/btg/ is dead, long live /btg/!
Kuritans doing Kurita things
Old Thread: >>48151367
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Combat Manuals Kurita
http://www.mediafire.com/download/l317qcmc9i81744/E-CAT35261_BattleTech_Combat_Manual_Kurita.pdf
Campaign Operations
http://www.mediafire.com/download/b7e9bgevanjxf3y/E-CAT35007_Campaign_Operations.pdf
TtS McEvedy's Folly
http://www.mediafire.com/download/0i6ldp6u1qxbfh5/E-CAT35SN209_BattleTech_Touring_the_Stars_McEvedys_Folly.pdf
================================================
>/btg/ does a TRO:
http://builtforwar.blog(not spam)spot.com/
>How do I do this Against the Bot thing?
http://pastebin.com/pE2f7TR5
>Overview of the major factions?
http://bg.battletech.com/universe/great-houses/
http://bg.battletech.com/universe/the-clans/
http://bg.battletech.com/universe/other-powers/
>How do I find out what BattleMechs a faction has?
http://masterunitlist.info/
>Map of /btg/ players (WIP):
https://www.zeemaps.com/map?group=1116217&add=1
>BattleTech Introductory Info and PDFs
http://bg.battletech.com/?page_id=400
>Rookie guides
http://pastebin.com/HZvGKuGx
>Sarna.net - BattleTech Wiki
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Main_Page
>Megamek - computer version of BattleTech. Play with AI or other players
http://megamek.info/
Unit Designing Softwares
>SSW Mech Designer
http://www.solarisskunkwerks.com/
>MegaMek Lab
http://megameklab.sourceforge.net/
>BattleTech IRC
#battletech on irc.rizon.net
>PDF Folders
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/9q792hobnbpw3/Battletech
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/sdckg6j645z4j/Battletech
friendly reminder this comic exists in-universe
>>48201500
Shillering Sword, full version of this picture when?
By the way, how's work? I don't remember seeing you on a long time
>>48201520
I disbelieve, solely on the basis that they'd be more likely to say "fifteen meters" than "fifty feet".
Griffin or Wolverine? Of the stock 3025 models, which do you prefer for general field use?
>>48202477
Griffin. Ranged firepower is better IME.
But only with the absolute basic models.
>>48202477
The Griffin fo sho.
>>48202477
Wolvie, but I'm weird. Go with the Griffin if you want the better 'Mech.
>>48185838
While this is still up, I'm gonna go ahead and nominate Ring of Red. I wonder if anybody else here remembers that game.
>>48202872
I do.
My copy soft-freezes at the introduction to that giant train-mecha thing, so I never beat it.
I always liked the idea of dedicated infantry support for a mech.
>>48202966
Always have been a combined arms fan.
RoR is also a good example of ICE-powered mecha and Primitive Rifle/Cannons.
mods are asleep
postpurple birds
>>48204362
>>48204362
what has been seen...
>>48204820is it bad that I wish I could see the macross version in fighter mode with that paint job
>>48201001
Here's the greatest spymaster.
>>48205090
I would so play a Paradox-style grand strategy game for Battletech.
>>48204820
>>48204593
>>48204362
AT LAST, I AWAKE FROM MY SLUMBER...WHO CALLS ME FORTH?
>>48206602
gibe /btg/TRO updates or I report u
>>48205475
Good God, think of managing bloodlines in that.
>"Now, who could I get Victor marry? Omi Kurita? Isis Marik? Hermione Aten? Nah, I know, Kali Liao! What do you mean, 'check her traits'?"
I'm watching Marco Polo and Jia Sidao is basically Sun-Tzu Liao to me.
Since Sidao is the 'Cricket Minister', it made me think of a design challenge: a Capellan-inspired Grasshopper variant, preferably for Sun-Tzu himself to ride. Or for Death Commandos.
hay does anybody know if there are any amphibious dropships in BT canon? like say, a Leopard class fitted with a huge seaplane-style floatation hull for landing on a planet where runways aren't.
>>48208149
Doesn't work. Trying to use thrust when you've landed on water destroys the DropShip outright.
But you can make giant aircraft carrier submarines if you want.
>>48208149
Dropships in BT have the density of Styrofoam. Just take them for a dunk!
>>48208149
I heard somewhere, sometime, that every dropship was amphibious. Probably not true, though
>>48208334
every spheroid*** dropship
not that it makes more sense
>>48201500
Honor to the Dragon!
>>48201355
what mech is this? some kind of custom macross crossover or is this the real life?t
>>48208149
Anastasia Kerensky lands her DropShips on the ocean floor in one of the weaker Dark Age novels.
>>48207514
I've done this before, but I'm away from my computer. I remember it had stealth armor and ER lasers, though.
>>48208424
They can land on water but if they try to take off again, BOOM.
>>48204849I submitted the Marik Militia as one of the color schemes in the Robotech Tactics contest. Didn't win, alas.
>>48208406
>what mech is this?
Stinger LAM in AirMech mode. At the time, it was actually a licensed Macross design.
>>48208149
Well, there's the Phobos in the second GDL novel that actually sailed across a sea. Of course it was a Union and the transfer from the black navy to the wet navy was a bit accidental, but it's the thought that counts.
>>48208186
>giant aircraft carrier submarines
The Argo always reminds me of the time when sideburns were magnificent and oddly shaped hulls were someone else's problem.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_pwYBmduh3c
>>48208406
Ultra rare Phoenix Hawk LAM if I am not mistaken.
>>48204593
I unironicly like this. The 5w is a darn fun and dare say good mech.
>>48208544
no one ever implied heavy mechs are bad :^)
>>48201500
what's your favorite way to keep track of unit actions and firing calculations while playing tabletop?
i mostly just draw tables on graph paper but i've seen pre-printed sheets and spreadsheets on a laptop being used before.
>>48208480
But they do take off from the bottom of the ocean. It's literally on the front cover.
>>48202477
>>48202805
wolverine here, too
>>48208522
>>48208537
shut up and take my c-bux
>>48202872
I loved that game. I think its available on the PlayStation Store now
>>48202477
>Griffin or Wolverine? Of the stock 3025 models, which do you prefer for general field use?
Griffin. I just don't like something about the way the Blockhead looks. While it's true the Griff is focused on ranged fire, it also still has the maneuverability to put its armament at near-optimal ranges pretty much all the time. Griff does lose out in melee and it's not a Command 'Mech, but if I'm building a lance I'd rather have three Griffins and one Wolverine than the other way around, y'dig?
in AtB play, is there a reason that lances have to wait 9 turns before being deployed when coming off reserve?
>>48209678
Whilst technically a non-answer: I just use the configure thingy to set everyone to arrive at more sensible times, like right at the start. It's not like the bot has to wait to deploy more than a reinforced lance to begin with.
>>48207514
That's a damn good show.
>>48202872
>>48185838
What about Legend of the 5 Rings? Could it work as background for Kurita Districts?
>>48205090
thanks!
>>48209678
It's meant to represent your lances operating independently, but sometimes close enough to each other that once contact is made with the enemy you can get there in time to help.
>>48209718
The bot is also still fairly stupid, which is why they get more units than you do. Their reinforcements also have delayed deployment.
Special event Big Battles or Base Assaults with extra allied units have them deploy at the start, because they are supposed to represent larger-unit actions.
>>48208752
Rules say they can't. They could land at high tide but would have to wait for low (*very* low) tide so the thrusters were no longer submerged to take off.
Also, it's the Dark Age, where 'Mechs can suddenly do backflips and kick-flip of each other. A number of the authors either didn't know or didn't care about how the universe was supposed to work, and there appears to have been fuck all editorial oversight to correct that.
>>48209874
We call it the Derp Age for a reason.
>>48209957
>We call it the Derp Age for a reason.
and we say that's our favorite meme for another reason
Dark Age stronk, grogs pls go back to your retirement home
now this is a Dark Age thread
>>48210045
>>48210058
>>48210088
>>48209678
You can cut the reinforcements' arrival time, though: every rank of Strategy the reinforcing lance commander lowers the time by one, for instance. Other factors that are taken into account are the reinforcing lance's speed (the faster the average speed of their giant robots are, the quicker they arrive) and I believe jump jets. A lance of jumpy mediums led by a Strategy 2 commander can really shift it when necessary.
>>48210108
>>48210008
2/10
>>48210135
>>48210168
>>48210216
>best art
>best TROs
>biggest unit and equipment selection available, thus providing the best gameplay
>fluff has something going on for every faction on Inner Sphere, giving every player something to play
>players can re-enact any type of battle they want, from raids to all-out planetary invasions, going from simple lance vs lance games to huge combined forces battles
>>48210779
>>best art
No shimmyseen, as present era of releases has, so this is subjectively false. I do like the DA TRO art in general though.
>>best TROs
Again, I disagree. It has the *most* TROs though, which is something. Most of the DA TROs seem to be focused on extremely advanced tech with a minimum of just solid functional designs )though of course some do exist).
>>biggest unit and equipment selection available, thus providing the best gameplay
Biggest selection is a yes. Best gameplay is a subjective no. Personally, I prefer the slightly slower paced Invasion/Civil War era, since I don't like the frantic speed that DA games seem to run at.
>>fluff has something going on for every faction on Inner Sphere, giving every player something to play
Are you being intentionally stupid here? Many factions are dead, crippled, or simply ignored. Pet factions run rampant and many others are simply gone. Look at how few clans remain, for example.
>>players can re-enact any type of battle they want, from raids to all-out planetary invasions, going from simple lance vs lance games to huge combined forces battles
This exists in any era, so it's bullshit as a plus for the DA.
Everything here is either subjective or so nitpicky that it may as well be irrelevant. While I respect your opinion about the Dark Age (and I don't call it the Derp Age personally), I disagree with it. Thank you for the nice art dump though, that's appreciated.
>>48210779
>>best art
A) No. Most of my personal favorite pieces are Jihad or earlier.
B) A good bit of the worst art in the game is in the DA. Because, chronologically, Chris Lewis stuck his muddy dick into both the Jihad and the DA at the same time. He's just flat-out bad at his job, and unlike Nelson never seemed to get better.
>>best TROs
What, you mean the giant clusterfuck of half-finished print releases and E-Cat bullshit that it took them literally years to come close to fixing? Nah. 3039 and 3085 are the best TROs available, both in terms of content diversity and in ease-of-use.
>>biggest unit and equipment selection available,
True
>>thus providing the best gameplay
False. The wide strategic array of options and high-risk equipment design choices do favor one style of gameplay, but I actually prefer the Age of War if I want "fast and loose" gameplay.
>>fluff has something going on for every faction on Inner Sphere, giving every player something to play
"You're fucked" is a substantial part of that fluff.
>in the Inner Sphere
And that's another problem with your statement.
>>players can re-enact any type of battle they want, from raids to all-out planetary invasions, going from simple lance vs lance games to huge combined forces battles
Yeah. In this and any other era.
Meanwhile, the original fluff is pointlessly nihilistic, full of shitty Game of Thrones rape/incest/murder parties, without realistic or even interesting consequence to many factions or characters. It has been repeatedly backfilled by people desperately trying to fill the holes and horseshit left behind fifteen years ago by another company. It's more interesting now, but there's still more than one steaming turd in the punch-bowl; the company is likewise refusing to just draw a curtain on it (since they can't come up with their own original shit, apparently, unless it's allied to a healthy dose of literal copy/paste from older books). Wooo, let's drop vague rumors and hints!
>>48210779
>>48211205
To expand further on why "widest unit selection" may be wrong:
A great many variants and even entire design lines went extinct in the Dark Age time-skip. The Jihad is actually likely to have a wider selection, since you literally have everything from RetroTech primitives and MODs to cutting-edge MD tech and a full selection of Homeworlds, Society, and IS Clanner tech fighting, not to mention the odd Star League and SW hold-out.
By the Dark Age time frame, the Star League, Primitives, Society, MD, and Homeworlds designs have all been removed. According to currently not-retconned fluff, all of the 3050 and earlier versions of the Unseen are extinct, as well as all LAMs.
While there are more experimental and one-off designs available, the diversity of 'Mech >production< variants available has dropped precipitously, and is at its lowest since the Succession Wars. Several factory worlds have been razed or severely damaged, and many mainstay designs are gone, forcing you to get a completely new collection to effectively play in the Dark Age.
In addition, the loss of FtL communication in the era reduces the campaign options available to players, and particularly hurts Mercenary contracting and research. While this is fine for one sort of game (again) it limits tactical and strategic options for people who want to engage in grand strategy or play a small, hardscrabble unit (say, 90% of campaign players), since they have to rely on months-old intel and jumpship circuits to get anything done.
As far as the art.. well, this is one of my favorite pieces. It tells a tight, complete story while inviting the viewer to immerse themselves in the action. In much the same way, the covers of Interstellar Players 3 and XTR: Primitives 2 have images of ruin and investigation that draw you into the piece, and again inspire gameplay in a way that simple text cannot. They also all evince a high standard of technical skill and mechanical design.
>>48209770
A haiku for you, honorable anon:
Magical settings
Crossover with Battletech
Not even once, senpai
>>48210779
>>48211465
(cont)
Basing your opinions of Dark Age art on the work of Tony, Chris D., and Alex while ignoring Lewis and Nelson's crapsack work is like pretending that Loose, the asshat who fucked up Brush Wars, or the bottom rung of Jim Nelson's character art somehow eliminate the contributions of MJ and Geier to the SW and CI eras.
>>48211532
Word filtered haiku
Smile and optimism gone
Commit Sudoku
So me and my friends have just started playing Battletech and currently only have 2 of the starting boxes. What are the books we need to get, and are there any books that tell you which factions can take what?
>>48211915
>What are the books we need to get
Depends on what era you want to play, although TROs 3039 and 3050 are basically a must for the 'Mech selection in the intro box. You'll also likely want Solaris Skunk Werks, a free program that runs on Java and allows you to print record sheets.
Other things I'd get - More map packs ($25 each) have scenarios that introduce rules for things like rivers and buildings. They also have tiles that you can drop onto the maps to add terrain.
Current prints of Tech Manual and Total Warfare, the official rules books (can wait a few months for these though). Unfortunately they're kind of really badly-organized, but less awful after you're basically familiar with the stuff in the Intro Rules booklets and the map packs.
Downloading a copy of the 4e Master Rules is also a good idea. A few things have changed, but for basic gameplay it's really well laid-out and includes some fun advanced rules that Catalyst exiled to Tactical Operations.
The fluff books are mostly there to support campaigns and such, so you can get those as you get more into the game world. Not critical first-timer purchases.
Tactical Operations, Strategic Operations, and Campaign Operations all add options to your games, but really only matter once you've had some time to fuck around and get used to the main game.
Alpha Strike is a fast-play system designed for larger games. You NEEED the companion if you buy the hard-copy rulebook, it includes a bunch of critical errata and rules changes. Supposedly there's a boxed set somewhere in the pipeline, but right now it's looking about as close to print as the second wave of Robotech Tactics. Personally I recommend skipping it for now.
>are there any books that tell you which factions can take what?
http://www.masterunitlist.info/
That's the official site. Only covers Succession Wars -> Jihad right now though, and it's maintained by volunteers so it can be a bit of a lag between new info and it going up.
>>48208878
>shut up and take my c-bux
You can have my Phoenix Hawk when you pry it from my cold, dead hands, anon.
>>48212094
Thanks for the info.
>>48212187
That's the spirit, the traditional method of acquiring giant robots.
>>48210108
I cringe every time I see this picture. It's like OMG-watermelons-and-fried chicken
>>48212094
I have a question where is the best place to buy additional mechs?
So I hear the Hunchback, and especially the Hunchback IIC, is retardedly shitty.
>>48210108
really shitty parade turnout.
is the Phoenix Hawk a decent command mech?
>>48212467
Not even slightly.
>>48212325
The Hunchie's great, and you've got them in every flavour. Want the biggest fucking gun? -4G. Want to have a light show? -4P. Missiles? -4SP and -4J.
The Hunchback IIC is intentionally a death trap. It has incredible firepower but paper thin armour, since it's intended for pilots who want to live fast, die (rather) young and leave a good-looking corpse.
>>48212467
It's a great bug commander, and that's one of the fluff roles for it, in fact. Three Wasps and one Pixie (the mommy bug) is both legit and fluff-compliant.
>>48210899
>Look at how few clans remain, for example.
I'll counter that with my thought, dating back to when the Clan Invasion was a new thing: "Why bother having all these other Clans that have no apparent reason for existing?" If it didn't come to the Inner Sphere, it failed at the basic relevance check. Which would be a good chunk of why the Wars of Reaving were a thing, cleaning out most of the dead weight. I wouldn't be surprised if the Star Adders have absorbed everything that was left on the homeworlds by the time they get around to Clan Invasion II: Electric Boogaloo.
>>48212530
>If we're gonna talk about real design flaws in BT, how about the fucking Hunchback 50/50 shot of 'you either fly out safely using the eject feature of you hit the ammo rack positioned right above the escape route and get crushed"
>>48212844
Hunchie pilots eject out the top of the head which is clear of all obstruction so... u wot m8?
>>48212467
>decent command mech
>6 points of head armor
Pick one and only one. In local games, PH pilots are known as "suicide jockeys".
>>48212959
>In local games, PH pilots are known as "suicide jockeys".
Around here, we use the term for anyone driving a mech with CT ammo or more generally any design with unCASE'd ammo and thin armor
>>48213057
CASE would be so much more useful on IS designs if it hadn't come out at the same time as the XL engine craze.
>>48213130
It's certainly very good for mercenary campaigns, though.
Completely changes how getting an ammo crit on a target feels, from "oh cock, looks like no salvage today" to being nearly as nice as a headcap
>>48213401
That's true, but if you're mostly a single match or single scenario player then the benefit of standard CASE tends to be much more dubious in a lot of designs.
>>48213450
>but if you're mostly a single match or single scenario player then the benefit of standard CASE tends to be much more dubious in a lot of designs.
That's very true
Was it ever explained who caused the HPG blackout? I thought the BT novels stopped being published in the middle of Dark Age because it was such a flop that FAFSA went bankrupt.
>>48214013
>FAFSA
While it was a flop I don't think it caused quite that much financial chaos anon
>>48208522
>I submitted the Marik Militia as one of the color schemes in the Robotech Tactics contest. Didn't win, alas.
ABSOLUTE MADMAN
>>48212324
>I have a question where is the best place to buy additional mechs?
If you want cheap plastics, there are a couple of stores that sell the Alpha Strike lance packs at a pretty steep discount - about $4 a model. There are a bunch of add-on 'Mechs as well as reprints of some of the stuff in the starter box. That's a pretty limited selection though.
For metals, there's a guy named Aries who runs a small online shop that has almost all of the models at a discount from Iron Wind's prices. Good turnaround time, cheaper, and better shipping prices than IWM, not as good at replacing busted things. Your call there.
eBay is good for OoP stuff, but watch out for anything that looks like pic related - it's counterfeit and extremely low quality. Note the thick white paint and shitty paperclip aerials, as well as the background. This guy has been selling shitty lead recasts for a loooong time.
If you want MWO-style stuff, Warhansa is the flavor of the week. Again, pirated stuff, but pretty good quality.
If you want older models, Lords of hte Battlefield and Noble Knight both have decent selections.
GHQ does 6mm armor, which is great for repping cheap shitter tanks like the Scorpion, or APCs and infantry.
>>48214039
Was Dark Age a flop? Why did they think it would be popular?
>>48214013
it is going to be revealed soon(tm)
>>48214013
>Was it ever explained who caused the HPG blackout?
Yes and no. We know that the Republic, Green Ghosts, and possibly Blakists all had their fingers in the pie at some level. The Green Ghosts likely include survivors of the Reaved clans, as well as former Blakies, and ComStar was engaged in their own shenannigans. Catalyst steadfastly refuses to actually publish any goddamned answers, of course.
>I thought the BT novels stopped being published in the middle of Dark Age because it was such a flop that FAFSA went bankrupt.
Nah, not FASA, they'd already been dead for like seven years at that point. It was Wizkids folding and getting bought out by Topps, who didn't want to have to revenue-share with ROC books. And yeah, it was also a colossal flop.
>>48214334
the game or the novels? Game was kind of a success in its time, I don't have a clue about the novels
>>48214286
Pics of the extra models in the lance packs. you can see the layout here ariesgamesandminis.com/index.php/shopping/category/38-lance-packs.html
>>48214334
They figured that a sufficiently fresh start would bring in new blood and revitalize everything, forgetting the kind of grogs they were dealing with.
(Admittedly in hindsight a lot of Dark Age events DID turn out to be kind of stupid and their earlier plans for the factions were almost Age of Sigmar-tier goofy)
>>48214013
>Was it ever explained who caused the HPG blackout?
Of course not
>I thought the BT novels stopped being published in the middle of Dark Age because it was such a flop that FAFSA went bankrupt.
Not at all really. FASA folded back in '02 or around there, nothing to do with the DA. WizKids really shit the bed with the DA stuff and they eventually stopped the novels and new sets because they were losing money on the whole business, and IIRC they folded and then it was all down to CGL as the only people still doing battletech stuff
>>48214334
>Was Dark Age a flop?
Not at first. It came at the tail end of the Mage Knight craze (invented by the same guy who created BT), so he decided to flog an almost but not quite rebooted BT using the same system.
>Why did they think it would be popular?
He wanted to get "back to basics", with the Mad Max feel of the Succession Wars but a Darker Grittier 90's Edge (tm). Of course, it was in the 2000s at that point, but who gives a hey...
What killed it? A mix of things.
The game actually started off really popular. But Wizkids saturated the market with other titles at the same time (including rebooting Crimson Skies), and there were severe problems with booster selection. Especially in the first couple of sets. Nobody wants to spend thirty bucks and not get a single decent 'Mech. There were also problems with the aesthetics (see the bitching about Chris Lewis upthread), and the whole Reseen thing. Later sets had severe scaling and quality-control issues, and the support for the game fell off as WizKids started running out of money.
Meanwhile, there was a LOT of backlash when WizKids basically said "Old Battletech is dead, this is all you're getting", which led to some of the old FASA guys forming FanPro as a US-licensed extension of the company in Germany that was still publishing FASA-era stuff. They got the license to produce "Classic" BT in the US, and it drew off some more of the playerbase from Clix.
When Wizkids went down, there was a whole lot of bitching and wild-ass speculation about what was going on. The simple facts are Jordan was bored, his company was stretched too thin to make shitloads of money anymore, the fad for clix games was petering out, and Topps offered him an enormous amount of money for the patent on the Clix system. He took it and moved on. Frankly, I don't blame him.
Now, as to why Battletech hasn't taken back its slot as a top ten minis game.. well, that's for another day.
>>48214601
>Now, as to why Battletech hasn't taken back its slot as a top ten minis game.. well, that's for another day.
IT'S ANOTHER DAY NOW, FAGGOT
But seriously, memery aside, why do you feel that this is? You seem to have some knowledge of these things and I'm curious as to your perspective.
>>48210899
>Pet factions run rampant
honestly that's my problem with 3025-3067 fluff.
The entire game was basically "Fun with FedSuns and Friends". On the Clan side was Wolf and Jade Falcon. As bad as it seems now I don't think it was any better then. Factions that weren't related to Steiner-Davions were almost ignored
>>48212819
It's nice to have minor factions in the background, and it's not like they need the same pagecount major factions do.
>>48214731
Not who you're replying to, but personally I bought my first Battletech starter set during Dark Age. But I didn't enjoy it half as much as I enjoyed the Mechwarrior games or the Mech commander RTS. I just didn't enjoy the fluff; it made me feel depressed after spending years reading about the Gray Death Legion and other Battletech novels. And the miniatures were kind of poorly made; the arms kept falling off one of the 'Mechs in the starter set, and the helicopter kept falling off it's transparent stick while the gun on the hovercrafts were all bent. And the idea of retrofitted civvie 'mechs being used in warfare made me laugh, and not in a good way.
And that so soured me on tabletop Battletech, especially when other games were catching my attention at the timeBattlefleet Gothicthat I just dropped it and decided to stick only to the video games. And thus far I've seen nothing that entices me to try and get back into it, especially when the setting has become more and more of a clusterfuck.
>>48215003
>likes GDL
>dislikes technicals
pleb-est of the plebs, holy shit
>>48214731
Short version: Catalyst won't advertise or promote the game in any way that doesn't involve convention tickets, and the massive IP rights clusterfuck makes it hard for them to monetize the game in a way that justifies the expense.
They also seem to be struggling to hold onto a kind of "ascended amateur" status as a business - they're very big fish in a very small pond that way, instead of average fish swimming with sharks. I think they're afraid of having control of the game taken away if it gets TOO successful, either by Topps demanding more executive control, or by having to hire actual pros from outside their circle, and being held to the public standards of a company like Privateer. Rather than "the fans who saved BT" they become something else, and - especially given the public statements about why they're delaying ilClan - I don't think they've planned (maybe even aren't capable of planning) far enough ahead to actually push for that.
Plus they've been teetering around financially for a long time, and every time they get a good solid chunk of change soemthing comes along to fuck them out of it. I've been poor for a long time, and it tends to reinforce a certain pessimism - every extension feels like an overextension, no matter whether or not it's something that can pay off big, you'd rather keep surviving and praying for luck to stop fucking you in the ass.
>>48214917
I think the problem is perhaps more that the same pet factions that were around then are around now, but they've grown even more annoying. Invasion era Jade Falcon was assholes but relatively moderated assholes with few aberrant ideas. Dark Age era Jade Falcon is Smoke Jaguar with green feathers.
>>48215151
>>48214601
let me ask you about Battletech in the 90's and before. I have learned about the game with Mechwarrior and I lived in a place where "tabletop gaming" consisted on playing Risk or Monopoly, with RPGs getting popular early 2000s (miniature gaming is still rare, almost nonexistent).
How famous was Battletech? It was easy to find players or even people that knew the game existed? Which other franchise could be compared to it? I always had the impression BT was some kind of cult success but not really popular
for a thread with so many opinions this one is kinda civil. Good discussion, guys, I'm having fun reading your posts
>>48215298
It was a big enough name. Maybe second tier of stuff internationally. The fanbase was there, the company support was there, and FASA had enough businessmen who were smart enough to flog it properly to the public. Remember that MechWarrior 2 and the TV show were released pretty close together in the mid 90s, in an age where the high production values of the former were noted. The latter's shortcomings were more a victim of coming too early for the late 90s action boom. Though the cartoon still suffered from being a verrry early 90s cartoon, with the right animation studio and not being produced by fucking Saban, it could have hit, at least until Gundam Wing.
>>48215342
/btg/ can be pretty chill sometimes about its shit.
>>48215298
>let me ask you about Battletech in the 90's and before.
Okay, cool. I got into the game in a weird way - a local thrift shop had a couple TROs (including 3026) and a fluff-book that I picked up in '88. I managed to work out the basic rules from those and played a bit on my own before I left home to join the Navy in the mid-90s.
>How famous was Battletech?
Well, more people knew about the MechWarrior video games than the tabletop even then. But still, most gamers knew it existed, even if they didn't play it.
>It was easy to find players or even people that knew the game existed?
Most cities I was in had at least some level of BT presence, and most shops had minis or boxed sets. FFS, the boxed sets were on sale in Borders and Barnes and Noble at the time. Groups were often small and close-knit, but still accessible, and several shops had ongoing campaigns or leagues.
>Which other franchise could be compared to it? I always had the impression BT was some kind of cult success but not really popular
Somewhere in the Warmahordes/Flames of War range these days. Not everyone was playing it, but every store had people involved. The universe was basically common knowledge between the 'toon, video games, and novels, and they were major feeders for tabletop.
The general "CCG crash" and D20 hit the entire games industry pretty hard though, and Battetech was far from the only popular thing to get killed or gutted by it. Magic and Pokemon were sure money, compared to a massive surge in cheap, low-quality gaming product that was hard to shift, so a lot of stores gave huge sections of their inventory the chop and lowered their book and minis inventories to keep the cardboard crack flowing.
>>48212187
will it to me, senpai!
>>48212325
It's good for forcing your opponent to make a decision if you don't mind losing a unit.
Howdy! Does anybody have the 3025 TRO on pdf? I'm working on a little project and I can't find the damn book on the mediafire links or anywhere that isn't scribd.
>>48215864
i think this sums up most of my experience with accessibility in the late 90s. it was mostly small groups like my own and the miniatures/tros were often found in mom and pop game shops or even the chain book/media stores. you could find bits and pieces of the game in all sorts of odd corners.
i remember it fondly especially because nobody had everything in their head. playing with new groups or players meant learning about new tech, often in the heat of a fight, and getting to dive into tros/materials you may not have seen.
i deeply regret giving away all my old btech books. i'll be holding onto my catalyst books for as long as i can.
>>48216253
Can't it be TRO 3039?
>>48215386
Take the falcon off and those colors work for Clan Wolf Alpha Galaxy
>>48217305
Maybe that's why the Wolves and Falcons don't get along so well; constant unit misidentifications.
(Admittedly, the Wolves tend to use a more washed-out version whereas the Falcons saturate)
>>48216253
>Howdy! Does anybody have the 3025 TRO on pdf?
I have the revised PDF, but at 18MB, it exceeds 4chan's file size limit.
I have the original book, complete with Duane Loose's illustrations of the Unseen, sitting on a shelf in the closet.
Are you looking for something in particular, or just the whole book in general?
Anyone ever stat out that Brunel Dump Truck triple AC20 beast from Klondike? Or even the LRM variant?
>>48216253
>I can't find the damn book on the mediafire links
Go to the first link, click rulebooks and sourcebooks, scroll down to the FASA section in the 8000s.
>>48217556
>I have the original book, complete with Duane Loose's illustrations of the Unseen, sitting on a shelf in the closet.
aahh, but which printing? There's two that reference a PPC Locust, another with the Ostsol/Ostscout fuckup and the quirks but no PPC Locust, and a fourth with most but not all of the quirks pulled, that they printed right before FASA vs. HG. I've got a third-printing myself. That's also what's been scanned.
Then there's the "revised" abortion but.. well...
>>48218432
what do you mean by "quirks"? like the javlin's PSR thing? which mechs have those in the older printings?
(my copy is also a third printing, and I'm curious about the older ones)
>>48218432
>aahh, but which printing?
I also have the Third Printing from May of 1987.
>The Locust variants listed are 1S (2x SRM-2's), 1M (2x LRM-5's), and the 1E (2x Med. Laser, 2x SM. Laser). No mention of a PPC variant.
>The picture on page 29 is of the Ostscout, but the tech readout is for the Ostsol. Likewise, the picture on page 79 is of the Ostsol, but the readout is for the Ostscout.
>>48217364
>constant unit misidentifications.
You joke, but Objective Raids did give at least one Wolf Galaxy (including Cluster names and COs) to the Falcons.
>>48218731
Damn, dat old school unseen.
What's the general consensus on Alpha Strike?
>>48219908
Pretty fun, good for casual play, kinda missing that spark that the regular game has though. For better or worse the lower level of detail means fewer BATTLETECH! moments.
>>48219908
A fine light minis game. Not BATTLETECH though, just similar.
>>48215298
I got in around '90. There was a game shop that had the boxed sets. Cool robotech miniatures. Between me and my friends we had Battletech Citytech and Aerotech. We we rally got into it about the time the Rules of War came out. We'd play with mostly cardboard standees (though I've got a Ral Partha unseen light lance somewhere).
My strongest memories involved playing Mercenaries campaigns using the maintenance rules in the sourcebook.
>>48216253
htt@ps:@//w@[email protected]@om/folder/dkutvz2u5y38e/03-Succession_Wars_Era
just delete all @
When is this dork days going to come to an end? Heard an expansion called ilClan was going to start a new age, when is that happening?
I really want to see what the clans get up to.
>>48220524
>when is that happening?
it's a mystery to everyone
>>48220501
>Copy of Rolling Thunder NOT marked Incomplete.
>not 4mb
>File corrupted.
My tears, they flow like waterfalls.
>>48220524
>>48220566
i think someone mentioned 2017
>>48221155
That was wild and baseless speculation, not actually official in any way.
>>48221246
>Zeus, Zeus, Banshee, Atlas
Is there a more Lyran lance?
>>48221389
Daily reminder that CGL is run by thieves and you shouldn't give them a nickel.
>>48221635
Daily reminder that this franchise would be better off if Randall were dead.
>>48221389
>Zeus, Zeus, Banshee, Atlas
A lance composed of just that appears in the novel Heir to the Dragon.
>>48210088
>Atlas II
That gets me wondering; did anybody else in the Clans ever use the Atlas II reconfigured with Clantech components besides Nicholas Kerensky?
>>48222638
The Atlas, along with the Devastator (Andery Kerensky), Black Knight (one of the Falcon founders and IIRC Ethan Moreau) and other famous/common SLDF rides (Crab, Archer) are conspicuous by their absence from the ranks of the Clans.
There are mentions of the Falcons having an Atlas at Tukayyid but I think that was an AS7-D and isn't listed in their Tukayyid deployment TO&E.
The OOC reason is that the Clans kinda got an "Atlas IIC" in the Kodiak or Dire Wolf depending on whether you want to look at role or mass. Giving them additional 100-tonners was a bit superfluous after that.
IC you can try to explain it away as being so honoured due to Nicholas Kerensky that nobody else was willing to use one, but by the same token the number of absolute dezgra scumbags who used Highlanders/Highlander IICs is pretty impressive, including the guy who killed Nicholas and the nutjob who wanted to kill his wife so she could take her place yet the Clans love the shit out of those.
>>48222638
That's an Atlas III though.
Anyways, only known Atlas II customs are Nicky K's and Devlin Stone's, though Stone's does use some Clantech, namely the ERLLs, XL engine, and DHS.
>>48223046
Oh, my bad. I'm not super familiar with Dark Age designs and recalled the II having a similar gatling gun arm in its art.
>looks up Atlas III
>Streak LRMs
>mfw
This might have been answered in other threads, but the plastic Marauder/Locust/Warhammer in this new Kurita book... where do they come from? Are they new? Test minis? Soon-to-be-released minis?
>>48223777
To be released minis, but I'm not sure about the soon, the Whammy was part of the Shimmyseen reveal and in CM: Mercs, and that was late last year. IIRC there's going to be some sort of boxed set with all the Shimmyseen, and they still haven't gotten around to showing all of the designs yet even.
>>48223857
Gen-Con then, maybe? (/wishful thinking)
>>48223110
It's actually a bastard to fight. The shields cover the long or short-range side of the 'Mech to help provide additional protection for those weapons and it's meant as a command ride.
A lot of Feddie players went off the deep end about how shit it was as an assault 'Mech, but that's not its job. Besides, if they need a Clantech ass-kicker, they have the Hellstar, Dire Wolf Prime/A/C/S and War Hawk any way.
>I've been pronouncing it "eye eye Cee" instead of "two cee" and no one's ever corrected me
Welp, time to die I guess
>>48220501
Any chance you want to share the parent folder? :)
Does somebody have the Intellestelar Operations PDF?
>>48218083
Not that anon, but whoa
I've never seen this printing before
Much thanks to whoever scanned it!
>I can't into haiku
>>48222638
Well, here's one listed in the Green Burd TO&E, several years before the mech got written up in a TRO. (This wasn't particularly odd for the Green Burd Sourcebook, they also had a few omnimechs that didn't get written up until a while later.) Of course, there's no evidence whether or not it was refitted with Clan tech, but they did field an Atlas II.
>>48224746
It's in one of the folders
htt@ps://w@[email protected]@om/download/4hi24un9tthh9pr/CAT35006+Interstellar+Operations+FINAL.pdf
again delete all @
>>48201500
Hi /btg/, I'm new and want to start playing Battletech. Steiner looks cool, the thing is, I have fuck al knowledge about Battletech besides Mechwarrior.
So my question: is it sensible to play an actual steiner military unit? if yes, what units are common? or is it all mercenaries?
>>48218731
>mfw I have a german copy of this one lying around
>>48224458
Eh, no biggie.
>>48225054
>This wasn't particularly odd for the Green Burd Sourcebook, they also had a few omnimechs that didn't get written up until a while later.
The Atlas II was first mentioned way back in the old Star League book actually, along with the Wolverine II.
BT has done this sort of thing for a long time, like how the Striker was mentioned in the Awesome's 3025 text, the Emperor' name was dropped in the profile of another 3025 mech, but I forget which one. Pretty sure I saw the Sling referenced in an older book somewhere.
And in a similar vein, the Merlin was the construction example going back to Battledroids, so it had stats but no fluff. I believe this technically also makes it IRL the oldest non-unseen mech as well.
>>48225094
>is it sensible to play an actual steiner military unit?
Sure, if you want. If you download this: https://www.mediafire.com/folder/sdckg6j645z4j/Battletech you can have a look at what the different Lyran commands are known for and maybe pick one. Being a generic force from a specific faction is also fine, you don't necessarily have to be the Coventry Militia or 1st Lyran Guard.
>if yes, what units are common?
BT has a bunch of different eras and this changes often. But the Commando, Griffin, Thunderbolt and Zeus are pretty common no matter when you play as a Lyran. Other things come and go depending on the era.
>or is it all mercenaries?
People like mercs for one of two reasons; one is that BT players tend to be very detail-oriented, so playing merc lets you go full autist tracking everything from how much ammo your unit goes through to how much toilet paper they need. At the other end of the (no pun intended) spectrum, playing merc offers at least fig-leaf justification of why their force contains 'Mechs from five different sides of the Sphere and six different eras. It was in a cache, it was salvage, we bought it new as part of the signing bonus, etc.
>>48225307
>https://www.mediafire.com/folder/sdckg6j645z4j/Battletech
Herp a derp. Try this: http://www.mediafire.com/download/pfyk1k419n885c6/01720+-+Field+Manual+-+Lyran+Alliance.pdf
>>48225307
>playing merc offers at least fig-leaf justification of why their force contains 'Mechs from five different sides of the Sphere and six different eras. It was in a cache, it was salvage, we bought it new as part of the signing bonus, etc.
To be fair, even House units can use most of those reasons too. In part because of mercs running around putting mechs outside their traditional borders.
>>48225488
I love how mechs are so rare, valuable, and hard to produce that almost every faction would field it if they found one. Like a powerful house could stumble across an outdated mech full of garbage tech produced by a faction that they despise and the worst they would probably do is put it in storage for an emergency and more likely the'd do whatever is economical to update the tech and send it to help guard some planet that's a little under-equip right now
>>48215298
>let me ask you about Battletech in the 90's and before. How famous was Battletech? It was easy to find players or even people that knew the game existed? Which other franchise could be compared to it? I always had the impression BT was some kind of cult success but not really popular
I was looking for the fliers from our tournaments in the early 90's... all I could find was the tournament rules which had been printed out on a dot-matrix printer and photocopied for the attendees.
Back then, the only two tabletop games that got really played in our town of about 100,000 people were Battletech (3025) and Warhammer 40,000 (Rogue Trader - the First Edition roolz). I remember playing a lot of Battletech and being in two annual tournaments back then.
>>48221635
>>48221645
Holy shit where are those from?
>>48226440
Most (male) teenagers who owned a computer or who had a friend who did knew about MechWarrior 2. BT benefitted a lot from that, and again a few years later from MW 3. You could usually get anyone with any level of geekiness to try the board game if they'd played the computer game.
The local scene where I lived had ~30 players on a regular basis with ~12 more at my high school.
That was the '95-'00 era though.
>>48226764
Not the guy who posted them but I do remember seeing them way back when the Coleman embezzlement shitshow became public.
FanPro/IMR/whatever the fuck never confirmed the amount of money but given the way their content quality tanked and staff quit in protest at the time I'm inclined to give it the benefit of the doubt. CGL has certainly never recovered from the hit.
If you want to know more just Google trollman + coleman and it'll come up.
>>48227061
>If you want to know more just Google trollman + coleman and it'll come up.
I know about that entire clusterfuck - I just don't ever recall seeing charts in that specific level of detail. That's detail on the level of "breaking into online bank records" or "actually sitting in at the company meeting where they talked about this", and it just really surprised me.
>>48227088
We do know their lead accountant quit in the middle of the whole fiasco, so that's a possible source. But I'm skeptical of the charts.
>>48227088
A little bit of googling indicates they were leaked by some dude called Phil DeLuca.
He was a CGL owner but I have no idea if he's still involved.
>>48227061
>content quality tanked
How so?
>>48221635
>>48221645
are these the Porchbux Charts?
>>48227413
ShadowRun got fucked *hard* by the whole thing. They lost a bunch of staff and people who weren't paid were withholding copyright, which meant stuff that had been written, laid out and so on couldn't be shipped.
The BT side of things less so, probably because Coleman and Bills are closer to that side of things than other CGL ventures.
>>48224230
I just laugh because shit like Streak LRMs, X-Pulse lasers, and a 2-bore autocannon (among its other weapons) possibly makes it have the Dark Agiest of Dark Age armament spreads.
>>48227779
And yet, somehow, it's actually a decent mech. Will wonders never cease, a DA mech that's also good at the thing it was designed to do.
Also, the Atlas III sculpt has 25 tubes on that Streak-LRM, for some reason.
>>48227842
>And yet, somehow, it's actually a decent mech. Will wonders never cease, a DA mech that's also good at the thing it was designed to do.
Is it not correct then to feel like, in particular, Streak LRMs sound ridiculously broken?
>>48227911
>Is it not correct then to feel like, in particular, Streak LRMs sound ridiculously broken?
They're good, but not broken. They weigh an unholy shitload and they're still LRMs. You also can't load any special amm types.
I think it is more than the Atlas III is a surprisingly good command ride, mostly because of its shields and longer range armaments. It's *not* a good combat machine, but it *is* a good commander's ride. Fuck, I wish it (or a lower tech version) was available during the Civil War/Jihad era so I could use one as a command ride in that era. Other than the S-LRMs it could be a Jihad mech, basically.
Is the Coleman fiasco the reason Leviathans died?
Clanner tech has evolved.
The ultimate weapon is biological, not machine.
The age of the giant waifu warrior is upon us.
What mechs can stand against such a threat?
>>48228875
>The age of the giant waifu warrior is upon us.
This sounds more like something the Magistracy would want to pull
>>48226440
Man, how record sheets have evolved.
>>48228875
No, thanks. Giant people make even less sense from a materials standpoint then giant robots do. Square-cube law is a bitch.
So, who's excited about the upcoming turn-based strategy game due out next year?
>>48228768
Not entirely, although the removal of operating capital and the subsequent years of "not having enough money to publish stuff for a new game line" certainly didn't help.
In combination:
1) The Chinese government impounded the first printing of the boxed set because the picture in the fluff manual showing Taiwan didn't show it as the same color as China (historically, Japan owned Taiwan then). This is a violation of the 1 China policy, and it more or less required the unpacking, reprinting of the manual, and repacking of the entire game line. This killed essentially an entire year.
2) There were terrible issues getting the Chinese mini and dice manufacturers to actually do their jobs and not just take money and bump (the small order of units) down the queue.
3) Copies of the mold plates for the minis were sent to Germany when CGL got sick of a bunch of this shit. The mold plates were lost at sea.
4) Once the game was printed, the market for "Steam-powered ships" was mostly taken up by Dystopian Wars, who'd visited the CGL booth at GenCon, liked the idea, and put a game to print while CGL was dealing with China.
5) There wasn't enough money to print product. See also Coleman, Loren.
6) Doug Chaffee (Levs lead artist) died and I gather there was an issue with his estate not wanting the stuff he'd developed and CGL had paid for to actually go to CGL. So much of the art has dried up, and discussions of getting a new lead artist went south.
7) The Chinese company with the 3D models and the remaining mold plates won't give them to CGL. The company said that since they'd made the plates, they owned them; CGL had only contracted to get the product, and if they wanted the plates they'd have to pay several million dollars. This is where CGL said, "fuck it, we're out" as buying new mold plates is horribly expensive (IIRC $200k for new plates to replace just the ones in existence).
>>48229023
I kinda like the square armor blocks.
>>48229083
It'd work okay if you kept the rear armor arrangement separate like on the modern sheets rather than blobbing them together next to the front sections.
>>48229064
Damn, that's sad. It's incredible how many things went wrong. Leviathans seemed much cooler than Dystopian Wars too. I guess it just wasn't meant to be.
Well, thanks for the detailed answer Not Entirely Anon!
Are there any Spanish-speaking or Hispanic/Latino themed regiments or locations besides Camacho's Caballero and the Southwest Trinity Worlds? Spanish/Latinos seem pretty underrepresented. There's a bunch of Scottish planets, for example.
>>48229263
Taurians have a shitload of them, IIRC.
>>48229263
The Taurians are kinda hispanic in a old western sort of way, and spanish is the second most common language there.
They don't have any Spanish themed regiment names or anything, but that's just because in that respect they're nearly as boring as the lyrans
>>48229263
Principality of Nueva Castile/Escorpión Imperio in the Deep Periphery.
>>48229263
The only Hispanic character I remember is the Lyran cadet Victor does a racist impression of.
>>48229064
This, by far, is the saddest loss of a game i've heard had to deal with. I've had others that I was more involved with (Magi Nation being the biggest) but the repeated hits drove me up the wall.
>>48229044
I am. It'll be the first BattleTech I'll have played in years.
>>48229064
Chinese rip-off game when?
>>48229044
What are you talking about?
>>48231001
He's talking about the upcoming Battletech game from Harebrained Schemes (The guys who made the Shadowrun PC games).
In short, this:
http://battletechgame.com/
>>48231073
Oh, the pc game
For a second I thought it was a new tabletop game
>>48229263
I know about 3, maybe 4, Brazilian planets and there is an Argentinian planet on Capellan Confederation
>>48229263
The real question is where are all the Slavs
>>48231309
tikonov and surrounding planets, and all over the FWL
>>48225237
Does the German one change any of the text, or does it just add a few extra 'Mechs?
>>48227512
Yep.
>>48229064
Leviathans was clearly meant to die
>>48233218
I believe you mean "deserved to die." It pulled resources away from Battletech, wasted a bunch of the company's time, and steam-ANYTHING is inherently shit anyway. Not a single redeeming thing of value came out of that entire game line.
>>48233795
Wew, some hot opinions over here lads.
>>48229044
It looks good, but I think I will wait for an expansion pack set in either the early-mid Clan Invasion, Refusal War or FedCom Civil War. Not being able to play as Trueborn warriors and using the ever-venerable Timber Wolf makes me sad.
>inb4 angry, dumb grogtards using that stupid, outdated joke of 'REMOVE CLAN TUKAYYID BEST DAY BLABLABLA'
>>48233898
Some objectively true opinions, you mean.
If leviathans was worth it, it wouldn't have failed.
>>48234263
The problem is that it's set literally as far away from the clans as you can be and still be in known space
>>48229064
This isn't the first time I've read about a game getting fucked over by Chinese manufacturers, actually it's so common that at this point I can't help but wonder how stupid a game company has to be to do business with China anymore.
>but it's cheaper!
And chances are you'll lose more money on a product that disappears in Chinese corruption than you would going with a more expensive and actually reputable manufacturer.
>>48234263
The game is squarely aimed at the hyper-grog audience though. That's the reason I skipped the KS, 3025-ish tech and plot doesn't interest me.
The only thing that really surprised me was that they're setting it in the Periphery. I was very much expecting a "you are a Davion merc, go fuck some Capellan shit up" given the tone they went with for the KS campaign.
>>48234488
Steam-whatever has gotten overdone but 2010 was the start of the wave. It could have been good.
I'd rather Crimson Skies got revived if I had a choice, YMMV.
>>48229044
I'm pumped.
An actual battletech game instead of yet another Mechwarrior sim? Hell yeah.
Turn based strategy? HELL yeah.
Everything about the game almost sounds too good to be true, but then I remember it was made by the dudes who made Shadowrun, who are themselves huge Battletech fans who are passionate about doing the franchise justice, so I'm going to remain optimistic.
>>48234263
Except there's already a Clan game, and most people don't give a flying fuck about the Clan honor system anyway. I guarantee 90% of Clan players are just in it for headcapping ER PPCs, rather than Zellbrigen.
>>48234677
Fuck those faggots. The entire thing that drew me to the Clans was roleplaying the culture.
Still, meh. Mechwarrior 2 was good but it's damn old and still a Mechwarrior game rather than a proper tabletop-style strategy sim.
>>48234660
Not to mention that the company was co-founded by Jordan Weisman, the guy who founded FASA, Wizkids and, oh, created Battletech and Shadowrun..
Here's hoping he and his team's magical hands can create another great game with subsequent expansions to include the Clan Invasion, Jihad and Dark Age eras.
>>48234835
I forgot about that, kind of an important factor.
>>48234835
>the guy who founded Wizkids
You say this like it's a good thing.
I kid, mostly. Based on HBS' track record so far I expect a solid enough game. I just have no interest in playing another re-hash of the 3020s, which is what Weisman loves doing with the game and what he tried to do with MW: DA.
>>48234677
>and most people don't give a flying fuck about the Clan honor system anyway
Most people play using BV balance and that is explicitly set up with the assumption Zell won't be used. They even go so far as to say "If you're using BV, don't also use Zell" when they talk about balancing games or scenarios in the TW series of books.
>>48234520
>but it's cheaper!
>you'll lose more money on a product that disappears
In the case of Leviathans specifically, in 2008-09, having the game made in China was literally the difference between having it made and not having it made at all.
The original marketing premise for Leviathans was based off the expensive "coffin box"-style games that were being released in 2008-2012. These were very large, very heavy game boxes (think Warhammer Fantasy RPG 3e or GW's Space Hulk) that contained a great deal of product and retailed in the $75-$120 range. CGL planned the release of Leviathans around this idea; a primary coffin box game set, supplemented by several mid-size ($30-50) boxes containing other Fleets, rules expansions, and so forth. (As a side note, the market shifted while the game was in development toward a leaner, mid-sized box with extra individual booster packs [like X-Wing]; CGL failed to anticipate the trends of the market.)
Early in development, it was decided to go with pre-assembled, pre-painted miniatures. A great deal of time and effort was spent trying to figure out how to make this happen in an economical way - the ship miniatures used are quite large (Battleships are about 5" long). They eventually figured out that the only viable way (at that time) to make this happen was to use a Chinese company. Given that a TON of companies use Chinese production houses to publish games, this wasn't thought to be a huge deal.
The price point for the Levs boxed set was originally in the $75-80 range, although due to the Chinese company upping the price it eventually became $100. What's important here is that *every* other option CGL looked at would have made the boxed set price $180-200, which was outright unmarketable. Thus, by the requirements CGL had set for themselves, it LITERALLY became "China or nothing." Post-2012 this would be different (you can get pre-painted minis made in Germany, for example), but that's 20/20 hindsight.
>>48234835
>>48235098
I'm really glad that this game is getting made for three main reasons:
1: more stuff for fans of the always-underused periphery
2: Weisman and grogs get more 3025
And 3: nobody else has to care, because vidya is non-canon
>>48235371
Bad news anon...
>>48235371
>And 3: nobody else has to care, because vidya is non-canon
Incorrect. Randall said that MWO is entirely canon. Even the parts that are impossible to reconcile with actual Battletech.
>>48235388
>>48235412
>>48235412
>>48235461
"MWO does not meet the current criteria for canon for the BattleTech universe. As an official product with a valid license, it can be regarded as apocryphal.
BattleTech Line Developer Herbert A. Beas II expressly confirmed in an official chat that the game would not be canonical per se, i.e. it would not be in a position to add events, characters or other content to the canon of the BattleTech universe. However, in 2016 then-Line Developer Randall N. Bills overruled this when he expressly stated that the fluff provided for MWO's Hero 'Mechs was fully canonical for BattleTech. Mind that this technically only applies to the text, not to the visual appearance or game stats."
That's from sarna.net, so take it for what you will.
>>48235536
>all the grogs that would fight for weeks over the RFL-II being the Legend Killer are forced to contend with this.
A pity the paint job they chose was fucking atrocious.
>>48235126
At the time you can't blame them, but I mean after so many stories just like theirs you'd think that, now, the industry would have learned. But this shit just keeps happening.
>>48234770
>The entire thing that drew me to the Clans was roleplaying the culture.
Behold, a tremendous faggot
>>48235806
Everyone thinks that they're the special snowflake who will be the exception and wildly successful because of it.
>>48227639
Not to mention CGL lost some really promising franchises from the whole debacle...Cthulthutech and Eclipse Phase fell out from under them during that nightmare.
>>48236554
Cthulutech was never good to begin with
>>48236554
>.Cthulthutech and Eclipse Phase fell out from under them during that nightmare.
yeah, but they're both utter trash.
cthulthutech is especially a industrial-strength dragon dildo of a game
>>48236347
Well OK, what should Catalyst have done? If the requirements for the game require chinese manufacturing prices, and under no circumstances should they operate in China, then what's the alternative?
Given the market conditions then, I don't see them as trying to be special snowflakes so much as taking the only possible route open to them at that time. They do a lot of stupid shit, but I don'[t think this is one of those times.
>>48235126
sure it had to be china, but did it have to be RED china?
I'm given to understanding that taiwan has something in the way of cheaper manufacturing going on. was that not an option?
>Shadowrun
>Cthulhutech
>Eclipse Phase
>Leviathans
What the fuck? Catalyst Game Labs was the one behind all of these? Why are they so fucking incompetent? Why do people think they'll do better with Battletech?
>>48229064
This whole spiel sounds like BS.
>We got our mold plates sent to Germany
>They got lost in the ocean
>We got our game printed
>We can't afford to make more models or books
>We don't own the mold plates or 3D designs
>We don't even own 2D designs
Yeah, no.
>>48236334
What, you'd RATHER play with one of the twerps who's only in it for the 4x ER PPC headcappers?
>>48236608
I would've just ditched the pre-painted mini idea. I know it's something they wanted but it wasn't absolutely critical, they could have had unpainted minis.
I think they were (are?) still casting their minis in China any way but at least they wouldn't have been stuck with that particular company.
>>48236637
I'm pretty sure they were just doing the production side of Eclipse Phase and Cthulhutech, they didn't own the IP. Certainly when the Coleman shit went down those brands pulled out.
>>48236639
It's bait, anon. There's no point trying to reason with him, he's either trolling to get the reaction or he actually is that retarded.
>>48236637
>This whole spiel sounds like BS.
It's been verified a number of times. Randall himself posted a bunch of that on the Monsters in the Sky webpage. Sorry about your conspiracy theory, mate.
And CGL does own the mold plates. They;d send the 2D art files to China, who then turned them into 3D models, and generated mold plates from those 3D models. CGL still has access to the 2D artwork (assuming they got things sorted out with the Chafee estate), but the Chinese company is simply refusing to send the mold plates CGL paid for back over to the US, or send them the 3D models to CGL can pay somebody else to make new mold plates.
Here it is straight from Randall's mouth. Go to monstersinthesky.com and scroll down the blog posts if you think this is a 'shop. This whole situation really IS that fucked up.
>>48236637
>We don't own the mold plates
they DO, the thing is that the chinks stole the fucking plates and cause the red bastards don't give a shit about foreigners, CGL doesn't actually have any recourse to get them back
>>48236714
>implying you can trust Randall
Loren pls go
>>48236714
>This whole situation really IS that fucked up.
More like another tuesday when dealing with chinese companies.
>>48236608
Please follow the conversation.
No one is blaming Catalyst, we're talking about how Catalyst's situation is just one of MANY that have all had the exact same problem that proves that companies TODAY need to stop doing business with China.
Doing business with Chinese manufacturers nowadays is just straight up gambling. Odds are you WILL lose money, you WILL get fucked in the ass, and your game WILL NOT even reach market. So the fuck what if China is cheaper? You're risking your product never even reaching stores as it gets tied up in Chinese corruption, and literally just throwing money away. At least going with Germany or something you'll have a product to sell at a more expensive price instead of NO PRODUCT AT ALL.
>>48234638
>I was very much expecting a "you are a Davion merc, go fuck some Capellan shit up" given the tone they went with for the KS campaign.
I can already imagine the CapCon fans bitching.
I'm still thinking it could end up an Ace Combat Zero sort of situation where this tiny Periphery nation starts out getting the shit kicked out of it but your SUPER ELITE MECHWARRIOR TEAM goes in and starts turning it around, wrecking other Periphery and Inner Sphere face.
>>48236975
This. I was a minor partner in a venture to bring Kona coffee into China to take advantage of the urban coffee boom there, and the Chinese partners just stole all the packaging design, advertising material, and licenses. They didn't buy any Kona coffee beans; they just bought the cheapest coffee they could find and packaged it in our packaging.
>>48237191
>the exact same problem that proves that companies TODAY need to stop doing business with China.
It's not so much China, but Chinese companies. You NEED to own the factory and control the supply when you do business in China, you cannot subcontract out to a Chinese manufacturer. They will just steal things out from under you otherwise, especially IP.
It's not a corruption problem either. It's just that Chinese entrepreneurs think that if you trust them that much you're an idiot and you deserve it, because they live in a cutthroat world where you are more likely to be murdered than taken to court.
>>48238176
Why are they going with the Periphery, where literally nothing ever happens? It's like setting a Napoleonic Wars wargame in Alaska. Especially if they're not planning on advancing the setting, like having people colonize new worlds and fighting for new territory. Just get back to Sun-Tzu Liao and his struggles to make Capella great again.
>>48238219
>They will just steal things out from under you otherwise, especially IP.
They're imitating the US model of growth.
>>48238233
>Why are they going with the Periphery, where literally nothing ever happens?
Probably so they can make their own shit happen.
>>48238176
I'll admit I'm just hoping that the Taurians are the bad guys in the game. The tears from certain sectors will be god damn delicious after how much they've been praising HBS for putting the game in the Periphery where it can interact with two of the major Periphery realms.
>>48238406
I just got done reading Historicals: Reunification War. Man, I can kind of see where the Bullwank comes from.
>>48220975
I feel your pain anon, here is 65 page version:
https://www.sendspace.com/file/o5swy9
>>48238838
>https://www.sendspace.com/file/o5swy9
Can you put this up at MediaFire or somewhere that won't send every anti-malware program I run into meltdown when you try to download it?
>>48238219
>It's just that Chinese entrepreneurs think that if you trust them that much you're an idiot and you deserve it, because they live in a cutthroat world where you are more likely to be murdered than taken to court.
That's corruption, anon.
![401326_sm-British,%20French,%20Leviathans[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/goiV3LH.jpg "401326_sm-British,%20French,%20Leviathans[1].jpg")
>>48229064
>>48235126
At this point, I wish they would just take a little money from the porch fund, hire an artist for some new art assets and to make some attractive counters or chits, and release it as a counter or hex and chit game like Battletech essentially is, and once they get some income, put that money into minis for the game. Because goddammit, those were some gorgeous minis. I know "time sunk" etc, but if there is essentially a written and working game there, then it's their failing to find some way to capitalize on it even if it isn't in the form they originally envisioned.I'm more than a little sad that they never released stats for muh Air Italians, otherwise I'd just buy the damn pdfs and get dice made myself [/spoilers]
>>48239425
Sounds more like a free market where murder is cheaper than going to court.
>>48239746
It's the way it is mostly because of rampant corruption and the sheer stupidity of just everything that is China since Mao.
Just reading the new Kurita combat manual and saw this. I'm guessing this is yet another cock-up by the writing team, since I can't fucking remember anything about a Kuritan needing to earn citizenship.
>>48239762
They seem to be doing ok for themselves
