Who is the most powerful trainer of the main characters?
>>25677524
Probably the DPPt protagonists for taking on gods.
Followed by RS, then BW, then XY, then GSC and finally RBY.
>>25677572
that's more circumstance, who says Gold or Ruby or Red couldn't have taken out Gods if they were put in the same situation
>>25677597
>Ruby
>>25677524
Idk their real names
1. Diamond (DPPt protagonist)
2. Gold
3. Pearl (rival) Barry might be his name?
4. Red
5. Ruby (protagonist from Gen 3)
6. Protagonist from Black/White
7. Gen 6 protagonist
8. Blue
9. Silver
10. May
>>25677655
>putting Ethan and Red that high
Yeesh.
You people need some perspective.
>>25677597
Circumstance or not they're still gauges of strength for each character.
>>25677597
Technically Ruby/Sapphire DID take on gods since Groudon, Kyogre, and Rayquaza are basically the gods of the land, sea, and sky.
>>25677701
Groudon, Kyogre and Rayquaza aren't gods.
>>25677678
If you take away the physical limitations from the games they were the protagonist in, and put them on a fair ground as the rest of the protagonist, then they are some of the best. In particular, Gold.
There's really no trainer or battle situation that Gold cannot handle. He's mastered all types. But the DPPt protagonist is still the best
>>25677733
Groudon, Kyogre and Rayquaza are gods.
>>25677733
In the same sense that Dialga, Palkia and Arceus are gods, yes, they are.
>>25677758
>There's really no trainer or battle situation that Gold cannot handle. He's mastered all types.
You mean like every protagonist after his time the ones that went through more than him?
>>25677758
Gold has a team of nothing but shitmons and beat the easiest region in the series. He's not confirmed to have interacted with any powerful Pokemon. He probably belongs at the bottom of the list.
>>25677733
Rayquaza is the strongest pokemon in the series
>>25677758
considering Gold beat Red (and the highest level pokemon ever used by a trainer) I'd agree
>>25677611
Ruby is the most pimp motherfucker in existence.
Also how can anyone honestly hate Gold?
>inb4 PWT isn't ""canon""
>>25677524
We'll never know because they decided to suck Red's dick 16 years ago, and they now have to keep that because they're too stupid to retcon things even when they have.
>>25677776
>>25677785
They aren't, they're just above the bird trio when it comes to elemental control.
As for Dialga, Palkia, Giratina and Arceus, they are the deities of the universe and lay down the laws of it. They are on an entirely different tier.
>>25677820
BST =! Canon strength.
Ray was also BTFO'd in several games and movies by things that should be weaker than it.
Lucas/Dawn captured gods and defeated Goddess Cynthia.
You know, I could argue a lot of deities are just really strong element wielders.
>>25677816
Gold beat two regions
He became Johto champion, and said, "fuck it" and went to become Kanto champion just for fun
And then he seeked out the previous champion just to rub it in some more
And then he thought it would be a good idea to visit a life granting bird and guardian of the ocean
All this while also bringing down the mafia
>>25677933
>beating regular trainers
Come back when he has a feat every other protag hasn't done.
>>25677964
What regular trainers? Part of getting 16 badges and beating two Elite Fours, means there's nothing you can do to stump this guy. He's seen them all and beaten them all.
You can try to throw any typing combo at Gold, but he clearly as a tactic and plan for anything.
What other protagonist can say that?
>>25678012
literally all of them
>>25678025
All of the rest have 16 badges?
>>25677933
>And then he thought it would be a good idea to visit a life granting bird and guardian of the ocean
And Brendan defeated rampaging pokemon threatening the entire region.
Dawn took on the gods of the universe.
Hilbert took captured the legendary pokemon of truths/ideals while beating the opposite dragon.
Rosa took down a fusion of one of the previous dragons and it's old body.
Calem captured the embodiment of life or death and defeated the man who was abusing their power.
Ho oh and Lugia aren't anything special in comparison to these.
>>25678012
Literally all of them, especially the ones in the mega evolution universe where mega evolution can cause type changes on the fly.
>>25678077
>badges
>meaning anything
this guy. you gotta be 18+ to post here
>>25678102
>the canonically weakest
>>25678102
>gets btfo by Gold
>>25678109
he's so strong he decided to go hide in a cave and give someone else a chance to catch up
>>25678138
>hide in a cave
>literally just on a short training trip
Not to mention he has the worst team ever.
>>25678025
no but they have better accomplishments than that, both in the pokemon they defeated/captured, the villains that they faced and the trainers they defeated
Battle frontier is more impressive than beating kogas daughter. saffron's b gym, and blue
>>25678135
>implying Red was giving it his all
He will forever be +1 above anyone, because Red is metaphorically Satoshi Tajiri.
>>25678155
If Pikachu is the mascot, Red will always be the strongest.
>>25678138
Red went insane obviously thats why he was in that mountain..
Objectively:
Nate/Rosa >= Ethan/Kris/Lyra > Red
We don't have enough information to rate others protagonists.
>but muh gen 4 god pokemon
>but muh gen 5 dragon god whatever
It doesn't mean anything, these pokemon can be easily defeated, their lore is bullshit. You need to consider direct fights in order to be coherent.
>>25678162
meant to tag>>25678077
>>25678163
>he got btfo on purpose
>>25678174
what is the hardest legendary to actually fight? in its own game that is
Mewtwo? Rayquaza? Giratina?
>>25677524
B2w2 beat every champion
>>25678174
>Argument against god pokemon is "muh"
Nice job asshat. You're really pullin some opinions with that one.
>>25678233
this
and every gym leader and the dragons of balance and the Seven Sages of Team Plasma
on Hard mode
>>25678174
>Feats of strength aren't feats of strength unless I say so!
Fuck off. Direct fights are the worst way to decide because each of their challenges fluctuate in strength.
>>25678246
yeah whatever
the lore of these pokemon is still irrelevant to the discussion lol
>>25678291
Yeah sure, because Blue is in the same level as Cynthia right?
>>25677524
Lucas and Dawn
>>25678266
>feats of strenght
lol no
like dialga doesn't control time during the battle, defeating it has the same merit as defeating tall grass pokemon
that's why the lore of these pokemon is irrelevant to their actual power
>Direct fights are the worst way to decide because each of their challenges fluctuate in strength.
you're dumb m8
if ethan defeats red in GSC/HGSS, is coherent to affirm that the former is better than the latter
>>25678396
Unless there is a new pokeGod canon
Nate from BW2, he beat a powerfull dragon, before megaevolution existand beaut all champions from gen 1 to gen 5
>>25678218
Probably Mewtwo or Rayquaza
>>25678397
Dialga is impossible to beat since it is literally time itself meaning it could just pause you or simply mindfuck you into not trying to fight it in the first place. The games only allow this because they are games, lel Arceus would have a field day watching one of the many insignificant things it made try to do jackshit to it.
>>25678441
Im starting to consider gen 5 to not be canon it was such a mess
Definitely the DPPt protag, Sinnoh has by far the strongest league out of all the games, the strongest and the most competent villain
>>25678441
If we count post-game stuff, Crystal had the toughest post-game.
The battle tower is damn near impossible
>>25678397
>like dialga doesn't control time during the battle,
Except, you know when they use their signature moves.
>if ethan defeats red in GSC/HGSS, is coherent to affirm that the former is better than the latter
The keyword being "if".
In any case that kind of logic only applies to those two, you have nothing to compare the others like that unless you use the PWT which would place Rosa and Nate at the top for beating the leaders and champs of every region.
>>25678489
Roar of Time/Spacial Rend should erase you from existence honestly.
>>25678484
dont forget battle frontier in emerald
>>25678454
>The games only allow this because they are games
you've proved my point
Lucas/Dawn couldn't beat these pokemon if lore was relevant, therefore defeating/catching Arceus/Dialga/whatever doesn't count as an achievement
>>25678501
Which just goes to show you the extent of their power.
>>25678510
I don't know what's worse...going agains pic related in Crystal 100 times straight, or fighting max EV Pokemon at the Emereld Battle Frontier
>>25678524
>Arceus/Dialga/whatever doesn't count as an achievement
Who are you to say that exactly?
Using that same logic being the champ shouldn't be an achievement.
why was gen 4 so based
![4SpXRTvY[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/ME5sE7X.jpg "4SpXRTvY[1].jpg")
well, we know the G/S trainer is more powerful than red
other than that, it's a toss up
>>25678547
Because that's when they jumped the shark.
>>25678547
After Emerald its the only gen that's aging really well even without firemons
>>25678545
Beating legends is pure meme, in reality they are leagues beyond even pseudos that are usually the strongest species in the region. I wouldnt even get to actual gods like Groudon, Kyogre and Rayquaza that could destroy the entire planet.
>>25678538
I'd say crystal because it was also glitchy as fuck.
>>25678548
Red is metaphorically Satoshi. Red is also metaphorically Ash. Ash/Red are the flagship characters of Gamefreak. They will always be the best. Red is Gamefreak's Mickey Mouse.
>in b4 Red isn't Ash despite them both being born in the same town, wearing the same clothes, and using the same Pokemon
>>25678567
>Groudon
>kyogre
>Rayquaza
>destroying the planet
Why do people always think this?
They were regional tier threats not planetary like the God trio.
>>25678489
>Except, you know when they use their signature moves.
a colorful explosion of light? that's not controlling time
>The keyword being "if".
if you can defeat red in GSC/HGSS, it's valid to consider that ethan officially defeated red
>In any case that kind of logic only applies to those two, you have nothing to compare the others like that unless you use the PWT which would place Rosa and Nate at the top for beating the leaders and champs of every region.
nigger r u dumb
that's exactly what I did in my first post
>>25678584
autism
>>25678589
The planet was literally made by them.
>>25678611
It wasn't, it was made by Arceus.
They were just ancient pokemon that possibly lived around the beginning of earth before fighting and then being beaten by Ray.
>>25678545
that's exactly why you should only consider direct fights between the protagonists, otherwise any other comparison is kinda abstract
>>25678591
>a colorful explosion of light? that's not controlling time
It's literally a roar that distorts time. Also didn't you notice on spear pillar that the columns begin to distort. However I think that may have been plat in any case that's a show of power for you.
>if you can defeat red in GSC/HGSS
Heads up anon, it's post game content. The canonicity of it is in question.
>>25678634
>that's exactly why you should only consider direct fights between the protagonists, otherwise any other comparison is kinda abstract
That would exclude all but three of the protags.
It would be much simpler just to go with the feats they all share and the closest thing would be the legendaries which applies to all but Red.
how does Red keep his Pokemon healthy if he's always on Mt. Silver. Sure he has some potions but eventually he'd run out right? Same with food.
>>25678653
it works as a colorful explosion of light
otherwise it would kill/erase from existence/whatever (it doesn't) any pokemon in your party
that's why lore doesn't determine power
>the canonicity of it is in question
lol it is not
>>25678701
>That would exclude all but three of the protags.
your point?
>>25678751
You can't exactly guage which is the strongest if you cut out more than half arbitrarily.
>>25678763
>You can't exactly guage which is the strongest
exactly, we can't
>arbitrarily
no I'm using things that actually happened in the games to prove my point
>>25678733
>it works as a colorful explosion of light
That distorts time, what aren't you getting here?
>that's why lore doesn't determine power
Then what does, because it certainly isn't in game mechanics. That's an entirely different area and irrelevant to the argument.
>lol it is not
It's postgame, as a rule of thumb it's not canon.
>>25678722
he makes his own potions out of mountain herbs and feeds only on the energy of the cosmos
also isn't he only like 15 at most?
>>25678792
>exactly, we can't
You can if you use the legendary pokemon to do so because the majority of protags have fought one. This argument is also about things outside of the game mechanics keep in mind.
The only problem would be red who has also been defeated by both Ethan and Rosa which takes care of him.
>no I'm using things that actually happened in the games to prove my point
While excluding other things that don't arbitrarily. That's not how you guage strength, you have to take into account everything and not just one factor that only applies to a fraction of the group.
>>25678793
>That distorts time, what aren't you getting here?
it doesn't matter if the move distorts time or not, it's irrelevant in battle
>Then what does, because it certainly isn't in game mechanics. That's an entirely different area and irrelevant to the argument.
do you know that moves, abilities and status are canon, right?
>It's postgame, as a rule of thumb it's not canon.
the postgame exists in the game
>>25677700
But mewtwo has higher bst than any of the dppt legendaries so that would make red the strongest but he loses to gold so that logic is shit.
You could argue dppt protags versed arceus in an event but you could also vs him in bw in a dream world event so that would make the bw protags just as strong
>>25678850
>You can if you use the legendary pokemon to do so because the majority of protags have fought one.
if the lore of these legendary pokemon was relevant, the protagonists couldn't have beaten them
>The only problem would be red who has also been defeated by both Ethan and Rosa which takes care of him.
well that's what I've posted
>While excluding other things that don't arbitrarily.
it's not arbitrarily because such things are abstract
>>25678852
>it doesn't matter if the move distorts time or not, it's irrelevant in battle
Battle mechanics being entirely irrelevant when a level 100 Magikarp could beat the game in the hands of the protags.
>do you know that moves, abilities and status are canon, right?
Better ask yourself that seeing as you're saying "nuh uh" to a move and what it does to suit your own argument.
>the postgame exists in the game
Doesn't mean it's canon for example
Red capturing Mewtwo but it's still there in HGSS.
Hilbert capturing Kyurem despite it being a central plot point in the next game.
Just because it's there doesn't mean it's canon.
>>25678911
>But mewtwo has higher bst than any of the dppt legendaries so that would make red the strongest but he loses to gold so that logic is shit.
>going by BST
>ever
A man standing infront of a cave blocked Mewtwo in. Also Red never battled Mewtwo because he's in HG/SS and XY
>>25678951
>if the lore of these legendary pokemon was relevant, the protagonists couldn't have beaten them
So why exactly can't they be relevant? Especially when it's the only true guage of strength we have for them.
Also toppling gods isn't exactly a hard feat when it comes to video games and Japanese media in general.
>it's not arbitrarily because such things are abstract
Not really, we know the scale of their strength and what they can do even across the various canons. It's just a matter of compiling information.
>>25678971
>>going by BST
>>ever
Why not? Its canon evidence that one pokemon is stronger than other
>A man standing infront of a cave blocked Mewtwo in
He was just stopping people from going in because the wild pokemon in there were too strong for regular civilians. Mewtwo was just chilling in there, the guy out the front probably wasn't even aware he was in there
>>25678971
>Also Red never battled Mewtwo
of course he did
he just freed him
>>25678954
>a level 100 Magikarp could beat the game in the hands of the protags.
what's wrong with that
>Better ask yourself that seeing as you're saying "nuh uh" to a move and what it does to suit your own argument.
battle mechanics are canon
roar of time is canon
the fact that it distorts time is canon
but it doesn't mean that such things necessarily make sense, therefore we shouldn't consider them in this discussion
>Doesn't mean it's canon for example
>Red capturing Mewtwo but it's still there in HGSS.
>Hilbert capturing Kyurem despite it being a central plot point in the next game.
world tournament and red vs. ethan don't create incongruities between the games though
>>25679010
>So why exactly can't they be relevant?
because I can defeat dialga with a rattata
if the fact that dialga controls time is relevant, I couldn't defeat it with a rattata
>Especially when it's the only true guage of strength we have for them.
we have game mechanics but that is abstract too
>Also toppling gods isn't exactly a hard feat when it comes to video games and Japanese media in general.
that's why it's irrelevant
>>25679024
>Why not? Its canon evidence that one pokemon is stronger than other
Because BST isn't canon. It's a mechanic to "balance" the game you idiot.
>Mewtwo was just chilling in there, the guy out the front probably wasn't even aware he was in there
I doubt he wasn't aware of mewtwo otherwise after all it breaking into a cave is probably pretty flashy.
>>25679110
>because I can defeat dialga with a rattata
>if the fact that dialga controls time is relevant, I couldn't defeat it with a rattata
That's exactly why you shouldn't go by in game mechanics, they're designed with the player in mind so you can't lose regardless of what you use.
That's why you should only go by the lore strength of the legendaries. Anything else would just place every trainer across the game at the same level and we wouldn't solve anything.
>we have game mechanics but that is abstract too
You keep on saying "Too" like it means something, the lore is a constant. Battle mechanics aren't.
>that's why it's irrelevant
That's precisely while it is relevant. You're making the assumption that gods are infallible things when it's a common trope that while they are extremely powerful they can be defeated.
>>25679038
>what's wrong with that
Magikarp is literally the weakest of the weak anon. It shouldn't be beating anything unless it evolves.
That's the problem.
>but it doesn't mean that such things necessarily make sense, therefore we shouldn't consider them in this discussion
In the context of this discussion and pokemon what exactly is sense?
Because many would agree that battle mechanics make no sense given several of the pokemon's dex descriptions and what not.
In any case you're basically saying that neither of our arguments should be taken into account because none make sense in any context.
>world tournament and red vs. ethan don't create incongruities between the games though
There's quite a few but I'd have to be on my computer to list them all. The big one would be the age discrepancy when it comes to the PWT or lack of it.
>>25677524
I always saw Red and Hilbert as being the strongest. Their sprites make them seem the most serious along with having time skip sequels giving them 2-3 years of training.
Probably ORAS due to mega fug
>>25678626
Arceus created Dialga and Palkia who combined power made the universe. Groudon created the earth.
Wouldn't the BW2 protagonist be pretty damn high considering they took on every gym leader, elite four member, and champion from all regions excluding Kalos? At least third place under Lucas and Brendan who took on (and maybe captured) gods.
>>25679180
>game says mewtwo is stronger
>NOOOOOOO
shut up
>>25677524
DPPt Protagonists
>>25677933
Kanto and Johto share leagues dumbass.
I'd wager either Lucas/Dawn or Hilbert/Hilda
>>25677884
>objective stats and viability don't count
>but anime movie does
Wow, sure smells like retard here
>>25677733
>>25677776
Welcome to /vp/
