>Previous Thread: >>47702084
>Pastebin:
http://pastebin.com/7sSgGVPH
http://www.mediafire.com/download/n7htcqyqk0y0acy/%5BWtF%5DThe_Pack.PDF
>Latest News
http://theonyxpath.com/each-project-is-a-snowflake-monday-meeting-notes/
>Question
What game has the best mechanics?
Since it got lost in the last thread, here it goes again,
2 questions about Demon.
1. Are Partial Transformations reflexive like full transformations?
2. Is the ability to spawn explosives with Eliminator Cannon an instant or reflexive action?
I got temp banned. I'll just follow it from then on when it expires. I will say I make a point to disregard rules that restrict me, but not everybody else. And if I'm in a position to, I retaliate when I'm punished for it. It isn't like bypassing a forum ban is difficult.
>>47725385
As someone getting into nWoD, what would you recommend as essential for a beginner Storyteller?
>>47725444
Don't know.
Sorry.
>Please have a Demon picture fitting for a dude with aura of corruption and possibly THE MAW.
>>47725453
Thats....not smart.
Don't act like a martyr later.
Beig a proud black/white/grey womyn/man/ocelot who dun need no rules and posting even though you were banned and admitting you are ban evading is not really .....endearing.
>best mechanics
nWoD 1e
>>47725456
Corebook, Armory and Armory Reloaded, Damnation City if you like dicking around with your settings (it's for Vampire but it works for any game, really). Mirrors once you're comfy with how everything works and want to fuck with the rules a bit.
I flat-out refuse to run without access to Armory. It's one of those things I would honestly class as a must-have for any GM
>>47725456
NWoD covered all the "blue books" and the game lines from Vampire the Requiem through Mummy the Curse. Demon, Beast, the various Chronicles and 2nd ed core books are the only books that have been updated to Chronicles of Darkness.
The way I understand it though New/Chronicles of Darkness has two books that differ quite a bit, the one that is literally named New World of Darkness as well as the one that is named Chronicles of Darkness.I might just be mistaken lol.
Though you can't go wrong with the material by Onyx Path. They put out top-notch genre transformative works that are second to none.
>>47725456
Core book, choice of splat and the first armoury book is the standard.
To me at least, you can play with the basic books as well.
>My favourite book is Inferno though.
serious talk though whats the deal with onyx path and the way they handle the licenses?
>>47725498
It's ... completely smart. Do note that I said "if I can get away with it." Fucking with people who mistreat you is entirely smart, if you can get away with it. And I can.
I don't think I should feel the slightest bit inclined to follow rules that restrict only certain groups. Either the rules apply to everybody, or the people who are being selectively targeted have license to be defiant. Full stop. If they can't successfully enforce their one-sided rules, that doesn't make them just hypocrites, it makes them incompetents, as well.
But all of this is moot anyway since it at least appears like they'll enforce the rules both ways.
So what's the least Storygamey WW/OP release?
>>47725625
Exactly, thats why I wrote my part.
As in, you were proven right and you decided to follow up still.
If its moot now I am happy for you.
Personally I have no need to argue this anyway.
Just wnated to help out.
Apparently you do not see this as a friendly gesture, but hey.
Have fun.
>>47725672
Eh, fair enough I suppose.
>>47725385
I tend to view both the old & new Storyteller games as more of a toolbox, using the parts i need for what i'm running atm, though its still flawed. As simple as 5 clans versus 13, even if in practice you only had half of that. Then of course there's two strongly opposing sides versus a sort of congealed whole. Once you get into minor options like bloodlines well the book has established these guys simply aren't the real players in the world.
Then of course there's how setting is itself a toolbox, or at least a base material to start crafting your story from.
And the difference between say a tabletop RPG and something like DF is that the latter can be done simply as a game in its own right. It didn't become as big as it did because people made their own Changeling Furry ranch or a working computer circuit, it became big because while that was out there maybe to lure you sure and will help it stick around in the longer term... you didn't have to go that big you could just have some simple fun for awhile then maybe move on to something else. Lots of games groove on that model
I would argue that no incarnation of the ST system can simply be played as a dice rolling boardgame (I dare say was founded on the premise of not being so) and thus being simply a toolbox isn't as helpful.
Anyway what the fuck do I know anymore? With the way Onyx has been shitting over its customer base lately, I wonder if there's anyone left that still cares about the game and not just lining their pockets.
>>47725601
1. Onyx Path pays Paradox to use licenses
2. They do things with them
S'about it.
>>47725444
Yes it should be a Reflexive Action sense that is the base action for transformations.
The other I believe is a Instant action. But I can't check that, my pdf with it got corrupted.
>>47725385
Yo OP or anyone who can answer my question for Strain vampires
I have been catching up on the episodes lately and I realized that I have never found an "evil vampire" so appealing before as character concept. Essentially I have been thinking on how one could make a character like that as Kindred in the context of WoD. For some reason Tzimisce sound like a great option due to their xenophobia, bizarre abilities and elitist viewpoints, but I am not really an expert on non-Camarilla clans.
What is your opinion? What would you use for such a character? [V20 only preferably]
path ideas would be great too, I've only played Humanity and Inner voice so I don't know much about others.
>>47725935
Tzimisce is pretty spot on target here.
No idea on the path though.
>>47725935
Well,what part about it do you find most appealing?
You could go about making a "Strain" Vampire in multiple ways.
There are multiple Clans to choose from, really:
Tzimisce for (part of) the power set, especially the body horror, and the aesthetics (old-world lord buried in the home soil)
Lasombra for the "Monster in the Shadows" part.
Nosferatu are ugly as well and can have strings that reach far and wide.
Or even a Ventrue for that sweet, sweet Domination...
Is Aspel still posting here or is it safe to come back?
>>47725625
Reminds me of when I used to get regularly banned from the WW forums, those were some good times
Is there anything like the Brujah in VtR? How about True Brujah?
>>47726263
lel, what'd you get b& for? story time and usernames
>>47725456
Chronicles of Darkness core Rulebook. That's about it.
>>47725535
Really? Armoury, or both? The first book didn't really have anything for me. Reloaded is great, and offers a lot of Hacks and fighting styles, but it also never felt super *essential* to me.
I don't agree with you that 1e was great (I think that while it still has problems, and apparently none of us realized guns don't have defense penalties in melee unless they're large, 2e fixed every problem I had) but if I had to suggest one supplement that everyone should read, it would be Hunter: the Vigil's corebook.
If you learn it's lessons, it basically becomes a Storyteller's Guide for the rest of the game. Playing a Mage game but want to use vampire antagonists? No need to use Vampire, just think about what template abilities are associated with "being dead" and give them a few Rotes that feel vampirey.
>>47725782
>With the way Onyx has been shitting over its customer base lately, I wonder if there's anyone left that still cares about the game and not just lining their pockets.
>mfw people think this
Lemme guess, you think having tranny characters and The Gays is shitting on their customer base?
>>47726221
If you're too much of a little bitch, it's never safe to come to 4chan
>>47725782
Best to just accept that OP has its share of SJWs that shit things up where they may. There's still a host of good writers that keep out of the shitslinging & freelancers under contract.
As to the latter, as I have previously posted in other WoD threads, that I prever VtM over VtR.
I find the clans and disciplines in VtR a bit too bland for my taste (and people who play RPGs around where I live dont play VtR or NWoD so I can't play even if I wanted to, though I am absolutely in love with Beast and Demon in NWOD) yet saying that VtR has no merits and is outright worse than VtM is utter bullshit.
Worst case, streamlined rules and mechanics makes VtR much more friendly to those who switch from other RPGs. I think your old group is being stubborn for nostalgia's sake.
In my opinion if your new group is happy with Requiem and you no longer wish to spend any more money stick with Requiem (especially if its second edition).
If I were you, I would buy masquarade V20 (or DA20, I prefer using new rules for some disciplines from D20, merit flaws, and let my starting characters with 4 discipline dots) some time in the future, play a few games with V20/DA20 and let my new gaming group decide what to play.
I mean there is even a conversion guide/book for OWoD to NWoD and vice-versa, so if they like OWoD clans for example but NWoD rules, you can do a VtR chronicle with clans from VtM.
Your best bet is probably to avoid the official forums, as a majority of mods are also Big Purple lawncrappers, and adhere to the same batshit political leanings that /v/'s had to deal with the past few years on the Game Site side of things. If you're interested in just how deep their rabbit hole of bullshit goes, look up The Outrage Brigade, as the same sorts that were causing shit over videogames are also infesting tabletop with their bullshit (Though that White Male RPG Gamer Terrorist crap is a laugh)
>>47726630
Why are you replying to yourself?
>Best to just accept that OP has its share of SJWs that shit things up where they may.
White Wolf literally wrote a book where a large portion of the "plot" was that it was bad that THEIR OWN ARBITRARY SETTING RULES were so unfair to some gay werewolves. It basically said that homophobia is exists because of Pentex and the Wyrm and that if you aren't on board with the gays, you're literally evil.
>Your best bet is probably to avoid the official forums, as a majority of mods are also Big Purple lawncrappers, and adhere to the same batshit political leanings that /v/'s had to deal with the past few years on the Game Site side of things. If you're interested in just how deep their rabbit hole of bullshit goes, look up The Outrage Brigade, as the same sorts that were causing shit over videogames are also infesting tabletop with their bullshit (Though that White Male RPG Gamer Terrorist crap is a laugh)
Jesus Christ why can't the alt-right stay out of my elfgames?
>>47726630
>The Outrage Brigade
What's that? There's no wikipedia entry on that.
>>47726705
Cause it's the alt-right's turn to rule the conservative movement and they have their pet passions. It's going to be about 20-30 years of this.
>>47725782
There's a lot of people with very heavily rose-tinted glasses with regard to Masquerade. It made a splash when it came out, because there wasn't really much else like it around. It's all down to personal preference. I really enjoy the nWoD books over oWoD but I'll happily play both.
I don't get why so many people are posting about Onyx Path though. Aren't they basically another WW imprint like Arthaus?
>>47726630
The thing is though, Video Games & Politics don't mix well, much like Tabletop RPGs & Politics in the 80s. The only difference is it was the batshit politicos of the Right trying to exert control over RPGs in the 80s, which failed. Just as the batshit politicos of the Left & their useful idiots that are failing here in the 10s
>>47726837
>failing
idk senpai, they've been pretty successful at infiltrating tabletop communities & publishers, as well as conventions over the past decade.
>>47725444
The Eliminators launching, and by extension, production of explosives is an instant action. Though you may be able to do other things on your turn with supernatural assistance factored in since it doesn't qualify as a spellcasting action equivalent.
>>47725385
sup senpai, tbhI much prefer the mechanics of Requiem, but I like the flavor of Masquerade better. On the other hand, you can generally approximate most Requiem-style characters with Masquerade. It's imperfect, but possible.
The whole "Masquerade is infinitely better" baka thing kind of smacks of that hipster "before it was cool" vibe, IMO. Which isn't to say that the complaints against Requiem aren't valid, but that Masquerade isn't the beacon of perfection some cucks act like it is.
>>47726758
The alt-right doesn't automatically get to have a turn. This isn't the swing set.
>>47726837
>X & Politics don't mix well
This is patently untrue.
https://youtu.be/7_tdztHiyiE
>>47726864
They didn't infiltrate. They've been here the whole time. Masquerade was criticized for using "she", and was called a game for chicks because of it. In the 90s, so not "the past decade". Even ten years ago this very board was filled with openly queer gamers loudly shitting on anyone who'd complain about them.Also camwhoring and posting hentai. It was a golden age.
>>47726864
That's part of it, but don't forget DARVO.
>>47726452
I find Armory super essential because frankly, the equipment list in either corebook is just plain shit. And it allows for all manner of insane plans courtesy of the players: weakening a vampire by slipping his personal feeding pool blood-thinning drugs, for instance, or what it takes for their big bad Daeva to spin-cock a lever-action just like Arnie before feeding the Prince some dragonsbreath.
And 2e may have fixed things, but it broke far more. Fuck Beats, fuck how the combat system has been just plain shat on by someone who didn't understand why things were the way they were.
The only good thing in there was the expanded equipment section.
>>47726781
Onyx Path finally dropped the facade
Specifically, they've stopped pretending the "Chronicle" books don't represent a 2nd edition of NWoD.
To be fair, it wasn't their choice to go the Chronicle route in the first place, it was CCP's - but CCP seems to have been convinced. Blood and Smoke will get "cosmetic changes" to turn it into Vampire: the Requiem 2nd Edition (redesigned cover is a no-brainer, I'm guessing some art tweaks and a find-and-replace to turn "Blood and Smoke" into "Vampire: the Requiem 2nd Edition" throughout the text would be the other change), WoD 2nd Edition will be the core WoD book with the God-Machine rules update properly incorporated (though I have both the original and the update, I'll probably pick this up just to avoid a nightmare of cross-referencing), and the upcoming "Chronicle" books for Werewolf and Mage are now just going to be WtF 2E and M:tAw 2E.
For those not familiar with White Wolf products or history, could anyone summarize what recent changes to it are being called SJW influenced?
>>47727253
They change npc's gender in Dark Ages 20v and other characteristics. Not a lot of long term fans enjoyed that.
In Mage 20v the orders got options to "update" the problematic orders. Which again angered some fans.
Then there is a promise of when Vampire: The Masquerade will make dramatic changes to the setting. One the end of days and the reawakening of Cain (aka the very creator and destroyer of all vampire kind) wasn't such a big deal. This is with the fact that for decades it is considered a known fact that if Cain wakes up the world would end. So you can imagine how people feel about this blue balls event that the new owners made. Again people are not happy. More importantly some clans might be "updated", or remove due to their problematic nature. That makes people worry that World of Darkness might become a new Marvel. As in the video game department will go well, but the rpg section goes the way of Angelia Queen of Hel. I am just saying clinch your ass really hard cause bad things are coming, but the video games would be okay as they are not sacrifing their main bacon.
This does not even touch upon how the current developers generally view people. Especially those that disagree with them. Look up into David A. Hill's G+ if you want proof. If that is not enough try asking people in this site about the big purple for many a developer in Onyx Path is also a moderator in that site. Let me say that they are ban happy and have very strong biased. It would be a short time if they found out you disagree with them. A very short time.
>>47727292
Oh shit I forgot. In one of their products called Beast: The Primordial rough draft pretty much made gamergate as a fedora wearing antagonist that needs to be killed without out any sympathy. In fact they pretty much demonized heroes while the monsters are special snowflakes that are beloved by all other monster splats. This blew up in their faces as the heroes were heroic. The monsters as sick fucks that would choke a kid they stalked. Not to mention the beloved by all is cringe worthy. So yes they literally wrote a rpg that did shove social justice warrior shit down people's throats.
>>47726322
It was more than a decade ago now so I can't remember usernames but it was pretty much for the same kinds of things, but also for trolling furry WtA players.
I also had a Wraith character I used in the open RP that was named something like Chaim Goldstein. I wanna say Wraith because I got the idea from the Shoah book, but he might of been a Vamp or Mage now that I think about it since IIRC V/W/M might've been the only splats allowed. He was basically equal parts Woody Allen & Filbert, had a creepy obsession with lolis and of course had 4-5 dots in Usury. I actually got away with that one for quite a while before anyone caught on.
>>47727203
>Specifically, they've stopped pretending the "Chronicle" books don't represent a 2nd edition of NWoD.
Why do people keep acting like this was some sketchy trick? Onyx Path pretty much outright said "these are second editions but we can't call them second editions". Yes, GMC says "this isn't a second edition", but that's because it was when THEY COULDN'T MAKE A SECOND EDITION.
>Blood and Smoke will get "cosmetic changes" to turn it into Vampire: the Requiem 2nd Edition
Are you posting some copypasta and attaching a baity image to it or something? That happened like... a year ago.
>>47727253
>It's becoming increasingly apparent that people who are not white, cisgender, male, heterosexual, or American also play roleplaying games, and they are acknowledged as existing in a way that isn't just a stereotypical group of vampires
Basically, that. There's maybe one transgender or genderqueer character each book, and two or three casual uses of male names having husbands or female names having wives. Which, all jokes about vampires aside, the gays are probably a pretty large group of fans.
>>47727292
>They change npc's gender in Dark Ages 20v and other characteristics. Not a lot of long term fans enjoyed that.
Sascha Vykos has always been trans. Understanding of trans people just happened to change since then. They also updated the Malkavian to be less cheesy stereotype.
>In Mage 20v the orders got options to "update" the problematic orders. Which again angered some fans.
Oh no, a group that has women might not call itself a "Brotherhood".
I don't think these things "angered long term fans". If they were long term fans, they likely wouldn't be bothered by such things, considering the company's track record.
So, i have finally gotten around to starting reading my physical copy of Lore of the Clans. I really liked it for the most part i liked it. The only part i absolutely disliked is the Ravnos chapter.
It seems to me that the new direction they have taken with the Clan doesn't really work.
Not that the Trickster-Gypsies of the old editions where that great, but at least the Powerset and their background meshed.
Now it's all Svadharma this, Brahmin that. While the V20 Corebook talks about relatively loose and tenuous connections with India LotC throws everything into it.
An other thing that bugs me is that there seems to be no subtext in the chapter.
While in many other chapter the reader can "see through" the writing Characters shit, or understands him on a "human level", i don't see anything like this.
Re-imagings are all well and good, but at least somehow include the original and don't get repetitive. We don't need the third clan (fourth if you include the Salubri from VDA20) who has castes, especially if its "Fighting Caste, Book Caste and People-Person Caste" (at least they got something different with the "scrub" caste, but it's little consolation imo).
Plus, the whole emphasis on the clan structure makes me ask why they didn't join the sects when they formed.
There are far more unpredictable and dangerous Clans under the banner of the Camarilla (Malk and Brujah), Clans with the same drive for freedom (Gangrel), Clans with just as nebulous Goals (Tremere) and Clans with at least as much bad blood between them as between Ravnos and Gangrel (Tremere vs Gangrel and Nossis).
Anyway, do any of you see it the same way or are there different opinions on it?
>>47727396
I felt that way about Werewolf. I was really big into W:tA, but kind if fell away from gaming for a few years. Fast forward and I run across W:tF in a Barnes and Noble and picked it up enthusiastically, not even realizing that in my absence, oWoD had ended.
I knew something was wrong when I read about evil rat and spider spirits, and nothing about the Wyrm. When I finally realized that it wasn't the game that I loved, I threw the book aside in a fit. Figuratively speaking.
I gave it another read much later, allowing myself to approach it on its own level, and found it to be a good game with some really cool aspects. It wasn't my old Apocalypse, but still good in its own right.
I was never that big on Vampire, but I came around with Requiem the same way that I did with Forsaken. oWoD and nWoD products deliver very different experiences and need to be approached on their own levels. Comparing them to their "predecessors" is unfair. Apples and oranges.
Any Promethean / Qashmal mechanics out yet?
>>47727396
>Plus, the whole emphasis on the clan structure makes me ask why they didn't join the sects when they formed.
"Clan determines sect" is one of the stupidest things about oWoD.
>>47727466
If you thought Forsaken was a good game, you should check out Forsaken 2e. It fixes a lot, and makes Werewolves actually terrifying. And terrifying to be.
Also, did you quote the wrong comment? He's talking about the 20th Anniversary interpretation of Ravnos.
>>47727567
If they were, we would have told you last time you asked. Although, actually, yeah, there are.
http://theonyxpath.com/category/worlds/chroniclesofdarkness/prometheanthecreated/
http://theonyxpath.com/prometheantransmutations/
WW/OP have always been SJWs. The whole thing about using >she pronouns (but occassionally slipping into >he anyways) has been around since first ed Vampire. Even back then, they were obvious white knight neckbeards trying to win points with feminist Wiccan chics.
>>47727697
Rocky Horror Picture Show would make a great WoD adventure
>>47727697
yeah, except you forget many of the early writers WERE feminist wiccan chicks.
If anything, WW/OP have been trying to cater beyond their political spectrum, into video game bros and other subcultures that should probably just drop dead.
Do any of the oWoD/CoD books give simple rules for drawing "mooks", unimportant fodder NPCs used for combat scenes and what not?
How do you guys create antagonists of an appropriate challenge? I realize this is a kind of D&D concept, but I worry that a combat encounter might be too hard/too easy.
Can someone tell me if Roll20 has Mage 2e sheets/system for rolls?
>>47725385
>What game has the best mechanics?
that depends entirely on what you want from those mechanics.
>>47727816
It doesn't
Mage 2e hasn't been 'out' long enough, and the fucks who did the official nwod sheet only put in a 2e sheet for core and vtr.
>>47727697
>(but occassionally slipping into >he anyways)
They didn't write the whole book as if the only audience was chicks. They flipped around.
>>47727767
Bingo.
I'm pretty sure the guy who wrote Ascension is like Alan Moore.
>>47727803
Core 1e suggests just giving them 4hp. GMC suggests Down and Dirty combat, where mook fights are just a Contested roll. Chronicles of Darkness core has suggestions for simple monsters that can also be used for people. It also might have rules for mooks, but I'm too lazy to check.
>>47727868
Fuck. Thanks, anon.
>>47727767
>many
There were like three regular women writers for early WW stuff and arguably the most SJW-ey of the classic splats (WtA) was a total sausagefest.
It's more that recently SJWism has become the status quo so they can't really frame it in cool anti-establishment counterculture anymore
>>47727760
Frank N Furter is clearly a Daeva in the Ordo Dracul with some, shall we say, unique tastes.
>>47728030
Tzimisce fleshcrafter with an aryan adonis fetish obv
>>47728030
>>47728076
>Not a Whipping Boy
>>47728076
I was thinking of CofD, but your idea works just fine. So does a Macellarius created Mandagora.
>"feed me."
>"Does it have to be human?"
>"Feed Me!"
>"Does it have to be mine!?"
>"FEED MEEEE!"
>"WHERE AM I SUPPOSED TO GET IT!?"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ea5jKFGgUw
>>47728148
>You now want to run a CofD or WoD game wherein musical numbers are a common thing.
>>47728171
Yes I do actually.
>>47727396
>>47727466
Okay, maybe you replied to the wrong post, maybe you misunderstood me, but anyway interesting perspective, but not really what i meant.
I have to admit my post is kinda rambly and badly written, i didn't get my point across well. let me try again:
My main problem with it is that the narrative voice in the Chapter is non-existent or just bad.
This would have solved most my other grippes.
By (more directly) framing this as a tale told by an (Indian) Brahmin [the religious caste], a wise but ultimately antiquated and zealous Elder, much could have been solved:
It would explain the drastic shift in perspective from the established.
It would explain why there are not even three Paragraphs dedicated to Rroma.
It could have been an avenue to talk about the "Cheap Trick" Ravnos, chastising them.
It would have offered the opportunity to get a better understanding of how "fulfilling ones karmic Duty" and "Illusionist Vampires who can talk to Animals" fit together
It could have been a way to make it simply more interesting.
In the Chapter are lots of good ideas, but no follow through on them.
Honestly, it feels a bit rushed and badly edited in so far that the editor should have said "I like the ideas, but scrap the writing and start again!".
Just to give some bits out of the book where the narrative voice is showing:
[Tremere talking about the Formation of the Sabbat]
>Vampires quietly sunk into the shadows, and the
Inquisition turned on the Anarchs. Sadly, they responded
by forming the Sabbat (no doubt at Goratrix’s behest), but
frankly we couldn’t deal with everything, so we had to let
that one pass.
[Toreador talking about the origin of their Clan Curse]
>The only one who remained
uncursed was Arikel [...] for she
alone had refrained from the slaughter. [...]With her, she
took Caine’s blessing: that no matter how long she stayed
on our side of the grave, she would never lose the human
taste for beauty.
>>47728171
>Ventrue Bloodline called the Malones.
I can dig.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pY-D5Hkd86I
>>47728381
the idea I had with the Malones is that they have dropped Animalism for Obfuscate and taken Celerity as a fourth Discipline. With a Devotion that lets them use these to hide anything on their person (SURPRISE TOMMY GUN!)
So, Beasts are all "we're the ancient and original monsters" and they teach spooky lessons?
And their incentive for Crossover is "we're out of touch, and need to learn how to be hip with today's kids, so we've got to ask our younger cousins for advice on teaching lessons!"
So basically... Goofy is a Beast?
>Vampire: God! You keep getting in the way! I don't care if he was Belial's Brood, I didn't mean to go kill them in the middle of a mall!
>Beast:Gorsh, Max, I just wanted your friends to think I was cool...
>>47728171
>Musicals in CofD
>Slashers
https://youtu.be/9He9WlFDXqw
https://youtu.be/g5O9yLhEuTs
>Tempter/Saboteur sings his plan
https://youtu.be/6AotSwDs4aA
>>47728826
>So basically... Goofy is a Beast?
You tell me.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E1-YL9S53bk
jesus, these threads have gotten noticeably worse in the last week or two.
What caused all these uberfaggots to come out of the woodworks?
>>47728932
Magefags are worstfags
>>47728956
This is worse than faggot-kun
>Beast Chronicle that's all about the Brood going to different places to interior decorate their Chambers
>IKEA arguments ensue
I want to run a cofd campaign but I don't know what the players would do in it. What do Vampires generally do?
>>47729312
Act smug and then bitch about others acting smug.
It's being a high school girl whee everyone else is a high school girl and you're all constantly on your periods
>>47729312
The Basics are:
-find a place in the city to feed regularily and without issue
-Deal with the fucked up politics of Vampire Society and try not to step on the toes of things more powerful
-Try and figure out how to reconcile their past lives with their new monstrous nature.
Then there's the World of Darkness standard:
-investigate weird shit going on.
>>47729312
Play the core game.
>>47729390
>>47729394
So for what reasons could 4-5 vampires decide to gather into a group, why would they stay that way, and what would they be doing together? They way the rulebook is written it feels more like a singleplayer game than something you play with a party. Are there any examples?
>>47729524
This is true, it's set up more as a personal story.
That being said, I'll do my best to answer to answer your questions in regards to groups:
>So for what reasons could 4-5 vampires decide to gather into a group?
You're a newly formed vampire, just lost the ties to your old life and you're dumped in a deep dark pond full of sharks and you're the little guppy who only knows the bare minimum.
You're going to need friends, to protect your turf, to watch your back, to back you up.
Why stay togheter, because once you conquer a piece of street or a piece of property and claim it as 'yours' or your groups, it's easier to keep worknig togheter than to split it up. There's strength in numbers and those sharks will stay just as mean as they were before.
What would they be doing together is that they'll soon be a clique, you know that when you talk to Dustbin Joe the rest of the Southside dumb vampires will know what you said and if they don't like it Stella "Starstruck", named for her penchant to hit you with a baseball bat until you see stars, will come round to remedy your loose tongue. You're a gang, you have territory, you have standing towards other gangs (other vampires). Sure some vampires are powerful enough to hold territory, to make an unliving on their own but not neonate vampires. They help each other to cope with their new unlives and rise to the top. Then backstab each other.
Think of your coterie (group) as an adventuring party or the scooby gang or a political powerpack or a gang. Depending on where your interests lie, that's what they do together. They're the guys that have got the lighter when you need to burn the body of your neighbour in life who spotted you in the dark and wouldn't leave well enough alone and they expect the same from you.
>>47728932
Aspel bringing out an old grudge against 2hu.
>>47729856
Claiming territory in what way?
>>47730008
Aren't half our shitfests due to Aspel having a grudge against someone, or just ideas he doesn't agree with?
>>47730212
vampires need to feed, too many vampires in one place and you draw attention to yourself. Because of this, other vampires will try to kill you or run you out of town at least.
>>47730265Is Asepl a fucking boogyman? Or a generic insult? Or a person? If the last, how the hell do you tell if it's him? Does he bitch constantly in a specific way or something?
>>47730423
Aspel is a well known person here that doesn't namefag but is VERY apparent who he is. He's the 'trans' SJW that bitches about stuff nonstop.
>>47727767
>video game bros and other subcultures that should probably just drop dead.
Your tolerance is showing.
>>47730008
isn't 2hu just as much of an omega faggot lord? like look at the shit he posts
faggot-kun sucks too
>>47730690
Bar his occasionally semi-loose interpretation of abilities, and any dislike people might have for Touhou, he's really just an autistic mathfag.
But those have their uses.
>>47730721
his high autism makes him incapable of understanding how the game is played, so he's not actually that useful
arguing for days like he does is just idiotic
>>47730423
Aspel's a regular who likes to argue as much as 2hu does about their pet passions. They will battle on the fields of Nerd Megiddo, as the fire and blood crashes around us, in the time of the Reckoning.
>>47725456
>>47725456
I think the ones I got the most use out of were:
World of Darkness (core)
Antagonists (the zombie creation kit is wonderful)
Armory Reloaded
Reliquary
13th Precinct
All the Night Horrors books
All of those are good for any splat you play; otherwise, it depends on the splat you're playing.
>>47725782
I think a lot of people have different experiences. I have a lot of experience with both NWoD and OWoD, and there's a LOT of players of OWoD locally who are like 'DEVIATION FROM THE PLOT MAKES ME SICK' and such, particularly when they get manchildy over things that you do that aren't what THEY would have done.
But I have friends elsewise that was never a problem for. So YMMV in general.
>>47726275
What aspect of the Brujah do you want?
All physical powerhouses are the Daeva, with splashes of Brujah/Toreador combined.
The biker thing is the Bruja bloodline of the Gangrel, IIRC founded by a spanish biker. They get Vigor in addition to the Gangrel powers.
If you want 'RAH RAH FIGHT THE POWAAA' you want the Carthian Movement, which is a covenant about untried forms of Kindred government; they have the Anarch Movement/Brujah-type combo stuff.
Nothing I can think of is the 'no emotions scholars' of the True Brujah though.
>>47727803
There's a couple of rules I use, but the one I've found that works the most is:
Extras
Unimportant NPCs, Extras do not require a full character sheet. Extras are built on a rating 1 to 5.
Health: Equal to Level
Pool: Level + 3
For each 'dot' an extra has, give them a Skill (or in the case of powers, a Discipline or other power). When using pools that require those skills, they gain a +3 to the test pool; if they have a power specialization, they have their rank in levels of that powe. So a Rank 3 guy firing a gun, with a Firearms specialization, has 9 dice. This same Extra with say, Dominate, has 3 levels of Dominate and 3 health.I ignore equipment bonuses on extras as well.
Can anyone share v20 Guide to Black Hand?
>>47731252
It has been two threads anon, give up all hope.
>>47731252
http://www.4shared.com/office/aElaBMXiba/V20_The_Black_Hand_A_Guide_to_.html
>>47731334
>>47731386
I haven't checked the link, but if that's legit that's fucking amazing timing.
>>47731581
It's legit. I was surprised too. Nice book so far, the first one was dreadful, absolutely shit.
>tfw your favorite Compacts are niche as hell and probably won't get put into Hunter 2e
>they'll never get repinted or referenced again
kill me
>>47731599
>>47731252
Persistence, it's an amazing thing. Shine on you crazy anon.
>>47731386
Since when the Baali are part of the Tal’Mahe’Ra? Or is this new?
>>47731628
I just have good google-fu, apparently.
>>47731623
do you ever have anything useful to say, atamajakki?
>>47731772
Not really. These threads have been pretty bad lately and I've been in a Shadowrun kick anyway.
You'll hear more out of me when I'm the only person that reads the Mummy Eras in the Companion.
>>47731805
I will also be reading it! And yeah, these threads have been kind of awful lately, hopefully they will improve soon.
>>47732112
Scion has me really interested, too, but we won't hear any more until Gen Con or the September kickstarter.
I really wish I had a group to do some Dark Eras stuff with. That Aztec one is fantastic and has gotten so little love.
>>47732145
I just hope Scion doesn't run into the same issue it did with Epic Attributes. One of the GMs I play with first ever RPG was Scion, and he has been pushing around the idea or putting something together for it. After looking at the rules for a bit, I decided to talk him into waiting for the new edition because of how wacky some of that shit was, and hopefully they have learned from those mistakes.
>>47731035
I'll argue about my pet passions, but I'm not going to repeatedly misinterpret shit even when the devs tell me I'm being ridiculous. Also, I will slay the sun and usher in an age of superstition and he sword.
>>47726275
"Biker vampire" isn't a thing that you need a stereotype for. That said, there actually is a rowdy biker Bruja Bloodline. I think they're Gangrel.
>>47731623
What are they and why does it matter? It's not like you need an update for a Compact. Their info doesn't require a lot of mechanics.
>>47732145
I wanna run that Aztec setting so bad, you don't even know.
>>47732482
You'll argue about literally anything.
>>47732276
Neall has been very honest about the various shortcomings of 1e, which I never played. It's very exciting stuff; I'm a huge mythology nerd, and it'll be nice to have a game where I'm not constantly reminding people that it's supposed to be horror.
>>47732482
It would just be nice to get extra fluff for them. Network Zero and the Malleus Malfeicarum get new material with every Hunter book, while Habibti Ma will probably be forgotten and DavidH had to fight to even mention VASCU in his Beast material.
>>47732524
Aspel is one of the most absolute on their stances. Everyone here (except OPP writers) is all a group of fools waiting to be enlightened by Aspel's glorious gospel brought down high from the glorious OPP itself.
If anyone so much as says anything Aspel doesn't agree with, it his OPP-given duty to correct it.
(mage 2e) Can I use Forces 2~3 to create a sound of nowhere? Like, the sound of a gun being fired, or the sound of an explosion...
>>47732685
I read the first sentence as serious, then lost it laughing. 10/10 anon.
>>47732706
You could probably weave a sound from ambient noise, but you couldn't create it out of nowhere.
>>47732706
You can ampliy sound and change its tone with Forces 2.
With Forces 3 and Weaving, I'd certainly say you could change a sound into another one. Say click your fingers, and shout a word, and use your Magic to weave it into a louder sound of a completely different nature.
>>47732738
>>47732756
Hmm I see. Thanks guys.
>>47732685
I love how pointing out Touhou is making ridiculous claims backed up by a sketchy interpretation of RAW is sucking developer cock and worshiping the company.
>>47732680
>DavidH had to fight to even mention VASCU in his Beast material.
Wait what? If Beast's supposed to be about the crossover, why not mention it?
>>47732922
It's not Touhou's sketchy math. It's how Aspel's argumentative as fuck.
You refuse to allow anyone to discuss any issues with a game anyway, and if someone has an actual issue unlike 2hufags ramblings, you still use the rule zero fallacy.
Also he thinks anyone not instantly sucking up to a Dev is treating them with complete disrespect.
Add in the overt and clear sucking up he does in his clear attempt to become a freelancer for OPP (it's so fucking obvious that it's painful), and you have someone who's a clear and empty sycophant arguing with someone who has such obvious wonky math that only a sycophant would fucking attempt to discredit.
Also his complete autistic shitfits when people talk about mechanics instead of fluff is so fucking laughable that it's hilarious.
>>47732680
>>47732991
Probably because they don't want to mention things outside of the corebooks. Also, VASCU is pretty much a shoe-in for being part of THE SLASHER CHRONICLE.
Habibti Ma isn't exactly the kind of thing that needs new material. They're a great Compact idea, but they're barely even Hunters so much as Hunter-adjacent.
>>47733026
Aspel doesn't read any of the books. He just used the subnet like the wod bible for years. Now that it's gone his knowledge base for crunch is zero.
Beast is just generally a giant mess both thematically and ruleswise. It's best left forgotten.
All the 2e content - Vampire, Werewolf, Mage, Demon - is great, except for Beast, which is shit.
I'm a little bit suspicious of Changeling 2e though, since it seems to focus a little bit TOO hard on "you're an ABUSE survivor", instead of "you're a SURVIVOR" and focusing on the new cool stuff in your life.
>>47733165
That's what Changeling /is/. You might as well complain that Wraith is too much about depression.
>>47733026
>You refuse to allow anyone to discuss any issues with a game anyway
No I don't. And not only were Touhou's ramblings working on sketchy as fuck logic that better people cared to shoot down on his own level, they were pointless. Touhou was also literally talking down to the developer. For fucks sake, don't you people remember when you constantly accused me of having a hate-on for Hill? Calling out Ads for being an annoying fucker who can never actually play the game because he repeatedly gets shot down for doing this shit is not sucking up to the developers.
>such obvious wonky math that only a sycophant would fucking attempt to discredit.
I get the feeling that you didn't actually pay attention to or understand what Touhou was saying, you just decided that he must be right because he talked so eloquently. A lot of what he said was "you have to actually try to break the game" level stuff, and I'll admit, that was my main argument for why it didn't matter. But he also went into sketchy territory like "skill roll is not defined, so I'll use the broadest interpretation possible". He argued that since *the* condition being resolved ends a spell early, clearly if you have *multiple* conditions, that doesn't count. Go look for the "exceptional luck is broken" thread. There's long posts pointing out the fallacy of his logic, even going by RAW.
>>47733061
Every time someone makes this claim, I assume they're butthurt that I pointed out they were wrong about something in the past. Since, you know, I've been able to cite from the book repeatedly.
>>47733165
Changeling 1e had more of a focus on your abuse in your Durance, and many people just languished in that with their characters, ignoring the fact they'd actually escaped and had a chance to move on with their life.
In 2e that's more in focus, as your Seeming is now literally a manifestation of how you escaped Arcadia, giving you benefits so long as you act in concert with that mentality through which you seized your freedom.
Sure you can wallow in your wounds like some pathetic wretch, but that's being diengenous to your character, and the fact that he actually ESCAPED.
>>47733245
>I get the feeling that you didn't actually pay attention to or understand what Touhou was saying, you just decided that he must be right because he talked so eloquently
>such obvious wonky math
You didn't read the fucking comment at all it seems. Hell, the person is saying touhoufags math is wonky.
You're being argumentative for the sake of being argumentative. You're proving his point RIGHT.
>>47733326
>You refuse to allow anyone to discuss any issues with the game
>I mean, even though those issues were stupid
Gee, I wonder why anyone would have a problem with someone talking about stupid issues. Is it because the issues were stupid and they weren't real issues, just someone trying to stir up shit without actually having a valid point? No, it's clearly because anyone who doesn't want to hear these discussions is sucking dev dick and holds the game up on a pedestal!
What's the central metaphor in Promethean?
I've heard arguments for being transgender and being autistic.
>>47733480
Birth/childhood.
>>47733480
Learning to be another person.
It's your puberty, being trans, going through boot camp, and anything else that puts you through such stress of learning by fire, autism included (but not very well represented, an autistic person doesn't graduate into being normal.)
>>47733264
>he ESCAPED
>"he"
Typical
>>47733480
I can see being transgender, but I've always felt that it's about being human. Like, just flat out "this is a metaphor for humanity". Which is essentially what real life historical Alchemy was all about. "This will give me the meaning of it all".
>>47733495
I don't understand that reading at all. Although I guess parenthood is a thing that is often said to be a requirement.
>>47733539
wut
>>47733561
what makes a man?
A vampire knows, even if hes lost it.
A werewolf knows even if half it isn't there.
A changeling knows and misses it.
A mage thinks he knows and this blinds him to his hubris.
A Promethean doesn't and wants to find out.
>>47733480
Understanding humanity.
Most metaphors are inaccurate as being a Promethean means there is LITERALLY something wrong with you on a fundamental level, which you need to fix. You can't close your eyes to the truth and scream it away, or comfort yourself with the lies of people who tell you you're perfect just the way you are.
You were born broken. Time to fix it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rMfZyfD4U8U
>>47733539
Oh please.
>>47733480
I'm definitely biased, but it screams queer/transgender to me. You're misunderstood, hated and rejected for what you are, and have to build a new identity for yourself from scratch, often with many pitfalls and heartbreaks along the way. It doesn't hurt how core body dysphoria is to the game; your body literally is not your own.
>>47733777
Of the many things I'm infamous for is playing a transgender Promethean. I don't think I ever made the connection between being trans and being a Promethean until someone brought it up in these threads.
I don't really think there's a lot of body dysphoria in Promethean. "Your body is not your own" isn't something I feel comes up a lot, although I could see a Promethean approaching the Great Work from a body mod culture outlook. It's more soul dysphoria. Plus, it's a really imperfect metaphor. A sort of "I don't deal with the same stuff, but I get it" sort of thing. When you're trans, the hate and rejection comes from trying to be what you are, while in Promethean it comes from not being human. You get less hate and rejection (but self-loathing) if you're closeted. Promethean can also be read as a metaphor that passing or fitting in is better. Not just passing in the transgender way, but passing in the gay way. I mean, if you choose to go with a surface level interpretation (as many of my "why do I have to want to be human?" friends do), then Promethean is a game about being different, being hated for it, and then finally joining the rest of the world and becoming "normal".
Now, I don't think Transmethean is an intentional metaphor, or a fitting one, but I will provide a counterargument to that, because it's a counterargument to the "I don't want to be a normie" hate that Promethean gets. Becoming human isn't about fitting in. My queer little crossdressing faggot of a Promethean wasn't more or less human for wearing skirts and having a dick. You don't have to go through gay conversion therapy to stop being a Promethean. You do, however, have to come to terms with whatever your chosen metaphor is and internalize it. Promethean isn't about becoming normal--you can achieve the Great Work and be a six foot tall male bodybuilder with pink hair that wears cocktail dresses--it's about fixing what's broken in you.
>>47734217
The long and short of it:
I think that Promethean doesn't really work as a metaphorical game for anything *real* other than the Big Questions of "what does it mean to be human". It's the Pinocchio story. I do however think that it's a game where if you go under the surface, you can ascribe many metaphors to it.
As long as you get passed "why do I have to become a normie?" which I think is a sticking point for a lot of people. They're human, everyone else is human, so they see joining humanity as being equivalent to joining the popular kids at school and pretending they don't like anime and video games.
>>47734217
For me, the body dysphoria is an easy fit; the face you see in the mirror has a name and a past that is distinctly not yours, and people call it by a literally dead name with a whole host of preconceived notions attached to it. One of the Created is trying to learn how to be the person they're becoming.
>>47734658
Yeah, but that's a thing that CAN happen, but not a major theme. Promethean doesn't hammer home that your body is someone else's. Because, I mean, it isn't. Not anymore. The oddness of body there isn't having the wrong body that's distinctly not yours. It's more like living in an old house that used to belong to someone else.
When people mistake you for the person you once were, they do it in a way that's like getting a stranger's mail because they didn't update their address. There're a few themes that play off of being someone else's corpse, but usually they're more along the lines of exploring a setting aspect, as opposed to being a metaphor. As far as I remember, at least, they don't really go into that a ton except as a potential Milestone and Verney killing the Hangman's Beautiful Daughter. It's less deadnaming and more mistaken identity because you've stolen someone's body. The body isn't the problem, the fact that you were born into it despite it being someone else's is.Which isn't helped by the number of Prometheans who kill to get a good corpse for their progenyIn fact, I'd say the thing that it IS a metaphor of is organ transplants.
I mean, Lace's body was actually that of a long haired Disney Channel popstar expy of 2008 era Justin Beiber. Although only like one character ever noticed, since Lace's creator dressed him as a girl.
forever disappointed onyx path doesn't have the chutzpah to put in an abrahamic pantheon in scion
>>47735775
Im sure they wanted to step away from the abrahamic religious because of Owod. Just saying.
>>47735775
Abrahamic Pantheon doesn't play nice with others.
What with "Thou shalt have no other gods before me" and all.
>>47735855
they're missing out on an incredibly fascinating mythological setting for their mythological game
>>47735896
Wouldn't that be cool in the setting? It's not really different than the Egyptian pantheon thinking they're the best cause they're the oldest or Hindu thinking they're the best cause they have the most followers.
Make Yahweh the Titan or Absent, Arch-Angel s can be the Pantheon
>>47735775
In addition to what other people are saying, the Abrahamic religion doesn't really have a Pantheon, and it's also familiar to most of the players, even if they're not actively participating in those religions. Scion is supposed to be about things people only know from pop culture, things that are different from what they know about from their day to day lives.
>>47735915
>Make God evil and have the Archangels be the Pantheon
That is literally doing what >>47735855 points out they likely want to avoid, and basically ignoring how the religion actually works to just use it's trappings. They're already moving away from "the Gods have to fit into this rigid class system" in the first place.
If you're really interested about it, why not go to the Ask Neall thread and ask about it? Heck, someone else probably already has. Atamajakki, you still around? I've seen you kick around that thread; has anyone asked about Abrahamic Scions?
>>47735901
Wow at first I thought you were shitposting. But know I know you are serious.
>>47735915
You have a descent idea with this. Having the arch angels replace the typical pantheon. Maybe also have saints be a thing.
Promethean is just about being human.
Beast was meant to be about being 'oppressed' and in the wrong body, drawing parallels to gay/otherkin/trans, except it was done so horribly that even gay and trans people felt incredibly offended.
>>47735775
But the Abrahamic God is the villain.
>>47736011
Beast is like if someone saw Jews in the 1930s being insulted, so they decided to make an 'empowering' game about a secret race of people that ruled the world, and literally had horns and controlled the banks and sacrificed Christians to their dark god.
>>47736006
>shitposting
Abrahamic religion has tons of creatures to use as enemies or allies, tons of artifacts for relics, and lots of myths to explore. Don't tip it too hard there man.
>>47735994
>Ask Neall thread and ask about it? Heck, someone else probably already has. Atamajakki, you still around? I've seen you kick around that thread; has anyone asked about Abrahamic Scions?
It's been asked in the thread before and Neall always responds with "hotly debated"
just finished my first game of mage ascension
one of the other players was an orphan detective. He got a hold of the number for my technocratic Front. He called it and told them my technocrat had told people about magic and wizards and other things that aren't real.
I have never seen someone fuck over another person so efficiently using a phone.
>>47736006
How is he shitposting? I mean, there IS a lot of stuff you could do, especially if you dip into apocrypha and sects.
>>47736011
>Beast was meant to be about being 'oppressed
No. No it isn't, stop repeating that. It was never about that. At best it could be READ as being LIKE that.
>>47736022
Is he?
>>47736092
>"hotly debated"
Is that his version of "in your setting, sure"?
>>47736092
As I said I thought at first you were you were shitposting but its very evident your not, now I'm interested in what sort of idea you have for it.
Sorry I didn't that clear.
![2c5205f58f2f98fa4e60f69793ace8e4[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/KCQQZKM.jpg "2c5205f58f2f98fa4e60f69793ace8e4[1].jpg")
>>47736152
Oh, I got you now. Yeah first read it as like patronizing.
The whole hierarchy of angels itself would be extremely interesting to explore as shock troops I think anyway.
Like look at pic related! That's an angel the Band would have to deal with
>>47736177
What the hell sort angel is that?!?
>>47736231
"The Thrones (Ancient Greek: θρόνος, pl. θρόνοι; Latin: thronus, pl. throni) are a class of celestial beings mentioned by Paul the Apostle in Colossians 1:16. According to the New Testament, these high celestial beings are among those Orders at the Christ's service.[1][2] They are the carriers of the Throne of God, hence the name."
According to Matthew Bunson, the corresponding order of angels in Judaism is called the abalim or "arelim/erelim,[3] but this opinion is far from unrivaled. The Hebrew word erelim is usually not translated "Thrones", but rather "valiant ones", "heroes", "warriors".[citation needed] The function ascribed to erelim in Isaiah 33:7 and in Jewish folklore[4] is not consonant with the lore surrounding the Thrones.
The Ophanim (Wheels or Galgallin) is a class of celestial beings, from Daniel 7:9, that are also equated with the "Thrones" occasionally. They are said to be great wheels covered in eyes."
These "wheels" have been associated with Daniel 7:9 (mentioned as galgal, traditionally "the wheels of galgallin", in "fiery flame" and "burning fire") of the four, eye-covered wheels (each composed of two nested wheels), that move next to the winged Cherubim, beneath the throne of God. The four wheels move with the Cherubim because the spirit of the Cherubim is in them. These are also referred to as the "many-eyed ones" in the late Second Book of Enoch (20:1, 21:1).
For some[who?] the Ophanim are also related to or equated as the "Thrones", since the Throne of God is usually depicted as being moved by wheels, in the vision of Daniel 7:9 (Old Testament), however the Thrones, (Gr. thronos) are a distinct form of celestial spiritual being usually portrayed as adoring elder men in Christian scripture. The cherubim carry, by moving the Ophanim, the throne of God.
>>47725453
Wow, holy shit!
A vampire fan and a hardcore autist.
Who woulda thunk it?
>>47736092
>What are the odds of an Abrahamic Pantheon? (Egg)
>Hotly debated. (Neall)
Oh, I see. I think he means "we can't decide".
>>47736152
Oh. Well, I'm not him, but even Supernatural does some interesting stuff with Angels. Judeo-Chrislam also has its own Scions, in the form of the Nephilim. Plus, there's the stuff with Lucifer and the fallen angels, whether you take a post-Miltonian "rebelled but isn't evil" sort of view or not. And since "evil" Gods are perfectly viable parent material in Scion, there is a case to be made for characters with Lucifer or Azazel as parents or patrons. In a lot of the less mainstream Protestant versions of Christianity (not to mention Judaism or Islam), you've got Angels--or saints, since Catholicism at least treats some of them the same, and syncretism means that in some places pagan Gods are recontextualized as being synonymous with saints; voodoo comes to mind there--treated as lesser Gods.
>>47736231
>6 When the Lord commanded the man in linen, “Take fire from among the wheels, from among the cherubim,” the man went in and stood beside a wheel. 7 Then one of the cherubim reached out his hand to the fire that was among them. He took up some of it and put it into the hands of the man in linen, who took it and went out. 8 (Under the wings of the cherubim could be seen what looked like human hands.)
>9 I looked, and I saw beside the cherubim four wheels, one beside each of the cherubim; the wheels sparkled like topaz. 10 As for their appearance, the four of them looked alike; each was like a wheel intersecting a wheel. 11 As they moved, they would go in any one of the four directions the cherubim faced; the wheels did not turn about[b as the cherubim went. The cherubim went in whatever direction the head faced, without turning as they went. 12 Their entire bodies, including their backs, their hands and their wings, were completely full of eyes, as were their four wheels. 13 I heard the wheels being called “the whirling wheels.” 14 Each of the cherubim had four faces: One face was that of a cherub, the second the face of a human being, the third the face of a lion, and the fourth the face of an eagle.
>15 Then the cherubim rose upward. These were the living creatures I had seen by the Kebar River. 16 When the cherubim moved, the wheels beside them moved; and when the cherubim spread their wings to rise from the ground, the wheels did not leave their side. 17 When the cherubim stood still, they also stood still; and when the cherubim rose, they rose with them, because the spirit of the living creatures was in them.
>20 These were the living creatures I had seen beneath the God of Israel by the Kebar River, and I realized that they were cherubim. 21 Each had four faces and four wings, and under their wings was what looked like human hands. 22 Their faces had the same appearance as those I had seen by the Kebar River. Each one went straight ahead.
>>47735775
If you want Christian urban fantasy, just play on of the dozens of games that enable it. Scion is all about pagan mythology.
Q: With the mention of saints (on the one hand) and the potentially syncretic nature of the West African Pantheon(s), I find myself wanting to know: how will Scion address the Abrahamic faiths? (Dataweaver)
>A: Very caref- (Neall)
(And please don't say “very carefully”; I’m taking that as a given.) (Dataweaver)
>I know, but it's worth reiterating. Still, I'll talk more about this at Gen Con, so hold your horses for a few days.
I will note, though, that a primary source of inspiration for the new edition is The Wicked + The Divine, where the scientifically- and historically-verified Pantheon exists alongside Abrahamic faiths (to which monotheism, evolving from henotheism as a concept, came somewhat late) with no problem. Another source of inspiration is the NBC series Kings; yet another is Ishmael Reed's Mumbo Jumbo, whose monotheist Wallflower Order is very similar to the Order of the Divine Glory, except rather cooler. Make of that what you will for the moment, but I will say that I don't intend to include the Order of the Divine Glory in its part incarnation at the moment, and if I do, it'll be more like the Templars of Assassin's Creed than anything else. (Neall)
>>47736393
I disagree. Scion is about religion. It doesn't really need to be pagan. I mean, look at the inspirations I just quoted.
>>47736393
I said abrahamic, not christian. You're immediately ruling out Judaism and Islam for no reason at all.
Scion is all about being a child of the divine in an urban setting. Not pagan mythology
>>47736393
I'm still waiting for Neall to give his full explanation of how things like Christianity's mythology fit into Scion 2e (Dataweaver)
>You probably won't get a full explanation until the book itself. Scion's World is based on our world, albeit with subtle differences (like the small matter of all mythologies being true). The Abrahamic religions might be relatively unchanged, but the mythologies behind them would be significantly altered.
>If the Abrahamic faiths can still be in The Wicked + the Divine, I don't see any reason why they can't be in Scion, though I'll go into it more at length in the book. (Neall)
And Neall does apparently consider himself a believer (in religion) so it's probably going to be a Thing, even if they don't have a Christian Pantheon.
http://www.ttrarchive.com/store/index.php?title=Scion_2E:_What_We_Know
>>47736456
>>47736393
Or watching the whole of the Judaism, Christianity, and Islam shit themselves as the realize that these gods who are an affront to their belief system, wreck shop and prove their existence. (The Dude)'
>The issue of monotheism is addressed, though not in a way that really dismisses the religions. I'm not gonna leave my boy Abraham in the lurch. (Neall)
((I'm only > quoting Neall, for ease of reading))
Seems your impression of things is a bit off, Jakki.
>>47736456
From Neal:
>You probably won't get a full explanation until the book itself. Scion's World is based on our world, albeit with subtle differences (like the small matter of all mythologies being true). The Abrahamic religions might be relatively unchanged, but the mythologies behind them would be significantly altered.
>If the Abrahamic faiths can still be in The Wicked + the Divine, I don't see any reason why they can't be in Scion, though I'll go into it more at length in the book.
>>47736503
Your quote has nothing to do with your original point about Scion being "all pagan mythology"
Your quote says the mythologies behind them would be significantly altered to fit the Scion setting.
They're already hilariously botching Algonquian by lumping that all together. No reason they can't throw in Abrahamic in the setting so a Band can fight horse sized locus with human heads wearing crowns
>>47736531
I just wanna play the game, man.
Really hope Scion gets some historical settings from the Kickstarter.
>>47736615
I want to play it too. So bad.
I like the direction it's heading so far. We'll see about the kickstarter in what, August?
>>47736531
>They're already hilariously botching Algonquian by lumping that all together
Eh. Not like there aren't a bunch of consolidated pantheons already.
Where do I go if I want to talk about CofD and its actual rules and fluff without Aspel shitposting and without /pol/-style "politics"?
>>47736919
September, according to Neal.
>>47737134
I use the official forums and tumblr.
>>47727663
>Every Refinement has two Transmutations. Each Transmutation is broken down into four Alembics. Each Alembic is broken down into four Distillations. With me so far?
Uhhhh...
Seems needlessly complicated.
I'd probably understand better if I had the book in my hands though.
This is how I Adamantium Arrow
>>47737637
Thanks for sharing
>>47737641
not my fault the thread is dead
>>47737637
>>47737646
I'm not even sure what I'm looking at.
They're not going to errata Exceptional Luck, are they, lads?
>>47737706
An Operator in plain clothes protecting his Arch Mage boss?
>>47737722
They'd fucking better.
>>47737722
>>47737755
Who cares?
Seriously, we're well passed wanting the game to be better and into "bitching just to bitch" territory. Most of the problems come from everyone just taking Touhou's word for it that you can do this or that amazing thing, the rest is it working exactly as intended and people finding that too much. If they never did anything about Mind in 1e, why should they care?
If the errata and FAQ come out and you don't feel it helps, then feel free to bitch. But at this point everyone has been told to stop bringing up the same problems and we're playing the waiting game.
We get it, Exceptional Luck is broken. What's the point of bringing it up over and over?
I'm more interested in questions about Yantras, fixed Practices, and whether certain spells will go up or down in dot rating than to keep hearing people bitch about their pet system issue.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xjvIaYgOtw
Would the Jaegers from Pacific Rim be a good design reference for an Arrow Dreadnought?
>>47737948
No, those are anything but subtle.
Think full-body combat cyborg.
>>47737802
Steadfast is the real problem.
>>47737959
>Think full-body combat cyborg.
That is what I was thinking of. I just went with the Jaegers a first design choice because, well, wouldn't you want an Arrow Tamer Of Winds whose dreadnought body had stylings of Crimson Typhoon?
>>47738009
I was thinking more like Warframe.
>>47731174
Mekhet fit that rather well, maybe create a bloodline.
>>47738065
>Arrow Legacy of Tenno knockoffs.
I can dig. What would their Additional Arcana be? Also I think they should be able to hail from any Path.
>>47730008
Still? It's been at least eight fucking years now.
>>47738192
Hmm I dont know. All the Warframe suits have their own unique Abilities so its hard to really say.
Could I use body control (Life 2) to make someone lose consciousness?
>>47738197
Aspel is obsessive.
>>47738305
You can make them Tired with Ruling, but it would probably take Weaving at least to force the biological effects which would result in unconsciousness.
>>47737995
I'd also suggest not permitting more than one Boon effect to be used on any given roll. Perhaps require additional reach to bypass that.
News from White Wolf
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zntRh5WRAS0
>>47738553
New videogame at E3 confirmed
>>47738613
For real? I can't be fucked to sit through 24 minutes of Wolf Wank.
>>47738617
I have no idea, I can't sit through it either.
Everything ever published for pWoD Orpheus
>X-files in a post-Wraith setting, no other supernaturals.
Best oWoD imo
http://www45.zippyshare.com/v/W2HXS6h6/file.html
How long will it take to get errata/FAQ for Mage 2e?
>>47732482
>>47731174
How do you stop time?
>>47739073
I'd imagine you'd need to put a lot of points into Celerity and then homebrew a new advanced power (combined ability, forgot the term) to allow you that kind of fuckery.
>>47737995
>>47738436
I don't really think they mind it being able to give Steadfast. I don't really even think the "more than one boon effect" is necessary, since someone on the forums seemed to be saying that ending the Condition ends the spell. Just make that clearer. You also can't use Informed and Steadfast at the same time, because this isn't Magic, it's Mage, and there's no Stack.
The whole "issue" seems to be something you deliberately have to try at, though, so I don't exactly see the spell getting super changed anyway.
>>47738197
>>47738334
Or I'm hating what he's doing currently, as opposed to having a grudge. Or was doing. He seems to have stopped, so it doesn't really matter now, just people bringing his word up as gospel.
>>47739073
Do you really need to stop time as a vampire? That shouldn't really even be a vampire power. If you want to be really really fast, there's a Celerity+Auspex devotion that gives you bullet time.
>>47739394
>since someone on the forums seemed to be saying that ending the Condition ends the spell
They obivously have no idea how the thing works then.
>>47739394
>Do you really need to stop time as a vampire? That shouldn't really even be a vampire power.
>That shouldn't really even be a vampire power.
>>47739401
A lot of people on the forums have no goddamn clue how the games work, much less the writers. I think a lot of it has to do with how abilities are written, with both narrative and mechanical effects intertwined.
>>47739426
>Implying that was a vampire power
DIO isn't just a vampire, he's a Stand user.
>>47739401
Well, Touhou seemed to be quibbling with him, so if you trust Touhou then there you go. His argument was that resolving *the* Condition makes the spell end early, so clearly having *multiple* Conditions completely ignores that. That seems like incredibly sketchy argumentative logic that does not match what the rules as written say.
>>47725782
>With the way Onyx has been shitting over its customer base lately
I haven't been following recent events, what do you mean by this?
>>47739776
Judging from what look to be their other posts, they mean by being SJWs.
>>47738553
>all this WOE IS ME MUH HEARTBREAK
Wow. I hadn't actually heard Dracula talk before; holy fuck, what a grognard.
>>47729312
Vampires don't pop out from nowhere (usually). Someone Embraced each of your characters for a reason. This means they're likely to have a Mentor who both helps them out and makes use of them. That's a good place to start. Does a player join their Mentor's Covenant or do they stab his back and join someone else?
Do all the characters belong to the same Covenant? Is there an alliance between two Covenants against an external threat? Do the characters like each other or know each other from their breathing days? They might be each other's vampire relatives.
Ask your players what kind of games do they want to play (Social, Investigation etc.). Also let help you with building character bonds. If they work towards the group keeping together they're less likely to make a mess.
>>47739073
Give your character a magic arrow with that power. Awakening a Stand is optional.
Anyone have a subnet archive or snapshot? I have a friend that can rehost it in a way for it to not be taken down.
>>47725579
Great book, not for beginners though because your ST will need to fix at least half the gifts.
I do love it though
>>47741037
Sounds legit to me
You are introverted nobody girl in school your shadow name is the most popular diva/idol. How do you make it that you only have fame with your shadow name?
>>47741298
Alternate Identity?
>>47741310
Isnt shadow name merit already an alter ego?
Is Astral Adept worth it?
>>47741357
Shadow name (not a merit) is something every Mage has.
Shadow name Merit is possessed by Mages who treat it seriously enough to get it as a Yantra.
Neither is an Alternate Identity Merit, but both are an alternate identity.
I see how it's confusing.
>>47741357
>Alternate Identity (•, •• or ••••)
The number of dots spent on this Merit determines how
convincing and in-depth the documentation surrounding this
new life actually is. Alternate Identity (●) represents an identity
that passes casual inspection, but not much else a character
can go shopping and get around in most daily situations, but any
kind of trained scrutiny such as from a police officer or bureaucrat
immediately identifies this identity as a fake. Alternate Identity
(●●) creates an identity that will pass most forms of relatively
cursory professional inspection, but cannot stand up to a sustained investigation. A police officer that pulls your character
over will not automatically pick up anything unusual if she runs
the character’s license plates or calls up his name in a database.
However, if your character is arrested and the police begin a
formal investigation his identity will quickly unravel. Alternate
Identity (●●●●) represents an identity that is essentially as real
as any identity can be it takes a truly dedicated, competent
and time-consuming search by trained professionals to uncover
any hint that the purified isn’t exactly who he claims to be, at
least as far as his documentation is concerned.
>>47741298
You don't.
>>47741246
Basically, it's gonna be hosted in Vodkaland, where DMCA does not apply, and they can't take shit down unless they acquire a highly specific package of documents, which is almost impossible to get without going to the Motherland.
Even if they do take me down - it'll take them a couple of months.
>>47741210
It just feels very well put together..the art fits nicely and it is able to stand on its own while still being able to relate to every splat.
I can't find the V20 corebook on the Pastebin, am I missing something obvious?
>>47741581
https://web.archive.org/web/20160305092247/http://rp.thesubnet.com/
>>47738553
Well it's good to see him be so dedicated to the setting. The fact that he's calling it "one last ride" is a bit...unnerving.
>>47741037
There is quite a lot (except for the new stuff) on archive.org. It shouldn't be that hard to download it. Some newer stuff is in google cache, but I don't know any convenient way to download it from there.
>>47741581
Oh, please be sure to post links here.
Thank you a lot.
>>47742051
The normal method I would use to backup an entire website (WinHTTrack) is not doing anything but the main index page. So that's out.
>Gaining Vampire power depends on how you drink from someone. For example, a Vampire gains Dominate when they drink from someone they made submit to them before drinking, or gains Obfuscate by drinking from someone society doesn't pay attention to, like a homeless person or a nerd in his basement.
One World of Darkness is going to be very, very different.
>>47742209
That sounds fucking rad desu
>>47742124
It's because archive.org is shit. It needs some bizzare shit to actually download the entire site, wget -r is not working either. Gotta find the solution.
>>47742209
That's the mechanics that they used for their immersive almost-no-mechanics End of the Line LARP. IF they make those changes to tabletop I doubt anyone will actually buy into it.
>>47742221
I agree, actually, it's just super different.
>>47742251
It seems like they're going to put it in the video game and give it mechanics for the tabletop version, which will apparently also be the new LARP system or could be turn into the new LARP system with only a few tweaks. He says it'll be very MMO-like, which most likely means that WoD MMO is still on the table after all.
LARPing will be mostly mechanics based with regular Nordic LARP events. The End of the Line LARP will be coming in some form to this year's The Grand Masquerade.
>>47739394
>>47739481
If a spell gives you multiple conditions, it's fucking stupid if ending ONE of them makes the other go away.
>>47739394
>The whole "issue" seems to be something you deliberately have to try at
Give yourself the 9-again boon.
Give yourself Steadfast.
Make it work on magic.
WOW, now you can shit your next spell down to dice pool total -5 and then auto succeed.
FAIR AND BALANCED.
>>47742472
I thought Steadfast just turned Chance Dice into regular dice when one was at negatives?
>>47742234
Okay, so this is how it works.
Archive.org stuffs in pages with different timestamps, so downloading everything in bulk is really hard. I'll do some work around it, but it's probably going go be a pain in the ass.
If somebody has any means to contact the creators directly it will be a lot easier.
Initial progress - raumwalross. tk
As you can see - pretty much nothing works.
>>47742525
>Give yourself the 9-again boon.
That's what this is for lad.
>>47742661
Also, the bloody site uses absolute paths all over, so the buttons on the mirror go to shit, even though I add the files:
raumwalross. tk/portal/wod/ctd/Introduction.html
Here is the last snapshot of this page, but the button on the site goes to:
thesubnet. com/portal/wod/ctd/Introduction.html
So I'll have to edit everything by hand if I'll try to fondle this thing.
>>47742661
http://www.archiveteam.org/index.php?title=Restoring
>>47742849
>http://www.archiveteam.org/index.php?title=Restoring
There's no WARC, and I am already using the wayback machine downloader. If I am a dumbshit, and there is WARC - please do provide.
>>47742472
>>47742673
You have one die with 9-Again. That's not autosucceeding. That's also pretty much what I mean when I say "deliberately have to try at".
>>47742436
No stupider than if a spell gives you one condition resolving one makes the rest of the spell go away.
>>47742973
>You have one die with 9-Again.
Read the fucking boon.
>>47742807
>>47742943
Ok, in that case I don't understand what exactly is the problem here.
Absolute paths are solved easily. Just recursively change them all with regexp from thesubnet.com to raumwalross.tk, no need to convert it to relative ones.
>>47742807
You don't need to put a space in the url, btw. As a few other people have demonstrated, links aren't removed.
>>47743012
Holy hell that's strong. Who greenlit that?
I thought the Onyx Path balance stance was "not make one thing so much better that everyone wants to take it, to the exclusion of other stuff."
5 dots in one Arcana or 2 dots in every Arcanum? Same Gnosis for both.
>>47743362
Well if you've spent XP on reaising your Gnosis then obviously Master of one.
If you're going for the "some of all" approach, raising your Gnosis above 2 is pointless until you can actually learn the 3rd dots of your common arcana
>>47743012
Hmm
"if used on a chance die, the subject does not gain the 9-again quality, >but the chance die is treated as a SINGLE DIE instead of a chance die."
Well golly ge, im so glad you can fucking read.
O wait you can't your to busy eating the shit strait from touhoufag's ass.
>>47743394
What does Steadfast do?
>>47743012
Note that part about +2 Reach for spellcasting rolls and that the spells who grant those Boons then ask for additional Reach for spellcasting too.
I guess it's supposed to mean only once +2 Reaches, but the fact it's mentioned only with 9- and 8- again and not with dice bonus of the Boon is a tad bit confusing.
