Continued from last thread
>>77848896
Christians, report!
Here is a reading list and a series of FAQ's (for atheists, Catholics, Protestants, Jews and Muslims) concerning Orthodoxy, for your pleasure: http://pastebin.com/bN1ujq2x
>>77859636
>Nothing to do with the LOGOS of Greek philosophy.
"Logos" is obviously the term used in these verses in the Septuagint.
The Logos of Greek philosophy isn't anything like Christ, it's more like Hegel's Geist.
Happy Feast of Pentecost Orthobros
>>77859751
Funny, literally everybody who was there disagrees with you.
Hegel's Geist is nothing like the Logos of Heraclitus, either. The Logos is the one thing that exists without flux.
>>77859751
>Christ doesnt matter, he's not the word
this thread is about catholics, dont mix us Christians with them
>>77859426
What I generally mean, pope francis is tolerating this behaviour. He created a situation where this is allowed, where everybody can get a communion if only they will find a liberal priest. The pope is changing doctrine, but he won't say it loudly, he leaving this to liberal bishops.
That god damn pic related cardinal should have been already excommunicate, yet he is still one of the pope closest advisor.
>>77859774
Happy Pentecost!
AMEN
Hope this thread is more harmonic than the last though mostly I guess I'm to blame for that. Off to sleep. Good night phams
>>77859883
Explain this
>>77859994
What's the point when Protestants will continue to destroy Christianity anywhere it can be found as they have been for 499 years?
>>77859875
>Hegel's Geist is nothing like the Logos of Heraclitus
Yes, yes it is.
>We should let ourselves be guided by what is common to all. Yet, although the Logos is common to all, most men live as if each of them had a private intelligence of his own.
-Heraclitus
NO PROTESTANT CAN BEAT ME AND THE FACTS I USE TO EXPOSE THEIR PATHETIC LIES AND DECEIT. ITT AND OTHERS I REFUTED COUNTLESS PROTESTURDS
>>77860131
>HURR LOOK AT THIS QUOTE OUT OF CONTEXT EVEN THOUGH I'VE NEVER ACTUALLY STUDIED PHILOSOPHY IN MY LIFE IT PROVES I'M SMART AND RIGHT
>>77859914
Did you see my response to this in the other thread?
I hardly blieve your headline is what he actually said.
>>77860060
man it need no explanation, catholics don't follow Christ, plain and simple and i dont care about it but dont say you are Christian, you are just catholic
>>77859994
>>77859829
If you have knowledge of a heretical priest report him
There are right next to the pope!
>>77860106
Because
>>77860241
Why do the Early Christians worship
A bunch of fucking words?
>>77859926
But you're the one telling me what I believe when I don't have an opinion on the matter and then acting like that's my opinion. I don't know why you're trying to do that
>>77860339
>being this autistic
>denying the Incarnation this hard
>hating Christ this much
This is what Protestants actually believe.
>>77860279
Can you provide source or just this stupid clickbait headline you saved from /pol/? I thought browsing here made one more concious of this stuff
>>77860222
>HURR LOOK AT THIS QUOTE OUT OF CONTEXT
What context?
>EVEN THOUGH I'VE NEVER ACTUALLY STUDIED PHILOSOPHY IN MY LIFE
No, I've studied it plenty
>>77860288
Explain this
STOP RESPONDING TO THE AUTISTIC AGNOSTIC BRIT HE ISN'T EVEN CATHOLIC
>>77860241
>Catholics don't follow Christ cause I say so
Nope.
>>77860339
you arent the early church, catholics follow mary
Hey everyone, I'm so happy to see that after I woke up the /cg/ is still going!
>Going to meet owner of the company for which I work to drop off last week's receipts.
>He sent me the address of a strip club
>"K, I'll meet you outside"
>Mfw he always asks me in for a "quick drink"
>>77860418
Calls me autistic and can't even understand the context of my argument. Genius! Stupid
>>77860219
Why should I stop loving Jesus...
>>77860538
desu senpai i'm not even sure who i'm calling autistic anymore because this thread is such a shitshow
>>77860240
Those are his quotes
>“We can and we must respect the decision to form a union with a person of the same sex, [and] to seek means under civil law to protect their living together with laws to ensure such protection.”
>“For the most part, the church approaches the [family] issue unhistorically. … People have always lived together in various ways. And today, we in the church tacitly live with the fact that the majority of our young people, including those with close ties to the Catholic church, quite naturally live together. The simple fact is that the environment has changed….The decisive point is not to condemn the way most people actually live together, but to ask, 'How do we cope with failure?'
>There can be same-sex partnerships and they need respect, and even civil law protection. … The new Austrian law on same-sex partnership is very respectful but clearly distinguishes this situation from marriage.
And remember, this is one of the clostest pope advisor.
>>77860451
This happens in the Early Church
>>77860060
http://orthodoxengland.org.uk/nameworship.htm
'Name-worship (in Russian, imiaslavie or imiabozhie, and also known by the Greek translation of onomatodoxy) is a heresy which was condemned by both the Russian Orthodox Church and the Patriarchate of Constantinople at the beginning of the twentieth century. '
http://onimyaslavie.blogspot.com/2012/09/decision-of-russian-synod-1913.html
http://onimyaslavie.blogspot.com/2012/09/patriarch-germanos-on-imyaslavie.html
and all in one convenient place: http://www.johnsanidopoulos.com/2012/10/the-heresy-of-name-worship.html
>>77860605
Shit... Just fuck me up
>>77860645
>i will writte a book about why catholics are ok worshiping mary, it will show them
ha
>>77860553
stop with the ruse
>>77860632
Source?
>>77860683
How are you gonna explain the Nomina sacra Orthoslut
>>77860771
There is no ruse
>>77860793
https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/cardinal-schoenborn-at-synod-church-should-embrace-positive-elements-of-gay
>>77860645
This happens in the Early Church.
>>77860753
That's scholarship. Deal with it if history and scholarship shows your shit to be false
>>77860848
>>77860771
Why are you accusing me of not loving Christ? Why can't you believe that?
>>77860907
Good thing there was a central authority ordained by Jesus Christ Himself.
>>77860857
I'm starting to get the feeling that more Muslims go to heaven than Christians.
>>77860910
yeah everybody is an scholarship now
>>77860632
Translating from Germany
>[He] criticised the idee of homosexual marriage as a "No to life"
>We should see the quality of a homosexual relationship as better as when someone lives out their promiscuity
>However he emphasized the position of the church will not change
>>77860907
This too
>>77860940
stop being a faggot
Also, I skimmed the last bread
Let's not allow ourselves to become hostile towards one another because they practice differently.
As one anon said in an earlier bread, so long as we accept Jesus Christ as our saviour, for he died for our sins and rose from the dead; then we have the MOST important part right.
We all come to God, raised with different beliefs. But if our intentions and hearts are in the right place, then we must remain loving towards one another.
There are religions in this world that are currently slaughtering our fellow Christians. Remember this before letting your tongue loose.
>>77859865
>Islam recognizes itself as the only on the planet
>"Since we were the only religion, we were the first!"
>>77860991
I highly doubt it, though of course there are people who claim to be Christian who won't go to heaven. They don't accept Christ as the Savior of mankind
Also Islam is a jumbled mess
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nNAS0aaViM4
>>77860991
>The Church regards with esteem also the Moslems. They adore the one God, living and subsisting in Himself; merciful and all- powerful, the Creator of heaven and earth,(5) who has spoken to men; they take pains to submit wholeheartedly to even His inscrutable decrees, just as Abraham, with whom the faith of Islam takes pleasure in linking itself, submitted to God. Though they do not acknowledge Jesus as God, they revere Him as a prophet. They also honor Mary, His virgin Mother; at times they even call on her with devotion. In addition, they await the day of judgment when God will render their deserts to all those who have been raised up from the dead. Finally, they value the moral life and worship God especially through prayer, almsgiving and fasting.
-Nostra aetate
>But the plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator. In the first place amongst these there are the Muslims, who, professing to hold the faith of Abraham, along with us adore the one and merciful God, who on the last day will judge mankind.
-Lumen gentium
Those are from Vatican II
Here is a picture of Pope John Paul II (Catholic saint)
>On 6 May 2001 he became the first Catholic pope to enter and pray in a mosque, namely the Umayyad Mosque in Damascus, Syria. Respectfully removing his shoes, he entered the former Byzantine era Christian church dedicated to John the Baptist, who is also revered as a prophet of Islam. He gave a speech including the statement: "For all the times that Muslims and Christians have offended one another, we need to seek forgiveness from the Almighty and to offer each other forgiveness."[92] He kissed the Qur'an in Syria, an act that made him popular among Muslims but that disturbed many Catholics.[186]
Go Orthodox desu
>>77861056
Not very nice desu. You seem pretty full of hate. Why do you think I'm being a faggot?
>>77861119
We will slaughter protesturd for their idiocy
>>77861291
see first post
>>77861291
I fill your ass with my cum by hate fucking you hard
>>77861233
Vatican II teachings on Islam are based on bad orientalist scholarship conflating Sufism with Islam. It has no doctrinal weight anyway.
>>77861371
agnostic get out
>>77860857
>https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/cardinal-schoenborn-at-synod-church-should-embrace-positive-elements-of-gay
See: >>77861039
He doesn't teach heresy. Don't get me wrong I don't like this but it isn't a dogmatic change he just says don't be so hard on them
>>77861310
Welp, you just discredited everything you've said. I thought you were being serious but now you've made it obvious you're just an angry soul role playing as a crusader
>>77861310
>>77861371
Go away, stop pretending to Catholic
>>77861371
Catholics just as classy as Protestants, except instead of threats of hell it's threat of rape
>tfw Orthodox
feelsgoodman
>>77861424
>vatican ii has no doctinal weight
fssp shills OUT
>>77861506
He isn't a real Catholic, just a shitposter
>>77861039
eee what?
Also reminder that guy worked on the newest Apostolic exhortation and I would like to go back to that topic. You see the pope made very unclear statements in this document. In Germany priest like you said earlier are giving "special permission" (read they are giving communion to everybody), in Poland nothing has changed. I call this situation a chaos.
>>77861366
How about I post what I want to post and I don't care what you, a mortal man, thinks about it? Okay? Feel free to stop responding if you have nothing to say
>>77861424
So is it heresy? Because if it's not, then you'd say it's accurate?
I sing thy grace, O Sovereign Lady, and pray to thee to grace my mind. Teach me to step right in the way of Christ’s commandments. Strengthen me to keep awake in song and dispel the dream of despondency. Release me, bound with bonds of sin, O bride of God, by thy prayers. Guard me by night and also by day, and drive away my foes who defeat me. O Bearer of God, the Giver of Life, enliven me who am deadened by passions. O bearer of the unfailing Light, enlighten my blinded soul. O Marvellous Palace of the Master, make me a house of the Divine Spirit. O Mother of the Healer, heal the perennial passions of my soul. Guide me to the path of repentance, for I am tossed in the storm of life. Deliver me from eternal fire, from wicked war and from hell. Expose me guilty as I am of many sins. Renew me, grown old from senseless sins, O most Immaculate One. Present me untouched by all torments, and pray for me to the Lord of all. Grant me to receive the joys of Heaven with all the Saints. O most holy Virgin, hear the voice of thy unprofitable servant. Grant me torrents of tears, O most Pure One, to cleanse my soul from impurity. I offer the groans of my heart to Thee unceasingly. Strive for me, O Sovereign Lady. Accept my service of supplication and offer it to compassionate God. O thou who art above the Angels, raise me above this world’s confusion. O Light-bearing heavenly Tabernacle, direct the grace of the Spirit in me. I raise my hands and lips in thy praise, defiled as they are by impurity, O All-Immaculate One. Deliver me from soul-corrupting evils, and fervently intercede to Christ to Whom is due honour with adoration, now and ever, and to the ages of ages.
Amen.
>>77861506
I see more Catholics judging others and condemning people to hell (with joy even) then I do Protestants
>>77859547
this painting is unsettling, why does the babby have the proportions of a fully grown man?
had the artist not seen a baby before?
>>77861747
That's mainly because there are more of them here.
>>77861567
FSSP was literally founded with the help of Pope John Paul II, dumbass.
Vatican II has no doctrinal weight. Get over it. It's a pastoral council. If you don't believe me, ask John XXIII and Paul VI.
>>77861646
It's not heresy, it's just dumb. Probably accurate as regards Sufism but it's fringe scholarship.
>>77861762
Orthodox icons follow ancient and Medieval style as opposed to Renaissance and realist style.
>>77861940
Russian iconography sometimes follows realist style.
>>77861747
Most of the Catholics here are stormfags that aren't Orthodox because it's not white enough.
>>77861923
>It's not heresy, it's just dumb. Probably accurate as regards Sufism but it's fringe scholarship.
But it's not doctrinal.
So the overt doctrinal positions of Vatican II (such as Protestant baptism being valid, and the idea of "anonymous Christian) are doctrinally wrong (heretical), or not?
>>77861371
You can't think you haven't let Satan in your life somewhere if this is your response to a man you consider a lost sheep.
>>77861466
>>77861506
I used to be Catholic, was baptized as such; confirmed too. But I see what has happened at the highest ranks and I cannot support it. We as a community were too proud to address it, and they continue to stay quiet as the pope n ushers in followers of false prophets.
>I sometimes wonder, is this the mockery that was spoken of in revelations 13?
>The highest order of Catholicism welcoming the very religions and "gods" that will be upon the beast's crowns
>>77861890
Sincerely trying to lead people away from hell is definitely better than threatening to rape somebody or saying they don't love God or Jesus because they don't worship Mary
I have a feeling some of these guys aren't even Catholic though lol
>>77862036
Western style, but not realist style.
Why do you think us Catholics are schismatic while the Council of Florence was a validly called council?
Good afternoon/evening everybody, I hope you've had a good Sunday.
>>77861119
>so long as we accept Jesus Christ as our saviour, for he died for our sins and rose from the dead; then we have the MOST important part right.
No, the sole reason Christianity has those foundations is because the early church fathers fought for that dogma, they devised the cannon that supports it.The reason for your Bible being the way it is, it's cause of them.To deny them, to deny the tradition is to deny Christianity.If it weren't for them, you'd be a Origenist or Manichaeist.In some ways protestants are the modern day Origenists.
>>77862074
Presuming someone's judgement is extremely serious
>>77859914
The Church is being infiltrated. Doesn't mean it has fallen though
>>77860857
>>77861436
To add on this and give a general answer since I now leave the thread: Human elements are part of the church. The orthodox are maybe better off now because cultural marxism doesn't yet run as rampant there but there are heretics, traitors etc. within there as well. What matters is that the church prevails against heresy. In my opinion the catholic church is the one that will since the holy spirit guides it. Sorry I can't discuss objections to this. Another thread maybe
>>77861598
>eee what?
What? He's against gay marriage. He just said gay unions are less bad than coke and gangbang orgies.
>You see the pope made very unclear statements in this document
Yeah
>In Germany priest like you said earlier are giving "special permission"
Not what I said and a harsh misunderstanding.
>read they are giving communion to everybody
No
>in Poland nothing has changed
Same rules for the whole church.
That you emphasize so much on nationalism and try to shame me for being German I will assume you're not too strong in faith either way. I think the answers are there if you choose to look into them. Sorry I can't give a better answer and have to end on this note but most infos you gave so far are just from a superficial "headline" understanding.
This sounds more bitter than I planned. Sorry really tired
>>77862180
http://orthodoxinfo.com/ecumenism/stmark.aspx
>>77862180
Council of Florence was called in the name of "we gotta cover our ass from Muslims, let's appease Latins" not in the name of Christ.
>>77862045
No new doctrine was defined at Vatican II.
Protestant baptisms were already considered valid. Anonymous Christianity is a specific theology theory with no magisterial proclamation either way.
>>77862362
>le mark of ephesus
Patron "Saint" of Butthurst Protestant Converts
>>77862433
>Protestant baptisms were already considered valid
The idea that baptism outside the Church was considered initiation into the Church was certainly something new. It's definitely not how Orthodox feel.
>>77861233
>pope does something bad
Doesn't mean the Catholic Church has apostasized, even if individuals in the church have.
THE GATES OF SATAN SHALL NOT PREVAIL AGAINST IT
>>77862245
Hey straya bro! I am, hope you are as well!
>>77862265
I'm not well read on the old testament, aside from the well known stories. What I do know is that Jesus saved everyone that truly accepts him and strives to live for God.
>>77862271
I never said it wasn't and I try not to do it because I don't know who has accepted Christ into their heart and confessed him to be the Lord. If it's serious then why do so many Catholics do it as well? Also I hope you aren't implying that warning about the consequences of not accepting Christ is worse than threatening to rape someone lol
>>77862342
Just a quick anser and I'm also done. I'm not trying to shame you for being german. My concerns are that there is heresy in Germany and pope is tolerating it. He's also creating very unclear document which can be interpretated in many ways (also heretical way) to satisfy everybody and he made it for purpose.
>>77862623
Orthodox Church accepts other baptisms if they are Trinitarian baptisms. My wife was Lutheran and she didn't need to be baptized again.
>>77862695
>THE GATES OF SATAN SHALL NOT PREVAIL AGAINST IT
They already have
>In April 2012, the election of a young gay man who was living in a registered same-sex partnership to a pastoral council in Vienna was vetoed by the parish priest. After meeting with the couple, Schönborn reinstated him. He later advised in a homily that priests must apply a pastoral approach that is "neither rigorist nor lax" in counselling Catholics who "don't live according to [God's] master plan".[38]
The Orthodox Church is the one they haven't prevailed against.
>>77862832
Her baptism became valid when she was received, through economy; it wasn't valid before then.
>>77863050
We know where the Holy Spirit is but we don't know where the Holy Spirit isn't. To claim a monopoly on the Holy Spirit is heresy.
>Cardinal commits heresy
Since when does that put the whole church in heresy? Christ would have never said that the church would not fall if there was no risk of evil men within our Church
Just because there are less "evil people""in Orthodoxy than Catholicism doesn't validate the EO as the Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church
>>77862942
>>77862942
>one bishop is a cuck
>this means the Church is irrevocably corrupted
>>77862726
Yep, all good m8, glad these threads are a 'thing' again.
>>77862942
It was even a major news here, becouse that priest was from Poland.
>>77863183
To claim that baptism is initiation into the Church, and that the only Church is the Orthodox one, are both dogma
>>77863206
A cardinal who is the protege of the last Pope and the right-hand man of the current one
>>77863206
>>77863265
But that cardinal is one of the closest advisor of current pope. He even worked on the newest Apostolic exhortation.
>>77863475
And edited the Catechism
>>77863237
Well luckily RCIA is a long process, so you have plenty of time to figure out if it's right for you or not.
>>77863475
And Pope Liberius was cucked by the Arians, what's your point?
>>77863625
In old good times those kind of people were excommunicated.
>>77863316
Yea, me too, this board gets pretty dark at times.
Speaking of which, I used to do the meme magic shit posting. But now I'm almost wondering if it's gone too far. With people saying to praise the frog god, etc.
Then again, I'm pretty well convinced the end times are closer than we think. We're one step away from getting rid of cash, and using our right hand at the market. So I could be reading into it too closely.
>Mfw pepe is on the beast's crowns
>>77863831
So maybe there shouldn't be the papal infallibility dogma?
>>77863841
Since Vatican II, the RCC has embraced current year theology
>the Church has gained an ever-deepening understanding of the deposit of faith
>closure to public revelation doesn’t mean there isn’t progress in the understanding of what has been entrusted to the Church.
>In answering these questions, the Church facilitates the development or maturing of doctrines.
>>77863960
That's not what papal infallibility means. I get so tired of explaining this shit.
>>77863742
Yes it is, my mom went through it. Took a year of church going to even "enlist" at my former parish. Then the actual RCIA course was months. Don't remember exactly how many, I was seven at the time.
>>77864063
Yeah I know the diffrence beetwen ex cathedra and "normal statements" still weird.
>>77863742
i'll look into it mate cheers
>>77864063
It did before. The idea that only some official declarations by the Pope are from the chair is not older than the 19th Century.
>>77864237
All it means that under specific circumstances the Pope can speak with the full authority of the leader of the Apostles. This happened two times in 2000 years.
>>77859547
There's no world in which you insisting you're right will ever make it true.
"I say x = y" =/= "x =y"
Enjoy your dogmatic obstinacy and inability to convince anyone who isn't an illogical retard to take what you spew for granted.
>>77864360
I think there were more infallible statements, but the Church doesn't even has a list of them.
Pic related. How many names does this guy have? Osiris, Baal, Moloch, Apollo...I've been looking into this and it's pretty weird that Nimrod seems to be where all other religions come from.
Seminaries were "established" in the Council of Trent.
before that, priests went to university,studied theology, and met a bishop, who on a personal basis ordained them
Also in most seminaries young men are isolated for 7 years from the outside..which it not good
How could we reform this??
>>77864618
The reason "ex cathedra" statements don't exist much is that prior popes didn't know you had to invoke it, as the idea that you did is relatively knew. They considered all official declarations by the Pope to be infallible, but the RCC realized what a headache that was and how it was causing them to hemorrhage members, so they came up with a way to clear the table of all prior Pope declarations.
>>77864670
>come at me bro
>>77864884
>Also in most seminaries young men are isolated for 7 years from the outside
Maybe in an African colony like where you are but I know plenty of seminarians who aren't "isolated."
>>77863896
I've always thought that this MemeMagic/PRAISE KEK stuff is just silly and not beneficial at all; it can also be quite dangerous. If people indulge too much in immature fantasies, no matter how farcical and ridiculous they are, it could potentially lead people away from Christ.
Nobody knows when the end times will be except the Father, but we're told to keep an eye out for the signs of its coming, but of course by the great tribulation we'll know for sure and won't really have to worry about it in the end.
>mfw Pepe is in Revelation
>mfw I have no face
>>77863438
Chrismation is the entrance into the Church
Now when the apostles in Jerusalem heard that Samaria had accepted the word of God, they sent them Peter and John, who went down and prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Spirit, for it had not yet fallen upon any of them; they had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. Then they laid hands on them and they received the Holy Spirit. (Acts 8.14-18
It says they had ONLY been baptized, they had not yet received the Holy Spirit.
>>77865048
I think you're right, btw, have a face.
>Yfw
>>77865418
Yep, that pretty much sums up my face, LOL. Thanks buddy
>>77865048
Remember Ebola-Chan? It was all fun and games until people started taking it seriously and Africans started thinking it was a demon western doctors were worshiping to spread disease.
>>77865048
You know that both are social constructs?
>>77865168
Baptism is like the coronation, chrismation is like the anointing.
>>77864477
Same for you my friend
>>77865752
The difference between us is you follow and preach a dogma, and I do not.
>>77865001
>Maybe in an African colony like where you are
>>77865869
>The difference between us is you follow and preach the truth, and I do not.
Fixed that for you. :^)
>>77866084
see
>>77864477
once more~
>>77865524
Lol, all day.
Btw, browsing catalog and saw this
>>77865259
> It's in Idaho.
I'm not certain what to think at this point concerning Islam. Crusades when meme aside, this simply cannot be allowed.
I'll pray on it, and for the child. Please join me in doing so.
>>77865899
Don't try to deny it.
>>77865593
I knew of Ebola-Chan, but I hadn't heard of that about the Africans thinking that the docktrs had demons with them. That's pretty... that's pretty full on.
>>77865594
Kek is the name of an ancient god of chaos from an ancient civilisation - it could a demon or Moloch for all we know.
>>77866191
>cristiana
get updated, we Macri nao
>>77865869
You're preaching right now actually
>>77866163
>There's no world in which you insisting you're right will ever make it true.
"I say x = y" =/= "x =y"
Enjoy your pseudo-intellectualism and inability to convince anyone who isn't an illogical retard to take what you spew for granted.
I can shitpost too
>>77866294
Ok, that ones bretty gud m8
>>77866243
>>77865594
Pretty much what straya said, the fact it was an actual"deity" is disconcerting.
>>77866172
Absolutely m8, of course I will.
Islam is a touchy subject, and I, like you, don't know what to think at this point about it. May God give us wisdom to come to the right conclusion about it.
>>77866562
Basic logic is pseudo-intellectualism, nigger-kun?
Or are you telling me "I say x = y" *IS* equal to "x = y"? Huh? Huhuh? Huhuhuhuh?
>>77866827
Why are you shitposting in a Christian thread?
>>77866776
Amen.
>>77866827
>I'm not preaching anything I swear!!
>I don't care what anybody believes, honestly!!
>>77866926
Posting basic reasoning is shitposting, shitposter-kun?
>>77866827
>"when I say 'x=y' it's true because I say so but it's not true when you say it because I say so
Great 'logic' there. So all you're saying is "I'm right, you're wrong".
>>77867005
Are you honestly trying to imply people can't give a shit what other worthless groveling niggers think about the world?
Nigger-kun please. Address the logic.
>"I say x = y" =/= "x =y"
>>77867202
>"when I say 'x=y' it's true"
You wanna quote me bro? Or would you rather strawman all night?
>>77867253
Really makes you think
>>77867253
No, I'm implying that you're preaching atheism for no purpose whatsoever and that stating Christianity isn't true will never make it not true. It either is or it isn't
>Logic
Lol, okay. What is the X and Y here? What do they specifically symbolize?
>>77867430
It should if you actually employ "I say it's true therefore it is" reasoning. And most "Christians" do.
Is there any reason to become Christian while you're young?
Is not the best course of action to "sow your wild oats" and live the degenerate life of pleasure and fun until you've settled down with wife and kids and then become a Christian?
Being a young Christian seems to be a waste of a perfectly good youth.
>>77867518
Go away.
>>77867496
I'm a Christian. That's fucking hilarious. "Everyone who disagrees with me must be a gaytheists faggot!"
L A M O.
>>77867621
Nope. Here to stay. Filter me if you care so much leaf.
>>77867518
That's not the reasoning they use at all though
Underage pls just leave, what are you trying to honestly accomplish here and why?
>>77867653
Then what point are you actually making? You replied to the OP and did not explain what you were saying.
>>77867518
Go away lad we are trying to talk about Christianity not get into debates about logic with autistic tripfags.
>>77867709
>That's not the reasoning they use at all though
Yeah? Let's test that then.
Why do you believe in Jesus Christ as the Son of God, and God Himself, Creator of the Universe, and whose interactions with mankind are encapsulated in the Bible?
>>77867653
Lol, what? Did you not read my post correctly? Are you saying you're a Christian or are you saying I called you a Christian?
>>77867817
What I was saying is self-explanatory - >>77864477
all there, black and white, clear as crystal.
>>77867588
Because your rewards will be guaranteed, but tomorrow isn't. So say you're living it up, sewing wild oats, etc and then pass away. You're done for, and I can't recall the verse but the word of the gospel according to Matthew is it's too late once you've passed, you'll be thrown into the pit where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
>>77867588
I had a fun life during my early twenties but I made a ton of bad decisions, some I still pay for. Not really worth it.
>>77867851
The reading comprehension of a slug. I fucking love niggers.
>>77867832
Because it's what my experiences have shown me and other people have had identical experiences
You see, this isn't me saying that "It is true, because I'm saying it's true." My words don't bring God into existence. His existence would
>>77867819
You're existentially bound by the rules of logic - you can't even conceive of illogical states of affairs. You can't converse without the standards of validity and correspondence logic provides you with as a basis for token understanding.
>>77867926
Not really. Who were you directing it at? Are you claiming that all Christians in here believe Christianity simply because?
>>77867832
Ah, you've made your intentions clear.
>>77868075
>Because it's what my experiences have shown me
You can't have hallucinated? Are you immune to hallucinations and dreaming? And what experience are you talking about to begin with?
>>77868119
Him as an Orthodox.Catholics and Orthodox believe in dogma. Look up what the word "dogma" means.
>its a Praceteom baits newfags with his autistic philosophy episode
my least favorite episode desu
>>77868147
Yeah - testing your reasoning for believing something, which is likely either inconsistent or else nonsensical.
Tripfag unironically tipping fedora in /cg/ bread
So much cringe.
>>77868230
>a principle or set of principles laid down by an authority as incontrovertibly true.
Yes. Jesus Christ is that authority. What's the issue?
>>77868286
>fedora
Newfag heroes are the best.
>>77868169
Oh, so everybody I've ever talked to had the same hallucinations I did at different times and places lol. You don't care, you have no intent to listen with open ears, just to preach atheism and respond smugly and condescendingly.
Lol, there's nothing I could say to convince you. Good bye
>>77868285
Kind of like asking me to throw myself from a building to see if God will send angels to save me?
>>77868285
https://youtube.com/watch?v=dsbj7EN1Uzs
This will take you through Genesis and explain that not only is it correct, the scientific method is from the bible. I encourage you to watch if you haven't.
>>77868434
I don't object to God's Word being incontrovertibly true in the least. I want to know, however, how you *know* what God's Word is?
>>77867933
Well merely saying because the chances of Christianity as a religion and final destination of your soul being correct is pretty small, I'd say, but the values and traditions are perfect for a good family life. Therefor "wasting" your youth in it is... well wasteful when clearly the logical man would say it is suited best for family life.
Although this is coming from a non-believer so I'd imagine my view is somewhat skewed.
>>77867975
That is sad but you can't say that this happens to the majority of people.
>>77868451
It's entirely possible you're a liar, they're liars, or indeed that you all completely misinterpretaed your "experiences", just like frantic women who insist they saw ghosts of their dead loved ones or signs in crystal balls or mundane occurences that happen in their lives.
Ja-ja-ja-ja ne!
>>77868519
Not at all. I want to know why you think what you believe is (incontrovertibly) right, if you so do. And if you hold to any dogma, you do.
>>77868563
It doesn't matter if there's correspondent truths. That's not what I'm asking of you. I want to know how you *KNOW* what you think is God's Word *IS* God's Word.
>>77868450
>Christian
>Humefag
>>77868706
Of course, just about anything is technically "possible". Should I reject what my experience has shown me to believe to be true because there's a possibility it's not true? It's possible you're wrong about your opinions on God, right? So are you going to believe in God now because there's a possibility that you're wrong?
>>77868961
>Humefag
I'm a Humefag? I quote his skepticism to dunk empiricists. I'm a Christian so his troubles with inductive reasoning don't bother me like they bother gaytheists.
>>77868619
I get what you mean, and yea, I did the same. But I also know former friends that couldn't break addictions they picked up, from mental to chemical. As well as disease, and general poor health.
Being Christian doesn't mean you can't have any fun, bro. I have drinks with friends, and enjoy life as much as possible. Sometimes I sin, but I feel a heavy weight in my chest when I do, it's quite uplifting to repent
>>77868564
I never said I did, I said I know that Jesus is my saviour.
>>77868564
Because Jesus Christ founded a Church on Earth to interpret the Word.
>>77869001
You don't have to reject it. But you can't pretend it's necessarily true. Which means what you believe isn't necessarily true. Which means you can't hold to a dogma, since dogma contends that something is necessarily (incontrovertibly) true.
>So are you going to believe in God now because there's a possibility that you're wrong?
I *already* believe in God. I'm a fucking Christian you retard.
>>77867653
>>77868786
I can't speak on dogma, I don't even have a church. Just me and my bible, with the teachings of my childhood. Basically, faith.
>>77869111
>I never said I did, I said I know that Jesus is my saviour.
Great. I have no beef with you then. I do certainly have a beef with Cucklics and Orthocucks though, since they *DO* believe in dogma.
>>77869113
He did? How do you know?
>>77869223
That's fine. No beef.
>>77869284
Ah, you come off like some fedora tippers that have shat up our threads today.
Speaking of which, we're at about 16hrs of continuous threads :) It's a great day!
>>77869209
Oh, then why are you attacking Christians and filled with so much anger and hate? Obviously those "hallucinations" you accuse me of having had to do with Christ's existence, not a specific dogma. I don't follow any specific one. I think they all could be wrong on certain things
If you're a Christian as you claim why are you spending your time doing this? (Just curious)
>>77869502
That's because people's gut reaction to being disagreed with on a subject they care about is to lump the disagree'er in with the most common opposition they encounter. Which is fucking stupid.
>>77869612
You have to admit your posts look edgy af tbqhwyf.
>>77868861
I know because if the universe has a beginning is has to have a beginner. I know Christianity is right because it doesn't get anything wrong. I know because there is evidence. I sought the answer and it was given to me.
>>77869313
I trust he did based on the evidence of his life and the history of Christianity
>>77869550
"Anger and hate"? What the fuck are you smoking, Jamal? Is your nigger blood boiling at all the insults? Are you having trouble maintaining "din do nuffin'" status? Get with the bants you faggot.
>Obviously those "hallucinations" you accuse me of having had to do with Christ's existence
Or else they have nothing whatsoever to do with Christ, and you're just implicating Him out of your own imagination.
>I think they all could be wrong on certain things
Good - they *CAN* be.
>If you're a Christian as you claim why are you spending your time doing this?
Because I want people - *especially* people who agree with me on the most fundamentally important proposition in the world - to be logical and intellectually honest and consistent in their own thoughts.
>>77869762
Good. The more people who are exposed to shit they don't wanna hear, the quicker they'll get thicker skin and not be a dick-munching faggot-fucker.
Scriptures say the enemy is the father of lies then goes on to talk in riddles and secrets.
The truth is written between the lines of all theologies. This is why we struggle with the idea "which religion is correct? How can a loving god pick a side and destroy the rest when good people can be found under all faiths"
I simply believe in a just and fair god of love and because he is just and fair, that is Enough in this confusing world.
GOD WILL SUCK MY GLORIOUS COCK
>>77869887
No, they DID have to do with Christ's existence you fucking retard, whether he was there or not the situation had to do directly with him and influenced my opinion of his existence. The hallucinations had no effect on me believing in a specific dogma, only believing in God
Chill out you fucking dipshit
>>77869868
The "beginner" could be a rock with special properties. All you have to do to describe a first cause is give it the property of having been the first cause.
>I know Christianity is right because it doesn't get anything wrong
Neither does logic. That doesn't mean logic "is right", it just means it's a way of processing information.
>I know because there is evidence
Really? Throw some down for us.
>I sought the answer and it was given to me
Confirm this for us - given by whom, under what circumstances, and how do you know it was trustworthy?
>>77869870
So you don't know. You simply have faith. Great! Welcome to not-Catholicism/Orthodoxy!
>>77870203
>No, they DID have to do with Christ's existence
That's what the crazy lady who saw a shadow and thought it was the ghost of her dead daughter would say too. It wouldn't make it true~
>>77870363
K, you obviously didn't read my post or you're purposefully lying lol
>>77870281
How do you know then? What's wrong with faith?
>>77870525
I don't know! That's the point! Nothing wrong with faith at all.
>>77869950
No u.
>>77869982
Agreed, but I do believe that followers of false prophets and religions are a menace.
>>77869982
riddle and secrets are not lies
every father has secrets for the youngest child
>>77870514
Fucking brilliant minds like you deserve a special intellectual designation m8. The reading comprehension and articulating ability of the Mightiest Nig.
>>77870237
I gave you a video early for some evidence. There is evidence in the bible. I can't give you the revelation, you have to do it for yourself.
I don't want anyone to suffer for their errors, but all I can do is try to put you on the path. You have to start the relationship of your own free will and it doesn't sound like you are very open to it. Until you are open to it you can't be helped.
>>77870670
There is correspondence. Circumstantial correlation does not imply necessary truth to a claim.
I'd question anything you'd ever call "revelation". False prophets have talked about "revelation" for millennia.
I'm already a Christian, dipshit-san~
I'm questioning *your* dumbfuckery. Which results in you simply insisting you're right without actual proof, and without a semblance of humility to your claims.
>>77870655
That's cool I guess. Still doesn't change the fact that you completely ignored parts of my post so you could keep insulting me. Like I said, purposefully lying or being dishonest
>>77870885
>K, you obviously didn't read my post or you're purposefully lying lol
>worth addressing
KEEP GOING GIGGA-NIGGA!
>>77870553
But Catholics/Orthodox have faith as well.
>>77871218
Yes they do! But they *ALSO* have *DOGMA*. Which is a *PROBLEM*!
>>77871048
Ummm, okay, I will. Things aren't worth addressing when they change the context or meaning of something? So you did read and you're just lying like I said, that's cool I guess. You also seem to know more about the situation surrounding my experience and its relativity to Jesus. Truly amazing
(You)
How do Orthodox deal with the fact that that the Orthodox Church has basically no claim to being catholic? It seems like an ethnic religion for Greeks, Slavs, and a couple Arab communities. Didn't Jesus say to go forth and make disciples of all nations? Both Roman Catholics and Protestants have spread in large numbers throughout the world. If the Eastern Orthodox Church is indeed the one true church, why does it seem like it's history is nothing but getting contained to a certain geographical area. Why would God hide the lamp that is is church under a bowl?
>>77871303
Is Christ your savior relatively speaking, or he is absolutely your savior? If you answer the latter, you have dogma.
>>77871467
Orthodox just hasn't spread as much because no colonial powers were Orthodox.
We still evangelize
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/04/15/greek-orthodox-church-latin-america_n_7065630.html
>Thousands of Orthodox Christians attended Holy Week services in Greek Orthodox churches in Central and South America this year — but most were not of Greek descent.
>Of its 550,000 members, only 5,000 are Greek, according to Maxwell Dotson, executive director of One World One Community, a non-profit co-founded by Metropolitan Athenagoras. The vast majority are natives of that region who are seeking a spiritual identity within the transplanted Greek church.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antiochian_Orthodox_Christian_Archdiocese_of_North_America
>Many conservative former Anglicans have turned to the archdiocese as a jurisdiction, some joining and leading Western Rite parishes with liturgy more familiar to Western Christians. The current mission of the Antiochian Orthodox Christian Archdiocese of North America is to "bring Orthodoxy to America" and has a very active Department on Mission and Evangelism which was chaired by Fr. Peter Gillquist who led the mass conversion of the Evangelical Orthodox Church to Eastern Orthodoxy. Gullquist retired in December 2011 and died in July 2012. Fr. Michael Keiser was named as his successor as head of the department.[4] The archdiocese broadcasts Ancient Faith Radio, an Internet-based radio station with content themed around Orthodox Christianity.
>As a result of its evangelism and missionary work, the Antiochian Archdiocese saw significant growth between the mid-1960s and 2012. The archdiocese had only 65 parishes across the United States in the mid-1960s and by 2011 this number had increased to 249 parishes.[5]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yeRXbLAIPcU
>>77871524
If Christ, Christ is my savior. If not Christ, then Christ could not be my savior, since there would be no Christ. My faith is in the proposition that Christ is, rather than is not. Not as an absolute, since I can't know Christ *is* absolutely as it stands.
>>77871632
Also, we don't convert as past as newer Protestant denominations that had no colonial power backing them, because conversion to Orthodox takes a lot longer and lot more effort.
>>77871378
It's more that you completely missed what was being addressed in our conversation because you were preoccupied with fighting a strawman, and I've since run out of patience trying to talk with you and am instead mocking you.
N i g g e r ~
>>77871703
So you're agnostic?
>>77871805
Oh, right on bro
Have fun with that...
>>77871303
Except that dogma is put in place Christ.
>>77871820
Not at all. I believe in Christ. Believing in something does not make that something necessarily true. I believe in atoms - I don't know that there are atoms. Would you imply you or I am thus agnostic toward atoms?
>>77871905
Yeah? How do you know that?
>>77871632
Russia was somewhat of a colonial power, given the fact that it reached as far as California. The fact that Russia took all of Siberia and the Fear East shows that it had some success in colonialism.
The point still stands. In those examples, the number of Orthodox amounts to 0.5% or less of the population in both regions mentioned. Shouldn't Christ's church be like a city upon a hill, shining for all the world to see?
Do not refer to protestants as one group, evangelical and mainline are more discrete in many aspects than Greek Orthodox and Roman Catholic
>>77871947
We'll at this point it just becomes circular reasoning. It's not really a refutation of dogma. People have to have faith that dogma is true btw. Just like any fact that is declared true, people have to believe it.
>>77872001
>The fact that Russia took all of Siberia and the Fear East shows that it had some success in colonialism.
And Alaska went on to become a major foothold of Orthodoxy
> the number of Orthodox amounts to 0.5% or less of the population in both regions mentioned. Shouldn't Christ's church be like a city upon a hill, shining for all the world to see?
Orthodoxy has to gain wider establishment by converting already Christian populations to Orthodoxy, it's a bit trickier. People of Western European or Hispanic descent come from races already converted to heretical brands, by the sword in the Hispanic case. We don't convert by the sword, and converting already Christian peoples is not like converting pagans, ESPECIALLY when you don't have a powerful state footing the bill, as Catholics and Protestants effectively had for so long
>>77872560
Orthodox hate the Republican Party because it's pro Israel and pro Saudi Arabia. Although we can make exceptions
>>77872591
>We'll at this point it just becomes circular reasoning
YES! I'm glad you recognize that. And circular reasoning *doesn't fly*. I think if something relies on circular reasoning (which dogma does) it should be rejected, since it's illogical. We don't accept circular reasoning in any other facet of our lives - it shouldn't be accepted just because its employed in defense of something someone likes.
If something actuall *was* "incontrovertibly true", then you would need no faith to believe it. You don't need faith to believe the proposition "there are thoughts" - it is necessarily and incontrovertibly true. But Cucklic/Orthodox dogma does not fill that logical niche of being a priori necessarily true.
>>77872698
>ESPECIALLY when you don't have a powerful state footing the bill, as Catholics and Protestants effectively had for so long
And don't forget these two always had state backers, whereas the state turned against the Orthodox in pretty much every country they've been in.
>>77872560
>Republicans in Anglican church comfortably in the lead against Democrats
>The Episcopal Church is ultra liberal with women bishops and gay marriages
>>77872983
>>77872876
Republicans are just business shills, they care about support merchants and bankers more than any social issues.
If God wants all men to be saved (1 Timothy 2:4) then why did he harden Pharaoh's heart? Did God not malevolently shorten Pharaoh's time of grace? Why didn't he just convert Pharaoh like he did with Saul/Paul? I'm sure it would have been easy for God but instead he screwed Pharaoh over in his anger. Not trying to sound snooty or anything so please respond. I've asked this before but never got a clear answer.
>>77873296
He wanted to make sure the Jews knew full and well God saved them, not Pharaoh becoming a Care Bear.
>>77873296
The pharaoh wasn't humble enough to put himself below God. Which was to his eternal detriment - God was above him whether he chose to accept it or not.
>>77872698
>And Alaska went on to become a major foothold of Orthodoxy
5% of the population, wouldn't call it a major foothold
>ESPECIALLY when you don't have a powerful state footing the bill, as Catholics and Protestants effectively had for so long
Orthodoxy had the Eastern Roman Empire and then Imperial Russia, maybe not the most powerful states but powerful indeed. The state only turned against Orthodoxy for a relatively short amount of time in Eastern Europe. Nowadays, Putin and the Russian Orthodox Church are great buddies and the ROC can effectively count on Russia's help backing it up. I mean, just look at Pentecostalism, has no central leadership and is spreading like wildfire. Why can't Orthodoxy boast any similar conversion rates?
>>77872895
I think dogma is more the assertion that "we believe this is absolutely true", not that it's irrefutable fact. Of course the Church says that the teachings are fact but that isn't discounting reason. Reasonable faith is what the Church teaches.
>>77873484
>5% of the population, wouldn't call it a major foothold
It is considering it was sold before the major immigration of Protestants and Catholics to the region
>>77873484
>Why can't Orthodoxy boast any similar conversion rates?
Converting is a lot harder.
>>77873606
You can believe something is absolutely true (you'll either be right or wrong) - you can't believe absolutely that something is absolutely true except those things which are necessarily, a prior true, such as tautologies. Epistemology doesn't let you.
But no; dogma means "incontrovertible". Something only held on faith is not incontrovertibly true - it can be wrong and people can bring up (rightfully) that it indeed could be wrong, which immediately nullifies that proposition as being incontrovertible.
>>77871922
>Not at all
Agnostic means you don't believe you can know whether or not God exists.
>Would you imply you or I am thus agnostic toward atoms?
Yes.
>>77873711
>>77873780
>It is considering it was sold before the major immigration of Protestants and Catholics to the region
Fair enough given the number of Orthodox elsewhere in the Western world
>Converting is a lot harder.
It's true that Protestants accept quick conversions, but people wanting to join the RCC have to go through RCIA classes and most people aren't baptized until around Easter, so it's a commitment as well.
>>77874357
Wrong. I don't maintain I can't know or that it can't be known. I simply do not know, and do not currently know of a way to know. Which is not agnosticism. I also *believe* in God. I have *belief* in Him - agnosticism is characterized by a lack of belief (which is only possible toward propositions with certain relational characteristics).
>>77874728
Dogma can be known, through direct spiritual experience.
Your epistemology is crypto-solipsism, and totally incompatible with Christianity.
>>77875132
>through direct spiritual experience
Instantiate how that works for me. So you receive "a direct spiritual experience" how do you differentiate that from some other experience, exactly?
>totally incompatible with Christianity
Not even in the slightest. My God calls for my faith and belief (pistis). He has it.
>>77875310
>So you receive "a direct spiritual experience" how do you differentiate that from some other experience, exactly?
Faculties of the spirit. Just like the flesh has senses, so does the spirit. Sin impairs the spiritual faculty.
>Not even in the slightest.
Galatians 4:8-9
>>77875536
Ephesians 1:17
Colossians 2:2
>>77875536
So can you instantiate that happening? Or are you just going to sit there and yack about how it does with no way to demonstrate it?
Try quoting my God and not Paul. Good luck.
>So can you instantiate that happening? Or are you just going to sit there and yack about how it does with no way to demonstrate it?
You can't demonstrate with senses, unless you get like Moses when he had to wear a veil. You can read about the experience though, we have continuous records of it in the Church.
>>77875733
>Try quoting my God and not Paul.
Paul does speak for God, so effectively the same thing.
>>77876105
>You can't demonstrate with senses
So you can't verify it. You can only insist it occurs, or that it has occurred at some point, with no way to instantiate that. So a baseless assumption.
>Paul does speak for God
Yet another baseless assumption.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pauline_Christianity
/pol/ I need to know. Are we already going through the 3 and a half year Tribulation of the end?
I honestly can't fathom things being much worse than they've been for a whole 3 and a half years.
>So you can't verify it.
Not carnally.
>>77876260
>Yet another baseless assumption.
Nothing baseless about it. God's Church taught as much, and Christ said the gates of hell would not prevail over it
>>77861923
Sedevacantism. Where things I don't like are heresy and having a blog gives me authority over popes, bishops, and ecumenical councils
>>77876105
Paul wasn't even an apostle. He had epilepsy. The man was possessed by evil spirits! He led Christianity astray. In Revelations Jesus actually commends one of the Churchs for turning a false apostle away. That same Church
rejected Paul and his teachings!
>>77876436
So verify it for me "spiritually". C'mon.
Cucklic priests saying Paul's word is equivalent to God's Word does not make it so. Baseless.
>>77863475
You're thinking like a protestant/donatist. He's a bishop because he received valid holy orders. He can literally be Ted Bundy crossed with Karl Marx and still be a valid bishop, unless excommunicated/defrocked by the Pope
>>77876378
i don't think this is even the beginning
>>77876893
I really hope you're wrong. I've been struggling hard enough to try and push through in my current life. If it's not even the beginning I'm seriously questioning if it'd be better to just off myself when things start to truly hit the fan.
>>77876766
>So verify it for me "spiritually". C'mon.
I can't, not unless you actually start practicing things to perfect your spiritual faculties, such as days devoted to asceticism and significant time devoted to asking God for forgiveness and mercy.
>Cucklic priests saying Paul's word is equivalent to God's Word does not make it so. Baseless.
The Church as a whole says it, not just the clerics. The clergy can't push anything if the laity refuses it, see the Council of Florence.
>>77877543
>not unless you actually start practicing things to perfect your spiritual faculties
Can you verify "spiritual faculties" even existing for us?
>The Church as a whole says it
Yeah, because that *TOTALLY* makes it any less of a fallacy.
http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/appeal-to-tradition.html
>>77877348
I don't know, but we're getting nearer each day definitely
May God have mercy. God bless
>>77877843
>Can you verify "spiritual faculties" even existing for us?
Carnally? No. You need the faculty to see them, just like you can't really prove atoms without instruments.
>Yeah, because that *TOTALLY* makes it any less of a fallacy.
Christ said the gates of hell would not prevail against his Church.
>>77878171
So you can't verify it at all. You can only insist to other people it exists. What amazing evangelism you're engaging in - "trust me it's true lol - it just is you just gotta trust me ;)".
Snakes and liars do the very same thing. Astrologists and psychoanalysts.
What did He mean by "His church"? You don't know - you just make up a definition and insist "no, it's right - it just is, trust me ;)"
Liars and snakes.
>>77878530
>So you can't verify it at all.
No, but you can. Try practicing the Jesus Prayer and fasting (but not as the Pharisees do), and it will cultivate your faculty. You will start to know God.
>What did He mean by "His church"?
Ecclesia
>>77878957
>no, but you can
You can't verify that I can. You can only say that I can, which does not establish that I can. Baseless assertion.
Yes - church means church. Identity statements are true. But saying "church means church" doesn't actually state what "church" is denoting as a linguistic token.
>>77879279
>You can't verify that I can
You can, because you have a spirit.
>Yes - church means church.
It means an assembly of people. Christ's Church is the assembly of Christ's people..
>>77879639
You can't verify I have a spirit. Can you do anything other than baselessly assert things?
So I'm part of Christ's church then, since I'm a person of Christ - a Christian. But if that's the case
>The Church as a whole says it
is a false statement. Since I don't say it, and for the church as a whole to say it, no single part of it could not say it. Given parts of it do not say it, the church *as a whole* doesn't say it. Only parts do.
Wanna keep going?
>>77879955
>You can't verify I have a spirit.
I can verify God who says you do.
>So I'm part of Christ's church then, since I'm a person of Christ - a Christian.
You aren't part of his assembly though.
Praise Christ and the holy spirit
Thanks for all your hard work Jesus, I couldn't've done it without you.
>>77880112
>I can verify God who says you do
No, you can only assert that He does.
>You aren't part of his assembly though
You aren't part of His assembly though.
>>77867588
I was saved in my early twenties
>>77872560
Baptist and Conservative:)
>>77880196
Amen
>>77880392
Same
>>77880220
>No, you can only assert that He does.
No, he does, since I experience him through Christ and Christ said so.
>You aren't part of His assembly though.
I was initiated into the assembly which he founded. He placed his Apostles in charge, who set up leaders in their stead. Each territory is overseen by an elder who cares for the flock of that territory.
>>77880732
I don't believe you experience Him through Christ. I believe you're more likely simply intentionally self-delusional. And you can't establish to anyone else that such isn't the case.
>He placed his Apostles in charge
No, He didn't. There were people who were responsible for initially spreading His Gospel, but they weren't "in charge". Only God is in charge. Only God. No one else. Until the end of time itself.
>>77880904
>I don't believe you experience Him through Christ.
I don't ask you to. But you can experience him through Christ and know him directly yourself. You don't have to even believe I exist to do this.
>but they weren't "in charge"
He gave them authority to bind and loose, and said whatever sins they did not forgive, God would not forgive. I'd say that's authority.
>>77880904
So just curious, what parts of Christianity do you believe in?
>>77862367
Every single eastern Bishop except one and the emporer agreed to it, it was binding. It was rejected when a group of monks raised opposition to it. This is unheard of, the council that ended in the Oriental Orthodox schism wasn't considered non-binding because they left and neither should Florence.
>>77881080
Or I can't, and you're lying either intentionally or not.
Every Christian can bind and loose. And saying "whatever sins they did not forgive, God would not forgive" doesn't convey much when Christians are *commanded* to forgive. No authority.
>>77881104
Gospels.
>>77881312
Bishops don't have the authority to dogmatize heresy, sorry.
Mount Athos is more the Orthodox Vatican than the Phanar is.
>>77881438
>Or I can't, and you're lying either intentionally or not.
That's up to you to find out
>Every Christian can bind and loose
Nope, you don't have the authority to bind someone in heaven.
>God would not forgive" doesn't convey much when Christians are *commanded* to forgive.
You have to actually confess the sin you need to be forgiven for and ask for it for them to forgive it.
>>77881445
Yet you don't believe that people are baptized in the Holy Spirit?
Can you name something specifically from the Gospels that you believe in?
>>77881651
Peter is petro
The church is called Petra
>>77872876
That's a blatant falsehood. Most Orthodox are immigrants and vote Democrat for their benefit. They only care about themselves and their nationalist enclaves disguised as churches. Saying they would vote for a party that advocates abortion over a party that supports Israel isn't flattering
>>77881721
This is a quibble on the Greek, Peter is petro because petro is masculine case. The Aramaic Gospels have the same word.
>>77881651
Or it's up to you to stop lying about, since lying is a sin and you'll be judged for it ;)
The verse never mentions "someone". The verse references "things". People aren't things in Christian meta-ethics. No person has ever or will ever bind people.
Other people's forgiveness is irrelevant - God's forgiveness is all that matters.
Matthew 6:14-15
1 John 1:9
Mark 11:25
Matthew 26:28
>>77880904
This is totally false, large portions of the Apostolic writings in the new testament were them writing, governing, and reprimanding churches when needed.
>>77881669
>Yet you don't believe that people are baptized in the Holy Spirit?
Where do I ever imply that?
John 3:16
>>77881766
Orthodox are the wealthiest Christians in America per capita, they don't vote Democrat for personal benefit
>>77881960
They can act like they're in charge all they want. I let my six year old cousin do that occasionally too.
>>77881964
You're saying that other guy is lying about having the Holy Spirit aren't you? Why do you think that?
>>77881479
The Bishops of a church gathered in a council is considered infallible and binding to the whole church. The council was a done deal, rejecting it is heresy just like the Monophysites.
>>77881915
>The verse references "things".
What "thing" on earth exists in heaven?
>>77881915
>Other people's forgiveness is irrelevant - God's forgiveness is all that matters.
Except, as Christ said, God will not forgive you if they don't.
>>77882070
I'm saying he could be.
>>77882042
Wow you're argument is unassailable
>>77882112
Ask God.
http://biblehub.com/greek/osa_3745.htm
>>77882211
...ok
But why would he do that? And why are you focused on that? You could be lying about being a Christian
I was brought up Pentecostal, and I love the spiritualism in my denomination. Like it is very exciting.
But I have a tremendous respect and interest in Catholicism. I might even convert, but the Pope has said/done some things that would make me want to stay far away. Someone talk to me lol
>>77882142
God will not forgive *them* if they don't forgive me.
It's irrelevant - I find the verse absolutely inane. There's no authority except the authority to go to hell and take someone with you.
>>77882393
Why wouldn't he? He wants other people to come to his view. That's a reason to lie right there - lying can facilitate deception that manipulates people to your ends.
Yes absolutely I could be. I'm not, but you don't know that.
>>77882093
>The Bishops of a church gathered in a council is considered infallible and binding to the whole church.
So how about the Council of Ariminum?
>>77882405
Popes come and go, there have been far worse than Francis. You should convert for the gospel and spiritual truths within that cannot be changed by a pope. I converted from Mormonism two years ago. Find you a good parish that fits your spirituality, traditionalist/charismatic/novus Ordo/Eastern whichever suits you. Catholics are dramatically more spiritually and intellectually diverse than the Orthodox communion
>>77882093
Miaphysites aren't heretics, by the way.
http://pastebin.com/ZSTu1ZvK
The difference between Oriental and Eastern Orthodox is purely a semantic distinction, and does not concern the substance of dogma. This is made clear by the Fifth Ecumenical Council, which issued an anathema against the criticisms directed against Saint Cyril of Alexandria's Twelve Anathemas (in chapter 3 of the work, Saint Cyril of Alexandria uses the term "natural union"--"union" here being "henosin", literally " one"--to describe Christ's Nature: "If anyone shall after the [hypostatic] union divide the hypostases in the one Christ, joining them by that connection alone, which happens according to worthiness, or even authority and power, and not rather by a coming together (συνόδῳ), which is made by natural union (ἕνωσιν φυσιkὴν): let him be anathema."). This means that the mia physis formula was approved. The Fifth Ecumenical Council was not uncontroversial, however (since it made the Oriental Orthodox Christology valid), Pope Vigilius refused to attend on the grounds that it conflicted with the Council of Chalcedon, and after it proceeded without him, the Pope refused to accept its conclusions, and excommunicated Patriarch Menas, the Pope protesting that he spoke from Peter's Chair, which was the final authority in all matters; Pope Vigilius was then excommunicated by Patriarch Menas, and imprisoned by Emperor Justinian I, but the
cont
>>77882805
Pope eventually recanted and was reinstated. If you want to understand the distinction between miaphysitism (which the Oriental Orthodox subscribe to) and monophysitism (which both Eastern and Oriental agree is heretical), look as the differences in the prefixes: "mono" means "alone", "solitary", it's used in Luke 4:4 and 4:8. "Mia" is the feminine form of "heis", which just the adjective for "one" ("hen" when used as a noun); see John 17:21 for an example of its use. Not only is this formula acceptable, it is heresy to say it is not, and not just because of the Fifth Ecumenical Council (which merely witnessed dogma, it did not create it), but because henosis describes the communion between us and Christ: if we say Christ's humanity does not have henosis with his divinity, then that says his Body and Blood do not have communion with his divinity, and to say such a thing seriously impacts theology of communion, and is ultimately Nestorian. Likewise it is absolutely heretical to suggest that it is invalid to describe Christ as having two natures, insofar as the phrase "two natures" is used strictly and solely to mean that Christ is both fully human and fully divine and that his humanity and divinity are not confused or "mixed", like with a demigod.
>>77882620
It was a synod not a council and it was declared heretical by the proceeding councils. The only way the church can undo a council is to hold another. For instance if the council of Trent were to be declared heretical, Vatican 1 and Vatican 2 which came afterwards would also have to be declared heretical.
>>77882500
>God will not forgive *them* if they don't forgive me.
Yes, if you sin against them personally. But I'm talking about sin in general, see John 20:23
>>77882713
It means a lot to hear that, actually. I'm normally not so serious on here but I tend to get that way when talking about my faith. Bless ya tho for withstanding the LDS, I know that they are good people but it has given my two best friends a sour taste in their mouth about Christ. Like, one was even a missionary and became like the zoning leader. Pray for them if you want.
So, here is something that I am not for sure if it is still something. lol Do you guys pray to saints?
>>77882956
No, period. 1 John 1:9 would not be true if our sins *WOULDN'T* be forgiven if we confessed them. It would be a *LIE*.
The apostles had no special powers at all. It is all God.
>>77883216
Catholics and Orthodox are often believed to pray to saints but we have never in history done so. We pray 'through' the saints and ask them to intercede on our behalf. It's exactly like if you asked a friend to pray for you, except saints are closer to God as they are in heaven.
>>77883270
>1 John 1:9
Are you now going to acknowledge writings outside the Gospels as an authority here?
>The apostles had no special powers at all. It is all God.
They have authority as God's agents, like Moses did.
>>77883270
No denomination at all believes the apostles or their successors have special powers, they act in place of God who confers grace through sacraments established by Christ himself.
>>77883536
Asking a friend to pray for you is technically praying to the friend. To pray ("prithee") and plead ("please") are synonymous. If you ask someone for anything, you are praying to them.
>>77883632
>Are you now going to acknowledge writings outside the Gospels as an authority here?
Nope - I don't have to. Since you *DO* accept them, I can bring them up to criticize *your* position, which is what I'm doing.
No they don't. You insist they do, but can't establish that as a truth. You rely on specific interpretations of a very few number of verses as backup. If you're not granted those specific interpretations, it doesn't pan out like you want it to.
>>77883748
God needs no one "acting in His place". We're commanded to evangelize, and so we do. No one is God's substitute.
>>77883924
By that logic God should do the evangelizing himself, you don't need to go in his place.
>>77884040
We do it because God commands us to. Not because He needs us to. You miss-follow the logic employed.
>>77883879
>Nope - I don't have to. Since you *DO* accept them, I can bring them up to criticize *your* position, which is what I'm doing.
But this verse doesn't impact my position at all. In Orthodoxy, we don't ask the priest for forgiveness, we kneel and ask God for forgiveness, the priest stands next to us. This verse just illustrates the importance of confession.
>You insist they do,
Because Christ explicitly says they have the keys to the kingdom of heaven and can bind people on earth so they will be bound on heaven, which is an authority that laypeople don't have. He also says that what they do not forgive will not be forgiven by God (and they have to know about a sin to forgive it), that is an authority laypeople don't have.
>>77884106
We are also commanded to 'do this in remembrance of me' which is the sacrament of mass in which the priest acts in the person of Christ
Fresh bread
>>77884390
>>77884390
>>77884390
>>77884140
>But this verse doesn't impact my position at all
Let me show you why it's a problem for what you've been saying. You said
>Except, as Christ said, God will not forgive you if they don't
In response to my saying
>Other people's forgiveness is irrelevant - God's forgiveness is all that matters
Now, you saying that is *COMPLETELY INCONSISTENT* with 1 John 1:9, which states that *IF* you confess, you *WILL* be forgiven by GOD. If the apostles could deny someone forgiveness (which they're *COMMANDED* not to in the first place), then 1 John 1:9 would be a lie, since someone could possibly confess and not be forgiven because of an unfaithful apostle saying "nope I'm a dick".
That is completely inconsistent.
>>77884265
If you read that as only speaking to the apostles in that specific instance, it is not necessarily a command to all people to exist thereafter. So no.
>>77884536
Well the apostles seemed to think so because they obeyed and instructed their successors to do the same.
>>77884657
Or they didn't and someone else came along later and simply said they did. Neither you or I know what happened millennia before we were born.
