Enough time has passed since it went invisible that people have begun to forget that it exists. Even if some retards decide to start using it as a downvote again, it wouldn't change much regarding the overall quality of posts in here because holy shit I don't think it's possible for it to go any lower than it is.
So why not make sage visible again? Even if that becomes the case, you should remember that you'd still be able to use nokosage to get an invisible one.
People didn't use it when it was visible, so there is no qualitative difference between having it invisible and people not using it FROM IGNORANCE and having it visible and people not using it FROM IGNORANCE.
You're playing a game of ignorance. He people using it are using it correctly, you just can't see them doing it. They're the same people who did it before, but the thread doesn't immediately explode into accusations and "muh downvote."
This ignorance is bliss.
>>512388
>Quality of posts
Youre looking for reddit, buddy.
>>512430
Since when should we start bending over to accommodate the ignorant.
Everything just spirals down the toilet when you start changing things to suit the ignorant and padding the walls so the kids don't hurt themselves.
It's better to look at the positives, and give the people who want to use it for something good the tools to do so.
You're always going to have people above and below the bar. You can keep lowering the bar all you want but and you're never going to change that. Seriously ask yourself, has the fighting that was caused by visible sage actually disappeared? Or has it just been replaced by other things? Now people are screaming to ban particular images, and all sorts of crazy stuff, and that's just lowering the bar again.
Communities need to focus on their best aspects when making design decisions and rules. Not their worst aspects.
No anon, self-moderation is bad because our mods are soo great and perfect. We don't need that '''downvote'''system amirite? :^)
>>512511
Self-moderation already exists. It's called "filters". I know, you can't broadcast to the world that you personally do not approve of that thread.
I've seen 4chan when it had visible sage. It was never about moderation, it was about letting everyone know you had a stick up your ass about the subject discussed. So often times, in fact, almost always, it was used as a weapon to indiscriminately destroy threads. Before visible sage was removed, I had all sage replies filtered because they never had anything of value.
>>512578
>Self-moderation already exists. It's called "filters".
Ignoring a problem doesn't make it go away anon
>>512578
But that's just your experience with it.
and I'd suspect it's actually because you're the one with the stick up your ass and always looking at correlations between things in the most negative way possible. Just because you always see something accompanying another thing that's bad, doesn't mean the first thing was also bad.
A lot of people only sage because they are making a low quality post.
i.e. Low quality posts aren't caused by sage, but rather the sage is caused by the low quality post. That's a good thing. For starters, you said you filtered them right? You can't do that any more can you?
Then there's also a lot of times where people sage neither due to disliking the thread nor due to low quality posts. I sage all the time in threads on the front page, because what's the point in an active thread being bumped every second? If the thread is so active it's likely the entire board already knows it exists, so why not sage sometimes and let the thread only be bumped every 30 seconds instead? That's the thinking behind the "polite sage" you've probably seen, because that's a courtesy to other threads on the board so they can show up on the front page longer.
The list goes on.
Of course, none of this requires sage to be visible. However, there are other reasons for that as well.
As I was saying above people sage their posts as an admission that it's of low quality right? Well if you see someone saying something kind of dumb and also saging aren't you more likely to think it's a joke? People take each other so seriously today and maybe that's one unforseen side effect of sage becoming invisible.
There's other reasons sage should be visible too but this post has gotten too long already.
>>512511
downsage
>>512430
>People didn't use it when it was visible
I remember it being used on /a/ and it was pretty common to see sage on /jp/.
>>512662
I loved /jp/ for that. There was some statistic that showed about 1/3 of all posts on /jp/ were saged, and nobody was arguing over it, it was just a common thing that everyone did and they all understood it to be polite in most cases.
If you go to other imageboards you can see people saging all the time and there's never any fights over it, and saged posts aren't always "low quality".
This mentality of sage being used by nothing but shitposters to do harm to your thread or to announce that they hate you or something is probably just a misunderstanding coming from people abusing it on fast boards.
Sage is just a tool in the end, it can be good or it can be abused. That's not a good reason to just hide it in my opinion.
>>512602
Neither does giving it attention when that's usually the entire goal of them posting said problem thread.
>>512723
It is a tricky situation. Ignoring it just lets them think it is fine to shitpost as they can get away with it while telling them to fuck off enables them so they do it more.
Though I find if people ignore it, then they will either samefag themselves until someone bites (as it is really impossible to stop someone doing so on larger boards), which then brings in others in to the shitposting pot causing a big messy cycle of people trying to out shitpost themselves. So is no real good situation.
>>512747
Semi-consistent moderation would probably be a good start.
No. Invisible sage is great. People used to birch about others saging threads all the time.
Do you really want to see the "ID Heaven" copypasta plastered all over the place again?
nobody out side /a/ saged anyway
>>512430
Sage should be visible because it tells people their thread is cancer and you posted to bring it one step closer to dropping off the board.
>>513270
>and you posted to bring it one step closer to dropping off the board.
Funny that this is the only valid argument for sage itself being a bad thing, while there's tons of other arguments for it being a good thing.
and even more interesting is the fact that it's _only_ valid in very fast boards or fast threads. For slow boards and slow threads increasing the post count by 1 is almost completely irrelevant since it likely will never hit the bump limit anyway, and your post has given someone else the opportunity to bump the thread.
Yet that's the only way most people look at sage. Strange.
Almost like everyone became brainwashed by some butthurt /b/-tards who decided to turn sage into a site-wide boogieman.
>>512578
>It's called "filters"
A block button isn't fucking self-moderation, it is a pathetic button for little babies who can't accept opinions that aren't their own and don't know how to ignore shit, retard. Ignoring a problem doesn't suddenly make it go away
>>513270
>you posted to bring it one step closer to dropping off the board.
Wrong, you just posted without helping it go back to the top of the board. This misunderstanding is why some people have always thought sage is a downvote.
>>513262
And /tg/.
And a bunch of other boards.
Only the fast and the normie boards didn't understand sage.
As an aside, we need noko to come back. It really helped with filtering out newfags.
>>513470
Basically we should just admit that everything has gone to shit and we probably aren't smart enough to figure out exactly why.
So why not just try completely reverting 4chan's feature set to what it used to be like 10yrs ago. No auto-update, noko, sage, no backlinks, etc..
>>513462
Don't also forget that "announcing sage" is against the rules. I got flagged by a janitor and then banned for announcing it.
>>513462
Yup, I remember having nice long discussions with anons in 1-2 day old threads where everyone would just be saging.
I feel bad for the anons that spent all their time on 4chan never knowing the beauty of sage because someone told them it was a downvote and they believed it.
>>513462
And that's when you use nokosage.
>>513682
I think he meant that in the context of wanting people to see that he's saged. Not the other way around.
>>512747
Not true. Ignoring them lets them know that they won't get (You)'s, which is what they desperately want.
>>513366
And "sage" isn't. If anything, it's even worse because you have to let the world know how tushy bothered you are. It's not about opinions, it's about garbage that people (like you, usually) who think everything they type out is pure gold. Shitposting isn't an opinion.
>>512649
They would be better off not posting if they only want to post low quality garbage. It doesn't need to be serious all the time, but there is never a time for shitposting.
Unless you're from /jp/, the times sage was not used as a downvote was nonexistent. I've only seen it happen once, and even then OP took it as an offense, meaning it didn't have a use as a polite non-bump. Good for you if you do use it for its intended purpose, but you're in the minority. As for the "jokes", they were rarely but jokes. Just people voicing their discontent with a thread, rarely a worthwhile contribution.
>>513911
>Unless you're from /jp/, the times sage was not used as a downvote was nonexistent. I've only seen it happen once, and even then OP took it as an offense, meaning it didn't have a use as a polite non-bump. Good for you if you do use it for its intended purpose, but you're in the minority.
>ONLY BOARDS THAT I FREQUENT EXIST
What is so hard to understand about "other boards used it correctly"?
No one is arguing for visible sage on /v/ and shit. 4chan has different features for each board.
So why not visible sage for slow boards and invisible sage for the fast boards that would only use it to make screaming matches more efficient?
>>512578
>filtering 20 threads every time you visit /tv/
Wew what a good idea lad
>>513498
Hey fuck you leatherman, backlinks and quote preview are godlike additions.
>>512431
>>512511
>>512654
>>512602
>>512883
>>513262
>>513366
Back to /v/ with you morons.
>>512682
That's because you can't abuse it.
It does nothing. You post, you don't bump the thread.
The thread doesn't go backwards, doesn't go forwards. It just stays where its at.
/jp/ would go off on tangents and argue and shit on page 5 for hours, then when they were done someone would bump it back up to the front page. Nobody had to see their autism fight on the front page.
Other threads didn't want to bring a lot of attention to themselves, so they'd just chill on the far back pages with sage.
Some people wanted to give new threads a chance and let them stay on the front page rater than knock everything else off by bumping other threads.
The only "problem" were literal retards who took GREAT OFFENSE that you posted in their thread without bumping it. The joke here being if anybody seriously thought they were trying to kill a thread by using sage, you could sage 300 times and everything you've done would be completely undone by one single post bumping it.
If you really wanted a thread to go away, don't even reply with sage. All you're doing is giving someone else something to reply to while bumping it, so you're effectively keeping the thread alive longer.
Its sad that the fast boards are such retard fuckfests that I had to switch to nokosage otherwise it would derail conversation because they thought it was some kind of downvote.
>>513935
It is a good idea. I typically have like 60% of the threads on the board hidden. You know why? Because 60% of the board is about movies/tv shows I've never seen and don't care about. When I refresh the first page, I want to see thread that I might actually be interested in, not Game of Thrones General 59,000,000 or Doctor Who General or 50 threads about the new Captain America movie. I'm also trying to avoid spoilers (haha, good luck with that right), so I will hide threads about things that I want to see and haven't seen yet. It's not like I'm hiding these threads because I hate them or they offend me, I'm hiding them because they don't interest me and I'm attempting to find a thread that does. That makes it consideraby easier.
>>514004
Fuck off cunt. Invisible sage is one of the few good decisions that moot made. There was always ONE butthurt retard who would go "Countersage" every time someone saged a thread. There were plenty of butthurt morons who thought sage was a downvote and they would flip out about it.
>>514022
So ban the fucking retard that thinks "countersage" is witty and/or a thing.
Nothing of value would be lost with him gone.
>>514022
Wow what a wonderfully insightful argument you've got there.
Even right after sage was removed and everyone was all riled up your comment is about as good of an argument as anyone was ever able to give for sage being a bad thing.
That should have probably been a sign to moot that he made a mistake.
So, going by this thread and all the others I've seen in the past, the ONLY REASON people have anything against visible sage is of the literal boogieman of /v/ermin and /b/tards using it like a downvote and that if someone sages their thread, THEY MUST call that person out for daring to do so like as if everything has a negative connection. That's it. This is the only reason. After seeing people have this argument for years, this is the only reason I have ever seen people give to why there shouldn't be visible sage. This isn't an argument nor does it make any sense.
Why does big fat retarded child on /b/ and /v/ and boards like them matter for all the other boards? Explain this to me. I still can not understand why those boards matter to how the other boards are ran. In-fact, why does it matter if people use it like a fucking downvote? You know what, it is a fucking downvote. It is self-moderation. Sage has no actual fucking defined usage or meaning. It's entire purpose is to not bump threads and visible sage is to tell others you did not bump that thread. What it is depends on the person and the place. If someone uses it to downvote a fucking thread, why the fuck do you care? Man the fuck up and instead of screaming at their post, just move the fuck on and bump your shitty thread with a decent post. People have provided an insane amount of reasons and history has shown it has tons of positive usage. But, because of your irrational fear of your fucking boogieman and people possibly 'abusing' it and having a blue fucking name and heaven ID, you have decided it is best to not have an incredibly useful feature despite the fact those users are actually easy to deal with.
This argument is retarded and it should just be added back to all boards bar /v/, /pol, /b/ and /r9k/.
>>514794
Because moot was a faggot of course.
I wonder if anyone has tried emailing Hiro about this directly. Sage is a big part of 2channel culture as well, and they definitely understand how useful it is (In fact, I've sometimes gone to their english board where foreigners are allowed to post and they sometimes remark that foreigners are rude for not using sage), so I'm sure Hiro would understand all of the benefits of sage.
Maybe we can even get someone to write him an email in Japanese.
Is this thread auto-saged?
>>514838
Yes, obviously. Can't you tell? I'm replying right now, and it isn't bumping! How bizarre. Why would the mods do this?
