Can we now agree that this guy is the best player of his generation ? (comparing players of different eras is impossible and plain stupid)
-Was already very good and a starter in his NT at 19, in a team that consisted in Luis Figo, Rui Costa, Pauleta and Deco amongst others
-In his Manchester United days he was a better dribbler than most players in the world, better than guys like Zidane, Kaka or Iniesta ever were
-He was and still is one of the fastest players in the world
-Even though he was never a beast at taking free kicks, he was still quite good at it when playing for Man Utd
-He was and still is very good at headers
-He's one of the best penalty takers in the world
-He has saved Portugal's ass countless times
-He ruled the Premier League when it was still the best championship in the world
-He won the Champion's League, Ballons d'Or, league titles and such, with two different clubs
-He made two Euro final (won one), a WC semi-final and a Euro semi-final
-Countless records still belong to him especially in the Champion's League
-He's good at both short and long range passing (even though he's far from being the best here), and is quite good with crosses
-Over the years at Real Madrid he became an incredible goal scoring machine, and not only against small teams : he scored a lot against FC Barcelona, FC Sevilla and Atletico Madrid for example
You just can't deny that this guy is the most complete player on earth and definitely the best overall, even though he's far from that on a few things (free-kicks and dribbling skills for a few years now)
What he's still doing at 31 is absolutely amazing, players at that age are far from his level
There's only one Ronaldo, and it's Cristiano Ronaldo.
in terms of accomplishments? definitely.
as a player Missi might just give him a shot for his money, but he just ate a big shit sandwich recently so who cares.
>>69509665
Ronaldinho was better
>>69509665
>There's only one Ronaldo, and it's Cristiano Ronaldo
Agree with everything else
>>69509665
I'd say as of 2016 CR7 tops Messi.
If Messi comes up big in 2018 and wins the WC with Argentina, or replicates his greatness with a team not Barca... I'll swing back to Messi being GOAT.
>people thinking having a single euro championship trophy qualifies him as a better player
Fucks sake
>>69509665
tl;dr
Messi is the best player of all time, Ronaldo is a beach boy that succeded
>>69509665
>he was a better dribbler than most players in the world, better than guys like Zidane
In terms of skills, yes. In terms of usefulness and collective intelligence (i.e. not just doing flashy stuff that will trap you near a corner), no.
truly the goat
>>69509726
Ronaldinho was amazing and to this day the most entertaining player to watch but Ronaldo is just more complete and way better overall. Also, Ronaldinho's peak didn't last very long
>>69509772
You might want to read the thread before actually replying
>>69509665
no
>>69509726
Ronaldinho was the most entertaining footballer ever, but CR7 and Messi are FAR better than he ever was and that's an objective fact.
As far Brazilian Ronaldo... He's GOAT World Cup player but not even close to Messi and CR7 when it comes to Club Football.
>>69509805
>2010 Ballon d'Or not going to Sneijder
>2012 Ballon d'Or not going to Xavi or Iniesta
At least when Ronaldo won his 3 Ballon d'Or he was actually the best player of these years (2008, 2013, 2014 and he should win the 2016 one as well, even though it's much much closer with Suarez this year)
>>69509665
>There's only one Ronaldo, and it's Cristiano Ronaldo.
Young R9 Ronaldo was better than him at all these things you listed, except maybe the headers.
Fat Ronaldo was the equivalent of Suarez today.
>>69509794
You've posted a load of subjective meaningless arsewash. The only point of this thread is due to the result on Sunday.
Frog idiot.
>>69509787
>31 year old Ronaldo vs 25 year old Griezmann
>>69509805
Look at all these things my club bought me .
>>69509805
Not pictured here an international trophy.
Messi was the best EVER for two years but since then CR7 has taken over.
>>69509852
I'm actually on holidays m8, I don't live in France
>>69509787
>Let's compare Ronaldo's stats with a 25 years-old guy playing in a much better national team
I'll make sure to compare 31yo Ronaldo's stats with Griezmann when he's 31 though
>he scored a lot against FC Barcelona, FC Sevilla and Atletico Madrid
>>69509849
The club stats say otherwise.
R9's best year at RM he scored 31 goals.
CR7's worst year at RM he scored 33...
>>69509837
>not even close to Messi and CR7 when it comes to Club Football
You mean the Ronaldo who scored 47 goals in 49 games with Barça, at age 20?
Messi is a better player than Ronaldo, I really can't see how anyone can argue otherwise after seeing both play. He's just able to impact a game more deeply than Ronaldo, and I think he's more consistent than Ronaldo.
Although I'd say if "god" was asked to create the perfect football player, a player that would do well in any era, it would probably be closer to Ronaldo than Messi. Ronaldo is fast, strong, great header, etc. He dominate in the 1920s, 1960s and 2000s. Messi is probably more suited to today's slower possession based football.
And of course, unless Messi wins a trophy with his NT he will never feel as accomplished as Ronaldo, even if he has a bazillion Liga's and twice as many Golden Ball's.
is he cute or uggo? i unironically can't make it out. i wanted to play like him back when i was a kid, am i gay for that?
>>69509849
Again, that's the same thing as for Ronaldinho ; incredible player, but his peak didn't last really long. You might as well talk about Falcao or Torres as world class players then, but it's completely wrong ; being on top of the world for 4 years isn't impressive. Being amongst the best players of the world for 10 fucking years is.
>>69509911
Ronaldinho only lasted like 3 years, those were some fucking great 3 years but his career is not comparable to Ronaldo's or Messi's
>>69509904
I literally said Fat Ronaldo (the one who played for Madrid) could be compared with SUAREZ. Not with CR7.
Young Ronaldo (who played at PSV and Barça) scored as much as CR7, without stat padding.
>>69509911
>>You mean the Ronaldo who scored 47 goals in 49 games with Barça, at age 20?
That was R9's best year by far.
In comparison CR7 has scored at least 50 goals for RM the past six seasons. Not even Messi has been that consistent.
CR7 is just better, its an objective fact.
Messi the greatest ever.
Ronaldo scoring one tap in every 5 attempts doesn't make him the best.
Messi is literally the GOAT with playmaking abilities, dribbling abilities, shooting abilities, and passing abilities
literally all Ronaldo does is score headers now. Imagine a 19 year old Messi that scored a hat trick against Real Madrid to catapult his career, by the time he was 21 he was already 2nd best in the world for 2 years, won the FIFA Player of the Year award before it became the Ballon d'Or. Then his goalscoring reached immeasurable levels, breaking records from 1950. Messi's prime as a goalscorer was the greatest of all TIME. If anyone saw 2009-2012 Messi, that was a robotic terminator sent from the future. And now he has shifted into a deeper playmaker, something Ronaldo cannot do if his life depended on him. That's why he is Penaldo now, that's why his highlights are scoring headers.
>>69509942
>>69509911
oh nvm you were talking about Ronaldo 9
well his problem was his health desu
>>69509942
RONALDO.
NOT RONALDINHO.
Were you even born when Ronaldo played for Barça?
Messi's WC final is worth more than an Euro.
>>69510008
top kek
>>69509960
>>69509984
Stat padding meme is retarded. If it was so easy to score tap ins everyone would be doing it.
>>69510008
/thread
this gypsy get's it three be honest.
I honestly think Messi is better.
In fact I think he's the best player in history.
Neither of those are my favorites, anyway.
>>69509960
>>69509984
You now, if scoring tap-ins and penalties was so easy everybody would have like 10+goals a season even the worst strikers.
There's a reason why Sandro or Morata can't score 3 goals a game even when playing in stacked to the max teams
>>69509983
Ronaldo's best year was at Inter.
>>69509665
Great post.
Agree with everything
>>69509983
CR7 lasted longer, but young R9 was superior in every way, except at being handsome.
>>69509988
Yeah. Very sad. He would have been the absolute GOAT and not one of the GOATs.
>>69509665
When was the last time Ronaldo scored a goal that wasn't a penalty? I honestly can't remember.
>>69510030
No. Real Madrid literally plays for him. Now CR7 looks like a super Inzaghi, more than like the best he was at Manchester U.
>>69509665
>here's only one Ronaldo, and it's Cristiano Ronaldo.
no. Ronaldo is Ronaldo.
fat ronaldo is best ronaldo
>>69509985
>And now he has shifted into a deeper playmaker
Fake penalties to assist current world's best striker and trying to make Neymar look good don't make him a "deep playmaker".
Both CR7 and Messi will never be able to have impact on the game the same way guys like Pirlo or Xavi could, yet they are still the best players in the world (Ronaldo being the very best)
>>69509984
while I think Messi is the best ever, for you to think you can describe Ronaldo's career as tap ins, it means you only started watching him like 2 years ago
>>69510036
For goals it was his year at Barca, for trophies it was at Inter.
>>69510034
>if scoring tap-ins and penalties was so easy everybody would have like 10+goals a season even the worst strikers.
Stop being a retard, that would imply each team gets 50 to 100 penalties per year.
Only one player can do stat padding by scoring all the penalties, not the whole team.
Did you just say scoring penalties was hard?
>>69509983
t. never watched ronaldo playing
>>69510100
Euros are finished, go back to Madeira/Morocco
>>69510076
>Real Madrid literally plays for him
So ? Liverpool literally played for Torres yet he couldn't do better than 82 goals in 3 seasons - Ronaldo scores almost as much in one season
>>69510124
Why don't you talk about tap-ins then ? You implied that it was easy to score tap-ins at first.
Did you just say taking penalties was easy ? Confirmed for never putting foot on a pitch
>>69510034
yes I agree that Ronaldo is a goal scoring machine, however, in his prime when Barca had no striker like suarez Messi scored an astronomic amout of goals and he does not the same style as ronaldo.
Ronaldo will always recieve the ball in the finishing zone, he rarely takes part in the game construction part.
While Messi at the moment is more of a playmaker assisting Suarez.
This euro proved that Ronaldo is bad when playing with players that can't assist him as good as benzema and bale do. Dude had like 30 shots and 3 goals, what a shit convertion rate.
>>69510111
For goals it was at PSV
>>69510042
This is objectively false.
R9 had one job - score goals. CR7 has more goals and assists in his average year at Real Madrid than R9 had in his best years.
With that said R9 is GOAT world cup players. I will never take that away from him(save that game vs France...)
>>69509665
He is not even the best player in Real madrid
>>69510102
>while I think Messi is the best ever
Maradona was better then messi.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iUHacq-ytE4
>>69510156
>R9 had one job - score goals
again >>69510129
>>69510147
Ronaldo missed a shitload of easy chances. Did you watch the game?
He tends to do that a lot. He is a streak scorer.
>Cristiano Ronaldo only scores tap-ins and close range headers
>Let's totally forget about his assists and talk about how the old fatfuck was good for 14 months at Inter
>>69510153
No it wasn't - His best year at PSV he scored 34.
His one year at Barca he scored 47.
>>69510145
I did not talk about tap-ins. But that makes CR7 a kind of Trezeguet or Inzaghi with better skills and fitness, not a real GOAT.
Any professional player can easily score penalties, with the exception of Zaza.
>>69510167
who is it though, Mehmet?
And unlike Messi he pays his taxes and bothered to learn English
>doesn't shoot 20 penalties a season
>doesn't take 500 shots a season
>has 370 goals since penaldo joined madrid (more than anyone in any league)
>has 150 assists since penaldo joined madrid (more than anyone in any league)
>actually scores in CL finals (not 120+2 penalties)
>has reached 4 internationa finals, not 2
>has actually reached a world cup final
>has actually played an international final in the last 10 years
reminder that no player ever will top messi's 11/12 season.
>>69510196
>Any professional player can easily score penalties
Ronaldo's conversion rate is 91% on his whole career m8, maybe you don't actually watch football but that's literally incredible
>>69510156
>R9 had one job - score goals
Completely wrong.
>>69510167
Agreed, Pepe is better.
ronaldo finishes off a great team, he adds a high number of goals. however he contributes little else, to build up or defensively. the last couple of years he has become a pure poacher. messi is someone you build a team around, he has incredible finishing and can play like a midfielder ie drop deep, dictate tempo and has a better range of passing. messi is the more 'complete' footballer by a distance, ronaldo is now incredibly specialised at one thing (putting the ball in the net, admittedly the biggest thing in football) but messi does everything
>>69510217
>hasn't paid taxes
>>69510217
Also has an Olympic gold which i guess counts for something
>>69510258
no it doesn't
>>69510250
This is ridiculous. You could put CR7 into any team and they'd be winners(RM, Manchester UTD, Portugal)
Can the same be said for Messi? Not until he moves on from Barca or wins something with Argentina.
>>69510172
Messi is basically like Maradona but with much better stats
and don't bring NT cuz winning a world cup by playing with your hand on purpose is straight up repulsive
>>69510145
>Liverpool
Enough said.
>>69510250
>Maradona had Valdano and Burruchaga to put the ball in the net
>Cristiano had Eder (even Sanches, even Quaresma)
>Pele had Vava, Jairzinho
literally the only reason we even have GOAT discussions is because Messi's #9 failed to chip the ball 3 times in 3 years
>and he's the serie A all-time goalscorer
fucking abysmal really.
>>69509856
>Look at this euro cup my NT won for me
Thanks OP I'm now a #Penaldo shot
>>69509862
Lol no. Messi 2015 fucks that gaynaldo ass easily.
>>69510308
>is because Messi's #9 ffailed to chip the ball
More like Messi failed to do anything of note 3 years in a row
>>69509665
After the Final Ronaldo finally turned face. This Summer revealed the true Evil of Football, Lionel Messi
>>69510287
Messi is basically like Maradona but with much better stats and minus the Cocaine
FTFY
>>69510287
>but Eder's hand was okay :)
>and pressuring the referee to punish Koscielny for that hand was, dare I say, moral :)
Don't take a moral stance m8.
>>69510217
>doesn't shoot 20 penalties
Not like he converts them all the time either
>actually scores in CL finals
1 more non-penalty
>has reached 4 international finals
And done literally nothing in any of them
>has actually reached a world cup final
And did nothing
>has actually played an international final
And done as much as Ronaldo did in 20 minutes on Sunday
>>69510250
>however he contributes little else to build up
This is how to instantly spot someone that doesn't even watch him play and just eats up awful /sp/ memes
Messi is the better player.
Ronaldo (with the Euro win) has had the better career.
Also people need to shut up about 'stat padding in La Liga'.
Ronaldo is the all time top goal scorer in the CL AND Euros now, so that argument is void.
>>69510356
It literally had no bearing on the game m8
>>69510356
>but Thierry Henry's hand was okay :)
see how retarded it sounds to bring up something completely irrelevant to the topic? I was talking about how Messi is better than Maradona even without a World Cup amigo
>>69510390
let me correct you
He is tied with platini, tho platini had 8 goals in like 3 matches, so he is 1st place.
>>69510417
I know he's tied.
It means he's the all time top goal score of the Euros AS is Platini.
He's still top.
>>69510417
>1980s
mate Steaua Bucharest won the CL in the 80s
>>69510394
One minute later, Eder scores and Koscielny goes soft on him to avoid getting another yellow.
It was not a goal-scoring action but it's horrendous and unsportsmanlike. A Portuguese supporter whose players do this kind of stuff can't complain about Maradona's hand.
If Maradona had been Portuguese, he would have complained to the referee after scoring with his hand, and the goalkeeper would have had a yellow.
>>69510417
Why are you trying so hard to argue against Ronaldo here?
>>69510286
Why would he move to a worse team? Makes no sense. Ronaldo moved from a soso team to a really good team and then to one of the top three teams (and the top rich) team. The truth is most everyones opinion is decided already because of likeability and team fanboyism and will say any stupid worthless argument for diminishing the other one and cock ride the GOAT he likes. Ronaldo has better leadership and personality for what it counts and messi is abetter player. All you have to do is watch the muthafucka games to reach that conclusion. Even when barcelona is better team than madrid it takes half season or less of watching it to see that Messi does a lot more for his team than ronaldo (which in turn makes barcelona better). Anyway for baiting is great doing those thread but dont be deluded, messi is the MuthafuckiN GOAT
>>69510485
Yeah I'd think a Portugay would be sucking some cr7 dick right now.
Either he's a bitter contrarian or a proxy.
>>69510409
Nah, Henry's hand was shit and I wish France never went to WC 2010.
I'm not bashing Maradona for his hand though. Leave being "moral" to other flags.
>>69510498
Messi has yet to prove himself outside of Barcelona.
CR7 has now won championships with three different teams.
This isnt a fluke, this isn't luck, CR7 is the real.
>>69510532
okay I understand why he did, but I can't just ignore that the only thing he has that Messi doesn't have and ranks him better than Messi was won through cheating
ronaldo
>>69510597
Thank you for your great contribution to thread, Australia
>>69509856
like rooonaldu played in the final and won the euro lelel
in terms of ability, Messi is better in every way except headers
in terms of club ability, Messi has twice the domestic trophies, more Champions Leagues, more player of the year awards, more goals, more assists, higher accuracy, etc
in terms of International play
4 finals, olympic, and youth vs 2 finals, one of which he didn't play
the comparison is not even close
Ronaldo looks like a god compared to everyone else, but then there is Messi, who is in a level above him. the echelon known as "GOAT"
>>69510626
Messi played four finals and lost.
Makes you think...
>>69509665
Here's how the Ronaldo vs Messi argument breaks down on a psychological level:
In a general sense people who are Type A tend to support Ronaldo because they see him as an example or see their own attributes in him. There's no disputing that Messi has more natural talent, but the fact that Ronaldo managed to raise himself to that level through sheer hard work and force of will alone is what appeals to the people who go about their own lives in that manner.
The people who tend to favor Messi are the people that live their lives based on natural talent. It's not their fault they're not successful, they just born with enough talent. Hard work isn't worth it to them because they don't believe they can overcome their circumstances. They use Messi as a justification for their lives, either as a rationalization for why they weren't' successful or why other people are.
Obviously this doesn't apply to 100% of cases, but as a general observation, you'll find this is pretty accurate. A Barcelona supporter or an Argentinian will most likely support Messi regardless the same way a Madrid/United supporter or a Portuguese person will likely support Ronaldo. My point is mainly focused towards observers that don't have a larger loyalty clash.
>>69510645
Certainly does. Argentina really only deserved to lose one of those (WC2014)
>>69510645
it does he should have got injured and let his team score then take all the credit like tsuu. Really makes u think
>>69510565
Messi doesnt have to prove shit as i said early and as you would know if you actually watched football out if international tournaments and CL finals, Barcelona being that good and dominant has to do a lot with messi. Not saying is just thanks to messi just saying the system babby shit is bullshit. If someone is just feeded more in his team of those two, is cristiano.
>messi wins everything for barcelona
>b-but he's a system babby!
>messi plays in an entirely different position with 10 different players in the international level and gets to extra time in a world cup final
>b-but he's a system babby!
>messi scores more goals
>b-but ronaldo scores a lot too!
>messi has the most assists in the world
>b-but..b-BUT!!
the little midget is one of the all-time greats and there's nothing you can say that makes Ronaldo better in any way. Literally the only reason people can even bother to mention his name is because Gignac hit the post and Eder scored. Ronaldo
>DID
>NOT
>EVEN
>PLAY
>>69510671
>deserved
He lost fair and square, he deserved to lose them all if the team didn't play well enough to win
>>69510250
>however he contributes little else, to build up or defensively
Haha what the fuck does that mean? Most of the time he is involved in build up plays, as in contributing to goals in some manner such as assist or goal. If you mean sitting back like a play maker Madrid has players like Ozil, Xabi and Di Maria to do that. And defense? Yeah I want to best goal scorer of all time to waster time and energy by dropping back to help defense, like lmao. Maybe dropping deeper and playing like Messi would stop a lot of criticism, hiding in the back when your team needs you the most is a great way to be a winner, like being in 4 finals and still end up without a trophy.
>>69510719
Messi still defends
>90+2 in a world cup final
>still contesting like a mad man
>boateng flicks ball
>Messi still runs after it in the last few frames
>>69510710
>he
FFS, isn't there a niggerhoop thread you can shit with your ignorance?
>>69510703
this my amara friend
>>69510710
>he
Oh yeah I forgot about USA legendary knowledge
>>69510590
Maybe Messi should have cheated a bit more, and have a bit fewer regrets?
C. Ronaldo never hesitates to dive for example.
>>69510628
>Ronaldo looks like a god compared to everyone else
2012 called and wants his memes back. Now he's a super poacher, slightly inferior to Suarez in terms of efficiency.
>>69510628
>in terms of ability, Messi is better in every way except headers
Also long distance shots
>more goals
Ronaldo has a better goal record than Messi since he came to La Liga
>in terms of International play
All of that means shit because Ronaldo won something and Messi hasn't.
>>69510756
funny you chose that clip, because you're kind of proving his point.
Do you not think Messi would have been better positioned up field to facilitate a goal for the 2 strikers that were tied up by the back line rather than in his own half playing hoofball right into the defense?
>>69510807
>now he's a super poacher
Pure /sp/ meme
>>69510807
you know I said Messi was better than Ronaldo right? bringing up Ronaldo doesn't make sense again
it's like you're replying me purely based on me being Portuguese, unless you ain't the same frenchbro from last time
>>69510816
>Ronaldo has a better goal record than Messi since he came to La Liga
How many Ligas won though?
>>69510829
Jesus christ.
>>69509887
>>much better national team
that's why you lost because you were much better
fuck gaynaldo
>>69510864
That's not the claim I was challenging.
He said Messi has scored more goals.
What is this 'you have to do well on the international level to be considered great' meme?
Obviously it should be entirely about club performance. There's only an international tournament every two years, that's one tournament every two years up for grabs instead of 4 or 5 per season. Also, what about people from shitty footballing countries? Can they not be good? Was George Best, for example, a worse player than Éder because his national team did worse? How retarded
>>69510840
Didn't he score his three Euro goals really close from the goal line?
Has Messi scored a single meaningful goal for Argentina? A big goal in a tightly contested competitive game?
>>69510664
Leader vs. Victim imotbh
>Ronaldo gets taken out in the final, still pulls himself up by the bootstraps and does everything he can to help his teammates win
>Messi chokes the first PK, sulks the rest of the time and puts his whole team under pressure to win, quits the NT like a petulant child and blames the FA when they lose.
Ronaldo probably has a future in coaching if he wants it. I seriously doubt Messi has the capability to coach.
>>69510855
This whole thread is a Messi vs C. Ronaldo dick measuring contest.
No, Messi is still better
>>69510756
Messi was statistically one of the most stationary player at the world cup.
Did you even watch him? Most of the time he was chilling waiting for the ball.
Ronaldo did a lot more tracking back and defending at the Euros.
>>69509665
Never doubted him, ever. He's the GOAT
>>69510885
shhhhhhh, logic isn't allowed around here
his team won 2 and only 2 game in the regular time ... He didn't play more than 15min in one of , the final by the way
Why is anyone even attempting to have a logical debate over the 'best player'?
It's a purely visual contest. Watch the two play. Messi is clearly a far more talented and able footballer, as a whole. There is literally no contest. Statistics and team achievements are completely irrelevant to an individual's 'quality'.
>>69510761
You're arguing the semantics of a single word, calm down you fucking autist
>>69510962
>2
1.
>>69510795
Oh look, another autist nitpicking at a single world
>USA legendary knowledge
From an autist getting upset over "he'
>>69509844
Is this a joke? 2013 and 2014 were the most undeserving ever. Specialty 2013, when he won a total of 0 (zero) titles that year
>>69510886
What does that have to do with anything? He's still very much involved in many aspects of the attack
>>69510906
well then if you look at goals, assists, importance in plays, chances created, free kicks and dribbles Messi is clearly all around better
but I don't really like how people in this thread when arguing for R9 and Ronaldinho they bring up their best seasons but when arguing against Ronaldo they criticize his current form, which is clearly his worst ever
>>69510982
You're a fucking idiot, Piss off to the ape collide threads.
>>69511000
2014 wasn't undeserving in the slightest bit
Easily Madrid's best player in their double winning season which included the CL
>>69510885
If ANYTHING, that logic is in favour of Ronaldo rather than Messi.
Argentina is a huge country and footballing nation whereas Portugal is tiny and has been poor internationally.
What does it say about Messi considering he's been to all these international finals and hasn't won anything?
>>69510920
Messi's 2014 performance is one of the most overrated ever.
>>69511027
And you're a giant fucking aspie. You're not actually arguing anything here other than a case that your mother should've aborted you
>>69511012
If we're taking R9 and CR7 at their best, if we want to be fair... R9 is the better player.
Only Messi is on the level of best R9.
>>69511032
>What does it say about Messi considering he's been to all these international finals and hasn't won anything?
More about his mentality, spirit, nationality issues, self confidence and ability to handle pressure, and less about his individual ability and skill as a footballer.
If being the best footballer is not about the most skillful, but being the strongest willed and most determined, then yes, messi is far far from the GOAT.
Personally, I think the metric of 'best footballer' should purely be considered on the basis of a player's ability/quality in a vacuum.
>>69511032
No, the argument is that you should forget international level when considering how good a player is and look almost solely at his performances for his club. Anyway, even if you do want to look at international performances, then would you say that if Messi and Argentina had beat Chile then Messi would suddenly be one of the world's best? Or if Goetze hadn't scored that World Cup goal?
By looking an international level you're judging a player on 5 or 6 games maximum in the space of a 2 year period instead of the 60 or whatever that Messi or Ronaldo play for their club in a single season
>this mad af americunt
>>69511105
>say something stupid
>get be surprised when someone not stupid chastises you for it
>>69510703
Messi hasn't scored more goals than Ronaldo in years.
Sorry facts hate you and your dumb argument.
>>69511077
Prime R9 > Prime Cr7
All around Cr7 > All around R9
Prime Messi > Prime Cr7
All around Messi > All around Cr7 (if he doesn't suddenly start playing like shit the next years)
feels bad to be Portuguese and say this but Messi is just on another level ;_;
I think Messi is a better player but using WC 2014 as a reason for him being better than Ronaldo is retarded. Messi was nowhere in the knockout stages (ironic since Ronaldo is the one who usually gets criticized for that), he didn't even run as seen here >>69510920 Argentina reached the final by scoring a grand total of 2 (two) goals in the knockout round, for comparison Portugal scored 5 in this Euro.
>>69511029
I would say it was Bale/Ramos (clutch in the semifinals and the final), but it's more about how ridiculously good was Neuer that year, winning the league and the WC, in which he was decisive tons of times, specially in the group stages and in the final. That very same WC C. Ronaldo was dogshit and finished behind USA, but this time third teams did not qualify for the round of 16.
>>69511225
Ronaldo came up just as clutch in the semi finals, help set up Benzema's goal, scored two in the 2nd leg and played very well while tracking back and actually defending
>how ridiculously good Neuer was that year
He had an absolute cakewalk in the Bundesliga along with Bayern as a whole, he was great in the Word Cup but nothing that would merit him being the best player in the world
People who love men think CR7 is the best.
People who love football know Messi in the best right now (tied with Maradona as far as skills go)
>>69509665
Moreover, he is a law-abiding citizen, pays taxes, and dumped his supermodel gf because she didn't go to his mom's birthday, he is also more committed to his fans and charity work than Messi
>>69510517
there's a lot of bitter Portuguese guys who bash Ronaldo out of a sharp feeling of inadequacy from being failures at life.
Seriously, these are the type of person who bash anyone and everything that succeeds and have nothing to show for their own life.
>>69511271
did that sound good in your head?
and you mean dribble, neither of them do that many skills
>>69510312
look at this euro cup my NT wouldnt be even competing for if i didnt saved their asses in all those games before the final or the competition itself
>lardican still mad af
>>69510308
Portugal kept fighting cause of Ronaldo, i feel like the Portugal players are more connected with Ronaldo than Messi with Argentina.
It does suck that Messi doesn't get the help or encouragement from his teammates like Ronaldo
All of the Portugal players were praising and saying how it was for Ronaldo the Euro. Kinda weird if you ask me, but that shows his leadership skills
Yes, Messi isn't a leader, and he doesn't want to be one, Argentina in order to succeed must get a leader and have him help the team and especially Messi
>>69510250
Meanwhile every team that Ronaldo played with touched a trophy.
Messi stuck at Barcelona for ever because he can't play if it doesn't revolve around him.
>liking a criminal
>get BTFO
>get so SHOOK that you can't even reply to me
kek
kek
KEK
>>69511296
lets be honest here he only saved us from a position he had put us in the first place by missing a lot of easy chances and a penalty
>>69511225
Wasn't Ronaldo injured in the WC?
Like just by the eye test he looked way off.
let's just say we are judging Ronaldo based on big games alone, because the minnows like Elche and Shaktar and Hull city don't matter
2008:
>Cristiano plays like a mad man in the group stages, can't do anything against Barcelona with a young Messi there, Paul Scholes scores a fucking blooter (one of the greatest goals ever) and leads Manchester United to the final 1-0.
>where is ronaldo?
In the CL Final, Cristiano scores, but then misses his penalty. The only Manchester United player to miss the penalty in the shootout, they still win.
Man of the Match: Edwin van der Sar
>where is ronaldo?
2014 CL
>Ramos scores twice, then Benzema scores to put Real Madrid 3-0 against Bayern and lead them to the final.
>final: Cristiano stands around being a nuissance, Ramos (defender) scores in the 93rd minute to send the game to extra time,
Man of the Match: Angel Di Maria
>where is ronaldo?
2016 CL final: Ronaldo barely even attempts to run, Bale makes up for Ronaldo by working like a horse and gets injured and needs to stretch multiple times later in the game. Ronaldo does nothing until the 5th penalty shot after Juanfran missed for Atletico
Man of the Match: Sergio Ramos
>where is ronaldo
2016 Euro:
gets injured in 8 minutes, walks for 15 more, subbed out
team wins without him
before the final:
>cristiano misses 7 opportunities in the first two matches, including a penalty against Austria, so he is forced to play well against a Hungarian B team (already qualified) and get a draw to finish 3rd place in the group
>plays piss poor against Croatia in the worst game of the tournament, 0 shots in 115 minutes, misses the goal to win the game, but Quaresma is there to tap it in
>against Poland, Renato Sanches (18 yr old) saves Portugal and scores the bloot to level 1-1 and sends the match to penalties
>against Wales, Ronaldo finally shows up, scoring the first goal. His assist is a poor shot on target but Nani is there to divert the ball into the net.
>>69511334
Yes, from a recurring injury that made him miss Madrid's game against Dortmund that season where Dortmund almost eliminated them again
>>69511332
Yeah but he was clutch against Wales who were a very good defensive team.
Honestly the only terrible game he had was the Poland one. That game he was a net negative on the pitch. The Iceland/Austria game was just him being awfully unlucky.
>>69511324
can't play or can't win?
>>69511356
Autism
Autism
Autism
Autism
Youtube-tier shitposting famalam
>>69511139
top kek
though if it gets popular enough and more funded they could actually do it in some 15 years from now
>>69511368
can't plin
>>69511356
Why do you judge him on the penalty shootout in the CL 2008 even though his general play was excellent (seriously, he absolutely ripped Essien apart in that game)?
At least be fair.
>>69511366
the Croatia one he was pretty invisible but that was also cuz the ball didn't pass from the fucking midfield so yeah true
>>69511356
>posting stats from January
the seasons been over for close to 2 months now my guy
>>69511372
but he's right. Ronaldo never had a great performance in a final.
Exhibitions like this year's quarter finals against schalke puts him in a top tier status but again he needs help in the crucial moments.
>amerifat absolutely btfo
Do Messi lovers even think Ronaldo is no. 2 of this generation? (last 8-10 years)
Iniesta?
Suarez?
Kaka?
>>69510899
This
Hyped as fuck for ronaldo becoming coach.
Watching him be like a madman on the sideline.
TSSSUUUUing during post match interview.
>>69511420
he was good in the 2008 UCL Final, only in the penalty shootouts did he choke
>>69511420
>but he's right
There's no reason to take you or him seriously, literally disregards Ronaldo's final performance in 2008 just because of the missed penalty. Completely ignoring his overall performance and the fact without the goal, United don't even go to penalties
But go ahead and tell me why the rest of that wall of autism is even worth reading
>help in the crucial moments
Like scoring a hat trick down 2-0 aggregate to send Madrid to the semi finals?????????????????????//
>>69510185
After a season like that at Real Madrid... You do talk the talk
>>69511420
Ok serious question, did you guys even watch the CL finals against Chelsea?
Quite ironic how that penalty miss has overshadowed a great performance. Seems like his haters and the media have quite a few things in common.
>>69511295
>accurate long passes isn't a skill in portugal
You learn something new everyday.
>>69511396
because this is 4chan and people (within and without. Generally speaking, that is) will go to lengths to "prove" their point by being dishonest.
>hey man, look, I'm selling you all the nutrition you need for the day inside this bag! It's healthy food, too! prepared it this morning. want it?
>dude, that's a bag of shit!
They always leave out important counter-information.
>tfw you've shook a bootyblasted brit to the core so bad they begin to have a crush on you
>>69510968
>Statistiques are not proving anything
>my own judgment watching them play does.
Top banter m8
>i rate ronaldo
>>69511461
>>69511465
desu I didn't watch 2008.
>>69511468
lol everything you're good is a skill, when we say skills we mean the shit Ronaldinho does
>>69510968
Magic isn't real, no matter how talented and able those professionals are at purely visual contests.
>>69511484
>I dont value my own judgement
Do I even need to say it?
>>69510258
>olymic football
>>69511512
So what point are you making?
That football is imaginary?
>>69511511
*good at
I hope this latest injury forces Ronaldo to calm the fuckdown and stop playing 90+3m against the likes of Elche and Gijon after a midweek CL game.
Dude seriously needs to start taking it easy.
>the only thing ronaldo has over messi is scoring goals
>not even the best at that
suicide watch
Look man! Ronaldo SUCKS!!! He even missed a penalty kick in 2008! His team carried him!
>completely glosses over his 2 goals that carried the team in the previous match, as well as his goal that ENABLED PK tie-breaker.
Lol dude, Ronaldo sucks so much ass in 2016
>completely glosses over the fact (because he's an ignorant fuck) that Ronaldo saved his NT from being thrown out of the competition with a shitload of desperate goals before the group phases even begun
He's a crying diva!
>completely glosses over the fact that EVERY losing team cries at the finals
He's arrogant
>completely glosses over the fact that he apologises to fans he hurts with the ball constantly
An Egomaniac!
>glosses over the fact that he consoled THREE MATCHES IN A ROW enemy team's players
He says politically incorrect things! Like "Iceland has a small mentality because they play to tie. Not to win."
And you know what? That's because he's got a winner's mentality. He can't understand why someone would ever settle down for second best result. It's the reason he's up there on top 5 players of all time.
>I told Francois to go bait a bunch of faggots into arguing on /sp/ and he did it. The absolute madman.
The only reason why people on here propped up Ronaldo because Messi fans were annoying as fuck. Lets not start the Ronaldo is GOAT meme please.
>>69511396
The OP is being super dishonest, but people who actually watch football know Ronaldo was amazing in the 2008 final despite missing the pen.
>>69511531
nope. I'm making the -not so farfetched- point that visual contests don't accrue to anything on the level of cold, hard facts.
>>69511606
>they hate me because im rich, handsome, and a good player
>if my teammates were as good as me, we'd win
he's a trash human being
that's why his public representative has tried so hard to change him now that he's over 30 years old
>>69510968
>stats dont matter
>trophies dont matter
>teams dont matter
>what matter is my opinion guys
>>69511604
messi is a system baby though...
>>69511604
Messi will decline too
Ronaldo has found a way to deal with it and still score
Let's see if Messi can do that
>>69511638
Messi has declined. And he isn't scoring as many goals.
>>69510968
I agree most of these Messi v Ronaldo arguments online are had by prepubescent fucks from the US and Canada. We all know how big stats are in our sports so they try to view soccer the same. It is pointless.
>>69511624
I still remember when people tried to tell that the portuguese should hate Ronaldo becauseof shit like this.
He's loved. His death will have even a bigger impact than Eusébio. That is Ronaldo's legacy. 11 Million people will always remember and adore him.
When Messi dies only poop will care.
these 2 are 2 overrated fucks
barcelona and real madrid score 5 every weekend regardless of if they are playing or not, they are both statman systembabbies
>>69511624
isn't it true, tho?
Were Justin Bieber to be some no-body. Would you still hate him?
Why hate on the guy for not having a filter on his mouth? Messi thinks the same kind of thing as well, he's human too. Difference is Messi is slightly worse a human being but hides it better.
However, When Messi does show his true nature, it's slightly shittier:
>I have given up on my NT because I'm tired of looking bad.
>I will sulk and throw a tantrum after failing PK even tho I'm team captain.
>I will spit at fans (he did)
>I will kick the ball at enemy team's fans on purpose (he did)
I'm way partial to Ronaldo over Messi. But the later has some serious shit inside him that people are blind to because of media bullshit.
>>69511356
2006 CL Final MOTM: Eto'o
2009 CL Final MOTM: Xavi
2011 CL Final MOTM: Messi
2015 CL Final MOTM: Iniesta
2014 WC Final: Lost
2015 Copa America Final: Lost
2016 Copa America Final: Lost
I think Messi is better but judging players by Finals performances is retarded, finals are usually very defensive and defenders/midfielders are often more important than forwards
>>69511647
>messi has declined
moving deeper now that he doesn't have Pedro and Bojan and he doesn't have to score 50 goals doesn't mean he his ability has declined, he can simply just rely on his teammates to score because they're actually world class now. He would not have scored 92 goals in a year if he played with better forwards in 2012
>>69511667
Messi is a traitor to Argentina. Can you imagine the uproar if Ronaldo had gone "Won't participate anymore, i can't handle it" in 2014?
Why can't Rolando fans just accept that even though Rolando has achieved more with his abilities than Messi has, that Messi is still the better individual talent?
Messi is a fucking artist on the pitch. He does things that literally no other players can do. He doesn't even have a position because he transcends traditional description of what a footballer is, because he can do literally everything that every position requires, ahead
of the halfway line, and he does it in a truely brilliant way, unlike anyone else can.
Yes he's an autist. Yes he's failed with Argentina because he's a pussy. Yes Rolando is a big strong man who shouts and screams at his teammates to make them better. But who gives a fuck. He isn't half as special with a ball at his feet.
>>69511692
not just a traitor to Argentina.
Can you imagine the psychological backhand/bitchslap this bastard dealt his ENTIRE team mates?
I mean, sure, "Argentina is not worth playing for" is a strong message for the nation. But each individual player has got to be feeling it deep inside too because what he said also counts as:
>My countrymen are below me. So far beneath me in fact, I refuse to play the NT with them.
Holy fucking shit. I'll say it again : Ronaldo has a potty mouth which gets him in trouble time and time again. But he's got a heart of gold; Messi has a mouth of gold but shit for a heart.
>>69511271
Faggot
>>69511718
he can do everything, except lead his team to a win
top kek
systemfags are mad
>>69511753
Is that why you watch football?
To see a captain motivate his teammates?
>>69511762
i watch to see who is better
the better team and player WINS
>>69511775
But the team with the best individual does not always win.
You know this.
>>69511604
This is old, here's where we stand today:
C. Ronaldo
Club matches: 673
Club goals: 487
Int matches: 133
Int: Goals: 61
Total 806 matches, 548 goals
Messi
Club matches: 531
Club goals: 453
Int matches: 113
Int goals: 55
Totals: 644 matches, 508 goals.
Ronaldo is starting to pull away on that goal stat.
>Messi is a better dribbler
>Messi is a better freekick taker
>Messi is a better passer
>Messi is a better goal scorer
>best overall
>>69511718
Messi has more innate talent.
However, just as what happened in "the turtle and he hare" (or however you call it in english) , the rabbit's natural tallent was quelled by it's own shit spirit.
Ronaldo was born a tortoise.
>Mocked by his team-mates for being ugly as fuck.
>Moved into Portugal ALONE at age 12 to train and get better.
>His father, moved into Lisbon and was the club's janitor in order to gain enough money to pay his school.
>CR7 got even more mocked and isolated for this
>his father died of alcoholism
>CR7 gets even more isolated
>Through all the shit he goes through, all the time he fought alone to acomplish his dreams, feeling under attack by everyone, he never developed a good social filter on what's acceptable to say.
>because of this, he loses out to Messi on UEFA's "who's the good-boy" competition.
>Even gets criticised for throwing a reporter's micro into the lake.
>Even tho said reporter's TV station was responsible for airing an interview with his balls-drunk father the night before. For no reason other than shit stirr.
>He gets shat on for it.
Fuck you guys. He's self-made. He's got issues. But what matters is not that he's got short-comings. It's that he's made it past seemingly unsurmountable walls with an iron will.
>>69511804
CR7 will end his career with more goals overall, and more int. trophies.
>>69511790
the supposedly best player ever of the sport cant give the edge to win one single tournaument with his team of already great individuals?
what kind of logic is that, a lot of players who were arguably worse could, but the "best" cant?
>>69511790
Messi turned into a net NEGATIVE impact factor in the pitch the moment he decided to sulk.
Talk all you want about "tallent". When Ronaldo moves his team to victory with an (as recalled by hus NT team-mates) awe inspiring half-time speech, he's the better player. The man with the most positive impact inside the pitch. And he didn't even have to be inside it to be the better man.
>>69511804
>freekick taker
18-28 year old Ronaldo > 18-28 year old Messi when it comes to free kicks
the last 3 years Ronaldo has been completely horrible at 3 years doe so that may change if Messi going at it till he's 31
>>69511845
This. Gretzky won it with team Canada, Jordan with Team USA.
The Argies are goddamned stacked and have 4 placed finals to prove it, they're just unlucky choke artists who needed "the best ever" to show up and do the job... But he didn't.
>>69511845
>>69511852
So the best player is the best motivator and inspiration even if he isn't the actual best 'player'?
Fair enough is that's how you see it.
>>69511852
>Messi sulks when he fails the PK.
And people call Ronaldo the attentionwhoring diva. HAHAHA. What a joke. Messi can't even be selfless enough to motivate his team to play inspite of his own personal performance.
>all these poortuguese moors fellating Penaldo despite hin doing fuck all in the final and in like 2 knockout games
>trying this hard to bring down Messi with nonsense like Penaldo singlehandedly saving Portugal in the euros even though they did fine in like 5/7 games while he did fuck all.
Penaldo fags really do carry an inferiority complex. There's no trophy that Ronaldo can win that can make Messi's career statistics inferior. Messi is the goat because of the amount of goals assists and dribbles he produced in his career from deep positions, the trophies are the bonus.
>>69510308
Sauce on this glorious blonde pls
>>69511868
Ronaldo scored more free kicks than penalties in the 07-08 Man Utd season.
He's had the best year so far. A champions an a Euro are better than two spanish cups.
Anyways it's still early to figure out who's the best. Messi is younger and Ronaldo is getting older and he seems to get injured more frequently.
We don't know until they both retire
Who knows what if messi wins the next world cup or what if ronaldo does, we don't know yet. Or what if something unfortunate happens
>>69511882
the best player is the one who has the most impact
it doesnt matter if some player dribbles thru 5 defenders if it doesnt lead to scoring
>>69511882
It's part of the game.
Ronaldo being a good team captain -in this case, demonstratably the better of the two - adds more value to him as a player.
If he can inspire a 10% performance increase on his team with a speech, that's virtually the same as playing with an additional player in the pitch on your team.
For reference on how psychology plays such a huge role on -every- sport, see boxing. And then consider it's effects applied on a 11 man team.
>>69511905
>>Dribbles
LOLOLOLOLOLOL fuck off whoscored.com fag
>>69511845
Messi isnt the coach who manages Argentina you retarded favela nigger. Blame him for choking his penalty but dont try to act like Messi is solely responsible for Argentina playing timid defensive football or Shitguain and Aguero lagging behind Messi while Messi goes through like 5 Chileans on his own with no support
>>69511913
>you'll never see Ronaldo in his 2004-2012 form again
>>69511936
Messi was the team captain and it's his job to be a leader instead of a sulking baby.
>>69511936
learn to read you retard
if he wants to be the best ever on the sport he needs to earn it
he is a great player, but he is no maradona
>>69511927
>because he's a good cheerleader on the sidelines that makes him better than Messi
Lmao Jesus christ the delusion. Argue all you want that Ronaldo is a better motivator but he's still not a better player than the hgh manlet
>>69511966
Ronaldo is legit been better than Messi the last four years.
It is what it is and people are still stuck in 2010-2013.
>>69509914
CR has the same characteristics as Pele.
Good with both feet, good with headers, fast, strong, good at dribbling, and so on.
An all around complete player.
Notice that I'm not making comparisons about who's better or wore, because football is too different nowadays compared to then
>>69511959
>if he wants to be the best ever he needs to earn it
Like how Maradonna earned it by letting Valdano and Burruchaga score in the world cup final?
>>69511966
Are you so disconnected with European football that you're unaware of a team captain's functions during a match?
I mean, you're American, but can you please stop memeing for a second and think ?
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=team+captain%27s+role+in+soccer
>>69509665
>le most complete player meme
Confirmed for paki whose soccer knowledge comes entirely from playing fifa.
>>69511996
>a fucking leaf
Statwise - Messi has produced nearly the same output of goals as Penaldo while playing as Barca's playmaker
Trophywise - Messi won the treble with Barcelona and multiple league titles
There is no metric your autistic retarded mind can come up with that can make Ronaldo better than Messi other than cheerleading.
>>69512005
like he played on napoli who went from shit to winning trophies without his fans have to blame his teammates
>>69512012
>le motivator
You're only embarrassing yourself at this point.
