Warhammer 40k general - Can someone put anon out of his misery and add the burning dawn rules to the mega? edition
http://www.mediafire.com/download/3djktqezeav7dsp/DamoclesWarzoneOperationShadowtalonBurningDawn.pdf
>Rules databases
https://mega.co.nz/#F!pFgm0RKR!J06C1gVYcjzNGsF8YNLsjQ
https://kat.cr/warhammer-40k-pdf-library-t9575373.html
>FAQs
http://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Rules-Errata
>40k 7th edition quick reference sheet(s)
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4104995/Games/7edRef_V6.pdf
>Forgeworld Book index
http://www.dakkadakka.com/wiki/en/Forge_World_and_Apocalypse_Rules_Index
>/TG/ Argument lore and tactica
https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Butthurt
>Other stuff missing from this possibly out of date copypasta
Will no doubt be posted by angry anons in the first few replies
Does anyone have the novels link? I forgot my book at home.
Pardon me, best psyker coming through.
>>46090974
>requires warp charges to get his powers off.
>>46090874
If your pasta is stale then yes, page 10 is to early.
>>46090990
>not even having powers to use warp charges on
>tfw necron so no psychic powers
>>46090999
I mainly felt sorry for the guy that keeps posting the solaq/burning dawn stuff and wanted to get that included. Also, at least I drew attention to the pasta possibly being stale, hopefully people will post anything that needs to be added (and/or the updated image).
>>46091042
Why use psychic powers to see the future when you can just go back in time and adjust things to how they should have been?
>>46090990
>Mfw my daemon army averages 20-25+d6 a turn
>>46091116
>mfw my army wins
>>46091094
Necrons can time travel?
Why are we even fighting? no one can compete with that.
Spent a year painting my army. Almost ready for my first game.
>>46091164
Hope you're excited to lose your 'getting rules wrong' virginity.
I claim dis thread for da orks
>>46091169
Is it true that there's blood the first time?
>>46091195
Only if you're playing Khorne
>>46091172
>I2
>>46091116
>generate 30 dice across a dozen different psykers
>maybe half will actually cast spells
>half of those will be really useful, the rest will either be Conjurations because why not or shitty magic guns
I really hope 8e does something to fix the psychic phase. Ideally they'll move more towards the WHFB7e/8e casting system.
![latest[1].gif](https://i.imgur.com/U12yrPW.gif "latest[1].gif")
Is it so hard to find a Basilisk NIB for less than $50USD? I thought they were a crap unit, WHY ARE THEY SO EXPENSIVE?!
Can a Big Mek take a KFF and also take a ranged weapon? My instincts say no, since the KFF replaces the slugga, leaving the emk without a ranged weapon, and all the ranged weapons say replace.
>>46090990
>only registering in the warp as much as a grazing herd animal
Stay lower lifeform xenos scum
>>46091226
My thought on Orks and their crap init is that they're convinced they're the toughest motherfuckers around, so they always give the enemy the first punch-to be sporting.
Unfortunately, they're NOT the toughest motherfuckers around, so very often the first hit ends up being the last.
>>46091446
If that's true then why do my orks always run away from everything?
>>46091463
They're boldly heading off to find a better scrap
>>46091463
>so they can ave anuvver go
>>46091384
Welcome to 40k, where you pay top price for shit product.
>>46091158
Only one Necron can time travel.
>>46091386
Ranged Weapons no, but you can still take a ranged weapon from the Mek Weapons and if desperate take Da Dead Shiny Shoota relic for 5 points.
List of thing gone out of production from today:
SM Master of the Relics
Old Iron Priest
Lighting Claws kit
Wolf Guard Battle Leader
Ammo Runts
Chaos Bikes upgrade sprue
Sister of Battle Dialogus
Chaos Mutations sprue
Death Guard shoulderpads
Emperor's Children shoulderpads
Silver Skulls shoulderpads
Command Vehicles sprue
Vostroyan official with power sword
Astra Militarum Crew
Catachan Demolition Team
>>46091463
>always run away
>I2
Orks never run, because sweeping advance exists.
>>46091571
SO it would be possible for me to stick a KFF and rokkit launcha on him to have him protect my tankbusta's ride and still contribute to the firing?
>>46091611
Yes but as I said you have to buy the relic weapon and then replace that with the Mek Weapon, so its a ten point investment.
>>46091589
>Sisters of battle dialogus
Wasn't the sacred banner dropped too?
>>46091195
Yeah but make sure you get it and not your opponent because that point can be a game winner in some gametypes.
>>46091647
Which would eat my relic allowance. That's pretty shit.
>>46091671
Yes, so both the Repressor and the Immolator.
Am I right in thinking a model is always classed as stationary for aiming if they are on a bike?
Just thinking of putting a gitfinder on my wifes bikerboss, for those rare turns when he isn't jinking
>>46091737
No. They can fire heavy weapons if they have moved, but anything that actually requires they not move still does.
>>46091769
thankyou wise anon, also waagh
>>46091737
>46091737
>>46091769
Otherwise SM Raptors on bikes firing rending boltguns on the move would be a thing.
>>46091737
Gitfindas are different because they are bound by any movement clause.
Relentless and SNP doesn't stop the Gitfinda from being shit and not giving its benefit, because retarded GW.
>>46091737
Nah, gitfinda specifically says they must remain stationary in the movement phase. Also, relentless doesn't actually say anything about counting as stationary if you're firing Assault or Rapid Fire guns, just that you can charge afterwards.
How do I ork?
I'm thinking of starting with a boss and painboy on bikes with some bike nobz. What should I do after that?
>>46091384
Then just don't fucking buy it
>>46091892
Warboss
Painboy
Grots
Tankbustas
Warbikers
Mek Guns
Avoid:
>Nobz
>Gorkanauts
>Deff Dreads
>Burna Boys
>Stormboys
>Boys
>Nob Bikers
>Kommandos
>Dakka Jets
>Flash Gitz
>Lootas
There you go, now you have a shot at winning.
>>46091942
What's wrong with Lootas?
>>46091949
>BS2
>Lalrundam
>AP4
I wonder.
So little thing, how do I start playing tau without getting hated on too much and for a reasonable price? I just like the models and the idea of a more tactical shooting armynot to mention mecha. Farsight Enclaves seemed neat, but are they worth it at low points for someone getting into the army? Ideally I'd like to be able to play either so its like two armies in one.
At the moment I was thinking of finding the start collecting box online along with a pathfinders box and a hammerhead, that doesn't do a lot for playing Enclaves though. I considered just getting the retaliation force bundle off ebay for like $60 less than list price, but that would mean starting out I'd be bringing a riptide to 500 point games just because thats what I'd have and I heard thats a dick move.
>>46092007
Lootas can kind of work because they're basically using Autocannons, just a bit less reliably.
Still, its on a cheap platform and has a lot of range.
>>46092034
Run Tau as CAD. Don't use any MC or larger battle suits. That should avoid most of the hate.
The differences between farsight Enclaves and normal Tau are rather minimal now, so I wouldnt worry too much about getting the best use out of it.
You don't usually need to optimize to do well as Tau
>>46092053
they're heavy though, aren't they?
gunz are better
>>46092034
Leave the formations alone and use a CAD. That cuts out a fair bit of the cheese.
Riptides at low points games look dodgy, but the heavy burst cannon variant isn't really that bullshit.
>>46090874
Where were you when SM were kill?
>>46092053
Its also in the Heavy slot and has a Boystatline.
Mek Guns are always the go to choice, if Lootas were Elite there would be no argument that they'd be a nice purchase, but even a full size 15 boy squad, which won't last, is killing 2.8 Meqs on a good day.
And then you take wounds and they fail leadership and beat themselves up and roll less and then your investment has just gone.
>>46092099
They're heavy, but have a 48" range. They don't need to be marching upfield.
>>46091942
>>46091949
>>46092007
>>46092053
My lootas almost always work wonders. You can't judge a unit off of it's profile alone. Two units of 15 lootas in cover are virtually certain to destroy many light/medium vehicles and delete units of fire warriors unless dealt with. That gives the rest of the boys time to move up. That's really their main benefit - covering the advance.
>>46092053
That anon is being pessimistic. Lootas can work, but tankbustas are better.
>>46091892
You need Deffkoptaz. All of them. Take as many as you can in a CAD. Seriously, 5 Deffkoptas with TL Rokkit-Launchas is one of the most point efficent units in the ork Codex.
>>46092126
Which Mek Guns do better and more reliably.
Lootas fold to any sort of focus.
>could enter the lives of plants and animals
>the Emperor has levels in Druid
>>46090990
the funniest thing about this post is that Tau are one of the most objectively over-matched codices against strong psychic phases
>19 lootas+big mek with MFF in a Gargantuan Squiggoth
Is this good or really good?
>>46092123
yeah but it's kind of hard to top crewed guns and bustas
>>46092083
So just go with my original purchase plan?
I'd be bringing a bare ethereal, two five man strike teams with the sarge upgrade and markerlights + target lock, three crisis suits with double ion blasters, a bare four man pathfinder team, and a hammerhead with submunitions. A few extra points for misc upgrades to toss around like sensor spines for the hammerhead. What about expansion without the large suits? Just more little suits and tanks?
>>46092100
So again, just stick to standard detachments. I guess the heavy suits aren't too bad depending on the army I'm fighting without them if I don't spam?
>>46092146
I agree that mek guns are probably better all around. I run them in my IA8 dread mob because mek guns aren't an option. I'm just saying that even as they are they can do some dark work if you can keep them alive for a couple turns. My opponent can choose to deal with them early but then he's giving my 9 dreads and 10 kans more time to move up.
IG Codex when
>>46092231
My anecdotal evidence is that in 15+ games played this year I can count the amount of hits and wounds my lootas have done on two hands.
Then they get deepstriked and or focused and die same turn. Given up trying to promote them as a decent unit because access to Str 7. If they were BS3 I'd have no issues.
>>46092205
Don't forget about the Drones that come with all those kits either.
As for other purchases, stuff like a a stealth team or broadside would work, though the best advice is to pick the models you like.
Larger suits can be okay at higher point levels in small numbers, but once you hit 3 it gets kind of crazy
>>46092205
>What about expansion without the large suits? Just more little suits and tanks?
more infantry, too
>>46092268
Lootas being twin-linked or having Gitfindas would solve a lot of their problems.
>>46091384
Thats your problem bud, you want new in box.
Its retail 49.95 US, so almost any retailer/used seller knows that they can get at least retail price or, at most, 10% off.
If you want cheap Bassies just get them used, its a simple sculpt anyways so its not like there are tons of conversion options, unless you plan on putting a dif gun on it. Suck it up bud, I got my Bassie for like 20$.
>>46092255
You just got your update in Damocles. Enjoy it.
>>46092268
You do realize that if you'd taken something else those would be deep striked and/or focused instead of lootas? That's how 40k works. Units dies. Unless you play decurion of course.
>Give daemons a look
>They seem kinda fun with their retarded daemon shitting and lolsorandumb special rules
>Don't think my friend would be able to handle them with how he likes to play just focusing on melee units.
Do the Imperial Guard have a greater model?
>>46092326
Mek guns are running around with T4 though.
>>46092343
Aren't*
>>46092338
They honestly don't.
Sentinels number 1 best in the Galaxy, accept no substitutes.
>>46092268
Yikes that sucks anon. I can't blame you then. As I said, I don't have the mek guns option. My playgroup contains IG, CSM, Tau, and Nids so I don't have to deal with a lot of 3+ armor. I can focus them on stuff they can actually damage and let the AP2 walkers go after the heavy stuff. Also, only the nid player has any deep striking units. Against him I can expect them to get mulched early but I'll usually keep then near one of the dread squads to discourage it.
>>46092302
Gitfindas would be a godsend but I think people would cry OP.
>>46092326
The montka book? lmao 1000 point minimum bring with no upgrades/wargear. Its fun but only viable for 1850 point+ games.
>>46092275
Not really sure what to do with drones. Is it worth it to take them or save points to buy other unit selections? Marker drones seem great but I don't know where to put them thats cost effective.
As for things I like the forgeworld suits look really cool, but again I don't want to be overbearing or that guy so maybe like one as a centerpiece at high points?
>>46092275
I was thinking another strike team and transports for both squads, I don't really like how kroot look. Are breachers even worth getting?
>>46092402
Yeah, those are the cards you've been dealt.
>>46092327
daemons are THE #elite assault codex
They are definitely more than enough of a match for any other melee focused army. Even just a couple units of daemonettes and bloodletters can go toe-to-toe with most assault lists. Throw in psyker support/FMCs/quality heavy support options and they have a distinct advantage. If you want to keep it real interesting try mostly khorne lists or even KDK and just let the blood flow
>>46092356
>>46092343
You're right, they're running around with T7.
>>46092338
stock russ is a close contender
>>46092268
Yea I red the ork and Ghazghul book for shits and giggles, and though we don't have any Ork players in our group, I really feel for you guys!
With just about everything in the book you can say "well, its ok, if it was 2/3 of the price", and shit that shouldn't even be up for discussion (such as assaulting from deep strike with your storm boys, or assaulting with your commandos from outflank the turn they arrive) as it would be super fluffy, is simply stripped away as it is deemed to powerful.
The few units you have that make sense, are all packed in one place to squabble for a place in the FOC.
And many things, from an outsiders view, looks as if it could have easily been fixed with a better suited points cost, or just adding the right wargear to the right unit (such as a git-finder to the lootas for instance). All in all, it just seems they get some cool stuff, that is gimped due to pure unfairness of the Codex author, take the Supa-Gatler for instance, wicked concept, great and fun rules thats instantly destroyed by the "roll a double and no more shooting rest of the game". Hell, it would have been over the top to say "roll a double and something has gone wrong, dismiss the Supa-Gatler´s shooting this turn", but for the rest of the battle? Seriously, what the fuck?
Has there ever been a chapter that outdid the chapter they succeeded more than the Black Templars?
>>46092338
Sentinel is my fav too closely followed by old russ and the Kasrikins
So yesterday I got a game in against Full Suit Tau.
He kind of has a reputation of being that guy.
Here is what happened:
I run a Librarian Conclave and since you roll for Psychic Powers before deployment I rolled for invisibilityfuck you I was playing Tauand once I got that I gave the last Librarian two rolls on Divination. (The other two were in Telepathy but only one got invis)
The whole time I was rolling he asked a few time what unit which librarian was in and complaining about the psychic phase and how it ruins games, blah blah blah.
Now it was my understanding (and fairly clearly the rulebook's as well) that you roll for Psychic Powers before deployment so my Librarians were just in their conclave before I split them up.
This upset him and he tried to prove me wrong in the book but kept babbling about how dumb psykers are instead.
Just checking if I was being a WAAC prick.2500 pts he had 2 Riptides, 1 Stormsurge and an OSC against my White Scars
>>46092411
1-3 shield or 2+ gun drones on units that will come under fire are good. Deep striking suits or broadsides are example, then again broads can take missile drones which are usually better. In 4th edition I used to take 4-5 strong gun drone squadron to deep strike and hunt rear armors and support units. Fun times.
Marker drones are usually in 3 different uses:
1.Buffmander+Big crisis team+unit upgrade marker drones. BS5 twinlinked marker drones and serious dakka on one deathstary unit.
2.Drone controller commander and squadron of marker drones. Lightened version of the 1.variation. BS5 drones and backline utility. On upside you don't have to go full buffmander on this.
3.Markerlight stealthsuit shas'vre with 2 marker drones. Throw in drone controller for bs3 drones. Bit expensive but you get small harrashing squad with some markerlight utility. Also good reminder that markerlight doesn't replace the shas'vres main gun and stealth suits comes with multi-tracker so you can pepper with fusion blaster/burst cannon while you light targets up.
>>46092546
Sounds good to me. Enjoy your weaboo tears.
>>46092418
Thanks for the suggestion, I was just more interested in a Tzeentch theme which seems to have shitty units but t hey can spam summon bloodletters for days. So I might try toning it down to a CSM tzeentch army that has less summoning power.
>>46092580
Oh I did, the guy is a joke. He always wants to play high point games so people have "ways of dealing with his big suits" but then bitches and moans the second someone shoots at anything larger than a broadside.
God forbid you assault him and have to listen to a memorized speech on how Tau Suits should be at least as strong as multiple Dreadnaughts in CC.
His spiel about psykers was hard enough to listen to.
My invis Lib went in my command squad and that upset him a bunch, meanwhile his Commander has like 6 Drones and the controller thing and was just raping my jink save.
>>46092546
>tau crying about the psychic phase
Sounds like you did everything right. Did you shriek a riptide to death?
>>46092546
>I played the waac scars with one of the strongest formations
Nice, you want your cookie too?
But yeah, you roll psychic powers before deployment so nothing wrong in there.
>>46092651
>Commander w/ drones unit
Lascannons. Lots of lascannons. I went against a Tau player who tried tanking for his marker drones with his commander unit. Popped it with two lascannon HWT's on turn one (S9=Instant Death, AP2, and I ordered them to Ignore Cover; he didn't have an invuln save). He spent the rest of the game trying desperately to put markerlights on things with BS2.
>>46092573
So use the first two types to pad out units that will be in the thickest fighting. As for marker drones that last option sounds fun, and I do like the stealth suits. Lastly I've been told broadsides are one of the best things I can pick up, but I'm just not very into them. Are they really a 'must have' like I've been told?
>>46092546
P 23 Generating Psychic Powers "Psykers generate their psychic powers before the game begins."
P 166 Independent characters "An independent character can begin the game already with a unit, either by being deployed in unit coherency with it or, if the unit is in reserve, by you informing your opponent of which unit it has joined"
This leads me to believe you did right by the book. I read it as powers, generated before you even start with the game, when the list is built so to speak. Joining characters, is during deployment, and in the game set up phase.
I know Crusader squads are meant for melee given there chapter tactics but is it a bad idea to give them bolters and have them be shooty? or instead is it possible or a good idea to take tactical squads with crusaders in a BT army?
>>46092411
I tend to find Markerdrones work in a lot of squads, though if you're worried you can always make them a separate squad.
My personal favorite use is sticking them in a Stealth team and giving the shasvre a marker light as well. 3 shots and the drones benefit from the cover save as the whole team jets around.
>>46092726
Las-Plas 5 mans live again with the Crusader Squad. If you're BTs I think Crusader squads may be better than Tac Squads in all cases except combat squadding.
>>46092726
I'd you go for shooty crusader squads, take them as 5 man and abuse the fact they can take a heavy and special weapon at 5.
That will serve you better than tacticals unless you want to combat squad, but generally those 5 man teams will be more efficient regardless.
>>46092700
You'll hear that almost any unit in tau codex is one of the best things ever. Take it with a grain of salt. That being said broadsides can put out silly ammount of s7 shooting. And with single support item slot they can be kitted out as anti-air, anti-deepstrikes or just bulk up. They can't move and fire accurately unless you dump lots of markerlight on them so mostly they want to stay still. Broadsides are not mandatory in any way.
Gun drones gives out surprisingly good ammount of dakka for their cost if you ever get in range and double up as ablative wounds. Shield drones have the upside of taking those lascannon and krak missile hits and survive half of the time.
>>46092657
>Did you shriek a riptide to death?
Nah but I did do it to his commander and popped all his dumb drones
>>46092682
I don't usually play anything over 1850 but he really wanted to see my full army so I obliged. I usually only bring one lib at 1850.
What kind of cookies are we working with?
>>46092693
That is a good idea. The Shriek really messed up his plans.
>>46092724
>"An independent character can begin the game already with a unit."
He had to read the Conclave rules and all about independent characters outloud twice until he gave up. He was really trying to make all 3 of my librarians stay in a group but the one person watching us was on my side and we were just like "Come on, no."
>>46092726
BT tacs aren't bad, in fact they can be identical before upgrades so at low points you won't feel a difference running bolter crusaders. Neophytes can pad out wounds for shooty squads just like assault oriented squads and shoot just as well as the marines. I like to use them as a source of power mauls though, I feel like people forget them a lot but they're great. Just remember you lose combat squad but you can just take multiple five man teams if you want to do that.
>>46092775
>>46092782
Cool good to know. I was thinking of making a somewhat competitive BT army (not WAAC) but I had a hard time debating if i should give them CC weapons or bolters. Was thinking of runing them in a Land raider crusader as a squad of 10 In and 5 neo with a character sound good still as a shooty group? then make assault hammernators and assault ironclads in drop pods
>>46092806
sounds like a plan
>>46092843
here is what i was thinking
What is more effective.
Lootas or Dakkajets?
As I can make it 130 points gets you
9/12 Bs3 Twl 6/4 shots on a flying platform.
Or 9-27 Bs 2 7/4 shots on a t- shirt model.
Also keeping in mind the units they share FoC slot with.
>>46092843
Assault is probably the better option for a large blob in a crusader.
>>46092843
If LRC, go choppy.
If las-plas. rhinos.
>>46092910
Neither but if you had to go with one Dakkajets
>>46092910
This reminds me of an old Conan skit where one of the band members were giving awards. One of the categories were "Best male lead or Country".
>>46092768
So kinda like more mobile pathfinders with more bite but less markerlights? Sounds cool.
>>46092790
So just a lot of long range firepower thats really static and good upgrade options like the other suits? They feel really inflexible though without relentless compared to the rest of the army options and I'm not really feeling the model so I guess I'll stay away from it for now and get my AA elsewhere.
Thanks for all the help.
>>46092926
>>46092930
OK good to know. I guess the last question is I heard that they can some how get Objective Secured is this true? or a bunch of crap?
>>46092949
Yeah. I run the Marker Stealth team alongside a couple other pathfinder squads. It works quite well.
>>46092693
>not putting a sheild generator on his commander
>Putting commander in front of the 14 ppm drones instead of behind and then rolling for look our sirs
between that and the whiny anti psychic guy >>46092546
it's no wonder we all the the reputation as braindead WAACers
I got tabled by a list of draigo and friends in a game where I didn't take any interceptor and had no psykers. I didn't cry and call it op bullshit, I got hard countered.
>>46092967
Take a CAD. They're troops, so they get it.
Also noteworthy, having a landraider crusader as a dedicated transport for them means it also gets obsec
>>46092930
Stormraven is a decent and funny alternative to the LRC, just imagine your mob of crusading space knights leaping furiously from the aircraft onto the enemy below.
>>46085465
>This means that Hive tyrants with Crushing Claws can mulch dreads and put a deep dent in knights and stompas at I5.
>Hive tyrants with Crushing Claws
KekBut seriously, why not let Tyrants and Prime to take them? Why is Crudd such a dick?
>>46092614
Tzeentch units in general aren't that great but don't be afraid to use screamers as AV and DPs/LoCs are just default beatsticks with their stat lines. Using CSM is a good way to not totally swamp someone since pure tzeentch just by virtue of summoning being the primaris can be genuinely difficult to play with any sort of seriousness without overwhelming lesser codices.
>>46092990
NEAT! but im sorry what is CAD?
>>46092994
That sounds like a neat idea, thanks
>>46091384
Must suck not having 6 poorfag.
>>46091230
Never played Fantasy, how did it work?
>>46093040
>CAD
combined arms detachment
>>46093040
Combined arms detachment. Basically the standard 1 HQ, 2 troops, etc. The standard way of making an army gives your troops Objective secured for free.
>>46093018
K I'll do that thank you.
>>46093018
Clarification: Tzeentch units aren't that great in assault. Heralds and Horrors are some of the best units in the game.
>>46093082
>>46093085
Oh right ok thanks. Cheers m8's!
>>46092977
>New stealth team kits are $23.50 with no shipping cost on ebay and come with three.
Its almost like they're a fair price or something compared to other units. I guess its just because they don't sell as well as crisis suits. Thanks for the nice, easy purchase decision.
>>46092100
Riptides are only OP if you are playing a low model-count army. If you are facing hoard infantry or assault armies, the riptide is actually a weaker response than Pirahnas or Crisis suits.
Riptide gets a bad rap as OP because it is good against cannon competitive builds. If you bring a riptide against blob guard, nid or ork, it's not going to have a big impact.
>>46092984
I once tanked 2 vendettas with my commander with iridium armor and fnp, jet packed behind one of them and shot it down. Shit was cash.
>>46093121
Why are horrors great? Their ability to go to ground and daemon of tzeentch rule and the summoning? That was the only noteworthy things about them that popped out to me
>>46093255
Thats some real gundam shit right there.
and yea iridium+fnp is a good alternative to the invuln since it's much easier for most armys to get str8 shooting then 10.
>>46093277
cheap psychic batteries. there are cheaper more efficient psychic batteries, but not in the troops slot.
>>46093167
Riptide is a distraction.
Anyone here ever made custom decals with laser printers?
Because my freehand is absolute shit, and when it's not SW, Orks, or Chaos, it's necessary in my mind to get a standardised font for all the tiny tracts of gibberish Latin I want to put all over my Templars.
>>46093277
99 points for a 2 WC generation and an 11 man Tzeentch save unit that can go to ground, as well as fill in with firepower as a flickering fire conduit or just give you some extra rolls on change/malefic.
It doesn't seem like much, but their ability to pad out your malefic rolls better than any other troop makes them worth their weight in gold. Definitely also buoyed by general daemonic benefits and that the troops they summon are versatile enough to be a threat to damn near anything.
>>46093340
I see. Yeah they seem pretty crazy good to me if you use them right with some failings in certain areas. Someone was going off about how terrible they are which discouraged me from them at first. They were talking about how some of their attacks can give your enemies crazy good feel no pain.
>>46093405
>It doesn't seem like much, but their ability to pad out your malefic rolls better than any other troop makes them worth their weight in gold. Definitely also buoyed by general daemonic benefits and that the troops they summon are versatile enough to be a threat to damn near anything.
Yeah this was the sort of impression I got after testing them out by myself. I sent like 50 terminators at a horde of them and they just went "OH shit son bloodletters, daemonettes and heralds for days" and every single tzeentch herald rolled to turn into a lord of change. It seemed scary as shit which is why I'm gonna tone it down for playing friendly games with my friend.
>>46091384
>models are priced according to their usefulness in the game
Good one, anon.
>>46093344
>You can't be that guy unless your stuff is all grey or primer-only.
His Riptide and Stormsurge were painted extremely well but everything else was primed Red.
>Also, at 2500 points, that list looks reasonable. You can't really cry at 2500 points
I was just giving an example of his big suits, I didn't think he brought an unfair list. He was just complaining a lot for a Far Sight Enclave army. I brought a Demi Company with a bike command squad and chaplin, Storm wing, Conclave and a CAD with some more bikes.
>>46093075
Spells had a cast cost (Fireball, generic witch fire, had a cast cost of 6 (i think))
Now you had 1-6d6 + your Wizards Magic Level to reach casting cost
Where a roll of a 1 or 2 was always a fail.
It was kind of nice. But it had its own issues
Namely the system only let you generate 2d6 max.
For each Wizard you could "channel" 1d6 for each level and on a 6 you got an extra dice. But when I played 7e the game really boiled down to one badass wizard casting where any other Wizard just dicked around.
(In 7e each spell was unique so you could take a Lvl 2 Wizard and a lvl4 to know an entire discipline)
But magic missiles (witchfires) autohit... which was nice.
But the 6's from each discipline was usually op as fuck. Mostly being Save or Die.
And if you got at least 2 6s it was impossible to dispel
>>46093461
I almost never keep possession on my heralds because LoC are natively ml2, and I always upgrade my heralds to ml3.
Horrors, on the other hand...
Its especially hilarious when portal-glyph spawned horrors roll possession
>>46093428
Warpflame is a real pain in the ass sometimes but it's only an obstacle when shooting at MCs or units that already have FNP base. It really just forces you to think a little more strategically about where you place your firepower because you want to focus on erasing units or shooting them down to useless handfuls of models. Thankfully Tzeentch's firepower is generally wilting enough that this is pretty easily accomplished. Not to mention that the new change discipline, as well as all the other ways Daemons get to ignore FNP, means that you can shoot something all the way to a 2+ FNP and then clobber it regardless.
>>46093549
How are daemons ignoring fnp?
>>46093582
Strength D and Instant Death
>>46093617
Hmm thanks I'll keep that in mind.
>>46093545
It was mostly just summoned units which I figured didn't get access to upgrades.
>>46093582
D (via prismatic gaze/D Thirsters/Skullreaver/Devastating blow), raw Insta-death (6s on AoK, Death Incarnate trait, Baleswords, etc.) or via their ease of access to S8+ MCs and shooting powers. Also worth mentioning now would be their access to enfeeble/biomancy and the new Nurgle relic which creates a 6 inch bubble of -1 T.
Hell in the warpflame host now you can take exalted flamers with D3 S10 AP2 guns. Warpflame be damned, you'll probably just splat whatever it is you're shooting.
>>46093732
Only problem with the Exalted Flamer is his 18" Heavy d3 Lascannon on a non Jump Infantry (despite normal Flamers being Jump)
>>46093782
yeah but they're so (relatively) cheap you can run them in horrors squads and make use of them when you have an opportunity
>>46093782
Yeah the exalted flamer has a couple oversights (not jump, can't take gifts), but sticking one into a unit of horrors makes them a much more difficult-to-approach objective holder. Move up, psychic shit out, run to cover, and then you just police the space with your baleflamer equivalent or burst-fire lascannon. Even just the D3 AP3 flamer hits against assaulting units can really discourage people from approaching. Too bad the burning skyhost formation is arguably the worst AND most expensive to take, keeping your exalted flamers on the ground if you really want to stay in decurion.
>>46093824
>50 points for a D3 lascannon and a torrent AP 3 flamer on a 3 wound tzeentch saving model
I wish there was better metrics for point comparison but honestly those two guns are so good it feels like you get the model for free.
Do the new Tactical marines box not have any chain swords for the whole squad? What is the best way to get some?
>>46094162
Only comes with one.
New to necrons and I need some advice. I want to build a list at 1250 points and not sure how I should go about it.
For a Decurion, I am not sure what to do with the Overlord or the immortals. I was thinking five immortals in a nightscythe. The other option is have them with the overlord to use the veil to deepstrike around, but this seems not that great.
Should the overlord be built for melee with lychguard or a Catacomb Command Barge?
I was thinking of having the warriors in ghost arks. A big blob of twenty seems so slow. I have that problem with my guard.
Is a decurion even worth it at 1250? I feel like I could fit more in with a regular CAD. Everyone says the decurion is crazy, but is that extra 1+ really that intense for these levels?
Its hard for me to know what I want without play testing lists. I feel rather lost, help?
>>46094162
Assault marines box will let you build 5 marines with chainswords, bolt pistols, and normal backpacks.
>>46094162
ebay. Tactical sqads with ebay chainswords+bolt pistols is the cheapest way to make non-jump assault marines
>>46094162
ebay bitz stores. Or if your local GW manager isn't a dick just ask if he's got any spare chainswords laying around from store models.
>>46094180
decurion is always worth it.
>>46094162
Why the fuck would it?
>>46092792
>He had to read the Conclave rules and all about independent characters outloud twice until he gave up.
Now that is far fetched. Its obviously someone with littler to no experience on how formations work.
>>46094011
18" Lascannon* and (basically) Baleflamer.
Both are Heavy, so no moving and shoot
And T3 with only a 5++, rerolling (any) 1s
Like he's not bad, I just wish he was a Jump like normal Flamers. To float up the line all spooky like and then leave the Flamers while he shoots his own stuff.
Although he can mesh with Pink Horrors (being 24" and his being 18")
Btw can Pink Horrors roll on Change tree still (and possibly get Strength D bolt?
>>46094185
I was considering that
>>46094195
>>46094203
doing that now but thats for the advice might ask the store near me
>>46094223
I can see why cause they are better at shooting but I was just wondering if they where there and they took them out or where they never there to begin with
Could a 5 man Assault squad with 2 flamers work as a sort of 2-special weapon tactical squad? What if I stuck them in a Rhino so they could ride around burning things?
>>46093255
Dude, my Belial withstood 2 full turns of tanking with a fucking 4++ when facing down the barrels of a loaded Tau army. My luck was with me, and my friend was on the verge of a furious charge (trust me, if you ever wondered what the red thirst looks like IRL, you need only shit like this to happen once in a while!).
After every unit firing he was like "ok... ok, must not loose my cool. Ill just ignore the fucker.... thats what Ill do... Ill igno.... no, NO! That fucker is going down I tell you!!!" Shit was cash as hell.
>>46094302
I use a 5 man assault squad with jump packs and 2 flamers. Their only purpose is to be a skirmishing squad that keeps my nid playing friend busy while the rest of my units are getting into position.
They tend to either do the job well or get ripped to shreds.
>>46094268
Tactical squads have never had an option to take more than one chainsword so the Tau squad box has never had chainsword for everyone.
The previous box did have two (left and right handed) so fond someone that was buying marines 3rd-5th edition and they'll have loads of spares.
>>46094250
its the only table they can roll on (other than daemonology of course)
Do any of your models have stuff on them to indicate their history?
A guy at my store painted up a few eldar in the same scheme as his "rival" at the store and then cut up their body parts to put on his marines bases after he won a long campaign.
>>46094600
I sometimes use spare helmets or other bits to paint up in other players color schemes for trophies.
Never go out of my way to buy a full kit for it though.
>>46094600
My Deredeo Dreadnought has a set of 9 red stripes on one of its cannons, to signify the day it scored 9 tanks kills in one game against an Imperial Guard player.
>>46094600
Oh yea, and while technically not one of my models. The LGS's Orkbro once paid me to paint a set of trophies for his orks... That were in the colour scheme of my own space marines.
>>46094600
I'm one of those guy that customize and write a story to his dudes based on the battles i made.
Never trophies though.
I mostly allow myself to use bitz of the faction of my rival (or ally) after a battle to convert my stuff.
>>46094600
I havent begun yet but I am fluffing my Dark Angel and Necron Army to hate each other and I will have enough bits to make trophies. Mostly this will be for HQ / Elite units that do something cool.
I faced a different Necron army with my DA recently in an Eternal War: Relic Mission and Necrons run so I am going to put a DA sword on the waist or back of my Overlord.
Thought of the moment: Could a 3D printer be used to make minis?
Seems like a small investment of 3000 dollars could save you a lot of money.
>>46095058
Only if you plan on getting 3000 dollars worth on monies. That's a solid 10 armies.
It'd be more productive to learn how to cast stuff
>>46095058
Yet to see a 3d printed mini that didn't look shit. They'll probably get there, but don't seem to be good enough at the moment.
>>46094600
My Warboss has a Tyranid skull mounted on his Shoota.
>>46095058
Why waste your money on a 3D printer? Zanchui sells Imperial Knights for 30$ a model. With that money, you could buy 100 Imperial Knights in nigh-indestructible ABS plastic, that are totally and completely indistinguishable from the real ones...
Which you could then sell for 11000, and make a hefty profit.
>>46094600
I havent begun yet but I am fluffing my Dark Angel and Necron Army to hate each other and I will have enough bits to make trophies. Mostly this will be for HQ / Elite units that do something cool.
I faced a different Necron army with my DA recently in an Eternal War: Relic Mission and Necrons run so I am going to put a DA sword on the waist or back of my Overlord.
>>46095040
>>46095200
I dont understand how that posted twice so far apart....
>>46094600
My friend has a spike glued to the front of his Chimera after it rammed either a predator and killed it or ran over a Tyranid MC in 5th, cant remember which it is now.
It might even have been a GK Grandmaster
>>46094600
My first victory ever was with CSM against a Grey Knight player. To celebrate that, some of my next CSM got a couple GK bits, a pair of legs here, helmet there, as I "looted" the dead.
Bought them from an online bit seller.
>>46093167
>cannon competitive builds
what did he mean by this?
>>46095682
I dont know but that woman needs my dick, I can sense it
>>46091230
Why not just go back to third ed and use a straight leadership test? I don't see the point of the psychic dice, psychic phase, 'fuck dat witch sheeit' rolls, random psychic tables and so on. Was the world really so terrible when powers were bought like wargear? Because I don't remember them being terrible or too good.
>>46094600
I'm building a Carnival of Pain and I've decided my Scarlet Epicurean and his Wracks are going to be themed like big game hunters. His wracks are going to be carrying black glass heads from my various foes and the formation is going to be hexrifled to fuck.
Probably not ideal but satisfying.
>>46094448
Kk cool. I didn't know if Curse of the Wulfen gave Pink Horrors predetermined powers or not.
>>46095682
netlists and stereotypical power builds, though I don't agree with what he's saying, str 8 ap 2 large blasts will wreck horde armys just fine.
>>46095101
It just requires rather "boxy" models. I've seen good Centurions, Dreadnoughts and Crisis/Broadside suits.
But yeah, the level of detail is generally shit.
>Must resist the urge to order shit from GW for $375 and an additional £74 from Forge World...
And knowing only $175 would be used for the actual model being played as a looted imperial knight, the rest would be bits used for this and future conversions... Damn my life! Damnit all to hell!
>>46096273
> What is, Google: Zanchui Email.
hahaha
>>46096315
Even if I got the resin for a better price, its still quite the cost in multi part plastic kits that is needed. And even after this, I would be bound to the desk for countless hours hating myself if I didn't finish this project!
>>46096315
>literally posting Z's name
Apparently he stopped accepting new customers because of faggots like you.
>tfw outbid on 30 gretchin by 50 pence
>>46096409
Muh secret secret club whose friends uncles bosses cousins twice removed aunties asian childs teacher who sucked off a clown you have to know to get his e-mail.
>>46094162
>What is the best way to get some?
Ask your fellow marine players if they have some to give
>>46096436
Club is closed now so whatever
>>46096528
This is exactly why I keep giving out the name. It doesn't matter to me, I already got my orders in, I'm secured for the future.
>>46096273
Do it anon, they almost always looks awesome. Every good waaagh needs a towering mechanical idol to gork n mork.
>>46096660
Until Z a) gets too many orders to continue or b) gets shut down.
Some of his more recent emails had a line similar to "I don't know why people give out my contact info, its bad for them if I have to stop working because of it"
>>46096660
>Why the future of humanity is fucked: The Post
>>46096708
Current backorder seems to be 6 weeks or longer. He'll probably quit soon at this rate.
>>46096769
Unless he mans the fuck up and hires another factory worker to recast for him, and thus expands his operation. Either he figures it out and improves, or he flops.
Thoughts?
>>46092477
It's like the author just plain fucking forgot that Orks are i2 & BS3, so paying 1/2 points for everything would have been perfectly fair, what with how so many dudes will die before swinging or only hit 1/3rd of the time.
>>46096818
>split his earnings with some poor incompetent bumblefuck to please his pushy spoiled bratty Western customers who don't even obey his simple instructions
nah he'll probably quit
>>46096927
cautious optimism
So I'm ready to assemble my new models for my new army! So... should I use this 'plastic glue' or superglue? Is there a difference?
>>46096980
Plastic On Plastic > Plastic Glue
Literally anything else > Superglue
>>46096980
Plastic glue will weld and melt plastic pieces together, so they become nigh inseparable. It doesn't do anything to models that aren't plastic, however, so if you're assembling anything in resin or metal, you need to use superglue.
>>46097005
I thought Plastic Glue was unnecessary 99% of the time.
>>46096980
Use super glue first time, it means if you fuck up positioning you can put the model in the freezer to break the bonds and try again. You can't do that with plastic glue as it makes a permanent bond through melting the plastic slightly.
>>46097055
>war wolf round 2: wulfboogaloo
I'm more interested in the models coming out on the space marine birthday, honestly.
>>46097055
I can't tell if this art is better or worse than the rest of what we got from this. It's not Goodwin, Blanche, or England but it is better than AoS Art.
>>46096660
>Having no consideration for others
Yeah fuck you too...
Don't know why it took me so long to realize this, but on Walkers vs. MCs: besides Walkers suffering from the Vehicle Damage Chart, all MC get Smash, so ALL their attacks are AP2 naturally, with no risk of losing said ability. Fucking meanwhile, Dreads have to pay for melee weapons & risk having them blown the fuck off.
Goddamn, poor Orks.
Corollary: fucking Power Klawz on a Deff Dread are 15 points, but on a fucking Warboss or Nob, still 25? On a less survivable platform? FUCK YOU, 7TH ED ORK CODEX WRITER(S).
>>46097055
That art is pretty good, but they're looking more like traditional orcs than werewolves now.
>>46097187
>Waah waah waah those nasty MCs with their S6 might hurt my AV12 walkers with AP2 on all the penetrating hits they're going to get
>>46097052
It is, ignore this >>46097005 faggot.
Do you lads think a Star Collecting CSM box will happen any time soon?
>>46097163
How long until GW starts using MS paint art in their books?
>>46097248
Quick name an MC with 3 wounds!
>>46096927
Skeptical, but hopeful
>>46097280
Wraithlord
>>46097271
Depends. They'll get one as soon as a new book (whether a new codex or a warzone)
>>46097280
Dark Eldar Talons and those Mechanicus robots
>>46097280
Wraithlord. Talos. Chronos.
>>46097318
>T8
>3+ sv
>>46097055
This is so, so heretical.
Somebody please call the MinotaursI actually like Wulfen, and don't mind the Space Wolves as a veteran legion getting a pass for some abberants, like many Chapters do, I just hope GW stick to their guns with them being VERY contentious, and that Fenris 2: Wulfen Boogaloo doesn't end with some "well it takes all sorts" acceptance of Wulfen from the rest of the Imperium. But that's just me
>>46097331
Mmm, didn't think of that.
How likely do you think new CSM models are?
>>46097346
So your Dread Power Fists wound it on 2+ and ignore its armor?
>>46097187
They should change it so both MCs and walkers have AP 4 standard. Still let's them hit infantry as well as you would expect for something of their size, but makes it so they need a close combat weapon to get AP 2
>>46097400
No but, he has to pay POINTS for those!I do like that in his original rant it didn't cross his mind that maybe AP2 is taken into account when GW works out the points cost of MCs.
>>46097400
No, it lost its weapons.
But don't worry, I've got an in built instant death so you'll kill me no problem. Even the worst MC's are better than the best Walkers.
>>46097463
>Worst MCs
I thought we were talking about the Wraithlord, not the Maleceptor?
>>46097388
They need an update like Tau got (two updates, two new)
Generic Chaos Space Marine box and maybe a Mutilator / Obliterator dual kit
Then something unnecessary like another dinobot and a daemonnosaurus rexbot LOW because the Dark Mechanicus have a hardon for dinobots
>>46097501
Even the Maleceptor comes with an Invuln and AP 2 standard. Meanwhile Deff Dreads and Gorkanauts....
>>46097509
I'd like to see some generic Marines get a new model.
Their model looks a bit.... odd, and I almost feel like if I wanted to play CSM I'd be better off stripping my (poorly done) paint job off my regular Marines and using green stuff to make my own CSM.
>>46097556
You mean like the good old days?
>>46097535
A Maleceptor is also twice the cost of a Dreadnought
>>46097556
Ya, I'd use either 30k or tactical marines with spare bits if I was making a CSM army
The CSM models were so out of place in the assassinorum execution force box when compared to the Assassins and hell even the cultists
>>46097463
>Even the worst MC's are better than the best Walkers.
Yeah right, those Dreads that tear my Tyranids to shreds are so bad that those far superior MC just keep dying because they take pity on your walkers...
>>46097702
did a pair of Ironclads ruin your day?
>>46097577
Sorry anon, I'm only 20 and got into the hobby this year, I don't know what the old days were like.
>>46097727
It's almost like different models are good at different things.
Seriously, fuck all these requests to normalise walkers and MCs, the game's more interesting when there's variety in what shit can do.
>>46097727
All you need is one... Those MC that are "better than Walkers" tend to crumble against AV13
>>46097768
I agree, thats why we need to turn all those Tau MC's back into walkers, no real downside, its for "variety".
>>46097346
>objectively worse than dread with stormshield
>equivalent to AV12 with a save
>except most weapons shooting it ignore said save
>>46098141
Its alright guys! This single walker is better than even the shittest MC. What's that? Other armies don't have those options, well that is not my fault MC's are balanced.
>>46098156
>the shittest MC
It's in the Eldar codex. Try again
>>46097273
Soon. Why? Because we don't understand market appeal and IP.
>>46098156
fine.. we'll remove the direct comparison
>equivalent to AV12 with a save
>except most weapons shooting it ignore said save
Guarantee you the world stays exactly the same if all AV12 walkers get a 3+ save
