Hey /pol/, I've recently become a born again christian, but I don't know what to do, my parents weren't very religious and they never really taught me how to be religious, I was wondering if you could give me advice
do a barrel roll
Read Fear and Trembling by Kierkegaard
and welcome. Its not going to be easy but stick with us.
>>69409944
He built the railroads for your sins.
>>69409944
Read Ehrman's "Misquoting Jesus" to start. It will prevent you from misunderstanding who Jesus was. You will also be able to converse in sophisticated discussions about the NT after you do. And you will be able to better understand the NT as you read it.
>>69409944
find a bible, preferably KJV. read it.
>>69410241
Should I read the old testament?
Be upfront and don't be afraid. The Bible says that if you're scolded/ mocked for your faith you will receive many blessings in Heaven. Give it a go. It's not like you're telling them you're a scientologist lol.
>>69409944
Congrats.
My advice is to take advantage of Christianity's entire 2,000 year-old tradition, not just the last 500 or so years. By that, I mean that when you look for reading material or inspirational Christian leaders, don't be afraid to consider great pre-Reformation thinkers, like Thomas Aquinas and Augustine. Too many Christians neglect their history, and it's a great loss.
>>69410783
It's not that, It's just that I'm trying to be a Christian but I don't know how
>>69409944
>Do your best
>Try to help others when you can
>Read the scriptures
There's much to discuss about the scriptures here as well, and different Christians have different opinions.
It's best to talk about it, ask questions and weigh the different opinions and DEFINITELY read the scriptures yourself.
>>69411060
can it gypsy
Read the Bible and abstain from sin, you'll learn a lot and forge a spiritual path towards Jesus Christ. You will become more discipline and more alert, drop masturbation as it weakens your body and mind in excess.
>>69409944
You should seek council in the Bread Pill Reading List
>>69411109
Seriously, what do you want to know?
>>69410490
Of course. But be smart about it (i.e., don't start at Genesis 1 and try to read straight through to Malachi). Familiarize yourself with the genres and themes of the different sections of the OT, and you'll be able to put the New Testament in its proper context just fine.
>>69411480
This
The Psalms and stories about David teach you a lot.
King David isn't just about a boy who beat a giant.
Later, when he becomes King he goes through some wild shit.
>>69411297
counsel*
>>69411297
I heartily second this list.
>>69409944
Congratulations anon, I am a born-again too, just trust in Jesus, remember you are giving yourself for his kingdom, make connections with other Christians as well.
Born again Christian, the worst of regions nutjobs aside crazed muzzies. Is your life so devoid of any real meaning? Do you have nothing of substance in your life? Are you so desperate to fill a void in yourself that you would even be willing to fill it with bullshit? This is lunacy. There is no such thing as a born again who is even remotely tolerable.
No I don't wear a fedora. I'm not a edgy teen. I'm just not a moron. Something bad happened to you to make you like this.
>>69411423
first off, how am I supposed to pray? are there certain rules to it?
second off, how do I join a church and how am I supposed to know which sect is right for me?
third off, I had an edgy phase as a teen, is blasphemy forgivable if you repent?
finally, Is it a sin to smoke marijuana on occasion?
>>69409944
Start a bible study plan. Preferably one that connects the meaning of verses together thematically, and not just chunk straight through it. I recommend
biblestudytools.com
Start visiting a church. I personally am a Baptist, but visit one you feel comfortable being part of the congregation with.
Listen to the message carefully and see if it corroborates with what you read in the Bible. A good church will have Jesus Christ as it's focus and pillar of strength, and remember this so that you don't get tricked by wolves in sheep's clothing.
>>69410241
Ehrman is the NDT of New Testament scholarism.
AKA MEME SCHOLAR
AKA: Be edgey as fuck to sell books to teenagers.
don't waste time on Ehrman.
So this is where all the fun people are!
>>69410223
Lol.
He kinda looks like Roman Reigns
>>69410490
Just FYI Ehrman is a former Christian agnostic who says his research led him to REJECT christianity.
I wouldn't read his stuff until your faith is stronger.
If you do keep his history in mind. He is pushing an agenda and the rules he uses for evaluating text authenticity are man-made.
>>69410991
1) Read Bible
2) Pray
3) Follow Jesus, both his actions and his Spirit
No non-Christian will understand what that last part means.
>>69411790
Dude, seriously? You don't need religion to be a decent person. Look at the problems caused by religion. Why do you need to seek out which fairy you should follow? Be better my friend
>>69409944
Get a good annotated study bible.
Everything in the bible makes perfect sense when properly explained. Stock atheist arguments are literally the moron who refuses to learn Algebra because he can't understand what a variable is.
>>69409944
All roads lead to Rome, OP.
Hail, brother. I recommend Pastor Anderson. I'd say he's on target on about 99% of Christian doctrine. You can also put them on your iPod for daily listening during your commute. I've learned so much from him. I also recommend actually reading the Bible, too. Start with the New Testament.
https://www.youtube.com/user/sanderson1611/videos
https://www.youtube.com/user/sanderson1611/videos
>>69409944
Congrats, buddy.
>>69411790
>how am I supposed to pray
I don't think I can tell you that, but Jesus emphasizes how you shouldn't pray in front of other people IF YOU CAN HELP IT.
It's best to pray alone, by yourself, between you and God.
Just do whatever feels right to you man. Spend time meditating on God, ask the Holy Spirit for guidance, etc
>How do I join a church
I still haven't found a good Church, I can't help you here
>Is it forgivable
Everything is forgivable.
>Is it a sin to smoke weed
I don't think so, but I think ultra conservative religious people will say otherwise.
>>69411060
>>69409944
Francis Schaeffer is GOAT
True Spirituality, He Is There and He Is Not Silent, The God Who Is There
All essential books
>>69411790
>first off, how am I supposed to pray? are there certain rules to it?
Matthew 6:5-15
>second off, how do I join a church and how am I supposed to know which sect is right for me?
The Catholic Church is only true Church.
>third off, I had an edgy phase as a teen, is blasphemy forgivable if you repent?
Yes.
>finally, Is it a sin to smoke marijuana on occasion?
Illegal drug use is a sin. If it's legally federally and locally where you live...moderation is key. Which is hard with all the loud kids are smoking these days. 1 or 2 puffs is alright I guess.
>>69411790
> how am I supposed to pray?
Talk to God like you would a close friend. No subject is taboo. There is no 'way to pray.' Jesus tells us to pray with the Lords prayer. Instead of asking for things, Jesus tells god, 'thy will be done.'
>how do I join a church and how am I supposed to know which sect is right for me?
One that is biblical. The more you know the Bible the more you will know which church is right for you. Hint: any church that speaks in tongues (pentecostal) or is ok with gay marriage etc are not biblical churches. Try Lutheran, Reformed, etc. Church of the Nazarene etc are Arminian not Calvinist so they believe men are responsible for salvation, not God. In other words, they are not biblical.
>I had an edgy phase as a teen, is blasphemy forgivable if you repent?
Repentance is a change of mind about Christ. You have already repented, so all your sins past and future have been forgiven. God will work in you to transform your life. You don't need to worry about that part. Remove yourself from sin and things that lead to sin. Take every thought captive: in other words thoughts that do not accord with the Bible and what you know of Jesus are to be ignored. Thoughts lead to actions and actions lead to sin. The first step of being a christian is controlling your thought life. That's your goal. You'll get better at it as time goes on.
>Is it a sin to smoke marijuana on occasion?
This is a hard question but Jesus says 'it is not what goes into a man that defiles him, but that which come out of him'
I don't think it is a sin in a vacuum, but I can see how it could become one: if it distracts from your responsibilities, you become addicted to it, you start stealing to support a habit,, etc. In moderation I think all things are fine, though all things are not necessarily beneficial.
>>69411790
>first off, how am I supposed to pray?
A good template for praying is ACTS
A - Adoration. First and foremost recognize God's greatness and glory. You will notice in the Bible that when most people came into close contact with God, the first thing they do is praise him or recognize His power
C - Confession. Confess and repent of any sins you have committed
T - Thanksgiving. Give thanks to God for the blessings he had given you.
S - Supplication. Here you ask God for anything you may need. Do note that God already knows what you need. However, telling Him about your tribulations is a way of trusting Him, and he will help you if you trust Him.
Finally, when you finish by saying "In Jesus's name" don't just treat that phrase like a stamp on a card. Recognize that the reason why you can have such a relationship with God in the first place is because of Jesus's sacrifice on the cross.
Hope this helps
>>69412879
Recommended reading: Gospel of St. Luke, Acts of the Apostles, St. Paul's Letter to the Romans, Imitation of Christ by Thomas a Kempis.
Find your local catholic parish and ask about joining RCIA classes.
>>69409944
http://pastebin.com/xMQ9wAwW
I would suggest working your way through studying the bible and putting sin out of your life and praying always for yourself and for others.
Witness to others and become diligent in our Lord and King Jesus Christ.
>>69411723
>that pic
Ave Maria
>>69412879
wrong. the catholic church is a corruption of the Word of God.
Catholics decieve people by telling them that they need man, in order to contact God and be forgived by him. Jesus died for our sins so that we may have eternal life. "No one goes to the father except through me"
Not through a pope, not through some man who sits blindly in a booth that you confess to. Not through man. Only through JESUS.
Catholicism is NOT the true church. It is a man made corruption of it, so that certain men may obtain power.
>>69412131
So not believing in made up fairy tales written by Shepards in the Bronze Age who though the earth was flat makes me a fat neck beard fedora tipper? What ever helps you sleep at night friend.
>>69413269
Yes I agree. The Catholic Church has laid up the principles of man instead of God and has not stayed true to the Love and Truth of the Living Word, the Living God our Savior.
There are some who are in the Church who are saved but many are deceived by a false doctrine that leads away from Christs teachings and the teachings of his Apostles.
>>69413269
>Christ literally charges his disciples with going forth and forgiving sins
>priests are successors to the disciples, and their mission becomes their own
>Paul states to confess your sins to one another
>there is no one better to confess your sins to than a priest, for they are acting on behalf of Christ
Protestant pls go
>>69413341
If you actually read the Bible instead of your fedora websites you would begin to see there is no possible way that it is made up by man. It explains the human condition perfectly and gives the perfect way out of it.
Does that mean there are no flaws? I don't know. But I do know when the dinosaurs lived is irrelevant. The bible is a history book, but it's one that deals with the history of God and Man.
>>69412232
If not religion, then the state and if neither follow yourself. When others condemn you, take another step forward and soon the beach is far behind you, your footsteps away from shore.
>>69409944
My advice.
Find a better crutch to guide your life, if your feeling particularly courageous you could make your own path and decide between right and wrong. Don't follow the weak into a mental shit hole, its not easy but its not too late.
>>69413269
Yes, Catholicism is the one that doesn't make sense. All others though...
Insults aside, what is appeal, or need to be a part of a religion? I'd like to hear reasons from someone on the inside.
>>69413755
>forgiving sins by spreading the gospel
>all believers in Christ are disciples of Christ
>Why do you need a priest to do this?
>All believers are of the family of Christ. It doesn't need to be a priest.
>>69413269
Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I send you.” And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.”
John 20:21-23
How much more straight forward can Our Lord be?
>>69409944
All of the advice you could POSSIBLY need will be covered in a sermon by /pol/'s BASED Pastor.
Pastor Steven Anderson.
https://www.youtube.com/user/sanderson1611
>>69410359
This. I actually got it on Audible and am listening to it. Highly enlightening. If there are any non-believers seeing this, you owe it to yourself to listen to it as well. It won't change your mind but you will get a healthy perspective.
>>69411790
Prayer works pretty much like you see in media. I usually just quiet myself, fold my hands, and start praying. Different denominations have different traditions and forms of prayer that you can take advantage of, and those can be fruitful too, but as long as you are communicating with God nobody will fault you for how you pray.
As for which denomination (which is generally a better word than "sect") to join, I can't help but recommend the Catholic Church, which adheres to both Scripture and the Christian Tradition. Joining is as easy as going to a mass and sticking around afterwards to introduce yourself to the priest (they usually stand at the door and visit with everyone on their way out). Because the Catholic Church is organized, there will be an established program (called RCIA) to learn and join the faith. I joined the Church this way, and it's been great.
Every sin is forgivable for those who repent.
I don't think the act of smoking marijuana is a sin in itself, but it might involve another sin, so I won't rule either way on this one.
>>69411884
This. He is a very disingenuous debater who only wants to rake in money from other apostates. He does it to sell more stuff.
>>69414261
Fuck off you papist faggot.
How do you people manage to get EVERYTHING about Christianity wrong?
HERETICAL CHURCH ENDS WHEN!?
>>69412470
I like these answers.
>>69412409
He teaches antinominanism and 3rd century heresy that Jesus went to Hell.
>>69412409
Came here to say this.
Amen brother!
>>69413758
I know plenty about the bible. I'm Italian, went to church, catholic school, even have a cardinal in the family. I'm 32 years old and lost belief as soon as I reached the age of reasoning. Do you know why the bible was written?
I'm not an atheist, I'm agnostic. But what I do know is that organized religion was and always will be a tool of control. It's inherently corrupt.
Is the appeal that you belong to something?
>>69414524
Uhhhh hey fag, Jesus did go to hell for 3 days? Wtf is wrong with you.
Also antinomianism is just faith through salvation of not of works... like the bible says OVER AND OVER.
FUCK OFF.
>>69414384
You're welcome to come back in communion with Christ's church at any time. The doors of mercy and forgiveness never close in God's heart, if you just confess your sins and strive to live in the church Christ intended.
>>69414133
He is a bad preacher. See John Piper, John MacArthur, Paul Washer and some of the old but gold Puritan preachers like Jonathan Edwards and CH Spurgeon.
>>69414261
Every sin is forgivable but we are commanded to go out and sin no more. We are also told not to hide our light from others but to show it.
>>69413758
Also, what is a fedora website?
>>69414715
I am saved through grace by FAITH if my father the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
I hope one day you can become of God's children.
Until then, you are on a path straight to hell.
>>69414524
Jesus did go to hell though. He died for our sins but Hell/Hades/Sheol could not keep him because he lived a sinless life and is the only begotten Son of God.
>>69414739
>2016
>giving this advice
Fuck off.
>>69411777
This and saged
How does one mans loss of character make relevance to a poltics boards?
>>69413755
Thank you based anon.
>>69414713
That language obviously shows an unregenerate soul.
We are justified by faith. Do you understand that? But a person who declares himself to be Christian but has no works is not saved (see James 2). I hold to the Protestant doctrine of sola fide but antinomianism is the extreme of that doctrine.
>>69414715
> Christ's church
This is what happens you never research any opposing arguments to your own beliefs.
The church of Rome is an apostate church that spews heresy.
> But what I do know is that organized religion was and always will be a tool of control. It's inherently corrupt.
The Roman system is not the way the Bible said the government of the church should function !!!
The church is to be run by a plurality of elders for that exact reason to prevent what you mentioned.
>>69409944
>born again christian
you fucking faggots are the cancer that is killing the faith
fucking crucify yourself
>>69414875
Proof?
>>69411777
Your obviously disgruntled at your parents. Stop projecting.
>>69414984
>Takes James 2 WAY out of context
>calls other unregenerate
>doesn't believe the bible literally
Welp..
>>69414693
The appeal is that it's true.
>>69414981
That was a terrible explanation.
>>69413755
>there is no one better to confess your sins to than a priest, for they are acting on behalf of Christ
un-biblical doctrine.
>>69415096
Ephesians 4:8–10 and 1 Peter 3:18–20.
>>69415104
I affirm young earth creationism and all the Bible. James 2 is all about works being evidence of regeneration.
>>69414009
>exactly
>no man before or after Jesus has ever been given the authority to forgive of sins
>no man before or after Jesus has ever been named The Son of God
>John 14:6 "Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."
>Not a pope, a cardinal, a priest. No other man. It's pretty straight forward
>Catholics also worship and praise Mary, the mother of Jesus, as if she was a God herself
>This is wrong clearly as stated by God in scripture.
>I can provide easy examples from scripture to further prove my point.
>Jesus is Love and saved me from my meth addiction, was there for me when i should have died by another man's hand or by my foolish choices. He is still there for me to this day. A man like me.....unbelievable. Only love can be so powerful.
>>69409944
OP, give up, it is a lie. You have invested your time and energy in a lie.
>>69411777
>Is your life so devoid of any real meaning?
All mens lives are devoid of meaning.
It amazes me that so many people spout off like you yet are so uninformed on even the most basic of existential philosophy.
>>69415282
Indeed. The Church is supposed to be the ideal and be a unwelcome place for a sinner to be. A conversion is a healing of our sins. To cease from sin.
>>69411060
Tip
>>69415333
Awesome.
>>69415281
Your second citation is irrelevant.
In Ephesians 4:9 it means he descended into death/tomb (Ps. 63:9-10)
>>69411777
It is because the Bible and the Father and the Holy Spirit have witnessed to us that we believe in Him.
Seek and you shall find.
http://pastebin.com/xMQ9wAwW
>>69415355
Oh how many times I have heard this from atheists.
They never sit down to challenge me on my beliefs it justs:
> Bible is corrupted
> God doesn't exist
> Jesus didn't rise from the dead
> Christianity is stupid
But they only drop these statements but never stand to defend them.
>>69415096
Disgruntled at my parents? I'm not the one seeking an imaginary friend. Religious people shouldn't be involved in politics. Also, this isn't politics.
>>69415595
Okay. So what is your objection with the first?
>>69415759
Blah blah rhetoric all day long. First of all you were never Christian.
Romanism != Christianity
>>69414984
>The Bible says the Church is to be run by a plurality of elders
>The RCC governance is not Biblical
Have you considered the fact that the Catholic Church is run by a plurality of elders (bishops, first among whom is the Pope)?
>>69413758
Not made up by men? Are you serious?
>>69415759
It is the duty of all citizens to be involved in the politics of their country.
>>69410954
I agree. I like the part where all of the Church Fathers aren't into Sola Scriptura and believe in things contrary to Protestant doctrines.
>>69415813
That he didn't go to Hell. He tells to robber he will be with him in heaven with the Father.
Jesus didn't deserve death nor the cruel punishment so it was injust enough.
Protestants explain,
The first clear attitude to emerge on the relation between Scripture, tradition and the church was the coincidence view: that the teaching of the church, Scripture and tradition coincide. Apostolic tradition is authoritative but does not differ in content from the Scriptures. The teaching of the church is likewise authoritative but is only the proclamation of the apostolic message found in Scripture and tradition. The classical embodiment of the coincidence view is found in the writings of Irenaeus and Tertullian.
These both reject the Gnostic claims to a secret tradition supplementing Scripture. Apostolic tradition does not add to Scripture but is evidence of how it is correctly to be interpreted. This tradition is found in those churches which were founded by the apostles, who taught men whose successors teach today. These apostolic churches agree as to the content of the Christian message, in marked contrast to the variations among the heretics. It is important to note that it is the church which is the custodian of Scripture and tradition and which has the authentic apostolic message. There was no question of appealing to Scripture or tradition against the church. This is partly because the apostolic tradition was found in the church but not just for this reason: the Holy Spirit preserves the church from error and leads her into the truth. The real concern of Irenaeus and Tertullian was not with the relation between Scripture and tradition but with the identity of ecclesiastical with apostolic teaching. Any exposition of their teaching on Scripture and tradition which fails to show this is to that extent defective. (A.N.S. Lane, “Scripture, Tradition and Church: An Historical Survey”, Vox Evangelica, Volume IX – 1975, pp. 39, 40 –)
>>69416093
I see. Well I'll pray about it and see if you are correct with more study.
>>69415586
by all accounts i shouldnt be here today. i fell into a deep life of crime, drugs, selling them and using them. i just wanted to fit in...be cool. i was 13 when i moved to phoenix, im 25 now. the only way i found to fit in in my teens was to be "one of the bad kids". coming from north dakota it was a culture shock to move to a city like phx. further i fell. became involved with a family of hispanics who happen to also be involved with the Sina Loa (spelling?) cartel. moved drugs for them in gas tanks of trucks with 2 tanks. had a walkie talkie to call out people they had a...vested interest in speaking to. oddly enough i ran into most of the people while they were pumping gas, standing outside their car. some by the end of that night never went home. so in desperation i broke free, still owing to this day a small fee of money to the family members but i dropped all of the bad freinds, people. still dont have freinds anymore, its been a few years now. but of course when i broke off, i fell into meth. Satan just couldnt let go of me. More happened. then one day i got arrested and everything changed. I remember the night i got out of jail, i rode my bike to buy some more meth. What happened that night only God can explain. But here I am today clean from meth for a year and 3 months and clean of cannabis for 2 months. Landed a great job, somehow. Now all I need is a girlfriend and the courage to go to church again.
Praise God. :)
>>69415894
And the Pope's authority as temporal head of the church, Christ's number 2, is derived from the first holder of the office, St. Peter, being Christ's first number 2, and the rock on which the church was to be built. As shown in Acts of the Apostles, Peter held a position of greater responsibility and leadership over the other apostles, and his word carried with it more weight.
>>69415894
Brother. The Pope considers himself the vicar of Christ. Pontiff Maximus. Which was a pagan term referring to pagan priests that meant the bridge of two worlds.
Tertullian used it as an insult towards the bishop of Rome in the 3rd century. The Pope speaks infallible on the matter of doctrine so he's decree overrides what everyone else says.
>>69414984
But the protest communities don't have elders or any authoritative leadership. If you don't like what your community teaches, you just drive down the street and join another one.
>>69409944
the book you just said you believe is the literal truth will tell you what the fuck you should do, i suggest you read it before you claim to believe it.
>>69414933
Well said. You must be a fat neck beard fedora tipper, like me apparently. This is some cringey stuff.
>>69416211
You mean like the Talmud which has so completely rotted, corrupted and replaced the Word which it claims to interpret?
>>69406908
>>69406908
>>69406908
SOROS SURGING
>SOROS SURGING
SOROS SURGING
>SOROS SURGING
SOROS SURGING
>SOROS SURGING
>>69416283
Too bad, Tertullian believed in
a)The Real Presence
b)The authority of Tradition
c)Offering eucharist for the dead
>>69409944
http://www.catholic.com/
They have the answers.
4+4chan /christian/ is also good
>>69416400
I'm just stating my favorite part of the theology of the Church Fathers overall
>>69416360
>Tradition that made the NT
>Corrupted like the Talmud
>>69416563
Tradition did not make the NT.
>>69409944
Get involved in a Christian community like a church where you can ask a pastor tough questions. Remember the best commentary on the bible is the bible itself. I would reccomend reading 7 Days that Divide the World if you get hung up on creationism. Welcome to the club. I will keep you in my prayers.
P.s ESV is the most literal and academic translation of the bible.
>>69416605
You mean it magically appeared?
>>69415375
I love when religious people try to sound intelligent. Religion is anti-intelligence but you will never be convinced otherwise.
>>69416215
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VzjapPSj8mQ
Please watch this.
>>69416678
You know exactly how it came to be. Through the Holy Spirit.
>>69416283
Now did Tertullian use the term to insult the office of the Pope, or the holder of it?
>>69416782
Isn't that the same as Tradition?
>>69416299
They do so stop lying. If you find that the church you go to doesn't follow the word of God yes you can find one that does.
Some Protestant churches might have a different kind of polity.
>>69416412
Yes. A lot of the church fathers had conflicting ideas.
>>69416418
Terrible board run by a schizo Roman Catholic admin.
>>69416625
ESV is great but don't forget the KJV.
>>69416813
Insulted the Roman bishop and the fact that he had exalted himself as chief over all bishops.
>>69416211
What? Do you not understand Sola Scriptura?
>>69416938
Tradition is the beliefs and mandates of man.
Revelation and the Gospels have prophecy and teachings of God, the rest is of the Apostles of Christ who he entrusted to minister to His Church. Which the Holy Spirit also worked through.
Have you not read the NT or even the OT?
>>69416938
The early Christian church decided upon the canon of the NT. But to assume that the church then is the same church of Rome is a blatant lie.
>>69417064
But the Bible is the only authority I thought?
>>69417296
Yes. Authority in matters of doctrine and belief. See 2 Timothy 3:15-17.
>>69417188
Did Sola Scriptura enables Tradition to be the guide to Scripture and how it is to be interpreted?
Oh right, of course not. If this is the case, Tradition itself is no longer subservient to Scripture!
This is why ANS Lane who is a Reformed Protestant himself later notes how the Coincidence view of the Early Church differs from Sola Scriptura.
>>69417064
They have differing ideas but they agree on core issues such as the Eucharist. They all affirm it to be the body and blood of Christ.
Protestrants can't even agree on its nature!
>>69417284
My point is that they are in opposition to the Protestants.
>>69417231
Guess that includes the teachings of Jesus which he himself never written down. It was the Apostles that do so after decades.
>>69417499
Did you seriously not read the stuff following the 4 gospels? It interprets the Gospels for everyone.
>>69417435
2 Timothy says Scripture is *useful* to these ends, but it never claims that Scripture is the all-sufficient sole rule of faith.
>>69409944
Read The Way by Josemaría Escrivá. It's 999 points to mediate on that will teach you everything you need to know.
Get yourself a Douay-Rheims bible, btw OP. Most Bibles you get now days follow the Protestant canon, which is Jewish, and not the Catholic canon which is Christian.
>>69417651
Do you doubt Christs trust in his Apostles?
>>69417499
I am struggling to understand you. Please reword your first sentences.
Sola Scriptura is a matter of authority not interpretation.
> They have differing ideas but they agree on core issues such as the Eucharist. They all affirm it to be the body and blood of Christ.
There were four views of the Eucharist in the early church. In his magnum opus, History of the Christian Church, historian Philip Schaff (Philip Schaff, History of the Christian Church, Volume 2, [Hendrickson Publishers, 2010], pp. 241-245; Philip Schaff, History of the Christian Church, Volume 3, [Hendrickson Publishers, 2010], pp. 494-500) documents the four views the early church held in regards to the way in which Christ was associated with the bread and wine.
You had the
(1) mystical view of Ignatius, Justin Martyr, Irenaeus and Cyril of Jerusalem which said the body and blood of Jesus are mystically in union with the elements leading to a sort of repetition of the incarnation, though no change in substance actually takes place as in later Romanism;
(2) the symbolic view of Tertullian, Cyprian, Eusebius, Gregory Nazianzen, Macarius the Elder, Theodoret, Augustine and Gelasius which said the Eucharist symbolizes the body and blood of Jesus and is a commemoration, not Rome’s literalistic transubstantiation;
(3) the allegorical or spiritual view of Clement of Alexandria, Origen and Athanasius which said the believer receives the spiritual but not physical blood and life of Jesus at Mass; and
(4) the literalistic view of Hilary, Ambrose and Gaudentius which affirmed the bread and wine as being the literal transformed body and blood of Jesus which is basically in line with the modern Roman Catholic system. The Roman view is in the minority, while the symbolic and mystical views seem to be the most primitive and popular.
>>69417435
But everyone has different doctrine and different beliefs based on their personal interpretation.
It doesn't say "only" scripture.
Scripture for Paul is the Old Testament. It can't refer to our Bible because the canon of the Bible wasn't defined till hundreds of years after Paul wrote his letters.
>>69411884
>>69414383
>implying you edgemasters have ever even read his books
shameful
>>69417779
Wow that's hilarious. Considering when St. Jerome was tasked with translating the Bible into Latin (the Vulgate which was the official translation of the Vatican) he translated only 66 books.
Or Pope Gregory the Great who supported 66 books in the Bible.
> which later came to be called the Gallican version. He also appears to have undertaken further new translations into Latin from the Hexaplar Septuagint column for other books. But from 390 to 405, Jerome translated anew from the Hebrew all 39 books in the Hebrew Bible, including a further version of the Psalms. This new translation of the Psalms was labelled by him as "iuxta Hebraeos" (i.e. "close to the Hebrews", "immediately following the Hebrews"), and was commonly found in the Vulgate, until it was widely replaced by his Gallican psalms beginning in the 9th century.
>>69417884
> But everyone has different doctrine and different beliefs based on their personal interpretation.
Yes and that's why we go back to scripture to find who has the more accurate belief.
>>69417938
I have seen a fair share of his books. You should read Misquoting Truth as a response to Ehrman.
>>69418029
The Vulgate has all of the books, bro.
Jerome changed his mind.
>>69417779
I read the NT first through that Bible and I found the commentary useless and misleading.
Plus the translation errors are numerous. Buy a concordance and a KJV bible. Or just use the blue letter bible app and read any bible version with concordance access. The only reason I recommend the KJV is because its errors are well known and understood.
>>69417938
I have a BA degree in Religious Studies. I've read Bart Meme Ehrman more than you
>>69418135
>Everyone interprets Scripture differently
>The solution? Interpret Scripture to decide who is best at interpreting Scripture
You don't see a problem with this?
>>69417858
Of course Schaff himself says that Tertullian isn't a merely "symbolic" and can be materialistic!
He even notes how Augustine whilst being close to the Reformed still believed that the body and blood of Christ is eaten in the forms of bread and wine in the Eucharist.
Schaff himself explains the use of 'figurative' language in reference to the Eucharist here,
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=KgGRjX3i7LwC&pg=PR39&dq=philip+schaff+cyril+eucharist&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CB8Q6AEwAGoVChMIwKie84HgyAIVAl0aCh3VUwp-#v=onepage&q=philip%20schaff%20cyril%20eucharist&f=false
What Schaff had explained here, now becomes the paradigm of the modern academic view of the Church Fathers' consensus on the Eucharist.
As for example,
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=-309AgAAQBAJ&pg=PA46&dq=tertullian+eucharist&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjStsib9unLAhVIHxoKHWwLCSYQ6AEIOTAF#v=onepage&q=tertullian%20eucharist&f=false
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=98Aefvi_MTAC&printsec=frontcover&dq=william+crockett+eucharist&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjf1MXS-enLAhWBWxoKHT7KAk8Q6AEIHDAA#v=onepage&q=william%20crockett%20eucharist&f=false
>>69418350
He is clinging to a clerical authority which Christ hated.
>>69418029
Except of course, Augustine accepted the Deuterocanon, alongside many others. The issue was only formally closed by Catholicism, no one else bothered much.
This is also why modern views of the Canon tend to see it as fluid, even amongst the Jews.
>>69410991
Church man, talk to a pastor/priest, they'll help you out
>>69417064
>Terrible board run by a schizo Roman Catholic admin.
But the board owner isn't Catholic.
Alright well I'm going to bed. Christ, the Father and the Holy Spirit be with you all. We may be divided in truth but we all at least accept our King and Lord is Christ.
http://pastebin.com/xMQ9wAwW - Just a resource. Do with it what you will.
>>69409944
First step which I'm assuming you did was to accept Jesus as your savior in your heart and proclaim it with your mouth.
Second step is studying who Jesus and God are. I suggest the New Testament with Matt Mark Luke John Acts Romans Revelations in no particular order as long as you do Revelations last. That part is a horror novel.
KJV is great. Shakespere is rumored to have helped write it.
The Old Testament shows Gods strength and fury while still preserving the merciful theme. The New Testament actually has Jesus at the center of attention with God as almost a background influence more than an actual character. In the Old Testament God is a living breathing force of rage, passion, love, mercy, and loyalty to his promises. It's all a great read.
In tandem with reading a bit I'd start talking to God and Jesus, feeling the differences when you address one or the other. To me Jesus is a friend, almost a brother but definitely a leader. God is a father.
Just remember: if you don't sin then Jesus died for nothing
>>69418350
No we use our God given faculties to decide who has the more biblical interpretation.
Also you don't solve the problem completely by having ecumenical councils since after Trent you had bishops with different interpretations of the proceedings.
>>69418342
Where from?
>>69418183
But mate my point is that St Jerome didn't consider the other books as worth translating especially if the Pope had commanded him to translate scripture. My point was he didn't believe in the canon of Rome today.
>>69418617
Commenting on Tertullian’s use of “figure” here, William Webster aptly observes, “Some theologians have claimed that the ancient usage of the words ‘figure’ and ‘represent’ suggested that the symbols in some mysterious way became what they symbolized. But Tertullian uses the word ‘represent’ in a number of other places where the word carries a figurative meaning. For example, in Against Marcion 4.40 he says ‘He represents the bleeding condition of his flesh under the metaphor of garments dyed in red” (William Webster, The Church of Rome at the Bar of History, [The Banner of Truth Trust, 1995], p. 119). Thus, we see justification for taking Tertullian’s remarks as meaning the bread and wine represent the body and blood of Jesus as figures in a metaphorical way.
1/2
>>69418742
That's my point. There really wasn't a lot of coherence among them. Also what denomination are you?
>>69419608
Moreover, in interpreting John 6 Tertullian refutes the idea that Jesus was speaking literally about the Jews eating His flesh contra Rome: “Now, because they thought His discourse was harsh and intolerable, supposing that He had really and literally enjoined them to eat his flesh, He, with the view of ordering the state of salvation as a spiritual thing, set out with the principle, ‘It is the spirit that quickeneth;’ and then added, ‘The flesh profiteth nothing,’ meaning, of course, to the giving of life. . . . He likewise called His flesh by the same appellation; because, too, the Word had become flesh, we ought therefore to desire Him in order that we may have life, and to devour Him with the ear, and to ruminate on Him with the understanding, and to digest Him by faith” (Tertullian, On the Resurrection of the Flesh, xxxvii). No amount of whitewashing can erase the fact that Tertullian here rejects transubstantiation and affirms that to eat Christ’s body and drink His blood is a metaphorical and symbolic thing where we desire, hear, and have faith in him.
2/2
>>69419441
t. Martin Luther
1. Go to church.
2. Don't be a dick.
>>69419740
Literally the last half of the bible summed up in 2 points, well done anon.
>>69409944
I recommend a Reformed church. Plenty of great confessional and conservative Anglican churches. Avoid ones with female priests and LGBT friendly environments.
Or find a Presbyterian one.
>>69419844
Depends on your personality but for the most part this roo' aint posting poo.
>>69419844
presbyterians are reformed
>>69418342
I have a bachelor's in Theology as well, and I can confirm that Bart Erhman is meme-tier shit.
>>69420105
Doctorates in female studies and I can confirm that Bart Erhman is amazing.
>>69411060
It is actually embedded in human DNA to have faith in something. We evolved with it
I was raised Catholic but I strayed into le edgy tip fedora godlessness. You guys make Christianity seem so tempting but I know I wouldn't be able to convince myself to believe in it.
>>69420155
Kek.
>>69420323
Hey man, we all walk our own paths in this world. I believe God has a plan for you and is just waiting for the perfect time to show you his grace in a way that resonates with your mind.
>protty speak
Don't dew it.
>>69419608
William Webster is not a valid academic source.
Real scholars such as Spinks who cites the reknowned Paul Bradshaw notes that Tertullian's use of certain latin terms such as that which is commonly translated as "represent" actually means "to manifest". So Tertullian's Eucharistic view is said to be the "manifestation" of the Body and Blood of Christ, which Spinks noted as I had linked.
The same is echoed by JND Kelly and even Schaff himself when he cautions readers not to suppose that Tertullian is strictly figurative.
Tertullian's address of John 6 doesn't refute the notion that he had a realist view of the Eucharist. The main context is regarding the Resurrection of the Flesh.
Also, my point is that the Canon of Scripture wasn't closed. It is fluid which is why the whole "Deuterocanon is not Scripture" argument fails flat on its face. This also raises questions for sola scriptura since its own definition presupposes a complete well defined set of Scriptures, meaning a Closed Canon. But this is not the case at all when we turn back the clock.
>>69419844
Puppet scum
>>69414693
>>69414799
>>69415919
>this samefagging
You realise there are user IDs right?
>>69410088
>not Either/Or
>>69421435
>TFW Kierkegaard's soteriology is incompatible with Sola Fide
Feels good
>>69416689
>WAAAHHH MY BROTHER DIED.
>WAAAAAHHHH GOD DOESN'T EXIST.
>WAAAAAHHHHHH RELIGION AND RELIGIOUS PEOPLE ARE DUMB.
>>>/r/Atheism
i started going to church in hopes of meeting a girl there, its not working, church is so goddamn cliquey its unreal
