Main live stream
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PqE-FXzx3Lo
360 degree live stream (shit quality): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hi0tx3BQQBo
>What is Battle of Nations?
The Battle of the Nations is an international historical medieval battles world championship, first held in 2009, in Kharkiv, Ukraine and held in Europe, in April, every year since.
It is a full contact competition using metal weapons and a standardized list of rules. National teams compete in several standard events, with all being full contact - no stage reenactment battles are included.
Teams from up to 25 countries have entered the tournaments.
>What did you miss?
UK vs Argentina
UK vs France
Finn possibly breaking a Argentinian's spine with a poleaxe.
Come support your countries!
Discuss the battles and your countries armour and tactics!
Are these refs from Ukraine?
2nd for Ukraine cheates
>>59049950
RUN BRITANNIAAAAAAAAAAA
>>59049965
yep
5 minute break and then 1v1s.
>>59049965
They're from different countries. I'd guess most are russians.
Can Ukraine be the ones to finally stop the Russian menace?
cheating vs RAW STRENGTH
ukr rus final in donbass?
>>59049973
>>59049981
>>59049922
fucking jej
>>59049879
>I'm 1,80m / 60kg and I can make
>Too bad Russian at better on every front, even on the tactical one.
At least you are immune to cold and piercing damage
>tfw I need to resuply my beer but don't want to miss any fights
>>59050025
RUN BRITANNIA
hate the french so much
>>59049983
who won this?
>>59049983
what in the fuck is going on here?
>>59049983
The hell is happening here? They decided to get serious, got interupted and then stopped fighting?
>>59050120
Looks like mexico guy and uke guy were just fighting but ended up being battle buddies. Then another mexico guy shows up to help. Mexico 1 says "ay man, pls chill." then Ukraine punches mexico 2 so he's out. Then Mexico 1 and Ukraine continue to be battle buddies.
>>59050079
Ukraine.
>>59050104
>>59050120
Ukrainian and mexican having an argument. I can't remember the details, it's from last year.
>>59050065
Just banter
> ukie qts taking pictures will never be yours
>>59049612
What do they wear?
Probably some thick wool shirt (like pic related) and some leather and/or chain armor.
How can that stop such massive blows from breaking your ribs? Would imagine it would take some plate armor...
>>59050029
They did it last year. But it was Russia 3 vs Ukraine 1 and it was a match for a third place.
>>59050079
>implying Mexico could beat Ukraine
This isn't the US border mate.
>>59050065
what's wrong with the french? i wish we were colonized by them instead
>>59050065
French are cool guys.
>>59050065
handle your feelings
>>59050205
This is thicker than it looks desu. Those little squares are also filled with cotton.
reeee
made by some taiwan guy on /pol/
>>59049984
RUN BRITANNIA
BRITANNIA RUNS AWAY
>>59050221
your country would perhaps be less of an anti-intellectual and cultureless desert
but australia is such a weird and unforgiving country that then again, maybe not
I would like to see this guy, in this battle armor go against all the teams
>>59050213
Looks like the little Mexican dude was shrugging off those punches from the much fatter Ukie.
>>59050205
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CULmGfvYlso Also check this.
Thread tiers :
2strong2fight champions : Russia
cheat tier : Ukraine
slav tier : Belarus, poland
pretty cool tier : France, United states, Finland
AAAAA HELP ME! : United Kingdom
>>59050221
Take that back now Australia.
>>59050310
>ukraine v russia x3
fukken lel
>>59050402
i didn't mean it i just wanted you to be mad at me
>>59050387
>AAAAA HELP ME! : United Kingdom
What a story?
>>59050387
poland weren't that good
australia and uk belong in the pretty cool tier imo with the danes
whats next?
>>59050478
1v1 semi-finals.
>>59050478
duels
>>59050478
**MALE** duels
>>59050366
>>59050294
But a soft armor will not be able to spread a punctual force much.
Even the guy in the video says in the end that the arrow still would be a massive, bonecrushing blow...
>>59050459
ur all right francis
how are the 1v1s scored?
>>59050478
more group hugs
>>59050387
DELETE THIS NOW
>>59050459
thank you franceland i will remember this for future encounters with frenchmen
Do these tournaments have jousting too? I really hope so.
>>59050572
>>59050553
you gotta be objective desu
>>59050550
People don't (usually) hit with their absolute full strength. Also in the video it's just the gambeson, don't forget about the actual armour above it.
>>59050611
nope
>>59050459
Australia was weak.
Uk were really good, jus picked really silly tactic against russian team.
Arenas need to be bigger, every duel just ends up on the edge/corner because there is no room to maneuver
>whenever Americans fight the announcer always talks about how large they are
>>59050550
Well, several interviews have shown bloodied and bruised guys, so clearly they do get hurt
Are these duels just point fighting?
Or do they have to pin/knockout opponents?
>>59050703
MASSIVE
>>59050717
Duels are mostly points.
>>59050703
BIG STRONG AMERICANS
First.
>>59050726
TUMMY
>>59050752
Comin' again to save the motherfuckin' day, yeah!
Poor little polish guy, he's scared
>>>/sp/67441185
>>>/sp/67441407
Sup /int/, finnish fighter here. I'm following both this and the /sp/ thread so AMA in either thread.
>>59050297
>that foot backed on the toes
>that arm on his shoulder
>that adorable outfit
>that pale skin
>>59050688
there's no good tactic against the russian team
also dibs on polish waifu of battle
>>59050808
Do you know how's the argentinian doing?
>>59050808
how bad does it hurt to get fucking hit by these guys.
Are people salty that Russia is 2 strong?
>>59050703
They're big guys.
>>59050855
i'm ok thanks
>>59050808
Which memes will you use in your next battle? JK don't beat my ass up pls.
>>59050808
What is the advantage of using a sword or a falcon over an axe, polearm, or mace?
>>59050905
falchion*
>>59050387
Canada pretty cool
>>59050752
There were no medieval Americans. What is the point?
>>59050310
ew /pol/
>>59050905
I don't think there is one. Certainly against full armor in medieval combat you'd be using a mace, axe, hammer, or something with a spike.
>>59050970
we just want to join the fun <:(
>>59050905
None. The heavier your weapon is the better.
I think they're mostly just not accustomed to using anything but swords.
>>59050970
Finns didn't wear plate and ringmails either.
>>59050970
so what, their ancestors were all Europeans, they have a right to muh middle ages if they want to same as us.
>>59050310
>made by some taiwan guy on /pol/
why would a non-white ever got to /pol/
longsword fights looks cool 2bh
>>59050808
how heavy is the full set of armor?
>>59051068
arabs like the place
>>59050752
FUCK we are badass
>>59051027
proofs?
>Literally popped collar
Fucking aristocrats
>>59051068
why would a non-white guy ever go to /int/?
>>59051125
You tell me, Ahmet.
>>59051125
why would a brit ever put his back to a fence?
>Big
>German
>Fightah
>>59050706
Sure it will hurt.
Still I have not idea how they do not break their bones on a regular basis (which they pretty sure don't), especially ribs and collarbones...
>>59050970
>There were no medieval Americans. What is the point?
We didn't spring into existince in the 17th century either. Our ancestors were doing the same shit Europeans were... we probably weren't too busy herding reindeer like yours.
>>59051061
>their ancestors were all Europeans
>>59051113
You relied on light cavalry and skirmishers and hit & run tactics, you know, since you're pretty much woods and nothing else. Just read up on your own military traditions
There were also no real Finnish knights. Finns were just reindeer fuckers during the medieval times. I can admit that.
>>59051169
To hold the line of course, with a little support
>>59051027
Uh, yeah they did, up until the 17th century when plate mail started to become obsolete. Finns fought with Swedes until early 19th century.
>>59050855
He's alive and okay, has trouble moving/feeling his arm though
>>59050858
It stings if you're hit by a 2 handed weapons and heavier hits to the head make you feel a bit wobbly. With good armor it's not as bad as it looks though.
>>59050905
Falchions don't break as easily as axes and maces (which by the rules must have wooden handles) but aren't as top heavy. Axe- and mace-heads are cheaper though.
>>59051084
Anything between 20kg and 40kg depending on the size of the guy and if it's mild or tempered steel.
Are stabbing attacks disallowed? I'm not seeing anyone trying to stab or even half-sword, even when it would be very advantageous.
>>59051285
they are
>>59051254
these helmets look asian
>>59051204
lmao shit proofs nigger
>>59051254
No they did not. Don't fucking lie. Finnish people were consireded as subhumans during the Swedish period. We had fucking maces and self made weapons. Plate armor is just no.
>>59051247
And now they're Spinal cords destroyers.
>>59051247
Proofs?
>>59051254
>hakkapeliitat style
>A unit style formed during 1600-1700
>Medieval
>>59051332
Learn history you idiot. Finnish people were uneducated farmers. Nothing even close to farmers.
>>59051296
So I'm guessing half-swording and murderstrokes are also a non-no
>>59051254
svenhomo historyrevisionists BTFO
>>59051176
>Poor little Brit boy
>>59051327
was that guy okay or not?
>>59051313
Mongolian Poles used Turkic garments and curved swords.
anuuuuu
guys, guys, all Europeans and North Americans were knights n shiet. Don't overthink it, this is the only way we can have a traditional, enjoyable sport that doesn't involve shitskins.
>>59051395
*sarmatian
>>59051285
>>59051296
Too high a risk that a stab goes through a vision slit and takes out an eye probably
>>59051350
Exactly man. Hakkapeliitta was not even close to medieval times and it were the first time Swedes took Finnish to their army as real respected soldiers.
>>59051396
That's UK vs Germany
>>59051374
Read that post and tell me you are not retarded.
>>59051374
burden of proof is on you nigger XD
still no proofs
>>59051376
You are correct.
>>59051442
proof burden of proof is on him?
>>59051442
Proofs? Learn history you fucking idiot. GUYS THIS MAN IS A 12-YO KID WHO THINKS THAT THERE WERE FINNISH KNIGHTS.
Finnish people were like sami people back then. Isolated reindeer fuckers.
>>59050752
presenting Sir Billy from House burger
>>59051421
rurik was a finn
nobody even knew
:D:D::D SWEN BTFO
>>59051481
yes
>>59051506
Knight of the White Castle
>>59051503
Calm down dude. Coastal finns raided 'n shit.
>>59051442
>the burden of proof is on the side of the person giving accepted history
ok
>>59051503
No it was the Swedes who herded reindeer.
>>59051324
Maybe during peasant uprisings, but Finnish soldiers were equipped pretty much the same as Swedish ones when fighting actual wars.
Here's how a finnish warrior would look like in the 10th century.
>>59051511
"Rurik was a Finn" What the fuck are you talking about? He was not and don't mix the history of Russia in this.
>>59051543
oh now we're on the right/wrong side of history eh?
>>59051572
No. You have exceeded the level of stupidity. Lue jumalauta historiaa. Suomalaiset olivat ali-ihmisiä, maalaisneekereitä.
>>59051598
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rurik
HAHAHA BTFO WITH PROOFS INCLUDED
>According to the FamilyTreeDNA Rurikid Dynasty DNA Project, Rurik appears to have belonged to Y-DNA haplogroup N1c1, based on testing of his modern male line descendants.[6] N1c1 is not widely found in Scandinavian countries, but is overwhelmingly found among Baltic and Finnish ethnicities.
AYY REKT YO :DD
>inb4 haplo autism
finns pls
>>59051672
sellaset itseviha-autismit sieltä :D:D:D
>>59051677
i don't think that is legitimate proofs
>>59051677
>ttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rurik
You fucking utter idiot. If Rurik had n1c1 it doesn't mean that he was a Finn automatically you stupid idiot.
>>59051749
Looks like proofs to me.
>>59051760
uliuli
nice proofs lardlord, accept your defeat mong.
xDDD
I see that 1vs1 fights killed the thread. Also some shitposting appeared.
>>59051573
Too Slavic. Take Baltic or Swedish for a more accurate look.
>>59050310
>places 1,2,3,4,5 and 6 are going to be filled up with Russia 1,2,3 and Ukraine 1,2,3
Lel Jej
>>59051829
Perhaps the 3v3s in ~20 minutes will spice things up again.
>>59051829
It's kinda hard to see who is who during 1x1 fights, camera also constantly jumps between different battles, making it even harder.
Will we get any more 3x3 today?
>>59051573
>>59051843
SWAG tbqh
>>59049916
>women knights
>Argentina
This is supposed to be traditional?
>>59051915
they're pretty matriarchal and have a required number of female seats for parliament and probably even high end business positions if memory serves
they are cucks
>>59051880
Is it women's 3v3?
What's the remaining stuff anyway? And is today the final day? Their site is unresponsive
>>59051998
Finals tomorrow.
>>59051412
Grown men doing medieval roleplay are same as nerds playing dark souls. It's degenerate.
>>59051915
Sport desu.
>>59051880
I hope so
>>59051889
Yeah, maybe screen split would help a little bit
>>59051672
>got to vote in riksdag elections
>considered important part of empire
>were ruled with pretty much the same laws as swedes were
It's only the russian "liberators" who ever really oppressed finland.
WE WUZ KNIGHTS AND SHIET
>>59051978
when was that?
>>59052039
>hey anon, I heard you said I was a degenerate nerd
>>59052050
>It's only the russian "liberators" who ever really oppressed finland.
wew lad, dont even go there.
>>59049916
Is this Autism Simulator: The Sport? I got wet just watching the 1v1.
> connaught vs occitania
> britain vs poland
>>59052084
Guessing 21v21s from two days ago.
Argentina a cute!
CUTE!
>>59052101
FINNISHED
>>59052116
Don't worry, most Russians have already passed out by now.
>netbiosd
>>59052161
she could make me a paraplegic whenever she likes
>>59052140
makes sense, not on their channel for the moment
thanks
Is it done for today?
>>59052298
Nope, 3v3s will start up in like 5 or 10 minutes.
>>59052298
Another round up in 10 minutes. They finished a low-energy 1v1 round and they're going into the next round.
>>59052161
would get my head bashed in by/10
>Romanian HMB
>20 min break before 1 on 1 fights
>>59052298
grill fights when??
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FPN414-FCns
Where's the footage of the Argentinian getting his spine wrecked? I missed it.
I dominate the metagame
>>59052404
Why boner
>>59052404
Nigger tier gangup fights and beating people when they're down.
>>59052502
>>59052513
Yeah I just saw it after I posted, sorry. Poor guy.
>Every time someone advertise their board, it's either a /pol/tard or /tv/
>>59052573
He's fine now.
Do the female russians wreck everyone's shit too?
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=a9d_1395693558
(turn down volume)
>>59052694
They did last year so I'm guessing yes.>>59052694
>>59052116
Damn you are just fucking stupid. Russians really liberated Finland, that is a fact. Have you heard of porvoon valtiopäivät? What about the Kingdom of Finland? Walhalla-seura? The FIRST literal source what suggests the independency of Finland was the manifest of ELISABET, the empress of RUSSIA. Since that manifest some of the Finnish people secretly backed Russia after the hats war. Russia prepared Finland for independency. When Finland was part of Sweden we were called as "East-Sweden", Finnish people were considered eastern Swedish subhumans. Until the mid 1850s Sweden was considered to be a "sophisticated" language and Finnish was considered to be a subhuman language.
>>59052600
everything /pol/ does is always just a less funny cringey version of /int/, it's not surprising.
>>59052728
Swedish was considered a subhuman language too, their elites spoke other languages.
>>59052728
I was acutally implying you both were absolute cancer but nice b8 attempt.
HERE WE GO, 3v3s
>>59052855
In the 1800s in Finland Sweden was considered as the cultural language and Finland was the language of the filthy peasants.
>>59052768
they sure do upset you, you're going to have to deal with that one day like an adult
>>59052600
>>59052768
I've seen /int/ posted a lot though
>>59052768
Your post is kinda cringey tbqh
>>59052898
>in Finland
You're changing the topic now. In this context
>Until the mid 1850s Sweden was considered
It was also a peasant language.
My ebin post here sure made alot of finnish autists assmad as fuck.
>>59051332
>>59052944
>>59052981
you have to go back
Women's 3v3 happening now lads, France v Ukraine
>>59052882
I personally think Russia was better to Finnish people than Sweden. After the treaty of hamina almost only Swedes were allowed to be high level authorieties in the area of "East-Sweden". When Russia took Finland they immediately wanted to get rid off Swedish authorities and replace them with Finns. They also tried to change the "official" language to Finnish from Swedish but failed.
Jeanne! Au-secours!
>URAINE
> tfw no chubby ukie knight gf
Ukraine vs France 3v3 now!
Ok France, good luck. Don't embarrass yourself, pls.
>>59053072
I repeated "proofs?" after that other guy you genius. It was a meme at that point.
where is Jeanne d'Arc when you need her?
>>59053097
Before not after* wtf
>>59053097
Only good Russian thing for Finns was tsar Aleksander.
/thread
>French ladyknight trips
What a way to lose
> women's fights
>>59053145
proofs?
>>59052161
Knights dueled and jousted to win the favor of maidens. Now dykes and women with boyfriends are fighting and male maidens are watching them on the internet.
It look like childrens fighting.
>>59053097
It was divide and conquer. They wanted to make Finnish temporarily stronger in order to make us more susceptible to Russian influence later.
>>59053271
It always look like it when the French fight
I doubt these women are qt
>russia vs poland rip
how does this frog speak such perfect english
>>59053252
Choices m8
>>59053271
I can't tell if the replay is in slow motion or not
>>59053327
nigga do you not see this french qt up right now get out of this thread before I fucking fight you I will protect her smile.
100 percent legit French girl.
My ebin post here sure made alot of finnish autists assmad as fuck.
>>59053230
>>59053318
French ppl dont even fight, they just bend over.
CUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUTE
> Russian girls want to murder this
This "sport" isn't high-energy enough for me. I love the idea, but it should be less LRP and more MMA. I want it to feel real and visceral.
>>59053122
>when someone in the crowd chants UKRAINA
ROSSIYA
O
S
S
I
Y
A
>>59053361
you're the only one mad desu
>>59053361
DELET!!!!!!
>>59053426
lel xDDD
>>59051711
is this real ? pls no!
>>59053360
why do you say that?
>>59053381
calm down Chang this is only the women's event
>>59053441
what does that say?
What is it now?
>>59053358
1v1 me with long sword you pussynigga
>yeah that french grill was bretty gud
>>59053527
Cunt get out from heres.
> Russians bydlo """women"""" make this qt a paraplegic
what if they get hit in the tiddies, does that hurt more?
>>59053547
Russia v Poland
Refs and Poles are talking about something right now, apparently there's an aussie in the Polish team or something
>>59053527
Wait? These are WOMEN fighting? That explains a lot.
Hopefully the men's events don't have any awkward standing around when there's an enemy directly behind you. If you power down, you deserve to be taken down.
>>59053627
thats the ISR dude who was interviewed while bleeding, the fuck he has to do with a female 3v3 match
AUSSIE AUSSIE AUSSIE
typical, polish sluts need to prepare for 102470137508137509235029 hours to go out
POLSKA STRONK WE WAR YOU
P-L COMMONWEALTH NVR 4GET
I need a webm of that Finnish autist paralysing a monkey yesterday
>>59052502
>>59052101
>>59053755
Already posted m8
> russian cheating
>>59053755
heres>>59052502
shitposter girl is doing well
this is silly
>>59053377
Coming from a country beaten by people who just bend over...
>>59053318
Coming from a country that is NOT EVEN participating...
OY VEY
>Battle of NATIONS
>Aussie gets booted out
>Meanwhile russians is 90% of non-russian teams
>>59053847
its banter m8
not very good but better than your butthurt
Anyone got the schedule?
>Poland using Israeli and Aussie mercenaries
Shamefur dispray
>>59053734
>Arrows on the cannon
so you know where you're aiming at.
POLISH DEATH CAMPS
POLISH DEATH CAMPS
POLISH DEATH CAMPS
IT'S ANOTHER SHOAH
OY VEY
>>59053847
fuck off
>>59053847
We were banned. Too strong you see.
> you can hear the women grunting
>>59053880
I'd say i won that one too with my shitty non OC bantz.
>>59053921
probably because Norway has always been Denmark's bitch
What is going on atm? had a 2 hour break from this.
Aussie and Israelis fighting under Polish banner? Women fights now?
>>59053893
we rescued her for a death camp
>>59053949
my compatriot litterally relaxed around a finn
Why aren't these wenches back at the castle producing heirs?
>>59053980
Yes, "polish" team is comprised entirely of mercs
Was that legal? Rotating when down i mean?
wait what? How is it live right now?
Thats not on the schedule
>>59053980
yes woman
the israeli and australian where already fighting for poland earlier
theres a ref dressed as a woman
3 vs 2? wat?
what is this, 3v2?
>Shitposters join sides with jews.
I wonder who will win.
OI OI OI
>>59054054
I mean, shouldn't it be men's 1v1? It's 20:26 in prauge right now correct?
AUSSIE AUSSIE AUSSIE
>>59054069
he's just wearing a hood rather than a hat. you could see yesterday everyone without one on got super sunburnt
>>59053980
>>59054056
Thanks
>>59054127
>>59054136
Looks like Poland got a red card and had to drop one fighter
Press F to pay respects
>>59054127
>>59054136
Poland got a red card last game
>>59054127
>>59054136
Polish women team received a red card earlier today in a game vs France.
embarrassing tbqhwithyou
>That mace girl
lmfao
>>59054170
>>59054201
>Polan
>>59054127
>>59054136
Decapitation red card.
>>59054199
For what? I know only jews gets red cards
Wait I thought she was the one that got recdcarded earlier
WHY DIDN'T YOU SAVE HER LADS???
>>59054166
they all have hats, so no
>>59054199
>>59054201
What was the red card for?
maybe the women would do better if they dressed like this
>fucking crying
>>59054259
She's the Strayan or Israeli one?
>>59054162
PLEASE FUCKING RESPOND MY AUTISM CANNOT STAND THINGS OUT OF ORDER
>>59054283
Nah, but my boner would.
Aussies have ran u of booze.
Shit just got serious
>>59054297
>Strayan
this
>>59054295
>>59054259
POLAND BTFO
>>59054267
are you trying to tell me he's not wearing a yellow hood or are you trying to tell me people didn't get sunburned yesterday? either way you are a dumb faggot
>>59054330
yes it is dumb amerifriend, its not like you can check the local time on the internets
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ipr_IH5ffRo
New thread when?
>>59054297
I think she's both
>>59054402
Esti poster, where are you?
>>59054283
You'd want to see those titties slashed?
Me not desu.
>>59054271
Illegal knock-out. Might cause a spinal injury.
>>59054377
but god damn it, look, it's the 8th today yes?
Are they really that fucking behind that the women's 3v3s are still going on from 11 now that it's half past 20?
>>59054390
>some of those guys have half of their face unarmored
russia everyone
>>59054365
they didnt get sunburnt, what kinda claim is that you stupid fag, you personally met them?
and all refs have a hat, sometimes wearing it sometimes not, so theres no excuse for the ref to be in women dress
>>59054390
how many dead?
>POL-SKA-STRAL-YA-IS-RA-EL
> All this fucking cheating
>the commentator sounds unsure as fuck about what is going on
lel
that's women fight for you
The polish ladies just can't catch a break, can they?
>>59054563
i was talking about the time, no idea about the schedule
>>59054566
>That inkling when a maiden revels her rear
>>59054511
>theres no excuse for the ref to be in women dress
are you talking about this one? the one that is a girl? yeah I think a girl dressing like a girl makes sense you stupid fucking faggot
>>59054651
just look at it
it should be men's 1v1 right now for only 30 more minutes
>>59054563
why are women fighting? There is supposed to be 1v1
Which one is joan of arc
>>59054748
The T H I C K one beating on the polish girl.
>USA vs Ukraine
JUST THROW IN THE TOWEL NIGGA IT'S NOT WORTH IT
>>59054745
that's what I've been saying, what is going on?
I mean, it can't be possible that they're 10 hours behind schedule shit
NEW THREAD >>59054778
NEW THREAD >>59054778
NEW THREAD >>59054778
>>59054673
nono she doesnt wear a hat
WHAT WAS WRONG WITH THE SHIELD`?
I feel so bad for her, she's had such a hard time this whole day
>>59054699
have you ever been to a tournament or event of any type in your entire fucking life? these aren't tv shows the fight times are variable and whether they go to 2 games or 3 changes everything. stop being so stupid
NEW THREAD >>59054778 →
NEW THREAD >>59054778 →
NEW THREAD >>59054778 →
god damn french accent is sexy
>>59053880
such banter is only triggered by butthurt, we make them butthurt
>>59051677
DNA and ethnos is very tricky question, you don't make proofs with it.