for balance reasons but it's nice to have some backup for that thought.
>>43934978
Wasn't it just that they don't interact?
>>43935035
Honestly I think I'd be fine with just not getting the feat, because gunsmoke mystic is already amazing. Maybe replace it with a bonus item creation feat.
>>43934268
Big things: as neat as the system is, it's imperfect. There are low-level damage issues and a couple disciplines that are overtuned.
The first thing I would do is take any strike that deals bonus damage and reduce it by 2d6 until 4th level. Then by 1d6 until 6th level. This isn't a perfect mix but it should be alright to keep them closer to expected damage values (it'll change how people pick early strikes, though, and make a couple worthless. Just pick other ones in those cases).
The second thing I would do is take a look at the discipline lists. Don't avoid Path of War Expanded becaue it's in playtesting; it's had a lot more thorough a playtest and the disciplines are better balanced.
The disciplines to avoid from PoW 1 are these three (noted by the developers as being overtuned and to be errata'd or reworked, depending).
>Black Seraph - does more damage than maneuvers normally do especially against Good creatures
>Broken Blade - tried to be an unarmed discipline, ended up being the "does tons of attacks for tons of damage" discipline.
>Primal Fury - tried to be a "frenzied attacks" discipline, ended up being the ubercharger discipline.
And from a personal standpoint, I would remove the Battle Dragon's Stance stance from Thrashing Dragon. It causes Dex-based TWFers to do the most damage on full attacks of anything PoW (especially when combined with the Dragon Fury prestige class), which feels like it conflicts with the whole idea of maneuvers.
>>43935868
The next thing is classes. Don't remove any classes, although encourage the PoW ones. Path of War Expanded has archetypes that give limited initating (a 1-6 progression) to many of the 1pp classes, as well as new abilities and cool stuff. The Martial Training feats help give maneuvers to casters if they want them, and there are theurge PrCs. The game functions fine, although no one should be playing a monk or rogue in this game. Fighter is, astonishingly, great. A Myrmidon (PoW archetype) Lore Warden Martial Master Fighter with the Weapon Master's Handbook stuff is pretty close to the platonic ideal of tier 3 - shit-tons of skill points, useful things in and out of combat, lots of options other than just attacking. At that point, it's less a "fighter" and more like if you took "career adventurer" and made it a class.
Also, I'd houserule the Weapon Group Adaptation feat to count as Weapon Training for the stuff from the Weapon Master's Handbook that has it as a prerequisite.
In any case, I wish you the best of luck with the game, and I hope the group enjoys it.
>>43931854
Well, there's always Triaxus. It's pretty much Dragonville.
>>43935868
>>Broken Blade - tried to be an unarmed discipline, ended up being the "does tons of attacks for tons of damage" discipline.
Go Kenshiro or go home.
>>43935868
Ignore this guy, he has no fucking clue what he's doing.
>>43936029
If you cant provide better advice, your words are as empty as your head.
>>43936099
>your words are as empty as your soul.
FTFY
I'm playing an occultist. Are there any good ways for me to get access to initiating other than taking the martial training feat? Can I take that feat more than once to get access to more than one discipline with it?
Would your character play at a posh casino that's literally run by devils? More importantly, would your character play at a posh casino that's literally run by devilsbefore stopping to read the fine print?
>>43936224
>Inquisitor of Asmodeus
He's probably just ask if the big guy had any missions waiting.
>>43936029
I mean, am I wrong? This is a mix of my own opinions and both developer words from these threads and other forums and the general feeling of lots of people, summed up into a pair of posts.
I don't speak for everyone (just myself), but if you agree on specific points, I'd be happy to have a discussion with you on it.
>>43936224
Yes. He's smart enough to know better, but he's also smart enough to go in riding another person who's "donating" any souls that may need to be offered up.
>>43936224
My character would indeed enjoy an excursion to a Devil-owned Casino, because they're duty bound by their very nature to not cheat at the games. She would, however, read the fine print THOROUGHLY before starting.
I took linguistics and I'm going to get some fucking use out of it, dammit!
>>43936224
My character would totally play at a posh casino run by devils. She would first massively buff her skill check to make sense of the fine print, though.
>>43936165
We don't have any support for occult classes at this time. Martial training is it, and no you can't get more than one discipline.
Would it possible to play a Jojo-esqe character using the spiritualist class?
>>43936244
That's an interesting idea that I hadn't thought about. If they had any work for him it would probably be to go collect on some debts that some slouch skipped out on- but I someone would have to be really good to be able to get out of the casino with debts unpaid.
>>43936256
Even if it never comes down to risking souls, you get a nice room and room service free of charge for as long as you're staying. If your character has brought cannon fodder of that sort though, he's probably going to be frequently pestered to trade his fellow in for some more chips.
>>43936268
>>43936278
The catch on the fine print isn't even that you're at risk of losing your soul (that's in the regular print but only happens for certain "all-or-nothing" games), it's that every time you lose a game it summons another devil into the material plane. The power of the devil summoned depends on the amount that was wagered.
>>43936371
Spiritualists are Sineaters and phantoms are Geists, fucking jojos get out reeeee.
But yeah, it's doable, eidolons are better at ORAing
>>43936250
You're saying to eliminate Strikes entirely until level 4, which is blatantly retarded. Low level doesn't matter, because nobody who's fucking sane actually starts games at less than 3. Level 1-3 is "Fresh peasant from his village" tier, with 3 just starting to break out of it. Trying to say that something has balance issues there is like saying it has balance issues at level 20, both are irrelevant because they don't actually matter.
Black Seraph, Broken Blade, and Primal Fury are all fine to use currently. None of them do anything that's that drastically better than normal characters, aside from Broken Blade allowing you to not be completely immobile while doing damage. Charger damage has always, and will always, be enough to one-round anything it hits, PoW or not. That's how it is.
TWF is shit to begin with. Letting it get a time that it works, and at high levels too, doesn't do anything wrong. Nobody gives a shit about your opinion.
The actual issues with disciplines are that a lot of them, namely the PoW 1 disciplines, don't really DO anything. Steel Serpent is an entire chapter of useless shit that does no real effects, fails to actually be sneaky in any real way, fails at poison, and the only thing worth it in the entire thing is the Constrict stance. Veiled Moon is the movement discipline, yet Shattered Mirror does it better, and so does anything with Charging, or Elemental Flux. All of them do it better.
Golden Lion is an abortion and isn't useful for anyone. You're playing a martial, not a bard. None of the things it gets are ever worth using over other options, because none of them do anything good enough to merit using. Their utility is shitty, their movement helping stuff doesn't go far enough, and their buffs are outdone by classes that SHOULD actually be doing buffs. Black Seraph is, if anything, actually pretty bad due to the whole fear/mind effecting immunity thing, or the fact that almost nothing a typical party fights will be Good.
>>43936406
>due to the whole fear/mind effecting immunity thing
If you're going for a BS intimidation build, it behooves you to pick up Black Seraph Style. Fixes the entire issue by itself.
>>43936464
At level 11+, far after it becomes an issue, and they still get bonuses against you.
>>43936499
So? Not everything should work on everybody, and you can still dish out serious hurt using Black Seraph even against a target that hasn't been demoralized. If you're really bent out of shape about it, take a one or two level dip into Master of Many Styles and waive the prereqs.
>>43936539
That doesn't work, man.
>>43936574
I'm not gonna get into that here.
Regardless, you (or the other anon, if you're not the same person) are blowing it out of proportion. They're usable. Subpar, but usable, even viable and definitely fun if done correctly.
But this is smacking too much of the "fighter can contribute" debate at this point, so what's say we leave it there?
Hey guys.
I'm a completely new DM, and I'd like to start off my career with an Adventure Path.
My group's already familiar with Rise of the Runelords and Wrath of the Righteous.
So what other APs would you recommend for a new GM?
Also, tips on GMing Pathfinder period would be much appreciated.
>>43936647
Rise of the Runelords is a good introduction to the game - very standard, very by the book, but fun nonetheless. If you understand that AP, you're well on your way.
If you feel like involving high technology, I'd recommend Iron Gods. If you want something a bit more Classic, try Giantslayer (though, admittedly, that AP is almost exclusively combat). If you like weird storytelling, try Reign of Winter. Carrion Crown is also excellent if you like undead and a semi-horror setting (Pathfinder can't do real horror all that well).
Stay away from Kingmaker, Second Darkness, and that one with all the pirates. They all do something rather horrible to the players, either in spurts or throughout the campaign.
>>43936738
Carrion Crown is more mystery/investigation than horror.
>>43936118
Thanks mate.
>>43934268
>>43935868
>>43936250
If I might weigh in here, there are known issues with the first Path of War. How much of an issue these things are is still a much debated topic, but suffice it to say there is work to be done, and it will be done as soon as PoW:E is finished.
Some complaints we've had are about low level damage. There are several fixes: reducing damage on strikes is one option, as is increasing the Hit Points of your monsters or simply using more monsters as there really aren't any low level AoE options in Path of War. Even still, this might not actually be a problem depending on how you run your games.
Some disciplines are on the strong side: Broken Blade, Primal Fury and some of Thrashing Dragon's stuff are notable in this case.
Some Disciplines are a bit weak: Steel Serpent is lacking damage, especially ability score damage, and Veiled Moon's teleports are outclassed by some of PoW:E's teleport maneuvers, despite Veiled Moon being "the teleport discipline."
The system largely functions fine, and tends to hold at about equivalent levels of utility and efficacy as classes like the Alchemist, Magus, Inquisitor, Bard and Barbarian.
It works better with PoW:E's playtest material added, which helps fill some holes and missing niches from the original book. This includes archetypes and PrCs for people who want to play things like Fighter, Rogue or Paladin.
You can run PoW and PoW:E as is and have a lot of fun doing it. But if you have concerns, us devs are usually around to help give advice and suggestions.
>>43931469
What're some good feats to improve an animal companion? Or should I just look into taking a level of Hunter eventually?
Alongside that, are there any feats that can improve perception aside from something like Alertness?
No 3rd Party content as of now.
>>43936738
But one of the members of my group has already ran Rise of the Runelords...
>>43936996
Evolved Companion is pretty important; it requires charisma 13, but it can greatly expand the options you get in terms of companion versatility. you'll also want your companion to take the Narrow Frame feat.
>>43937013
I know. I said that if you understand that one you'll have a good grip on typical play. Play one of the other ones I recommended.
>>43936981
>Some Disciplines are a bit weak: Steel Serpent is lacking damage, especially ability score damage, and Veiled Moon's teleports are outclassed by some of PoW:E's teleport maneuvers, despite Veiled Moon being "the teleport discipline."
What ones teleport better than Veiled Moon?
Also: Could I get an answer to these Gunsmoke Mystic related questions if you have time? Thank you.
>>43935035
>>43934826
>>43937046
>CHA 13
Welp. There's still that Companion Boon perk I guess. Thanks for the suggestion on Narrow Frame though, that looks pretty handy.
>>43937113
Shattered Mirror has some Medium and Long range teleports, which are longer range than pretty much all Veiled Moon's 'ports and Eternal Guardian has a few counters that allow lots of teleporting for a round, potentially beating out Veiled Moon for "number of teleports per round."
>>43935035
We didn't write anything specifically to replace Gunsmithing because Advanced and Modern Firearms are optional rulesets and we don't typically have the page space available to deal with those. So RAW, it does nothing. RAI, you could probably replace it with a bonus combat feat or something of similar power.
>>43934826
Strikes don't interact with scatter weapons at all because "DEAR GOD WHY?!?!"
Reasonable RAI: the strike's effect only applies to a single target.
Want to set a game in the modern day, want to the players to investigate cryptids and ghosts and other beasts
What would happen if they saw the mothman (for example)?
Would their minds start flaying?
>>43937208
>Strikes don't interact with scatter weapons at all because "DEAR GOD WHY?!?!"
Sorry about that. Mostly really liked the idea of using a shotgun so I ran into the issue unexpectedly. Thanks for the info.
>>43937268
If thats what you want, then Pathfinder isn't the system to run it in
>>43937268
So, Call of Cthulhu or Delta Green?
>>43936981
Let's not forget though that "Lol DC 13" Save-or-mild-annoyance abilities are quick to be ignored come level 4-6, when you get (whether through haste, BAB, rapid-shot or other factors) more than one attack.
While at level 1-2 it's true that maneuvers were maybe inflicting too much damage, if they don't GROW to return to what they're a little later on, they're basically going to be obsolete and shitty.
The worst parts of several (think piercing thunder for example) disciplines is
>this is exactly the previous 1-3 maneuvers, except scaled up slightly because now it's level 7
Shit that DOES work well long-term were the no-saves (which are apparently being removed), such as the "on hit, single-turn as-if-staggered" effects that bypass the myriad of immunities everything ends up having later on, and isn't tied to wasting your turn on a low DC save-or that's nowhere near the gamechanger an AoE debilitator spell of similar level would do.
The "when you reach IL X, it goes up a die/grade/whatever" was a good addition, not quite seen enough in some of the lower level techs.
>>43937379
>The "when you reach IL X, it goes up a die/grade/whatever" was a good addition, not quite seen enough in some of the lower level techs.
Isn't scaling only seen in the stances? There should be more of that.
I've been considering houseruling maneuver DC to 1/2 IL, to solve some of this.
>>43937208
Honestly, "not at all" is a no-fun-allowed way to do it.
Reduce the damage, sure. Divide across several targets? Fucking excellent. "Only one guy gets the full brunt of it in the cone"? Worst case scenario do that.
But "no, just fire six fucking times and kill everything in the room, you can't use a standard action to add 4d6 or a slow with this gun cone instead" is probably the worst way you could do this. Especially when so much of the damage troubles people speak of come from "strikes worthless just full attack".
Look at what happens with the alternatives...
>>43937433
would be a good fit to strikes, solving both ends of many problems, would it not?
>>43936224
How is this any different than a normal casino?
Hey /pfg/.
Back again. Still working on my DSP+SoP only Pathfinder campaign, here's my campaign document thus far:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1-Rupt67gZJnpV6J_1b4NmA7EVDEJYBSMB8Rz_OlCLHk/edit?usp=sharing
and here's a thread where I'm looking for feedback and ideas
>>43937446
What do you think, and can do you have any suggestions?
>>43937465
I can get them not wanting to change it so late into development (especially since PoW 1 didn't do that) but I'm houseruling that. It helps the archetypes a lot too.
>>43934268
>Should I just throw away vanilla martials?
More or less, yes. They're worth using for specific multiclassing builds or whatever.
Note, though, that there are reasonably good archetypes now for the base martials that swap in PoW stuff. Most of them also increase the class to tier 3 or so equivalent, like the myrmidon fighter, which gets disciplines and deeds on top of keeping bonus feats and other stuff.
>>43937433
>I've been considering houseruling maneuver DC to 1/2 IL, to solve some of this.
So instead of 10 + maneuver level + modifier you use 10+1/2IL+modifier?
>>43936981
What is your thoughts about Solar Wind?
>>43937680
Yeah, like with class features or supernatural abilities. Maybe 10 + ceil(1/2 IL) so it goes up at the same speed as maneuvers would.
>>43937693
ceil?
do you mean half rounded up?
My group allows 2 level gap between character. Since I'm new to the group, I'll be 2 level behind everyone. Is this going to becomes a big problem?
>>43937717
Yes, that's shorthand for rounded up.
>>43937725
What's the level of the party?
>>43937725
Yes, so play as a wizard and kill everyone in their sleep so they are forced to roll up new characters lower than you.
>>43937739
By whom?
I'm used to seeing "Ceiling()" refer to choosing the highest of a series of numbers, and simply "roundup()" for rounding up.
>>43937725
>everyone not at the same level
Just asking for trouble tbqh
>>43937776
https://docs.python.org/2/library/math.html
>>43937776
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Floor_and_ceiling_functions
By people who code and do math for a living. ceil() and ceiling() functions generally round to the next integer.
>>43937693
>rounding up a single thing in a game where everything else is rounded down
What the lump? That's gross.
>>43937846
Spell progressions are rounded up too.
>>43937823
Huh. Fair enough.
I should have known that, I guess. I don't recall that particular function ever coming up, oddly enough.
>>43937776
No, that's max().
>>43937861
But they're not presented as a formula.
>>43937752
Current the highest is level 4. So I'll be level 2. They are mostly Tier 3/4 (some with multiclass) though.
I'm pure Tier 2.
>>43937866
Yeah. You got me.
I haven't written any real software in a year and a half (since I got laid off from my last software job), and apparently I'm forgetting things.
>>43937885
So present the save DC based on IL as a table, not a formula.
>>43937903
Ugh. that's just a waste of space.
Give he formula. If you're not rounding down, just say so.
Post a character you've made and want to play, but haven't gotten to yet.
>>43938672
Some sort of CG Wizard/Fighter/EK watchman who obsesses on hunting down paladins that he deems to be abusing their God given powers.
>>43938672
a qlippoth tiefling cleric of Rovagug who is very focused on spreading his faith, and of killing demons.
>>43938672
LE investigator from an impoverished noble family. Trying to restore his family's wealth and fame through his law practice as a prosecutor and his adventuring career. His law practice is straight as an arrow but utterly merciless as he sincerely believes everyone's guilty of SOMETHING. Absolutely hates being indebted to others after watching what being a debtor did to his father, so he is extremely loyal to one and only one member of the party at the outset because he's trying to square a debt he owes them. Gradually, however, hanging out with the better-aligned members of the party has him question the evil elements of his life and philosophy and begin a long journey towards alignment shift.
>>43938672
half-gnoll psychic warrior with specializing in /thicken skin/, or, as I like to call it, floof. (gotta capitalize on those fluffy material/olfactory displays)
>>43938672
A Duelist whose secndary weapon is his magic trumpet
>>43938672
Double Spear Daevic
They just don't have the feats to spare for access to 3rd level stances from Piercing Thunder
If a magic item increases my intelligence do I get more skills?
>>43938908
Githyanki Magus, hopping planes/travelling to different planets, operating as an advanced scout to find good targets for a full-blown githyanki invasion, or for githyanki raids.
Maybe part way down the line he goes rogue and hooks up with a Githzerai Aurora Soul Mystic or one of those punchy-punch soulknives.
>>43939114
No, I don't think so.
>>43939114
After 24h, yes, you do.
>>43939114
Yes, you do. Magic items that grant an INT bonus always give the same skill, so you can't take the item off and put it back on again to get a new skill.
>>43939114
Intelligence items let you pick a number of skills equal to the number of +2s on the item (so 1 for +2, 2 for a +4, etc) when they're created that are maxed out as long as you've been wearing your magic hat for at least 24 hours
>>43939161
>>43939176
>>43939202
Oh, I never knew this. Thanks for correcting me, then
>>43938672
taldan duelist (rondolero fighter) who killed a high ranking noble in a duel after having sex with his wife and is now on the run from the noble's family
>>43939257
I'd really like to see where that character goes. That already sounds interesting
>>43939202
"When they're created?"
I thought you go to to choose the first time you put it on. Are you sure?
>>43939320
It's when they're made, pretty certain. I just had our spherecaster build me one for my Cryptic.
>>43939320
>This intricate gold headband is decorated with several small blue and deep purple gemstones. The headband grants the wearer an
enhancement bonus to Intelligence of +2, +4, or +6. Treat this as a temporary ability bonus for the rst 24 hours the headband is worn. A headband of vast intelligence has one skill associated with it per +2 bonus it grants. After being worn for 24 hours, the headband grants a number of skill ranks in those skills equal to the wearer’s total Hit Dice. These ranks do not stack with the ranks a creature already possesses. /These skills are chosen when the headband is created./ If no skill is listed, the headband is assumed to grant skill ranks in randomly determined Knowledge skills.
>>43939370
Huh. Sure enough.
>>43939293
ya i thought so, his name was victarion (Slick Vic) and i had his character thought out so he was super impulsive, addicted to sex and addicted to gambling.
Only played one session with Slick Vic ; ;
>>43939516
>Slick Vic
Hoo boy, that had to have been fun
>>43939545
it was really fun it killed me that that game never went anywhere but ill just keep him in my back pocket for a different one
>>43932684
I saw a sad no answer anon.
Have a phase spider or some other flicker happy beast steal their MacGuffin.
I'm doing research on a gish slaver/bounty hunter as an evil PC that can mesh well in a neutral/good party without dumb bullshit. I'm looking into what I can feasibly do on a character that bashes enemies in melee with non lethal combat while casting spells that allow me to inhibit and capture enemies when possible. I'd also like to make taxidermist creations of exotic creatures like a hunter aficionado, for things to do outside of enslaving people.
One avenue I'm pursuing is placing geass or compulsions on individuals that in exchange for not killing them, they cannot attempt to harm me or owe me a favor, if I cannot just straight up enslave them. The logic being that instead of killing an assassin, they are free to go in exchange for being compelled to do some task I ask them in the future, such as taking out a nobleman who is causing me problems. Or perhaps getting a contract devil in my service, and enemies can either agree to the terms of service proposed after being defeated instead of whatever consequences occur after being beaten by our group.
Core concept is to use sapping enchanted weapons and debuff or nonlethal/merciful magic in battle, to effectively be able to capture and transport enemies alive, whether they are a dangerous criminal or a rare animal. I know there is a cleric domain that is straight up called slavery but I want to see what my options are. Any high level wizard can just planar bind, cast dominate, or put to sleep then tie up whoever they want, but that doesn't feel like a concept.
>>43939711
sounds interesting ,being a bad-touch cleric can be fun af
I'm going to be GM'ing a Gestalt game with Path of War and Spheres of Power. Anything I should concern myself with going in?
>>43939711
Alchemist. Specifically, vivisectionist archetype. You get gishing via mutagens and extracts, vivisectionist gives you full sneak attack, and you can pump the nonlethal damage through the roof with the feats: Sap Master, Bludgeoner, Cornugon Smash, Power Attack and Hurtful. You might even want to grab Martial Weapon Proficiency with the Earthbreaker, but you'd probably be fine just 2-handing a heavy mace or a morningstar.
>>43940098
Item crafting.
If a monster says it has "Spellcasting like an Xth level class Y" would advancing it with class Y further its existing spellcasting or give it a second spellcasting level?
>>43940131
My players have already taken all the crafting feats.
>>43940161
Are you the player or GM?
If you're the GM?
Absolutely. Makes perfect sense.
If you're a player? Pretty sure there's no official ruling on that, you'll have to ask your GM.
>>43939697
They don't have a macguffin to steal, currently they're just trying to escort a girl who's on the run to the safety of an abandoned house they know of, which is across the city. Once she's there, the city is sort of in turmoil, but there's nothing for the players to actually do. The Captain of the Guard they were working for needs a few days to go over some papers and stuff they brought her, and after that there's the big dungeon crawl they're going to be heading into.
So I want to pad the time out before that dungeon, just because I need the time to set up the Shoanti (and other minority) violence in town that incites it.
Something tells me it's a bad idea, but part of me is thinking of spinning a new plot thread into the web, the kind that lays foundations now but doesn't come to fruition until much, much later. I already have a few of those going on, so I'm sure I'll just end up keeping my players confused for a long, long time.
>>43940161
It should probably further advance its spellcasting for that class, but its non-spellcasting class features would be based on its actually level (so for example its bloodline powers if it has sorcerer levels in addition to "spellcasting like an Xth level sorcerer"). Of course, in the end, it comes down to GM's decision, as there's no official answer. That seems to make more sense and be less complex that dealing with two sets of spells for the same class.
Do I actually need to be using an associated weapon to use a discipline? I can't find any mention of it anywhere.
Scarlet Throne says
>He must either have his off-hand empty, or be wielding a weapon two-handed to use this discipline.
So can I use Scarlet Throne unarmed?
>>43940256
You do not need to use a discipline weapon. You just gain +2 to your maneuvers Save DC if you do use one.
Yes you can use Scarlet Throne unarmed.
>>43940214
>>43940255
I was thinking yeah, it advances the spellcasting but the other features are low.
Sadly I'm the GM, the only game in which I'm allowed to play monsters I'd have to play a CR 2 or under and the GM really prefers taking a template (or a Drow Noble style race) rather than a monster.
>>43940310
Where is this +2 mentioned? I thought that was only with discipline focus?
>>43940310
Sweet, so there's actually a reason to use unarmed over tri-bladed katars with broken blade or something. Thanks.
>>43939072
Protip, the levels of maneuver you can access are determined by your initiator level not your levels in initiator classes. Non initiator classes count for half and there's a trait that allows you to increase your initiator level by two, up to your hit dice. This means that if you take four levels in Daevic and one level in an initiator class you can dive straight into third level stances and maneuvers. It's a pretty good time.
>>43940355
Discipline Focus gives a different bonus type. There's an entire Systems and Use section to Path of War that you should read.
>>43940110
I'll add that to the list of things to look into, thanks. A character concept for the archer magus archtype focusing on delivering nonlethal damage with snowball is what initially sparked my interest in a viable nonlethal damage fighter character. I haven't played an alchemist and don't know how their magic systems work, but that sounds like it might be better than going warpriest or magus depending on how flexible the effects I can get.
>>43940505
Alchemist is basically mostly buffs. That's the gist of it. You can also use your mutagen to get bonus dex, strength, or con that stacks with enhancement bonuses.
Is a +12 to my main touch attack spell good for level 15? What should I increase it to and how?
>>43939711
Ask your GM if you can take a trait with the a similar effect as "Blade of Mercy" to reflect on your character being good at taking prisoners as a slaver.
>>43940628
"Blade of Get the Fuck Over Here, I'm Stuffing You in my Bag of Holding With an O2 Canister"
>>43940310
Wait, so I can use Broken Blade with a weapon? I can use Iron Tortoise without a shield? What about with Piercing Thunder or Scarlet Throne?
>>43939072
>Daevic
what table top system are you talking about?
>>43940741
This one. Akashic Mysteries class.
>>43940364
>>43940737
Not quite. "Maneuvers from this discipline require the initiator to be using discipline weapons or be unarmed. Use of discipline-specific weapons with Broken Blade inflict an additional 2 points of damage."
It's a specific wording in the discipline description.
>>43940737
Read the entries for the disciplines. Some are more specific and say you NEED a certain weapon to use it.
>>43940766
You can use katars with broken blade. It's in the close weapon category and is thus a discipline weapon.
(I'm not both the people you replied to)
>>43940737
Not really. That discipline still requires a discipline weapon. Good news is the Sansetsukon is a discipline weapon with a 1d10 damage die and a 19-20 crit range.
>>43937725
Your GM is an idiot and has no idea how to run the system well.
>>43937892
Everyone has double your health.
>>43939711
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/golden-legion-s-stayed-blade
Is a good one, if you don't mind using lethal damage.
>>43928262
I recommend stealing what you feel is appropriate from my PoW PrC version of the dragoon: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Q_Aiv4Ola9CrzoW4v5i1aYZ8tgYAqp38_SautyXi-hE/edit
I especially recommend taking the jump language, because as-is the DC for a high jump is 4x higher than that of an equivalent long jump.
>>43941135
Huh, I must have missed that when I was building. Would have saved me from accidentally killing a bunch of guys.
The party wizard has been casting infernal healing without proper components this whole time. He keeps saying that with a spell component pouch you just assume he has every component without a listed cost. Of course, you don't just happen upon devil's blood every day. How should I punish him?
>>43941326
RAW your wizard is completely right, though. If you're houseruling it otherwise, then you should have already told him that before, and definitely shouldn't punish him for it now.
>>43941326
Thems the rules bro, quit whining.
If you wanna stop him, have some people sunder his spell component pouch.
>>43941326
Well, he's not wrong. If the components aren't expensive (AKA they don't have a listed cost to them) it is assumed that your pouch has the components necessary for any of your prepared spells. A low-CR devil is easy enough for wizards to summon up, stab until they get sent back to Hell, and then their blood stoppered and sold in magic shops.
Don't bother punishing unless it's something worse like "he's been casting it every day on the entire Paladin Order of the city" or something.
>>43941326
Don't. The cost is negligible for a reason. Spell component pouches are assumed to be refilled any time you visit a town's magic shop; do you know how easy it is to get devil blood? A level 1 sorcerer or adept can do it by summoning a fiendish creature, commanding it to bleed into a cup, and then selling the blood.
>>43941326
Most GMs ignore components unless the spell has explicit XP/GP requirements.
>>43941326
The party fighter has been swinging his sword without proper warm-ups and stretching this whole time. He keeps saying that with a fighter's upbringing you just assume his muscles are ready at all times. Of course, you don't just happen to have time for crossfit every day. How should I punish him?
So I am reading the 5E. It looks like more or less Pathfinder. They took almost everything hahah wtf
>>43941401
No, 5e actually learned from a number of PF's blunders.
You can actually MOVE as a martial class without losing most of your attacks, feats are a hell of a lot better, you don't need to become a magical christmas tree as you level, magic isn't as off its fucking meds as PF magic, and generally it's a much more evenhanded playing experience, speaking as someone who does both systems.
PF does "epic" better and has more customization and content, but 5e is the more competently designed system overall, I think.
>>43941401
And changed just enough that Paizo can't call plagiarism. Yup.
Of course, keep in mind that Pathfinder stole its entire core from DnD 3.5, so it's not like they could complain, even if they wanted to.
>>43941401
That's some weakass bait senpai. 5e and Pathfinder are almost about as different as 4e was to 5e, maybe moreso.It's also a better game for martials AND casters both, and feats aren't as shit either.
>>43941355
>>43941363
>>43941367
>>43941374
>>43941375
Mind you, the other possible cost for it is VERY expensive. Unholy Water.
While RAW that's correct I don't think he's entirely wrong in considering it cheesy as it strongly implies that devil blood shouldn't be easy to get and should likely have a real cost.
>>43941440
Feats had better not be as shit, considering how few there are and how infrequently you get them.
>>43941451
But devil blood is incredibly easy to get.
>>43941374
>>43941459
They're kinda more impact.
It's a lot less "You need a feat to do this" and a lot more "You can do that. Do you have the feat? You get a bonus to doing that!"
>>43941488
*more LOW impact
Fug I'm tired.
>>43941451
It sounds like your arguement really only amounts to "I think it's unfair to use this spell so I'm going to pretend it's hard to get the component in my games that is otherwise clearly listed as easy to get."
Which, I mean, that's okay. It's called a house rule, lots of folks have them. Just be sure to tell your players about them before the game starts.
>>43940942
I knew my GM has low system mastery (he read monster stats block wrong several time). Just hope he would improves overtime. Good GM doesn't grow on tree in one day.
>>43940954
not like I'll get kill in one shotted by a lucky crits so it should be fine right?
>>43941135
An interesting feat which ensures that in a party I am not the one to kill an enemy. The way non lethal damage works is that my teammates can deal lethal damage lowering it's current hp, and the enemy faints once the nonlethal damage dealt surpasses their current hp. So against an enemy with 100 hp, my three party members can do 75 lethal and I can do 25 nonlethal and the enemy will become staggered. A single point of damage will cause it to fall unconscious. Assuming I deal my nonlethal before any other members attack, provided my party member doesn't one shot the enemy, to kill it would require out damaging me. If they don't out damage my initial blow it should be impossible for my opponent to die. If they DO out damage my nonlethal hit I'll be out of luck, since the feat only affects my lethal blows but the nonlethal damage will cause any hurt enemy to faint.
If I do exactly their current hp the enemy will become staggered, so they can still take actions, but all it would take is another hit by me to knock them unconscious.
Provided I make it so I don't get penalties for doing nonlethal damage, are there even scenarios where as long as my damage is competitive the enemy can still accidentally die? Not counting a literal save or die spell. Also I should look up what is immune to nonlethal damage shouldn't I?
>>43941374
Wouldn't the blood goes "poof" when the spell end?
When Summon Monster die/leave, they don't left anything.
>>43941521
Depends on your class and the other classes in the party.
Also, if they're level 4 and you're level 2, then yes, you can die in one hit.
>>43941537
The creature's presence is the effect of the spell. The creature's presence ends when the spell ends, but as soon as the blood leaves the creature it's no longer part of that creature.
>>43941537
Weirdly enough, no. Summoning effects only send the creature in question away when the spell ends - things that were disconnected from the creature remain.
A good example is that a vampire could actually feed from a summoned monster, and will still be fed when the thing vanishes.
>>43941536
DMs can be dicks about nonlethal.
They take nonlethal and then fall off a cliff, or into the water, or a henchman/underling who always hated them goes for a coup, etc.
>>43941429
Yeah true. I am just at the beginning looking classes. Sorcerer stuff for example complete copy/pasted from PF. Still something strange why would they include deities like Ghaunadaur as an entity that would give powers to a Warlock? So Warlocks can also get their powers from a divine source? This is weird to me.
I love Ghaunadaur though, an outcast drow male warlock of him, just wandering in Underdark trying to flood Lolthite cities with ooze and shit would be an awesome game.
>>43941562
Are you saying I can keeps Summon Grig, ask it to drop Bow and Shortsword and have infinite amount of weapons at level 3?
>>43941488
Well, you basically NEED a feat if you want to be a good 2 Hander user. It's almost non-optional.
>>43941601
Equipment summoned as part of the creature summon is considered part of the creature by the spell explicitly.
>>43941601
It's not essentially infinite, since you're wasting your spell slot for the summon, which is effectively far more valuable than a bow and shortsword.
But yeah, if you wanted to.
>>43941374
Does blood stay from a summoned creature? You'd think it would vanish when the creature itself vanishes.
>>43941615
Show me where it says that.
>>43941621
I really wouldn't think so, actually. Like another anon said - it's no longer part of the creature, so when the creature stops being there...
>>43941620
>>43941615
It's a gray area.
>>43941401
The backgrounds are cool though
Infernal healing is basically the only source of arcane healing. Infernal healing isn't even a problem because cure light wounds is a 750 gp wand that's laughably easy to obtain and use. Infernal healing is more efficient and effective compared to cure light wounds but CLW can heal damage dealt by silver and good weapons while infernal can't.
Not to mention he should be using a wand of it instead, which also invalidates the rarity of the spell components aspect. ALSO not to mention if you attempted to punish him he could just take the eschew components feat because fuck you he wants to cast the spell.
>>43941634
Uh... hmm. I can't seem to find it. I must be remembering from back in 3.5, as the Pathfinder conjuration stuff doesn't mention it.
>Summoning: A summoning spell instantly brings a creature or object to a place you designate. When the spell ends or is dispelled, a summoned creature is instantly sent back to where it came from, but a summoned object is not sent back unless the spell description specifically indicates this. A summoned creature also goes away if it is killed or if its hit points drop to 0 or lower, but it is not really dead. It takes 24 hours for the creature to reform, during which time it can’t be summoned again.
>>43941647
I'd honestly say that you'd have the blood vanish with it. Or even have it vanish when the blood leaves it in the first place.
As you said, it's a grey area but I'd lean 'if you can't keep it's weapons, you likely can't keep it's blood'
>>43941709
And then people pointed out that you can keep their weapons.
So, it appears that particular argument has been shot.
>>43941697
>SUMMON MONSTER I
>School conjuration (summoning) [see text]
>>43941709
but summoned objects are not sent back unless the spell description specifically indicates this. if you're conjuring a creature, you can take whatever objects you wish (like pints of blood) and as long as those aren't on the creature's person at the end of the spell's duration, they are no longer part of the creature.
>>43941709
Good players would abuse that too though.
>sell weapons while summon is active
>receive gold
>leave
>summons disappear
>items disappear
Nyoho~
>>43941590
Well... Yes. PF Sorcerer is almost completely copy/pasted from D&D. MOST of early Pathfinder is; its later stuff is what Paizo actually wrote. Everything in core? Fluff and crunch near-identical to D&D, because they took it from D&D 3.5's OGL materials. You're confusing the sources, anon.
Warlocks can get their powers from many things, not just divine. Fey, demons, devils, aliens, weirder stuff... In 3.5 possible power origins for sorcerers and warlocks /both/ include gods, as well as stuff like bloodline magic, radioactive fallout from mage wars, luck and fate, and the like. Sorcerers also had genetic engineering (which players had access to, thinking about it).
Planar binding operates differently from summoning as well guys. Summoning and killing a demon doesn't do shit, while binding it then killing it actually kills it, as far as that creature can actually be killed. Summoning a creature with a sick weapon and taking it leaves you vulnerable to the creature returning under its own power to reclaim its shit.
The drop of blood component is mentioned for the arcane side, which uses a component pouch or eschews it. However, since cleric/oracles are divine casters capable of using the spell unholy water is mentioned as an option.
>>43941764
It's also a good plot hook for the DM to use, double bonus.
>>43941786
>all that sweet gear you just bought vanishes!
>the shopkeeper refuses to give a refund!
>>43941681
>should be using a wand of it, which also invalidates the rarity of the spell component
Not really, since for a wand 50x the normal material component must be supplied for item creation. It just shifts the burden of collection from one person to another, and if it's a costly component (it's not normally, but supposing someone houseruled differently for some reason) that extra cost would be passed onto the buyer. That's why wands and potions and scrolls of spells with expensive material components cost extra- the cost for the component is added to the cost of the item itself.
>he could just take the eschew components feat because fuck you he wants to cast the spell
Again, assuming the DM has for whatever reason made the component costly, Eschew Materials won't allow him to waive the cost.
For what it's worth, I think it's a silly idea to add an expensive component to Infernal Healing, but that's the context of this argument.
>>43941697
It's funny that the fluff described in the rules no longer matches the fluff for summoning spells, since Paizo had the brilliant idea of declaring that summon spells just conjure the creature from your imagination, meaning it's not a real one from a real place at all... And also making Augmented Summoning (also jokingly known as "Improved Imagination" in my group now) pretty silly too.
>>43941802
>Paizo had the brilliant idea of declaring that summon spells just conjure the creature from your imagination
When'd that happen? Can you name a book (or section of core) where it says that?
