Pathfinder General /pfg/
Spirits for the Season Edition
If you are asking for build advice, please mention which third-party books are allowed. If you do not say anything, we will ask (probably about DSP).
Unified /pfg/ link repository: http://pastebin.com/sYFe4hcd
Previous Thread: >>44274363
>>44282268
Gestalting a spellcaster with another spellcaster's usually a really bad idea; for all your spells and magical potential, you still only have one round of actions, and your chassis isn't made any better.
Don't play an active class alongside an active class, however tempting it is. They'll be competing for your actions and your feats, when in Gestalt it's almost always better for one side to be a "feeder" into the actual active class.
>>44282332
What are some good "feeder" classes then.
Aside from Aegis, I think everyone knows Aegis is the best passive class.
What are some classes/archetypes that don't really gel well in gestalt anyway?
Reminder about the new playtest of DSP archetypes of the occult adventure classes:
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?472513-Dreamscarred-Press-Psionics-Augmented-Occult
>>44282398
Honestly, it really depends on what you're trying to do. What you really want to do, generally, is a Passive class, and an Active class.
I'm somewhat struggling on what to make for a gestalt game myself. We've only got two players, one of which is a utility caster Sorc/Oracle, so we need someone to do main combat.
I'm somewhat tempted to maybe fuck around with that whole Aegis thing with emulating tech guns.
>>44282398
Personally, Alchemist/Wizard Gestalt makes the most sense to me. You wind up with all good saves, and with the infusion discovery you can just pass out extracts before the battle begins so you don't have to use up your own turns. If you can take archetypes, you could even go for a promethean preservationist alch + wizard, and let your homunculus do all your extract work to free you up for more wizarding.
Where the hell is the Emulate Discipline Weapon blade shape?
>>44282579
with the war soul, in Path of War 1
>>44282579
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/psionics-unleashed/classes/soulknife/archetypes/dreamscarred-press/war-soul-soulknife-archetype
>>44282594
How the fuck
I literally was on the archetypes page and I missed that
Man. I think I need to go to sleep. Goodnight, people.
>>44282501
Yeah. i remember trying to make a Kineticist Psion gestalt and being absolutely stumped on what to make.
>>44282615
Kineticist/Monk, man.
>>44282398
paladin if you charisma, warrior for infinite feats.
>>44282332
>>44282332
>>44282307
i understand that wizard is strong, but since it's an high powered gestalt game i expect shit to get hard.
if i go for ranger it's because it also give me the ability to use bow and it doesn't sound bad at all even if his spells and animal companion will be 100% wasted. Lack of reflex scale on warrior would be the only thing keeping it from being better.
but it still lacks swift action usages and there is zero synergy beyond saves... so am i wondering if there is anything better.
>>44282659
Your primary class is a wizard right? You could solo class as a wizard in a Gestalt game and still hold your own. You don't need to shoot stuff with a bow or get mixed up in melee at all, you just need to sling the right spells and stay back enough not to get hit.
>>44282633
I dislike monks,I don't like playing Lawfags(I know, I know), and my wisdom wasn't that high. Only high enough to get the psi meditation feats, which was like 13.
Even if I did go monk, I would have to be a filthy dex fag too.
>>44282659
Have about Cavelier? They already get some skill bonuses stuff which should synergize well with being Int based. And your free mount will boost your action economy and mobility, plus it will essentially allow you to do Druid shenanigans.
>>44282659
Yeah, without 3pp, wizard doesn't really get much synergy. Monk(unchained or with the right archetype) is pretty good for arcane casters since you probably don't want to wear armor and the extra mobility comes handy.
>>44282659
Anon, anon, look at the suggestion in >>44282549
Even if you don't archetype, alchemist+wizard will let you do all kinds of fun things.
Has the pastebin been updated with the Geotic and Pit Witch?
Would anyone happen to have scans of the Animal Companion stat blocks from the back of Bestiary 5 or could type out the Digmaul's Animal Companion stat block and level 4 advancement? My google-fu is not working this morning.
>>44282720
No. We should probably just link the occult playtest thread instead of the goetic though.
>>44282719
>>44282549
t-this sounds cool. how broken would that be? how does my homunculus use extracts?
>>44282714
misses reflex save, doesn't have free feats like the ranger to make its bab useful to a feat starved character like i am going to be.
still better than a fighter and similar to ranger considering the useful mount, but my DM just told me that the entire campaign will be inside one enormous city, so fuck animal companions and fuck mounts in particular.
Question for you /pfg/.
If a wizard has a negative intelligence modifier (like a 7 int, -2 modifier) they can't cast spells. Do they still have a Caster Level in relation to qualifying for Item Creation feats?
>>44282957
i'd say yes.
note that crafting a magic item requires the spell to be cast, even if someone other than him can do it.
>>44282991
Only spell completion and spell trigger items.
>>44282991
To expand on this, it "requires" the spell to be cast, not REQUIRES. You don't need to know the spell to craft wondrous items or magical weapons/armor, but you do need it for spell completion/trigger items.
For every spell you don't have access to in the item's description, increase the DC by 5.
>>44282991
Well we're playing a low magic campaign. Since there is no spell-less Druid Archetype that I can find, just going to dump it's wisdom to 7. However since everyone is pretty much all martials except for our Spell-less paladin healbot, our GM has let us ignore the spellcasting requirements of crafting magic items and just increase the DC by 5 for each missing spell requirement. Just wasn't sure about the caster level issue since I wouldn't be able to actually cast spells.
>>44283052
Play a different game. Actually, smack your DM and THEN go play a different game.
>>44283113
We actually wanted to play a low/no magic campaign. Blowing shit up in one round gets boring after a while. Just having coming out of Giantslayer this is both refreshing and fun.
>>44282838
Your homunculus can prepare and use your extracts for you, and acts as basically a humanoid animal companion. It doesn't really get a whole lot on its own, but it can act as another pair of eyes and hands. It's a bit poorly supported and has no discoveries to buff it directly, or any alternate base stats, but since a homunculus is a construct it's basically immune to a majority of shit that isn't straight up damage.
Is it the most broken thing you could do? Probably not. Does it allow you the ability to cover all your possible bases, while having an artificial daughteru hiding behind you and tossing out pokeballs and shit to help your party while you get to be all wizardly? Fuck yea it does.
You can even have your homunculus be a somewhat decent natural attacker, and you'll probably have extract buffs to spare. Shit could get expensive, though, since you'll need to be buying gear for yourself AND your homunculus.
>>44283052
>Pathfinder
>"low magic"
Ditch the GM.
>>44283144
So play a low magic campaign in a system that actually make sense with low magic. This game is not that system. There are much better options out there.
>>44283165
So what you're saying is, unless we're all playing Wizards/-insert 3PP class here-, we're doing it wrong? Gotcha. You have a grave misunderstanding of the general concepts of the game, and genre in general, if you think spell casting are a necessity. But thank you for your input nonetheless. I'll make sure to avoid groups like yours in the future.
>>44283207
>nless we're all playing Wizards/-insert 3PP class here-, we're doing it wrong?
Yes and no. You could be having more fun if you played a system designed and built around low magic.
>You have a grave misunderstanding of the general concepts of the game, and genre in general, if you think spell casting are a necessity
No you have a grave misunderstanding of the game, and probably delusional if you think pathfinder can handle low power games remotely well. Sure you can have fun trying to that, I can have fun playing Drakengard, doesn't mean its good.
>>44283052
oh god that sounds so awful to play in. couldn't your DM just quickly homebrew a new class?
it's better to play classes without high magical abilities? or quickly homebrew new classes.
for example you can take one class that has 6/9 spell casting and 3/4 bab ( such as hunter in place of druid, investigator or bard in place of wizard), make spell casting a 4/9 progression ( such as ranger's progression for spells) then add back the original's class abilities such as shapeshifting or passive spell school abilities. you can have your DM rule that they will be able to forge items using their character level as caster level, they will still have an hard time reaching the roll to craft it safely.
i feel like it's a better way to play low magic instead of forcing your wizard to spend 16000 gold to be able to cast 7 crappy spells a day.
>>44283207
No, I'm saying unless you're playing the game on the level the game expects you to, you're going to have a difficult time and need to spend a lot of effort rebalancing things to make sure that the base assumptions of the game (players WILL have flight at level X, Players WILL have magic swords of +X at level Y, Players WILL have access to healing of XdY by level Z) aren't screwing you all that you'd be better off using a system that's already done all of that work for you. Why waste unnecessary effort and risk unnecessary frustration and confusion?
>>44283148
>implying my DM wouldn't just kill him everytime.
if i will do it i'll just use his hands. thanks for the suggestion... where does it say that it can prepare extracts anyway?
>>44283207
Pathfinder is complete and utter shit for anything other than high-fantasy.
>>44282838
>>44283271
To continue from >>44283148 since I didn't actually answer your initial question, remember that extracts are basically fancy potions that only the alchemist can use unless he takes the infusion discovery. A homunculus can, by default, also use the alchemist's extracts on themself, and are considered either humanoid or construct for sake of determining beneficial effects.
>where does it say it can prepare extracts
See: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/alchemist/archetypes/paizo---alchemist-archetypes/promethean-alchemist-alchemist-archetype
>Sympathetic Alchemy (Su): The bond between a promethean alchemist and his homunculus is so close that the alchemist's extracts function for the homunculus as if it were the alchemist...
>Additionally, the homunculus can prepare its master's extracts from his formula book for him each day, as long as it's within the range of its telepathic link.
>mfw a DM heartless enough to try to focus on killing your homunculus
Your DM sounds like an asshole, but you can salve that as long as you can recover your homunculus' body, 100 gold/HD, and have some way to get 1 pint of your blood/HD. I recommend just trying to keep them alive as a pack mule and wand-monkey if you don't intend to bling it out for natural weapons.
>>44283207
>Hey guys give me advice
>No stop telling me how bad an idea what I'm doing it, it's not like I wanted any of your advice anyway!
Jesus christ.
You're pretty much trying to fit a square peg into a round hole.
I mean, it's possible, but it's not a good fit by any stretch.
In fact, it's a fucking awful fit, and if you play it out every combat will feel like the square peg was a 9 inch block of wood and the round hole was your ass.
>>44283207
>So what you're saying is, unless we're all playing Wizards/-insert 3PP class here-, we're doing it wrong? Gotcha.
No, what we're saying is that Pathfinder is built for playing pathfinder, what you are playing is not pathfinder. Pathfinder can't handle low powered, low magic games without heavy tuning.
>You have a grave misunderstanding of the general concepts of the game, and genre in general, if you think spell casting are a necessity. But thank you for your input nonetheless. I'll make sure to avoid groups like yours in the future.
The only one with the grave misunderstanding is you, given your ridiculous strawman and knee-jerk hostility. You can have fun playing as a fighter in pathfinder, this does not make it a well-designed class. Similarly, you can have fun with that type of campaign, but pathfinder is absolutely NOT built for that and I promise you those speed bumps will turn into speed mountains.
>>44283269
>>44283207
the game is already difficult to balance without having to care about removing things that you need magic to deal with.
a good DM can make a campaign for 4 non magical characters up to level 15, offering them the right items and removing challenges they can't deal with.
but that's not was it's happening... he is actually letting someone play "wizard" with 7 int and no bonuses. FOR WHAT PURPOSE?
it's an abomination balance-wise, fun-wise, and roleplaying-wise.
what's the point of having a poor fucker play a character which will end up doing 1/3 of a ranger's damage and has less hp?
because that's what will happen after 5 levels if he using a bow, even taking dexterity and feats for it, and comparing himself to the average unoptimized ranger.
>>44283052
Have you considered asking your DM to let you trade the spellcasting away for something, like a homebrewed archetype? Maybe you could get full BAB and another good save or more skill ranks, or some new class features.
>>44283207
No, we're asking you why you'd EVER want to play a Wizard/Druid/Sorcerer in this situation when it sounds not only dumb, but also completely pointless. The entire POINT of those classes is their spellcasting (well okay, and an animal companion/Wildshape in the case of a Druid). Why not just play an Unchained Monk, Barbarian, Lore Warden Fighter, Spell-less Ranger (since the Skirmisher isn't actually too bad at all) or a Bloodrager? They actually have class abilities other than "those things you can't do because you're too stupid/impulsive/ugly to cast them like a normal person".
Is anyone somewhat miffed by fluff inconsistencies? In the lost cities splat, it says that the PCs can make a decent amount of money by selling all the gold door knobs and such in Xin Shalast. However in Rise of the Runelords AE it says that the Thassilonians were not decadent, and would have all of their wealth hidden in underground vaults.
Similar issue with Deathweavers, where in RotRL they are described as being made up of undead spiders, while the Bestiary says that the spiders are in fact alive.
>>44283683
>Thassilonians were not decadent
I mean I wouldn't be surprised if the Greed Capital is an exception to that rule
>>44283683
>miffed by fluff inconsistencies
Yes. The only people who wouldn't be are the people that have already totally given up on Golarion.
>>44283763
Jokes on you, I never cared about Golarion in the first place.
>>44283779
Joke's on YOU!Golarion never cared about you, either.
>>44283822
damn man, you don't have to be so harsh about it
>>44283885
Golarion is a harsh, unloving world with an angry god in its core. It doesn't have time for sass and a lot of shit-head mages that think they can just do whatever they please.
I think I already know the answer to this question, but is there anyway to have an INT-based druid without 3PP material? I want to play a nature-mage who draws his magic power from scientific understanding of geologic and environmental processes, rather than hippy nature philosophy.
>>44284025
Beastmorph alchemist is probably as good as your going to get. Druids are all about loving nature.
I would fucking love a plant based/animal based class based around using nature for your own ends as opposed to tree hugging.
>>44284350
>>44284025
COME ON PAIZO, WHERE WAS OUR WIZARD-DRUID HYBRID CLASS?
>>44284368
Isn't that basically what a summoner is?
>>44284368
Brown Fur transmuter?
>>44284396
Summoner is stupid extra planar bullshit.
>>44284436
But it's basically a wizard with a custom animal companion that can buff the companion or summon other monsters. It's got a lot of overlap with both wizards and druids.
>>44284459
None of it is thematically nature focused and dealing with planar shit makes refluffing next to impossible.
Though iirc there is a nature based summoner archetype. Not to mention people sperg about the summoner on principle.
Do you guys want me to add Pit Witch to the pastebin?
I don't know what Beotic guy wants done with his, but I'll assume he has the link.
>>44284459
Summoner is also cha based not int based
>>44284459
>>44284482
Honestly, I'd give up the summoning stuff for a Wiz-Druid hybrid class. It can't have all the stuff both classes get, obviously, and the summoning is an easy thing to cut away since summons can be a headache anyway. Wildshape is the main cool thing that I think people would want.
Then it'd probably also use the wiz/sorc spell list but instead of having an arcane school have a druidic focus that removes certain wizard spells in exchange for gaining certain druid spells.
>>44284491
The goetic is part of the Psionics Augmented: Occult playtest; better to link to the whole playtest.
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?472513-Dreamscarred-Press-Psionics-Augmented-Occult
Of course, as author/team-member, I'm biased and therefore not weighing on whether or not the playtest link *should be* added. That's up to /pfg/; I'm new here.
>>44284531
If you give them the wizard spell list they're just going to ruin everything. And only cutting out certain spells would be a pretty obnoxious chore.
>>44284542
Aaaand I fucked up my trip. Twas me.
>>44284597
Wrong.
http://pastebin.com/uf2NUMqZ
I updated the paste with the pit witch.
>>44284619
...you seriously had me convinced I'd fucked it up again.
why the fuck does an ordained defender warpriest get their choice of either inquisitions or domains? they're not balanced against each other. inquisitions are specifically balanced against domains. it's fucked up.
how do I do the thing king crimson does
>>44284888
Shattered Mirror, Veiled Moon and Riven Hourglass
>>44284888
Well, king crimson doesn't exist. So you need to stop existing.
>>44284750
>they're not balanced against each other.
>inquisitions are specifically balanced against domains.
????????????
>>44284888
Nice trips! >>44284970 works if you have 3pp access. Otherwise, you'll probably need to be a Wizard.
>>44284750
What is an ordained defender warpriest even from? It sounds interesting to me.
>>44284542
DragoonWraith-senpai, can you take a look at >>44266763 ?
What bonuses do +1 armor give me? Sorry if it's an obvious answer, I'm new to the game.
>>44285341
> Such a well-made item functions like the normal version, except that its armor check penalty is lessened by 1.
>>44285383
So I don't get higher armor class?
>>44285341
You add the enhancement bonus to your armor bonus to AC, and the armor check penalty is reduced by for having masterwork/magic armor.
>>44285440
*reduced by one
>>44285440
Thank you!
>>44285330
I did take a look at it, actually, and passed it on to those who are actually involved in that. Since I'm not, though, I can't really give a response (and if I had a response, I'd do it anon cuz my DSP affiliation isn't really giving me special insight on that one, cuz again, didn't work on that).
Is the pit witch any hood?
>>44285760
No, it's any characters. Hoods don't really qualify, except maybe if they're intelligent magical items.
Are intelligent skeletons a thing and are they always evil?
>>44285822
Yes, skeleton champions and skeleton mages and so on exist. RAW yes, being made undead makes skeletons evil, but as free-willed creatures they can presumably change. Or preferably not stick to that bit of fluff.
>>44285822
Nonevil undead of most kinds do exist, but are very rare. I can't think of an AP that's included one actually.
>>44285990
Ghosts are undead. They count.
>>44286111
Well, they're generally the exception, but yes. Forgot about them. Plenty of nonevil ghosts.
>>44285822
>>44285863
They're a thing in this setting and they are always evil by default fluff, but we (and even other boards like Paizo's forums) have had plenty of arguments about whether or not undead should be always evil.
Anyway, I tend to handle it by saying that they are always evil, but don't necessarily behave in an evil manner. They can be as good in action as anyone else, although they do tend to be evil much more often than not. Regardless of their actions however, the universe will consider them evil. People don't necessarily have to agree with the universe.
>>44285990
I don't know the specific ones either, but I know they're out there. I think it's more common in the earlier APs, but typically the nonevil undead you see are ghosts. They possess the alignment they had in life since the thing holding them in undeath is usually regrets about something they failed to accomplish in life.
>>44286184
I've always thought about it the other way around, they tend toward evil acts since negative energy is inherently destructive, and only a few can overcome that tendency.
So what's the best item mastery feat?
>>44286210
Well, negative energy ISN'T inherently destructive, it's just that it's anathematic to anything powered by POSITIVE energy. Which is most things.
>>44282308
So, our DM just discovered variant multiclassing and proposed us to do a short campaign (2-3 sessions most likely) to try it out.
Since it's a short campaign I wanted to try a class I've never tried before, the magus. What multiclass is good with it? We're probably gonna be around 7-11 level for the campaign.
>>44286673
Magus? It synergies well with things like Alchemist & Sorcerer for VMC.
>>44286673
Good concept, because Paizo went overboard with the multiclass hate.
Shitty execution, because just about none of them are actually /worth/ the feats you burn.
For a variant campaign where everyone uses it... eh? You get to multiclass. IIRC the wizard one is somewhat less shit?
>>44286746
>not doing VMC gunslinger
ha, man you sure are missing out!
>>44286673
Take Eldritch Archer Magus and the Gunslinger VMC. Might be fun.
>>44286437
Teleportation Mastery, followed by Flight and Dispel.
Is it common knowledge upon other magic users that Oracles have curses?
>>44286758
Don't remember what that one did.
>>44286791
Eldritch Archer, on the other hand, is legit. One of the best things Paizo's published.
>>44286791
Nice. If the dm okays firearms this is gonna be my choice for sure. Perhaps I can talk him into a more 16-17th century setting since it's gonna be a short campaign.
>>44286819
It's a joke because gunslinger VMC can 99% be done with feats, defeating the whole point of VMC
>>44286815
That is actually a good question. However it also begs the question of what qualifies someone as an Oracle in a non-metagame sense. What would most Oracles consider themselves as? Do most of them even make a connection with thier curse and thier powers? Perhaps they would instead consider themselves to be more akin to Clerics without realizing thier Magic isn't being directly supplied by a God?
Discuss
>>44286819
>>44286926
And firearms suck incredibly to begin with.
>>44287062
Depends on the firearms rules you're using. If you're using Guns Everywhere, and have access to Advanced ones, they're fine.
>>44285760
I guess so.
What do you guys think of it?
>>44287062
How do they suck? They attack Touch AC, and that's really good.
>>44287129
Unless you're using advanced firearms, they are pretty damn terrible.
>>44286746
>just about none of them are actually /worth/ the feats you burn
I once used a bard (cavalier) to qualify for battle herald, was a kickass character.
>>44287153
You still haven't given me a reason, which I noticed is how most of /pfg/ is. They just meme and say "BUT IT'S BAD BECAUSE I WAS TOLD IT IS!" I want an actual reason for once.
>>44287129
All of your WBL is going into ammo, less than 1/10 of the feat support longbows get, reloading ruins your action economy, they tend to have a 1st range increment (i.e. "you don't take ridiculous penalties in this are") of 20 feet (as opposed to 80 feet for a longbow), and everything that bows are already bad at still applies to guns.
>>44285045
I fucked it up. The choice is inquisitions or warpriest blessings.
>>44285123
And I also fucked it up here. Ordained defender is a Path of War: Expanded archetype for the warder.
>>44287191
Thank you.
>>44287072
>>44287153
>advanced firearms
These posts made me look at them, and what the fuck is the point of the shotgun? Don't the fuckers at Paizo realize that a musket (any smoothbore weapon really) can easily use scattering ammunitions with no problems whatsoever, and indeed it was a common-ish tactic in certain periods.
Calculating range increments....
Pistol, 20 feet, for a max range of 200
Longbow, 80 feet, max range is 800
What the fuck Paizo?
>>44287279
Longbows are meme weapons
>>44287279
pistols are the ones where you load rocks in the muzzle
>>44287306
Thankfully the Russian Revolver looks a lot better. 80 foot base range. Then again, they seem to be meant to be high-level loot....
>>44287279
They're both ridiculous really. If we're talking of smoothbore muzzle-loading weapons, 20-50m should be the maximum pistol range, and good fucking luck actually aiming any kind of bow past 70-80m without modern aiming help, never fucking mind with a volley weapon like the longbow.
>>44287258
Well, that would be more of an issue with Primitive Firearms, wouldn't it?
Since muskets get replaced with Rifles, which implies they have Rifling, thus making them unsuitable for scattering ammunition, requiring a Shotgun as a separate weapon.
>>44287184
>they just meme
Meme has become a verb, an adjective, and a noun.
>>44287384
this is what range penalties are supposed to represent, y'dig? every range increment is worth enough to counteract the BAB that normally accompanies 11+2Con HP, +1 to good saves, +2/3 bad saves, and an increase to the skill rank cap of 2. this is not an insignificant amount of training and experience.
If I have a dead animal companion and I get a new one, does it get all the level advancement stuff from me being level 7? Or do I have to play a level with base stats before it goes up?
>>44287403
But you can't have a rifled shotgun, because a rifled shotgun is literally a fucking rifle. And you can't have scatter ammo with a rifled barrel, simply because by virtue of the individual bullets not being gripped by the rifling, you're not gonna get any kind of accuracy bonus, and if anything losing out on firepower.
Advanced shotguns to make sense need to at least be faster reaload or have a magazine (perhaps tubular, with lever or pump action?) and an intermediate range between musket and rifle to show the tech level difference.
>>44287477
The point however is that we're talking intrinsic limits of the tool, not proficiency. The ranges I've given are literally the limit past which you've reacher crit success realm, not to mention that past those ranges you're gonna have spent projectiles that should receive sizeable damage maluses.
>>44287510
I wasn't saying that there would be a rifled shotgun, I'm saying that if you were using advanced firearms, you would need a shotgun as well as a rifle, since the rifle couldn't do scatter shot due to being rifled.
But yes, Shotguns having one capacity is kinda moronic.
Although if you have rapid reload, they reload as a free action anyway, so...
>>44287592
But you CAN use scatter ammo with rifles, it's just inefficient (and tends to foul the barrel after a while). But when the shotgun is so shit mechanically, it might well be worth it. That shotgun stablock just needs to be totally redone, as it is now, there's literally no reason not to use the musket unless your dm is such a fucking cunt that won't allow you to use legit historical ammo just because the book doesn't say so.
>>44287023
>>44287023
I would guess so, but then again I think lots of them would worship more than one diety at some point and realize after their powers were still active.
>>44287129
Damage while that may be, the reloading problems, missfire mechanic, and previously mentioned range problems makes firearms a but much of a hassle to handle. While this is not bad in and of itself, the fact that they are both expensive AND hidden away behind Exotic proficiencies is a tad crazy since they are no where near strong enough to require such a resource tax. Feat for feat, and player option for option, Bows are considered to be a much more useful and optimized option in most instances, and as such its not really worth the feats to have firearms do what bows already do but better.
Really, if it wasn't for Overwatch Style, I would not recommend guns to anyone, as they're essentially only marginally less useful than crossbows.
Plus Gunslingers leave a bad taste in people's mouth as Grit is just another Ki pool and action economy restriction on swifts combined with the resource scarcity greatly hamper what could've been a fun martial with great utility
>>44283052
Better off just playing this if you're looking to be totally useless in and out of combat, much less work to get it there.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/npc-classes/commoner
>>44283052
Just friggin play Barbarians of Lemuria instead if you want a low magic. Or if you are obsessed with sticking to Paizo, then a Skirmisher Ranger might be more your speed
So, I wanted to make a lycanthrope character, was wondering how to best simulate it without having the gm murder me for complicating character creation mechanics.
I was thinking lunar oracle, feral curse would be the most appropriate, but I'd like suggestions for alternatives because I'm totally unfamiliar with divine material.
>>44283207
>>44287993
Well, there's a shapeshifter archetype for Ranger, as well as the good ol' Beastmorph Alchemist, and his mutagen martial cousins. Also the Skinwalker race is essentially built for the concept, and Skinwalker wizards can get an Arcane discovery to give themselves Werewolf forms with thier polymorph spells.
>>44287993
>>44288056
Skinwalker barbarian maybe?
>>44284025
Magaambyan Arcanist
>>44288114
It has support for it, plus you can even get some unique Barbarian abilities pending on your Skinwalker sub-breed.
Rageborn Skinwalkers get unique rage powers, while Witchwolf have the perfect stats for being barbs
>>44288056
>>44288114
I'm not liking the ranger and alchemist, but I might try to sneak the shapeshifter past the gm (as a cursed human instead of an actual race). 10RP means it's on par with core races right? I'm never gonna get an above average race past that fag. It would also give me freedom of class, which is nice.
Is there any way to get Remove Blindness/Deafness in Reign of Winter without being a caster?
>>44288283
just get a different DM dude
he isn't worth it
>>44288283
RP is fucking meaningless, but yeah, sure, maybe your DM will buy that.
Stat me, /pfg/
>>44288372
Dude no, we're childhood friends and he introduced me to the hobby, I can't just drop him.
He's also actually a good gm, willing to be perma-gm and only really an autist when it comes to balance issues and special snowflake characters.
God, I hate these mass combat rules and the permanent penalties to your kingdom stats that you can do nothing about.
>>44288527
Level 1 human rogue.
How to deal with low wealth game? We're level 4 and half of us doesn't even have masterwork weapon/armor. My character is fine since I'm doing a Summon Monster build but I feels bad for the party.
>>44288599
>How to deal with low wealth game?
Accept that you're gonna be underpowered and utterly mundane, tune the campaign in that direction by presenting mostly mundane challenges (criminal conflicts, low level warfare, etc.)
If you mean balance-wise, ask casters to buy components for spells.
>Play in friend's campaign running Rise of the Runelords
>Run a campaign that he's playing in too
>He keeps bragging about how he managed to improvise a character once and he's really proud of it
>I'm secretly improvising basically the whole campaign with minimal prep and pretending it's a google doc I found on /tg/
>Friend's talking mad shit
>Can't reveal power level
>>44288702
>>Can't reveal power level
Why not? You scurred or something?
>>44288660
He's a player, not the GM, you stupid cucкold. Read what you reply to.
>>44288742
The point of the campaign is to test how far I can fly by the seat of my pants.
If the players know I'm making 90% of it it up on the spot it'll suddenly get played differently.
>>44288702
Do not reveal yourself until the end.
>>44288599
Tell your GM that WBL kind of exists for a reason, and that if he wants to run edgy dirt farmer campaigns he can do it in a system that actually supports it.
Preferably not in those exact words.
>>44288702
Improvise a character? What do you mean?
>>44288742
The point of an improv campaign, to me, is to see how far into it you can go before someone realizes what kind of cheeky shit you've been doing, hopefully you pull it off long enough to really surprise them.
It's kind of like when your grandpa told you a bedtime story and you asked where he heard it and he smiled and said "I made it up just now, sonny" and you're like WHOAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
>>44288811
As in, the PCs went off the APs rails and he had to actually come up with an NPC that's not detailed in the book.
>>44288833
>see how far into it you can go before someone realizes what kind of cheeky shit you've been doing
I'll be honest, if I played in a campaign for more than 5 sessions and didn't realize it was being made up on the spot I'd be fucking blown away.
>>44288848
Oh, okay. I thought you meant he played in a campaign and was just bullshitting his entire character sheet the whole time.
>>44288889
Is this not normal? Both my normal DM and myself tend towards heavy improvisation with very little planning beyond setting down some basic info. No plans I've written have survived contact with the PCs, so I thought that was just the best way of handling it.
>tired of group, everyone is blah and murderhobo, dm is unimaginative and kind of a jerk
>find a new one on /tg/
>People actually RP
>NPCs have personalities
>Things are described
>Roll for stuff instead of DM telling you yes/no
>Things happening instead of the DM just sitting there watching you
>the PCs are actually interesting and they interact with each other
it's a whole new world, /pfg/
>>44289245
That's good to hear anon! What kind of campaign is it?
>>44289261
Inner Sea. It's kind of weird because my first/only campaign before this one was just... thought up on the fly. No campaign, no setting other than "this is an island", no planning at all it seemed like. This GM plans everything out according to the characters and it's working really well so far; everyone got their time in the spotlight.
>Made up custom monster for dungeon
>One of my PCs was secretly THAT GUY
>Rolled a 17 to identify it, it wasn't enough to get any specific details
>Gets really buttmad saying <similar monster>'s DC for identification is only 16
>Tell him it's not that at all
>Gets even more mad
>Believes I'm trying to dick him over somehow
>Explain to him that it's NOT that creature at all
>Slowly loses his shit
>Eventually I have to ask him to either cool it or fucking leave
>He chooses to call everyone "cocksucking nerds" and leave
>Session dies out due to awkwardness
What was your last encounter with the mythical that guy, /pfg/?
>>44289245
Don't you dare close your eyes
>>44289413
Actually, what would Alladin be is PF?
I'm guessing Unchained Rogue if its movie/cartoon version, and Stalker for KH version
>>44289586
When Jafar wished himself sorcerer powers, how many levels would you say he gained?
>>44289673
Becomes level 17 I'd say
>>44289673
Before, he had Charm Person. After, he had Shape Change. That was about 17 sorcerer levels gained.
>>44289673
At least 9 since he learned how to cast Beast Shape III. His previous levels were in Occultist, though whether he Multiclassed or retrained them is beyond me.
>>44289706
>>44289712
>>44289747
No wonder he jobbed so hard when he became a genie, Noble Efreet are only CR 10. He practically wasted those levels!
I guess Jafar should have never dumped his Wis score at chargen
>>44289839
Most Disney villains would have low as fuck Wis.
>tfw I'm the only human in a party of 7
>It's set in Golarion
Help.
>>44289923
What are the other races? Pending in what they are you'll be fine.
Also why worry? You mechanically one of the best races in the game.
>>44289923
Why is that a problem? Human can have intimate relationship with any race. Just seduce all of them.
>>44288533
Please go into your issues with them, I'm going to be using them soon and want to know what to change
>>44289905
Dr. Facilier had at least average Wis, his main problem was that Lawrence jobbed keeping the Prince and Tiana succeeded her Will Save
Also Roark had pretty good Wis too, and only lost because of Deus Ex Machina.
Maleficent lost because magic bullshit fairy sword
Ratigan almost won, and had great mental stats, the problem is that he wasonly slightly lower in Int than the MC.
>>44289923
If they're core/native, it shouldn't be a problem.
>PCs are captured by Orcs
>Whole adventure revolves around them not speaking Orcish and getting into all kinds of escaped slave shenanigans in Orc Country
>Each PC can just take a point in Linguistics and magically learn Orcish overnight after killing some dire rats
Thanks paizo I guess I'm throwing that idea into the trash
>>44290193
nice magical realm
>>44290227
>slavery is automatically magical realm
Only if your a /pol/ack
>>44290227
Why does everything have to have sexual connotations with you, /tg/?
>>44290193
okay so
They're in orc country, completely linguistically and culturally immersed (the way people say is the best way to pick up a language quickly) and you have a problem with them deciding to show that their characters have learned Orcish?
>>44290329
In one level-up?
Fuck yes, I have a problem with that.
Nigger you hit level 2 from like half a fucking dire rat and some RP. You could hit level 4 in a fucking week.
>>44290329
>>44290193
>>44290384
It only takes a month /at most/ living in a real-world country surrounded by people who only speak a language completely foreign to you before you can speak that language in a way that is at least understandable by anyone. You'll sound like a foreigner and might have a couple instances of broken syntax, but it really doesn't take long to learn a new language to at least a useful degree.
And where are you fighting Dire Rats that are worth 2000 XP?
>>44290406
>It only takes a month /at most/
In a magical fantasy world such as Golarion, sure.
Who would win in a fight, Empyreal Lord Cernunnos or a Space Gerbil?
>>44290453
Speaking as someone who lived in Germany for a while when I was in my early teens, it took me about a month and a half to get conversational fluency.
I expect adventurers to do better.
i have a question for a build. I'm a fairly new player and my GM allows just about all 3rd party books
i am playing a magus. my stats are: STR: 20, DEX:18, CON:11 INT: 18, WIS:17, CHA: 16. i am a tiefling.
my goal is to do the most amount of damage possible while still be versatile
>>44290504
is this a meme
>>44290492
>Early teens
The younger you are the easier it is to learn a language.
I learned English from fuckin' video games and TV on my own and was fluent by about 12.
If I tried that shit now it'd be impossible.
Uh am i crazy or does taking Flagellant (nonlethal damage staggers you rather than knocking you out) make Kineticist a lot more bearable?
>>44290504
what the FUCK are those stats
>>44290504
>>44290579
For real though what the actual fuck
Did you roll those? If so please tell me the source of your ridiculous luck.
>>44290473
The fight wouldn't happen, because Erastil would find out and ground little Cerny from going out that night.
Then he would take him on a hunting trip the next day so they can bond and talk about his anger issues, and how Cerny should find himself a nice filly to go courting with.
>>44290569
No, because the nonlethal damage can't be modified or bypassed in any way.
>>44290579
He probably rolled.
>>44290504
With those stats you are going to be very strong anon. If you want to deal damage with a magus, here are some tips.
You have a class feature called "Spell Combat" and "Spellstrike". Spellstrike means when you cast a touch spell like shocking grasp instead of touching someone you can swing your weapon at them instead, so you get a nice attack out of it.
Spell Combat lets you do your attacks and cast a spell in the same turn. You can thus make an attack, cast say shocking grasp (a touch spell) which lets you spellstrike your enemy.
Your spells can get you a variety of effects outside of damage and with stats that high you should have tons of skills so basically you already ARE massive damage and versatility.
>>44290523
It's harder but not impossible. You're just making excuse.
>>44290626
>implying the god of the hunt wouldn't approve of hunting an animal
Cucкs these days.
>>44290640
Oh shit missed the bottom passage.
>>44290662
Is a space gerbil considered an animal? It's a colossal gerbil that flies around in space devouring planet-fulls of people.
>>44290625
i did in fact roll those. i just happen to have a lot of luck on this character.
>>44290689
All the better reason to hunt it.
>>44290504
>My character is a magus tiefling whose goal is to do a lot of damage.
>>44290662
Going on a hunt is good and all, but it would be foolhardy if you aren't prepared for a dangerous hunt, and if the prey is an endangered species.
He's trying to tell Cerny that he should have gotten together either a Hunting buddy or party when trying to take down dangerous game. A foolhardy hunter is often a dead hunter.
>>44290755
Grounding accomplishes neither, cucкold.
>>44290838
why must you be so edgy? we're all friends here
>>44290863
I'm bored as shit because the session was delayed.
>>44290838
That's why I said they where going to go on the hunting trip afterwards the next morning. For now though Cerny needs to take a chill pill
Also what's with you obsession with cuckoldry? Did you just migrate from /pol/, or do you just have some repressed problems you need to talk about?
>>44290951
It's easy bait and I just realized I don't have the patience to keep putting effort into this. See above.
>>44290745
im new and it sounded reasonable. i don't understand the response.
>>44290898
>>44290972
>I'm bored as shit, so I'm just going to shitpost
I think you need to spend some time off of 4chan
>>44290473
How do I even go about making a character that can kill something like this?
>>44291033
I think a full party of level 20 characters with legendary gear could probably take him on.
Probably.
>>44291011
I considered it but I don't want to go outside in the rain, I already ate, and I have no work to do now that it's winter break. I'm currently playing vidya but I discovered there's a decent amount of idle time that I now spend shitposting. I guess I could discuss character concepts.
What's the best grappler anyone has ever seen built at a reasonable level, say 6 or 12?
>>44291011
this
>>44290972
>>44290898
please keep /b/ on /b/
Is it just me, or is the zweihander sentinel the best martial class of the game?
>>44291093
Haha, sure. So have you guys stopped wanting to obsessively talk about your waifus or how terrible SJWs/Paizo staff are? Or do you just prefer the local flavor of shitposting?
>>44291145
It's just you. Aegis is the best.
>>44291087
Cavalier(Constable)6, Unchained Monk(Master of Many Styles) 1, Running this currently, Grapple Bonus is +22 by default, Feats of interest are Snapping Turtle and Kraken Style chains.
Doing 11 Damage each time I grapple/maintain, as well as being able to CDG any pinned target after a minimum of 1 round.
>>44291087
>this whole post
>admitting to shitposting
This is almost virt levels of autism
I think there is a better board for your kind
>>>/r9k/
>>44291087
Constable Cavalier.
>>44291213
>posting animu avatars
>shitposting
Oh the irony.
>>44291161
There's the door.
>>44291228
muh nigga
>>44291231
Cry more.
>>44291231
I'm on mobile, and its the only incredulous face I have on this phone.
And Guilty Gear is a fighting vidya game, not an animu, keep trying though, your shitposting is getting better
>>44291239
Good to see you finally found it after only this long. Feel free to use it whenever.
>>44291275
You're apparently not even the guy who posted that, if >>44291282 is accurate. How's it feel to be a whiteknight? What do you use to treat your butthurt?
>>44291314
>How's it feel to be a whiteknight?
The /v/ is strong with this one.
>>44289923
>mfw I was the only nonhuman in the initial party forshattered star
>mfw I am the only player with a male PC, even after adding additional party members
>mfw I am playing a single father among a bunch of relatively young female adventurers
>mfw the barbarian won't stop hitting on me
Some campaigns just get crazy.
>>44291314
I do not suffer, after all, I'm immune to magical and nonmagical disease, and gain my CHA to all saves.
>>44291357
So have you realized you're also shitposting yet, are you about to try and pull some "merely pretending" shit, or something else?
To keep this vaguely PF-related: >>44291378
How's that code of conduct treating you? Picked which deity yet?
>>44291405
Pretty well, I picked Asmodeus.
>>44291405
Different anon, my usualy code of conduct, when i am allowed to use my own, is the Categorical Imperative of Kant.
>>44291434
Please don't tell me you actually worship Crystal's weirdo transfeminist version of Asmodeus. I mean, even ignoring the trait requirement would be better than being a Holomog resident.
>>44291455
Nice. How do your characters justify it? As I recall, the flaw in the Imperative was that it couldn't pass its own test. Something about there being no convincing reason that it should be universal.
Hello PFG
I find myself with a rare spare hour, so I come seeking feedback and to deliver news on Steelforge
1) Nonmagical Enhancements will be revised and ready to test once more by next Sunday, since I have a long shift of nothing Christmas Day and will probably have time to finish it
2) A new archetype of the Harbinger, the Iron Baron, is in the works. The emotional theme is Neglect, and it should be finished around the same time as number one. (Thought I was done the other day, but Gareth set me straight)
3) Due to feedback, the Forgelord has dropped the requirement that you have to be able to craft a magic item to Attune with it.
I am gathering feedback on Steelforge, and fielding questions on it and Akasha, for the next hour. Focused feedback is requested on the Ectoplasmic Manufacturer archetype, as well as the Legendary Items.
>>44291405
I doubt an admitted shitposter has any authority to call someone else out for shitposting.
Also, not him, but I'm currently building myself a good ol' Paladin of Dammerich. That obedience is just so good.
As for myself, Kierkegaard Paladin of Existentialism.
>>44291474
I'm going to say no, because I don't actually know what you're talking about.
Asmodeus and "weirdo transfeminist" don't belong in the same sentence, as far as I know.
>>44291474
Well my current character is also a Hellknight. There's no need for a convincing reason, he IS the universal law. Or at least fighting for it.
>>44291490
>authority
>4chan
You're a bit confused, aren't you? And have you ever heard that it takes one to know one?
>>44291485
Oh, nice. Good to hear the enhancements will be tweaked. Is that the /pfg/ crowdfunded archetype? Because I vaguely remember that being a teamwork-based embarrassment-themed archetype.
>>44291514
Oh, good. You should probably never read Distant Shores, then.
>>44291455
>Kant
please leave,
My GM wants to run Jade Regent. Any rules we should avoid?
>Zweihander Training
>At 1st level, when wielding a two-handed weapon or a one-handed weapon in both hands, the warder gains a shield bonus to his armor class equal to his aegis class feature bonus.
Does this mean, if I have Scarlet Throne Style, I can get the shield bonus from Zweihander *and* the shield bonus from a shield in my other hand?
>>44291548
>Any rules we should avoid?
Caravan Rules should be thrown out.
Tell the DM to use the Relationship rules as a guideline to reflect how "easy" NPCs are, or what they're into, not an actual mechanic.
>>44291534
Picked up Distant Shores at flgs, saw that it was 99% garbage, put it back and disregarded it forever, I guess I missed whatever you're referring to.
Mind giving me the cliffnotes?
>>44291527
Fair enough.
>>44291490
And I forgot to comment on the rest of the post, because I'm sure you care so very much. Have to agree that Damerrich's pretty based. Especially that obedience.
>>44291548
I remember the caravan rules being shitty. The rest is okay, especially if he avoids making it a glorified escort mission.
>>44291554
Shield bonuses don't stack, they overlap.
>>44291554
>both hands
>>44291545
I hate Kantian philosphy too but the Categorical imperative works well in unifying Paladin and Hellknight code.
>>44291554
Nope because Scarlet Throne Style needs one of your hands empty.
You could get a buckler though.
>>44291534
Not crowdfunded, it's the system originally submitted by DrowAnon.
>>44291527
>>44291554
No, shield bonuses don't stack.
>>44291581
Crystal Frasier made a country of magical wymyn/transwymyn where only women can be the queen because all the men die if they try. One of the cities worships Asmodeus as a LN woman because he helped them negotiate a contract once. There's a trait for natives of that city to treat Asmodeus as LN for worshipping, which allows paladins of Asmodeus RAW.
>>44291627
Cool. I look forward to it, then.
>>44291604
>Scarlet Throne Style
>>44291624
>Nope because Scarlet Throne Style needs one of your hands empty.
Gareth has gone out to say Scarlet Throne Style actually allows you to wield a shield in one hand, you just aren't allowed to use it as a weapon.
>>44291554
If it's the same type of bonus twice I'm pretty sure it wouldn't stack anyway unless specifically stated otherwise.
Also see >>44291604 and >>44291624
>>44291659
Oh, and Crystal claimed it was noteworthy because it's a non-evil matriarchy.
>>44291087
>>44291192
Since we're talking about grapple build, I'm thinking about building Constrictor Companion with Dirty Fighting (Human with Eye for Talent to bump the snake INT up to 3 at level 1). The master will takes evolved companion: Sticky and probably Throat Slicer.
At level 7 that should be : 4 (BAB) + 7 (STR) + 1 (Size) + 4 (Grab) + 4 (Sticky) + 2 (Improved Grapple) = 22 CMB
Constrict for 1d4+10 damage.
Could boost it further with magic item like Dire Collar and buff spell. Does this looks good? Too bad animal has low BAB though so I have to wait before I can take Greater Grapple and Rapid Grappler.
