Are Christians allowed to practice magic?
Define "magic". What does "witch" even mean in hebrew within the context of Exodus? I feel like modern paganism / Wicca has really changed how people conceptualize "witch" and "magic".
There's plenty of neat stuff in Judaic and Gnostic mysticism, but most Christfags are too scared of muh demons to really look into those systems.
>>17157173
No,we aren't.
>magick
>magic is fantasy.
>>17157182
Magic or Magik (plural magics or magiks) is an ambient field of energy that pervades the world. It is stronger in some locations than others, but it is ever-present.
And the spirit of the Egyptians within them will be emptied out, and I will confound their counsel; and they will inquire of the idols and the sorcerers, and the mediums and the necromancers; Isaiah 19:3
Also, Crowley crucified a frog named Jesus Of Nazareth in the name of Thelema.
>>17156937
>>17157086
When it comes to "mysticism" you have to understand the boundaries of what is Holy and what is unholy.
>Men in the mode of goodness worship the demigods; those in the mode of passion worship the demons; and those in the mode of ignorance worship ghosts and spirits. BG 17:4
Even when worshipping saints and angels can turn to idolatry, as well as demigods in the mode of goodness, however in the Bhagavad Gita there is an even higher form than "goodness"
>But he said to me, “You must not do that! I am a fellow servant with you and your brothers the prophets, and with those who keep the words of this book. Worship God.” Rev 22:9
>>17157200
That's a new definition to me. If you buy into that OP, no one can "practice magic" you ARE magic.
>>17157204
Yeah, that bit from Isaiah is still an english translation.
English Standard, but KJV is quite different: "And the spirit of Egypt shall fail in the midst thereof; and I will destroy the counsel thereof: and they shall seek to the idols, and to the charmers, and to them that have familiar spirits, and to the wizards."
All of which dates it well past the Roman empire and probably after the conversion of the pagans.
But ok, let's continue to ignore the issue and throw more de-contextualized verses at the problem until it goes away.
Are Christians allowed to beat God at wrasslin?
>>17157241
Few forces are as potent as magic. It can even bring about the destruction of entire worlds. The forms of magic found in Azeroth derive from different, ever-present energies. The nature and uses of magic are vigorously debated, but the magnitude of what it can accomplish cannot be doubted.
Who cares.
It's not like they burn witches nowadays.
the bible says a lot of things, and it's in archaic hebrew so I doubt that you can absolutely apply any of it's messages using modernised celtic words
>>17157241
The translations give the same meaning.
>probably after the conversion of the pagans
>"Probably"
Part of belief in One God is to help the pagans cease their mode of worship of a lower idol, to expand their conscious to loving service of the Lord.
"Christians" don't practice Thelema, New Age, Masonry, and Occultism because they see the flaw in it. They don't need to cast pentagrams and summon "spirits" to help them get what they want.
Rather than trying to control matter, they let matter continue in its nature and appreciate it for what it is, rather than use it to manipulate an alternative scenario through magic
However, you can see Yoga and other mystical practices into Christianity, because life and religion are both mystical experiences.
>>17157273
wow that sounds like the biggest bollocks I've heard today
and most western occultists are christians, especially alchemists, because they consider god as more than a bearded sky wizard who gives you treats or coal depending if you were good or not so poof what a nice argument you've had
yeah but yoga is totally fine, it's not like yoga is literally a form of opening channels for hindu deities into your mind by their belief, yeah that's not heresy at all
>>17157286
>Western Occultists are Christians especially alchemist
Not when you decode where the magic comes from in the Bible. If you think Enochian magic and the tetragramaton are as "christian" as they come off you should really look into it but there are two Enochs in the Bible, and the one that comes from Cain, is actually Thoth/Enoch/Hermes of the Kybalion which is the base info of the occult organizations which are actually killing Christianity.
Of course God is more than a bearded wizard. And of course Yoga isn't summoning deities, it is about ceasing the fluctuations of the mind so as to be still in the Spirit as the observer around you, and not associate with the imperfect qualities of the mind.
>>17157312
yeah I'm sure they put stuff in a book that describes a religion to kill that religion, makes a whole lot of sense, just stop with writing world of darkness fanfictions
also strangely enough medieval grimoires and alchemists only made christianity have better influence, the thing that's actually killing christianity is liberalism and fedoras, not thoth of cain with his super sekkrit messages in the bible
it does seem like you just consider god and every biblical figure as characters in some comic, when they're rather concepts and aspects of the psyche from the "subconscious" or whatever you want to call it
mmmm no I'm pretty sure yoga is connecting to deities, which you know isn't necessarily a bad thing since they are benevolent and all that but still that's very far from christian
>>17157352
Thoth of Cain is where the magic of the fallen angels comes from. Those are the Archons, this is what people summon when they cast spells.
Tulpas are subconscious entities, and the "demons" magicians summon also are given authority in the casters subconscious as well as embody them.
It isn't about summoning deities, and not all of them are benevolent.
>This is the teaching of yoga. Yoga is the cessation of the fluctuations of the mind. When the fluctuations cease, the Spirit stands in its true identity as observer of the world, otherwise, the observer identifies with fluctuations of the mind.
Yoga is about the union between jivatman and Paramatman or, individual self to the highest self.
The lower deities are also mentioned to be inferior in the Bhagavad Gita
>Men of small intelligence worship the demigods, and their fruits are limited and temporary. Those who worship the demigods go to the planets of the demigods, but My devotees ultimately reach My supreme planet.
>>17157173
Probably not unless you're a baller like Solomon, or any of the prophets and god is just like
>yo bro, have this shit, it'll shoot out preprogrammed magic.
Way too much confusion though, what with old shit, not knowing whats true, not knowing how many things have been added/removed for political reasons, so with the whole forgiveness thing, you may as well take a risk and try it. If you really weren't allowed, big man would probably find a way to get it across.
>>17157375
>Solomon grew old, his wives turned his heart after other gods, and his heart was not fully devoted to the LORD his God, as the heart of David his father had been. Kings 11:4
Solomon dies praising the gods of his polytheistic wives.
>>17157365
jesus you really are living in some world of darkness fantasy setting, I'm gonna tell you now but there are no fallen angels, or archons, well archons did exist, they were ancient greek city state leaders, they have nothing to do with angels though, despite how cool their title sounds and looks when you're writing a fantasy setting, the bibles is just a set of rules for societies and describing why you should keep them with allegoric expressions of the world and human psyche, seeing anything else is just autism for bored teenagers
>bollocks written by americans
>especially california of all places
when it comes down to it hinduism is just a guide for living decently, but yoga isn't really just meditating while stretching your limbs, it's hindu religious practice, which again is not particularly christian
>>17157388
>harem and magic
>not living the life
He shoulda put the bitches on lockdown. Nigga had shit great and fucked it up. Though I guess that's what happens.
>>17157393
Nice try, I know I am being trolled though.
Fallen angels, Archons, use of magic, the fact that this is also passed down in the world to keep people in power, sounds about right.
It isn't just a book of rules, that isn't knowledge. It is meant for people to read it now and see how it corresponds to the present state of the world, and to help believers stay in faith during these times.
>Yoga isn't meditating or stretching your limbs
I didn't say that
Yoga Sutra
>This is the teaching of yoga. Yoga is the cessation of the fluctuations of the mind. When the fluctuations cease, the Spirit stands in its true identity as observer of the world, otherwise, the observer identifies with fluctuations of the mind
It isn't at face value "Christian" and it isn't face value at "Hindu" either, which isn't even a religion it is a word made up by people to describe the area people came from.
>>17157411
>Fallen angels, Archons, use of magic
mmm nah I'm the one who feels like being trolled, unless you're 14 or something you shouldn't go "lelele ur trolling" if someone tells you that fallen angels and magic doesn't actually exists, and the book about those is just a set of rules and allegories
there's plenty of occult and interesting things in the world mind you, but you don't need to try and force some fanfictions from the bible
you really wanna go into semantics? hinduism is the set of similar beliefs of people from india, by that sense christianity is just a set of beliefs that is most prevalent in western countries
also americans just butcher any esoteric practice that people find somewhat intriguing, just like how they did with feng shui, because mass amounts of people can't be bothered to learn about a foreign practice in detail, they just want some watered down localised and generalised version of it and that's what this is for
>>17157435
There is plenty of occult symbology everywhere.
They're more than allegories, the Bible is speculated by so-called Christians and by atheists, both of which take it at face value. If it were all "allegorical" it wouldn't hold such a high value to people who actually take the time to decode everything it is tell us.
>>17157461
that logic doesn't really hold though, the bible used symbols for it's allegories and then later occult groups started using them, not the other way around
> it wouldn't hold such a high value to people who actually take the time to decode everything it is tell us
dude, people hold at high value whatever the fuck they want, didn't bollocks conspiracy theories about cartoons and songs teach you that already? just because people bother to fuck around with something that doesn't add more value to it
but if you believe in angels and spells so vehemently then why don't you show me one, then I'll think about it, but so far all accounts point towards that it's a book written by humans for humans about human things more than 2000 years ago
Southern Baptists seem to be okay with Christian hoodoo in some parts. Read about psalm spells, candle magic, biblemancy, and the such.
Prayer is a from of meditative magic, as are offerings, sacrifices, the singing, and the symbols in church. It's widely based upon pagan rituals of magic anyhow.
>>17157173
I know a Buddhist Master saying displaying miraculous activities and doing tantra-mantra (magic) is the name of the Dharma (God / Truth) only a way of temporary selfish fulfillment.
>>17157509
in the name*
is only a way*
>>17157509
Buddhists are the same thing as christians, just less salty.
>>17157474
Symbols have been used forever, it wasn't until modern day we get the word "occultism" they had a different word for it back then.
>Why don't you show me one
Because you can't "see God" without opening yourself up to Him, that is like asking to see what the present is without taking the blindfold off
>>17157543
mm so what, I've got a symbol right here 8====0, wooo spooky
I'm fine with god though, he's my mate, I'm asking you to cast a spell, or I need to have some deep beliefs in you and your fantasy world to see the spell too? I'm not saying the bible has no relations with the world at all, I'd still consider myself an alchemist I just don't think you can make butts fall from the sky through fallen angels, or if you think otherwise then show it to me or I'll just think that you're some chuuni kiddo
>>17157569
That's right you don't have school today
>>17157576
well it's exam period and I got done with most of them so yeah, I have to go to uni like 3 times this month, doesn't really have anything to do with anything, now show me your spells lad I'm waiting
>>17157582
You say your an alchemist and tell me to cast a spell to prove to you it reals.
>>17157587
good job at summarising what I've said, why are you trying to deflect though, if you believe in casting spells and shit then it shouldn't be that hard
>>17157594
Just pointing out the contradiction
>there's plenty of occult and interesting things in the world mind you
>I'd still consider myself and alchemist
>Show me your spels
>>17157602
>If you believe in spells it shouldn't be that hard
If you already know it does, you don't need someone to do it for you
>>17157602
the world isn't black or white dude, it's not either you can cast pyroblast 3 times in a row or GOD DOESNT EXIST IN ANY FORM
I know people love extremities but the world isn't dramatic or anything, it's just normal, but most people still don't know much about it
believing in chuuni stuff like that is just stupid though, there ain't no angels and spells, it's the human's world here, everything is just human, and that's fine
>>17157624
>not believing in chuuni stuff
Lol, get a load of this loser. See you in your next, shittier life nerd. Gotta go buy new bandages and talismans.
>>17157624
God exists, and the world is black and the Spirit is white
>>17157629
fite me bitch imma mess u up
>>17157630
and hearts are cold?
>>17157630
>God exists
That's fine.
> and the world is black and the Spirit is white
It's generally darker shades of gray and generally lighter shades of gray at best.
>>17157635
>and hearts are cold?
Maybe for lizards. I dunno.
>>17157636
I mean that as in the goal of life is so simple, it is in the Spirit of God. The world, kinda like used toilet paper, especially when it comes to non-religious people making "points" about religion.
>>17157638
And there's no hope
That's what we're told
And we can't go back
It won't be the same
Forever changed
By the things we've seen, seen
>>17157173
Yessur.
Understand the witch statement refers more to their belief than their practice. Miracles, blessings (which technically Priest can perform) and the like are not forbidden, it's just how you go about it.
People who use such things to deceive others or generally just be malicious are the witches and warlocks spoken in negative. Someone who turns water into wine is just a guy turning water into wine. No harm, no foul. I think the general rule to avoid magic was meant to encourage avoiding where it can lead since most people aren't wise enough to be cautious.
You have people here saying without any clear guarantee that they're willing to do all sorts of things for the slightest point in the right direction. Imagine now what they'd do for someone who'd "guide" them down the path.
>>17157642
you sound pretty salty mate, the world aint that bad, get some hobbies and shit
>>17157643
Threads about to turn into emotional lyrics thread.
>>17157646
I was just having fun with the "world is black" comment
>>17157645
It's more than what it says
>>17157652
mm ye, it's a guy depressed about life, hey try traveling around a bit too, it's pretty nice when you're feeling down
>>17157657
Lol
>>17157661
>>17157624
>>17157629
What's chuuni?
Sounds like some gook shit.
>>17157682
Google, first result.
Sort out your slurs, gook refers largely to Koreans. You're looking for Nip.
>>17157682
Chuunibyou (中二病) is a derrogative colloquial term in the Japanese language used to describe a person which manifests delusional behavior, particularly thinking that one has special powers that no other person has. Originally a term used to pertain to children in the second year of middle school who act like adults, the term eventually evolved into a term generally used to describe delusional behavior in general.
>>17157312
Can you tell more about those two Enochs?
>>17157173
No, only for jews allowed, bye-bye!
Think the bible calls out anything even remotely like magic? probably burning for occasionaly checking the tarot.
can anybody cast firebolt yet ?
>>17157173
"Christians" probably aren't allowed to do magick, but the thing is, a lot of people calling themselves that and other things have. They were just people who were tired of being afraid of what is in their closets and opened the door. Many of the things having to do with the occult are amazing, like the role of Yeshuah in the Qabalah. He is one of the most amazing beings in the universe, one mostly unknown to the "Christians" out there. There is also the yod-heh-vav-heh being, who is the high god of this world. His name is unimportant because he is the current ruler, which makes him the gov'nr. No one can ignore him. There is so much more, but most has to do with the gematria and how words relate. It's a sacred mathematics, sacred geometry, and an understanding of the idea that "man is god" through "Yod-Shin" of Ish or man.
>>17157688
oh so... the majority of people on this board then?
right on
>>17157173
That was a biblical edi. originally it was thou shall not poison a with.
Moses and Jesus were magickians.
>>17157860
It is said that there was a Cabala of Seth (likened to Abel) and a Cabala of Cain, and out of Cain's Cabala grew the Babylonian Talmud
The figure of the tetragramaton isn't God when YHWH is supposedly the demiurge,
The magic system actually leads many into worship of fallen angels described in the Bible. The new age movement is actually assisted by the Jewish Cabalists and the Freemasons.
>>17157798
One Enoch (Book of Enoch) warns about the fallen angels, the other Enoch (Thoth) and the son of Cain, actually uses magic to operate with these beings the other Enoch (Holy) warns about.
One Enoch is the 7th from Adam, and the other Enoch is the Son of Cain.
>>17157173
Christians are allowed to suck my fat cock.
>>17157877
I am a Thelemite and a Qabalist, so now what.
>>17157877
I know about the Book of Enoch, where can I read info about how Thoth uses magic. It is kinda hard to search up pure unadultered information today.
>>17157878
Pretty sure they're actually not allowed to suck cocks.
>>17157893
I have spoken! My cock is open for business!
>>17157182
Your handwriting is too fucking sloppy.
>>17157877
YHWH is Jesus though. I don't know which fallen angels fanfiction that told you about YHWH as demiurge.
>>17157927
HWHY
Gnostic Christians look at Yahweh as Demiurge and know that Jesus and His real mission was to free us from the bondage of this(these) tyrant(s) that traces back to Sumeria.
>>17157173
how bout we all quit being faggots and not give a shit about religious commandments because ITS THE CURRENT YEAR and people can see whats right and wrong by now.
>>17157937
Gnostic Christian teachings sounds wrong.
In Deut. 10:17, we read:
For the LORD your God is God of gods and Lord of lords, the great God, mighty and awesome, who shows no partiality and accepts no bribes (Dt. 10:17).
Note: according to the OT Scripture, YHWH is not only God, but also Lord of lords. Yet in the NT we clearly read that Jesus is Lord of lords:
They will make war against the Lamb, but the Lamb will overcome them because he is Lord of lords and King of kings--and with him will be his called, chosen and faithful followers (Rev. 17:14).
Furthermore, the NT reveals that the King of kings and Lord of lords is God:
which God will bring about in his own time--God, the blessed and only Ruler, the King of kings and Lord of lords (1 Tim. 6:15).
Who then is the Lord of lords? The OT says YHWH is Lord of lords, but the NT claims the same for Jesus!
>>17157949
With the exception in OT "Yahweh" doesn't even translate to "Lord God Almighty" though the words Lord a decent amount of times reference God.
Yet again, the Bible was restored in Babylon. Makes sense why YHWH would be weaved into the Bible.
Either way, when you read YHWH as the Demiurge you begin to understand what Jesus was actually teachings us.
>>17157271
I bet you support gay marriage, heretic.
>>17157569
proofread, jesus christ
>>17157173
The miracles performed by Christ himself in the Bible would have been considered magic by many. I believe the key difference is that he was said to have been interacting with physical reality in an enlightened state and was simply willing things to happen whereas traditional magick involves ritualism. In other words Jesus was a natty wizard and other magick is the result of "cheating".
>>17157173
yes as we are to walk the earth we choose to to tread the path the silken adder or that of god
with all things comes a choice if you have a gun you choose to do good or evil
so yeah as long as your not a dick about
aka NO BLACK MAGIC
Plus the way of the white if much more powerful and is much less likely to run into a goddamn edge lord
>>17157173
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thaumaturgy
>>17157173
anyone who attends any church is subject to a spell cast by the one performing the ceremony
In all honesty, people who practice magic should be respected by Christians since wizards were technically the heroes in the story of Jesus' birth.
>>17161359
They weren't heroes they just gave Jesus material presents
>>17157969
>you begin to understand what Jesus was actually teachings us.
That your parents are assholes?
>>17157173
The New Testament and the Church have always been pretty clear. Prayer, meditation etc shouldn't be done with the intention of having mystical experiences, enlightenment or whatever, but out of a desire to be closer to God. Monasteries welcome visitors, go spend some time at one.
https://youtu.be/4ooIMvLx8NM
>>17157173
Whether or not they're "allowed" they certainly have done so.
>>17157250
Can god create a dick so big that even he can't deepthroat it?
>>17158134
Looks like Jesus would have too. He seems to have had a thing for naked boys.
http://biblehub.com/mark/14-51.htm
>>17157250
>>17161887
They were all witches in exodus. I think the scribe used the word witch to portray an extreme harlot. Now dont you suffer those,boy.
Not sure on what exactly qualifies as Magic, but the New Testament and rules for Christians is certainly different from the Old Testament and rules for Jews.
I think that the obvious answer is no, and no Christian would really want to practice magic. The only magic we desire is that which comes form God, which is through the Holy Spirit which is not magic in that sense of the word, but real.
>>17157182
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=noqAgNsAv6w
>>17157252
Magic isn't real
