Wolfster edition
Recommendation
>Fantasy
Selected: http://i.imgur.com/3v2oXAY.jpg/
General: http://i.imgur.com/igBYngL.jpg/
Flowchart: http://i.imgur.com/uykqKJn.jpg/
>Sci-Fi
Selected: http://i.imgur.com/A96mTQX.jpg/
General: http://i.imgur.com/r55ODlL.jpg/ / http://i.imgur.com/gNTrDmc.jpg/
>favorite Wolfe novel
>favorite Wolfe short story
First for Brent Weeks, Patrick Rothfuss and Brandon Sanderson
Any good new books that are not a series and like <400 pages?
I know that's asking for a lot, not expecting any replies.
>>8110781
>Patrick Rothfuss
Why?
>>8110785
https://www.goodreads.com/new_releases/2016/6
>>8110785
The Dragons Of Babel.
Shit, does 2008 count as new?
>>8110794
>that feel when you're an adult and consider everything past 2000 new
>mfw the only Wolfe books my local book store has are The Knight, like 5 copies of Peace, and A Borrowed Man
>>8110825
Listen man, I like Swanwick and I love that book, but your relentless shilling isn't doing us any favors.
I don't want IDD to become a meme. It deserves better than that.
>>8110785
The Dragon Waiting
>>8110831
GW considers Peace his best work so dont skip that one
>>8110832
There he goes again.
Fuck off.
>>8110832
It'd be nice if he elaborated on it more often. I'm thinking of making copypastas for frequently inquired books.
>>8110785
is there a reason every response to this is something with 'dragon' in the title?
anyway, I'd suggest shades of grey by fforde
>>8110851
>shades of grey
ehhhh no?
>>8110785
The Eyes of the Dragon, 427 pages
>>8110856
why no? are you confusing it with another book of a similar title?
>>8110856
Have you read it? It's quite good.
>>8110897
It´s shitty erotica for women
Is it possible to filter out books in goodreads? I Don't want female authors
>>8110917
Why are you such an misogynist? Are you mad that women prefer black men to you?
>>8110917
Try not visiting that awful site, or just using it for the occasional review.
>>8110785
The City of Dreaming Books
>>8110917
Is it possible to filter out posts on 4chan? I Don't want whiny bitches
>>8110931
You wouldn't be able to see your own posts then...
>Procrastinating on reading Malazan by studying for the exam
Am I confused or shouldn't it be the other way around
>>8110901
Are you trolling or really this retarded?
>>8110939
That's fine, I already have to live with myself.
>>8110851
>I'd suggest shades of grey by fforde
Great book.
>>8110945
Interesting. I'm procrastinating on reading Malazan by reading Great Documents of Western Civilization.
>>8110901
You must be thinking of "50 Shades of Grey", asshat.
"Shades of Grey" is dystopian novel by Jasper Fforde.
Anyone read R scott bakker? I hear there's a new book comming out, dunno what to think.
>>8110989
One of the better new gen authors, I recommend him.
>>8110989
The Unholy Consult are pretty cool guys
Especially if you're a fan of black semen and literally perfect trapfus
>>8110831
Only wolfe books at my store is Sword of the Lictor, The Land Across, and the copy of Devil in a Forest I bought.
What books are you looking forward to this year?
>>8111298
None.
>>8111300
correct answer
>>8111298
The Great Ordeal comes out in 34 days
Get fucking hyped
>>8111298
Blood Mirror
Hopefully Winds of Winter but no way it's getting out this year
>>8111298
Baldr;Heart and Senmono
I'm glad Shades of Grey is finally getting some love.
It's like a dystopian Lightbringer except much more creative, with better prose and a touch of existential horror.MAN EATING ROADS
>>8111371
>It's like a dystopian Lightbringer
But does it have magic?
If so, what is it like?
>>8111375
There's no magic (it's scifi rather than fantasy). It's similar to Lightbringer because of the heavy focus on colours and the properties that they possess and the importance of colour to their society.
>>8111382
That's a shame.
I'll give it a look when I feel the need for some scifi
I know it's a corny selection, and I'll probably get lambasted, but I really really want to re-read the Frank Herbert Dune series again.
So are dumping art
>>8111665
>You will never watch Jodorowsky's Dune
>>8111682
We're living in a world of unfulfilled dreams and fulfilled nightmares.
gonna reread it now.
>>8111718
How can you reread things after you already know what happens?
>>8110785
Any sf written before the 90s
Multi volume bricks are a recent development
>>8111725
He said new books though.
Come at me bro
>>8111737
oh look its my flashdrive
>>8111737
That's an old one, since added a borrowed man
>>8111720
For fun. Dune is a special series in my heart, it just becomes easier for me to visualize the longer I go on, more art I get into. Challenging myself to reimagine it differently.
>>8111750
How can you read a non GRI approved book?
>>8111750
He's probably baiting. Anyone whose read more than 5 books in their life knows that there are many books well worth the re-read, and truly, you dont even really know a book until you've read it multiple times.
>>8111753
Because I like reading. I haven't read Dune through Chapterhouse in around four years.
>>8111737
>Latro books arent together
>Shitty editions of BOTNS
>Shitty edition of Amber
>Shitty edition of 5HOC
At least you have the superior version of The Wizard Knight
>>8111753
Not everyone likes GRI you know
>>8111758
I'm not baiting, I haven't reread any book, the same way that I can't rewatch movies, it's just so boring, since you know everything that happens
>>8111766
The Latro books aren't together because the books are arranged in chronological order of publication you fucking retard
Gollanz fantasy and sf masterworks was not shitty, troll harder
>>8111779
I guess if plot is all you care about that's it then, not saying its bad, but that's as far as you can get with a book if that's your only focus.
>>8111779
When you first read a book as a child, you do your best to visualize it through the eye of film. The more aware you become of art history, or just art in general, the more you can see what an author is going for in terms of visuals.
Dune is drenched in just a smash of Baroque and Art Nouveau imagery. It'd be neat to reread it from that point, and get a better idea of what Herbert saw this convoluted and beautiful fantastical civilization looking like civilization
I've read through all the books except for his shit sons three times. I feel like I'm at a point where I'd like to reread them again to just, come up with a different memory of them. Something more beautiful in my mind's eye I guess.
>>8111779
Fifteen year old detected.
>>8111797
>Dune is drenched in just a smash of Baroque and Art Nouveau imagery.
Post some examples. I never imagined Dune through the lens of film but of orientalist, romantic and historical oil paintings. Only read the series once so it would be interesting to revisit it with a new perspective.
>>8111825
I have no real current reason to assume this is what he was going for, but I see a lot of Alphonse Mucha in the character descriptions. As for the Baroque it depends on the setting. I see a lot of it in the more higher houses, like Corrino and Atreides. I still see orientalism in the more exotic locales, but there's so much clashing setting, it makes it an interesting reread.
I can't get out of my head Paul looking like Mucha's depiction of Sarah Bernhardt playing Lorenzo de' Medici, from Alfred de Musset's Lorenzo
>>8111837
>you will never have a bro like samwise
>>8111825
I gave Dune a very Renaissance and Byzantine meets Star Wars look when I read it.
>>8111837
Why is Tolkien so based?
And why is all other fantasy so shit in comparison?
>>8111298
The Vindication of Man
>>8111881
They're only shit when they try to be Tolkien.
>>8111873
>Renaissance and Byzantine meets Star Wars
I always imagined it similar to the aesthetic of the prequels, particularly Naboo and the Jedi temple
God there are so many great ideas of Lady Jessica in Mucha's commercial art.
Not to drone on and on but I see a lot of Gustave Klimt in depictions of, Princesses, the Bene Gesserit. Royalty and so on so forth. Less as obvious as Lynch made them as Nuns of some sort, and more as they were described being easily to meld into Lansraad aristocracy. Having their own uniforms would defeat the purpose.
>>8111881
>Why is Tolkien so based?
I think there are many reasons, his education, fulfilling life, faith, slight autism and so forth all resulting in a very comfy author who wrote a great mythological work.
https://youtu.be/Tz9cETyteww
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m4SwFhfNh1w
>>8111889
true/100
I've been reading Lovecraft's Dream Cycle and I want more in a similar vein, any recommendations? It's so different from contemporary fantasy.
>>8111799
23 actually
>>8111793
Yes I do care most about the plot, and what happens. Most of the subtext is lost on me, though sometimes I see references or metaphors about nazism, totalitarianism or any kind of feminist ideology being painted in a bad light somehow, even if subtly, which pisses me off. For example the instant travel in Stormlight Archives is a very clear reference to having open borders and it being a positive thing while the ones who are shardbearers (the one with the spren alive) are the ones controlling it ie the global elite
>>8112109
The person who influenced his Dream Cycle, Lord Dunsany.
>>8111889
Fucking Shannara series, good attempt but not enough, it felt like a complete LOTR rip off
Not sure if this has been posted, but here's a link to a podcast that talks about Lovecraftian/weird fiction and interviews current authors who write it. It can get pretty in-depth.
>>8112140
Wow thanks I listen to that show every day it's really great.
>>8112140
Great podcast, thanks for linking it I'm loving it already
>>8111963
Okay, now I have to reread Dune.
>>8112140
Amazing stuff.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pn1riJSHhkY
>>8112140
Do they discuss/interview Ligotti?
>>8112109
I thought his Dream Cycle was tepid. However, I want to be more open minded. Can you tell me what draws you to it, and what I might be missing out on?
now that poor anon forgot to post the link to his podcast, do you guys know any other podcasts centered on books?
bonus points if /sfft/
>>8112238
>Can you tell me what draws you to it
It's like reading a dream journal, there's this otherworldliness to the stories that I really enjoy.
>>8112283
I think the one they meant may have been
http://hppodcraft.com/
>>8112300
>good audio
>nice production values
I like
>>8110917
Why?
>>8112358
They suck.
>>8111371
>someone else thought of man-eating roads
At least I've got a million and a half other original ideas.
>>8112291
Ah, I may have been spoiled on the French poets and every anime ever, but having read a biography on Lovecraft, I may now have a better handle on what measures he had intended. I read it knowing that it was a trial run that hadn't been polished, and wasn't meant to be published. Despite that misgiving, overall his imagery and execution didn't resonate with me. I think I would have liked it more had he synthesized Dunsany with Milton, who was a much more exciting hypochondriac.
As far as his non-cosmic creations go, I really like his nightgaunts. They're thematically distinct from Christian demons and gargoyles, and are a perfect inversion of guardian angels (apropos to Lovecraft being born blonde).
>>8112358
They can't ignore their own genitals long enough to write a compelling or interesting narrative.
It's always "Muh gender politics, muh emotional rollercoaster, muh sooper strong independent womyn that don' nee' no man but she also super attractive, successful, strong etc. repeat ad nauseam.
>>8112441
Yeah, they keep writing about their vaginas for some reason. Penis envy is real.
>>8111963
If you can, do post extracts from the novel to make your case. I read Dune this year and with my limited insight, could not detect anything artful about the prose.
>>8111298
Deaths end.
>>8112613
This, so much this.
3body is one of the very few scifi series I've been anxious to read.
I just finished the Southern Reach trilogy. I enjoyed it for the most part, for the prose, the creepy surreal atmosphere, and the mystery. A few times, though, I got pulled out of it when the asides and stream of consciousness crossed the border into inane navel gazing. And I was slightly disappointed that the third book basically spoon feeds you some of the answers. I give it a solid 8/10 though. It's not perfect but I'll probably revisit it at some point.
The film adaptation by Alex Garland looks decent, but the backstory is altered a bit and I'm worried about the characters being given names. But maybe they'll address that by displaying the training process and strip them of their names there.
What do you think of the Southern Reach books? Thoughts on its filmability?
Starting Too Like the Lightning, I can't remember the last time I was this excited about a new release.
>>8110780
Your flowchart sucks.
Just let the kids watch Lord of the Rings and throw a bunch of R.A. Salvatore and Terry Pratchett books their way.
>>8111298
Someone said none before me and he was correct.
>>8112161
looks really gay
>>8111737
What's wolfe's worst popular book?
>>8113190
It's significantly worse. It's his worst long novel honestly. Not bad, just needed to be shortened.
Short Sun on the other had has been quite a ride and it feels good having the feeling of Wolfe making an ass out of me, because the reveal was clear ad day 400 pages before.
Was a pretty good read when I was a "young adult"
Any fantasy that's good and has a female as the primary protag?
>>8113305
There are conflicting opinions on this, but many people enjoyed the Mistborn trilogy, including me.
>>8113314
Do you eat shit?
>>8113315
No, actually.
How rude.
>>8113314
I think that the best description of Sanderson is a comparison- reading him is like anal sex without any lubricant.
It's nasty, but some people with a scatological fetish like it.
>>8111298
The new Bakker
Are there any newish works with a grand chiastic structure?
>>8110789
Despite being probably the worst author of all time, he has written some fairly compelling books
>>8111598
Nothin' wrong with all of the solo author dunes, anon.
>>8113485
>compelling
Wonder if I should bid on an ARC of The Great Ordeal on Ebay
A few went for like 150$, kek.
>>8113577
And a few went for $15 - $30 since the sellers didn't put it up for auction. Fuck that I missed those.
I'll probably wait until it's released and try to get a copy after that. Only collectors are after ARCs after release, so it'll likely be cheaper then.
>>8110785
Dragon in Chains by Daniel Fox
>>8113638
>Dragon
S T O P
T
O
P
>>8112370
Please keep theman eating roadsin, I love them ;_;
>>8113461
Nothing?
>>8113497
I was going to buy this over Mistborn for some reason.
When I heard the words "Harry Potter", I bought Mistborn.
Best decision I've ever made.
>>8113720
Just download an ebook for FREE?
>>8113720
>ever
That's some pretty non significant decisions you're making, then. Also Mistborn is shit as well.
>>8113497
How can the book be bad if the series has such a huge following on reddit?
Even more so than Lightbringer
Rothfuss > Breeks?
>>8113723
I could, but I'm not reading it in English anon.
>>8113725
Since when has popularity to do with quality? And Breeks is just as bad.
>>8113727
>but I'm not reading it in English anon.
Why?
Translations suck ass
>>8113731
Not always. It really depends on the type of writing and language it is translated to.
>>8113725
>Harry Potter is good
>there will never be a Book of the New Sun anime
>>8111825
The original drawings that accompanied its magazine serialisation are the best depiction of the world
>>8113731
funny thing, first time I read the Name of the Wind I did it in spanish, I considered it pretty entertaining at the time, and then I forgot about it.
then I started browsing /lit/ and saw everyone hating it, I decided to pick it up again in english to see if it was really that bad and it felt like a bit of a chore
wonder if the translation was better than the actual book, shame I cant find the one in spanish.
>>8113754
John Schoenherr
>>8113767
Nice
Name 1 fantasy author that is unanimously loved by /sffg/YOU CAN'T
>>8113741
>Not always.
I remember reading the back of a Mistborn(?) translation in my language and "shardplate" was translated to pretty much what would literally translate back into English as "crystalarmors" (In one word, too.)
Maybe they're not always shit in the case of languages that are related to English, but other than that you can almost guarantee that It'll be bad.
>>8113779
Pringles man
>>8113779
What if I name one only I have read, making it unanimous?
Check mate theists.
>>8113786
>Mistborn(?)
My bad, that was Stormlight.
>>8113779
The one who wrote Iron dragon's daughter.
>>8113779
John Locke.
What are the best fantasy books with a false protagonist?
>>8113793
is shit
>>8113797
What do you mean?
>>8111737
>Dinosaur in his prime caring for his clutch
>>8113808
>What do you mean?
Perhaps he's talking about books that lead you to believe a character that is getting the most exposure is the protagonist only to have him killed or leave the narrative and be replaced with the intended protagonist.
>>8113808
False protagonist is when a work of fiction fools you into believing somebody is the main protagonist when he is in fact not and later gets replaced by the real protag.
>>8113809
What did he he mean by this
>>8113817
Learn your memes lad.
>>8113819
>ASOIAF
>Best anything
Memes and shitposting aside: I believe that ASOIAF is decent, but should never be considered the best fantasy series out there under any circumstance. The fact that so many people do, however, proves that either a) The industry is in a rut, or b) Normies have shit taste and there's nothing we can do.
>>8113305
BLACK JEWEL TRILOGY
YOU COULD NOT HAVE FINISHED ALL 3 BOOKS ALREADY. IF I SEE YOU ASK AGAIN I WILL REPORT YOUR ASS.
>>8113746
That doesn't put me in despair, as much of BotNS's literary merits would be lost on a visual medium.
You may have already seen these, but these are analogous:
Angel's Egg
Magnetic Rose
Texhnolyze
Ghost in the Shell
>>8113854
have you considered the fact that normies dont read enough books on the genre to develop muh sophisticated taste
>>8113725
Because It's a incredibly simple read, It combined every hook and trope casual readers LOVE.
Here's a better question, why hasn't anybody noticed the ridiculously massive parallels the different magic systems featured in the books has to popular anime? for example sympathy is ripped straight out of Toaru Majutsu no Index word for word.
>>8113854
Could easily be the best for enjoyment. It's just fun to read, moreso than majority of other books
>>8113857
Thank you.
>>8113854
Try both.
That fantasy is represented by front men like Martin, Sanderson, Erikson, Abercrombie, and Rothfuss is truly woeful. I hate all of them.
>>8113880
What's sympathy? Haven't read the books, but a fan of Index.
Anyone here read the light novels for it by the way? It's basically Science meets Magic/Church which is pretty cool.
>>8113880
>sympathy is ripped straight out of Toaru Majutsu no Index
Not everyone is an anime aficionado, i never heard of that series. Back to /a/ with your elist attitude and report naruto threads EVEN THOUGH THEY ARE VERY ON TOPIC, but leave shit piece, and bleach my eyeballs threads alone.
Fucking hate you /a/ scum.
>>8113900
B-But Index is literally one of the most entry level pleb shit out there.
>>8113912
>he reads light "novels"
>>8113900
>triggered Narutard
holy shit my sides
I bet your taste transfers over to books and you only read YA garbage like Sanderson and Red Rising lmao
>>8113928
P-Pls stop
>>8113938
>>8113936
>>8113928
>>8113912
>>8113900
>>8113891
He's right though. Fantasy authors thieve from anime all the time. In Sanderson's Elantris (2005), the Aon magic system is a direct clone the transmutation circles in Fullmetal Alchemist (2001).
Rothfuss is a weeb (muh katanas) and Gaiman references hentai in his novels. There's a lot of overlap between modern fantasy and anime, so get used to it.
>>8113936
Used tomread before I watched anime... well that is not true, seeing as pokemon, digimon, speed racer, dbz, cyborg 009, monster rancher, etc and all those other shit on kids wb, cartoon network and foxkids/fox box eere anime.
>>8113949
So shitty fantasy authors are influenced by anime? What a surprise.
>>8113891
It's quite literally the exact same as "Imitative Magic" and "Infection Magic".
And Rothfuss even managed to include the "Personal Reality" concept in the form of "Alar"; it too functions almost identically.
>>8113969
I'm biased toward believing your claims, but these sound like they might just be coincidental. If you have the time, can you post comparisons of text from both to make your case?
>>8113886
What do you like then, Sherlock of superior taste?
>>8113949
>anime invented everything, so if you make something and it's similar to anime, you are a thief
Just remember that nothing is original, and everything is a rendition of something older.
>>8113964
It is a surprise to many, because some people here actually read, and others watch anime, but not often enough, do both. If the clear lack of insight indicates anything.
I haven't seen anything insightful from you, just pathetic whining. You get a C- for making me respond.
Why doesn't the recommendation chart have Iron Dragon's daughter?
>>8113746
There dosent need to be one.
>>8113949
>Gaiman references hentai in his novels
bible black? or boku no pico?
>>8114009
It's not good.
Just finished Words of Radiance and I need something to occupy me until Oathbringer comes out, anyone read this series? Thoughts?
>>8114017
It is though
The Anvil of Ice is better than ASOIAF
>>8114022
Yeah it's pretty good
>>8114028
Roverandom is better than ASOIAF
>>8113746
>years later people will say that gene wolfe stole the idea for New Sun from anime
This is like teenagers going on old music videos and screaming that someone who released the song 50years ago stole it from a current band with all 20 something year olds, and are screaming for people to report it.
Name 2 fantasy novels that have better prose than The Picture of Dorian Gray
>>8114045
I'm more embarrassed at people thinking anything thats remotely atmospheric is "like BOTNS"
same shit as Soulsfags trying to paste their memes everywhere
>>8113969
They're nothing alike. I've watched/read both. You're perceiving similarities because you don't have enough frame of reference.
>>8114022
>I need something to occupy me until Oathbringer comes out
Best you read all of pic related because you will have to wait till next year November
>>8114054
This is a troll chat, for any newbies that are wondering. Don't get baited.
What do you guys think of The Sun Sword Saga?
>>8114051
Is that fantasy? Sci-fi?
>>>/out/er/lit/
>>8114061
>always do the exact opposite of what /lit/ says
>>8113298
I agree.
>>8114028
Damn, someone has actually read MSR here?
>>8114064
Dorian Gray is fantasy
>>8114054
>that book with a musketeer on the cover
any good fantasy novels that include early firearms?
>>8114061
Half the books discussed in the thread are on there, just because you don't read doesn't mean you have to stop other people from reading. What are you doing here if you don't read, and if you read, what are you doing here if you don't read sff??
>>8114064
>not recognising one of the most well known fantasy books of all time
>>8114083
>it's okay to mix in troll books with non troll books
Nah.
>>8114078
Thousands names and powder mage series
>>8114084
That's the state of modern /sffg/.
People talking about prose but nobody who's touched Dorian Gray
>>8114084
Infinite Jest is fantasy too, doesn't mean it's the fantasy we read.
I want something similar to the 100, except not shit (yes, I know It's based on a book)
tl;dr earth uninhabitable, people living on a space station, some of them return to Earth
>>8114089
>good
>>8114099
Then get out faggot
>>8114097
Iron Dragon's Daughter
This general is literally same ten books mentioned every day.
How do we fix this?
>>8114097
So seveneves? That book is shit though don't read.
>>8111298
Metro 2035, the english translation at least.
>>8114078
Her Majesty's Dragon? Although It's not as much fantasy as It's Napoleonic Era with dragons, I only read the first 3 though
>>8114117
By actually answering my questions
>>8114122
I had someone recommend that to me, read the premise and it looked like type of schlock that isn't appealing on any level
>>8114089
>french revolution fantasy
I will try this out just for the premise, I dont even care if its shit
>>8114054
Got one of these for Sci-Fi? (not the ones in the OP)
>>8114078
Paul Kearney's Monarchies of God series is a rock solid epic fantasy pentalogy, which is still about as long as one really fat fantasy novel in its entirety.
>muh characters
>muh muh muh well-written 3d characters
>hurr this book didn't have interesting characters
>you need more engaging characters lol
>the book was good in x and y but the characters weren't good enough
Why do normies obsess over characters? Can't a book be good if it has an outstanding setting or message?
I feel that this focus on characters is preventing fantasy from being anything other than a commercial genre. Am I just autistic?
Is Thyone's nameless son, the wine god supposed to be Christ?
>>8114095
I quite loved Dorian Grey though. I don't regularly read a lot of older fiction (although I do also love 1984, Animal Farm and Shakespearean tragedy amongst others), but something about how he falls from grace and how much it frightens the artist (how far he has fallen morally) are aspects of the plot that really appeal to me in books/anime. The prose was also fairly easy to get into, but I enjoyed the touch of moral ambiguity in the justifications he gives for his actions.
I never really finished IJ though. It was fairly dense prosewise but it's still sitting there looking at me.
I'm currently reading Chronicles of Amber which is the antithesis of IJ. Nothing, I feel is explained in enough detail. Even Sanderson does more background description and this is only compounded by the awfully short length of books. It also, I dunno, doesn't feel grounded especially with the diversity of shadows and the infinite probability and the protag's powers makes any success seem pointless. Still the prose is nice and the plot is interesting enough to continue reading while I wait for Blood Mirror/Locke Lamora 4.
>>8114192
>Why do normies obsess over characters? Can't a book be good if it has an outstanding setting or message?
Because well written characters are the core of every well written novel, or at least all that I can think of right now.
>I feel that this focus on characters is preventing fantasy from being anything other than a commercial genre. Am I just autistic?
There's no focus on well written characters in popularity contemporary sff outside a few veteran authors.
Bakker, Sanderson, Rothfuss, Erikson and the whole crew is terrible at characterisation.
>>8114192
Sounds like someone got their first draft BTFO
protip: the very best fiction always, always had their characters on point. Nobody gives a fuck about your "worldbuilding" and if your message is so important to be expressed plainly and not through characterization then just write an essay, not fiction.
>>8114192
They just want some flat characters that appeals to very specific parts of them.
Like a "smart psycho", or the hero, or the whore.
Besides, characters are very important so wanting well written characters is important.
Though those "normies" or however you want to call them don't want well written characters, just some standard tropes
>preventing fantasy from being anything other than a
Delve deeper and you get the good stuff, but if you stay on the surface you'll only ever get shit.
>Am I just autistic
Get diagnosed and see if you are.
>>8114088
Fuck off child, go troll /b/ or something.
