Europe was nearly conquered and enslaved multiple times by Muslims. What has Europe done to the Middle East that could possibly compare?
muh iraq muh sykes picot muh israel
>>56762356
Drop Christianity/atheism and embrace our native, pagan spirituality.
>>56762356
muh crusades
muh drone strikes
muh million Iraqis
>>56762522
Yes, exactly. I concur.
Israel
We took the good land for ourselves and forced them to rot in the desert.
>>56762680
/thread
>>56762356
>enslaved
The Muslim world was actually fairly tolerant compared to other contemporary powers, at least for a while. In fact much of their early conquests of Byzantine controlled areas was facilitated by support from Christian sects that preferred paying a Muslim tax to being persecuted by the Orthodox Church as heretics.
>>56762356
shut the fuck up shitlord
you're on the wrong side of history
>>56762604
Nah, in my neck of the woods paganism means tripping balls in a jungle while the shaman roots through your wallet. Once you throw up, it gets better. But then you realize he left with your girlfriend and your pants, and you've forgotten how to words...
I'm sorry, what was the question?
>>56762904
Not to mention the top photo occurred during the low middle ages, in the years after the fall of Rome. There weren't really consolidated states in those areas, just disparate groups of barbarians pushed in by the Mongols. Everybody was fighting everybody for territory. The bottom pic depicts battles that happened in the High Middle ages, when things were much more settled
>>56762904
Dude, I know. Trust me, I do. Some Caliphates were nicer. But I'm saying they enslaved Slavs, engaged in wider European slavery, and reached the gates of Vienna with intent to conquer and convert. What has Europe done to them to compete?
>>56763174
So...in light of a thousand years of conquest, the last few decades make Europe the bad guys?
>>56763427
Well neither are the bad guys is what I'm trying to say. I thought you were trying to demonize Islam and structured my reply with that in mind. The sack of Jerusalem was brutal though, even by standards of the time.
>>56762356
>Europe was nearly conquered and enslaved multiple times by Muslims. What has Europe done to the Middle East that could possibly compare?
Enslaved and conquered the entire world?
>>56763662
Oh yeah, sorry. I just meant to say that in the long term, Muslims have made far more progress into Europe than the other way 'round. I just wanted to know if anyone agreed.
>>56763848
I meant to the Middle East specifically. And don't knock colonialism, it's the only reason either of us exist at all haha
>>56762356
I love how the Northern Crusades arent even mentioned in that pic while every single battle ever fought by muslims is labeled as jihad. I suppose the conquest of the New World (especially Central and South America by the Spanish) would have also been the largest crusade ever
>>56764208
>every battle fought by muslims is labeled as jihad
Isn't that kind of the meaning of jihad?
>>56762356
You are comparing two different things.
You should compare it with the expansion of the Christian religion.
>implying they didnt prosecute the shit out of people that didnt bow tho Christ. i.e. pagans
If you didnt follow their religion you were executed. Literally.
So dont tell me your farts smell like roses Joseph.
For example;
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massacre_of_Verden
4500 people executed because they refused to abandon their germanic paganic religion to accept christianism.
>>56764208
I meant specifically with the Middle East! This always happens, instead of admitting that Muslims have historically had the upper hand in Europe, everyone just mentions other stuff Europe has done.
>>56764465
I was responding to the pic, which is taken from a video on youtube where an elderly man has a 10 minute rant about it
>>56764446
Yes, Religion is bad etc. Those are all very good facts, but I mean something else. Historically, Muslims have conquered, enslaved, and converted more Europeans, than Europeans have Muslims! Do you agree with that?
>>56764589
Oh, my bad. Entschuldigung.
All I am saying is that the Ottomans reached the walls of Vienna. What has the West done that can compare?
>>56762356
Not that I disagree with the general message of the picture, but it's definitely downplaying the crusade battles area.
>>56764878
Yeah, I guess...They were pretty ineffective in the long run though.
Israel on the other hand...
>>56762904
>facilitated by support from Christian sects
Muh Janissaries.
You do realize early Muslim conquest in the east concerning Byzantine lands was perpetrated by the Seljuk and I also assume you realize those 'christian sects' were forced from childhood to become soldiers. There were no fanatical Christians rebelling against other Christians.
>>56765021
Thank you! I mean, the West totally played the Byzantines in the end, but still that was politics! What is your favourite flavour of Ice-Cream?
>>56763662
>The sack of Jerusalem was brutal though, even by standards of the time.
Propaganda, the Muslims used to write about Germans eating children during the night.
The 'sack' was really a liberation. All contemporary scholars of their time who were not Muslim would agree.
>non-Muslims siding with the crusaders
I'm talking eastern scholars with no persuasion one way or the other.
Islam was terrible during the Crusades, both before and after.
The Crusaders did what was necessary, war is never pretty.
Ever read the "Song of Roland"? you should, you will be filled with DEUS VULT.
>>56762356
>What has Europe done to the Middle East that could possibly compare?
pic related
>>56765021
Wasn't referring to janissaries. I was referring to large groups of Christians in the Arabian Peninsula and Northern Africa who were viciously persecuted by the Orthodox Church and the Byzantine empire due to differing beliefs in the trinity. Janissaries didn't even exist at that time.
>>56765169
What are you on about?
>>56765169
By played do you mean sacked for gold and riches? That's one way of putting it I guess
>>56764878
No its not.
Its marked by significance and effect.
And either way the Crusades were in a smaller scope, whereas Arab conquest stretched over a thousand of miles, Christendoms retaliation was only a few hundred at most.
>>56764844
>>56764699
Destroying the Ottoman empire making divisions in a way that ensures conflict between their religious and cultural ways in the process.
All the while installing puppet regimes to further control the region.
Pic obviously related. What the m.e. shouldve been to avoid conflict between the different sects of Islam.
You wont convert muslims. Mainly because its stated that leaving the religion is punishable by death.
But you surely can make the 5 schools of Islam have friction with each other and see them implode.
>>56765373
The Ottoman empire destroyed itself by getting into a war it wasn't prepared for.
>>56765230
Notice how most of the Middle East is grey? Notice how this all happened over the course of a few decades? Notice how more Muslims have entered Europe than the other way around? Notice how Europe never forced conversion to Christianity in the Middle East?
I bet you wish you had lost at Tours
>>56765255
Sorry. My favourite is Hazelnut, what is yours?
>>56765253
>Orthodox Church and the Byzantine empire
>not realizing this would have been before or right after the Schism
You retarded m8?
You do realize there was not enough time for systemic oppression to take place in such remote areas.
Alexius I lived through the Schism.
Arabia, North Africa.
Theres the problem, the Orthodox Christians had no power in these places they had no influence.
The Byzantines didn't even stretch past Medio-Persia much less Arabia.
North Africa, have you ever seen a map?
You also realize Berbers relentlessly assailed any signs of Christianity in North Africa?
>>56765555
>guatemala
I see, it cant communicate in a civilized environment.
If I waved my arms and shouted a bit, would that get the message across?
>>56764699
Europe carved up the near East after the end of WW1 in ways that ignored already existing culture lines to favor themselves. The Balkan wars. The Bosnian genocide... European Christians have wrought plenty of death and destruction on Arab muslims
>>56762925
How's Guatemala like in seasons? Internet access only in cities?
>>55555555
>>56765373
Dude, the Balkans, Byzantium, Greece, and Spain literally had centuries of muslim rule. They conquered so hard they changed the genetics of those countries. You telling me a few decades of dictators are the same thing?
>>56765840
Thinking about moving there cause of impending race war/terrorism/nuclear winter
>>56765255
Sorry. I thought I was replying to someone else and got too lazy to back away. So I brought up ice cream. I apologise.
>>56762356
Middle Eastern culture needs to be stomped out of existence. They had their chance to catch up, and they blew it. They're still running around in the desert, howling at the moon and chopping off heads like a bunch of fucking savages. The rest of the world doesn't have time to wait around for the Arab children to grow up. Lets murder them all in the crib, and move on.
>>56765907
Oh dude, no one would ever bomb us! The bomb would be worth more than the country haha. The capitol has incredible weather, like a permanent spring time. Internet access is OK in the big cities, but not great. Remember that we are Mexico for Mexico, keep your expectations realistic, and it is a beautiful, strange, and unique country.
Still poor and dangerous though.
...but at least we aren't Honduras
>>56765589
Okay Arabian peninsula was a bit of a stretch. I was referring to the area that is now Syria, Iraq, and Palestine. You know the territory lost in the seventh century?
>before the Schism
There was major infighting between Christians long before the East West split
>>56765750
But is it comparable to what Muslims have done to European Christians? If so, how?
we gotta take the garbij out
What, no sacking of Constantinople on that map?
>>56766206
>>56766206
Yeah I've heard it's a beautiful country and the natives living their are pretty peaceful. Is there much crime or drug trade? El Salvador and Honduras are pretty notorious for both desu senpai. Economy is good I imagine, how's the job outlook for an educated American?
>>56766492
Americans might as well be Sun Gods here. You will be able to navigate social strata with ease. Maybe get a job in a private school or a call centre. As for crime and drugs well...being better than average around here is damning with faint praise. Its still about as poor a country as you can find in the hemisphere.
>>56766720
I made a stop in Guatemala on deployment once. The port smelled like poo. At least the pimps shipped hookers to the pier for us.
>>56767053
Sounds about right
>>56766720
>>56766720
Looking at how things are, Guatemala looks to be the diamond surrounded by rocks when it comes to crime. And having a comfy Job while staring out at the view a beautiful country, undisturbed by the prescence of man sounds like something out of a dream. Not to mention there's some nice culture, with it being the birthplace of the Mayans and such, to take in as well. Thanks Guatabro for helping me out. I may visit soon to check out how it is there, sounds like a great country.
>>56767234
Thanks man, I appreciate it! I hope you find what you are looking for. Check out lake Atitlan, lots of ex-pats and scenery out of Jurassic Park. I wish you nothing but the best!
>>56766206
Lel local charter school full of hippies went down to Guatemala to plant trees.
They did say it was nice thb
>>56762356
>New
I don't get this picture. Why are there new and past battles listed? What's happening in Egypt?
*knock knock"
Hello I'd like to spread the good word that Isreal did 911
>>56760640
>>56767572
Just asking who has had better luck invading the other. I say muslim, but if you disagree, expand on that...
>>56767784
I don't know, I'm just asking why they are showing a new Crusade battle in Egypt.
>>56767857
what, you want research and facts? Get outta here! The nerve of some people...
