Trans-woman here
There seems to be a metric fuckton of trans shit-posts on this board as of late. So I would like to clear some things up about trans people.
The issue everyone keeps running in to is the fact that society is only exposed to the people who are actively displaying the fact they are trans to the world. These people do not suffer from the same condition as legitimate trans-gender individuals.
A true trans-woman wants to be seen as a literal woman. They do not tell anyone about being trans because that would cause an immense feeling of dysphoria. They live in what is called "stealth" mode.
Trans women in stealth mode who pass and look like normal women don't take issue with or even have to deal with 99% of the issues that are being discussed in the mainstream media or on this board. There is no reason for me to give a shit about "bathroom laws" because I can use the ladies room because I look like a woman and people don't question it. I don't need to pitch a fit about parents not wanting me around their children because 1. I don't particularly care to be around children and 2. I don't look like a filthy fucking man in a dress.
True trans aspire to be mothers. True trans love and conform to traditionalism. I would like /pol/ to at least make an attempt to understand the different between a true trans woman and these AGP crossdressing freaks.
But also be aware that 90% of people that claim to be trans these days will be AGP freaks. Your disgust with trans people is completely justified, but just try to remember that not every trans woman is a libcuck.
Also as a favor I will give you some easy ways to identify an AGP freak.
>anime watcher
>speaks and writes like a teenage girl
>cam whores
>liberal
>started their transition over the age of 20
Thank you for listening.
>>71847434
Tits or gtfo?
I really have no idea what to say here.
Tits or gtfo.
>>71847434
TLDR >I MISS MUH DIKK
Thanks for your copypasta.
>>71847434
tl;dr
paint the wall with your brains faggot
>>71847434
>Trans-woman here
That's a funny way of saying man.
>>71847434
>AGP
What is AGP?
Also, your post seems to exclude people who transition later in life from being 'trans', because 90% of those people will likely never pass.
>>71847434
Titsn'Dick or gtfo.
>>71847434
>A
>FUCKING
>MALE
>LEAF
Weather you shout it to the world or not, a mental illness is a mental illness
>>71847434
Hm good point. I am now a cruzmissle
>>71849042
Autogynephilia
>>71849281
Gender dysphoria is a mental illness, transition is the treatment.
>>71847434>>71847434
Are you also a true Scotsman?
>>71847434
>A Fucking Leaf
Post discarded.
Fuck you. You're a man.
There's no difference between a kid saying he's a dog, and saying he's a girl. It's mental illness and our society coddles the special snowflakes to the point this becomes accepted or else.
You should have gotten counseling and support instead of wearing a gender like a costume.
>>71849358
A misdiagnosis.
Medication is a better answer.
>>71849358
>transition is the treatment.
Transition to the next life
>>71849529
Name a medication that adequately addresses gender dysphoria.
>>71847434
Trans people are fine, just like fags. Just don't be in your face about it
>>71847434
>Trans-woman here
You're a man. Plain and simple. Seek psychological help.
>>71847434
>Trans-'''''''''''''''''''''Woman''''''''''''''''''''''''
>>71849515
No, don't listen to him. You're not even a man anymore. You're a fucking mutilated freak. You will never be woman and you will never be man again either. Enjoy your mutilated, dysfunctional, grotesque body until you start regretting being a dumb shit and commit suicide few years down the line
>>71849358
This anon gets it
>>71847434
Goddamn leafposters
>>71847434
Sure hon. I bet you totally pass.
also: >>71849449
>>71847434
keep posting these threads and i will punish you without any remorse..
>>71849358
So since the suicide rate among post op trannies is so high you're saying the treatment is an hero? Why not start with that.
>>71847434
Im a fag dude and I hate people like you
Get the hell out of LGB
>>71849805
[citation needed]
>>71849696
>mutilated
You realize very few trans go through with re-assignment, right? And there are many who are against it.
Post a pic, OP.
>>71849805
What?
Form a coherent sentence please.
Prove you're not a Hon
>>71849582
Bleach, if you ingest a copious amount it cures whatever ails you.
>>71849582
Pimozide.
>>71847434
Do you accept that transsexuality is a mental illness that should be cured, and not encouraged?
Can you explain what the fuck "trans-woman" is?
Does that mean you think you're a woman or you're a man?
>>71847434
Total hon or else you'd post a picture.
>>71850086
Yeah, it's a mental illness just like homosexuality. You're on the wrong side of history
>>71847434
>Trans-woman here
Of course the first thing the degenerate does is draw attention to him/her/xe/watt/xeno/chairself.
>>71850077
Go ahead and give a source, I'm not doing your legwork for you.
>>71850077
>the pimozide meme
You fell for the meme.
>sample size 1
>not even a research paper
>case study over an individual with schizophrenia
>reported feeling "mild gender dysphoria" and sexual fetishism relating to his cross dressing.
Not a baseline to measure all transpeople, not a reputable sample size, not a reputable study.
>>71850235
He means this paper: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8839957
See this: >>71850295
He's a cuck that fell for a long time meme.
>>71849042
That's sad. He was decent looking as a guy. A little on the skinny side, probably because he's having mental issues, but would look nice if he lifted weights. But no, he decides to destroy himself and become a living joke. Fuck this meatgrinder of a world.
>>71847434
op where you from il fuck ur ass
>>71847434
>True trans aspire to be mothers
as much as i appreciate your self-loathing, this shit is too funny
K.
Oh,it's you again,"red-pilled trans".
I thought i told you last time,>>>/soc/ is the place you should be,attention-whoring waste of human cells.
>mental illness
Get the fuck out, fag
![Make-a-Banana-Split-Step-6[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/tufhtiX.jpg "Make-a-Banana-Split-Step-6[1].jpg")
>>71847434
Did you get your banana split yet?
You're not a real trans-woman until they split your banana into a vagina.
>>71850177
The wrong side of history is the right side of Humanity, you selfish cuck.
You think it's better to be on the right side of history because you wanna save your own skin, but what you fail to realize is being on the right side of Humanity instead, saves everyone's skin, including yours.
>>71850086
I accept that it's a fucked up thing to do to yourself and generally should not be encouraged by society.
But psychology is ran by jews. Why do you think psychologists refuse to treat us with actual medicine and yet they will instantly give people anti-depressants because they had a bad day?
So yeah, I think it's a "mental illness", but I am very weary to give any legitimacy to the absolute fucking pseudo-science that is psychology. There is simply too many cases of them fucking with clinical trials and blatantly lying to get drugs pushed out into the public. On top of that like we all know they never stay consistent with their narrative and all the sudden wanting to cut your dick off isn't considered fucked up to them because it fits the current mold of what it is to be liberal.
Also just to clear some more things up, I do not actually believe I am a woman. I'm well aware of my biological situation. I'm completely self-aware of the fact that I'm fucked in the head. But I want to do the best I can at keeping myself from suicide while conforming to society instead of expecting society to conform to my whims. I figured this would be something /pol/ could respect but perhaps not.
>>71851111
Yes.
![icTABAS[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/t3iXL5n.jpg "icTABAS[1].jpg")
>>71851111
cool, repeating digits!
>>71851204
>I figured this would be something /pol/ could respect but perhaps not.
/pol/ is now nothing but 13 year old edgelords. I wouldn't worry about obtaining their respect.
>>71847434
>Woman
No you're not.
You're just a freak with cut off mutiliated dick.
>>71851204
We'll at least you have introspection.
>>71847434
>They live in what is called "stealth" mode.
Listen dude, you say "stealth" mode, everyone else says, polite enough to not question or point out a man with a neurological disorder.
>a mentally ill freak tells us how to manifest its mentally ill freakishness properly in a desperate attempt to set itself apart from the rest of its kind.
Oh, well in that case, I take back everything awful I ever said about you.
>>71851204
>pseudo-science that is psychology
Okay anon, how about neurology.
Pic related: See the last 25 years of research into sexual dimorphism and transgender brain physiology. These are all peer reviewed, variable source, research articles. In almost every single area we've ever found a difference between male and female brains, transgender people have the opposite of their birth sex (or intermediary).
Tradionalist conservatives like to talk about how we are biological creatures ruled by instinct. Well, how far fetched is it to assume that we have an instinctual, internal sense of gender that drives natural behaviors?
I think it's a physical mutation that manifests itself as mental discomfort.
>>71847434
>A true trans-woman wants to be seen as a literal woman.
Honestly this is the only problem i have with trans* people. Everyone else wants to be accepted and treated as who they are except transpeople. They absolutely despise being considered "people who want to be the other gender" instead of "the other gender".
>>71851204
And yet the only thing you still haven't figured out is the fact that nobody gives a shit. You can rape dogs and study how to correctly speak sumerian,the problem with mentally deranged males like you is the fact that you and the likes of you seem to think anyone cares about how bad life is for you. You are a freak,a mentally deficient human. Live your life how you see fit,and keep it to yourself. Or,as I suggested earlier,>>>/soc/,those will give a shit.
>>71851586
>neurological disorder
Confirmed for not knowing what the fuck you're talking about.
You're like /pol/'s version of an SJW, just mindlessly attacking anyone with an unorthodox position. Embarrassing m8.
>>71850178
It's relevant to the post, dipshit.
Go eat lead you freak
>>71851204
r u cute?
>trans woman here
That's where I stopped reading. I don't read shit by degenerates.
>>71847434
>True trans aspire to be mothers.
>True trans love
> conform to traditionalism.
True Trans can aspire to be whatever they want BUT reality says fuck you. You have a dick. You want to be traditional? Find a wife and fuck a kid into existence.
Fucking Trans people are the most selfish lunatics out their. Its always "Me me me me my my my my mine mine mine mine"
>>71851919
Yes anon, I look exactly like a normal woman.
>>71851776
This is something I can agree with. Like I said I'm aware there is clearly something wrong.
>>71851782
My main point is that it's my responsibility to make myself be perceived as close to a woman as I possibly can, not societies responsibility to change the definition of what it is to be a woman by forcing people to let crossdressing men use the same washroom as little girls.
Being trans is a mental illness usually stemmed from a complete and utter failure to meet gender standards.
Can't be a man? Well let's try being a woman.
>>71851981
>I don't read shit by [people I disagree with].
Fixed that for you, you fucking idiot SJW-tier moron.
l0l faggot.
>>71847434
there is no such thing as a trans woman. you can be a little sissy boy who sucks cocks or a bodily mutilated mental patient, is that what you are thinking of?
>>71849358
>transition is a treatment.
FTFY
Also it is really shitty treatment. It is better than killing yourself yes, but ultimately unpractical.
Because it is not just transition, it is transition and try to convince everyone else that you really are a woman, which will never happen. Most will never be openly rude to you but you must realize that our society and almost all societies treat women and men differently and to nearly everyone a trans woman will always still be a man, that is playing make believe.
What is going to get worse is if the culture solidifies around the idea that trans-women really are women, and everyone should just accept it as normal. Then research into the underlying cause of the neurological disorder will be frowned on and development for an actual pharmacological treatment that could help people afflicted with transgenderism will be labeled as "transphobic" Anyone who just wants to live their live without transitioning but still wants an option so they don't constantly hate themselves will be seen as enabling bigots.
So sure, if you want to dress like a woman, take HRT and call yourself a woman's name be my guest. Just don't try to get society to accept it as "normal" because when you do that you aren't just affecting yourself.
>>71851204
Some /pol/ Anon's can't turn off "ass whole" mode. Us red-pillers get you. Thank you for sharing this with the board. I wish the best for you and your life, and hope some day proper (non political) treatment can be found.
>>71847434
no matter what you say trans people speak for themselves.
there is a reason their suicide rate is so high. and it got nothing to do with acceptance. they know that they lead a broken half-life. m2f cannot bear children and f2m cannot give children.
they know they fucked up and have gone against their purpose of life.
so they end theirs.
after all whats a human that cant procreate?
check this shit out:
http://www.sexchangeregret.com/
You'll never be a chick your just a sissy boy freak.
>>71849042
you are a awful human being
>>71852313
I'm not going to even read your post 2bh because you referred to gender dysphoria as a 'neurological disorder'. >>71851586
You clearly don't know what the fuck you're on about, and are just spouting opinions you think most of the morons on here will agree with.
>>71847434
>Trans-woman here
You mean you're a man.
>>71851789
>Confirmed for not knowing what the fuck you're talking about.
If it is not a neurological disorder what is it?
>Born with genetic make up of man
>Born with same organs as a man
>Physiology matches that of a man
>As they age and enter puberty body changes same to the way it changes for men
>Develop secondary sexual characteristics same a man
>Some portion of their brain tells them that they are really a woman and their body is wrong.
Literally every part of their body is that of a man's except for one small portion of their brain that tells them they really are a woman and their body is wrong.
What else could it be other than a neurological disorder? Seriously?
>>71847434
there was a man who claimed to be a trans woman, who went into a womans bathroom to flim little girls peeing. Thats fucking sick and this bathroom law, you need your own damn bathroom or use a mens bathroom, i don't take offense to almost any person. But please, if you do ever see a man filming children in womens bathrooms, beat them down.
>>71852666
>If it is not a neurological disorder what is it?
A mental disorder, a completely different category.
You don't even know this basic distinction, and you're on here trying to sway the opinion of 13 year old edgelords. It may work for them, but not for intelligent informed people.
![maxresdefault[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/XqclURh.jpg "maxresdefault[1].jpg")
In most ancient places of note (Rome, Egypt, the shithole that is the Middle East and Africa) there were frequent sexual encounters between the same sex.
But the thing is this doesn't make homosexuality or being a tranny "okay." These men were taken by other men in displays of dominance; when other men subjugated and used lesser men for their own desires, it showed who the 'good' men were and who the 'bad' men were. Some bad men bred, sure, but the good men claimed all the good women by showing they were above other men, bearing more virility and a better chance of destroying other men who tried to steal away wives or kill children.
That's all homosexuality is. Gays are genetic losers, but since the modern era frowns upon military rape and allowing strong men to display their dominance we have to "tolerate" them as "equals." Same goes for trannies.
>>71852046
>it's my responsibility to make myself be perceived as close to a woman as I possibly can
>You can't date a normal guy precisely because you want to be percieved as a woman.
>What others take for granted is presented as a life goal to you.
That's fuckin sad.
>>71852666
Neurology is the nervous system.
>>71849866
>>71849948
http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0016885
The overall mortality for sex-reassigned persons was higher during follow-up (aHR 2.8; 95% CI 1.8–4.3) than for controls of the same birth sex, particularly death from suicide (aHR 19.1; 95% CI 5.8–62.9)
tl;dr trannies commit suicide at an increased rate after getting hormone treatment or sex reassignment surgery.
>>71852904
>A mental disorder, a completely different category.
Oh then why are some "mental disorders" treated with lithium? Or other pharmacological treatments?
Face it tranny brains a fucked up, probably due to something that occurs during fetal development. It doesn't make them bad people, but like every problem in this world it is important to see it for what it is so the most effective solutions can be found for it.
>>71847434
>Trans women in stealth mode who pass and look like normal women don't
Exist. They don't exist you delusional faggot.
>>71849948
He's saying you should kill yourself because trannies kill themselves in such great numbers anyway. Like it's inevitable.
>>71847434
>Trans-woman here
Fake tits or GTFO
>>71853047
Guess what the brain is made up of neurons and is the center of the nervous system. If there is a chemical or physiological difference in Tranny brains that makes them hate the bodies they are born with that is a neurological disorder.
>>71847434
>Trans woman
>woman
stopped reading right there.
get help retard
>>71853075
False. The one study you cite is Cecilia Dhejne who has spoken out directly against your type assessment of her research. Her work spanned from 1979-2001. It was split into TWO groups (1979-1989 and the 1989-2001). This study only included transgender people that get surgery (27% of the transpopulation). Further, ONLY THE FIRST COHORT had elevated suicide rates post-transition. The second cohort had substantially lower rates. The majority of research as data aggregate shows the OPPOSITE of what you claim.
So actually, this was true for a small group from 1979-1989 but her second group actually showed suicide rates that were parallel to normal people. Nice try though m8. The overwhelming majority (including the study you cited) actually shows transition IS beneficial.
>>71849732
Kek the guy in the pic looks like an Israeli comedian
>>71852904
>Mental disorder
Poorly defined meme. See: >>71851776
Sexual dimorphism in the brain has been well understood since the 1990's. We then shifted and began looking at the brains of transgender people through the lens of sexual dimorphism. What we found is the sexually dimorphic areas of the transgender brain match their experienced gender rather than birth sex (or occupies an intermediate position). Being transgender appears to be a physical mutation that causes mental issues (gender dysphoria).
You know in the DSM-V, dysphoria is the illness and the vast majority of research shows dysphoria goes away in successful transitions.
>>71853399
Alright m8. I'll reread the data and get back to you
>>71853399
And yet selfadmittedly 8 times more suicide attempts,or,as I like to call them,the attempts to do what's right.
Here's the full study for you.
http://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/research/suicide-attempts-among-transgender-and-gender-non-conforming-adults/
>>71853620
Please do because this myth that trannies have elevated suicide rate post-transition is wrong. Here is some more data:
>Heylans et al., 2014: "A difference in SCL-90 [a test of distress, anxiety, and hostility] overall psychoneurotic distress was observed at the different points of assessments (P = 0.003), with the most prominent decrease occurring after the initiation of hormone therapy (P < 0.001)...Furthermore, the SCL-90 scores resembled those of a general population after hormone therapy was initiated."
>Colizzi et al., 2013: "At enrollment, transsexuals reported elevated CAR ['cortisol awakening response', a physiological measure of stress]; their values were out of normal. They expressed higher perceived stress and more attachment insecurity, with respect to normative sample data. When treated with hormone therapy [at followup, 1 year after beginning HRT], transsexuals reported significantly lower CAR (P < 0.001), falling within the normal range for cortisol levels. Treated transsexuals showed also lower perceived stress (P < 0.001), with levels similar to normative samples."
>
de Vries, et al., 2014 studied 55 trans teens from the onset of treatment in their early teenage years through a follow-up an average of 7 years later. They found no negative outcomes, no regrets, and in fact their group was slightly mentally healthier than controls.
>>71853620
>>71853766
>Lawrence, 2003 surveyed post-op trans folk: "Participants reported overwhelmingly that they were happy with their SRS results and that SRS had greatly improved the quality of their lives. None reported outright regret and only a few expressed even occasional regret."
>Gomez-Gil et al., 2012: "SADS, HAD-A, and HAD-Depression (HAD-D) mean scores [these are tests of depression and anxiety] were significantly higher among patients who had not begun cross-sex hormonal treatment compared with patients in hormonal treatment (F=4.362, p=.038; F=14.589, p=.001; F=9.523, p=.002 respectively). Similarly, current symptoms of anxiety and depression were present in a significantly higher percentage of untreated patients than in treated patients (61% vs. 33% and 31% vs. 8% respectively)."
>Broad survey conducted in the UK. Unlike the previous links, it's not peer-reviewed, but the large sample size provides some corroboration of the above results. In particular, we have: (Page 15): "Stage of transition had a substantial impact upon life satisfaction within the sample. 70% of the participants stated that they were more satisfied with their lives since transition, compared to 2% who were less satisfied (N=671)" (Page 50): " Most participants who had transitioned felt that their mental health was better after doing so (74%), compared to only 5% who felt it was worse (N=353)." (Page 55): "For participants who had transitioned, this had led to changes in their self-harming. 63% felt that they harmed themselves more before they transitioned, with only 3% harming themselves more after transition (N=206)." (Page 59): "Suicidal ideation and actual attempts reduced after transition, with 63% thinking about or attempting suicide more before they transitioned and only 3% thinking about or attempting suicide more post-transition. 7% found that this increased during transition, which has implications for the support provided to those undergoing these processes.
>>71853766
>55
Yeah such a huge dataset to make conclusive statements from.
>>71853711
>http://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/research/suicide-attempts-among-transgender-and-gender-non-conforming-adults/
ULTRAKEK! You just cited a study that actually supports transgender people instead of claiming their suicide is because they are mentally ill.
>shows that transgender respondents who experienced rejection by family and friends, discrimination, victimization, or violence have a higher risk of attempting suicide. 78 percent of survey respondents who suffered physical or sexual violence at school reported suicide attempts, as did 65 percent of respondents who experienced violence at work.
There are 2 important points to make.
1. That study also cross checked the data and found those with a supportive network (friends/family), actually have suicide rates in normal levels.
2. The data in these survey's is always skewed towards the more unstable of transgender people because those that have successfully transitioned and pass AVOID these studies and clinic research. These sample pools are skewed towards less successful trannies.
>>71847434
I have nothing against trans people (I dig futa porn most) but seriously, if you pretended to be a woman only for me to discover you are not, I'd fucking bitchslap the shit out of you.
>>71853941
>Looks at 1 of the single studies and draws a conclusion over the whole body of research from different scientists and sources.
There is a tremendous more amount of research that supports transition as an effective treatment.
Even the main research /pol/ tries to use to say trannies are worse after transitioning is not true. It's mis-interpreted and the researcher herself spoke out about its misconstrued usage (Dhejne)
>>71853766
>>71853827
It is interesting. You're completely right that the study itself seems to contradict the stated results. I think a larger sample size is needed to address the confirmation bias but it seems like reassignment surgery is helping more people than harming
>>71853941
>huge dataset to make conclusive statements from
It's not about individual studies. It's about the aggregate of data. The aggregate shows transition is effective. Meant to add this to my previous post.
>>71847434
inb4 >South Africa
Desu I agree. The only trans and gay people I have a problem with are the ones who flaunt and fetishise it, and even though they seem to be the majority of both groups I think they're something else entirely. They're a more extreme version of the self-hating liberal - they have no identity and feel like they need one (because of the whole "everyone's unique and special" meme), so they grab onto one by turning themselves into an opressed minority.
That's just my theory but it'd explain why that type are always so unstable.
>>71847434
If you can't bear a child, you're not a real woman.
>>71854479
Oh and pic related isn't trans if it bothers you.
>>71854147
Yes,and it is normal for a family of a man who tries to convince everyone he's known for years that he is a woman to support them. As tumblr has shown over the years,if you create a hugbox,every sort of mental retardation is free to flourish,e.g. spacekin and all that bullshit. So,as a matter of fact,it is normal for the surroundings of a ""transitioning female"" to reject said transition,so suicide rates are the normal response of degerate males to outside stimuli.
>The data in these survey's is always skewed towards the more unstable of transgender people because those that have successfully transitioned and pass AVOID these studies and clinic research
Well fuck,mate,then there is never any correct research and everything is wrong,your point is right and all those data pools and researchers are wrong because their data is skewed and only you noticed it,amirite?
>>71854370
>but it seems like reassignment surgery is helping more people than harming
Dude this literally shows to me how little you understand about this topic. First off, only 15% of the entire transpopulation gets bottom surgery.
>33% of MtF
>5-10% of FtM
Secondly, that study was done in the early 80's when transgender people were tremendously less accepted AND the genital surgery had less desirable results, costed more, and took longer to recover from.
The idea that transpeople are getting harmed more by surgery is just totally bunk. Not even 1/5th of the transpopulation gets surgery and the vast majority of modern surgery seems to be very well received. The patients from the 80's were working with much less refined techniques as doctors were still developing the methods.
NON BINARY >>71854422
Fuck off and fuck that Montreal transfuck who makes the comics about Steph. Fucking faggots all of you, you had a life that was too easy and now need to invent illnesses just to have pity from your peers. Attention whores all of you.
>>71852046
Post pic and stop dodgeing it.
Inb4 man face.
>>71854562
The first bit you said is just subjective moral superiority garbage
>muh traditional values
>muh nuclear family
The second part,
>researchers are wrong because their data is skewed and only you noticed it,amirite
No, this happens for any public surveys. Any public survey, non-peer reviewed data does not have well controlled sample bases.
Go ahead and disregard all this then: >>71853766
>>71853827
That's a portion of the research that exists that shows transition benefits. Period. Of course there is the rare anomaly but the same could be said about ANY medical treatment.
>>71855000
Oh,how wasted those trips are.
First,where have I ever mentioned traditional family structure? Maybe you are just projecting your own dislikes so hard I could watch Interstellar on that projection in IMAX. All I'm saying it this transition is unnatural for a human being,and other human beings will always look at it with disgust and fear unless dictated by a societal structure that that pervertion is in fact alright.
Second,I've never said that transition was or wasn't beneficial. All I've said that all trannies,no matter their state of being,either they've already cut up their own dick or just put their wifes clother over the hairy legs and call themselves a woman,actually want to kill themselves. And my sarcasm went right over you. So you seem to think that this giant flaw in questioning is never compensated for? They just leave it like that,all the sociologists never try to find a compensating algorithm,they just throw their arms up and say "Well,nothing we can do here,it's not like there's a whole fucking science dedicated to the topic"
>le no true scotman
(You)
Have fun being mentally derranges
>>71855412
Trips of truth mate.
>unnatural for a human being
Except its literally not and gender variant people have existed in nearly every culture across nearly every continent since the beginning of recorded human history. They were not always looked at with disgust or fear either. In many cultures they were revered as civic leaders able to empathize with males AND females to solve problems.
Here is the redpill on trannies:
-Trannies brains are more like the opposite sex (or an intermediary position)
-Trannies experience their life as you would expect them to in lieu of reversed sexual dimorphic structures (which are most prevalent in areas involving endocrine control).
-Trannies empirically do better after transitioning
-Trannies have existed in all cultures throughout history.
So what's the big fucking deal mate?
>>71855769
>here's a redpill with no source
Sure thing, faggot
>>71855769
>Trannies have existed in all cultures throughout history.
Gon need proofs on that ludicrous statement before I even consider that.
>literally not
Nice counter-argument there.
>many cultures
Once again,all those sources amaze me in how full and varied they are.
And the same goes for the whole redpill,as this mexican intellectual mentioned >>71856012
>>71856012
Source on Neurology research? See: >>71851776
45 research papers with full citations. Half over the last 25 years of sexual dimorphic research. The other half over transgender brain neurology with summaries of their samples, methodologies, and findings.
Source on benefit of transition? See a few here: >>71853766
>>71853827
Source on history?
Gender variance in India over the last 2000 years: Hijras, Aravani, Aruvani and Jagappa.
Gender variance in Native Americans: Berdache, Two Spirits, Inuit FTMs serve White Whale Woman, who was believed to have been transformed into a man or woman-man.
Gender variance in South America: MTF priestesses have been found among the Araucanians.
That's to name a few. It's in European cultures and Asian cultures as well. I care less about the appeal to history and more about the massive amount of empirical data I've presented.
>>71856586
Pic related, Aphrodite was a dick girl.
>>71856653
Here are two different Greek philosophers from 2000 years ago talking about the phenomenon of men that wish to live as women and do everything (including self surgery) to achieve it.
note: the bottom of that image is cancerous.
>>71856653
As with many ancient Greek deities, there is more than one story about her origins. According to Hesiod's Theogony, she was born when Cronus cut off Uranus's genitals and threw them into the sea, and she arose from the sea foam (aphros). According to Homer's Iliad, she is the daughter of Zeus and Dione. According to Plato (Symposium, 180e), these two origins were of entirely separate entities: Aphrodite Ourania and Aphrodite Pandemos.
t. Wikipedia
With the emphasis on Cut Off.
>>71856586
You mention all these words meaning people who pretend they are different sex. Nobody denies they've always been there. Where are any indications they were something else but categorised trash?
>>71847434
Thank you for the post, this 'trans trend' has been really confusing me because of all the yuppies acting like asshats. The way the trendies address this is almost an act of self savatage and personal hatred.
You take your identity in an act of self exceptince and love. <3
>let your little lady freak flag fly
>>71856851
Dude, you literally only focused on the history. I don't give a fuck about the history. It's the weakest type of argument there is.
>were something else but categorised trash
Yeah, in none of these cultures were they viewed as trash. In fact, the Galli near Greece were accepted and seen as high level of beauty.
I've given you empirical facts but you just want to ignore them.
-Trannies brains are more like the opposite sex (or an intermediary position)
-Trannies experience their life as you would expect them to in lieu of reversed sexual dimorphic structures (which are most prevalent in areas involving endocrine control).
-Trannies empirically do better after transitioning
So what's the fucking deal?
>>71850478
yeah the guy needed more testosterone, laying around doing nothing will literally make you a sissy. I mean maybe be might have turned out gay but not a full blown transvesto.
>>7185451
>your impotent, your not a real man
>your baren, your not a real women.
Fuck off
>>71857353
In the early 70's they did experiments on transgender people where they gave them androgens and had them lift weights/play sports. It had a success rate of ~0%
>>71857209
The fucking deal is - who gives a shit about how they are so different. They were born male. They will always be male,no matter how much they mutilate their own body or convince themselves.
>brains are like opposite sex
Still waiting on dem proofs. General "studies on gender dysphoria" ain't cutting it,there's way more to dysphoria than that.
>experince their life blah blah blah
What's that got to do with anything?
>empirically do better after trnasitioning
Oh,well,now I clearly see,before transitioning 58% try to kill themselves only 42% try to,let's break down a fully functional societal norm that benefitted humanity for the past god knows how many years so 10 % of the people who should have killed themselves to begin with stay alive!
These people are sick,and I don't want them anywhere near me or my family. And,preferrably,that "near" includes planet Earth.
That's the deal.
>>71857705
only 42% try to after*
>>71853521
fridman?
>>71854402
>>71854323
Give it another decade and more than half of those passing trannies will have committed suicide.
Then where will your aggregate be?
>>71857705
Jesus you are fucking dense. I already cited twice.
>Still waiting on dem proofs
Yokota, Y. et al “Callosal Shapes at the Midsagittal Plane: MRI Differences of Normal Males, Normal Females, and GID”. An MRI study of 22 transwomen and 28 transmen examined the shape of the corpus callosum in the brain at a specific cross-sectional plane, and compared this shape with that observed in 211 XY karyotype males and 211 XX karyotype females. Their results demonstrated that not only could the sex of the patient be determined with 74% accuracy from the MRI picture, but the shapes of the brains in the transsexuals strongly reflected their gender, and not their biological sex.
Zubiaurre “Cortical Thickness in Untreated Transsexuals”. A 2012 study examined cortical thickness in the brain between 29 XY karyotype males, 23 XX karyotype females, 24 transmen, and 18 transwomen. None of the transsexual subjects had received any hormone treatment prior to the study. Using an MRI, the researchers found that the transwomen had more cortical thickness than the XY males in three regions of the brain. The transmen showed evidence of masculinization of their grey matter. In all transsexuals studied, the key differences from their biological sex were found in the right hemisphere. On a graph, transpeople statistically fell in the middle between the XX and XY karyotypes.
Luders "Regional gray matter variation in male-to-female transsexualism." MtF transgender people were analyzed by fMRI; gray matter variation throughout the brain more closely resembled the layout of a cisfeminine brain, rather than that of a cismasculine brain, implying gender identity depends on cerebral layout.
>>71857705
Hare "Androgen receptor repeat length polymorphism associated wth male-to-female transsexualism." Genes involved in sex steroidogenesis are components to transgenderism and gender dysphoria; specifically, androgen receptor repeat length polymorphisms were observed in an MtF-transgender population, but not a cismale population; this warrants the conclusion that male gender identity is mediated by the androgen receptor.
Kruijver "Male-to-female transsexuals have female neuron numbers in a limbic nucleus." BSTc somatostatin-expressing neuron counts - twice as high in cismen and transmen as in ciswomen and transwomen. More intense Zhou.
Zhou "A sex difference in the human brain and its relation to transsexuality." BSTc size in transwomen resembles that of ciswomen and is independent of sexual orientation.
Bentz "A polymorphism of the CYP17 gene related to sex steroid metabolism is associated with female-to-male but not male-to-female transsexualism." CYP17 -34 T>C SNP allele frequencies were statistically significantly divergent between FtM transgender people and cisfemale controls; genotype distributions were also divergent in a statistically significant manner.
Gooren "The biology of human psychosexual differentiation." Meta-analysis of sex-steroid production and prenatal androgen exposure in transgender people.
Swaab "Sexual differentiation of the human brain: relevance for gender identity, transsexualism, and sexual orientation." Analysis of prenatal androgen exposure similar to Gooren, but notes that neurological testosterone availability in MtF trans people is deficient, causing transgenderism or non-heterosexualism.
>>71849358
No more than hacking off a limb is a "treatment" for BIID.
>>71847434
gas yourself
![406[1]e.jpg](https://i.imgur.com/3Q6OEwn.jpg "406[1]e.jpg")
>>71857705
Garcia-Falgueras "A sex difference in the hypothalamic uncinate nucleus: relationship to gender identity." The structure of the anterior hypothalamus plays a strong role in the development of transgenderism; INAH3 volume in transwomen resembles ciswomen, and INAH3 volume in transmen resembles cismen.
Rametti "White matter microstructure in female to male transsexuals before cross-sex hormonal treatment. A diffusion tensor imaging study." By diffusion-tensor-imaging MRI and fractional anisotropy analysis of various transgender and cisgender people, FtM transgender people more closely resembled a masculine-structured brain than a feminine- structured brain, noted by the study in the structures of the right superior longitudinal fasciculus, the foreceps minor, and the corticospinal tract. White matter microstructure therefore plays a role in gender identity.
Burke "Hypothalamic response to the chemo-signal androstadienone in gender dysphoric children and adolescents". Androstadienone, a particularly fragrant chemosignal responsible for sex-based differences in hypothalamic microstructure; children with gender dysphoria were observed to express differences in hypothalamic activation in accordance with identified gender, rather than assigned gender.
Berglund "Berglund, H. et al. “Male-to-Female Transsexuals Show Sex-Atypical Hypothalamus Activation When Smelling Odorous Steroids". A positron emission tomography (PET) study showed that smelling androgens (male pheromones) caused transwomen to respond in the hypothalamus region of their brain in a manner similar to XX karyotype women. However, smelling estrogen-based pheromones also caused them to respond in the hypothalamus region in a manner similar to XY karyotype men. This combination of results suggests that transwomen occupy an “intermediate position with predominantly female features” in the way the hypothalamus reacted.
>>71848902
kek
>>71857705
Bao, Hahn, Kranz, Kaufmann "Structural Connectivity Networks of Transgender People". 94 subjects, 23 FtM, 21 MtF, 25 cisFemale, 25 cisMale: average age 26. Transsexual subjects did not fulfill criteria for current comorbidities but 9 reported history of depression (n = 2), specific phobias (n = 3), obsessive compulsive disorder (n = 1), anorexia nervosa (n = 2), and substance abuse (n = 4). All patients reported subjective feelings to belong to the other gender before or at puberty. Investigating structural networks in female-to-male and male-to-female transsexuals, we observed differences in hemispheric and lobar connectivity as well as local efficiencies when compared with healthy controls.
Boston University Medical Center. "Transgender: Evidence on the biological nature of gender identity." The researchers conducted a literature search and reviewed articles that showed positive biologic bases for gender identity. These included disorders of sexual development, such as penile agenesis, neuroanatomical differences, such as grey and white matter studies, and steroid hormone genetics, such as genes associated with sex hormone receptors. They conclude that current data suggests a biological etiology for transgender identity.
V.S. Ramachandran "Occurrence of phantom genitalia after gender reassignment surgery". Around 60% of cis-men who have had to have their penis amputated for cancer will experience a phantom penis. Data from several dozen post-operative subjects lends support to our prediction that they have a lower incidence of phantom penis/breast sensations than ‘‘normal’’ individuals who have undergone amputation of the same appendage, for other med. reasons. Remarkably our prediction that female-to male transsexuals would have a phantom penis also seems to be correct. Indeed, more than half of the around 30 female-to-male transsexuals we have interviewed, claim to have experienced this, often since early childhood.
>>71847434
>Trans-woman here
You're a man.
Trannies are mentally ill and it is more harmful to them to feed their delusions than it is to help them deal with their problems in a way that doesnt involve mutilating their bodies via surgery.
You're a fucking disgusting abomination. Kill yourself.
>>71858344
Alright then,you got proof that their brains are in fact more similar,so it's a generic defect. Now,how exactly does this advocate for accepting these into society? You wouldn't make an autistic child be accepted as a completely normal human,would you?
No one cares about your mental illness or how you try and rationalize it, fucker
The fact people advocate you sick bastards to raise kids and go out in public is a shocking disgrace and a sign of the times
Total and utter degeneracy, cultural meltdown, I weep for the west
>>71847434
Your a man you retarded nigger, you have a Y chromosome in every cell, just be a lady boy and get over yourself tranny slut
https://soundcloud.com/couchtruthing/trump-loves-america
>>71858734
Ok, so in short here are a few areas of the brain that are different between XX and XY karyotypes.
>Structural Hemispheric and Lobar Connectivity
>Hypothalamus structure and activation
>Cortical Thickness
>White Matter
>Differences in Limbic nucleus
>diffusion tensor
>Callosal Shapes
In every single one of these areas for transgender people, the structure does not match their birth sex.
/pol/ likes to talk about how we are biological creatures ruled by instinct (the "natural" argument). Well, how far fetched is it to assume that we have an instinctual sense of gender that drives natural behaviors? You don't ever sense it because yours is congruent, but why else do you get natural urges to grab and dominate? protect and provide? All of the instinctual behaviors.
The majority of those brain regions I listed are responsible for endocrine control or limbic system (instincts)
I'm not saying accept transpeople as normal people. They are obviously variants but that doesn't make them less human, less valuable, or less real. Transpeople deserve as much respect as anyone else. Everyone likes to talk about the high suicide rates but I almost guarantee those would plummet substantially (obviously not all the way) if they weren't so heavily discriminated against. Trannies have disproportionately high rates of abuse and sexual assault victomhood, work place discrimination, housing discrimination, etc.
I'm not saying treat them normal. Every transperson knows they are not normal.
>You wouldn't make an autistic child be accepted as a completely normal human,would you
No but I would give that autistic child the human dignity of being respected and having equal rights. Autism is a bad anology to transgender people though because trannies have no mental impairment. This has been demonstrated in studies over and over. They are not disabled, mentally stunted, etc, they just feel like the opposite gender which corresponds to their brain wiring.
>>71847434
It's very odd that you can't just accept the reality of your gender, so instead you have to gloss over the fact that you are pretending with statements like "A true trans-woman wants to be seen as a literal woman." But you are not and will never be a woman.
Thank you for keeping it to yourself and not being a pedophile, but don't pretend that you are doing good things
>>71859658
>Well, how far fetched is it to assume that we have an instinctual sense of gender that drives natural behaviors?
Not far fetched at all,since you've proven with your posted research that gender is governed by how your brain develops. So,you develop with a male oriented brain - you are male. Female - you are female. In between,male body,more female brain - you are a genetic fucking freak. They don't even procreate. They just waste time and space. I'm not going to respect somebody who doesn't have enough respect for a society which is disgusted by them.
>Trannies have no mental impairment.
They have a male body,but believe they are female. If that isn't mental,then fucking hell,all those psychopaths should go free.
Once again,the facts are like this - in a current society,they are freaks. Call them variants if you like,it doesn't change the fact that they are the results of the genetic makeup misfiring. If you want to promote genetic freaks,fine,your life,but move somewhere where your experimentation on the subject "What would human society be like if we treated every mutation of the human body as normal" wouldn't affect the general population.
>>71859658
>people who are so mentally ill that they require the people around them to feed into their delusions instead of encouraging them to get help would totes be normal if you treated them right guise!
No, they are mentally ill full stop, end of discussion.
>>71859757
>accept the reality of your gender
It's because their brains AREN'T their birth sex:
>>71858344
>>71858375
>>71858444
>>71858540
Further, why do you think
>don't pretend that you are doing good things
How does somebody's gender define if they are good or contribute to society? My best friend is a FtM transman and he never mentions his gender but is a successful entrepreneur, very intelligent, and does a tremendous amount of charity work. Are you going to say that he is not doing good things with his life just because he transitioned? He has almost certainly done more good for the world than you will ever.
>all this No True Scotsman about "true" trans
All trans are mentally-ill by default. The "true" ones are as delusional as the "fake" ones.
>>71860277
Mentally ill is a buzzword that is meaningless. Psychiatrists, psychologists, medical practitioners, and researchers don't even use the word because it provides nothing of value or substance about a patients condition.
>>71860167
>In between,male body,more female brain - you are a genetic fucking freak
or... You are something in between? You know sex isn't binary there are numerous types of intersex conditions. Literally the only reason you think sex is binary is because of language. Even the XX and XY nomenclature is only 80 years old and is actually founded on shoddy research "element Y". It just serendipitously became a standard nomenclature.
You should do some research on the history of sex science. As much as we want to think humans only exist in 2 separate boxes it's just not fucking true.
>They just waste time and space.
Okay, I'm just going to give you a piece of anecdotal evidence.
>My best friend is a FtM transman and he never mentions his gender but is a successful entrepreneur, very intelligent, and does a tremendous amount of charity work. Are you going to say that he is not doing good things with his life just because he transitioned?
>>71854510
false. there are cases where women are infertile. in that case, she is no different than OP.
>>71860885
I noticed you didnt touch on the parts of my post where I pointed out how helping someone with a mental disorder of that tier isnt done by feeding their delusions, then again I expect nothing less of a tranny avatar fag.
>>71860885
>I'm just going to give you a piece of anecdotal evidence.
All of your evidence is anecdotal or done by people with a bias. Anyone with sense can see that people like yourself and your friend just suffer from delusions on such a scale that instead of seeking help you instead try to force the general populace to live your delusions with you through threats of force.
Get gassed.
>>71860885
There is no in between. Period. You are either male or a female. There is nothing more. And there needs to be nothing more.
>shoddy Y chromosome research.
Laughed out loud,mate. I suppose all that Y chromosome research on animals and different species is shoddy too,and your belief is correct.
>sex science
Weird way to spell psychiatry.
>anecdotal evidence
Good thing you mentioned that,now I don't even have to write it to dismiss it.
>>71847434
A question OP, do you still have a dick? I have no problem with trans that actually look like women and disgusting men in dresses like you said, but I also find artificial vaginas gross, and a feminine woman with a penis actually turns me on a lot.
Plz respond
>No True Trans
I'm happy you fucks kill yourselves like Disney Lemmings.
>>71849556
Keeekkkkkk
>>71860369
This is why pseudo-science needs to die, they are men pretending to be women, they are mentally ill and you release these studies that are questionable to say the least to support their degeneracy
>>71861503
*rather than disgusting men
I guess you already answered that question earlier though. Is it gay to be attracted to feminine trans women that you can't tell they were men but still have a dong?
>>71847434
Keep it real you beautiful trap.
>>71861674
keep what?
>>71860369
Boipussy or gtfo
>>71860885
You convinced me that transgendered people are better off changing. Everyone else's arguments against what you saying boils down to "die fag", they're retards, the Russian especially.
>>71861064
>>71861199
Because I already talked to people in this thread about what you said.
Also
>All of your evidence is anecdotal or done by people with a bias
Not true at all. It's empirical peer reviewed research from different journals and research clinics. I like how you will completely ignore a massive aggregate of data if it doesn't fit your narrative.
ultra keke irrational.
I'm not a tranny.
>>71861227
>There is no in between. Period. You are either male or a female
1. XXY
2. 45, X
3. Androgen insensitivity syndrome
4. Congenital adrenal hyperplasia
5. DSD
Here are five intersex conditions where the patients are NOT binary. Two of those don't even have the same chromosome structure as XX or XY.
Anybody born with any of those conditions is neither fully male nor female. They are literally intersex.
>Laughed out loud,mate. I suppose all that Y
No, I'm not saying the Y chromosome doesn't exist. Only the interpretation of its function and nomenclature is not correct.
>Weird way to spell psychiatry.
Sex science is its own thing. Psychiatry is medicated psychology, has literally nothing to do with science involving sex.
> I don't even have to write it to dismiss it.
Kek literally everything you've said is based on your own personal feelings. I've given you 40-50 empirical, peer reviewed articles. I drop a single line of anecdotal evidence and you act like a cunt.
>>71847434
tl;dr
Bend over and let me fuck your boy pussy
>>71861948
>your stories and biased studies changed my pliable mind, plz take my tax monies to mutilate your body with surgery that will never change your chromosomes.
>>71861995
>Not true at all. It's empirical peer reviewed research from different journals and research clinics.
Oh my god, you couldnt be further from the truth if you tried. The studies are biased as shit if you bothered to look at who funds the research departments of the universities/institutions where those people work. What you are copy and pasting in this thread is little more than "peer reviewed" propaganda as no one wants to rock the boat anymore in science versus the SJW crowd (you). The loudest subsets of the population are now subverting science and progress because they feel a certain way about whatever their issue of the day is.
>>71854553
It better not be or I will pray your power goes out, and your back up generator dies for your electric fence
XX =/= XY
>>71861629
> pseudo-science
Ah yes, 40 peer reviewed, independent research articles over a span of 25 years is "pseudo-science". No sorry dude, that's empirical science.
I've said it before, I think it's a physical mutation that manifests itself as mental discomfort.
Empirical evidence shows overwhelming benefits for those who transition successfully (not all have the genetics to allow for being semi-passable so they face more discrim.). Those that do successfully transition NO LONGER HAVE GID. They are no longer mentally ill. They no longer suffering from a debilitating sensation of having the wrong body.
>>71861941
Not a tranny. I like to grab and thrust deep into real vaginas. I'm just not a cucked little billpill faggot like you all and I know the truth. The truth is:
-Trannies brains are more like the opposite sex (or an intermediary position)
-Trannies experience their life as you would expect them to in lieu of reversed sexual dimorphic structures (which are most prevalent in areas involving endocrine control).
-Trannies empirically do better after transitioning
-Trannies have existed in all cultures throughout history.
>>71861948
Awesome! That makes all this debate with these idiots completely worth it.
>>71862217
>science shouldn't be trusted because people are doing it.
LMAO. Do you know how science works? It can be proven right and wrong by anyone. You're like a nigger blaming the man and his systems so he can continue being trash.
>>71862510
>Ah yes, 40 peer reviewed, independent research articles over a span of 25 years is "pseudo-science". No sorry dude, that's empirical science.
Empirical science doesnt come from universities and research institutions heavily funded by globalists. What does come out of places like that are studies, ideas and solutions that are meant to further divide the populace and make them weak and complacent.
What really shocks me about your shilling is that you havent been banned yet for being a disgusting avatarfag.
>>71847434
Friend and fucker of many a trans here, and what the OP has said is my experience with trannies.
>>71851776
I might be too late on the train but more recent research has shown that all these differences resulted from HRT. So no, a tranny is not born in the wrong body. They have the brain like their birth sex. Good night.
>>71862217
>The studies are biased as shit if you bothered to look at who funds the research departments of the universities/institutions
I have. Have you? Many of them are independent. Many of them are from different countries. Almost all are from different researchers.
I completely agree there is "liberal" bias in a lot of modern research but the most important is to look at AGGREGATES of data. And the massive aggregate is date is very clear about the neurology of transpeople.
Here is an interesting study (smallish sample size) that has no room for bias because it looked retroactively:
>Combining data from our independent findings with those from past research, 13 of 39 male MZ twin pairs (33.3%) were found to be concordant for transsexual identity and eight of 25 (22.8%) female MZ twins were found concordant. In comparison, concordance between either male or female DZ twins was low or zero (1/38 = 2.6%; Table 5).
>Notably among our responding twins were three sets who had been reared apart and were concordant in transitioning. One was a male set within which the brothers were separated at birth, another was a set of males separated at age 4, and the third was a female pair separated at 14. Each had independently and unknowingly transitioned and found out about each other’s switch as adults after the gender shift.
Twins with the same DNA (monozygotic) had a 33% chance of BOTH transitioning. Twins with seperate DNA (dizygotic) had a near zero chance of both being trans (1/38). In this study there were twins that had even transitioned independently despite being separated at birth or growing up in different environments.
As much as you want to write all this shit off, the evidence is overwhelming and it all points in the same direction.
>>71862920
>all these differences resulted from HRT
Not true. Zhou and Kuiver included post-HRT sample population in their original research and received a lot of criticism for it. All of the modern research I provided does not include those who have had long term treatment on HRT.
So yeah, that applies for some of the studies early on but does not apply to all, or even a majority.
I'd also like your source since I gave all mine.
>>71847434
haha yeah totally bro! we need cruz because Trump degenerate right? Hilldawg roof roof! right anons?
pic related
>>71862701
>Do you know how science works? It can be proven right and wrong by anyone.
Just like outcomes of studies can be manipulated via changing what data is recorded or interpreted. If you are retarded enough to believe that research science and its findings are not impacted by funding and who funds it then you are a lost cause.
>>71862954
Firstly I toss out without even reading it any studies or research conducted by Chinese as they are piss poor at the entire field of research and in general they cheat like mad to get their degrees. In fact I have had to let three go from my lab because they were liars and imbeciles.
Realistically I dont even care about trannies, I just want them to shut the fuck up and sit down and act like normal people instead of parading around their mental problems while demanding that I treat them like something they are not and given current medical technologies ever will be.
>>71862920
There is also fascinating evidence that illuminates a potential link to an internal concept of gender. In this study, they looked at boys who were born without penis/partial penises, which were removed and then the children were raised as girls AND given HRT. Half of these new girls later determine that they are really boys. How would they know to "feel" male when they have no penis, testes, and have had years of HRT and female socialization?
>Boys with an XY karyotype who are born with a cloacal exstrophy (where they are either partly or completely missing a penis) are typically changed surgically into “girls” just after birth, and are given female hormone therapy and counseling. However, about half of these new girls later determine that they are really boys, and change their social gender when they become teenagers or adults. (Bao, Gooren 2006)
Here's another interesting developmental study:
>Girls with an XX karyotype born with congenital adrenal hyperplasia (CAH) (meaning they were exposed to high levels of testosterone in the womb) tend to develop male social tendencies and male personality features. (Hines, Zucker) They tend to be described by their parents as “tomboys”, with a high energy level. (Gooren, 2006) CAH girls are 100-300 times as likely to be transsexual, compared to the general female population, and 1 in 20 have serious gender identity problems. (Bao) One study found that 37% of CAH girls classified themselves as either lesbian or bisexual, a number far greater than the general population. (Gooren, 2006)
>>71862701
>it can be proven right and wrong by anyone
No, it generally can't be proven or disproven by a layman.
How much do you trust the person(s) running the study, the institution(s) funding it, and those PEERS reviewing the study?
Unless you have the training, experience, credentials, and a lab somewhere where you can cut open brains and confirm or reproduce any of this for yourself you're not a peer and you can't review the studies.
>>71863282
That's it guys, I am now a #cruzmissle!
>>71863285
>Firstly I toss out without even reading it any studies or research conducted by Chinese as they are piss poor at the entire field of research and in general they cheat like mad to get their degrees. In fact I have had to let three go from my lab because they were liars and imbeciles.
Uh, only 2/18 of those studies on transgender neurology where Asian researchers. The rest are European, Canadian, American, or Indian.
>>71862510
list them, I've seen 5 or 6, they were all seriously flawed and not based on original, reproducible empirical research but 3rd rate statistical data mining 4 fun and profit you fucking faggot
http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2016/03/03/psychology_study_that_induced_the_reproducibility_crisis_was_wrong.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/28/science/many-social-science-findings-not-as-strong-as-claimed-study-says.html?_r=0
>>71863105
Your sources do not have the proper formatting and information, so I guess you found that on Tumblr. I'm not going to Google keywords to try to find what you claim to have cited.
Also, you have not cited any of the many studies that did not found what YOU want the data to say. For a question so important, you need more than just simplified accounts of 20-30 articles from the 90s to prove your point. Also, cite the ones that did not agree.
I've listed them on an image and with text already.
Here is image form (plus sexual dimorphic research): >>71851776
Here are text versions (more limited): >>71858344
>>71858375
>>71858444
>>71858540
>>71863785
Honestly the moment it started avatarfagging is the moment you should have stopped replying.
>>71862954
Would love to see a neurological study comparing "transpeople" to faggots and bipolar/schizoid types... will it ever happen? nope. Because faggots like you are a goldmine for everyone involved in your "treatment".
>>71847434
TO hell with you freakshow trannys
>>71863785
Fucking cringe dude. The sexual dimorphic sources are from a meta-analysis of the subject.
The brain physiology sources are ones I have found while learning about the subject. And no, I don't just cherry pick. I look for all perspectives over the argument. Which is why I'm here debating on /pol/.
You guys literally never give real evidence other than
>but muh degenercy
Lastly, regardless of how they are formatted it doesn't invalidate the information you stupid nigger.
>>71863994
I would like to see this too!
> faggots like you are a goldmine
I'm a straight white male, fucking nigger. I'm just not an ignorant cuck like you and I actually do research.
>>71863432
>>71863884
What you cite does not mean anything. I am kind of sad that you will just see me bored and uninterested about explaining everything to you, and will probably think I'm ignorant or losing the debate, but I don't have time to waste. You're just citing about anything that sounds like it's supporting your beliefs, but it's not. Happily, I am educated in neuroscience, so I will make a difference someday. But I'm appalled that people just don't understand the basics of psychology or neurology before having such categorical beliefs. Oh well.
>>71853393
woah, thanks for the flag, friend
>>71864078
I don't care about the formatting, but it doesn't contain enough info, I would need some serious googling to even know what you're talking about. You did cherry pick because many articles did not find the effect you're trying so hard to believe is true.
>>71847434
Look, I'm never going to fuck a guy in the ass, no matter how "cute" they larp as. Trannies are mentally ill. They're degenerates. It's pretty simple.
>>71864418
ULTIMATE KEKKKKKKKKKKKK you're talking to an individual that does systems neurology as a career.
>>71864823
> I'm never going to fuck a guy in the ass, no matter how "cute" they larp as
I never asked you to.
>Trannies are mentally ill. They're degenerates.
I never claimed they weren't.
You seem to be lacking some basic reading comprehension. Are you sure you're not a nigger?
>>71847434
You'll never be a real traditional wife. At best you'll be a cute trap, and you can be my fuck buddy if you like fujoshis.
>>71864828
I seriously hope that's not true. But then you're probably a lab assistant that's not very successful.
>>71862510
>>71864828
why didn't you cite this one?
http://www.psyneuen-journal.com/article/S0306-4530%2815%2900030-X/abstract
''largely in accordance with natal sex''
oops!
>>71847434
>true trans woman
>crossdressing freaks
I fail to see the difference.
>>71847434
fuck off, mentally ill special snowflake
>>71862510
>...claims are often made on the basis of isolated brain imaging studies that have not been replicated, and in some cases have found to be wrong.
>For example, says Fine, males are often described as having a "spotlight brain" that processes information such as language in one hemisphere, while girls are supposed to have a "floodlight brain", using both sides of the brain.
>As part of this idea of a more interconnected female brain, females are supposed to have a larger corpus callosum, the thick band of neurones that connect the two hemispheres.
>She says while older smaller studies support these differences, the bulk of more recent data has found otherwise.
>"The data overall just don't support these ideas," says Fine.
http://www.abc.net.au/science/articles/2013/08/05/3816216.htm
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/science/science-news/10684179/Men-and-women-do-not-have-different-brains-claims-neuroscientist.html
>“The bottom line is that saying there are differences in male and female brains is just not true. There is pretty compelling evidence that any differences are tiny and are the result of environment not biology,” said Prof Rippon.
>“You can’t pick up a brain and say ‘that’s a girls brain, or that’s a boys brain’ in the same way you can with the skeleton. They look the same.”
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/science/science-news/10684179/Men-and-women-do-not-have-different-brains-claims-neuroscientist.html
>>71865063
>now you have devolved the discussion completely off of subject to ad hominem assumptions because you are incapable of providing me with evidence that contradicts the follwing:
-Trannies brains are more like the opposite sex (or an intermediary position)
-Trannies experience their life as you would expect them to in lieu of reversed sexual dimorphic structures (which are most prevalent in areas involving endocrine & limbic systems).
-Trannies empirically do better after transitioning
-Trannies have existed in all cultures throughout history (in various forms of gender variance).
You've pivoted away from the discussion and are now rejecting my data because its "not formatted right" and "doesn't contain enough info". Jesus you are a fucking cuck. The burden of proof is on you to disprove me because I have already given piles of evidence to all of my claims.
>for the record I'm a lab specialist and I teach.
>>71847434
> trans 'women'
What's that? Are you a trans man?
Just say I'm a man who dresses as a woman
>>71847434
TL;DR. I'm not reading a fucking essay about how you're totally not mentally ill
>>71847434
>trans woman
You are an effeminate man.
You will never be a woman.
t. Biology
>>71865393
PhD people are the most ignorant of all. Literally. I'd like to tell you they're ignorant because they only know ONE thing... but it's not the case. There's one thing they know NOTHING about and that's why all postdocs are stuck in labs trying to find correlations and try to make sense of all that shit until they're 60, depressed and even more depressed. Regardless of their opinions, there are hundreds of studies about differences in brain structure between m/f.
>telegraph
>>71847434
just follow the statistic and kill yourself
>>71865402
>For those who had sexual reassignment surgery, most said they were “satisfied” with the operation “but their subsequent psycho-social adjustments were no better than those who didn’t have the surgery.”
>“And so at Hopkins we stopped doing sex-reassignment surgery, since producing a ‘satisfied’ but still troubled patient seemed an inadequate reason for surgically amputating normal organs,”
http://cnsnews.com/news/article/michael-w-chapman/johns-hopkins-psychiatrist-transgender-mental-disorder-sex-change
>claims are often made on the basis of isolated brain imaging studies that have not been replicated, and in some cases have found to be wrong.
>For example, says Fine, males are often described as having a "spotlight brain" that processes information such as language in one hemisphere, while girls are supposed to have a "floodlight brain", using both sides of the brain.
>As part of this idea of a more interconnected female brain, females are supposed to have a larger corpus callosum, the thick band of neurones that connect the two hemispheres.
>She says while older smaller studies support these differences, the bulk of more recent data has found otherwise.
>"The data overall just don't support these ideas," says Fine.
http://www.abc.net.au/science/articles/2013/08/05/3816216.htm
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/science/science-news/10684179/Men-and-women-do-not-have-different-brains-claims-neuroscientist.html
>“The bottom line is that saying there are differences in male and female brains is just not true. There is pretty compelling evidence that any differences are tiny and are the result of environment not biology,” said Prof Rippon.
>“You can’t pick up a brain and say ‘that’s a girls brain, or that’s a boys brain’ in the same way you can with the skeleton. They look the same.”
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/science/science-news/10684179/Men-and-women-do-not-have-different-brains-claims-neuroscientist.html
I don't particularly care to be around children and 2. I don't look like a filthy fucking man in a dress.
True trans aspire to be mothers. True trans love and conform to traditionalism.
wtf anon?
>>71865627
Your response is that PhDs are stupid. Good job.
>>71864977
I'm not a trap but I'll be your fuckbuddy, I just want a cute fujoshi to bully and cum inside of
>>71864977
FUJOSHITS LEAVE.
>>71865402 see >>71865131
You have not provided articles that have enough info for me to find them. Articles from the 90s are at best anecdotical. What next are you gonna share me? Gay gene stuff? XD
>>71865393
>Citing news websites.
Also,
>“You can’t pick up a brain and say ‘that’s a girls brain, or that’s a boys brain’
Not really true. This research team was able to guess with 74% accuracy whether the MRI was Male, Female, Transmale, or Transwoman. Large sample size as well:
>Yokota, Y. et al “Callosal Shapes at the Midsagittal Plane: MRI Differences of Normal Males, Normal Females, and GID”. An MRI study of 22 transwomen and 28 transmen examined the shape of the corpus callosum in the brain at a specific cross-sectional plane, and compared this shape with that observed in 211 XY karyotype males and 211 XX karyotype females. Their results demonstrated that not only could the sex of the patient be determined with 74% accuracy from the MRI picture, but the shapes of the brains in the transsexuals strongly reflected their gender, and not their biological sex.
>>71865131
That's a cool one. I haven't seen it but a single article on a sexually dimorphic characteristic as miniscule as gray matter changes nothing. In fact, in their study they said:
>However, there are subtle deviations from the natal sex in sexually dimorphic structures, which can represent signs of a partial sex-atypical differentiation of the brain.
Here is another study over gray matter:
>Luders "Regional gray matter variation in male-to-female transsexualism." MtF transgender people were analyzed by fMRI; gray matter variation throughout the brain more closely resembled the layout of a cisfeminine brain, rather than that of a cismasculine brain, implying gender identity depends on cerebral layout.
>>71865703
>true trans
You occupy the intellectual depth of a 14 year old goth kid. There is no truth in calling yourself trans. You are a man.
>>71864959
L O N D O N ?
>>71865855
I was quoting him retard.
>>71847434
>A true trans-woman wants to be seen as a literal woman. They do not tell anyone about being trans
>Trans-woman here
>>71847434
The netherlands do not feel this way
>>71847434
tldr fag
>>71865942
Then maybe you should use the quote function newfag
>>71865666
Nice 666.
>Hopkins
You all want to talk about biased research but the research about transpeople at John Hopkins is the most biased of all. It's led by Dr. McHugh
>is a self-described orthodox Catholic whose radical views are well documented. In his role as part of the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops' review board, he pushed the idea that the Catholic sex-abuse scandal was not about pedophilia but about "homosexual predation on American Catholic youth." He filed an amicus brief arguing in favor of Proposition 8 on the basis that homosexuality is a "choice." Additionally, McHugh was in favor of forcing a pregnant 10-year-old girl to carry to term even though she had been raped by an adult relative.
AND
>More importantly, Paul committed fraud, study proved him wrong and he got kicked out of APA and ama
A closer reading of the paper shows that the increased mortality is in those who had surgery before 1989, and that mortality in trans people after 1989 is not statistically different from the general population. A recently published paper by Dr. Dhejne and colleagues shows that the regret rate for those having surgery from 2001-2010 is only 0.3%. Dr. Dhejne’s work shows that outcomes for transgender surgery have improved tremendously in the past 30 years, which supports the HHS decision to remove trans exclusions.
So you are citing an openly politically motivated scientist that was caught committing fraud and is now out of the APA and AMA.
But I'm the one with bad research. KEKE
>>71865778
See:>>71853766
>>71853827
>>71858344
>>71858375
>>71858444
>>71858540
Also I responded to the >>71865131, see: >>71865784
>>71865998
Then maybe you should learn how to use contex dumbass.
>>71865784
You see? You re-interpret anything based on your pre-established delusions. LARGELY in accordance with natal sex doesn't mean what you think it means. Slight deviations maybe 1% difference while natal females have 40% differences with males. For example, gay people being 2cm shorter on average doesn't mean they are as tall as women.
I'm glad you admitted not doing your research. It really wasn't hard to find. You got some reading to do.
>>71847434
die
>>71866041
No matter how many hoops you jump through justifying your existence to people on the internet you will only be welcome when it is state enforced. Your lifestyle and fetish is repulsive.
(Hold on, we're almost there!)
>>71847434
Thank you, sir, for sharing your opinion.
>>71865703
>I don't look like a filthy fucking man in a dress.
Yes you do.
>>71847434
>Trans woman here
Top fucking kek hang yourself like the rest of the degenerates
>>71847434
>Trans-woman here
Opinion discarded
>>71866041
>the regret rate for those having surgery from >2001-2010 is only 0.3%. Dr. Dhejne’s work shows that outcomes for transgender surgery have improved tremendously in the past 30 years
Niether of those refute the statement that "subsequent psycho-social adjustments were no better than those who didn’t have the surgery.”
>>71866234
>I'm glad you admitted not doing your research. It really wasn't hard to find. You got some reading to do.
Ignoring the fact that Yokota Y, et all, WAS ABLE to accurately estimate which brain was which.
Ignoring the other gray matter study I gave.
A single piece of research over gray matter does not at all discount the dozen other sexually dimorphic areas I have given evidence for:
a few
>Structural Hemispheric and Lobar Connectivity
>Hypothalamus structure and activation
>Cortical Thickness
>Differences in Limbic nucleus
>Callosal Shapes
You are decent at insults, shit at debating.
>>71866389
>muh projecting
>>71866194
>>71866194
>context
If you think people can decipher where your quotation begins and ends without any fucking indication then you are retarded
""""""""""" here these are quotation marks use them next time I have extra
>>71865437
In hind sight I should have just said I was a tranny. It's caused a lot of misunderstandings and shit-posts in this thread.
>>71865703
*other peoples children
>>71866041
>caught committing fraud and is now out of the APA and AMA.
Citation needed.
>>71866161
So has anyone done an experiment equivalent to:
1.) Scan a bunch of peoples' brains
2.) Wait an indeterminate amount of time
2.) scan their brains again. See if any are transgender now, see how those individuals differ from how they were previously, if at all.
Obviously this would be difficult (and expensive) if it was just done to look for transgenders, but it could be tacked onto another study.
Also, just a question. Is there evidence that these differences in brain morphology are causing the transgenderism, or is it just "we saw these differences in these types of individuals?"
>>71866564
A single, because I gave you one. Because all you read is your Tumblr JPEG image. There's a ton of them. Your stuff from the 90s isn't worth shit. Also, gray matter is a result of HRT. http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/jsm.12491/abstract
Keep trying with your papers from before there was any scientific method. Haha!
>>71866664
Fuck off and commit suicide already, fagot.
>>71866807
Tumblr images come from google faggot.
Ignoring what I said before about gray matter being such a fractional portion of this discussion:
A single piece of research over gray matter does not at all discount the dozen other sexually dimorphic areas I have given evidence for:
a few
>Structural Hemispheric and Lobar Connectivity
>Hypothalamus structure and activation
>Cortical Thickness
>Differences in Limbic nucleus
>Callosal Shapes
>>71866761
You should have just called yourself a faggot who likes to pretend he is a woman, most accurate desu
>>71866879
Hahaha! Gray matter is the most significant one between men and women. And it took me half a minute to find a dozen articles saying you're wrong. http://www.psyneuen-journal.com/article/S0306-4530%2811%2900374-X/abstract
>>71866966
So a really long winded version of the word "tranny" then?
>desu
Are you a weaboo?
>>71866761
Dude why do you care so much, can't you just let the 'I wanna be a girl feelings go?'
>>71867073
>are you a weeaboo?
>what are word filters
Did you have to take a step out of your safe space to visit? Have fun!
>>71867244
Oh, what was the original word you were trying to use then?
>>71866802
Would be a cool experiment to do but since like .3% of the population is transgender you would need a sample size in the thousands to be able to have a good sample when you measure them later.
>Also, just a question. Is there evidence that these differences in brain morphology are causing the transgenderism, or is it just "we saw these differences in these types of individuals?"
It's a "we saw these differences in these types of individuals". But transgender people claim they feel they are born into the wrong sex. Then we look at their brain and find:
>Structural Hemispheric and Lobar Connectivity
>Hypothalamus structure and activation
>Cortical Thickness
>Differences in Limbic nucleus
>Callosal Shapes
That either don't match with their birth sex, or occupy an intermediary position. The limbic region and hypothalamus together are core parts of the instinctual behaviors in animals and endocrine control.
But I do think it gives much more credibility to the feelings transgender people have. Thought experiment:
>If someone constantly felt like they were on fire and we looked at their brain and found a condition where it was increased temperature, it would be reasonable to conclude their feelings are not a delusion but supported by reality.
>If someone constantly felt their vision was messing up and we found damage to their occiptal lobe, it would be reasonable to conclude their feelings are not delusion but supported by reality.
>If someone feels they are the other sex their whole life and then when we look at their brain we find patterns that match what they say they feel, it would be reasonable to conclude their feelings are reality.
>If someone is schizophrenic and likes to talk to a Lizardman, when we look at their brain we find chemical levels off balance that are creating the setting for their delusions. There is no nothing to suggest their EXPERIENCE is in parallel with their biological state.
Transgender people have a gravity to their claim
>>71865784
>This research team was able to guess with 74% accuracy whether the MRI was Male, Female, Transmale, or Transwoman
Not double blind. Small sample size. Into the trash it goes.
>>71867019
You know that article you just cited I have cited about 4-5 times in this thread?
KEK
>>71849089
Kek.
You heard the leaf, OP, whip em out.
>>71867408
That wasn't even the goal of their research though. It was just to see if the could observe differences. That part is literally just an interesting fact about their research.
>the shapes of the brains in the transsexuals strongly reflected their gender, and not their biological sex.
You guys are ignorant niggers.
