Why do some people still deny 6.5 despite all the proofs?
>>25771208
>tfw these threads are still made
only 4 more days until one side wins. I don't even care what gen it is anymore
>>25771208
What, like mere coincidences, red and blue color themes, sun and moon themes throughout the entire series? Ok.
http://pokemon.gamespress.com/releases/1942/new-pokmon-games-announced-via-pokmon-direct
>>25771241
>Implying we'll get any information that proves or disproves a side
>>25771241
It's Gen 7, and a direct sequel to X & Y.
It'll prominently feature Pokemon from Gens 2, 4, and 5--and 7.
Between: X, Y, OR, AS, Sun, Moon; you'll be able to complete the Pokedex.
>>25771376
>What, like mere coincidences, red and blue color themes, sun and moon themes throughout the entire series?
The bad faith is strong with this one
>http://pokemon.gamespress.com/releases/1942/new-pokmon-games-announced-via-pokmon-direct
No one ever denied these were new games
New games =/= new gen
>All the proof
>Literally nothing but some Game Theory level fan speculation seeing hints in random ass details based on some super complicated, super grasping at straws mythology bullshit that can be made for any other legendary with enough time
>>25771241
>4 more days until one side wins.
You wish, Anon.
seriously.
Today I will remind them
>>25771387
>>25771392
N-NO I CAN BELIEVE
>>25771392
If we get new starters it is done. New region will be the cherry on the cake. Both have chances to be shown on 3rd or leak a week later. This fight will end moon, -ehm I mean soon.
>MUH patterns
There are no patterns anymore, 6.5fags. Get it through your skulls. People were trying to shoehorn Mega Mewtwo Y as a Mewthree when it was revealed, and those same fags were trying to make Sylveon a flying type.
New stuff is on the way. It only looks like the old stuff because it has the same hardware. There may be elements of gen 6 in story but it's still gen 7 and if you don't like that then you can Yokai Watch
>>25771417
>>25771429
This will go on and on for at least a while longer even if we have new starters and region, Anons. We will still have people claiming that the region is just somewhere below Kalos, or that there aren't any new mechanics shown yet. The people who believe that only mechancs = new gen will continue.
But even if it did silence, expect several months of spam threads going 'I told you so'
But then, this is assuming that they'll show starters or region this weekend.
>>25771429
It won't convince gen 6.5 fags. The fact that the new bird and Magearna have been revealed should be 100% nail in coffin for gen 6.5 for anyone with half a brain cell
>>25771429
I'm a gen 6 fag. I already know there are new Pokemon and a new region.
If everything else is the same as gen 6 it's still gen 6.
>>25771502
>>25771389
Holy Fuck you're retarded Im assuming you didn't click on the link. If so, here's the header:
>Newest Generation of Pokémon Core Series Games coming to Nintendo 3DS Late 2016
>>25771502
Everything else?
As in...?
Well we have the same turn-based battle system since the beginning, so I guess we are still on gen 1?
Get your act together anon. Even if the region is close to kalos as the other anon set as example gold/silver/crystal weren't gen 1,5. They were gen 2 even though they had gen 1 as post game. Same rule applies.
>>25771482
The winner has every right to act on their victory. It's not my problem if the others are sore losers.
>>25771649
>The winner has every right to act on their victory. It's not my problem if the others are sore losers.
Not saying they don't. Simply saying that we'll see those threads for ages to come to the point of it potentially annoying even those on their side.
But even then, this is an anonymous place. Despite all of the gloating, it means nothing since other people on the other side can just pretend they were on the winning side all along.
is the victory really that sweet when it is, in fact, directed at pretty much nobody? You might as well just be yelling at the clouds.
Granted, closure WOULD be nice to have.
R.I.P 6th generation of Pokémon
(2013-2016)...
>>25771696
Yeap I totally agree.
I was just saying that if they do who can blame them? Even though it is vain as fuck.
Let's not turn /vp in /ilovephilosophy.
;-)
What happens when the next set of two main series games comes out after Sun/Moon and has compatibility with them because PokeBank? Will it be Gen 6.75? Your definition of a generation is fucked if you think a new region and new Pokemon don't equal a new generation. Obviously the games will have more compatibility as the tech advances.
How in denial can you guys be?
Just accept it isnt a new gen already
>>25771208
please first define your understanding of the term "gen 6.5", ya asshole
>>25771208
Because Gold and Silver aren't Gen 1.5
It's going to be a sequel to Gen 6
It'll have all new Pokemon, though, so it's gen 7
Whey people don't understand this baffles me.
>>25772409
GSC had new mechanics
If SM has no new mechanics it's still gen 6
>>25772409
>>25772421
Gens are defined by graphisms
If it has the same as XY and ORAS, it's Gen 6
>>25772421
Each game has seperate mechanics within gens, what you mean is compatibility, and Gen 1-2 and XY-ORAS had only semi-compatibility? Are they half a gen?
>>25772421
>smogon definition
Yes, because they are so fucking smart and trustworthy. And they know sooooo much about the community outside their sheltered little existences.
They are literally a bunch of fags and you are a bigger fagoot for trusting their lame as fuck, unacceptably bad definition.
>>25772490
>Each game has seperate mechanics within gens
No. They have to share mechanics to battle with eachother.
>>25772687
Hmm, you know, the smogon definition doesn't define it that way, so either link to proof from you faggot overlords, or stop spewing your goalpost moving bullshit theories.
>>25772402
6.5 is a giant label with no concrete or agreed upon definitions. Gen 6 however is what has both of these. I think most the idea of "6.5" is how Youtubers started using it as part of "6th gen with new Pokémon", which would still be gen 6 because of how generations are primarily bound by mechanics and not necessarily the Pokémon.
>>25772687
So let me use my Eon Flute in XY, and why don't I just let Giratina follow me around Sinnoh for a bit. Sure would love to use Pokenav in XY, let me just do that. Just saying "Mechanics" is meaningless because that describes anything and everything in the game.
>>25772733
What the fuck are you memeing about, anon? I am dying of laughter at what this argument is trying to say
>>25772531
>>25772733
>"Smogon definition"
Literally what are you on about?
>>25772800
Are you the one arguing that vehicles are a mechanic related to anything but obvious minigames or something? Because A) it's a STORY THING, more or less, hence the latis. B) No overworld model for Giratina afaik. C) again, it's not a core mechanic. It's pretty much like day/night in that it doesn't do anything with actual battling.
I bet you're gonna say "muh Smogon arguments" as a way to discredit any argument because they use battles as a reason to say some "mechanics" aren't important for defining what are core mechanics and what are not. You don't even have any objective reasoning, it's like you believe VGCs or Nintendo format aren't actually battles. Your viewpoint itself is flawed, quit posting.
>>25772948
>A thing you can do in a game is not a mechanic of that game
You do realize what a mechanic is right?
I'm not even sure what you said that second paragraph or see how it has anything to do with the comment you replied to
>>25772808
>>25772828
>>25771528
It literally came from Smogon.
>>25772994
A mechanic is a mechanic, sure. However, it does not mean it has anything impactful to the generation; if it means anything like a mid-generation-split which has never been. Shared battle mechanics are one of the largest things to consider when defining "generation".
Rest was just assumptions about how this similar way of thinking resembled this "Unsolicited Smogon arguments???" anon.
>>25773059
And the people who were smarter to know this without looking it up some site? Yeah, all farm animals in one pen, that's what you're doing.
>>25771208
So two suns means Sun and MOON? Okay
also, not sure why you're pointing to the things on Zygarde's chest? I can literally say it has to do with ORAS or the same reason you did. Also, if you're using that, then I assume you're a retard who thinks since theres 2 pentagon slots that they must use them, but what about the white one?
TL;DR proves nothing
>>25773125
>implying believing a load of horse shit without someone feeding it to you first is a sign of intelligence
Jesus fuck anon, you do NOT want to admit to being that fucking retarded do you?
>>25773150
>two suns
X's screen is clearly the moon
X has a strong moon theme that you can notice in Me Charizard X (pic related, the official art links it to the moon)
>>25773150
>also, not sure why you're pointing to the things on Zygarde's chest? I can literally say it has to do with ORAS or the same reason you did.
ORAS colors are orange and sky blue?
I dont think so, Sun and Moon's are
You can be of bad faith, but dont push the denial too far
>>25773100
>Mechanic does not impact generation
>Mechanic defines generation
Pick one, I think the word you want to use is "Compatibility"
>>25771388
like you couldnt complete pokedex with XY and ORAS already. moron. obviously you will need teh new games to complete with the new pokemons.
>>25772465
So GSC are Gen 1 then? Literally the same Graphics just with colours and a change of Pokemon sprites
>>25773206
this, why so many people still fail to understand it, it's gen 6 only if you can still battle and trade like between XY and ORAS
>>25771208
The colors on Zygarde's chest matching the 4 version is actually a really cool point, though you could easily argue they're for Alpha Sapphire and Omega Ruby. But the thing about X being the moon is fucking retarded and anyone who posted in that thread believing in it is delusional. The moon isn't that fucking bright, they're clearly both suns, and either way it has no connection to the new games. Is Groudon connected to Sun version because it has Drought which calls out the sun? Fucking retards don't understand that there can be coincidences.
>>25773155
Well, you're believing it's not just something I knew, because it's fact. I think you could go many places and find that battle mechanics are expected to change when jumping to a new generation, not in in-between games such as remakes, or third games.
Show me all the fedora assumptions you want, but you really don't know. This wasn't even a confusion until right before S/M were announced, around the time leaks and speculation for a "gen 7" occurred.
>>25773206
Impacting to the games themselves, sure. As I said, though, battle mechanics are shared through their own generations and the games within that generation. This is still a fact, no games in the same generations have deviated it and for good purpose and as you said; compatibility.
>>25773202
Yup. Red orb has Orange in the Omega Symbol. Just like the only part on the sun logo is the Sun the rest is red. Im not in denial though, just using the same logic as believer fags. And literally, if you believe that the 2 Pentagons remaining are sun and moon then what the fuck is the white?
>>25773177
I just don't see it as a Moon, but if it is, fine, the games will share some connection but that doesn't mean it's gen 6.5
>>25773258
And no generation has introduced an entirely new pokemon mid gen, this is still a fact, no games in the same generation has deviated and for good purpose, as I said, compatibility.
The same argument can be used for both Pokemon and Mechanic argument. We already confirmed new pokemon and everytime we have gotten new pokemon, new mechanics are also introduced and we have nothing revealed so far that contradicts this assumption, so it's much more likely Gen 7 than 6.5
>>25773258
Wait, I didn't play gen 5 competitively or really remember it because I just felt so bored from the games, but what Battle mechanics changed from Gen 4 to 5?
>>25773372
Stop using "6.5" goddamn
Also nah we've seen B/W Kyurem and others. Anyone who thinks "but those aren't new" need to study how those weren't in B/W. Those where just an example.
But still, changing the subject because your reasoning was lmop, gj
>>25773394
Yes, Wish got a buff, some changes with sleep mechanics I think and such. Not pommet frites, but Bulbapedia lists a good notable chunk on it.
>>25773408
It can't be fully Gen 6 because of new pokemon, which means the games can't be fully compatible.
Forms don't count, it's not a completely new pokemon unless it has it's own Pokedex number
>>25773354
>And literally, if you believe that the 2 Pentagons remaining are sun and moon then what the fuck is the white?
Pokemon GO
>>25773465
>forms don't count because they aren't separated from other entries in a tool that is meant as a convenience for the player to identify various things and get a general summary of info on previously mentioned things.
Oh boy this argument again
1am going to bed, summary is
Retards believe that megas aren't new at all because if they were, in their definition of a generation it would make OR/AS a new generation despite everything else just because new things were introduced. It doesn't matter if it's actually something new, as long as it doesn't have its own separate entry, it's no different and therefore not new. Hoopa Unbound included.
This is what you be believing. Good night.
>>25773540
Smart people believe Megas aren't new pokemon because they aren't, they are new forms of existing pokemon, each individual pokemon has it's own pokedex number signifying it's individuality, GF only called Megas new pokemon for marketing.
>>25773644
megas and forms are literally no different from their original versions
>>25773660
Thanks for agreeing with what I said, Megas are just the same pokemon
>>25773671
megas are literally the same Pokémon as their original versions
there is no objective difference between these versions
Hoopa Unbound does not exist, it is just regular Hoopa if you think about it
>>25773707
This is what my point is, that new forms are not completely new pokemon and thus a new form does not mean new gen
>>25773725
Perhaps you're mixing me with someone that has a retarded view that is "New mons = new gen, no exceptions", because that is certainly not me. Sorry to confuse you, anon.
What do you think the region in Sun/Moon will be based on?
Vote here
http://strawpoll.me/7190942
>>25773754
You say you that but you are agreeing with my point for that argument sir, so who is the retard again?
>>25773725
>>25773754
OH WAIT LMAO
>>25773794
I guess that would be you then. Damn.
>>25773808
I make a point, you give an argument that helps said point, then say you don't agree with the point you just helped, then call me a retard.
You must be sleep deprived, so to bed anon
lmao
>>25771241
People will continue to make them to be annoying. Like that one Goodra fan.
THE FUCKING NARRATION OF THE FUCKING TRAILER SAYS 'A NEW GENERATION OF POKEMON'
NEW.
GENERATION. FAGGOT.
>>25775695
It really doesnt
Only some poorly translated sites have
>>25775695
So did ORAS' trailers
>>25773242
lmao, actual logic in a post and no one responds. clearly there isn't a real debate, people just want to argue shit. good post anon
>>25773258
>a fact
Except it isnt. The entire thing falls apart under scrutiny, the lines are incredibly blurred, and the goalpost are moved at will just to keep the shitty mechanics and compatibility argument alive.
Well guess what? They could add just a handful of pokemon and change no mechanics, and dollars to donuts it would be seen as a new gen. It would be a shitty move and no-one would deny it, but there is a very good chance people wouldn't care and they would label it gen 7.
On the other side, >muh compatibility, all it would take by your standards is a handful of abilities or moves getting tiny tweaks that break compatibility for it to be a new gen. But no-one else would care if there were no new pokemon. And the sad fact is, you already know this.
A handful of pokemon added would suck, but would be a new gen. A handful of move or ability changes and busted compatibility, not a new gen.
In an equal quantity, under equal circumstances, your definition crumbles into pieces.
It's pathetic.
lol denial
>>25773822
I was only playing the retard for you c:
>>25775792
Battle mechanics aren't the only things shared throughout a generation, anon. There's multiple things holding that up, multiple other things that matter.
>>25777326
Really now?
>>25771402
They can't make new pokemon for 2016 and not call it new generation.
Stupid people actually think that:
2010: New pokemon, new generation (5)
2013: New pokemon, new generation (6)
2016: New pokemon, continue of the last generation?
and then what?
2019: new pokemon - 7th genration? So there isn't a new generation from 2013 to 2019?
>>25775755
No they didn't. They said "a new world", and to be fair, it may as well have been a new world to Game Freak's target audience considering the fact that RS came out 14 years ago.
>>25778145
2002: New generation (3)
2006: New generation (4)
2006: New generation (4)
2010: New generation (5)
4 years
Gen 7 is coming in late 2017
>>25778150
Neither did they in SM trailer
Rewatch it, the word "generation" isnt even pronounced
>>25778245
Just look here (minute 1:52)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZjviZrT4p4
Here he sends a HEAVY CLUE that this is a NEW generation. He talks about the 2/3/4 generations and then talks about S/M as it's a new generation.
Clearly the treatment is to a generation and not to a sequel. even GF says it's a new generation.
>>25778345
You're just grasping at straws
This faggot >>25775695 implied the trailer clearly stated it was a new gen when it isnt the case
What you pointed out is but speculation, like everything in these threads
>>25778358
Why would they say "New era, new pokemon"?
The word "era" is their word for "generation". The word "World" is not a new generation.
>>25778238
Every other gap has been 3 years or less. Kill yourself.
>>25778079
Yeah, especially if that's your argument.
>>25778412
>every generations are like that, except the ones that arent
Is this really your argument?
>>25778896
No, his argument is that gen gaps have been 3 years before, and so its retarded to assume that every gen gap must be 4 years.
>>25777326
Hello again shifted goalposts.
>>25779493
And what do you mean isn't a shifted goalpost?
>>25779493
>>25779507
Let me guess "New Pokémon" which is actually moving the goalpost itself but okay!
ANOTHER
FUCKING
JOHTO
>>25779507
6.5 faglords literally hang everything on >muh mechanics and >muh compatibility, and my example just clearly demonstrated that under the exact same conditions, Pokemon would be considered a new gen but mechanics and compatibility wouldn't.
Then, out of literally nowhere, theres suddenly more conditions to make a gen! Ones that aren't even laid out for us to refute. What a fucking shock. Goalposts are on the back of a truck, heading out of state, jesus fucking christ.
>>25779530
"New Pokemon" was literally always the defining factor in a gen. No-one on the gen 7 side has moved from that position in the slightest. Only one side is moving the goalposts, and that is the side that is already confirmed to be losing the battle. We already have our new pokemon, your move faggot.
>>25779571
In what game were battle mechanics not shared throughout a generation?
It's not shifting the goalpost, you're the one doing that.
>>25771208
We've never had a half gen. We're not gonna start now.
>>25779598
Jesus motherfucking buttblasting christ.
I just literally made an example where YOUR conditions for defining a new gen would fail and NOT be a new gen, and you are trying to explain it away by saying that, what, it would be the same gen?
What are you saying you tremendous faggot? Explain in detail so I can rip your argument a new one.
>inb4 talking nonsense and hoping it all goes away
>>25779623
No you didn't specify any games, which you would need to just to backup your claims.
>>25779619
>muh patterns
>>25779642
If Gen six point five is confirmed, I'll put my Greninja Amiibo up my ass and webm it.
>>25771402
>new region
>new pokemon
>"B-BUT IF ITS REFERENCES GEN 6 ITS GEN 6.5 AND NOT GEN 7"
At what point does it even fucking matter?
>>25779660
"6.5" is a stupid label, stop using it
>>25771208
Because a "half generation" doesn't make any fucking sense. It's either still Gen 6, or it's Gen 7. Why on earth does labeling it as "gen 6.5" even matter? We already know it's a new region with new pokemon. Even if the games have a major focus on Zygarde, that doesn't change that this is the seventh time that a new region with new pokemon is introduced.
Undecidedfag here. GameFreak being this stingy with new information makes me question if it really is a new gen at all. XY reveal period was basically a constant rain of new info from the very first trailer right until the release. If they had an entire new gen at works, why wouldnt they at least show us the silouetttes of the new starters by now?
>>25771208
If Sun/Moon are Gen 6.5, then Johto is Gen 1.5.
>No new major battle mechanic changes
>continue the plot of gen 1 (Team Rocket)
>you go back to Kanto
>>25779720
Yes but
-Different consoles
-Different overworld and sprites
If SM has the same overworld as XY/ORAS and use the same models, it's Gen 6
>>25779695
I think "6.5" has just become a staple of what people believe S/M could only be, because it clearly introduces new mons. I saw Youtubers use this first, might just be their fault that it became popular in mainstream.
I'd actually Henrypost, because ".5" has no meaning in it and people are arguing over its definitions like feminists are arguing about "how to be a real feminist".
>>25779717
We REALLY don't know, it came as a surprise as Masuda said and there's no reason for him to make a surprise out of even small assumptions people make to that it HAS to be gen 7 or 6 because of this and that. Just stay skeptic and don't let shit rule you over because major shit will go down saturday/sunday and either side is getting BTFO regardless
>>25771208
for the same reason they do not call johto gen 1.5...
>>25771208
X,Y,ORAS are the colours on the chest
>>25779720
>no new major battle mechanic changes
Is adding an entire new stat not enough for you? Or two new types? Or any of the numerous bug fixes that affect game play?
>>25779734
It doesn't need to use the same models, but they obviously would use them even for gen 7 because of how high detail they are. People mistake posing/positioning and models all the time. The thing that's with a sprite change in older games would probably apply with a "posing" change in S/M, though OR/AS used exact same posing as X/Y.
Graphical style could change, but not the major parts like the presentation. FR/LG had a different tileset than R/S, but then again Emerald had a different tileset from those four again.
>>25779741
You could easily assume that. However, Zygarde is stated to be bound to Kalos. This is partly the reason why people are expecting a Hawaii/Kalos hybrid game.
>>25779755
People are just literally retarded. They keep redefining things just to make their point more true. "6.5" is a fucking shit thing to say anyway, becausecheck anything mentioning 6.5 and "label" in any thread regarding anything related to this
Anything information about this in the anime department, though?
>>25779741
"No"
ORAS colors were red and dark blue, not orange and sky blue
>>25779774
>Graphical style could change, but not the major parts like the presentation. FR/LG had a different tileset than R/S, but then again Emerald had a different tileset from those four again.
Nah, shit argument there
XY and ORAS have some minor changes (just like DPPand HGSS or RBE and FRLG), but it's still more or less the same
If there isnt a distinct change, it isnt a new gen
>>25779792
Yeah I know, but there has been changes before so it's not a totally rigid statement. Though yes, drastic changes are needed if anything.
>>25779792
In order to define something you need to look at its constants not the things that may or may not change and that are affected by other variables such as technology (new console) or marketing (hey look at the 3rd version of this gen it has new sprites, now BUY IT). Every new gen had some constants. Them are new characters, new pokemons, new starters , new region. No matter what else they had new, these were always the case.
>>25780521
and also constants of new battle mechanics.
>>25780877
You mean not being backwards compatible.
That is because new generations have new mons and attacks that the old generation doesn't have in its code so it cannot 'read' the data.
So battle compatibility falls under the new pokemon category. Though, yes, it's a strong indicator of new generation.
>>25780910
>So battle compatibility falls under the new pokemon category
Why, might I ask?
>>25780910
>>25780921
nevermind
nah, it's not. It's completely different.
We've had Primals, M. Rayquaza, other megas and their abilities.
The colors on Zygarde's chest has NOTHING to do with Sun and Moon. It's just the shining reflection of Red and Blue.
>>25780926
That's why I said indicator. It's not proof because the things you mentioned can have the same effect inside the same generation.
But new pokemons are only in new generations.
>>25773475
Pokemon Blank confirmed
>>25780961
>It's just the shining reflection of Red and Blue.
Uhm, then it means it IS Red/Blue/Orange/Light blue, like X/Y and S/M are.
>>25780983
>But new pokemons are only in new generations.
New battle mechanics are only in new generations.
>>25780995
Battle mechanics is a foggy term.
Give example pls...
>>25780983
>But new pokemons are only in new generations.
You could say the same thing about forms until DPPt, not counting the weird thing they did with Deoxys.
The last mid-generation game we got introduced dozens of new formes, several new moves, new abilities, and even new fucking weather conditions. Is a new Pokémon really that much of a stretch at this point?
>>25771241
They'll keep shitposting about 6.5 loooong after the game is released.
>>25781011
Forms are not a constant. They didn't exist in every generation. They can't be taken into consideration when defining a new gen. New pokemon were there though. From the first transition from gen 1 to gen 2
>>25781006
>foggy term
I would say "New Pokémon" is a more foggy term than what you make battle mechanics out to be, but I'll get some on each generation transition.
>>25781035
>They can't be taken into consideration when defining a new gen.
Exactly, which is why it's a way of adding new Pokémon without making it a new generation.
Now let me add that list of battle mechanics for you...
>>25780985
And who says Blue and Red have something to do with X and Y? Maybe not?
>>25781063
Heavily implied with who Zygarde is and who are at its sides. We don't know if they're referring to X/Y or Xerneas/Yveltal because we don't know the colors of S/M's box legends.
Screencap this: Gen 6.5 AND 7 fags both get BTFO on Sunday (or Corocoro).
They're about to blow us away with something
>>25781052
Pokemon = pokedex number
New pokedex number = new pokemon
Forms are not new pokemons. Same as megas.
New pokemon = not foggy at all
What if there is a new region and a few new pokemon, but no new starters and no new "main" legends (box trio/duo, M-Charizards being the box mascots instead)
New gen or not?
>>25781118
You are SO stupid.
>>25781118
>no new "main" legends
>M-Charizards being the box mascots instead
FUCK OFF
Other than that, it's the most plausible thing after gen 7.
I think the 6.5 generation idea is just one person here who wants attention. It's not even 2-3 people. It's one person who has no life.
>>25781118
That's something that has never happened.
So in the rare case that it does happen you redefine things. That's what Game-changing variables are about. They turn the tables. Such thing hasn't happened though so everything is still hypothetical.
Unless you know something we don't...
:-D
>>25781160
Yes, the idea of "6.5" is stupid.
The idea of S/M being gen 6 is realizable.
>>25781160
The 6,5 idea is dumb as fuck.
But I have to confess padre, playing devil's advocate is hell funny (all puns are intended).
>>25781173
You are so miserable. You have no life. Everyone here hates you.
Just Fuck off already.
>>25781187
Be cool man.
No one likes the party poopers.
Have fun with us.
I thought this was mostly a huge joke, like the sunfag/moonfag thing. What benefit is there to be in this much denial?
New region + New pokemon + New presentation = new generation.
Are you just that bothered about all the anime only and unused pokemon?What happened with Light of Ruin anyways?
>>25781209
If it's was a joke I'm sorry.
>>25781006
This is not including some things such as contests, different kinds of battles which have different mechanics and their changes, things like Pokeballs and whatnot. Things that don't affect battle such as visual or audio things aren't included either.
>Gen 1 to 2
Weather
Two new types, it's kinda key to core anyway
Genders, effectively adding a mechanic within Attract
Friendship, in the same way as above by being used by Return and Frustration
Held items
Special split
Type chart changes
>Gen 2 to 3
Abilities
Natures
A complete overhaul of the Pokémon data structure; IVs, EVs
Pretty sure there's a lot more changes here as well, but lazy and don't wanna go scavenging
>Gen 3 to 4
Physical/special split
Pretty sure there's more here, too. Poffins which relate to the contest battle mechanics, I guess.
>Gen 4 to 5
Nothing major, just a bunch of small yet understandable changes, such as shiny rates, EXP scaling and so on
>Gen 5 to 6
Mega evolutions
Fairy type and retypings of mons and moves to that type, just so that it's mentioned
Twenty-eight Pokémon from earlier generations receive a 10-point increase in one of their base stats
Type chart changes
I know there are changes to Toxic, sleep things, T-Wave and other shit but such changes for specific battle mechanics aren't specified in pedo-wikia for any generation and it makes me kinda pissed, because this list could have been a lot longer if I could just include those without having to go the extra step and actually search for them.
Well, anyway.
>>25771208
God, fuck off. Kalos is long dead already.
>>25781243
They don't have any reason to scrap such major things and not in this quantity. If they are actually scrapping things, they are wasting a lot of tools which bring so much potential and cashcowiness that it's not funny.
The logic just doesn't add up, unlike goddamn Tengen Hoopa Gurdurr Laga.
>>25781170
>Unless you know something we don't...
I do indeed
GF left a big hint in ORAS
>>25781298
You need to stop posting this instant.
>>25781267
You forgot the most important of all changesthe nickname characters being extended from 8 to 12/spoiler]
>>25781337
of course I forgot, leet
a gen is a gen. you can't say it's only half
>>25781378
but we can say it's a gen and not another gen
>>25781386
anon, I was only trying to meme. I agree that it's gen 7
>>25781396
nah
>>25781267
You forgot to include all the changes from RBY to Stadium.
>>25781838
And those were also kept in G/S/C, or?
>>25771208
>using patterns to predict a break in patterns
Did anybody else notice this? In Anistar City.
>>25782170
It's really the only logical thing to do right now. You really can't say Masuda isn't just gonna surprise us once and leave us with nothing but illogical decisions. We're meant to be surprised more than once hereand by that I mean in expectations of everything
>>25782311
You know moondials ARE a real thing right? It's just a piece of trivia, nothing more.
>>25782443
Then what's up with the sundial?
>>25779628
You are truly dense. I was saying that in between two hypothetical games, two different but equal in scale hypothetical changes could happen, and only one of those changes would be accepted as a new gen.
But you have to have realised this and decided that you don't want to admit defeat so you started shitposting to avoid actually having to answer the goddamn question.
>>25782661
No, you're not presenting a game that doesn't share the same battle mechanics within the same generation, I can't take you seriously. That's about it.
>>25782730
You are truly a moron.
I am giving you two hypothetical situations. This has literally nothing to do with any existing games, although I could just say these hypotheticals are happening in the move from gen 6 to gen 7.
What is important in my post is that you cannot actually refute that your shitty definition actually falls apart in practice if there aren't changes AND new pokemon. Without the new pokemon, mechanics and compatibility have no actual substance capable of making people consider a new game a new gen.
Pokemon themselves, on the other hand, wouldn't actually need mechanics changes to be considered a new gen (and we can actually see this effect in practice with all the spoilers being attributed to a new gen without actually knowing the mechanics.)
Literally everything about that definition is pure bullshit. New pokemon (new numbers in the national dex) are the only way of separating gens that doesn't immediately fall on its face when something else in the games formula significantly changes.
Sixers, 6.5 fags, 7 deniers. Whatever you call yourselves, you're fucking autistic and should kill yourselves immediately.
>>25782863
lmop
>>25782932
This is roughly what I wish would happen to 6.5'ers after the last few weeks.
>>25783048
nah just an accurate representation of who I'm quoting
I don't care if it's a remake or a new gen. I just want Mega Raichu.
>>25783096
Mega Raichu would be awesome but they probably won't do it because it would take the spotlight off of their precious Pikachu.
>>25781022
I'd much prefer that to ORAS shit-posting
>>25783096
Not happenin
hurr
>mfw GF announces soon the 7th gen
>mfw gen6.5fags still use the same arguments
>mfw their stupid paranoic theories get dunked on
Those 6.5fags are really stupid
New pokemon
>"but...but it is gen 6,5 bc there are no starters"
New starters
>"but.....but still gen 6 bc there is no new region"
New region
>"but....but....but it is still gen 6 bc it uses the same sprites"
Updated sprites
>"errr...err...but....err....still gen 6 bc pokemon is in the title"
WTF? seriously? is that your argument?
>"CHECKMATE!!!! GEN 6,5 CONFIRMED!!!!!"
It's either one gen, or the other, it can't be in between.
>>25781267
You forgot automatic repels and reusable TMs which were introduced in Gen 5.
>>25771208
I don't even care what the fuck it is anymore. Gen 6.5, Gen 7, I don't care anymore. Just please be fucking good with a good number of Pokemon behind it. This is starting to legitimately piss me off with how quiet they are about this. It's fucking Gen IV all over again, fuck me.
>>25771208
>fucking Gen 6.5 AND Gen 7 fags will be BTFO whenGen 8is confirmed.
>>25771208
Refer to image fag.
>>25772390
>is
Fixed that for you anon.
>>25772421
Mechanics are what exactly? Because the only reason that trading and battling has ever not been compatible between Gens is new Pokémon, not mechanics.
>>25787507
>Mechanics are what exactly?
Uhhhh they're how the whole fucking game is defined. What kind of question is that?
> Because the only reason that trading and battling has ever not been compatible between
No, it absolutely is because of new mechanics. How the hell would you think battling would work between say, gen 4 and gen 3 If gen 4 calculates damage based on whether the move is physical or special and not the type while gen 3 doesn't? Or how would gen 1 battle with gen 2 if gen 2 has two stats and two types that don't even exist in gen 1?
Meanwhile we have ORAS, which introduced Megas AND moves, and it can still battle with XY as long as you remove the new Megas from your party BECAUSE the mechanics are the same. If they introduce new Pokemon but don't change any of the mechanics then it wouldn't be any different from how ORAS handled things.
>>25773234
No. Just no. Go back to Smogon. It's Gen 6 ONLY if no new Pokémon are introduced. You know, one's that have a national dex number.
>>25787421
just because two unrelated things have coincidences, doesn't mean coincidences between two other things make them unrelated.
it could easily be 6.5
>>25773408
Those were forms anon. They aren't new, and GF can get away with that for that reason. They didn't introduce anything game breaking, or new, so it still holds. New Pokémon, new Gen.
>>25787631
Formes ARE new though.
>>25773540
Actually, no, if you look, megas are like forms. They hold the same dex number and entry, and as such, aren't new Pokémon, but rather, the same Pokémon.
>>25779571
I like this guy. He actually has a brain.
>>25787755
No he doesn't. You just think that because he shares the same shitty opinion as you.
>>25780926
Again, not new Pokémon.
>>25787549
Dumbass, 20 new items, 3 moves, and 3forms are easy to block. 100+ brand new Pokémon, countless new moves, and several hundred new abilities however... Lol, good luck with that.
>>25788156
>100+ brand new Pokémon, countless new moves, and several hundred new abilities however...
These are all baseless assumptions.
>>25787549
1. Nope
2. Obviously they improve mechanics between gens, but only because they can, because the new Pokémon already break compatibility, so they might as well improve on more while they can.
DEAL
>>25787766
>>25787641
>>25788162
Stupid, stupid, and arrogant. While that's all the explanation needed for those two, the last one... The whole point of a new Gen is new Pokémon, and while Gen 6 really killed that, it's still highly more likely that we'll see more than 100 new Pokémon this Gen. So it's really not all that baseless, especially when compared to the idea of a Gen 6.5, or that mechanics decide a Gen, which Smogon will surely be changing in order to be more accurate.
>>25787595
>Crying about 6.5ers and smogon
Verlis please go and stay go
>>25788205
>Nope
Yup
>because the new Pokémon already break compatibility, so they might as well improve on more while they can.
If they didn't in ORAS they don't have to in SM.
>>25788265
> it's still highly more likely that we'll see more than 100 new Pokémon
No it's not. There's absolutely no evidence for this.
>>25788265
>The whole point of a new Gen is new Pokémon
The whole point is new mechanics
>>25789841
>The whole point is something most people aren't even gonna notice, much less pay attention to unless they are competitive
>>25789859
The mechanics make up the entire game. Of course people are going to pay attention to them.
>>25789888
Yes, because how could I not notice the mechanic changes BW introduced such as... um... hrm....
Most people don't play a game just because it works or or for specific battle rules. People play Pokemon for the Pokemon, that's the first thing people pay attention to, people want and people remember.
>>25789912
>Yes, because how could I not notice the mechanic changes BW introduced such as... um... hrm....
Rotom's types. New battling styles. All the move mechanic changes.
>>25789912
>Most people don't play a game just because it works or or for specific battle rules
They play the game for the game. And mechanics define how the game works.
>>25789912
>hidden abilities
>triple and rotation battles
>improved online functionality over gen 4
>Wonder Launcher
>>25789841
The casual player pays little mind to such things when it comes to generations.
And it's not like they're not going to bring in new mechanics for S/M anyway.
>>25789933
The point I was trying to make is the mechanic changes mean very little to people when compared to new Pokemon
People don't decide they want to play a Pokemon game because of the Special/Physical Split, they want to play because of Rayquaza. If you can't understand that, you have a grave misunderstanding of the type of game Pokemon wants to be. What do you think a ten year old kid is going to pat attention to more? How Leaf Blade does different damage than before or "HOLY SHIT WHAT POKEMAN IS THAT?!!"?
>>25771241
>implying 6.5fags won't continue to twist their definitions and continue to propagate this meme
>4 days from now
>"JEEZE GUYS GENERATIONS ARE JUST A FANTERM"
>>25789966
If they're as casual as you claim they're not going to care about generations to begin with.
>And it's not like they're not going to bring in new mechanics for S/M anyway.
They won't if it's gen 6.
>>25789970
They want to play because of the game.
I could make an argument for people wanting to play ORAS because of the new Megas. But new Megas don't make ORAS suddenly gen 7. The mechanics do. Because ORAS' mechanics are shared with XY and it's compatible with XY so it's obviously the same generation as XY. New Megas or abilities or moves don't change that. And neither will new Pokemon.
So, let me get this straight.
If Sun and Moon have all the following:
-New Pokemon
-New Region
-New Abilities and Moves
-New Graphics
-Can't trade directly with XY/ORAS
But for some fucking weird ass reason, they have some weird mechanic that lets you battle with XY/ORAS games, they are Gen 6?
>>25771402
>>25790055
>If they're as casual as you claim they're not going to care about generations to begin with.
I dunno. I never really cared about the mechanics changes, but I can still keep up with generations. Even when I was a small one.
>They won't if it's gen 6.
How do you figure? The remakes tend to add in some new mechanics in one way or another.
>>25771696
This.
The satisfaction of victory will be wonderful. We may not silence all of them since "muh generation is a fanterm" but I know when we find out a lot of them will at least shut up about it. I've noticed that ever since SM was announced at the direct instead of the Z everyone was hoping for people have been slowly been shifting over to the practical side. The majority of /vp/ supports 7 now. Maybe not much more than half but it's noticeable.
>>25790055
Megas aren't new pokemon.
No matter how much Gamefreak may want to try to replace a lack of real new pokemon with them.
>>25787766
>being this buttmad that people don't agree with you
It's not too late to convert to the sane side, anon
>>25790055
And the Pokemon are the biggest part of the game, not the stats on moves. Stop living in denial
New Megas aren't new pokemon because they don't got there own pokedex number, we've been over this like a hundred time on this board.
>>25790094
>Megas aren't new pokemon.
But people still get excited for them like new Pokemon.
>>25790118
No, the way the game is defined is the biggest part of the game.
>New Megas aren't new pokemon
But people still get excited for them and care about them more than mechanics by that guy's logic. So by that guy's logic new megas should mean a new generation.
>>25790141
wrong side, anon
>>25790127
>The way the game is defined is the biggest part of the game
YES, EXACTLY!!! AND POKEMON IS DEFINED BY THE FUCKING POKEMON ANON!!!!
And now we have gotten into complete strawman territory, congratulations!
The Mega's probable were cared about more than the mechanics, that doesn't make them new pokemon because no matter how much people like them, they don't got their own Pokedex number and disappear after the battle is over
>>25790141
Oooj! You put your argument into a picture that insults your opponent instead of debunking them, that means you've won this debate and not totally exposed yourself as not having a leg to stand on
>>25790170
>YES, EXACTLY!!! AND POKEMON IS DEFINED BY THE FUCKING POKEMON ANON!!!!
Nope. The mechanics do. Pokemon don't define the game any more than megas or formes do. Mechanics define how the entire game works. Without mechanics, there is no game. Mechanics also affect multiplayer. Multiplayer is a huge part of the games.
>And now we have gotten into complete strawman territory
I don't think you know what a strawman is. I'm just following that guy's logic about "what people care about."
>>25790141
>>25790127
>But people still get excited for them and care about them more than mechanics by that guy's logic.
They do, but excitement about megas isn't what people define generations as. When a new game pops up with a bunch of new pokemon and a new place, people generally call it a new gen for quick reference. It's been that way sense Gold and Silver.
Remakes just use the engine of the newest generation, adding a few nice mechanics and extra features here and there.
All this to become moot should Sun and Moon be shown to have new mechanics anyway.
>>25790181
>The Pokemon games are not defined by the Pokemon themselves but of stuff like how attacks can be special or physical
Did I, ever, in my statements, say "If people are excited for the new game, it's a new gen" Because that's what you said I said
>>25790201
>hey do, but excitement about megas isn't what people define generations as
Yes. What people define generations as is new mechanics.
>people generally call it a new gen for quick reference. It's been that way sense Gold and Silver.
Because that's been the pattern. But now the pattern is broken. Up until ORAS if I saw a new ability I would have called it a new gen ability. But obviously that doesn't work now.
>Remakes just use the engine of the newest generation
Yes so they're the same gen. They share mechanics.
>All this to become moot should Sun and Moon be shown to have new mechanics anyway.
Yeah yeah whatever helps you sleep at night
>>25790207
No, you said "people are excited for new Pokemon so Pokemon define a gen." I'm just applying that logic to megas. Don't blame me.
>>25790213
I said New Pokemon are what define a generation because it's what defines the pokemon games themselves. Still a Strawman ir
>>25790213
That is not what he said at all.
He said the whole point of a new gen was new pokemon. Then there was a discussion on what matters most to the playerbase. You somehow correlated the two concepts.
Besides, it's not like ORAS had any new starters.
>>25790209
>Yes. What people define generations as is new mechanics.
For sake of discussion, let's assume this is correct.
Why do you think gen 6.5ers believe Sun and Moon have new mechanics?
>>25790209
>People have always defined a generation by it's Pokemon
So you admit your definitions have been wrong before?
They also added no new Pokemon (not forms people)
I think that saying that new generation is only defined by single thing like new pokemon or compatibility is kinda stupid. I'd rather say that new generation is defined by many new things instead of one thing. So in short:
New Pokemon =\= New generation
New region =\= New generation
New mechanics =\= New generation
No compatibility with old games =\= New generation
Rather, having multiple of these like new region, pokemon and mechanics would be a new generation.
>>25790224
No, the mechanics define the generation. And the Pokemon are built on the mechanics. You can't have a Fairy type Pokemon if the Fairy type mechanic wasn't introduced. Or you can't have a Pokemon with a 95 Sp. Def stat if the Sp. Def stat wasn't introduced.
>>25790230
>He said the whole point of a new gen was new pokemon.
And the whole point is also Megas. Megas also matter to the playerbase.
>Besides, it's not like ORAS had any new starters.
So? What do starters have to do with anything?
>>25790238
>So you admit your definitions have been wrong before?
No. My definition has always been about mechanics. I have no idea what you're talking about.
>>25790237
>Why do you think gen 6.5ers believe Sun and Moon have new mechanics?
What? No they don't. They think it'll have new Pokemon and a region. But the mechanics will be the same. That's the argument 90% of gen 6/6.5 people are using.
>>25790209
>Yes so they're the same gen. They share mechanics.
But the remakes don't always have the same mechanics as the rest of the gen.
Fire and Leaf had the Wireless Adapter.
Heart and Soul had the pedometer.
Alpha and Omega had the new megas, soaring, and sneaking.
>>25790252
>They think it'll have new Pokemon and a region. But the mechanics will be the same
And I'm asking why they think the mechanics will be the same.
>>25790244
>"even though a single one of these examples would be widely regarded as being a new gen if I think there should be more so my deluded wishes will come true"
>>25790253
>But the remakes don't always have the same mechanics as the rest of the gen.
They share mechanics. Otherwise battling wouldn't work. Mechanics have to be shared for them to be compatible with games of the same generation.
>>25790254
Because of the evidence in gen 6 games that point to more gen 6 games.
>>25790252
>So? What do starters have to do with anything?
Every new gen has new starters anon.
>>25790259
Every new gen has different mechanics and compatibility anon.
>>25790252
>And you can't have a Fairy mechanic without any Pokemon in the game. In fact you can't have a game without the Pokemon
I said that people were more excited for Megas than mechanics, not that it had anything to do with how Gens are defined.
You just said if you saw a new ability you defined it a new gen, then you were wrong.
>>25790274
>You just said if you saw a new ability you defined it a new gen
I used to ASSUME it's a new gen. But now that's not the case. Because now they're making abilities mid-gen. And soon they'll make Pokemon mid-gen too.
>>25790258
>Because of the evidence in gen 6 games that point to more gen 6 games.
If you mean the evidence here:
>>25771402
It's not very solid. A lot of these ties are pretty tenuous and don't really do much to support the idea that the new game won't have new mechanics.
>>25790261
And yet there's more solid evidence that there will be new starters than there is for a lack of new mechanics.
I'm just going by what I see is the most reasonable conclusion.
>>25790282
>And soon they'll make Pokemon mid-gen too.
They've been sort of doing that sense Diamond/Pearl.
The two most historically standard things that correlate to new generations are: New Starters and New Region.
>>25790282
>>25790296
NEW FORMS ARE NOT NEW POKEMON PEOPLE!!!! Or do you all believe there is more than 721 Pokemon?
>>25790302
Yes, obviously
>>25790302
Which is why I said "sort of".
I don't consider them new pokemon either, but we do get peaks of next gen pokemon mid-gen every now and again.
>>25790311
Strange then how you only need 721 (not counting however many Mythical pokemon there are) for the game itself to tell you "You caught every single Pokemon"
>>25788222
WITH
>>25791823
USELESS BUMPS
Christ why is everyone arguing in such absolutes when we know literally nothing about the game? They might add a whole bunch of new stuff to where it is obviously gen 7, or there might only be a few changes and 6.5 would be a better label. Nobody fucking knows because we have zero concrete info on these games.
>>25793134
why are you bumping this fucking thread
argument's over, kid. go home and wait until the third.
>>25787755
I like you too anon. Nice Glaceon.
