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>Question
Which splat is the sexiest?
>>47748416
>Which splat is the sexiest?
Mummy
>>47748416
>Which splat is the sexiest.
Gay Werewolf obviously.
>>47748416
>Which splat is the sexiest?
Promethean!
>>47748499
If the last couple threads are any indication, Acanthus mages with a Life legacy using Fate to get big bonuses on being superhot.
>>47748514
Morr
Re: Prime as Truth
I don't entirely agree with a lot of the complaints, but Prime has had a few of it's goodies changed. Creating things out of Tass is overtly supernatural, according to Dave, and depending on how the write up is intended to be read, they may be major mana sinks as any tools or equipment you create lose mana each time they're used. It's got some new stuff, with "Truth", but really there's not much there other than convincing everyone that the truth you speak is true, and the truth other people speak isn't. That does bring up the question of whether or not an Obrimos can tell religion is a lie or not, but more than that are questions about what Perfecting, Weaving, Fraying, Making, and Unmaking Truth would be. If I Unmake the Truth of Gravity, does it go away in that area? Can I Perfect someone's appreciation for someone else to create a strong Truth that they love the other person? Can I Fray someone's Truth and give them the Cassandra curse?
>>47748845
Cassandra curse seems great and valid.
I don't think you can make gravity stop working in an area, but you could probably make people stop believing in it.
Reposting from last thread, re: Scion 2e:
>The pantheons we’re writing up for Hero are:
>Aesir – The Norse Gods
>Deva – The Hindu Gods
>Kami – The Japanese Gods
>Manitouk – The Algonquian Gods
>Netjer – The Egyptian Gods
>Orisha – The Yoruban Gods
>Shen – The Chinese Gods
>Teotl – The Aztec Gods
>Theoi – The Greek and Roman Gods
>Tuatha de Dannan – The Irish Gods
>Neal's also mentioned that the Polynesian Atua are on track for Demigod, and that he'd like to do both the Voodoo Loa and the dead Gaulish gods.
Which are you most excited for? What would you add?
>>47749194
I'm not so much interested in the pantheons themselves, rather what abilities they impart on their scions. I'm going to guess the Tuatha have some similar abilities as the previous edition with bardic charm and berserking, but I can't remember what the other pantheons did at all.
>>47749194
I've always loved Greco-Roman Mythology, so the Theoi all the way for me.
>>47748845
Have you been huffing 2hu's wank posts about Prime again, boy?
>>47749569
I think Touhou's approach is dumb. But I do wonder what Prime CAN do Re;Truth
>>47749194
>Polynesian Atua
All I've ever wanted. Now I can be that awesome Scion of Maui.
>>47749601
If Promethean won't give me a volcano sacrifice Lineage, then maybe Scion: Demigod will hook me up.
>>47749598
>I think Touhou's approach is dumb.
That's the spirit. Can we drive him out of these threads yet?
>>47749709
Honestly? People keep shitting on me for complaining about him so much, but he's been gone for the last few days, so I doubt it matters. He might turn up when the errata is out, but for now I'm going to enjoy the calm.
>>47749194
Add Slavic.
>>47749789
Is there really enough known to go off of?
>>47749622
Isn't that in Dark Eras 2?
>>47749952
???
The Promethean setting with the volcanic eruption is about the birth of the Frankensteins.
>>47749969
Boo. I wanted volcanoes .
Is Astral adept worth it?
>>47749894
tzchernobog is a scary skeleton man from the tundra. boom we got it.
>>47749894
There was a fan thing I had downloaded a copy of that had Rus gods. We know bits, but not a lot, and there have been some various issues in uncovering the past. The Slavic people had no writing system whatsoever, so only small bits of oral tradition came through. An interesting example of the problems in discovering Slavic gods happened when one of the scholars investigating was told of Chernobog, the Black God. He seems to have been a minor god only referred to by Western Slavs, what's really interesting is that this researcher assumed he was simply a counterpart to a Belobog, or White God. Many successive researchers saw his mention of Belobog and used that as a source to reference him. Turns out, once they did more research, there never was a reference to Belobog before this researcher.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4CAwi-Y--fQ
Paranoid delusional schizophrenic... or poor soul exposed to the God-Machine?
>>47749194
Tuatha de Dannan forever
>>47749194
Add Abrahamic :^)
My first character will probably be Manitouk, if Raven is a god.
I bet he'd be fun to be a Scion as
re: scion, did you guys see that one guy on the forums write up of a Lovecraft pantheon?
it was pretty cool
>>47751033
>tfw feel contractually obligated to come up with a Kemetic Scion but have literally zero ideas
Maybe it's time to dust off transgender Azar?
>>47750278
No.
All it does is let you leave your group behind.
>>47749194
Definitely Tuatha. Can't wait to Riastrad.
>>47751146
>>47751110
>>47751033
So the /tg/ band is a Tuatha, a Netjer, and a Manitouk
>>47751182
Is a band the Scion equivalent of a coterie/throng/meret/etc?
I know fuck all about Scion, and I'm not gonna bother reading 1e if 2e seems to be throwing much of it out the window. Still very excited, though.
>>47751182
Their theme can be that they're a band.
>>47751207
Yeah Band is the colloquial for team.
>>47751127
Oh you play Mage with cabals?
>>47751261
I would have assumed that was the default, as until now (and in the case of one guy playing an an Archmaster) I have never heard of people playing Mage one-on-one.
Doesn't make the merit any less potent for NPCs however.
>>47751300
I played a one on one game
>>47751300
If you have 3 or 4 dudes cabaless games are possible.
>>47751300
>I have never heard of people playing Mage one-on-one.
I play in a one-on-one game of Mage: The Awakening 2eusing only its lore, under an entirely different system. I play an Acanthus with a Spirit Ruling Legacy who spends most of their time in the Shadow, entreating spirits and casting subtle spells into the material world to help people with their everyday lives.
>Doesn't make the merit any less potent for NPCs however.
Astral Adept does not prevent you from having to leave your unconscious body behind in the material world. It also costs 3 Experiences in a game wherein raising an Arcanum costs only 4 Experiences, and improving Gnosis costs 5.
What are the best 2e merits? What are only worth it in character creation?
Does True friend also count as an allies *** merit?
>>47751427
As in, the 3-4 players do not have some cohesive reason to organise together, splitting your session into tiny fragments where you focus on each of them independantly to the exclusion of the others?
How on earth do you ever get anything done.
>>47751428
However it also permits access to the Astral regardless of access to certain areas, uses Willpower instead of Mana, and is accessible to Sleepwalkers.
It has its benefits.
>>47751503
No they work within their own orders. Magic kind of makes distance moot. They hardly come together in one place to meet.
Just noticed Matter 2 can inflict the earthquake tilt.
Does that mean the Shaping spell is the lowest prerequisite highest damage over time ability in the entire game?
>>47751440
Mystery Cult Initiation is by far one of the strongest Merits in all of Chronicles of Darkness, because it gives you *more* Merits for taking it, along with Status in a cult. Mystery Cult 5 gives you 10 XP's worth of benefits on top of Status 5, making you cult leader.
If you are a vampire, the best way to make use of Mystery Cult Initiation is to take it all the way to 5, be a member of the Ordo Dracul, and take Secret Society Junkie 1, effectively giving you Herd 5.
Mystery Cult Influence is a mage-only Merit that is essentially Mystery Cult Initiation with none of the downsides. You cannot take two instances of either, but you can, if you so wish, take Mystery Cult Influence chaining into Mystery Cult Initiation, for Status 5 in two cults.
Consilium/Order Status, also exclusive to mages, can confer upon you *more* Merits as well. You can requisition a startling amount of Merits with these, and they last for an entire story.
Professional Training is yet another Merit that objectively gives you more XP worth of benefits than you spend on it. It is a must-have for any mortal.
Area of Expertise 1 + Interdisciplinary Specialty 1 arguably gives you a flexible +2 bonus on many applications of Skills, though the RAW here is questionable.
Eye for the Strange 2 is essential for any mortal investigator of the occult, for mortals have very few other methods for reliably identifying the supernatural.
Good Time Management 1 halves all extended action times. All of them.
Indomitable 2 helps protect you against the ubiquitous mental influence powers of all supernaturals, though sadly, it does not improve Withstand against a mage's spells.
Virtuous 2 combined with a high base Willpower can give you a tremendous influx of Willpower.
Quick Draw 1 is mandatory for anyone with a weapon.
Allies is fairly useful considering that you can extend your influence for major favors without much consequence (the dot returns at the end of the chapter anyway).
>>47751564
You're still splitting your attention as GM.
That they're predominatly working with their own Order of NPCs rather than alone with limited Order support is irrelevant.
Did anyone make a D&D style lich legacy for Mage: The Awakening second edition yet? I'd prefer to find one online before trying to make it myself.
>>47751593
Do you build merits around character instead of power gaming?
>>47751593
Fast-Talking 1-3 is a cheap source of benefits on Social rolls.
Resources is, as always, quite useful considering the sheer breadth of equipment it opens up. Granted, it can also be substituted with other dots (e.g. Allies, Larceny) due to Availability not necessarily calling for Resources.
Retainer is quite an effective Merit because of the dice pools and action economy benefits it offers you. Remember that Sanctity of Merits applies, and your Retainer can always suffer a heroic death on your behalf.
Striking Looks 1-2 is another low-cost source of bonuses on Social rolls.
Fighting Finesse 2 allows for fully Dexterity-based melee combatants, and works even for grappling.
Firefight 1 provides a potentially huge bonus to initiative for a gunslinger, and Firefight 2 has shoddy wording that arguably allows Defense to be applied against firearms attacks at all times.
Light Weapons 1 is an initiative boost at no penalty for a knife-wielder.
Martial Arts 1-5 is the single best unarmed combat-improving Merit in the game.
Clinch Strike 1 ( https://docs.google.com/document/d/1bH4XMrM7iovLQGBLJGVXHDTGXUrNc0JMy22wc-5MxZ8/edit ) offers a great action economy advantage for a grappler.
For mortals, Biokinesis 1 halves all healing times.
For mages, Shadow Name 3 makes for an incredibly useful and versatile Yantra, and it helps you resist being discovered in your "mundane" persona too.
>>47751503
>it also permits access to the Astral regardless of access to certain areas
I would expect that from a three-dot Merit.
>uses Willpower instead of Mana
Not that much of a benefit, considering how easy both Willpower and Mana come to a mage given Praxes.
>and is accessible to Sleepwalkers
This is not a selling point to a character who is a full-blown mage.
>>47751458
As written, no. You must purchase such separately. True Friend is very overpriced for what it does, particularly considering that the Willpower point comes only once per *story*.
>>47751593
>>47751744
Another excellent Physical Merit is Parkour 3. The one- and two-dot benefits are solid enough (I wonder, considering how loose and ambiguous page 69 of the Chronicles of Darkness core rulebook is concerning sources of modifiers, does a penalty for poor equipment count as an "environmental penalty"?), but the third dot:
>Wall Run (•••): When climbing, your character can run upward for some distance before having to traditionally climb. Without rolling, your character scales10 feet + five feet per dot of Athletics as an instant action, rather than the normal 10 feet.
Is nearly physics-defying. With Dexterity 3 and Athletics 5, no specialty required, you can use an instant action to automatically run 35 feet up a wall.
>>47751590
Yes. Matter 2's Shaping is a *very* versatile spell and absolutely should be placed on Rote, but it is somewhat impractical for creating Environmental Tilts, which cost two Reaches. Even if you do pay that cost, you will have to pay another Reach for instant action casting, another Reach for Advanced Duration (either that or take penalties for Duration spell factors), another Reach for Advanced Scale (either that or penalties for Scale factors), and yet another Reach for sensory range (unless you want the epicenter to be right where you are standing). Even then, nothing prevents the earthquake from being ally-friendly, or even self-friendly, short of another spell.
>>47751900
>another Reach for Advanced Scale (either that or penalties for Scale factors), and yet another Reach for sensory range (unless you want the epicenter to be right where you are standing). Even then, nothing prevents the earthquake from being ally-friendly, or even self-friendly, short of another spell.
Base scale is roughly a circle with a size of arms outstretched, enoguh to encircle a person.
You can throw it at someone to tag them, and for the duration the area around them out to arm's reach will be affected by the Tilt.
You don't even need to spend much on Duration, base Duration with the Advanced factor is one scene, enough to inflict a few hundred levels of damage.
>>47751711
Considering the sheer amount of trap options across the list of Merits, and the number of Merits which are simply *better* than most others, yes. Have a look at one of the worst Merits in the game, Small-Framed:
>Small-Framed (••)
>Effect: Your character is diminutive. He’s not five feet, and it’s easy to walk into him without noticing. He’s Size 4, and thus has one fewer Health box. He gains +2 to any rolls to hide or go unnoticed, and this bonus might apply any time being smaller would be an advantage, such as crawling through smaller spaces. Available only at character creation.
>Drawback: In addition to the lower Health, your character might be overlooked or not taken seriously by some people.
Why would you ever take this for 2 XP, considering the drawbacks of being a manlet at Size 4? Taking Area of Expertise (Small) 1 and then Interdisciplinary Specialty (Small) 1 costs the same XP-wise, and offers the same benefits (and more) with no downside.
Here is another poor Merit:
>Fixer (••)
>Prerequisite: Contacts ••, Wits •••
>Effect: Your character is people that knows people. She can not only get in touch with the right people to do a job, but she can get them at the best possible prices. When hiring a service (see p. 100), reduce the Availability score of the service by one dot.
Why would you take this when you could simply increase whatever Skill or Merit you normally use to acquire goods and services? The only time I could ever see this being useful is if you have Resources 5 and absolutely *must* have the best services available (not goods, only services), and even then, that provides diminishing returns compared to increasing Resources from 4 to 5.
>>47751946
Matter spells can only affect Matter, if you want to create one that's centered on an individual person and follows them around, that's a self-modifying spell which migrates between Matter to follow them.
Which would be Matter 6, Practice of Dynamics.
>>47751900
>Is nearly physics-defying. With Dexterity 3 and Athletics 5, no specialty required, you can use an instant action to automatically run 35 feet up a wall.
It's worth noting that Athletics 5 is Usain Bolt levels of athleticism, and thus something achieved by a very small number of people.
But, yeah, that is pretty ridiculous.
>>47751978
Because some people build around a character, rather than an xp cost.
Again, though, yeah, those merits are kinda trash from a mechanical standpoind.
>>47751593
Do you have a mega of your images or something? I really love 2hus in casual clothing.
>>47751998
>Basing a discussion of 2e mechanics on a 1e understanding of the rules
>>47751998
>, if you want to create one that's centered on an individual person and follows them around
It's not a self migrating effect, it's a spell that was anchored to a target to affect the area around it.
If that gets disallowed lots of spells break apart. Web of life for example is cast on yourself, but the range to which it can detect stuff is limited by its scale factor.
>>47751946
If the Area for Shaping is left at default, then the target can simply step outside of it. It would be good against, say, a building's foundation though.
Two Reaches for the Earthquake Environmental Tilt, a Reach for instant action casting, and a Reach for sensory range already fills out your free Reaches.
Speaking of Environmental Tilts, it is a little frustrating that Matter 3's Windstrike and Prime 3's Aetheric Winds fail to specify the strength of the Heavy Winds.
>>47752001
>It's worth noting that Athletics 5 is Usain Bolt levels of athleticism, and thus something achieved by a very small number of people.
White Wolf/Onyx Path has always had the despicable habit of listing down dot levels for Skills and telling you that "at 3 dots, you are awesome; at 4, you are very awesome and can do this; and at 5, you are extremely awesome and can perform mind-boggling stunts."
Unfortunately, these are and will always be deeply misleading, because the difference between 2 dots in a skill and 5 dice is *one* success on average. A character needs to back up a high rating in a Skill with Attributes and Merits; Usain Bolt certainly is not going to have just Athletics 5, but high Strength, Dexterity, and Stamina and Merits like Fleet of Foot.
Five dots in a Skill, on its own, absolutely does not make you near-superhuman.
>>47752016
I simply search for tags like "casual," "contemporary," "cityscape," and "city" on Danbooru. I use such images in these threads because they are modern, although if there is a more thematically appropriate image for what I am currently speaking of, I will use that instead.
>>47752026
Matter 2's Shaping speaks of affecting matter, not a living subject.
>>47751978
>>47752001
>Fixer
you know in the last thread I had the idea of playing a Mehket fixer that travels abroad helping journalists. Basically as a way to do a lot of investigating himself without being famous enough to have people looking at him.
>>47752026
>Web of life for example is cast on yourself
It most certainly is not.
It is cast with an individual or area scane, the information is merely received by the Mage due to the Practice of Knowing.
It cannot be used to create a mobile area of detection for the Mage.
That would be a different spell endowing the target with such an ability, not the Practice of Knowing.
>>47752066
>If the Area for Shaping is left at default, then the target can simply step outside of it.
The target is the target, it stays the target no matter where it goes.
If you cast at a large ship and use enoguh scale to affect the entire ship (say, the large warehouse scale), the ship can't move out of the area because it's the target of the Area.
Dave gabe the example related to targeting Area effects:"Yes, but "affect everything in an area I'm touching" is valid, so you could touch the *house* and the area of effect would hit everyone in it. "
If someone in that example moved the *house* while the spell (maybe teleporting it somewhere else) was still in effect, the house in everyone in it would still be affected. Because the target was the house, and the spell doesn't care if it moved somewhere else.
>>47752066
>It would be good against, say, a building's foundation though.
Buildings don't take damage from the Earthquake tilt.
>>47752113
>The target is the target
Matter spells can't target things which aren't Matter.
Same as Life spells can't target something which isn't alive, e.g. you can't use Life to create a rock which causes everything around it to regenerate.
There is a get-around with Prime and Imbuing targets with spells, but that's hardly combat applicable.
>>47752113
>The target is the target, it stays the target no matter where it goes.
Mage 2e is extremely poorly written with respect to actually naming the specific target of any given spell. For most spells, one has to carefully watch out for any mentions of "the subject" or "the mage" to see how targeting works.
Matter 2's Shaping is ambiguous on what a valid target is, but I am inclined to believe it to be, well, the matter to be shaped.
Have a look at Matter 3's Windstrike and Prime 3's Aetheric Winds. These are spells that can unambiguously, directly target a creature. For a Reach, they can create Environmental Tilts such as Heavy Winds, but they remain in "the immediate vicinity" rather than anchoring themselves to the target.
>Buildings don't take damage from the Earthquake tilt.
I suppose that is true.
Alright /cofd/, I have just drafted up a Mage 2e character and want to shore up obvious weaknesses in more core strategy.
My plan, which thanks to GM discussion will be fully implemented at chargen, is to construct an immense statue out of components I have cast Alter Integrity on, and then Golem it, using my own 2 dot ghost familiar as its core intelligence.
Now, with Size 10, Durability 9, and Structure 21 this thing has considerable resistance to most save or die equivalents a mage can pull on objects. But it does still count as a physical object for the purposes of spells and thus has a few vulnerabilities.
Chief amongst these are, as far as I can tell, are Ghostwall and Transubstantiation. The Ghost itself as a controlling entity doesn't seem to be a major weakpoint since it is difficult to target hidden inside the golem. Anyone with active Death sight will be able to intuit there is a ghost in there somewhere because it's anchored and manifested as a familiar, but they can't actually perceive it near as I can read.
The question is, what kind of Imago could I use to create a shielding spell that protects a material against Ghostwall and Transsubstantiation? Mainly concerned with instant casting as I ritual cast maintenance and upgrades on the thing. (Would it sound reasonable to you guys if you were GMing to have some kind of "non-newtonian pattern" imago that resists attempts to alter an object in instant action casting time?)
I also need to consider that the imago needs to be compatible with the imago for Golem itself, which is presumably flexing material in real time to move the statue. That last fact is making this far harder than it otherwise would be.
>>47752134
>Matter spells can't target things which aren't Matter.
Cite?
Because if that was a rule that would mean you cannot cast Machine invisibility on a person you want to veil from machines.
Seriously, "Matter spells can't target things which aren't Matter."??
How fucking dumb is that?
>>47752157
>Matter 2's Shaping is ambiguous on what a valid target is, but I am inclined to believe it to be, well, the matter to be shaped.
That would be a way to make it more balanced.
If the earthquake tilt wasn't as utterly brainfuckingly stupid as it is, you wouldn't need to make that ruling though.
So in this specific case I am more inclined to blame the rules for that Tilt than the ambiguousness of Shaping.
>>47750397
I thought he was a walloping great demon man.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SLCuL-K39eQ
>>47752198
Talk to a Prime Mage about hitting it up with a High Potency "Wards and Signs" inscribed with a Rune on an obscure part of the Golem.
Then when you need to modfiy it further, either wait for the Spell to subside or fudge that Rune, then get them to reapply it.
I had a strange idea for a Bloodline Curse, to put it simply, the mind of the Embraced remains the same no matter the current state of their body.
It's sort of an inversion of the "1000 year old Vampire in the body of a 16 year old girl", it's more "16 year old girl in the body of a 1000 year old vampire when said body is still subject to the affects of decay."
>>47752198
>chargen
>Golem
>4 dot spell
lel
>>47752316
>chargen
Not everyone wants to start at the same level.
Last game I had started with the equivalent of an extra 21 experiences.
>>47752288
That might be interesting. A lot of embraces usually tend to be young because of the sire sensing potential and also because its easier for a young person to go missing or change their live drastically as apposed to someone in their late 30s doing the same thing.
It sounds like a Ventrue Bloodline. One that admires prudence,maturity and patience. Think of all the Incidents that would happen with a room filled with vampires who never grew out of their early 20s with eternity to fuck eachother over.
>>47752198
>this thing has considerable resistance to most save or die equivalents a mage can pull on objects
Exceptional successes (especially via Praxis) still ignore all Withstand, and Advanced Scale with a -2 spell factor penalty can affect ten subjects each of Size 10 or less.
>what kind of Imago could I use to create a shielding spell that protects a material against Ghostwall and Transsubstantiation?
An imago analogous to Mind 2's Mental Shield or Spirit 2's Ephemeral Shield would do, seeing how, with +1 Reach, either spell can shield against its own Arcanum.
You will want a Veiling spell to conceal it from mundane senses as well.
>>47752221
Earthquake is indeed a very silly Environmental Tilt.
Mage 2e could, in general, use something along the lines of D&D 4e's "Target" line, such as "Target: Subject matter," "Target: Subject creature," or "Target: The casting mage."
>>47752316
it works if he has 2 dots in Death and 4 in Matter...I think.
>>47752316
>>47752325
Yeah I've had 1 in the last 15 games of nWoD or CofD that I've played use 0XP starts. It's just kind of lame. And for especially restricting in Mage 2e given the ghosts requirements for arcana.
This one is starting at 18xp, IE by spending everything I have, I can start at matter 4 / death 3 / space 1.
>>47752353
Well yeah, you're fairly spot on, I guess what I mean is it at least forces an attacker to spend 1 more reach, take another -2, and then get an exceptional success on top of whatever they normally need for their (already spending a reach for instant) spell. Good point about just enlisting a prime mage for shielding, and veiling it sufficiently is going to be very tough. Mainly planning to use it for sanctum defence and in rural areas, but you make a good point that it's not out of the question to render it mundanely silent and invisible.
>>47751978
>Touhou considers WoD as having trap options
That's because you don't understand the game, and only think about the mechanics. Fixer is bad because *obviously* you can just buy another dot of the MONEY Merit. It's not like money might not fit your concept, it's not like the ST might not allow you to buy another dot. It exists, so that means it's okay.
>>47752066
Yes, we're all aware that mechanically, the game does not have enough gradation for the difference in rolls between 1 and 5 to matter much. But the RATINGs on the other hand say that a character with 5 dots is going to be near-superhuman. Which is why a character with Parkour and Athletics 5 is going to be nearly superhuman.
You always do this thing where you ignore anything but the mechanics. You think that a character should be able to become Firearms 5 by simply going to the shooting range on their lunchbreak, because you think you should be able to put your dots wherever you please, regardless of what they mean.
>>47752113
>Buildings don't take damage from the Earthquake tilt.
I fail to see why they wouldn't. Structures can also take damage.
>>47752657
Shhh, Aspel. Just shhhhh.
>>47752390
Even without abusing Mystery Cult Initiation/Influence, 18 XP is enough to start with Gnosis 5 (starting Gnosis 3) and 5/2/1 for Arcana, using your free Order Status 1 for any Social Merits you might need.
>>47752458
>Good point about just enlisting a prime mage for shielding
This will work against only Awakened magic. It will not save you from any other supernatural creature using object-affecting abilities.
>you make a good point that it's not out of the question to render it mundanely silent and invisible.
Sending the robot to Twilight via Death 3's Ghost Gate and then using creative thaumaturgy to apply a reverse version of Death 2's Touch of the Grave (allow Twilight to affect material, rather than the other way around) may be a good idea.
>>47752687
>Disagreeing with Touhou is against the rules
>>47752721
I'm just tired of the argument being constant. And Aspel is the one constantly flinging mud.
>>47752734
>Only one person ever disagrees with Touhou
>>47751440
TEN DOTS IN CULT
>>47752749
That one is decidedly Aspel, no second guessing.
>>47752734
>And Aspel is the one constantly flinging mud.
I thought that was Tohou? Well it seems that if we're lucky we can go half a thread without the two of them flinging poo at each other .
>>47752759
I'm Aspel. I'm just pointing out that you're being dumb. People were criticizing Touhou while I was out. I'm not constantly flinging mud, I'm pointing out that the game is not meant to be played the way that Touhou treats it as being played.
Most STs are not going to say "okay, sure, you can buy Athletics 5 even though your character is an MLG Gamer who solves mysteries.
>>47752760
Pointing out the flaws in someone's advice/way of looking at things isn't "flinging poo". Besides, the last thread or two was fine, except for people worshiping at Touhou's alter and complaining about a spell that's going to be changed before it can be changed.
So assuming I go through with the suggestion to use ghost gate and twilight touch effects to render the holes invisible, what do people think would occur?
IE when you bind a ghost or spirit to a golem, does its twilight form cease to exist? Because if not, ghost gate may in fact telefrag it.
Like yeah, yeah depends on the GM because the spell is vague about a very niche interaction, but I'm interested in getting a net of opinions.
>>47753070
>holes
Golem. For fucks sake autocorrect.
That said just filling a place with ghostwalled pits is also a neat trick for the civilised matter 4 mage.
>>47752657
>I fail to see why they wouldn't. Structures can also take damage.
Because a) the tilt specifies that it does damage to characters, and b) buildings have Durability that reduces damage, and the Earthquake Tilt doesn't actually deal enough at each interval to pierce that for anything but the weakest structures.
Hurt Locker when
>>47751088
Link?
>>47753587
It also says that the reason it does damage to characters is due to debris. Not everything needs to be spelled out for you in strict mechanical terms.
>>47751744
What if I want someone to be a true friend/lover bit not pay the steep cost? Would Ally be enough?
>>47752860
>Most STs are not going to say "okay, sure, you can buy Athletics 5 even though your character is an MLG Gamer who solves mysteries.
Dexterity 5 and Athletics 5 for my mage character (when we were still using Mage 2e as opposed to another system altogether) were approved under the logic that one hereditary property of their Proximi Dynasty an extreme natural limberness at the cost of ineptitude in other physical fields.
>>47753070
There is nothing stating that a ghost or a spirit absolutely has to be "within" a material golem, so presumably a golem sent to Twilight could be operated by a ghost or a spirit riding atop it.
Additionally, note that by RAW, Retainer can only go up to five dots, so even a Size 10 golem will still have, at most, 10 dice for its combat pools.
If anything, the ideal method of utilizing a golem would be to have it be roughly human-sized (perhaps slightly more or less), and then give it a firearm, so that it can at least bypass Defense.
>>47753819
Explain to your GM that True Friend is overpriced and should cost only one or two Merit dots, or simply take Ally 5 and explain that your friend has both very high competence and a "lotta loyalty."
>>47753867
Im more interested in loyalty rather than competence.
Also I want my character to have an infamous mentor is the merit worth it though?
>>47753884
Allies 5 gives your allies (or ally, seeing how the Merit explicitly points out that it can be represented by a single individual) the willingness to perform remarkably risky tasks on your behalf, which is certainly a sign of loyalty.
Infamous Mentor's value depends on how harsh your GM is with "but will later look down upon the student for leaning on the Mentor’s reputation." If you are simply looking for more Merit dots for the sake of more Merit dots, consider Mystery Cult Influence (which lets you acquire Infamous Mentor anyway).
>>47753819
The real benefit of True Friend is that it gives you Willpower. Although I will agree with Touhou on this. A Touchstone is only 1 dot.
>>47753867
>Dexterity 5 and Athletics 5 for my mage character (when we were still using Mage 2e as opposed to another system altogether) were approved under the logic that one hereditary property of their Proximi Dynasty an extreme natural limberness at the cost of ineptitude in other physical fields.
Yes, but the person you're playing with is also someone who's willing to put up with you abusing the system. That was the entire reason you were kicked from the group and had to do a one on one in the first place. That's hardly "most STs".
As for Golem, there's no reason you couldn't make it go above a 5 dot Retainer. The merit is related to Potency, which isn't limited to 5.
A spirit or ghost (I'd also allow a goetia) being bound to it is also essentially Geisting, not controlling it in a little cockpit. It would be fine in Twilight, though.
>>47753884
Most STs aren't going to have your Allies betray you anyway. True Friend is for players who are paranoid.
Infamous Mentor is basically just a Mentor, but infamous.
>>47753923
You know, most STs are not going to allow the kind of Mystery Cult shenanigans you pretend they will. A mentor that cares about you specifically is not a benefit befitting an entire cult, and Mystery Cult represents the cult's benefits, not you personally.
>>47754026
>Yes, but the person you're playing with is also someone who's willing to put up with you abusing the system. That was the entire reason you were kicked from the group and had to do a one on one in the first place.
The original ST of the game had also allowed the Dexterity 5 and the Athletics 5. It was only when I laboriously explained the breaking points of Fate and Time that I was booted from the group, at which point another player left as well and offered to ST for me.
>You know, most STs are not going to allow the kind of Mystery Cult shenanigans you pretend they will.
They really should acknowledge it as an issue and offer to repair such via a house rule, but if they do not, that is their metaphorical burden to bear.
>A mentor that cares about you specifically is not a benefit befitting an entire cult, and Mystery Cult represents the cult's benefits, not you personally.
In page 52 of the Chronicles of Darkness core rulebook, both cults' benefits can include Retainers. It hardly seems unthinkable that a cult can provide a Mentor.
>>47753923
No Im not after the merits thays just a plus. My idea is that my Mentor is a former High Ranking member of the Consilium and a respected Mystagouge. He became jaded with Awakened politics and decided to focus on his mundane life. His grandson who is his sleepwalker assistant is the husband of my pc. They found me in some island with Atlantean ruins in one of their fishing trips. My PC has no recollection of how she got there.
So I want to make a bed shaped machine that has concealed weapons which I can control with my thoughts. What merits do I need.
>>47754114
Allies, Infamous Mentor, and regular Mentor all work for such.
>>47754146
That depends on what your template is, and whether or not you are allowed to port over nWoD 1e Merits such as Relic.
>>47754146
You what
>>47754106
Well neither of your STs were "most STs". Having been in a game with you and seen the way you argue, I still have a hard time believing they didn't browbeat you and give in to get you to stop arguing about it.
Also, no, they shouldn't acknowledge that. Again, it does whatever the group wants to allow. It needs to be flexible to do what it's supposed to. There shouldn't be some one size fits all answer, and there's not even any way to future proof it. Just because you argue something can be used for ridiculous purposes doesn't mean anything. Some aspects of the game are always going to be left up to the Storyteller.
>both cults' benefits can include Retainers. It hardly seems unthinkable that a cult can provide a Mentor.
Sure. A normal mentor, yeah. Several Hunter groups have that. I think the Lucifuge lets you take The Lady in Milan as a Mentor. But the specific Mage merit of having an Infamous mage Mentor? That's not very fitting.
>>47754171
>Relic for a bedbot
I would have thought you'd hate Relic. Reliquary is a pretty shitty book with shitty mechanics.
Badman classic Mastigos.
>>47754198
Aspel please go.
>>47754217
>>47754198
>But the specific Mage merit of having an Infamous mage Mentor? That's not very fitting.
If the cult's instructors are infamous themselves, why not?
I'm planning on running a VtR 2nd Edition game here soon for the first time. I've only ever played VtM 20th Edition. Anything I should look out for? Have a plot and some players in my head and planning a lot of it around that. Any ideal group size for these games?
>>47754244
1 player + 1 ST works best for any nWoD/CofD game.
>>47754223
>Has complete control over dreamworld
>teleports
>endless philosophical discussions of the nature and sins of man
>wants to create a world reality can be shaped much like dreams
>beleives that hopes/dreams must become material because it is only when man loses something material do they realize its value.
Mastigos all right
>>47754261
We had 4-5 players when I first tried as a player. Thats abnormal?
>>47754230
The Mentor is not in anyway related to a cult. He is reclusive hermit who has distanced himself from Awakened society.
>>47754292
I was referring to the hypothetical scenario of a mystery cult providing Mentor or Infamous Mentor, not your character in specific.
>>47752066
>Five dots in a Skill, on its own, absolutely does not make you near-superhuman.
I noticed this pretty early on as well. The difference is just 1-2 dice. I wish STs would stop acting like it's such a huge deal.
>>47754271
no, not even remotely abnormal.
>>47754106
>..It was only when I laboriously explained the breaking points of Fate and Time that I was booted from the group..
I just don't understand the approach. You take the game which is about rattling the bars of the cosmic metaphysical cage on the souls of humanity. And then you --do nothing with it--. Instead of exploring the consequences and limitations of your actions. Basically the whole argument against putting attention to the tension points of the Magic system boils down to "uh, can you please not?"
I just don't understand how this is in any way thematic, even disregarding the game-breaking-ness aspect of several options for a bit.
Latest snapshot of thesubnet is up now: raumwalross.tk
Some of the issues are going to be fixed soon.
For reporting everything that is wrong with it there is a pad:
https://raumwalross.titanpad.com/17
>Mage 2e still clinging to Paths with prepackaged Arcana
To what end.
>you will never have a Death/Mind/Spirit-ruling ephemeral entity specialist
>>47754106
>It was only when I laboriously explained the breaking points of Fate and Time that I was booted from the group
I fucking knew you were That Guy IRL, too. How do you not understand how irritating you are, when even your IRL friends kick you out for going on about this shit?
>>47755379
Clearly not that bad if he scored a solo game.
>>47755335
What are watchtowers? Also you sure can with exp
>>47755335
I recommend the Chronicler's Guide, or Ascension.
>>47753672
>b) buildings have Durability that reduces damage, and the Earthquake Tilt doesn't actually deal enough at each interval to pierce that for anything but the weakest structures.
>>47755424
>Chronicler's Guide
Something for STs.
Some peeps from uni want to start a nWoD Mage game, where do I even start getting a grip on this setting?
>>47755513
The Matrix is a good start.
>>47755513
RTFM.
>>47755513
Its fucking labyrinthine. Realistically speaking you should pick one aspect of the fluff to really focus on, make up a bunch of fun setting aspects to support and buffer that, and then learn about the rest as you go.
Like no shit the amount of books you would need to at the very least skim to have a comprehensive understanding of the setting is insane. Core is pretty poor at explaining itself too.
I would suggest that before you even start planning, read the Core book cover to cover, followed by at least one of your preference from:
- Sanctum and Sigil (Shows how Mage society works in the broadest strokes, also has neat base building stuff)
- Tome of the Mysteries (Clarifies a shitload of casting rules, particularly clarifies the process of forging magic items, and provides an extra grab bag of fluff)
- Intruders: Encounters with the Abyss (Lays out the Abyss' actual deal and M.O.)
- Astral Realms (Lays out the entirety of the Astral and its inhabitants in great detail, as opposed to the light mention it gets in core. It easily contains enough material for several campaigns, somewhat tempered by the PCs needing to spend most of a day meditating to get there.)
- Summoners (A fairly robust guide to otherworldly creatures in Mage, the realms they come from, how to summon them, get rid of them etc.)
That should leave you with enough content floating around to start putting pieces together. Once you fully understand SOME of the Mage setting its miles easier to expand your understanding. Honestly you can probably bullshit your way through Mage once you've read core + one of the above books.
Once you see what sort of characters people have made and what kind of game you feel like running you can consider some of the secondary expansions, such as the Order Books (Adamantine Arrow, Guardians of the Veil etc.) if nearly everyone is in one order, or its a GENUINELY wizard politics campaign.
>>47752657
>That's because you don't understand the game, and only think about the mechanics.
The mechanics are the only part of the game that matters to everyone. The traditional method of developing game rules are going to inevitably develop trap options, and CofD is no different. Merits toe the line between being a feats system and a merits/flaws system, and because drawbacks are inconsistently applied to Merits, there's always going to be some that will come off as better and worse, and some might even come off looking like a trap, especially since all Merits cost the same per dot but can have very different effects in play.
When we're talking about the game in a heavily general setting like this, the nebulous idea of "in my game" only really works for people with storytimes. We don't have those, so naturally the thread should focus more on the rules. It's either that or shitposting, though I like the Scion talk quite a bit.
>>47751744
>Resources is, as always, quite useful considering the sheer breadth of equipment it opens up.
How do you rule it during play? Do your players have to first find source from where they could buy some more rare equipment (for instance work the black market to get automatic weapons)?
>>47755015
Cool. Looks swell. GJ
>>47755538
You what?
>>47755556
Oh, an outdated meme, thank you.
>>47756162
Cheers my main man, I'll start having a look over it all.
>>47756301
Mage is like being in the Matrix and knowing its an illusion
>>47756162
For the sake of at least attempting to spoonfeed you a primer/summary of what you should be able to figure out from Core alone:
In the distant past, many timelines ago, humans lived in perpetual fear of spirits and a million other types of occult bullshit and were totally rekt by them daily with no defense. They got a message to go meditate at some island and they did, which gave them wizard powers. They founded Atlantis there.
Atlantis was the beacon of civilisation and rapidly flourished as all of its inhabitants were smart and also had phenomenal cosmic powers. Eventually they decided they should build a huge ass ladder to the Supernal Realms, where their magic emanated from, to be closer to the source (And incidentally assume total control over all reality). Upon it being completed the Kings scuttled up and immediately went mad with power, the rampant reality distortions started tearing the ladder apart but some other fucks from Atlantis decided they wouldn't just lie down and take this sort of betrayal so they scuttled up and fought them.
Having a battle fought in the control room for reality itself is a bad idea. The breaking ladder tears a massive rip between material reality and the source of the symbols it is comprised of, revealing the Abyss for the first time. The Abyss is some other version of reality that is both lovecraftian and fucking awful (really more the latter than the former), and forever more fucks with all magic in the mortal world as it crosses the gap. Due to reality distortion both quarreling parties retroactively never existed in the mortal realm and are left mentally crippled but phenomenally powerful as 'gods' in the supernal.
Back in the mortal world, reality has been partially overwritten an uncountable number of times retroactively, gradually spreading the few intact fragments of Atlantis over the entire planet, some as if they were millenia old, others as if they were abandoned yesterday.
>>47756327
Oh, I've understood as far as that from what I've skimmed.
Is there a Moros Legacyc where the third ruling Arcana is Time? They observe change/stasis/transition through the lens of time?
>>47756334
>treating Atlantis lore as fact.
Go back to 1e core
>>47756344
They do have the Cult of the Doomsday Clock, but those guys are Left Handed...and insane.
>>47756426
One could refluff them I lime them as well.
>>47756334
I like to imagine he abyss as a combination of water pouring in from a leak and a distorted reflection.
>>47756334
So what is everyone kind of fighting for? Is it just inter-faction shit then? 'Cause all I hear about is like these vampires don't like them vampires kinda shit, is that the general gist for conflict?
>>47756334
Due to the advent of the abyss and the arguably instinctive exertion of control and oppression over reality by the Atlantean Kings, now far more supernal symbols than former mortals (and referred to as the Exarchs), people can't become WIZARDS anymore simply by being told how to do it. Magic fades, which is pretty ideal for the
However, after a while, the Awakenings begin. The proposed theory is that the Atlantean rebels set these Watchtowers up in the supernal to bring magic and thus a hope of freeing mankind from the oppressive reality created around them by the Exarchs. Almost at random, people all over the world have a bad week, spend a few hours tripping fucking balls and seeing elves and shit, then come out as Mages.
The Mages, re-established in numbers at least, seek a sense of identity and plunder it from the ruins of Atlantis, digging up trappings of major organisations, government departments, cults from that time. The original four orders (IE the non-Free council ones) are founded.
The Exarchs are pretty salty, and so they invade the minds of some of these new arrivals and make known their will to them. They assert that given they created reality as it is now, opposing them is an exercise in futility, and they will use their control over the world to greatly reward those who serve them and assist in eliminating the last vestiges of resistance to their rule.
Now from here, history proceeds, except with the Seers and the Diamond Orders fighting a very fierce recruitment war for the scarce Mages awakening throughout it.
Somewhere along the way people figure out how to become Archmages, where they begin constructing within their own soul a bridge to the supernal. In theory, the fruition of this process would result in them joining the Exarchs and the Watchtower's 'Oracles' in the Supernal, and changing the balance of control over reality that each possess. Because of reality distortions, noone would ever know if they succeed.
>>47756483
Pentacle vs Seers is the biggest fight.
Celestii and Banishers are a second.
Seers are basically the Kapos of the prison called reallity and want to keep humanity unenlightened and weak.
The others are nut jobs mostly, but Scelestii have a potentially higher impact in doing awfull things.
>>47756456
As in..nothing gets coloured in by bleedinb into reality and reality also bleeds into nozhing.
The result is the abyss.
>>47756363
He said nWoD. Therefore, 1e.
If he had said CofD I would not be writing it up like this.
>>47756483
Alright so right now I'm just covering MAGE ONLY problems. The World of Darkness itself has a huge variety of supernatural beings within it, that largely police themselves but can become major issues that Mages decide to deal with. The primary shit would be:
- Ghosts: They are real. There's also an underworld that they get sucked into if they don't pass on before their anchors get destroyed.
- Spirits: Basically totem spirits, but of literally any concept, from a cat to a car to sadness.
- Werewolves: Bound by ancient law to police these Spirits and keep people away from them / them away from people. But most of them are fucking assholes and ignore this. Ravenous monsters.
- Vampires: Probably the most numerous once-human supernatural after ghosts and way more... significant. The Vampires have their own society which polices them but this isn't always enough since the aforementioned society's moral code sees humans as potentially dangerous livestock. Most Mage societies will have a VERY uneasy truce with the Vampires in the city. Mages can expose the identities of and roast vampires like noone else, but vampires can multiply very quickly in response to a known existential threat (They normally just follow a rule of theirs that prevents them making tons more vampires everywhere) and if that fails, their oldest, most powerful can just go to sleep for a century and be nearly impossible to find until they emerge to a time that has forgotten all about them to unleash their grudge. Long story short, if either party is 100% sure they can get away with it they'll kill the other, but the war stays cold.
- Changelings: Dudes who escape kidnapping by the fae and return with changed bodies and powers. Still hunted by the fae. They use "The Hedge" which is an alternate dimension full of angry bramble bushes. It has nice stuff in it, but you'll never escape.
>>47756672
Wrong. Later 1e books dont treat Atlantean history as fact.
>>47756483
So, your main conflict is between the Pentacle and the Seers - the Pentacle wants to overthrow the Exarchs and defeat the Lie, and the Seers want to serve the Exarchs and preserve the Lie.
This gets more complicated, though, by the fact that the Pentacle isn't very unified - the Pentacle is actually an alliance between two separate Sects, the Diamond Orders and the Free Council, which have very different beliefs (all that stuff about Atlantis? Free Council doesn't believe ANY of that, which actually separates them from both the Diamond and the Seers). They're basically allies because they both hate the Seers that much. The Free Council alone is almost as big as the Diamond Orders put together, and there's a certain amount of internal tension between the two Sects, though they (usually) present a unified front against the Seers.
The Diamond Orders, too, are divided into the Silver Ladder, Adamantine Arrow, Mysterium, and Guardians of the Veil. They tend to get along... well, as well as any Mages get along, which means they all disagree on what their end goal beyond "beating the Exarchs and destroying the Lie" would be, or even the right way to beat the Exarchs and destroy the lie.
THEN you also have outliers like the Scelesti, who are Mages who deal with the Abyss, which are reviled by Seers and the Pentacle alike, and who occasionally band together in their own little mini-orders. You also have other "Left-Handed" mages like the Tremere, who practice things that the Orders find reprehensible and thus found their own little organizations in secret.
>>47756515
Seconding this guy.
Scelestii are Mages who have come to appreciate the Abyss. Given that the Abyss is only NOT the closest thing to pure evil in the World of Darkness because it doesn't readily map to the human concept of evil, this is a pretty nutso thing to do. Abyssal entities do reward them for their work corrupting other mages and reality itself, but it's very obviously not worth it. They do shit like swallowing ground glass to show their devotion. Tell me that sounds OKAY.
The Banishers are Mages whose awakening, for currently unknown reasons, made them instinctively fear and hate Mages. They are compulsively driven to murder Mages by any means possible. Most of them succeed at killing their first target with the element of surprise and get no further, but for some reason they grow in arcane power quicker than regular mages so the few that escape after that get REAL strong.
There's also the Mad, Mages who disobeyed their own moral code over and over enough that their souls broke, which ironically makes them WAY stronger at the cost of making them unable to even really perceive reality through all the magic and abyssal energy streaming out of them. This may make them sound like stronger Scelestii or Banishers: Stronger, Crazier edition, but unlike either of those they can't really be subtle or organised, they're just kind of singularly unstoppable.
There's also a shitload of Legacies that constitute micro-factions in and of themselves, chief example being the Tremere.
>>47756784
My favourite ministery is the Paternoster, either as enemies or as a possible player.
Their primary goal to practically enslave the human soul (more than the others) is so very harsh.
But on the other hand, their motivation seems to be the least selfish in a wierd way too.
While the conflict with the Seers is great, I am more interested in supernatural mysteries and conflict between beteen mages regarding said mystery. Think mushishi
I should be clear here that, despite all the focus we've put in on the Seers being the primary antagonists of Mage, to my knowledge most Mage campaigns don't actually deal PREDOMINANTLY with the Seers directly.
You should pick an aspect of the fluff that you like, and have enthusiasm for, try and make a mystery around that, and then have actual physical agents of the Seers only if their intervention makes sense. The Seers for instance would be 100% likely to try getting their mitts on an Atlantean artifact, but less likely to intervene to say, prevent the Pentacle discovering that Vampires are behind a bunch of recent mass disappearances. Because they are honestly not really fans of vampires, especially if they stop being the stabilising contribution to the Lie that they are when they are behaving properly (Vampires, being immortal, have a massive case of old man syndrome and given their infiltration of the upper echelons of society basically stagnate societal change by existing).
>>47756954
In that regard, you may want to read a book not DIRECTLY related to Mage, "Book of Spirits". It covers the material for Spirits in the greatest depth you'll find outside of Werewolf material, but much more concisely.
Cool influences for an Abyssal entity?
>>47757039
Oh and since it got lost in my revision, Spirits are the closest thing to Mushi you'll find in WoD.
Everything else is uh... different kind of supernatural mystery I guess. Like sure arguably vampires have an ecology with humans and can't help feeding, but they also have human minds and complex social mores.
Spirits are much better for a story about the interplay or imbalance of natural forces leading to mysterious issues.
>>47757044
Reality. Just take an aspect of your average, daily life... and twist it into something entirely meaning and senseless.
Consider, their have been Abyssal physics, histories, relationships, etc. Once you have the core idea, built an entity around that idea.
>>47757044
Your internet history.
>>47757044
Influences over... disgust? Sense of taste?
If you want something a little more whacky and terrifying, influences over Lexical Categories.
>>47757044
Invaders from gatekeepers. Beings born and multiply on human vice
>>47757192
I thought Vice was no longer a thing in 2e, or am I just thinking of supernaturals?
>>47757269
Vice is still a thing for regular mortals and mages. It is simply now usually replaced by template-specific equivalents.
>>47754171
Well the demon translation guide has a ability that lets you create relic from that book so I would say its mostly ok.
>>47757731
Thanks for clearing that up.
>>47757269
Vice is around for the most part. Some supernaturals have their own thing. Changelings, vampires and awoos off the top of my head. Vice is no longer one of the seven deadly sins(though it can be) nor is Virtue one of the heavenly virtues by default, however.
>>47757844
So getting your Vice turned into a hive for horrible Abyssal things would be...bad?
Shaping (matter 2) has Potency as a primary factor, but i don't see how Potency points are applied in the description, how does it work?
>>47751458
IIRC, the RAW is just a way to regain Willpower, but it can be stacked onto an Ally/Contact/Mentor/Retainer.
Okay, it's that idiot with a subnet mirror again.
I fixed most of the easy things, I'll later go over some assets and will try to check all the images on the site, but the biggest thing is those bloody css menus at the top. They'll take some time. But fear not, I've got it to work almost as good as the waybackmachine!
Again, if you wanna report some bug - here's the pad:
https://raumwalross.titanpad.com/17
>>47758382
Read the Reach options
>>47754589
People are aware of this. But most people would still like to stick to the narrative weight given to each dot. It's not like WoD really facilitates having 30 dots.
>>47755456
I forget that when Touhous is around, no one can do anything but follow RAW.
>>47756224
Or, you know, the thread should focus on the fluff. There's no reason it should focus on the rules, and most of the time it doesn't. This is not a game like D&D, it's a game where there is supposed to be more interaction with the ST. Most games aren't even going to have players make Mystery Cults, the ST will.
>>47756344
Make one
>>47759699
Keep defending faulty, shitty rules, Aspel. If the stupid fucking thing isn't enough to actually damage a building, the rule needs to change.
>>47759699
>Make one
Okay, any idea for Oblations or Quotes?
>"Nobody remembers the singer. The song remains."
>>47759758
Or you can understand that some things should be left in the hands of the ST? How much damage it does to a building isn't even important to the story. Hell, if you take it at RAW and ignore anything but the mechanics, you can be on a flat, featureless plain, lay down on the ground, and still get damaged. It outright says shit is getting ripped apart. Why do you specifically need everything spelled out for you in mechanics?
>Keep defending
I'm pretty sure I've actually said before that outside of maybe a supernatural power, I don't like Earthquake as a Tilt. Or any of the damage over time Tilts. Six seconds of being in an earthquake is enough to murder most characters, and I'd rather not do the "roll me Athletics three times" thing. I mean, I can definitely see it's uses in a game, but I like to keep rolls-per-turn as low as possible. So, no, it's not that I think that the rules are super perfect amazing and should be enshrined.
But your problem is that you think RAW and only RAW matters here. You think you shouldn't fill in the blanks. Or that there must not even be blanks to fill. This is the kind of attitude where you'd create an Earthquake in your Sanctum and go "there's no ruurus!" when the ST decides your back wall caves in and all your junk falls to the floor and breaks. Everything shudders and shakes and huge holes are rent into the ground. Doesn't matter if 3L doesn't get passed the Durability.
If you can't handled that this game isn't meant to spell everything out for you like D&D or make you find the square root like Shadowrun, then you're really in the wrong game. If a game has bad mechanics I have no problem complaining about it. When the game does what it wants and intends to but you disagree? Again, I don't like how Defense is handled I change that for my game. I disagree with it, but it does what it intends to do, so I'm not going to complain about it, just explain what I did when someone else does.
>>47759337
Thanks for what you're doing.
>>47760012
I'd need a lot more to go off of than "observe change/stasis/transition through the lens of time?"
>"This thing all things devours, Birds, beasts, trees, and flowers. Gnaws iron bites steel, Grinds hard stones to meal, Slays king, ruins town, And beats high mountain down"
Oblations:
Writing speculative fiction, researching history, ancestor worship, researching futurism, curating historical artifacts
>>47760233
>curating historical artifacts
Why did that make me think of Uncle from Jackie Chan Adventures?
>>47760233
Your quote is way better than mine.
>>47760150
Yes, you stupid, stupid fuck. RAW is what actually matters here. Just because YOU disagree that it's a problem doesn't make you right, you spergy little cocksucker.
>>47760233
Which Order would suit them best do you think? I'm thinking Mysterium myself.
>>47760346
There is no need to be upset.
>>47760346
Saying "you don't need this spelled out for you" is like the exact opposite of Asperger's, man. You're the "spergy" one, when you're going into conniptions because you need to know exactly how much damage is done to the structures. Plus, by RAW, well,
>Everything shudders and shakes; huge rents and holes tear the ground wide open.
If you're having trouble with that, you're probably also having trouble with determining the quake's severity in the first place.
Just because YOU disagree that it's not a problem doesn't make you right.
>>47760315
It's a line from The Hobbit, during the riddle game between Gollum and Bilbo.
>>47760376
I generally only ever concern myself with Mysterium and Free Council, sometimes Adamantine Arrow for punchy people. Silver Ladder might be a good fit here, though.
>>47760520
>This rule actively doesn't do what it's meant to do
>Whaaa, this is totally fine and ok, shut up
No, spergmaster extreme. It doesn't actually do what it claims to do, that means, wait for it.
IT IS A BAD RULE AND SHOULD. BE. FUCKING. CHANGED. YOU MOUTHBREATHING RETARD.
>>47760564
It does exactly what it's meant to do. Are you seriously flipping your shit while calling other people spergs?
>>47758031
Yes.
>>47748845
Could you use Prime to create a bond/strengthen a bond a la Fate 5's true love?
Can you make two people who hate each other deeply do Agg to each other by being each other's banes?
Can you make a person ignore wound penalties via unmaking or freying?
Could you convince Trump that all a wall would do is put ladder makers in business?
>>47761473
>Can you make two people who hate each other deeply do Agg to each other by being each other's banes?
Wouldn't the aggravated damage be extremely painful though?
>>47761533
You've got the giant merit, 5 stam and some sorta armored mask, I think you can handle it
>>47759699
>Or, you know, the thread should focus on the fluff. There's no reason it should focus on the rules, and most of the time it doesn't. This is not a game like D&D, it's a game where there is supposed to be more interaction with the ST.
We have few storytimes, and the storytimes we do have are mostly ignored or written off for not being in the right setting. Character concept discussion doesn't last for very long. Homebrew discussion rarely takes off, especially since the person who most commonly does homebrew never bothers to revise or publish their revisions. Setting speculation runs in circles and is either focused on a setting that has told its story or a setting where the speculation ultimately does not matter. That just leaves the rules themselves, and how they are played.
"This isn't D&D" is an old, tired excuse for trying to shut down rules discussion. It doesn't matter if it's not D&D, there's nothing inherently special about Storyteller that makes it immune to treating it like a game.
>>47762088
>the storytimes we do have are mostly ignored or written off for not being in the right setting
But it's fucking W/CoD.
>>47762088
So why, exactly, do we need a permanent general thread? Are there really so many pressing questions about rules in WoD that it would flood the board to have them posted individually?
>>47762269
We don't, and we never should have had a general in the first place. But it's far too late for that now.
>>47751428
>>47751593
>>47751744
>>47751900
>>47751978
>>47752066
>>47752066
>>47752157
>>47752353
>>47752689
>>47753867
>>47753923
>>47754106
>>47754171
>>47754230
>>47754309
>>47755335
Take your anime girl posting to >>>/a/. This shit has nothing to do with WoD or /tg/.
>>47762517
Touhou posting was on /tg/ long before you, young autist, and the tradition will continue long after you are dust.
>>47762517
>anime
>nothing to do with WoD
I've got bad news.
Would activating a smoke detector be a Matter spell or a Forces spell?
>>47763097
Yes
So whatever happened to Ur-Shulgi in cWoD? And is he even mentioned in the current game?
Is this /Changeling/?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9wdfJKbHa0
>>47763097
Either one could do it.
Forces could use Compelling to trip the signal at 1 dot, while Matter might have to go 2 dots to make the radioactive bit inside do something it normally wouldn't but is technically possible (make it stop radiating for a bit).
>>47763291
I think Lore of the Clans mention him awake, or close to exit torpor. He still exist and is mentioned(or at least was).
>>47762153
He means that changing aspects is "not the right setting", so if you have VII be possessed by space aliens, you're doing it WRONG. That's not really something that happens often, though.
>>47762088
That's mostly bull and you know it. Storytimes aren't popular because no one reads them. People asking questions about characters and setting are much better than arguing about stupid bullshit about the mechanics. We've gone whole threads with barely a mention of dots or bonuses before Touhou showed up, but now that's all you people want to talk about. And "this isn't D&D" is a perfectly valid argument when you're *treating it* like D&D. The same thing would be true in a Fate thread when that game's Earthquake didn't spell out every little thing.
>>47763097
>>47763321
Or Fate to make it randomly mess up. I actually think Matter would be able to do it easier; they care about the smoke, not the heat.
>>47763319
Does the Wolf torment her, driving her half insane and dragging her back off to the realm of Arcadia where she must engage in contracts with the very concepts of the world to survive as she is drained like a wineskin as his Fey master sups on her emotions like a fine wine, treating her with both kindness and cruelty, and changeable as the wind?
If so?
Yes, that's very Changeling.
>>47762088
Just because a setting has ended doesn't mean you can't still talk about it, especially since cWoD ended quite abruptly.
Why not let people talk about their time of judgement games? Or whatever fate the characters endured in them?
>new God of War
>Kratos has fucked off to be a crusty old dad in Viking land
Whoch game is best for Norse stuff?
>>47766098
Scion/Exalted to be Kratos
Werewolf/Mage to deal with spirit-god-monsters
Riddle me this, /cofd/. Dark Eras makes it clear that belief in the supernatural was strong and commonplace all throughout history, even throughout the 1810s (the time of the Grimm Dark Era chapter). People simply accept the supernatural as a fact of life, and being a Hunter is a somewhat "legitimate" profession. The common man is redpilled.
Past the 1810s, belief in the supernatural suddenly dies down with no explanation and everyone is back to being bluepilled. Why? Is this the work of an enemyExarch?
>>47766360
The rise of Rationalism.
>>47766360
I imagine the Industrial Revolution did a fucking number on the supernatural. Dark Eras hints that Father Wolf waned in power after the shift to agriculture; I'm sure industrialization was a similar doozy.
Also, education and rationality became the new source of solace for people where religion previously held that role, and has no room for creatures or magic. You can blame the influence of the Abyss or something, but it's really just a shift in values.
Given that Scion 2e will have a Kickstarter, what woukd you like to see for stretch goals?
I know they've mentioned setting Shards, but I'd kill for historical eras.
>>47756344
Wraiths of Epoch. They're actually really fucking cool.
>>47766577
Rationalism would have never worked if there were real monsters everywhere.
>>47766360
It's the God-Machine getting to the point where it can use time-local humans and industries to create more sophisticated but delicate infrastructure - infrastructure more vulnerable to supernaturals and abundant hunters coming along and wrecking shit.
Correspondingly, God-Machine shifts humanity's praxis towards rationalism to quash competing supernatural shit down and keep it more manageable. Less overt monsters means less hunters, means less people fucking with it.
>>47766703
It's suprisingly easy to make people believe a comforting lie.
Especially if it's "there's nothing bigger in this world than you".
Even moreso if all the evidence for it is easy to see, and the evidence to the contrary likes its privacy.
>Argue for Beast in /wodg/ where everyone overexaggerates its flaws
>Argue against Beast on OPP forums, where everyone ignores its flaws
>>47766975
But the forum hates Beast.
>>47767029
Does it? I've been in the "Sell me on Beast" thread ever since TheStranjer was bitching about SJWs and getting banned. I made the mistake of pointing out some flaws and then the thread turned on me.
I pointed out that every method of Feeding by indulging your Hunger causes harm. I said it's "being a dick", which is a bit tonally dissonant with learning how to better teach people lessons (the main incentive for crossover). One of the authors jumped in to say I "lost" the argument.
Everyone keeps not-quite accusing me of trolling, arguing that I'm not trying to sell anyone on Beast, so I should leave the thread.
>>47767092
I even highlighted something I'd like to see in future supplements: Beasts feed though "shock". That's the moment that replenishes your Satiety.
I don't see why "shock" has to inherently involve harm, but even the Low Satiety examples are all about causing harm. One of them even measures the low bar by "if it makes a family cry".
But of course one of the writers jumped in to tell me I'm wrong and that Beasts don't need to be dicks or cause harm, that's totally misconstruing things!
>>47767100
>Beasts feed though "shock".
>Beasts feeding by jump scaring people on the street
>cover up by revealing a camera and going "IT'S JUST A PRANK BRO!"
>upload to YouTube anyway
>>47767092
ArcaneArts is a shit and is not to be trusted. They're an abrasive cunt in every tgread and are flagrantly wrong about Changeling.
Also they're a Mormon.
>>47766661
I will pay thousands if they let me make a Pnatheon.
>>47767205
Of original characters, or choosing a real one to add?
>>47767266
Real one.
Lovecraft or Abrahamic.
>>47767125
So Beasts use feeding strategies based around the types of people who get really popular on Youtube for no fucking reason.
>Shockers: Prank channels
>Leechers: "Reactionists" (They feed in the wake of other Supernaturals causing harm to people)
>Traditionalists: Lets Players. (Beasts who still go into peoples dreams)
And I have no idea for the other two, I'm thinking one of them will be based on Parody videos, but I'm not sure on the other one.
>>47767368
YoutubePoop
>>47767327
>Lovecraftian Pantheon
>after all these years, Outsider: the Calling finds new life not as an nWoD fansplat, but in Scion
Brings a tear to my eye.
>>47767410
It'd be cool as shit man
>>47767436
>Cthulhu has powers of the ocean and dreams
>Yog-Sothoth gives you fun spacetime dickery
>Shub-Niggurath is life and change
>Nyarlathotep is just a prick
>get to decide if you want to spread madness and destruction like your eldritch parents or use the powers of things that should not be to bring hope back to humanity
HYPE
>>47767400
Well my idea for Imitators (Parody Videos) is that they impersonate other Supernaturals in order to feed on peoples fear of them. However they only impersonate the "scary" Supernaturals like Vampires, Werewolves and Prometheans. as they do such a terrible job of being another Supernatural, this lures the sheep into a false sense of security. Though this can lead to some...interesting scenes if one of the genuine articles witnesses their actions.
>Ventrue meets an Imitator that specializes in the Kindred.
>>47767664
Forgot my picture
>>47767664
I made a Scarecrow Minister who frightened people away from vampire owned clubs. He had a Goblin Vow with Blood so he drank blood, he looked and acted like a Gangrel, and his Bugbear Mask was a cheesy Draculosfaratu mask.
>>47767400
How would you make that work? I was thinking of people who make Podcasts myself, with the Feeding (called Hivers) inspired by them being leaders of a select group of people or just people who do nice things for everyone in their area. to the point where they get a steady trickle of Satiety and a much larger Lair (the idea with Feedings is that they directly affect the way your Lair works/forms and how you recover Satiety.)
>>47767714
...I was talking about Beast meself, I'm not sure why you mentioned Changeling.
>>47767493
My planned character is a college age female that's been on the fast track success all of her life (because MIB/Illuminati have been strong arming her in to accelerated success cause obviously they're lovecraft cults) so they can sacrifice her because they think her body is a fleshy portal holding back Azathoth, when in REALITY she is just a Scion of his.
Hijinks happen, she gets a yellow shall and a flail that's a giant eyeball as birthrights; as well as a small squad of MIB
>>47767756
Can she "DOOT-DOOT!" people out of reality.
>>47767752
>Supernatural of one type who pretends to be a supernatural of another type
How might they be related?
>>47761533
For you.
>>47767819
Fair point.
>return to these threads after months of abscence
>still constantly reading Beast as Breast
Maybe the Dark Mother's tits are pretty big.
>>47763638
>We've gone whole threads with barely a mention of dots or bonuses before Touhou showed up, but now that's all you people want to talk about. And "this isn't D&D" is a perfectly valid argument when you're *treating it* like D&D.
Now that someone has brought up rules, it's easier to talk about them. This is good, because it's the only universal experience we can have with the game. There's a clear niche to be found here, and there's no real reason to fight it.
"You're treating it like D&D" is another empty attempt to shut down the conversation. Why shouldn't people treat it like the most popular game on the market? What special quality of CofD makes it so that you can't analyze (and over analyze, and misanalyze) the rules? Some of the best design comes from treating the game like a game.
>>47764206
I think people should, it's just that most of the time it'll be met with "cWoD is bad" or some other empty retort.
>>47767100
>Beasts don't need to be dicks or cause harm, that's totally misconstruing things!
I honestly cannot imagine a single way a Beast can feed without being a dick in some way. You might not end up harming someone but you gotta be a dick.
>>47767947
>This is good, because it's the only universal experience we can have with the game
Except there's no such thing as a universal experience, because no matter how they're written we'll all have our own interpretations of them or house rules.
>Why shouldn't people treat it like the most popular game on the market?
Because they're completely different games. No one's saying you can't analyze the rules. I'm saying that if you're going to do it, do it right. Don't flip your shit and have a conniption fit when the rules don't do what you want because you want them to be a thing that they're not trying to be. Also, I disagree. All of CofD's best mechanics don't come from treating it like a game, they come from treating it like a narrative. Unless "having mechanics" is your definition of game. I wouldn't call things like Touchstones or the Morality meters "game" aspects, though.
>>47767991
Only through Hungers. Family Dinner doesn't require being a dick. And, admittedly, you can do Prey by hunting animals, which is still a dick if you're just scaring them and not eating them.
There is also one example that's "convincing a small press publisher not to hire someone because of their inflammatory political beliefs". But maybe I'm just a dick for thinking that's okay.
>>47768055
Cry fucking more, Aspel.
I found this in the V20 ghouls book. Anime is now relevant to the World of Darkness!
>>47768055
>because no matter how they're written we'll all have our own interpretations of them
>Each die that shows an 8, 9, or 10 is a success. Normally, you
only need one success to achieve your goal. It’s always better to
get more successes, though, especially if you want to hurt someone,
since your successes add to your damage when attacking.
No, you dumbass. Good rules only have one interpretation, and I literately couldn't care less about your frantic efforts to fix a bad rule system.
>>47768073
>Everyone I don't like is Aspel.
Sure thing man.
>>47768106
>I post exactly like Aspel, using his exact arguments
>D-don't call me out, bro! S-stop it!
>>47768073
A smug anime girl is prettier and a better argument, anon.
Don't trouble yourself with typing.
>>47768112
I'm not even Aspel, I'm just another anon.
>>47768080
Anime was always relevant. Wasnt Hellsing recommended watching at one point in time?
>>47768492
There were also those foxgirl sisters in CtL that were kawaii as fuck.
>>47768519
wasnt there a fansplat of adding Kitsune as a Gangrel Bloodline?
>>47768535
That was pure Aspel wank.
Let's talk about Malkavian Pranks:
I the Malks pulling a prank on the City as a whole and the Tremere in particular, with some kind of tangential involvement for the players.
Did any of you have a storyline like this in your games? What happened and how did it turn out?
>>47768657
Killing the Prince prank [GONE WRONG] [GONE SEXUAL]
http://www.scp-wiki.net/scp-504
I bet the Exarchs were behind this
>>47767368
>>47767664
Are critics/judges (e.g. h3h3, GradeAUnderA, Retsupurae) high-Lair reactionists, or are they a principled fifth faction of YouTube Beasts who judge other supernaturals?
