Discussion about the making or playing of English Language Visual Novels, save for the ones from /ksg/, or games released originally in Japanese.
Do you have a question about a Japanese visual novel or a translation of it?
/vn/ is ready to answer it.
>Developer Resources, Getting Started:
http://pastebin.com/7LsCvtq3
>Recommended Reading:
https://vndb.org/v/all?q=;fil=olang-en.tagspoil-0;o=d;s=rating
http://pastebin.com/zGVSpH0B
For Developers. Huge collection of guides on everything:
http://meganelover.com/post/122965940223/visual-novel-creation-masterlist
Ren'Py Download:
http://www.renpy.org/
Last thread: >>140261015
>>140872292
Directly from the end, as a sequel / continuation
>Good luck
Thanks, I'm glad you enjoyed reading it. We are aware that there are a quite a bit of expressions missing for some of the girls, but we had to make some compromises in order to have the time to produce a reasonable amount of CGs. It's not impossible that we decide to add some sprites for some of the minor characters though. As for the sprites themselves though, it's not likely we will rework on them, mostly because the next part will have new sets of sprites (and this time more clothes variations are planned).
For the RP thing, we've received both positive and negative reaction with the scene, so I guess it's really subjective.The intent here was mostly to show all the characters be happy together and worry-free (except for Yahiko) one last time before the ending, since I don't think the next part will have a lot of happy-go-lucky slice of life.
Thanks for the feedback anyway, it's much appreciated.
Good morning, you dead bastards.
>>140911110
That doesn't look so low.It actually looks better than most $15+ evns
>>140912596
It looks good, it's just that the developers have been making this without any budget so far, hence why.
>>140913086
name the devs ?
>>140913178
Lekasoft studios I think. Their game is called Lost Winter Nights. There's a very short playable demo if I recall.
>>140913741
Aw shiet.
Checked their demo. Unpacked resources, all expressions done as individual separated files, despite having 1 base body for each characters. Blinking textbox. Shit lags at start. Shit lags in "History" screen. And they have (!) 2 programmers according to lemma & fuwa threads.
>>140914676
Yeah I saw that. The blinking textbox is really annoying and distracting. I'm surprised they didn't try to fix this first thing.
>>140912268
ohayou
>>140914676
>all expressions done as individual separated files
that's not too bad unless there is a shitton of characters
>>140914676
>all expressions done as individual separated files, despite having 1 base body for each characters
In defense of that practice, I find it a hell of a lot easier to plot out scenes when the expressions are fully built in the images directory and I can go look at it and see exactly what the face will look like before coding the character to switch to it.
It's not like filesize is an issue with most of these games, if there's no voice acting. Even with every single expression saved as a png the game's still under 200 MB. I could shave that down, but why? Some customers get bitchy if the game file is too small, like it can't possibly be a decent game if it's under 100MB.
Blinking textbox, though, damn, I've refused to play games I got free copies of for that. (I assume you mean it disappears every time an expression changes? Annoying as fuck.)
>>140911640
I liked the RP part. It made sense and seemed like a good way to turn around the mood. I find kind of funny when people complain about little SoL segments in a medium rife with them.
More on the tech side of things, though, I stumbled across pic related in the amusement park. Seems like a sprite is missing or bad naming or something. I get this one whenever I leave the tech showcase event for last.
>>140920085
Really? I couldn't stand it. It dragged on and on, was utterly mindless, and broke up the otherwise somber but optimistic end of the VN. Having the brief happy reunion in the hospital was more than enough, and felt way more natural.
I hated all of the SoL parts, though, so maybe it's just me.
On the note of tons of files... Can someone explain live composite to me like I am 5 years old? Or link to a good tutorial?
>>140920324
>I hated all of the SoL parts, though, so maybe it's just me.
My point, my good anon. If a VN makes a point of including SoL and they don't lie about it, well, the fault lies at you.
It's fine if you don't like them and prefer other genres. There are VNs out there that keep the SoL parts brief or non existant (although less abundant than its counterpart because interacting with nice and likable characters seems to feel a basic necessity that goes unquenched modern day Japan--and soon the whole world). Saya no Uta and Kikokugai, for example.
>>140921342
*seems to fill
>>140921342
That argument doesn't hold up. If halfway through Clannad you had to play Call of Duty for twenty hours before you could continue, you would be well within your rights to criticise that choice of direction, even if it was advertised that it would be included. In the same way, saying "This VN's sprites are drawn in crayon" does not then invalidate people criticising the VN for an unecessary and possibly distracting stylistic choice.
Fallen Snow can develop Lucid9 how they like (and I hope they do, overall it's been quite good so far). But I can also provide feedback on the experience, and my feeling is that it would be a much better VN if it was remade as a single-thread narrative, and not a multi-route dating sim.
>>140922039
>That argument doesn't hold up. If halfway through Clannad you had to play Call of Duty for twenty hours before you could continue, you would be well within your rights to criticise that choice of direction, even if it was advertised that it would be included. In the same way, saying "This VN's sprites are drawn in crayon" does not then invalidate people criticising the VN for an unecessary and possibly distracting stylistic choice.
This argument doesn't hold up.
If you were warned that there was Call of Duty in the middle, you could still criticise its effect on the pacing of the story, because that's a secondary issue.
But if a VN is advertised up front as having crayon sprites, all the screenshots have crayon sprites, and then you play it and bitch that it has crayon sprites, you're as much of an idiot as the people who buy VNs and then complain that they're virtual books with no gameplay. YES THAT IS WHAT IT SAID ON THE TIN.
>>140920812
Read the documentation.
>>140922298
If I bought the game and then said "WTF why are there crayon sprites???? Gayshit lol" then I would indeed be an idiot. But if insead I said "Buying into the team's artistic vision of a visual novel sprited entirely with crayon, I found myself left cold. Unfortunately, the overall effect failed to properly convey the emotional state of the characters, and ultimately left me unable to take seriously the VN's more emotional moments" - then that is fair feedback that their aims fell flat.
With Lucid9, I acknowledge that the game was pitched as partly SoL. I am now providing feedback that I found those elements detracted from the experience, and that I believe it would have been a better VN without them. You are also welcome to provide feedback on your own experience with Lucid9.
Selenon Rising now has a single review
It's negative
Poor bastards
>>140924338
>Sekai Project
uh, aren't publishers supposed to market products they take on
>>140924338
laughing so fucking hard here
>>140924954
https://twitter.com/TheGamersTemple/status/726120671697203200
https://twitter.com/sekaiproject/status/726065272004685824
https://twitter.com/sekaiproject/status/725825359741083648
https://twitter.com/GraalFr/status/725588095853285376
What more could you want?
>>140925214
>30% of your profits past Steam/taxes for two tweets
If any of you guys are dumb enough to sign with them, you deserve your horrible fate.
>>140925347
The other tweets are them retweeing gaming sites posting about it, so they at least submit your press release to some 'journalists'
But yes. You could do this yourself, if you're not a complete cavedweller.
>>140924338
That's what you get for making typos in game name.
How is it even possible to mispronounce Skeleton as Selenon ?
>>140925757
Skeleton Raising
The new necromancer parenting sim
>>140922856
>>140922298
If that can somehow help, as I said earlier, I don't think the next parts will focus on slice of life (if there is, probably much less than in Inciting Incident). That being said, I'm not sure you could argue that the game would objectively become better without the SoL parts. With all the feedback we've received, it seems that a majority of the people enjoyed the slice of life in the sense that it made them care about the characters. However, there is also a (non-negligible) minority who believes the SoL really distracts the pace of the game. I don't believe any group is objectively more right than the other, how you will react to this will depend on one's own sense of humor. I'll admit that the demographic we are targeting (at least with Inciting Incident) is probably younger than your average EVN? With all the internet culture stuff, memes and pop-culture references, it's most likely harder to enjoy the game if you're not really into it.
Anyway, my point is, different demographics, different tastes, different experience. While your feedback is definitely valuable, it relies on your personal enjoyment and tastes. Would removing all of the slice of life make the story better if a majority of people saw value in it? And if you were to replace those scenes, what would you include instead?
>>140925214
>2 tweets
>17 likes and 13 retweets in total
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA
Oh wait, it's actually quite bad.
HAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHA
The crowdfunding campaign for Phantom the Rebound succeeded. Didn't this one fail before and relaunched later with a much lower goal for the same game?
And, from the creators of Sickness, comes Wander No More to Steam.
>>140925889
Right. Everyone will naturally have their own opinion.
For me, I still didn't care about most of the characters, and at least for Inciting Incident, they had no reason to be in the story. Akira and Airi are very unrealistic, which makes them hard to take seriously. Akira's boundless optimism especially clashes awfully with the overall tone of the VN. Had neither existed, I don't believe Inciting Incident would have been any the worse, and I think the pacing would have been much improved.
Elizabeth is a more grounded character, but again, she doesn't serve much purpose in Inciting Incident that couldn't be easily glossed over. I don't think any of these three had any really emotional scenes, either. Maybe I'll change my mind after part 2, but looking at Inciting Incident alone, I think they could have served much more minor roles.
Misaki is a bit better, given her history with Yama, and her status as a red herring about Yama's past. But she also tied in weakly to the central plot. Amalgamating the essetial roles of Misaki, Airi and Elizabeth into Misaki would have solved all that.
The best parts of the VN are the tension of the mystery, and Yama's scenes with Rui, which not only felt the most natural of any of the heroines, but also led to the most depth. The two have a much deeper and more complicated relationship than almost any other I can think of in an EVN, and I think that was actually the greatest success of Lucid9. Needless to say, I'm not convinced the other 4 heroines will be able to measure up, but I'll reserve judgement until part 2 is out.
As you said, however, to each their own. I found the memes cringey and juvenile, but others may find them fresh and humorous. Ultimately, it's your VN, and whether you choose to incorporate or discard any of this is up to you. I did enjoy the VN, and I think it was one of the best EVNs I've played, but I think it could have been phenomenal, instead of merely good, and that leaves me disappointed.
>>140926846
Fair enough, I can understand that. It would be unrealistic to try to please everyone anyway, though I'm still glad that you found value in playing the game despite disliking a good half of it. Regarding some of the points you wrote, I do think those scenes suffer from the lack of perspective that comes with only releasing part 1. While it's true that a lot of those moments are completely irrelevant to Inciting Incident, they are supposed to set up a non negligible amount of foreshadowing for the heroine routes, but since part 2 is not out, the reader has to take those scenes at face value, meaning that if you dislike the heroines, it will just bore you.
>>140925347
look, this meme again.
>>140914676
>>140916968
>blinking textbox
>lags at start
>lags in "History" screen
What are you guys talking about? The only thing that blinks in the textbox is the little arrow telling you to keep going, and there is no lag whatsoever unless you are playing it in a literal toaster.
This is beyond nitpicking, unless you are the devs and it's just a ruse to make people check it out.If so, it works.
>>140928442
Each time a new sprite or expression appears on screen, the textbox flickers. It's really distracting.
>>140928403
Hey Sekai apologist, how about you let the rest of the class know exactly what is it that they can do for anyone? We have a clear example of them not doing enough to warrant a slice of the pie, as shitty as the pie is.
>>140929168
and can be fixed with literally a single line of code (unless it's a namebox, then you're shit out of luck)
>>140929369
Where have you been the last few threads? It's clear that they partially funded ML, those 5k didn't come out of nowhere.
Should I splurge some money on an artist to draw a cool looking cover and then do the in-game stuff myself, despite my lack of skill in that field? For a comparison of what I'm thinking of, think like the original Umineko releases.
>>140929458
Wasn't that the point? That they have all these 'programmers' and still such a basic mistake put forward
>>140929945
No, see a Wild Catgirl Appears. People will shit on it to no end.
>>140928403
More like if you're dumb enough to sign with a publisher and expect them to do 100% of the marketing work for you. Sekai will basically post about your game as long as you create content they can share easily. If you expect them to come at you and ask you "Okay, so here is the plan for the next two months regarding marketing, we will need you to gather X assets, ideally Y newsletter and blog post, and produce Z original assets for a press release", you're really mistaken. Having Sekai as a publisher is a multiplier for your own marketing efficiency.
Making your own marketing plan twice as more effective is useless if the value of your efforts starts around 0. The EVN projects that teamed up with Sekai who knew how to market themselves but just lacked the audience received a very decent amount of additional exposure thanks to Sekai from what I've seen.
>>140929945
You can do it this way if your total game budget is $50 and if you're really really lucky you might get some decent results, but in general people will bitch that the art doesn't look like the cover and demand refunds.
Unless it's free and then at least you might attract enough attention with your cover to get a few extra downloads.
>>140930062
>Unless it's free
That's the plan. No way am I stupid enough to think people will want to buy it if I do that, I'm interested solely in scoring extra downloads to market myself. It's my hope that enough people aren't put off by the blatant bait-and-switch marketing that they like my writing (which they might not have checked out if not for the cover) and I can market myself more in the future (and maybe re-hire the same artist to do more than a single illustration).
>>140929814
And that's very bad, you moron. They wouldn't have to fund their projects' crowdfunding at all if they were doing a good job advertising. Getting the funding to complete the project and not marketing/selling at all is a bad thing in a commercial project.
I swear to God, some of you still think getting your game on Steam or other stores is making it. There is a big jump between that and getting people to play it and give a fuck about it.
>>140930000
A lot of people bought it, though. They complained, but when you're starting from zero with attention, every little helps
>>140930000
I checked the reviews and more of them are complaining about the writing and technical problems than the art.
>>140930023
>If you expect them to come at you and ask you "Okay, so here is the plan for the next two months regarding marketing, we will need you to gather X assets, ideally Y newsletter and blog post, and produce Z original assets for a press release", you're really mistaken.
They're taking a share of the money.
It's not unreasonable to expect them to be a little proactive.
On the other hand if you can't be arsed to prepare marketing materials for them to use or give them a reasonable time to hype your game before you insist on releasing it, they can't work miracles.
>>140930858
The art has since been fixed. There were tons of complaints about the art when the game launched, we had multiple threads mocking how ridiculous it was.
>>140930023
What is a publisher supposed to do? Publish. If you sign with them and you still have to put your game out there because they don't have a plan, you're not exactly getting a publisher out of the deal.
>>140931013
What does the new art look like?
>>140930889
>On the other hand if you can't be arsed to prepare marketing materials for them to use or give them a reasonable time to hype your game before you insist on releasing it, they can't work miracles.
This. Then again, if they have no QA and will just let you tank, it's very unethical that they'd take your money for a service they're not in condition to provide given the circumstances.
>>140930889
>On the other hand if you can't be arsed to prepare marketing materials for them to use or give them a reasonable time to hype your game before you insist on releasing it, they can't work miracles.
True, but that's no excuse for them not even asking for anything.
>>140930561
one of people's complains is that they don't fund their projects, and ML shows that they do. The only bad decision was using IGG and not announcing it at cons. Otherwise it's been advertised plenty.
>>140931197
>>140931667
>one of people's complains is that they don't fund their projects
And that's a retarded complaint, their job is to publish and market the VNs. Which they're clearly not doing effectively.
>Otherwise it's been advertised plenty.
Where?
>>140931667
>advertised plenty
By ML anon, yes. By sekai? Don't make me laugh, sekai shill.
>>140932901
see
>>140925214
I rest my case, Sekai-hater.
>>140933192
Oh, you're just trolling. Carry on then.
>>140934028
I miss the simpler, more earnest and genuine "you are trolling" times. Now everyone is too jaded and goes for the more coolgy "this is bait".
>>140932901
>And that's a retarded complaint,
It depends on what you expect. In many cases video game publishers DO fund projects. Not always, though.
Really, it's up to the individual what contract they sign and what deals they make.
Is voice acting, no matter how bad it is, mandatory for a VN?
>>140930889
I'm not trying to white-knight them, I have my fair deal of complaints regarding how Sekai could do things, but I'm a bit tired of seeing people pretending they are scammers who will take your money for nothing. Their efficiency isn't great, but they are far from useless either.
>>140931032
But Sekai isn't the best suited to create a marketing plan, because they don't know as much as the devs about the game. Sekai knows where and how to advertise, but it's the dev's role to create and pick the content they want to be promoted. Sekai can't do that for you, and they shouldn't. A marketing plan is something for both the creators and the publisher to make.
>>140931413
It's honestly a bit naive to think that Sekai should dedicate their time and proactiveness toward small EVNs that won't bring them as much profit as JVNs at the end of the day. It's unfair, but money talks and they are a business.
Even if asking about a project isn't much from Sekai, I'm pretty sure most of the devs here can relate to their situation: imagine yourself being very busy with discussing stuff about crucial elements of your VN with some members (say art or music). Now, would you also take the time to check all the lesser jobs (such as editing, coding) and see if they are progressing as well? If you're too busy, you'd probably prefer them to come at you directly to brief you. It's the same with Sekai I feel.
It's true that it's not a real excuse, but if Sekai isn't making the first move, what prevents you from doing it yourself? Devs just need to know their right, have more self confidence and be a bit more pushy. Everyone benefits from it, trying to save some misplaced pride by saying "I paid so they must take care of everything without me having to say a thing" is really stupid.
>>140935040
Yeah, I'm sure repackaging fan translations of JVNs from four or more years ago is hard work.
>>140935020
No. If it is too bad I would actually advise AGAINST including it.
>>140935040
I don't think Sekai are scammers exactly. I do think devs who sign up with them are mugs who could do the same job themselves with a little effort.
>>140935020
Of course not
>>140935040
>But Sekai isn't the best suited to create a marketing plan, because they don't know as much as the devs about the game
>implying any publisher knows more about the game than the dev
just shut up
>>140935040
>if Sekai isn't making the first move, what prevents you from doing it yourself?
The fact I'm giving them revenue to do it?
>>140935854
Asking help from Sekai is more like a shortcut I feel. They are basically selling you their followers, and you get more chance for your announcements to snowball through social medias.
>>140936501
Even under that assumption, you'd have to be pretty stupid to promise to give a share of your profits forever away over a few tweets.
>>140936501
The problem is that everything Sekai does for you can be done in a day or two.
>>140936913
Except the funding, on the cases where they actually do step up with some.
Anyway. Speaking only for myself, I'm not trying to attack them so much as trying to tell people to do it themselves. You'll make more money and feel more in control of your business.
>>140936334
I mean, sure Sekai is at fault, but I don't understand either devs who are too butthurt by Sekai ignoring them to try to remind them that they exist and that they need to work together to make active promotion. Saying "I'm giving them revenue so they should take care of everything" is as stupid as the "customer is king" thing. If you are willing to be more cooperative and swallow your pride, and accept that Sekai might not put your project as a priority, but are still willing to help you promote it, everyone is a winner in the end. It would be a totally different story if Sekai just plainly refused to promote your stuff when asked, but I don't recall hearing of that ever happening (I might be wrong though about that though).
>>140936697
It's all a matter of exposure. Seeing their following, a simple tweet about the name of your game will guarantee you at least thousands of view, and it adds up with the number of retweets. Even if they don't pay attention to your project, they will be at least aware of your game existence. After people become more aware of your game, they are more likely to react when it's mentioned after. And in the end more likely to visit your download page. And maybe if they like it, they will talk about it in social medias or in different communities. It's all stuff that adds up to create a snowball effect. Getting as much exposure on your own is hard, not impossible, but it takes time and effort.
>>140937932
I'm not sure the people bitching about Sekai here are actually the people working with them.
>>140937932
>I don't understand either devs who are too butthurt by Sekai ignoring them
You're trying to defend a position with no merits whatsoever here. If you take a job to publish and market, you publish and market. The developers can afford to have no idea how this works; their job is to develop games. On the other hand, Sekai is offering a service based on how this works. Expecting all developers to understand the situation is stupid, but Sekai's whole business as a publisher depends on their ability to market.
You have no argument here. If they can't do their best because the dev is uncooperative, they should not sign with them. Anything else is just malpractice. You would never blame a surgeon for not being willing to operate on a patient rejecting surgery, but you would sue the hell out of them if the patient wasn't given the instructions from the professional on how to prepare for surgery and died as a direct consequence of that.
>>140936913
Good luck getting an article on a bigger site if you are a first time dev, though.
>>140939282
I did. It helps to target sites that might be interested in them and having a good looking game as well as a press kit rather than just going "HEY FEATURE US".
>>140938948
This is the only place they can bitch about sekai. NDA with sekai forbids speaking out against them. A lot of people are very displeased with them.
>>140938948
I work with people who worked under them on a release and will never do so again. Like >>140940026
said, NDA prevents them from saying shit in public, and I was told this in confidence.
>>140940026
im fine with them
>>140940159
Good fucking riddance, we don't want to work with anyone like you anyway.
>>140940595
A little too on the nose, friend. Gotta be subtler.
>>140940026
Then why do they keep publishing with them?
We've very rarely seen anyone leave. Only Winged Cloud, and they came crawling back.
>>140941020
Because even if their management sucks, they remain effective in numbers I guess?
If my math isn't too wonky, supposing they take a 30% cut from your game, you just need to sell 42% more games than what you would have sold without them to break even.
>>140941565
I doubt a random EVN is going to sell 42% better because Sekai Project retweeted them, really
>>140942635
But it does.
>>140943372
Well, their non-Sekai game also sold like shit on Steam, so who knows, that might be an improvement
>>140943372
I feel bad for them but it is also hilarious
>>140944113
I also feel bad for the hordes of nobody game devs still complaining that Steam didn't "let them know" about the upcoming anime sale, and/or didn't feature their games on the main page.
I mean, it's sweet that you innocently think Steam cares about every little VN and is going to reach out to them personally to invite them into a sale event but... that isn't how the business works.
>>140944491
How does it work? Do you go email them saying "hey next time there's a themed sale hook my game up in on that"?
>>140944905
Might help, since the biggest problem is the 'nobody'.
If you have a game that has made a ton of sales, you are bumped up to a higher level of attention internally, and they'll automatically pay attention to you.
If you've made contacts within Valve so someone actually remembers you exist, then you might get some of that as well.
I have no clue how http://steamspy.com/dev/xinoro got a feature slot in the anime sale, unless it was just because they're actually Japanese.
>>140937932
They should take care of everything they agree to in their contract, which I've not read. Maybe the devs are signing contracts that stipulate that SP will only tweet about you once, retweet you once and not bring your game to conventions and instead do "Online Exclusives", and that's on them. Maybe not.
However, I've worked for a videogame company that also published games from smaller studios and what we offered them included:
- QA
- Some of our devs to manage to hit deadlines
- All of their PR was done by my company
- Their trailers were done by my company
- Distribution
- Showing a working demo to various journalists so they could write previews about it
And probably other stuff that I forget. While some of these would seem a bit overkill for most EVNs, expecting them to post about the VN on several related sites and not just tweeting once about the release and bringing builds to conventions (which is what I understood they didn't do with ML) would seem like the bare minimum.
I'm bringing this up because what I'm getting from yours and other posts seems to suggest that it's the devs' fault exclusively that they get such a crappy deal. Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't sign with Sekai even if I were panicking about money for any reason, I'd rather ask for a loan or work a second and a third job and these devs should really learn their lesson and never deal with Sekai again, but Sekai itself isn't blameless in this. At best, they're incompetent fuckwits, at worst, they're knowingly pocketing money from the EVNs they "publish" for very little effort on their part.
>>140946591
>expecting them to post about the VN on several related sites and not just tweeting once about the release and bringing builds to conventions (which is what I understood they didn't do with ML) would seem like the bare minimum.
It seems that they submit press releases and/or review keys to various blogs and sites even for little EVNs.
>>140946591
>I'd rather ask for a loan
I agree with a lot of your post, but holy shit this is literally the worst idea.
>>140947208
A surprising number of indie games are funded by maxing out a credit card as a starter loan.
>>140946591
As>>140947065 said, they do make press releases and offer review keys if you ask them. The part irking most people being the "if you ask them", since Sekai really isn't proactive with their EVN.
Sure it's very little effort for them at this point, but I always saw getting published by Sekai being more of a "buy an access to their social medias followers" rather than "buy Sekai's efforts in promoting your game". It's probably just me though.
>>140949794
Maybe I should offer a discount service. I will tweet about your game and I don't even demand a share of profits. Just $50 a tweet. Deal, right?
>>140920085
>It made sense
>playing a game about killing immediately afterthe MC comes out of a hospital getting therapy for beating a girl almost to death
No it fucking doesn't.
Also for people who actually play tabletop roleplay games it didn't make logistical sense because there was no time at all spent on mechanics besides a simple d20 roll. Which it didn't make sense for Airi to use in the first place since it's a shit mechanic that only still sees use because of D&D. And it just didn't feel much like a real play experience.
>>140920324
>It dragged on and on
This too, I thought the length and suddenness of it were both inappropriate to the situation. And it didn't feel like the characters were that invested in it, which makes sense, but there was nothing else to make the players invested in it either.
>>140950573
>bashing d20s
oh, it's on now
>>140952045
Sauce?
>>140922856
I understand your position but disagree. While I can see that you might want to get to the meat of the situation quickly, I found that almost every scene contributed strongly to the characterization and the mystery, which are necessary for the player to be engaged in the central murder mystery premise. Furthermore, I think it's necessary to have a sort of a smokescreen of mundanity for the player to pick out clues from. If nothing happened that wasn't important to the plot, there would have been one or two people that would have been totally obvious as the potential candidates, purely by virtue of the abnormal degree of attention paid to them. Further, I found it necessary to contrast despair and normalcy, from the perspective of portraying the MC's mental health issues. If you want a fast-paced game, you can skip a lot of SoL scenes, but ultimately I don't think that this is a game which should be fast paced in that way. That's not to say it's perfect and couldn't be cut down a bit. In addition to the RP thing, I think there's too many options in the theme park bit. And thehospitalvisits seem just slightly over the sum total length than they should be. But those are a few specific cases.
>>140925889
>With all the internet culture stuff, memes and pop-culture references
While sometimes dumb, the characters felt realistically like teenagers to me. It was a kind of dumb that you seem it real life, I think it was well-written even though I wouldn't expect an adult my age to talk like them.
>Would removing all of the slice of life make the story better
Definitely not all. Removing some might, I think.
>>140926846
Airi is unrealistic, but Akira? You clearly didn't spend much time with autistic loser females in high school. Also,she's not really optimistic, she's just putting on a brave face.
>Elizabeth
I enjoyed her banter and saw her as an outlet for Yama who was mostly separate from school. To me, that's worthwhile for the perspective it adds to Yama's character, in addition to her being best girl.
>Misaki
I agree in this case. I don't think she adds much and could probably have been fused with Elizabeth one way or another without losing too much of what makes either one useful to the story. At least for Inciting Incident.
>I found the memes cringey and juvenile
The characters are juveniles.
>it was one of the best EVNs I've played, but I think it could have been phenomenal, instead of merely good
Yeah, this is pretty much my perspective as well. Only a few small changes are needed, in my opinion, and they are generally the sort of thing that would be better with budget. But so it goes.
>>140952715
https://lemmasoft.renai.us/forums/viewtopic.php?f=43&t=31548
>>140950573
I have been playing tabletop RPG for more than 15 years now, and you are a fucking moron if you think the most important part of the experience is the mechanics. Or maybe you are an autist who can't even crack jokes or take a break during the game to drink beer and eat some pizza while commenting on some ridiculous situation product of a critical failure.
It didn't feel like a real playing experience, that it true. Probably because that would have taken too long and *then* it would have affected the pacing.
>playing a game about killing immediately after...
Yeah, that would trigger anyone. Just like angry birds man, poor peggies r being killd duh. You are not even trying.
>>140954185
>the most important part of the experience is the mechanics
Of course it's not. But dealing with mechanics is part of the game, even in rules-lite systems. It's one thing they got wrong about it.The other parts are also wrong.
>that would have taken too long
It did anyway though.
>that would trigger anyone
Whether it actually would or not, we spent the whole game building up how sensitive this guy is, and then nobody even thinks of that possibility? Hell, at one point he attacks an enemy with a fucking pipe. If you don't think that would have put him off the experience, whether it "triggered" or not, you have clearly never so much as spent time with someone who's been in a bad situation.
>>140954921
First you complain about not going about mechanics long enough and then you say the scene was too long anyway.
Would have been better if they just made cartagra, huh? And even better if they were japanese.
>>140955959
I think it would be better to omit things that can't be done well. I don't see why that's an unusual opinion.
>>140954921
In retrospect, that was a mistake from our part since we actually wrote the RP before the climax (countless rewriting kinda made us loose our sense of appreciation regarding the pacing at the end and messed the writing order of some of the scene). The previous climax written before wasn't supposed to be as emotionally taxing as the current one. It's a scene that necessitated a lot of revisions, to the point where we ended up being kinda desensitized to it. And as a result the transition to the cafe scene can feel out of place. I still think the RP serves a purpose (if only to show off again the sightcode UI again), but we could definitely have made it better.
I will become the martyr of /evn/ by risking a 3 day ban in order to post progress that will get shat on.
>>140958425
>bashing your own work over some admitedly minoritary opinions
So the cool and aloof attitude really attracts all the fangirls. Good to know.
>>140959189
I like her, but the tits feel weightless. Maybe because it's not shaded yet?
>>140959189
I would raise the levels of the colors. It seems too dark at the moment.
>>140959189
Looking good.
>>140959189
>still haven't recovered from one guy's butthurt
Looking good but I'm not really feeling the lipstick. It's too light and it blends in with her mouth.
>>140959189
It's ok. the hair feels off, the bangs look quite bad. it's generic as hell, but not horrible.
>>140959461
>>140959490
The shading will help a lot in those regards, but thanks for the feedback.
>>140959498
Thank you, anon.
>>140959849
The anal devastation was far too great for me to handle. It still hurts whenever I sit down.
I feel you, I requested the tongue color to be changed to a darker red.
>>140960471
Might want to set her against a backgr\ound that isn't blinding white so she can be seen more clearly at this dark stage.
>>140960742
Well this is the background she'll be set against in game.
>>140961525
I assumed it would be fine in game, it's just hard to look at for the moment.
>>140963454
This looks nice
>>140967130
This, however, looks weird.
>>140959432
I'm not taking all the feedback at face value from /evn/ either, but I've had other people complain about the RP scene in other places for similar reasons. So it probably means that it's a slightly more valid concern.
I just wish I had a single good idea, just one;_;
>>140971560
here's an idea: tits
>>140971646
>>140971560
Ideas worth nothing.but if you can provide me full design document, than it's a different story.
>>140971560
Wouldn't help. Then you'd wish you had a competent team of artists to make the assets you need.
>>140971926
>full design document
What's in those? Characters, setting, plot or more?
>>140972932
I'd make them myself, but for the life of me I can't come up with a plot that isn't boring/cliched/shallow/plain retarded and/or would require a reasonable amount of assets.
Teaming up with free writers didn't end well either, they didn't finish their part of the job and what they have written wasn't lending itself well to VN format anyway (too many very short scenes, too many characters, very sparse prose in general but required a ton of bgs/cgs, I'm actually partially happy they've disappeared and I don't have to finish it).
The answer seems to be either to find a writer I mesh well with or drink myself to death.
>>140974157
> be a game dev
> doesn't know what a design document is
anon please.
>>140974945
I'm just a lowly artist fampai.
>>140974945
They do vary by circumstances, studio, and target audience though. So if someone wants to see one and you don't know them, you might not know how much detail they need.
Age of Decadence is the best evn released to date
prove me wrong. protip: you can't
>>140924338
that's brutal. i think i'm going to pity buy the game
>>140926071
Good luck getting on sites like Siliconera without Sekai :^)
>>140980024
>email 'journalist'
>'journalist' posts what you tell him to
gosh it's so hard
>>140980217
>Email journalist when you're not a publishing company or friends with them
>Move to Trash
So dumb, so naive.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KdHCA1Pht8s
>>140980024
>Siliconera
Probably should've used a better example site, because they'll run anything.
>>140959189
I was in the middle of a month long break from /evn/ and what do I smell? A fucking tracer. God it stinks of tracing in here. I just couldn't handle it. So I load up my browser, pull up /evn/ for the first time in almost a month and what do I see? You dirty mother fucker.
>>140982873
I love you
>>140982873
Thanks anon, I was starting to thirst for my daily dose!
How much money should I be expecting to have to shell out to an artist?
I ask for a friend.
>>140982873
oh well the worst poster is back
>>140983841
$180/sprite for pro level
$50/sprite for amateur
>>140983841
Your firstborn child and virginity should cover it.
>>140983975
>$180/sprite for pro level
post this 'pro level' you speak of.
>>140984140
it would blind you
>>140983841
75-150 for backgrounds
Some nice anon posted a spreadsheet of sprite prices from lemmasoft in an earlier thread.
>>140984197
with its ugliness? Thought as much.
>>140984314
Tell me this isn't worth every penny.
Go on.
I dare you.
>>140983880
Why would you say that about me? Do you have any idea how fragile I am?
Besides, it's pathetic how you all are letting these threads die so often without my help.
>>140984495
But can you top this?!
>>140984895
best girl
best EVN I've ever played
it's going to have a general devoted to it that would run for 7000 years
>>140984787
Whatever, Tracey.
>>140985175
Call me by my full name...
DICK Tracy. Trace detective extraordinaire.
>>140984895
Psssh. Nothing personnel... kid.
>>140974945
People actually use design documents?
also
>game dev
As if EVN devs come even close to game devs. They're better grouped as authors for books.
>>140986338
>They're better grouped as authors for books.
Not me, I can only do art.
>>140986338
I do but I actually do art for my games.
So any new visual novel engines to mess around with? Any cool updates to existing ones? Any news on Live2D for Ren'Py?
Anyone going to get into VRVNs? Saw one the other day and it looks pretty good actually.
>>140988592
Can you explain how that would work? Are they still 2D sprites?
>>140988592
Can you imagine trying to read textboxes in 3D for hours on end? No thanks.
>>140980394
I'm not a publishing company or a friend. It still works.
>>140988351
why would you want a new engine
to spend more time learning engines and not get a game written?
unless you want a vr engine or something
at least that would be new
>>140991218
name game
>>140988592
You don't mean this one do you?
First of all, to anyone wanting a VR VN scene.. They're going to need to fix text in VR, because the fresnel lenses they're using right now just don't cut it for reading. It really sucks. I do every bit of reading I need to do outside of VR and only use VR for limited reading or visual stuff. If there was a narrator, or the text was really huge it might work I guess.
>>140991932
What is that and can you fuck her?
>>140991353
I want a new engine because Ren'Py is old and outdated... and people can just look at all your files without even playing your game. There's no Live2D, and the updates don't do much for it. There isn't a single good VN engine out there. We should have much better options.
>>140992354
You could write it in Unity, no one is stopping you brah.
>>140992354
>We should have much better options.
Why? EVNs are pretty niche, it's not that surprising no one else has produced a better engine.
>>140992775
VNs in general are a joke. Have you seen those streamers just shitting on them?
>>140992354
VNs are outdated. Why don't you try a real game genre.
>>140992354
Why don't you just make your own instead of constantly whining about no one doing the heavy lifting for you?
>>140992354
CM3D and you probably can.
>>140992414
I know how to use Unity, and every other engine. I'm just lazy. I'd rather spend my time making the assets.
>>140992775
>>140992892
Who cares, most streamers are idiots anyway and their audiences are some of the worst people to ever grace the Internet. 10 year olds have nothing better to do these days than watch twitch streams all day. I don't think it's VNs as a genre that is shit, I think it's because everyone making them is a bit of a joke. Most Japanese couldn't write a story or proper characters to save their lives. Of course weeaboobs eat it up, but it's mostly shit to be honest. EVNs are mostly just copying Japanese shit, so of course they're going to suck as well. If you take a piece of shit and make more piles of shit based on it it's still going to be shit. The only thing that makes most of the Japanese ones less shit is they have higher budgets and more professional studios making them. Also they get weeaaboob points for being Japanese origin of course. VNs can be about anything. Why regurgitate the same stupid anime shit because that's all Japan can do? The only ones killing VNs are idiot creators.
>>140992964
I remember when people thought books were going to go away because they were outdated. Good times. They're still here despite the modern tech.
>>140993229
CM3D or CM3D2?
>>140992964
No.
>>140993168
No.
>>140993492
>EVNs are mostly just copying Japanese shit
Have you seen some EVNs in here? People legit don't even want to do that. It's a good majority at this point who are doing western shit.
>>140993701
>It's a good majority at this point who are doing western shit.
Oh nice. Show me some.
>>140993168
Would people actually be up for a new engine?
>>140993516
Nobody likes pixel art now that we have vectors
Nobody plays 2D games now that we have 3D graphics
Nobody buys games now that we have F2P
Nobody reads books now that we've invented hypertext
Nobody will read your VN on an engine that was written more than a year ago, god, you're so dumb.
>>140993993
Only if it's actually good and tight and not some stupid shitshow like TyranoBuilder. It obviously needs Live2D support, all the obvious things that make VNs VNs, etc. It isn't that hard to get all the must have features together, and most of them are just text based features. Every engine that comes out is a joke in one way or another though. Enough of this shit already.
Also, the EVN creation community is pretty small, so I'm not sure you'd find worth in creating it. Who knows though.
>>140994150
>Nobody will read your VN on an engine that was written more than a year ago, god, you're so dumb.
That's not the argument. The argument is that the features and the base it's built on suck and something else could easily be superior. It's more from a creator standpoint than a player standpoint argument, but could benefit both.
>>140994812
Putting PyTom out of business when?
so, time for another survey of what the most recent english releases on VNDB are
First, we have >>140994363 this weird thing, which looks like it's trying to rip off Japan in the 90s for artistic purposes.
Then there's Selenon Rising, which desperately wants to be Danganronpa.
Zeitlos Sigil isn't very japanese looking but it's hideous. Avoid.
Starlit Flowers is definitely in a more western cartoon art style.
Anomie... might want to be Stein's Gate? I'm not sure. At least it's not a moe high school.
Ciikos Bridge certainly feels anime-related but it doesn't look like a ripoff of anything in particular that I can see.
Rising Angels still wishes it were a Japanese series, but at least they're not weebing it up with Japanese dubbing.
Drusilla Dreams is somewhere between the east and west in its art attempt and came out ugly.
C14 Dating has Deji's so-happy-shiny anime art, but the game is pure western Tumblr.
Normal Boots Club is obviously taking a western subject and applying "cute anime dating sim" to it.
Most projects are a bit of mix-and-match. I don't think any of those people are HERE though.
>>140994976
Never unfortunately. Ren'Py is a passion project for him, and there's no money in creating an awesome VN engine because there just isn't a solid userbase for it. So we're stuck learning to make our own thing or use some dude's nasty jizz covered passion project.
>>140995159
Heirs & Graces is coming out soon, but it has a terrible case of yaoi anatomy.
>>140995159
Don't forget Brilliant Shadows and that series. Pretty firmly in the land of the western.
>>140995640
If Clamp can get away with it, we can get away with it.
I'm going to make a VN engine just so I don't have to hear bitching about muh Live2D ever again.
>>140995796
Why not just move to a real game engine?
You can do the same thing, but better.
>>140995715
Brilliant Shadows, a game that had plenty of advertising and exposure. Even got played by Dodger on her YouTube channel. The game appears to have high production value, or at least above average and has been released for around half a year at the less than 10 dollar price range. All this in mind, it is only estimated to be at around 4,000 total sales.
These things really don't sell well do they? Even the shittiest pixel platformers can easily sell 10k copies.
>>140996236
It isn't anime. Problem solved, anon.
>>140995762
yeah, but look at this.
>>140996691
Can you show me some good anime themed EVNs that sold well?
>>140996764
At least the old lady looks pretty awesome. The middle guy looks mostly passable. The elf guy looks passable too, but yeah the faces are a little off. Coloring is naisu though.
>>140996795
HRP raised 50k on Kickstarter
>>140996795
The Sakura games are always a good fallback to that.
>>140996236
>>140996691
Brilliant Shadows' selling point was ~diversity~.
>>140996795
All Sakura games. They're the best EVNs got since no one else has sufficient budget or storytelling skills.
>>140997315
... are you implying that the sakura games have good storyrelling?
>>140997070
That makes me sad. We have to rely on being as close to animu as possible to even have a chance at being marketable.
>Sakura games
So huge boobs and overly generic animu girls? Wow, this world is full of surprises.
Were the Sakura games even any good? Was the budget spent wisely, or is it all just lolol quirky boobs in your face all day long?
>>140997770
>We have to rely on being as close to animu as possible to even have a chance at being marketable.
That's not true and you know it. Stop making excuses for your own failure.
Does Sekai Project help fund your game?
>>140997770
>hasn't even played Sakura games
>shitting on them already
Absolutely disgusting.
>>140993701
What general do you live in?
>no one wants to play EVNs
>Sakura Angels, 100k copies sold, mostly positive reviews
>go to store page.. most generic boobie VN i've ever seen
Well, looks like I don't have to worry about not being able to make interesting characters or write stories since I can draw a pretty mean generic animu girl with boobs popping out.
>>140998094
Yes
>>140998205
So what's good about them exactly? Please enlighten me.
>>140997871
Prove me otherwise. Currently the argument is strongly in my favor because of steamspy. Go ahead, I'll wait.
>>140998312
I mean, you could. But then you wouldn't be on /evn/, since that's clearly not what a person would join /evn/ for.
>>140998589
Western art is shit. Not even westerners want western art. Generic animu is god's gift to the art world, visual novels, and boob lovers everywhere.
>>140997439
Are you kidding? Look at all that PLOT!
>>140998756
Westerners hardly care about art. They love choices though. Give them a hundred of them and they'll love your game.
>>140998880
So base body, base face, tons of different colors for skin, eyes, lips, a few different hairs and lots of hair colors, some accessories like cat ears, tails, wings, horns, the usual, and make the boobs huge and styled after a boobjob surgeon's wedream? Also name the game something highly Japanesey by adding Sakura or something similar to it? I can see the dollar signs already.
>>140998458
>stays true to Japanese roots
>plays the tropes right
>art has no flaws
>perfect atmoshpere
>that soundtrack
>>140998589
>But then you wouldn't be on /evn/
I happen to love anime titty games, thanks much.
>>140999209
No, they love realism. They don't like it when it's Japanese.
>>140999312
>art has no flaws
It's hard to have flaws when you use such a generic style. The faces are basically cut and paste, mix and match. The body is 80% covered by the tits.
>>140999543
>They don't like it when it's Japanese.
That's obvious bullshit. If you're going to lie make it less obvious.
>>140995715
I was just listing off the literal most recent releases on VNDB. Brilliant Shadows was ages ago
>>140996236
>Even the shittiest pixel platformers can easily sell 10k copies.
Honey. You are sadly mistaken. Every now and then we get these big news stories about a group of enthusiastic indies who got together and spent a ton of money making a platformer and then sold about two hundred copies.
They manage a few more after the boo-hoo article, of course, but the fact remains. It's absolutely not true that even the shittiest platformer sells 10K, or even that all mediocre platformers sell 10K. Honestly, mediocre VNs do surprisingly well.
Of course, it's hard to track legitimate sales these days because the absolute DREG games on Steam whore themselves out to Indiegala and Groupees and what-have-you to "sell" thousands of copies of their games in a bundle for $50 total, a week after the steam launch, because they've just realised nobody is going to buy their crap. So yes, there are some games tatht look like actual shit crawled out of the sewer that will show a high owner count, but not because people bought them.
So if I just want to make money off of people like >>140999312
I should just copy Sakura Angels and games like that? I don't care about making a good VN that no one will play, I just want to make people give me as much money as possible for the least amount of work possible. It seems like boobie games are the only VNs that really sell.
>>141000671
>Honestly, mediocre VNs do surprisingly well.
You might be mostly right about your post, but I am absolutely not buying that part. Steamspy is the most honest metric we have to go by.
>>141000932
>caring about steam
Not all EVNs are on there.
>>140997770
>That makes me sad. We have to rely on being as close to animu as possible to even have a chance at being marketable.
Do you know how to logic even slightly? Someone asked for an example of an anime-style game that did well. One was provided. Suddenly you say "Oh, I guess a game has to have manga art to have a chance at being marketable, sob sob"
So HRP raised 50K on kickstarter. Coming Out On Top raised 40K and it's not standard anime. 50K isn't even much money once a game starts selling. You can't grab some random data point and spin an entire conspiracy theory out of it.
>>140999312
The art is generic garbage designed to be a pre-teen's first wet dream before they realize there's way better stuff out there. Acquire some taste you pleb.
>>141000932
I don't think you understand what I mean by surprisingly well. I mean you can track that not-very-good VNs are still selling a thousand copies or two, without even involving bundles.
That's easy money, for a shit game.
It's hardly a hit but it's still 'surprisingly well'.
>>141000672
>It seems like boobie games are the only VNs that really sell.
>I did my entire business model research by asking a 4chan thread what game sold the most and taking their word for it
>>141000672
>It seems like boobie games are the only VNs that really sell.
All you need is some good old fashioned sex. Tits aren't mandatory.
>>141001070
>>141001153
Yeah, because since they aren't on Steam they are making tons of money right? Must be nice living in fantasy land.
>>141001284
You do realize you have to pay Steam fees, taxes, and it's a royal pain in the ass to deal with that stuff right? 2,000 sales for something someone made in a couple hours spare time or barely spent any time on at a few bucks a sale is alright. Something selling 2,000 copies or less that someone actually spent time and effort on for a couple bucks or less is nothing. McDonalds would make you a millionaire in comparison.
>>141001405
What do you consider to be the most successful EVNs popularity wise?
>>141001405
You're silly if you think I'm basing anything on the opinions found here. I'm only adding them to my knowledgebase. You'd be surprised how small the audience for EVNs is.
>Tits aren't mandatory.
Not sure I can agree with that. Sales and people talking say otherwise.
>>141001701
Katawa Shoujo
>>141001430
If I sell a porn game with the sex scenes removed on steam and promote their addition via a download, does that really help boost sales?
>>141001728
A BL game just raised $39k on Kickstarter.
>>141001776
Not if it doesn't have tits. The tits all over the images and cover are what make people want the sex in the first place.
>>141001750
0 dollars earned. Yes, free games are surprisingly popular.
>>141001560
>You do realize you have to pay Steam fees, taxes, and it's a royal pain in the ass to deal with that stuff right?
???
Steam deducts their cut before they pay you. You have to pay your taxes, yes, but you have to pay your taxes whatever job you have. I have no idea what you're talking about with the 'royal pain in the ass'.
>2,000 sales for something someone made in a couple hours spare time or barely spent any time on at a few bucks a sale is alright.
To the best of my knowledge the average price is $10, maybe around $7 after Steam's cut. 2000 copies times $7 is certainly not a good job's income, but if you make the game in a couple months of your spare time, it's not so bad.
>>141001876
Link please.
>>141002029
>you have to pay your taxes
NOT
CONSTITUTIONALLY
AUTHORIZED
>>141001728
>You'd be surprised how small the audience for EVNs is.
At least 500,000 players. Small compared to what console games need to sell, but I can live with it.
>>141002047
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/11313010/seiyuu-danshi-english-bl-yaoi-dating-sim-visual-no
>>141001876
SD was generic anime trash, though. Unless the final product is dramatically better than the demo, it's going to be the sakura of BL.
>>141002164
>500,000
Source?
>>141002029
Um.. You don't choose the price point that you sell your game at. Steam does. Also that steam cut is a whopping %30.
>>141002241
Are you literally incapable of doing anything but being spoonfed? Where do you THINK those numbers might be coming from? Hint: publicly available data.
>>141002408
So steam? Inaccurate data.
