Would you give up your life of luxury as an earthnoid to join the glorious Principality of Zeon?
>>13976436
Nah fuck that shit im off to Jupiter. To bang some mobile suit strippers.
>working with dirty spacenoid subhmans
No thanks.
>>13976439
Dont do anything Char wouldn't do.
Helium 3 miners pass those girls around like water bottles on the Arch Angel
>>13976456
>sub humans
We are a proud people that will become the Newtype race.
We will inherit the galaxy from the foolish Earthnoids who would rather consume it wastefully and pollute the earth with the refuse
>>13976436
For the last time. Yes.
>>13976480
Amuro was an earthnoid.
>>13976436
>Life of luxury as an earthnoid
Life is only luxurious for the EF and Zeon elite. Honestly I'd probably just end up being beam rifled as a grunt in a Zaku if I joined Zeon.Then again, it's better than being gassed or colony dropped.
>>13976492
Go to Moon Moon and have some cultist orgies.
Awwwwwshit. When I signed up to the fight in the forces of the Principality of Zeon it was all "You'll see interesting Space Ports! You'll meet people. You could be a mechanic for the Zaku!" I said "I don't want to build a Zaku, I want to be a be a pilot!" So the recruiter said, "I'll put that right here in your file and we'll get you trained for that, just sign here. here. and here please." Shiiiit, that motherfucker didn't write anything down but I got shipped off just the same. I sign my papers, and I got on a transport and look at my papers.
No where on these papers did it say "pilot" or even "mechanic", the only word I could see in big black stamp was "infantry". These fucking spaceboys up there have an infantry division. They don't have ground but they manage to have an infantry.
So I went to the CO and I said, "There was a mistake, sir. My recruiter said I would train to become a pilot, sir." And this son of a bitch, this goddamn son of a bitch wearing a long sleeve button up shirt buttoned up to his neck in the middle of July said "We found you wanting, boy. You don't have the newtype tendencies to be a pilot. The Cause needs you to be an infantry man. Zeig Zeon!"
>>13976484
Ofcourse there Newtypes will appear in all different factions
It is our duty to the Glorious Principality of Zeon to locate these Newtypes and bring them into organization.
At the very least Newtype opposition help us isolate the Newtypes within Zeon.
>>13976492
Unfortunately people of esteem within the organization will have to carry themselves as such.
To maintain face we may have to participate in rituals of the decedent past.
Im sure we can agree that many revolutionaries such as the American Founding Fathers still lived relatively simple lives between campaigns.
>>13976436
No.
>>13976436
Yes, where do I sign?
>>13976508
This is Feddie propaganda.
Zeon infantry does not exist.
ESFSIDF plz go.
Why is Zeon so popular
>>13976665
> living in space
> being on the same side as the red comet
> better mobile suits
> better living standards (possibly, depending on where you live on earth)
> better uniforms
> better space food
> possible newtype powers from living in space
> the chance to help fuck over the earthnoids
> did I mention fighting along side the great and powerful Char Aznable?
Why wouldn't it be?
>>13976675
>possible newtype powers from living in space
That's bullshit Amuro was an earthling
>>13976684
weakling bitch used psychoframes to awaken which is the gundam equivalent of doping. Char didnt need to dope.
>>13976675
>>13976691
Char, please stop shitposting on /m/.
>>13976684
The secret of becoming a newtype is in the genes of your parents. Amuro's dad was a Minovsky's follower so he had to travel often from Earth to the space
Same goes to Quess, since her dad is Vice-premier, who is in charge of all the colonial administration
>>13976675
>being on the same side as the red comet
More like being an enemy of the White Devil, do you have a death wish?
>>13976675
Quattro we get it you like Char
>>13976436
Zeons are doodoo heads
>>13976691
Holy shit, stop posting and actually WATCH a Gundam anime, you fucktard redditor.
>>13976749
I've watched more gundam than you've had hot dinners friend, I've also been here since 2009 AND I post on reddit and tumblr
>>13976675
> did I mention fighting along side the great and powerful Char Aznable?
>fighting alongside a petty asshole who'd gladly sacrifice you for to fulfill his selfish grudges is somehow a good thing
Why are Zeonfags so deluded?
>>13976754
>I've watched more gundam than you've had
Then why do you have no fucking clue what you're talking about? You talk about Gundam like a Big Bang Theory character would.
>>13976665
Because they're romanticized as honoraburu freedom fighters while being fashionable like Nazis.
>>13976766
Literal perfection
>>13976762
> he watches Bazinga
get out faggot lol.
>>13976773
>Bazinga Z
>>13976665
More important, why is there a neverending circlejerk over Zeon while nobody even knows the Crossbone Vanguard, jovians, or Zanscare Empire even exist?
>>13976718
The White Devil is a test and nothing more.
We will overcome the Gundam like all other obstacles
>>13976766
This is a cornerstone of Zeon philosophy.
I'm a perfidious Moon-noid.
Who wants to buy some genuine Anaheim Electronics?
>>13976456
Feddie scum.
>>13976865
>I'm a perfidious Moon-noid.
It's Lunarian!
You're a perfidious Lunarian!
You sound like an idiot when you say it like that!
>>13976865
>funding the rebels so you could raise greater profits on producing and selling military equipment
Smart.
>>13976898
>coming soon: Gundam mkII
every time
If they give me a Gouf I'll do whatever they want.
>>13977365
>I'll do whatever they want.
It's funny you should put it like that.
You see...M'Quve's got this thing about starting every morning off getting blown...
>>13977389
...by polishing the vase he loves.
>be feddie soldier
>start of the war, pilot nothing, good luck fighting zakus with your rifle
>middle of the war get a GM
>end of the war get a GM drawn with slightly different proportions
>be zeek
>start the war in the most advanced mobile suit around, the venerable zaku
>middle of the war pilot a fast and heavily armoured Rick Dom
>end of the war pilot the mighty gelgoog, a mobile suit stronger than the feddie's ace suit, and you have hundreds of them
>>13976684
He lived in space for most of his life though
Im pretty sure every newtype character spent most of their time in space before they awakened
>>13976665
They were modeled after Japan during WWII and all the shitty decisions that entailed.
Of course most Gundam fans completely missed the point and think the genocidal space nazis were foghting for some noble cause.
>>13978533
Lalah lived on Earth her whole life before Char dragged her out of that brothel
Uso lived on earth his whole life as well
>>13978561
True, I forgot about Uso
I thought Lalah lived on a colony though, since amuro and char drove past each other soon after she first showed up
>>13978570
Char had a newtype connection with her when he walked through some red light district in India and dragged her to space with him. She was definitely from earth.
>>13978533
the dom's not really more heavily armored, it's merely bulkier because it has more internal volume for fuel and larger thrusters and reactor. there's only a 5 ton difference between a fully loaded zaku II and a dom, and by default the dom carries a bazooka whereas the zaku typically has a machine gun
gelgoog isn't stronger than the gundam, at best it's got equal weaponry but worse mobility and armor because the gundam had magnetic coating, more thrust, and luna titanium armor
that said the gelgoog does have a larger than required reactor output that made it really nice as a base design for certain modifications like the high mobility B type gelgoog that added a thruster backpack and the support role C type gelgoog with the extra shoulder beam gun. also I'm sure the gelgoog was the first suit to have beam resistant coating which was applied on its shields, because enemy GMs were the first suit to have beam weapons as standard.
also you're biased as fuck because there were late war GM variants with even better specs than the gundam except for armor durability, usually on par with the high end gelgoogs
>>13978561
Wiki says that she's from Side 5
>>13978600
that's a crock of shit because side 5 is loum, the place that got utterly annihilated in January during the giant battle where nukes were being slung around haphazardly, known as the "battle of loum".
>>13978615
There is more stuff in side 5 than just loum anon
>>13978627
what else was there besides space colonies that were destroyed?
>>13978615
Maybe she's a refugee.
>>13978650
possible, but we'll never know. I can't think of any reason why gundam wiki would put side 5 for her place of origin, though. as far as anyone knows, her backstory is vague and barely consists of more than "char picked her up from somewhere that might have been a brothel". all we have is this image which came from a 0080 artbook so it's by no means conclusive about anything
>>13978675
Then maybe Origin can give us something?
>>13978693
Origin is its own thing really. I dunno if the OVA would tell us anything we don't already know from the manga.
>>13978704
I'm not sure the Origin ever gave us any more info on Lalah. Otherwise it'd already be known from the manga.
>>13978704
Ah, so you read it?
I wonder if Lalah would appear in OVA
>>13978675
the caption in the revised English version reads
>64) FAREWELL: In the latter days of the One Year War, many young adults were drafted for the research of so-called new-type psionics, but it was nothing but a kind of human trafficking. This picture may have been taken by her friend.
>>13978596
>at best it's got equal weaponry
Shot for shot, maybe. As Char's Gelgoog showed (it being a Commander-type notwithstanding) during Amuro's fight with M'Quve, the Gelgoog has similar weaponry, but has a lot more firepower by dint of it not having an e-cap, but it being powered directly by the MS's own generator.
The beam rifle has 16-odd shots. A Gelgoog can shoot as much as it likes so long as it doesn't explode.
>Implying they will accept an Earthnoid in the first place
Besides, when has Zeon ever won?
>>13978675
>we will never know
>>13978693
More like this
It's a totally viable concept that could be written into cannon uc.
>>13976436
Can't. Too busy being human debris.
>>13979274
Neo-Zeon won in Zeta
>>13979630
You should take pride in your spacenoid roots
Together, against the Earthnoids, we can Make Space Great Again
>>13976436
No i like my real oxygen and gravity here
>>13980838
Like Oxygen can't be real.
-Shit, dude, this is not our oxygen!
-This is some illusionary shit
>>13978693
>>13978704
>>13978718
In the Origin Lalah is the personal hoe of a shaddy looking Arab guy (he might be Poo in Loo though) and he uses her newtype powers to cheat at the Casinos of Manaus. She is actually never shown to be a whore or even that the shaddy dude is fucking her but it's highly implied.
>>13980870
A gambler in distress, huh.
Still she would be a great mother to me.
>>13980838
Why aren't there more plants in space?
It's good to have them in your house you think spacenoids would want shit to be growing everywhere
>>13982962
Not sure what you mean. Most of the colonies shown have plenty of plant life and trees.
>>13980870
Implied where in the manga exactly?
>>13976436
I would join the winners.Anaheim
>>13983188
>Spoiler
>Implying it's not theVist lineage
Hi
>>13978596
The Dom's armor is still thicker since it can shrug off the Vulcan cannons of the Gundam or GM as opposed to the Zaku which gets torn apart by them.
The Gelgoog is still basically on par with the Gundam (Speaking on base model, no magnet shenanigans), and it speaks volumes that a mass produced (aka scaled back version) is equal to the prototype. And it's extremely clear that the base model is superior to it's Feddie Counter part, the GM.
Also if you're going to bring out GM Commands and Sniper II as your example, the Jäger shits on them both.
>>13978615
You do know you can be born from a place but you don't have to live there for your entire life to say you're from it, right?
>>13976665
Let's see, nicer mobile suit designs, aesthetics, more than a few likable and relateable characters since you're introduced to a lot more of their faction throughout the war as opposed to just Amuro doo and Trojan Horse Crew, romanticism of fighting the good fight even if when everything turns against you, believing in a cause greater than yourself and not just supporting the status quo.
>>13984125
>romanticism of fighting the good fight even if when everything turns against you, believing in a cause greater than yourself and not just supporting the status quo.
Like Nazi Germany, am I right?
>>13976439
>going to jupiter
>to get stupider
>>13984137
>Mum Nazis
It's reflexive at this point for you guys, ani't it? An empire might be evil but not all its citizens are.Don't you know one of the major morals of Mobile Suit Gundam?
>>13984166
Well, really, your fervid support of Zeon can be construed in many ways.
Simply put, are you a Nazi sympathizer?
>>13984166
you meanbuy robot toys?
>>13984125
>he Dom's armor is still thicker since it can shrug off the Vulcan cannons of the Gundam or GM as opposed to the Zaku which gets torn apart by them.
what episodes did that happen in again? I forgot, need to rewatch it
>The Gelgoog is still basically on par with the Gundam (Speaking on base model, no magnet shenanigans)
sort of, it's still a little lacking in thrust and durability
>and it speaks volumes that a mass produced (aka scaled back version) is equal to the prototype
the RX-78 isn't TOO highly powered, eventually power creep and development will let zeon catch up. it took zeon long enough to do something about it, the first RX-78 was rolled out something like 4 months before the first gelgoogs
what do you mean by "scaled back"? are you talking about the gelgoog? as far as I know, the preproduction batch of YMS-14 gelgoogs were given to aces and redesignated MS-14S, and the later MS-14A is identical in every way except that was just the model number for the mass production models
there is a muddy mess where some sources gave extra skirt thrusters to the YMS-14 / MS-14S, but also confusingly give it the exact same specifications as the production MS-14A including identical thrust figures.
>And it's extremely clear that the base model is superior to it's Feddie Counter part, the GM
yes, but for an economy model the GM's pretty decent, easily better than a zaku yet not that far behind a gelgoog. as I understand it, a GM is still lighter and nimbler than a gelgoog but suffers from lower ranged weapons.
>Also if you're going to bring out GM Commands and Sniper II as your example, the Jäger shits on them both.
thank god they never made more than a handful of them
>You do know you can be born from a place but you don't have to live there for your entire life to say you're from it, right?
there's never been anything to ever suggest she was from side 5. did lalah say something about side 5 being her home when she and char were at texas colony?
>>13984177
what the fuck does that have to do with characterization?
jesus christ, you following around black knight to shitpost with him just increases the amount of shitposting around black knight
>>13984173
This is bait.
>>13984183
Factposting is not shitposting
>>13984177That's a goal, not a moral.
>>13984181
Don't know the exact episodes but in the atmospheric re-entry battle Amuro kills a Zaku with just his vulcan canons and they make a big deal about it. Meanwhile at A Baoa Qu, you have a GM charging a Rick Dom firing its vulcan cannons and it has no affect on the Rick Dom. Now that's some subtle damage control. First off the Gunam is head and shoulders above the GM because that's how a prototype is supposed to be. Overclock it and stuff it with all the latest tech and weaponry to field test them. Then after research is done, ways are found to make the model more cost effective for mass production. Otherwise they Feddies would give every pilot a Gundam or at least have it made out of Lunar Titanium. Also I've yet to see the specific stats for the YMS-14 version of the Gelgoog, but it is claimed that they were fitting with backpacks that were later used for the high mobility types, if that's the case. The base model of the Gelgoog is scaled back. Also you make it sound like the GM being superior to the Zaku is some sort of accomplishment when they had almost a year to churn something out. The Gelgoog is a feat of itself considering how the war was progressing and if it was rolled out in September or October, there's an extremely good chance that Zeon would have won the war. Also you put to much weight on raw statistics, ease of handling plays a major role in how well a pilot preforms. Zakus held the edge there which is why even though GMs were all around superior, a Zaku could still manhandle them. Hell look at 0080 where Zakus were manhandling some of the 'best' MP suits of the war.
I was just pointing out you can't say a person is from a place just because the place was blown up. Calm down.
>>13984982
The Zakus in 0080 were FZ's. The FZ was a damn sight more powerful than the F and F2.
>>13984982
>Also I've yet to see the specific stats for the YMS-14 version of the Gelgoog, but it is claimed that they were fitting with backpacks that were later used for the high mobility types, if that's the case.
Some of the preproduction YMS-15 models were later fitted with backpacks that improved their performance greatly, but then they'd count as (prototype) B and C type Gelgoogs, and not any longer as YMS-14 or MS-14S models.
>The base model of the Gelgoog is scaled back.
Not from the preproduction types, which are identical to the base model Gelgoog A type. You seem to be thinking of the backpack equipped B and C types as being the "standard" Gelgoog when those were actually very rare and counted for a small portion of the total production run of ~200 Gelgoogs.
>The Gelgoog is a feat of itself considering how the war was progressing and if it was rolled out in September or October, there's an extremely good chance that Zeon would have won the war.
Funny enough, Mark Simmons' timeline actually does say that the Gelgoog more or less finished development on paper in August, and the preproduction YMS-14 was first rolled out in October. They just couldn't mass produce beam weapons in time, nor set up factories to produce Gelgoogs any earlier.
From what I can find, the 30 preproduction Gelgoogs were assigned to aces and used for final development and data collection. They're considered separate from the later production MS-14A Gelgoogs because they existed before Gelgoog mass production started and because they were also lacking enough beam rifles which Zeon was slow to initially develop and mass produce.
>>13985295
One thing however, the A type was modified with heavier armor and as a result is slightly heavier and slower than the YMS-14 and MS-14S.
Honestly if they were gonna ship out so many Googs with MMP-80s as they did, they should have deployed them sooner with the downgraded armament instead of hoarding them until they got their be-ooh, now I get it. Gelgoogs are Me-262s.
>>13984982
>Also you put to much weight on raw statistics, ease of handling plays a major role in how well a pilot preforms. Zakus held the edge there which is why even though GMs were all around superior, a Zaku could still manhandle them.
Where do you find details like "Zakus handle more easily"? The only place I know that says that is Ecole du Ciel and that's because Asuna trained on a Zaku simulator at a young age. Kou, who likely trained on a GM complains about the Zaku not being as nimble as he'd want it to be. Supposedly there are enough differences between Feddy and Zeon style cockpits that it could be just down to personal preference and experience though. There's the United Maintenance Plan that implies Zeon suits from different manufacturers had trouble standardizing on cockpit layout and setup, and Led Wayline from MSV-R claims to have difficulty operating Zeon suits and messes up the control scheme in the middle of a battle.
>>13985316
>One thing however, the A type was modified with heavier armor and as a result is slightly heavier and slower than the YMS-14 and MS-14S.
Source?
>Honestly if they were gonna ship out so many Googs with MMP-80s as they did, they should have deployed them sooner with the downgraded armament instead of hoarding them until they got their be-ooh, now I get it. Gelgoogs are Me-262s.
Pretty much. The "state of the art" Act Zaku was also crippled by the lack of available beam rifles, so they gave it a machine gun instead. Didn't account for a lot in the war, though.
>>13985349
Led says that because he doesn't remember his training as Johnny, and only because of that. He's still Johnny Fucking Ridden.
>>13985355
I don't remember.
>>13985295
I notice you're dancing around by using the term 'Pre-production', instead of using the term prototype. Which is where I'm making my original reference too.Regardless you clearly don't know what a prototype means since if Char's MS-14S model did have the high mobility pack, it's still a prototype that's testing it and it was later given the B and C line of Gelgoogs. You don't need to make specific prototypes of every model, otherwise we would see double the amount of models out of Zeon suits.
>Mark Timeline
Ha. It's a much of would of, should of. I think by that time line the Dom was allegedly already being tested in March or April. Pretty dubious that the Dom would take 6 months to be rolled out. Imagine a world where the Dom was already being deployed in the Summer of 0079?
>>13985041
Everything in 0080 was basically an upgraded version of what was in previous series. But it was still 'inferior' to the GM Command.
>>13985349
It was the whole reason why the Feddies adopted the Hi-Zack. Ease of production and use. Obviously if the GM excelled at those over what ever AE and the former engineers of Zeonic created for the Federation, they'd have used that version instead of the Hi-Zack and Murasai.
>>13985408
No. The Feddies used the Hi-Zack cause the producers wanted to make sure the dumb gook kids at home knew who the badguys were. Any reason outside of that is bullshit and lies. There's no in universe reason the winning side of a war would use equipment from the losing side.
>>13985408
It was called the GMII, nerd. The Hi-Zack was adopted as a Titans initiative due to the existing precedent of producing Zeon designs to fill the very, very badly depleted EFF ranks that had been stripped of many of its expensive, high-tech suits in that era. It's why they adopted the Act Zaku, Zaku Mariner and other models in the interwar period. Same with the Galbaldy Beta, but they reworked that quite a bit more.
i remember somewhere someone stating that the controls of the Zaku II were more forgiving to novices than higher-spec Zeon machines as well.
>>13985428
Except for the fact the federation literally put Zeon designs into production in the 81-86 period because they couldn't afford to replace all the 79C's and other high end shit that got waxed with the same model. There were only 9 Zaku Cannons produced by Zeon, yet several more existed due to the fact the feds made more because Guncannon IIs cost a ton.
>>13985387
>I notice you're dancing around by using the term 'Pre-production', instead of using the term prototype.
What the hell are you talking about?
That's the terminology used for the YMS-14 on Mark Simmons' website. The YMS-14 design is ready and it's a combat ready machine, but they're building these things at R&D labs instead of factory production lines, and they're not ready to produce matching beam rifles for them. The mobile suit itself as a project is quite literally is at the stage just before production, hence "pre-production".
Prototype would imply an earlier stage of development. In Engineering sciences, a prototype is something that is merely a proof of concept or only as far advanced as a demonstration model. The word "prototyping" means rolling out testing or incomplete examples so they can learn from practical use and testing to eventually lead to a finished, final design.
In other words, the RX-78 is the prototype, but the GM E-type is the preproduction model, and the basic vanilla GM is the finished product.
>Regardless you clearly don't know what a prototype means since if Char's MS-14S model did have the high mobility pack, it's still a prototype that's testing it and it was later given the B and C line of Gelgoogs.
Don't you think you're blurring the lines here a bit? The YMS-14 is a pre-production model for the MS-14A. But when you put a backpack on it, you're testing and gathering data for something else, it's a prototype for the backpack-equipped B and C type Gelgoogs. Putting a backpack on the YMS-14 and calling it a prototype for the MS-14A is a bit of a jump, don't you think? Besides, the prototype for the basic A type Gelgoog design would be whatever the suit was when it was still designated as the "MS-11".
>>13985443
>Besides, the prototype for the basic A type Gelgoog design would be whatever the suit was when it was still designated as the "MS-11".
Almost exactly the same, but not beam-capable.
And the B type is identical to the A type, the backpack is literally the only difference.
>>13985408
>It was the whole reason why the Feddies adopted the Hi-Zack.
Really? I thought it was because the Federation and Titans had trouble sourcing enough suits for the rebuilding of their forces after the OYW. They even started adopting old prototype Zeon MS and putting them into service, not necessarily because they were better than their mainline GM models but to fill out the ranks. That's why Jaburo in Zeta is being defended by OYW era fighters and the most random groups of non-standardized MS, and why places like Torrington have a eccentric mishmash of old equipment.
Advance of Zeta claims that's why the anti-spacenoid Titans adopt the Hizack, but knowing you, you'll just dismiss that for whatever reason. And it's not like the Hizack ever outnumbered the number of GMs in use with the Federation. Hell, it's known that Jamitov created the Titans not to be purely anti-spacenoid but as some kind of twisted method to further his goal of getting people off the earth and into space. He was going to run the Federation into the ground or something. Therefore he's okay with signing off on adopting all of these Zeon style MS because he doesn't care as long as his plan moves forward.
Anyway, we moved away from the original line of discussion. You're stating the Hizack as an example of the MS-05/MS-06 being easy to operate and maintain. A suit that came later and is built by a different manufacturer with all new panoramic cockpit and reactor and backpack and whatnot. That doesn't make sense.
>>13985434
>>13985428
Is this why you see the GMII get completely shit on and the pilots complain they weren't good enough to compete with the Rick Dias in the first episode of Zeta? They used and produced Zeon mobile suits because it was cheaper and the factories were still around. However there would be no excuse to stick with Zeonic designs for the next gen mobile suits unless there was a very good reason. Again, ease of use and production wins out on the fact that the Federation is producing a suit that looks exactly like what their most hated enemies used less than a decade ago.
>>13985428
>There's no in universe reason the winning side of a war would use equipment from the losing side.
Except, I don't know the equipment of the side that 'lost' is more effective and could be applied to benefit the other side? Look up Wernher von Braun if you want a perfect real world example of why you're wrong.
>>13985443
Thanks for proving my point about the difference between prototype, pre-production and your attempt to be deceptive about it in your latest gun hoe attempt to prove me wrong. You're still testing equipment for what would be viable for the standard version, you can quibble all you want, but that's what a prototype is supposed to do. It was scaled back and not used for the A type, but was later used for the B and C type. Simple math.
>>13985501
>>Is this why you see the GMII get completely shit on and the pilots complain they weren't good enough to compete with the Rick Dias in the first episode of Zeta?
Those were vintage GMs.
>>13985501
>Except, I don't know the equipment of the side that 'lost' is more effective and could be applied to benefit the other side? Look up Wernher von Braun if you want a perfect real world example of why you're wrong.
The M60 is literally an upside-down FG-42.
>>13985484
The suit was designed by the same people that made the Zaku, and approved to be the mainline suit of the Federation. You can claim it' a different manufacturer, but the designers are the same and they have such a proven track record that the Federation has no problem letting their next generation mobile suit look like the main stay suit of the government that almost toppled them.
Also considering how the Feddies shit out GMs by the fist full from Jaburo in the OWY and that was still standing by the time, I don't think the excuse that they have trouble building and finding suits after the war holds any merit. It boiled down to what was most cost effective. And for all the praise that was rained on the GM that all the parts are interchangeable and each part for a Zeon suit needed to be uniquely built because they were all made by different manufacturers didn't matter a lick in the end.
Also you can't use the Jaburo defense force in Zeta as an indicator of what the Federation forces normally used since almost everything was already moved out of Jaburo to set the trap. Meaning they only left the obsolete suits along with whatever the Titans sent from orbit.
>>13985505
Wrong, they were GM IIs, which had 360-degree panoramic monitors, Unless you're claiming the Federation deployed those during the OYW, in which you're just begging to create a time paradox.
>>13985515
Unless you've got a screenshot to prove me wrong, I distinctly remember the pilot bitching he couldn't do shit with his 'antique GM' against the Rick Dias.
Though lets remember that's not hard to do in a Rick Dias against many suits that were around in 0087. The thing was a beast of a suit. The Nemo was a marginal improvement over the GMII and it shat on Hizacks all day.
>>13985524
He said antiquated because the GM II was already obsolete by the time of Zeta. The 360-degree panoramic monitor is the only evidence I need to show it's clearly not an original GM model. And since I want you to hang yourself with your own rope. I insist YOU get any screenshot of the cockpit and post it, you won't, because you'd just prove yourself wrong.
Please stop replying to Black Knight, you'd have a more productive conversation with a brick.
>>13985501
>Thanks for proving my point about the difference between prototype, pre-production and your attempt to be deceptive about it in your latest gun hoe attempt to prove me wrong.
What fucking deception is there if you claim I just proved your point again? You really think I'm deceiving you if I stated my sources (Ultimatemark.com's transcribed databook entries)? I already told you I'm using the term the website uses.
>>13985556
Your own attempt to refute that the base model of the Gelgoog was scaled back and then your endless waltz between pre-production and proto types. It's not that hard to walk through.
Also that Ultimatemark site, are you my favorite punching bag that claims the Papua was built as a warship?
>>13985515
>The suit was designed by the same people that made the Zaku, and approved to be the mainline suit of the Federation.
The Hizack is a product of Zeon design and Federation technology. It's manufactured by the EFF. Only recent retcons from Advance of Zeta try to shoehorn in Anaheim Electronics as contributing to the Hizack.
>You can claim it' a different manufacturer, but the designers are the same
Who are these designers that you are referring to? Such details are unknown, so it's not like you can prove it's the same designers just like I can't prove it's not a different designer. At best, it's just the Federation co-opting Zeon design and updating the tech like the Galbaldy Beta and Zaku Mariner.
>Also considering how the Feddies shit out GMs by the fist full from Jaburo in the OWY and that was still standing by the time, I don't think the excuse that they have trouble building and finding suits after the war holds any merit. It boiled down to what was most cost effective.
Post-war, the Feds scale down its forces and focuses on rebuilding. They no longer have a wartime economy and budget to play with. You assuming that they just kept churning out GMs non-stop even after the OYW is not true.
>And for all the praise that was rained on the GM that all the parts are interchangeable and each part for a Zeon suit needed to be uniquely built because they were all made by different manufacturers didn't matter a lick in the end.
Except that after the Gryps war, the Hizack never fully replaced the GM series and the Federation develops a GM III instead of more Hizacks.
>Also you can't use the Jaburo defense force in Zeta as an indicator of what the Federation forces normally used since almost everything was already moved out of Jaburo to set the trap. Meaning they only left the obsolete suits along with whatever the Titans sent from orbit.
The Titans are still forced to use GM IIs in the beginning, and there are Act Zakus chasing the AEUG's stolen Garuda
>>13985571
>Your own attempt to refute that the base model of the Gelgoog was scaled back
You yourself said you haven't checked the specs and still claim that the Gelgoog was scaled back. Just because they added a backpack later does not in any way infer that a backpack was intended during development and before production.
>your endless waltz between pre-production and proto types.
I used the word pre-production in all of my posts. The word "prototype" didn't enter the equation until you started referring to it as a prototype. I separate them because they refer to different goddamned things and because the sources I quite from use that specific word.
>Also that Ultimatemark site, are you my favorite punching bag that claims the Papua was built as a warship?
No, fuck that line of debate. Only whatever initial model of the Papua that ever carried missiles is possibly a warship, which apparently was quickly vetoed in favor of using them as supply ships instead. As far as I know, the sources that say that are Gundam Century and the like, which are obsolete, retconned to hell, and are no longer relevant or valid.
>>13985613
>>13985655
The Zeon design is the crux though since it doesn't matter how much high end tech you have if you can't utilize it efficiently. also if you're going to use a Zeon design, you're going to manufacturers who worked for Zeon to help you out. That's just common sense and a perfect real world comparison is how the Americans and Soviets co-opted Nazi scientists after the war. Same thing thing is happening here. You had some Zeon companies get absorbed into private industry like AE, while others worked directly with the Federation. Don't forget that several Zeon aces went on to become test pilots or instructors for the Federation, so you can't deny that the Federation absorbed Zeon resources and personal. 0083's Navel Review disagrees with you, unless all those ships and suits were just left overs from the OYW they decided to bring out for a ride around Solomon. The Hi Zack replaced the GM series, the GM series only made a resurgence after the Federation and Titans lost and the Federation for whatever reason opted to go with GMs again. You also make the assumption that older suits would be phased out. The Action Zakus came from Oakland Base and were there to support, Blutarch's team which had Hi-Zacks. I double checking since it never hurts to confirm your position. I have yet to see any official stats for the YMS version. Also the fact that the YMS version had gear that was later removed from the base version is exactly what a prototype's job would do. The word prototype was here from the beginning, you decided to just dance around it after thinking you could zing me with it. Also that line of debate is perfectly valid since you kept claiming that it was Zeon that made the first move of aggression because they built the Papua. (A transport ship i might add). Nevermind the fact that the Federation already built up a massive fleet and held a navel review before the Papua was even commissioned. I expect a full recant if you say it doesn't count anymore.
>>13985721
>for whatever reason decided to go with GMs again
I dunno, maybe they represented the Titans and Zeon and was kind of a bad image to have?
>>13985732
The Titans were or a part of the Federation, it just shows how the Feddies have no resolve.
>>13985721
>also if you're going to use a Zeon design, you're going to manufacturers who worked for Zeon to help you out.
Or if it's simple enough to reverse engineer, you just blatantly copy it without needing to consult the original designers like the various guns "inspired" by the MG42 and AK-47 that have been produced over the years. In the case of the latter, often illegally.
The need to recruit scientists formerly working for Nazi Germany was because they had new technology that the Allies and Russia had only the smallest of insight into, like advanced long range rocketry. In the case of the Zaku, you are referring to the "ease of use and construction" which is more conceptual design rather than a difficult to understand piece of unknown technology and science.
>Don't forget that several Zeon aces went on to become test pilots or instructors for the Federation, so you can't deny that the Federation absorbed Zeon resources and personal.
I don't know about aces. Which ones are you referring to? You're right about data though, the Federation absorbed Zeon R&D like Pezun asteroid base's data and very clearly adopted and produced their own updated versions of the Zaku Mariner and Galbaldy.
>0083's Navel Review disagrees with you, unless all those ships and suits were just left overs from the OYW they decided to bring out for a ride around Solomon.
We aren't exactly told how many ships there are. Who knows, they could be leftovers. A single nuke was enough to devastate most of the collected fleet, after all.
>The Hi Zack replaced the GM series, the GM series only made a resurgence after the Federation and Titans lost and the Federation for whatever reason opted to go with GMs again.
Hizack was primarily a Titans suit, and is mostly associated with them. While there were a few Hizacks in Feddy service, they were nowhere near numerous enough to replace all GMs in service.
>>13985750 continued
>You also make the assumption that older suits would be phased out.
No, I only stated that there were not enough new suits to fill out the ranks. I'm the one saying older suits were kept in service like the mishmash of random suits defending Jaburo and Torrington. Besides, didn't you just make the assumption that they phased out the inadequate GM II?
>The Action Zakus came from Oakland Base and were there to support, Blutarch's team which had Hi-Zacks.
Doesn't that reinforce the idea of the Titans and Federation being forced to use older machines to fill out the ranks?
>Also the fact that the YMS version had gear that was later removed from the base version is exactly what a prototype's job would do.
What gear? The backpack was an afterthought that was never on the base version. Otherwise it wouldn't be an A-type Gelgoog. Never mind that they didn't develop the backpack until after the A type went into production.
>The word prototype was here from the beginning, you decided to just dance around it after thinking you could zing me with it.
Yeah, keep thinking that. I only ever used the word "pre-production" in my own posts. You just started replying to my posts while using the word "prototype" and complaining that I'm using the word incorrectly to suit your vision of the Gelgoog development line because apparently such a thing was intended to throw you off.
>Also that line of debate is perfectly valid since you kept claiming that it was Zeon that made the first move of aggression because they built the Papua.
Are you serious? I just told you I'm not that person. That guy who was using ridiculously outdated databooks to support his claim.
>Nevermind the fact that the Federation already built up a massive fleet
They always had a massive fleet. There was no buildup, just a overhaul to upgrade their ships from laser cannons to mega particle cannons.
>>13985744
The Titans however were more or less an autonomous force similar to the A-Laws in 00 its not to far fetched that the Hi-Zack was seen almost exclusively as a Titans special design and symbol similar to how the Ahead was to A-Laws even if the federation had a few used by their standard forces as such I would say that the GM II and later the GM III were likely still the actual federation mainstay unit
>>13984982
>This is bait.
No, it's a question. Can you answer it?
>>13976665
Because Feddie suits come in two varieties, the Gundam and Shitty Pointless GM-Successors, while Zeon has stylish Mobile Suits and cool weapons.
Also Zeon has a space princess.
>>13985316
More like Ta-152.
Me-262 is Zeong
Nah.
>>13978533
You forgot
>middle of the war get a GM, the most advanced mobile suit around that can wipe the floor with any Zeon mobile suit at the time beyond super prototypes
>>13985750
Why the would to take the time and resources to reverse engineer when you have access to the engineers who designed what you want to study in the first place? Making an obtuse excuse doesn't change the facts that if you have a group with superior tech, you're going to absorb them when you have the chance. I know of Elliot Rem. I was positive one of the aces who had an eyepatch also became an instructor or test pilot for the Feddies but I'd have to look that up. Did you not watch Gato's attack or the Navel review scenes? There's hundreds, if not over a thousand ships there. Also they're clearly showing off their latest ships like the Birmingham, otherwise what's the point of a navel review if you're bringing out the old stuff? We don't know how many Hi Zacks the Federation had, but they clearly had and used them. We didn't see much of Federation regulars in Zeta, but Lila's team had Galbady's which were improved versions of a Zeon suit. Mispoke there, meant that older suits would still be in service or be used as expendable fodder ala Jaburo. It only reinforces the idea that they have a preference towards Zeon designs since a majority of weaponry deployed by the Federation in the Grypes conflict were Zeon based. Pure conjecture that the backpack is an after thought especially since the backpack was later used in higher end models. I used the word prototype in the beginning you tried to pull it out like it was some massive contradiction that the Gelgoog didn't have a difference between its forms. Well you all sound alike, if you're going to insist on engaging me over time, you should at least show some decorum and adopt a trip for these discussions. Otherwise for the sake of my convenience I'll just say you're all the Papua guy. No they didn't. The Salamis and Magellan were built in part of the Year 70 Armament Reinforcement Plan, The Feddies had a Year 60 Armament Reinforcement Plan meaning they had an entirely different fleet a decade before.
>>13985958
That doesn't make any sense. The 262 saw much more service, it's better to call the Gyan the 152 and the Eos the 152H.
>>13985837
This falsehood again? The Titans were still an organization within the Federation, they were allowed a certain amount of autonomy, but they were not an independent force as they still had to answer to the Federation. It's just the Federation was as corrupt and incompetant as always so they didn't bother to reign in the Titans. Also the Federation clearly had access to the same gear the Titans did since you see Hi-Zacks belonging to the Federation, and if anything it was a joint operation between the Feddie regulars and the Titans.
>>13985863
Bait in the form of a question, is still bait.
>>13976436
Of course. And I would hope for a glorious death in the battle of Solomon.
>>13987433
>Why the would to take the time and resources to reverse engineer when you have access to the engineers who designed what you want to study in the first place? Making an obtuse excuse doesn't change the facts that if you have a group with superior tech, you're going to absorb them when you have the chance.
You're making that assumption based on your own belief that they recruited the people, which is still up in the air. AE was supposed to have absorbed Zeonic and Zimmad in the postwar period. Besides, who's to say the EF hasn't been analyzing captured enemy tech since the OYW? If it's just "ease of use and construction" then it's not very difficult to take captured models on test runs and take apart the machine for analysis - something that will be inevitably happening during Hizack development anyway. Theoretical data and picking the brain of an engineer is fine, but there's no substitute for practical data gathering on ones own terms. The USAF still conducted all kinds of test flights and mock air combat with German forces flying some of the latest model MiG-29s after the unification of Germany, even though they would have had access to data and the pilots and engineers who operated and maintained those MiGs. They also imported a few MiG-29s to the US for you guessed it, disassembly and reverse-engineering.
>Did you not watch Gato's attack or the Navel review scenes? There's hundreds, if not over a thousand ships there.
Embellishment. Come back with actual numbers, otherwise this is a pointless point to make.
>Also they're clearly showing off their latest ships like the Birmingham, otherwise what's the point of a navel review if you're bringing out the old stuff?
Are you daft? A naval review isn't about only showing off new ships. That one cocky officer (the one sitting in the special chair on the Birmingham's bridge, I believe) says it was a show of strength meant to intimidate the Zeon remnants.
>>13990226 continued
>We don't know how many Hi Zacks the Federation had, but they clearly had and used them.
Whether they had them or not isn't the question, you claimed that the Federation phased out GMs and adopted the Hizack in their stead. They seemed to make up a minimum rather than being a mainstay unit of the Federation. And by Zeta these suits were supposed to have been in service for a few years. It's just not very believable that the Federation has done what you said they did because even the Titans are still using GM IIs in early episodes of Zeta. There's still GM IIs assisting with hull repair and combat up to the lunar arc in Zeta, so they're still around and in service. By later episodes, there's more new suits to go around though.
>Pure conjecture that the backpack is an after thought especially since the backpack was later used in higher end models.
The backpack didn't even get tested until after the YMS-14 was allotted to ace pilots. Why wouldn't it be an afterthought if it never made it into the base design that they built 165 models of? The backpack was conceived of as an easy modular way to improve the base design's capabilities. If you don't like the idea that the backpack came later, then is there any solid reasoning why it did not appear earlier?
>I used the word prototype in the beginning you tried to pull it out like it was some massive contradiction that the Gelgoog didn't have a difference between its forms.
You made the first claim in >>13984125 that the MP Gelgoog is scaled back. I brought up the "muddy mess" in >>13984181 because it had relevance to you mistakenly claiming that the MS-14A was scaled back, because it IS contradictory based on what information the databooks have given us. You still haven't stated how the MS-14A is scaled back, and it's silly enough that you haven't bothered to look up the specs.
>>13976436
>Would you give up your life of luxury as an earthnoid to join the glorious Principality of Zeon?
No.
>>13990312 continued
>Well you all sound alike, if you're going to insist on engaging me over time, you should at least show some decorum and adopt a trip for these discussions.
The last time I debated with you was years ago though, I don't make a habit of it.
>Otherwise for the sake of my convenience I'll just say you're all the Papua guy.
That's up to you to say, it just makes you look silly to call me the Papua guy even if I already stated that I don't share his opinions on the Papua.
>No they didn't. The Salamis and Magellan were built in part of the Year 70 Armament Reinforcement Plan, The Feddies had a Year 60 Armament Reinforcement Plan meaning they had an entirely different fleet a decade before.
And where are you getting this information from? I thought you were claiming the Federation already had a large space fleet before Zeon developed the Papua, but you don't want to say that the Federation already had a large fleet before Side 3's declaration of autonomy? There is so little information on the 60s armament reinforcement plan other than "Luna II becomes military base" and "Federation shows off new ship design" which is whatever ship they had that the Salamis and Magellan replaced in service.
I want to gas this thread
>>13990584
>wants thread to die
>bumps it
I just had a dream where i was in a gundam.
I held onto the side of a rocket that flew into space
>>13976650
You misspelled it, as expected of uncivilized genocidal spacenoid filth: The correct name is
Earth Federation Internet Defence Force EFIDF.
>>13990226
How is it an assumption when we have real world examples of a winning power co-opting people and resources from the loser in a war, or the fact that puppet regime of the Republic of Zeon was working with the Federation and Federation troops were using Zeon mobile Suits. They clearly had access to Zeon facilities to continue to produce Zeon made mobile suits and the fact they used them at Jaburo is evidence of that. You can do all the conjecture in the world, but the Federation used the Hi-Zack against the AEUG and not GMs as their main force. A screenshot with a huge number of lights representing ships is not embellishment. What do you think a Navel review is? It's a show of strength in showing off the latest toys to the rest of the world. You don't see the US navy pulling out a Man o War for their navel reviews, they're going to put their state of the art ships front and center. Again, Hi Zacks were the bread and butter of the Federation's war against the AEUG, you cannot deny that. I'm not even sure what you're babbling about here. They clearly tested a backpack that wasn't used in the mass production model, ergo, it was a prototype. This is an extremely easy line of thinking even someone like you can understand. The fact you're still here speaks volumes, so for the future references, if I see a wall of text that tries to refute everything I write. I'm going to assume you're the Papua anon and treat you like that. If you take umbrage with that, not my problem. Where do you think I got the information from? YOU Posted it in your attempt to prove that Zeon was the original aggressor. The Federation initiated the Year 60 Armament Reinforcement Plan in response to Zeon declaring independence and not a few years later, held a navel review to show off everything they built. Then when new technology came forward, The Feddies pushed the Year 70 Armament Reinforcement Plan. Unless you want to recant what you posted before, it's all there.
>>13993419
>How is it an assumption when we have real world examples of a winning power co-opting people and resources from the loser in a war
I already told you the allies wanted the scientists because they didn't have similar rocket technology nor an understanding of them. On the other hand, you're talking about the Zaku being easy to use and maintain, something they can easily figure out by taking apart captured Zakus. You're using an example of *unknown technology requiring specific scientific knowledge* to try and justify how to build an easy to operate and maintain mobile suit?
>or the fact that puppet regime of the Republic of Zeon was working with the Federation and Federation troops were using Zeon mobile Suits. They clearly had access to Zeon facilities to continue to produce Zeon made mobile suits and the fact they used them at Jaburo is evidence of that.
The puppet government at Side 3 was installed by the Federation. They're civilians. They have jackshit to do with giving technical expertise about building a new MS based on the Zaku.
You're wrong if you assume the Federation let Side 3 keep their arms producing facilities. For one, it's already known that Zeonic and Zimmad's assets were absorbed into Anaheim Electronics. Second, operating captured MS doesn't require keeping the original factories open and running. All they require are spare parts, so long as they have the technical knowledge, new spare parts can be fabricated. Suits like the Zaku Mariner, Galbaldy Beta, and Hizack might be based on Zeon style design but they are clearly manufactured at Federation facilities. It's not hard to mold armor in the shape of Zeon style MS and have AE/Federation parts underneath. The Gelgoog that the AEUG salvages and uses for Reccoa's infiltration operation would be one example. MSV-R features a conspiracy where a high end Gelgoog is discovered to have been built and supplied with Federation parts and fuel, but incorporates Zeon style MS construction.
>>13976762
NORMIE
GET THE FUCK OUT
REEEEEEEEEEEEE
![[EG]Gundam_0083_10_BD(1080p_10bit)[CF1F38D8].mkv_snapshot_00.35_[2016.03.13_21.33.56].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/QqrwLRY.jpg "[EG]Gundam_0083_10_BD(1080p_10bit)[CF1F38D8].mkv_snapshot_00.35_[2016.03.13_21.33.56].jpg")
>>13993487 continued
>You can do all the conjecture in the world, but the Federation used the Hi-Zack against the AEUG and not GMs as their main force.
No shit they would want to deploy their newer MS rather than keep using their older GM IIs. But not even the Hizack is shown to be their mainline grunt. There are simply not that many Hizacks in the Federation forces, the majority are in Titans use instead. There's a reason why the Hizack is much more closely associated with the Titans rather than simply being an EFF model. The EFF deploys Galbaldy Betas, the Act Zakus, and various other machines in the show. The Hizack is not the most numerous MS they deploy, it is merely one of the many suits they have.
>You don't see the US navy pulling out a Man o War for their navel reviews, they're going to put their state of the art ships front and center
You're actually just going to ignore Admiral Wyatt saying it was a show of force rather than showing off new tech? You say that like they're not allowed to put any old ships in the formation. Why isn't the Albion recalled to be put in the naval review, then? Databooks apparently say the Gray Phantom and Stallion were present at 0083's naval review and they are ships dating back to the OYW.
>Again, Hi Zacks were the bread and butter of the Federation's war against the AEUG, you cannot deny that.
Oh fuck that, that isn't even what we're debating. I said the Hizack never fully replaced the GM series, the fact that GMs show up in service during various episodes proves that. Whether or not the EFF chooses to deploy more of their newer Hizacks rather than their older GMs does not prove anything about the EFF and Titans decommissioning all of their GMs.
>A screenshot with a huge number of lights representing ships is not embellishment.
You haven't posted a screenshot. Here's a shot of one of the widest POVs of the naval review, there would only be a few hundred ships at best, certainly nowhere near a thousand.
>>13993419 continued
>They clearly tested a backpack that wasn't used in the mass production model, ergo, it was a prototype. This is an extremely easy line of thinking even someone like you can understand.
So how exactly does it being prototype equipment prove it wasn't an afterthought? The two things are not mutually exclusive. For example, the ZZ Gundam's full armor parts are clearly an afterthought, that does not preclude it from being prototype equipment for a prototype mobile suit. They started testing the B and C style backpacks only after they finished the basic suit design and built a batch of backpackless models.
>The fact you're still here speaks volumes, so for the future references, if I see a wall of text that tries to refute everything I write. I'm going to assume you're the Papua anon and treat you like that. If you take umbrage with that, not my problem.
That's weird reasoning for a mostly text-based discussion board. Most arguments are going to be a wall of text. You're making walls of text too you smart-ass, and so would every anonymous poster that tries to refute you because there's no easy short answer to reply to you.
>YOU Posted it in your attempt to prove that Zeon was the original aggressor. The Federation initiated the Year 60 Armament Reinforcement Plan in response to Zeon declaring independence and not a few years later, held a navel review to show off everything they built. Then when new technology came forward, The Feddies pushed the Year 70 Armament Reinforcement Plan. Unless you want to recant what you posted before, it's all there.
Didn't you fucking claim all of his sources were invalid?
I wish there was a machine that would generate electricity for every word Black_Knight types, we'd have unlimited power.
>>13993638
>I wish there was a machine that would generate electricity for every fallacy or contradiction Black_Knight types, we'd have unlimited power.
>>13993560
Don't the Feddies mostly use Nemos?
>>13993669
No, because if you take its name at face value (Latin: No one) it means no one used it and therefore it did not exist. It's just the common sense interpretation.
>>13993669
As far as the Grypps war was concerned, the Nemo was AEUG exclusive.
Which, while many identified as EF,not enough to say mostly.
The main 'grunt' of choice for the standard EF rank and file in Zeta was the GM II.
>>13993560
Oh it's clearly what we're debating, and you can't deny that throughout the Federation's war against the AEUG, the main suit deployed was the Hi-Zack. Unless GMs suddenly decided to take on Zaku like appearances. Which is why all the Salamis and Magellans were refits? Clearly they had the latest ships there. Also use some logic, when Gato first appeared, he charged in from the opposite side of Solomon and where the Birmingham was, since there were large swaths of ships Gato had to break through to make it his position in the screenshot you posted to fire, it's simple logic to say you could at least double the amount of ships. Now you're being obtuse using a non-canon series as your evidence. Sticking to the proper timeline, the Gelgoog was not yet approved for mass production so they were clearly still testing them and possible gear. But even if we are going by the non-canon timeline and you're twisted logic. The ZZ was a one of a kind suit and clearly would be designated a prototype. Wouldn't it be obvious to produce gear for it for testing? Well if you were smart, you could cut your posts in half by more concisely getting to the point instead of thinking length makes right. And I'm being nice by condensing all my response into a single post for you. It's more fun to use your own sources to prove you wrong.
>>13993638
>>13993657
More shitposting.
>>13976436
>give up my life on earth to go fight in a losing war with space nazis
i'm not from australia so no
>>13997258
Well Operation Remove Shitposters in the UC Timeline was complete success, so you're already dead.
>>13976436
>Would you give up your life of luxury as an earthnoid to join the glorious Principality of Zeon?
I have spent >9000 hours mastering the entire armored core series, and no one can defeat me.
I kitbash 1/144 Zeonic mobile armors when I'm not building orbital weapons in Kerbal Space program.
If I sign up, I want a prototype high-performance transformable psycommu mobile suit for newtype use, or it's no deal.
>>13997258
>i'm not from australia
>>13997285
>Well Operation Remove Shitposters in the UC Timeline was complete success, so you're already dead.
>Australia
The Orbital Elevator is the key to the Heavens, the key to Spacenoid Freedom
It is our right to it, we need to urge our governments to respect those rights and pool resources to build a Orbital Elevator
If it means getting a Dom, yes.
>>14000746
Once we have one mobile suit we will essentially have them all.
Different armour "skins" with what ever addons built on.
Crazy wings with jets and funnels come later..
..but maybe not even that much later
>>14000769
The Wright Brothers first flight was in 1903. Apollo was in 1969. 66 years isn't even a lifetime and that's a hell of a bigger jump than some new suits.
>>13976436
Why join Zeon? COBRA is where it's at!
>>14000959
Why join COBRA when you can join COBDRA?
>>14000985
SPECTRE is cooler
>>13997285
Reminder that Black_Knight will argue that ZZ isn't canon because of Anime Ja Nai (despite his reasoning for doing so leading to a paradox) and because the Capule in G-Reco was actually a Kapool, thanks to Unicorn having a different art aesthetic.
>>14000985
I should dig up that Cobra/Decepticon/Manos/Foot Clan/Millenium/Mordor/Galactic Empire/Smart Brain/Whatever logo
>>14001662
He's also admitted he champions the Zeta films because he dislikes ZZ. Despite for years claiming it had nothing to do with personal preference.
>>14001690
here's the rough version I got to before I got bored with it
>>14001691
>>14001662
So you've given up on defending the corrupt Federation and pivoted back to if ZZ is canon?
One, tthat's clearly a Kapool with some animation errors, if we follow your level of burden of proof that it's a 'Capule' on the right side text. Two, lf I humor you and we follow your logic where the most recent series dictates what is canon. You just made Unicorn non-canon because if we do say that's a 'Capule' That's clearly not what was in Unicorn.
Also this worthless attempt to discredit me saying it's personal bias. I hate SEED Destiny, however I don't question if it's canon or not because that's what the Timeline is for the SEED timeline. Ergo, I remain principled while you twist yourself in a pretzel in futile attempts to prove me wrong.
So, regardless of the pockets of resistance from people who argue out of spite on what is canon. We can agree that Zeon utilized the best, possible strategy for them in the One Week Battle, The Federation was the original aggressor against Side 3 .The Feddies adopted Zeon tech after the One Year War because it was easier to use and maintain, and the Gelgoog was a better suit than the Gundam.
>>14001844
>He responds to a completely different anon thinking its another anon
>>14001844
I'm not that anon and I'm not the anon you were arguing about Feddies with.
How about this: you literally cannot prove me wrong. It doesn't matter what you say is an animation error or not because you have none of the proof you claim to love so much.
http://en.gundam.info/series/unicorn/?p=374
>Haman Karn's Neo Zeon forces
It's clearly what was in Unicorn. If you have any proof to the contraryyou don'tthen feel free to post it.
>You just made Unicorn non-canon because if we do say that's a 'Capule' That's clearly not what was in Unicorn.
It clearly is, what else could it be?
>ignoring your asinine Anime Ja Nai claims
probably for the best
>>14001844
The best possible stratgey for Zeon during the One Week War would have been for them to hold their ground at side 3 instead of spreading out their forces and making the entire world hate their guts.
>>14001844
>it's another rerun of the Black_Knight debates the canonicity of ZZ Gundam episode
Another fun thread ruined again
>>14002053
It's been a "Black_Knight skews 0083 to fit his narrative" thread for most of its run, nothing of value was lost. At least here you get to see him run away or dig holes like nothing else.
>>13990655
I had a dream I was a Gundam horse. A samurai Gundam rode me into space.
>>14002093
>>14001963
>>14002037
For future reference since you'd rather hide behind anonimity and make this a game of wack a mole. I'm going to treat Anonymous as one person and anything Anonymous says will considered part of the whole.
I will figuratively and factually prove you wrong. Clearly that Kapool in G-Reco is not a Capule for starters. Also the design is a clear contradiction to what was in ZZ. You can't have it both ways if you write it off as an animation error, I can officially invoke that as the reason why it's Capule in G-Reco. It's a Capule, also you can't refute Anime Ja Nai except for relying on pure pretentiousness by claiming you know exactly what the lyrics mean. Give sunrise execs some credit looking backwards.
>>14002053
More like it's your fault for bringing it up in the first place. Don't play with a Solar Ray or else you'll get burned.
>>14002074
Wrong thread, man keep your rage in check.
>>14002668
>since you'd rather hide behind anonimity
Isn't that the whole point of 4chan though? Also it keeps things interesting.
>>14002668
Or if you just assume that someone who starts a new line of conversation is a different person instead of acting autistic? Here, I'll give myself a name.
>I will figuratively and factually prove you wrong.
I'm prepared for those hot sources.
>Clearly that Kapool in G-Reco is not a Capule for starters.
How about you compare two pictures? Your statement is not proof. Show me the proof in image form. I've already done so for you and it PROVES it is.
>Also the design is a clear contradiction to what was in ZZ. You can't have it both ways if you write it off as an animation error, I can officially invoke that as the reason why it's Capule in G-Reco.
Literally not. Remember that you were the one to run away last time. I can go at this as long as I want to, which is as long as you keep saying dumb shit. You can't have it both ways and say that it's clearly a Kapool but also say it's an animation error.
>It's a Capule, also you can't refute Anime Ja Nai except for relying on pure pretentiousness by claiming you know exactly what the lyrics mean. Give sunrise execs some credit looking backwards.
They said "all footage", not all anime. They chose the wording specifically. Check the original japanese too, the word "anime" is never used. So whether it's anime or not, it's still footage and therefore it still counts.
>>14002668
>it's a blackknight is autstic and can't understand that he's talking to multiple people episode
>This thread
>>14002668
>I cannot respond to arguments laid out by individuals, so I'm going to treat all of you as a singular entity to compensate for my god-awful argumentation skills
Nicely done.
>>14002734
>>14002774
>Can't refute
>Immediately resorts to insults
Bravo anon.
>>14002786
It's the truth, though, isn't it?
>>14002786
What?
I'm pointing out that you couldn't see that me and another anon were different people.
>>14002791
No, it's not.
>>14002794
It's called convenience and the fact you'd prefer to hide rather than show a shred of dignity and put a name towards your personal ideals and opinions since we've gone well beyond just having the ideas themselves being judged since you're all debating mainly out of spite now.Already won that particular debate with a mod almost 10 years ago.
>>14002711
>Isn't that the whole point of 4chan though? Also it keeps things interesting.
>>14002809
I'd also like to point out that mods are still just regular peoplewho do it for free
>>14002809
Still waiting. If you can't put yourself above petty insults then maybe arguing online isn't for you? I'm being real here.
>>14002816
If it's the base idea itself and you don't want a name attached and judged on its own merit, that's where it's justifiable. But if it's the same group of people going back and forth, I find harder to acceptable then.
I think it was 2007. A simpler and better time, before bugs and it was an age before janitors and hot pockets.
>>14002818
Waiting for what? You still are picking and choosing where you think I'm weakest and still failing even then? I don't feel I should change anything. Also treating Anonymous as one person allows me to streamline my replies to speed up things in the long run. You should be thanking me.
>>14002809
What? You responded to my post: >>14002053
You said
>More like it's your fault for bringing it up in the first place. Don't play with a Solar Ray or else you'll get burned.
However I didn't bring any of this up. I just entered the thread and saw that this autistic argument was going on
>>14002829
Well, maybe you shouldn't have tired to pick a fight when I was making simple observations and then letting that spiral out of control. You clearly did bring it up.
>>14002841
>Anon is complaining about the thread's spiral into a shitfest
>"Picking a fight"
To be honest it's only really "Picking a fight" if you see it as picking a fight, to me it was just the anon complaining.
>>14002850
You only have yourself to blame for that since you couldn't keep it civil. Hell, I ignored some of your more obvious bait along the way. So give me credit for identifying and ignoring your shitposts.
>>14002827
Why does it have to be about weakness? Why do you make it seem like I'm always attacking you personally?
Here you go, all spaced out and nice for you to read again. Like you want, they're simply observations.
1. Anime Ja Nai has no bearing on canonicity because it was never ruled out. The words used were "footage", never "anime". (堀口:“フィルム化されたもの”がオフィシャル。) Therefore, even if it wasn't anime, it is still canon.
2. Unicorn info (http://en.gundam.info/series/unicorn/?p=374) states that the mecha in the picture is, in fact, a Capule.
3. My piece of evidence (>>14001662) shows that ZZ lineart is represented in the G-Reco picture and the Unicorn lineart. There is nothing representing the characteristics of a Kapool in either.
Would you like to refute or argue any of these points? If you don't I'm going to have to assume that you can't. I even put on a name so you wouldn't have to argue with the rest of these people.
Well?
>>14002841
So you admit that you're autistic in that you assume everyone is the same anon?
It's not 'picking a fight', it's bringing up that you've managed to spiral the thread into a shitfit.
>>14002850
>to me it was just the anon complaining.
>it was just the anon complaining
>typing style indicates its a completely different person
>>14002861
>Black_Knight confuses people again
I'm sorry for your attempts at civilposting anon >>14002850 which I can only assume is also >>14002711 through typing style, but its no use. He's too autistic.technically we all are but that's not stopping any of us is it?
>>14002865
>I even put on a name so you wouldn't have to argue with the rest of these people.
I'm getting out of this thread before it shitfits any further but godspeed brave soul
>>14002865
>堀口:“フィルム化されたもの”がオフィシャル。
>Horiguchi: "film version" is official
>'film version'
>Film is another word for movie
>'movie version'
Checkmate
Unicorn had a Capule, but it clearly looks nothing like the 'Capule' you claim is in G-Reco, if you insist it's a 'Capule' you have a clear contradiction with Unicorn. If you use the animated error excuse, I'll just say it's a Kapool (Which it is) and the inconsistencies you point out are from animation errors.
Well I wasn't expecting that, but you just posted the smoking gun that proves the movies are the canon version. Thanks.
>>14002871
Loaded question, I'm not the one shitting up the thread, it's all on you for making the thread about me and then trying to blame me. You're like an arsonist who sets fire to a condo complex and then blames a long time resident for it.
>>14002872
See? Now you're just being skitzoid and replying to yourself and getting confused as well. Wouldn't some sort of tag make things nice and clean in the long run if we're going to continue these conversations?
>>14002894
>Wouldn't some sort of tag make things nice and clean in the long run if we're going to continue these conversations?
Nah, I'd like to stick to the base idea 4chan was made for, thanks. Go argue with that other dude and leave us regular anons out of it.
>>14002905
Can't stand the heat, get out of the Solar Ray.
Said it once, I'll say it again, if I really upset you so much that you can't function like a rational human being. You can always filter me or you know, act like a moth to the flame and not reply to my posts .
>>14002911
>act like a moth to the flame and not reply to my posts .
I'll put this name on just to show you that I actually AM someone else and not those other anons. I've said it once and I'll say it again.
>it keeps things interesting.Mainly because it gets fucking boring some nights
>>14002911
>if I really upset you so much that you can't function like a rational human being.
>function like a rational human being
No one here is. You, me, the other anons, everyone.
>>14002923
Pretty sure we've already had a moose, and a mouse, and house, and blouse with a douse. But respectable.If things get boring for you, pick any political ideology that's not far right conservatism and post (and defend it) on /pol/.
>>14002928
Now you're just projecting your own faults onto others. Unless you're trying to aim into what a rational person is, then you're just wanting to discuss the finer points of Hobbs and Locke. I'd have to politely direct you to
>>>/lit/ for that.
>>13976436
Are there still standard issue loli's?
>>14002931
That prick Char keps taking the good ones
>>14002894
>Checkmate
The interview was mid-2001. Tomino was working on the Turn A movies. ANT had not yet entered production.
Secondly, "film" in Japanese (as in フィルム, the word they used) refers to the film that things are taped on, not a "movie" version. Don't mix up the languages.
>Unicorn had a Capule, but it clearly looks nothing like the 'Capule' you claim is in G-Reco,
Any time I want to I can post that picture and say "Black_Knight literally cannot refute this picture". You understand that, right? Saying that they don't look alike without actually pointing out how a Kapool is closer to the picture in G-Reco is as good as shitposting.
>If you use the animated error excuse, I'll just say it's a Kapool (Which it is) and the inconsistencies you point out are from animation errors.
I have never used the animated error excuse, that's been you the entire time. I can say that ANT was an animation error and you couldn't prove me wrong. But you cannot claim the work itself has an error unless it has been acknowledged by Sunrise or Tomino specifically. Because it has no backing. It is not proof.
I thought you loved proof but you just love repeating the same thing over and over. It's very irrational for someone so steeped in 'facts'.
>>14002940
And? Just because it's not commenting on what we're talking about doesn't mean it can't be applied. If anything the comment on the movie version being canon sets a precedent. A perfect example is how SEED Movies became the canon version. It was made AFTER the statement was made. If you're trying to weasel out and go by the literal version you should have said 'generally synthetic resin such as a polymer.' Words mean the same regardless of language unless there is something specifically said to separate it. Film in a recorded sense, always means movies. I've never heard of a TV show, which is recorded, be refereed to as a film. Unless it's called a, shock, TV movie. Also he specifically says version. If it's taped on, saying version makes no sense.
The fact you gave me this shillelagh to now beat anyone over the head with whenever people question what the canon version is. It makes everything else moot. But for the sake of good will and to disrupt your other narrative, let's solider on.
I'd prefer to figuratively refute it by noting that you say there are clear differences between the Capule in ZZ and the one in Unicorn. IF we go by your standard of Canon where the latest series takes priority, this means Unicorn is no longer canon because it's the ZZ version of the Capule, and not the Unicorn one. i quote your image where you say 'a slight change in detail'. That's a white washed way of saying animation error. Or are you going to come out with a new version that removed the Unicorn Capule and throw Unicorn under the bus? Also while they haven't acknowledged an error, they haven't denied it either. Works both ways.
I love proof, you just gave me a proverbial nuclear weapon for these debates. And no amount of word play with change that. Nice job there Black_Kocks. You helped to end a debate that has been going on for years here. You should be proud.
>>14002930
>Now you're just projecting your own faults onto others.
>Specifically includes myself in the list of autists
exact quote follows:
>No one here is. You, me, the other anons, everyone.
>me
>>14002970
>always sucking Zeon dick
>uses nuclear weapons for simple debates
Sounds about right.
I will always be here to shut off your nuclear retardation so don't get too cocky, now.
>Just because it's not commenting on what we're talking about doesn't mean it can't be applied
Except that relies on it being a movie, which it doesn't.
>Film in a recorded sense, always means movies. I've never heard of a TV show, which is recorded, be refereed to as a film.
Maybe because you aren't using the Japanese definition of フィルム? In any case animation is still referred to as film. If you say otherwise you are ignoring reality. The only one trying wordplay here is you.
> i quote your image where you say 'a slight change in detail'. That's a white washed way of saying animation error.
Don't put words into my mouth. I've already shown that it isn't to you. You're not going to go anywhere by repeating this.
>Also while they haven't acknowledged an error, they haven't denied it either. Works both ways.
It doesn't, actually. Errors are put on a positive list: Anything included is an error, anything not included is correct. You cannot follow the "error" line of argument.
>You helped to end a debate that has been going on for years here
Try using it in an actual debate and watch yourself get torn apart (as usual) before you backpedal (as usual) and everything remains the same.
Can't pick back up until tomorrow so you have til then to think up some bullshit.
>>14002931
I call bull shit on the portrayal of women in gundam.
Bitches aren't going to be playing hard to get with the greatest pilots in the galaxy
What luxury? Half the time they spend on Earth in any Gundam series is in some desert shithole. Or Hong Kong looking like, well, Hong Kong.
>>14003585
Some people don't realize that Spacenoids are full of shit when they whine about the 'Earth Elite'.
>>13976436
>life of luxury
>>13978557
I have Zeon's noble cause right here.
>>14003616
Check your privledge earthnoid.
>>14003073
The gist of this post is "ZZ is longer and does stuff I don't like, while the Zeta movies are fine - so I know which I prefer". Which doesn't fall in line with "Who cares if I don't like it, that's not the reason I don't support it."
Ask why all the suits in G-Reco bar the Capule/Kapool are from a Zeon focused series - so why would they all be bar one from Turn-A, when it too could be from a Zeon series i.e. ZZ? Why make one from Turn-A in opposition to the rest?
>>13976665
they look cool as hell
they have cool monoeye robots
they look cool as hell
they have sweet uniforms
there are always people who like the villains and 0079 made it clear that the war wasn't entirely black and white and humanised them a lot making it easier to like them
they look cool as hell
they appeal to the love of the underdog/resistance as they are fighting a war of independance against a center of power that exercises authority over them without care, taxation without representation boston tea party etc. At a glance they are american heroes
they look cool as hell
>>14003675
>not including the next scene where degwin asks him if he's heard of hitler
>>14003847
Are you expecting common sense to work when he spits in the face of facts? G-Reco makes Unicorn non-canon if the museum MS is a Capule, but it can't be a Capule because Unicorn is one giant animation error. Oh, and films are the only canon in Gundam because "film" in Japanese obviously means movie, despite him not clearly not knowing Japanese.
>>14003990
>People trying to make arguments about canon on the basis of English language technicalities when the Japanese have the loosest standards for canon continuity in the world and largely give zero shits
wew lads
>>14004021
>Japanese have the loosest standards for canon continuity in the world
This. Tomino and all the directors probably weren't even thinking about canon when they made ZZ
>>14004021
>on the basis of the technicalities of an English loan word in Japanese
ftfy
At first I thought Kocks was trying to prove that he was being stupid but he got caught up in the argument so really nothing is worth saving here.
>>14004038
Japanese don't talk about canon, they talk about official. And even then, not much. The "everything animated is canon" line came from a series producer (rather than Sunrise themselves) in a magazine interview back about 2000 and he was referring solely to units: mobile suits, mobile armors, ships etc and not shows. He was only talking about which suits were considered official and which weren't, not which shows. Since that was probably outside his authority or interest.
Note: he was referring to official, not canon. Sunrise, Bandai nor Tomino have ever made any announcement regarding canon or officialness to my knowledge. They've no reason to. And if they haven't, it's not true no matter how much you disagree. Not that Tomino could, since he is, in his own words, a "work for hire" director on all his Gundam works and has no say either way.
>>13976436
>life of luxury as an earthnoid
there is no such thing
>>14004071
He's also perfectly happy to make nonsense declarations as to what is 'canon' just because he likes to fuck with people. See the G-reco timeline placement he stated.
>>14004114
Do tell. What did he say? I think I'm becoming a gossip hound.
>>13976457
>Dont do anything Char wouldn't do.
But there's nothing Char wouldn't do...
>>14004122
He put Greco 500 years after turn a, and that absurdly closely to UC.
>>13976436
>Would you give up your life of luxury as an earthnoid to join the glorious Principality of Zeon?
kek, no.
>Would you give up your life of luxury as an earthnoid to fight the corrupt Principality of Zeon?
In a heartbeat.
>>14004128
Well, G-Reco Is 500 years after Turn-A according to Tomino. He's never commented on how long after UC G-Reco is, but Turn lists it as either 5, 000 or 10,000 years - depending on whether you go by the movies or TV show.
>>13976691
>psychoframe
except "psycoframe" didn't appear until UC 0093
if you meant "psycommu", the original gundam was not equipped with anything that would enhance newtype potential.
>Char didnt need to dope.
except by your logic piloting something outfitted with psycommu would count as doping, so by piloting the Zeong, Char inherently has an advantage in newtype power. Please stop sucking Char's dick, leave this website, and kill yourself you ignorant bedwetter.
>>14003073
First off, you should let Black_Kock defend his own points. Second, there's no reason to get vulgar. It only does a disservice to yourself. Are you telling me A New Translation, which is called a movie trilogy, is not a movie? Or that any sort of animation is considered film which then leads back to the Anime Ja Nai? You have a massive inconvenient truth laid at your feet so you're going to use every single language technicality to keep your head buried in sand now to say 'nu huh, that doesn't count'. I'm just repeating what Black_Kock put on his little infograph. Any changes in details is either makes it a different suit or an animation error, while your second argument doesn't make sense. The only way you have even a remote chance of turning this around is by getting Tomino to disavow A New Translation. Good luck with that.
>>14003847
Obvious Strawman the post is obvious. But pointing out common sense reasons as to why it's better to go from A New Translation to Char's Counter Attack means 'ZOMG HE HATES IT' I already refuted that dishonest line of attack to boot. Are you not reading your own posts? You should.
Also remember that Sunrise has come out and said the film version, aka movies are the official version.
>堀口:“フィルム化されたもの”がオフィシャル。
>Horiguchi: "film version" is official
>>14004071
>>14004038
>>14004033
>>14004021
Self circle jerking damage control over knowing what words means. If people were misinterpreting it, they had 15 years to clarify it. Clearly there wasn't a need to and all you can rely on 'Well canon doesn't count'. If that's the case why would Tomino even bother to place G-Reco in the timeline? Oh right 'He's just a big, silly troll'
Excuse me while I chortle at you.
>>14005249
>Charlie Sheen
How appropriate Black Knight
>>14005249
> https://web.archive.org/web/20070820005613/http://f16.aaa.livedoor.jp/~robo/library/ichigodaifuku/ichigodaifuku-1.htm
There's the article in question in case you need proof. No mention of canon and they only talk about games. You could find Sunrsise mentioning canon if you wanted to prove otherwise, but since you can't speak Japanese that'd be a bit hard.
Also funny that you give out about technicalities and misinterpretation when you use Anime Ja Nai as proof of a point regarding canon. G-Reco also doesn't change anything no matter it's place in the timeline. It certainly doesn't retcon anything. The most it does is show that Tomino still recognizes his work on ZZ since the museum has to have a Capule given all the other suits are from Zeon era shows.
>>13976773
I insulted it, you oblivious fucktard.
>Joining space nazi losers
>Filled to the brim with posh nobles passing off as officers that get everyone around them killed, and are so vapid and devoid of honor and loyalty that they'll kill their own family through the most cowardly means possible just to temporarily advance their own position.
>Even as their nation is on the brink of annihilation.
Is anything more pathetic than a Zeon fag? Also your uniforms look stupid as fuck. Who thought it was a good idea to put baby bibs on, and dorky looking helmets? Also, take off all the masks and veils and shit you pussies.
>>14002136
What does a picture of Ratsel have to do with Elzam?
>>14005249
I am him, I just kept having to take off my name to post anonymously on an anonymous image board and forgot to put it back on once. It was pretty obvious.
フィルム =/= movie
Anime Ja Nai doesn't matter because whether ZZ is anime or not, it's still on film, or was filmed, or is footage, no matter what way you translate it.
You have an argument built on technicalities that STILL don't hold water unless you argue for a bad translation of a language you don't know, leaving your usual trolling tactics useless.
Bandai said that the Unicorn MS was a Capule from Haman's Neo Zeon. I never said and it is not an animation error.
Until Tomino says that it's an animation error, you can't argue that it is. Otherwise I could claim that all the Kapools in Turn A are just Capules with animation errors. But I won't, because nobody from Sunrise or Bandai has claimed that there are animation errors present.
>>14006802
Forgot what my name was, don't start going autismo about it. On my phone I can't read other posts while replying.
>>14006366
I'm amused at how your argument has pivoted to 'You need to be fluent in the language you're presenting to be have it be creditable evidence.' Although what I'm using is a direct quote, can't get more cut and dry than that. More likely it shows he had a personal preference towards the Kapool design since that's why he included it in Turn-A to begin with and had another reason to put it in another series. But both yours and my explanation are pure conjecture in regards to the Kapool since there is no direct evidence.
>>14006802
>>14006875
So a direct translation is now bad, I didn't know you, anonymous and maybe anonymoose were all fluent in Japanese to say otherwise. Also you're the one who makes an incredible leap of logic to assume your wordplay white washes the whole reason. he specifically used the word 'film version'. But if you want to say TV film exists. I'll begrudgingly agree it is a real thing.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Television_filmBut it only strengthens my side further.
So Sunrise claims the Capules in Unicorn come from ZZ. you do realize that's a complete contradiction then to the 'Capules' that is in G-Reco? Since they look nothing alike. Also Anonymous, and maybe yourself loves to claim that the latest series takes precedent in canon. If that's the case, Unicorn has to be removed from canon due to the conflicting design. This is going by the logic put forward by people here to discredit A New Translation.
No reason to grumble and act like a cowardly dog, show some conviction in your words if you think you'll ever get me to concede defeat by putting name to your words. Also this whole endeavor is clearly upsetting for you, but to show rapport, I'll let your mistyping of your name go to make you feel better. Although you admitting to be a phone poster is some telling information. But that's for an entirely different issue plaguing 4chan.
But I will have some fun with words when you wrote
>Bandai said that the Unicorn MS was a Capule
This implies that Bandai is saying the Gundam Unicorn is actually a Capule. That's some design magic right there.
>>14007379
>Unicorn MS
>Unicorn Mobile Suit
>As in, Mobile Suit from Gundam Unicorn
>As directly opposed to the Mobile Suit that is the Gundam Unicorn
Are you deliberately being selective and obtuse, or are you just naturally braindead?
>>14007375
I'm arguing that you're so ignorant of the language that you're using an incorrect translation. The word "film" is not the same as the Japanese word フィルム, despite what google translate says. If you'll notice, the translation (done by an actual translator) uses the word footage. You are not using a direct quote because it is translated, making it indirect.
>More likely
Or maybe it corresponds with the ZZ line art of the Capule and not the Turn-A line art of the Kapool. This is direct evidence.
It's not a direct translation, it's a machine translation of Japanese. It does not have anything to do with a movie or TV movie.
Unicorn says they have Capules, you cannot argue this point.
G-Reco has the Capule, it is exactly represented in the line art.
There is no contradiction, you switched from "the MS in G-Reco is a Kapool because it's an animation error!" to "it's clearly a Kapool because Tomino didn't say it wasn't!".
>he was actually going to mention the name
Just proves how autistic you're being.
I'm phone posting because I can't be at my computer right now. I'm still less of a plague to 4chan than tripfags like you but that's not what we're discussing.
>>14007402
>I hate word play and no fun is allowed in these super serious discussions.
>>14007587
Well your entire source on this is entirely your ass because from the website with the interview YOU, YOURSELF posted. there is no english translation on the stie, the only real moment of English was "●『GUNDAM TACTICS−MOBILITY FLEET 0079−』(1996年・PiPPin ATMARK/Macintosh/Windows" So you don't even have plausible deniability in this case. There is no other way to look around this. It says film.
Also like Black_Kock, you keep trying to have it both ways with the 'Capule'. It's clearly not the same type that was featured in Unicorn, but you keep claiming that doesn't matter even though one of your chief arguments was Unicorn makes A New Translation not canon because because it come out later. The 'Capule' in G-Reco is a massive contradiction to that since it's clearly not from Unicorn.
Oh no, no, no, don't try and deflect how much damage mobile posters have done to 4chan over the years. Of course since you are one you'd be blind to that. You can whine about tripfags all you want, but they've been here since day one and since people like yourself have no self control, they even included a way to filter them. Sadly since you hide behind a phone and anonymity I'm not even given the option to filter your shitposting, so I find it more productive to call out pathological liars such as yourself who's chief motivation isn't to find the truth, but is spite.
So if I recall correctly, Faggot Knight says TV Zeta isn't canon, ANT is, CCA follows ANT, and ZZ and Unicorn follow TV Zeta in a non-canon timeline (whatever the fuck that means).
Even though Unicorn relies on both ZZ and CCA being canon in the same story line to make a lick of sense.
How does he manage to turn on a computer, again?
I wonder what his totally objectively correct opinion on Turn A's black history is.
>>14004123
Would he legalize it?
I think everyone would be a lot more chill
>>14011032
char would legalize itif by it you mean pedophilia
>>14009220
Outside of the insults and and trite image marco, I've already explained how the TV and Movie timelines work. For your benefit
TV timeline = MSG tv -> Zeta tv -> ZZ -> CCA -> Unicorn = Non-canon timeline
Movie Timeline = Mobile Suit Gundam: the movies -> MSZG: A New Translation -> CCA = canon timeline.
>>14011215
You seem like a reasonable authority who's never flown off the handle over trivial things, I'll believe you.
>>14009208
http://otakurevolution.com/content/gundam-what-sunrise-thinks-is-official
I think I posted it last thread but I guess you didn't read it. If I didn't then my mistake.
I'd like to know how you would argue how an actual translator would purposely word it to make it understood that it is the footage itself, not being a movie, that makes it official (or canon, take your pick), and how you would understand the sentence in Japanese better than him. Other languages take loan words all the time but they have very different connotations, so "film" in Japanese is not the same as film in English.
>Also like Black_Kock, you keep trying to have it both ways with the 'Capule'. It's clearly not the same type that was featured in Unicorn, but you keep claiming that doesn't matter even though one of your chief arguments was Unicorn makes A New Translation not canon because because it come out later. The 'Capule' in G-Reco is a massive contradiction to that since it's clearly not from Unicorn.
Except it clearly is. The one and only difference you pointed out was a tiny difference in how raised a part was compared to line art. Everything in Unicorn was updated to look nicer in the novels. This style was carried over to the anime. They are still the same MS. If you want to prove me wrong then state SPECIFICALLY what is changed. Otherwise you can keep saying it isn't and I'll keep saying it is. The evidence only supports one of us, however.
I'm not a mobile poster usually, I lurk. I'm not going to argue how cancerous any group has been in the interest of staying on topic. I will just say that I'm not arguing in spite or shitposting.
4chan is not about trips and filtering, it's about anonymity. If you want to always argue with a personality then use a different website.
>>14011222
I have always been extremely reasonable unlike certain individuals in the opposition.
>>14011227
>the great Mark Simmons
>frog-kun
These red flags are casting doubt three times faster.
Also you're insisting on getting a translation by a person, when people bring a personal bias as opposed to a machine. Maybe it's just a giant coincidence, but the name, and timing peek my interest. Also unless the translation turns into Backstroke of the West, you can't just hand wave it. Although the damage of using the word 'film' means that if you go by previous arguments the opposition has made in regards to canon vs official. What you posted is even more damaging because it means ZZ is not even official anymore, let alone canon. Pretty sure the definitions of words are going to be the same regardless of language outside of some minor quirks, otherwise what's the point of trying to do translations in the first place?
Except it's not, if they WERE updated, they should have kept the update for the sake of consistency. But they didn't, now since you're wanting to discuss language more, what is the opposite of consistent? So yes, the evidence supports of us. Me.
The fact you nonchalantly were throwing insults around makes me question your credibility regarding you are arguing not out of spite or to shitpost. Also when you start to put a vested interest and a continued debate about something it's basic respect to identify yourself. If you are just giving an opinion or an idea. Anonymity is perfectly justifiable. But when all people do is abuse it by shitposting and spreading lies. Well I can't really defend that.
>>14011227
>I think I posted it last thread
Found it, although it was for a different purpose. My mistake for assuming you read the part about footage.
>>13954543
>>14011373
It's a translation, not an opinion. He didn't write it like that specifically in order to undermine the long-held perception that the films are official. He wrote it as footage because the context implies that.
If machine translations could pick up on that kind of context then we wouldn't have a need for translators, but they can't, which is why English-Japanese machine translations are garbage.
>if it isn't as inaccurate than Duwang Wars then acknowledge it!
No. It says film, which is already in the original Japanese as "firumu". You're taking a sentence that means "the version on film [as opposed to manga, MSV manuals, games, etc.] is official" and turning it into "the film [aka movie] version [as opposed to anything else Bandai/Sunrise has produced in 36 or so years] is official". Who are you to say that a translator is wrong, with no knowledge of Japanese?
>Although the damage
You've said canon vs official doesn't really matter, no need to bring it up.
>Pretty sure the definitions of words are going to be the same regardless of language outside of some minor quirks, otherwise what's the point of trying to do translations in the first place?
But again, you're missing the context which implies it is "the version on film/that was filmed" and not "the film (movie) version". Just like English, words have more than one meaning. And that's a pretty simple view of language. A good example: Kawaii does not translate straight into "cute". It's simply the closest approximate and is easy to understand and doesn't need explaining.
>>14011373
The chest things were updated for Unicorn, which had all the suits in it drawn by a different artist. It's still a Capule. Then G-Reco, which is by Tomino, who has no obligation to use Unicorn's style, had them drawn closer to the original line art of the Capule.
Unicorn updated the style FOR UNICORN, which was a novel. If you check any other side story or novel you'll find that the artist doesn't copy Okawara's (or the original artist in question's) line art. It's artistic license. Then when animating it, the animators keep to the style of the novel/side story.
It is not artistic license to put all the Capule's features on a Kapool and call it a Kapool, however. Which is what you claim happened.
>>14011215
But that's wrong.
>>14011215
Wait what the fuck
Has BlackKnight begun arguing that the original tv shows aren't canon to themselves?
>>14011888
Since this thread. He took a quote from the other anon and is using it (incorrectly, obviously) to "prove" that he is right.
>>14011692
>>14011888
>>14011960
Samefag aside I adopted the TV/Movie timelines a while back. It's just 'Horiguchi: film version is official' really shut the book on it.
>>14011623
>>14011620
I'll get to you later Black_Kock, granted we are going around in circles at this point, but I'll humor you still. Just reveling in more pressing events and not make you feel lonely since you're putting so much time into me.
>>14012828
That picture reads like an explanation of your posting style. It's fun.
>>14012828
Don't worry, I understand that real life comes before shitposting. Just don't run away like last time.
>>14011620
Once again you're using a subjective translator and claiming it's objective. A person will always bring their personal bias into translations, a machine will not. Also looking up the word itself that was used.
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E3%83%95%E3%82%A3%E3%83%AB%E3%83%A0#Japanese
>cinema, that is, film or movies as a group
>a thin membrane
>camera film
Now unless he's talking about thin Membrane or camera film, you don't have anything to stand on. You just want to weasel away from the catastrophic mistake saying 'oh, he didn't REALLY mean that'. Also I just brought it up again because it's just good policy to just wipe out all the talking points of the opposition. Just like if I were to attack the Federation, I'd wipe out all their garrisons that are in a stone throw of my homeland and then make sure they couldn't be used against me at a later date by making the entire area uninhabitable. It's common sense really. I just wish more people here had that. Also you're digging further and further into trying to create a technicality to absolve yourself from your massive blunder. The kawaii example holds zero weight because it says right in the definition "quality of". firumu has no such similar issue. Also a whole bunch of writing that doesn't prove anything in regards to the Kapool in G-Reco. I know I put you inbetween a rock a hard, but it's up to the animators to keep things consistant. Otherwise what's to stop them from giving all Zakus two eyes in future Gundam series?
>>14012867
I'm always here, it's you people that always runs off when you can't stand the heat from the Solar Ray. Just look at how anonymous' will is eroding again into mindless shitposting again. How long will you last I wonder?
>>14012857
Well I am using Purple, blue and green to counter the misinformation that's flowing around While you are using Red, Orange and Yellow only. Nothing wrong with smug.
>>14015221
>A person will always bring their personal bias into translations, a machine will not.
But everyone knows that machine translations are incredibly faulty and unreliable
>>14015240
>堀口:“フィルム化されたもの”がオフィシャル。
>Horiguchi: "film version" is official
Show me the flaws here that doesn't bring in a personal bias then.
>Black_Fuckface is too mentally inept to understand why machine translations are not a reputable source of information
>>14015249
Yes, and in Japanese firumu refers to literal film. Basically they're saying all animated stuff is official, not mangas or the video games or whatever.
Go ask the Japanese thread on /a/, they know much more about it than you do
>>>/a/138836415
>>14015221
>>cinema, that is, film or movies as a group
>>cinema, that is, film
>>film (in contrast to 'films' which would have paired it with 'as a group', which would have made it a synonym to 'movie')
In other words:
Used: [film] or [movies as a group]
vs
Not used: [film(s) or movies] [as a group]
It is saying that film is a definition. In other words, anything that is on film or has been filmed. In other words, what I've been saying this whole time. I'm sorry that English is hard for you to understand too.
>[muted SEIG ZEON heard amidst furious wanking, contemplative gas plays in the colony]
I'm not going to follow you into an argument about Feddies vs Zeon because you're obviously trying to derail the conversation. I never mentioned official or canon mattering, I specifically said you could take your pick because it doesn't matter.
>machine translators are good
Again. Machine translations cannot translate subtleties in differences of meaning between languages and cannot pick up on context or intent.
>>14015450
>Also a whole bunch of writing that doesn't prove anything in regards to the Kapool in G-Reco. I know I put you inbetween a rock a hard, but it's up to the animators to keep things consistant. Otherwise what's to stop them from giving all Zakus two eyes in future Gundam series?
It's up to Bandai, actually. They approve the line art that is used in the series. The animators work off of the line art. So if Bandai wants to give a Zaku two eyes then you're going to take it and you're going to like it. That's all it comes down to. Bandai approved of Unicorn's Capule line art from the novel. Tomino had the Capule storyboarded as a Capule. It is consistent and no amount of whining and ignoring the argument will change that.
I congratulate you for remaining in the Green this post. You've slipped down to Yellow a few times before this. Now all you have to do to reach Blue is find evidence that actually refutes me.
>>14015450
>>14015454
Oops. Forgot my name.
>>14015413
Thanks, anon.
>everyone arguing about the exact meaning of "film"
>Tomino has stated outright that there is series continuity and movie continuity and neither of them has been elevated above the other
>people are arguing with B_K instead of laughing at him
Even if anyone were to ever get him to admit that he was wrong about *anything*, you don't win a prize for it. In fact, the ONLY person you're making happy by arguing with him is B_K.
Similarly, there is neither penalty for nor shame in having B_K disagree with you. The only possible rational reasoning behind his absurd assertions is to provoke you into responding.
