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>Question
What Country are your games set in? How does your choice of nation affect them?
>What Country are your games set in? How does your choice of nation affect them?
Sweden, so that the theme of monsters infiltrating and corrupting society is all the more intensified.
We should talk about characters.
I was making a character to get the hang of Mage. Basically an Indiana Jones type chick, with the Shadowname of Dakota. While Acanthus is pretty fitting for characters in the adventurer mold, since they always seem to have things turn out just right for them as they bumble in over their heads, I figure I'd focus more on what they do than how she keeps from dying. So I'm thinking Moros is most fitting. Matter and Death with a bit of Prime should be good for raiding old Atlantean tombs.
>>47702151
Sounds like the game might be sweetish.
>>47702210
You bet.
Are ghouls ever worth it?
>>47702839
So long as you make sure they can be disposed of very, very easily, and that they know this, yes.
>>47702839
Who is this semen demon?
>>47702839
>Are the disposable bodybags who are addicted to your drug which you can sent them out to find the "materials" for worth it?
Very much so
>>47702865
http://avasdemon.com/
AMERICA ONLY
>>47703102
USA! USA! USA! USA!
>>47702084
Does anyone have the Ghouls and Revenant book to share?
What are some mustwatchs for the different WoD Games?
>>47702084
>What Country are your games set in?
Haven't run mine yet, but planning England.
I'd also want to try running some set in America.
I'd rather chew off my dick than set one here in Australia.
So fucking sick of hearing about Aboriginal culture.
>>47704588
Bbut Aboriginal culture is so original.
Do we really want these /pol/ and "le semen demon" discussions over talking about the actual game mechanics?
>>47704684
Not to an Australian.
>>47704736
Apparently. Either that or autistic breakdowns.
>>47703035
Hey thanks for sharing this web comic. I'm fucking loving it.
Rolled 9, 8, 10, 10, 6, 1, 8, 9 = 61 (8d10)
>>47704736
rolling Strength + Patriotism to kick you in the cunt
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOLVxDxuS2w
I'm building a wall...a fine wall...not so much to keep you out, but more to keep me in.
>>47702839
>Having Slaves who will work for free and are more capable then normal humans
how are they not worth it?
>>47704736
>not liking Semen Demons
fag
>>47705664
I think the best thing is the come in two flavors, Lesser Goetia of Lust, and Unchained with that particular Cover.
>>47705679
what?
>>47704736
>>47705600
you're done
5 succ at 7 diff roll to soak bitch
>>47705639
https://youtu.be/Jz8c17upEwM
Build that wall and build it strong 'cause we'll be there before too long
>>47705695
Semen demons can be either a Goetia of Lust or a Demon of the God-Machine that has a cover of a loose woman.
He forgets Spirits, Geister, and even Supernal denizens. There are many semen demons.
>>47705768
just wasnt aware of the pictures he was referring too. But yeah hot chicks are always relevant.
Is Suppress Life, at Death 2, *meant* to not have any kind of Withstand roll?
1. Be Death 3 Gnosis 1, like a starting character might be.
2. Use dedicated magical tool as reflexive yantra, whatevs
3. Use your free reach on Sensory Range and Instant. Use another reach (offset by tool) to go to Advanced duration.
You can now turn anyone off at will until you cast something else, as a starting character.
>>47705906
"the subject appears for all intents and purposes as though she is dead"
It's the practice of Veiling man, you only apppear dead, and by which I mean you can still walk, talk, fight and do everything normally, but physically you'll appear dead. Think zombie.
What's more, you're not actually dead, you just appear to be.
So you'll still need to eat, breath, drink and shit as per normal.
>>47705930
Give it a few days for the actual necrotic side effects to kick in on the mask, and you've got a kickass realistic Halloween costume.
>>47705930
To be fair, since it effects other people, it should have a Withstand.
Also, Suppress Other's Life was my waifu spell. Best combat power in 1e, if you had something like Aikido 3 to reflexively Grapple (since most Death spells required that)
So... what cool stuff CAN you do as a starting character with low Death or Prime?
Prime turns you into a lie detector which is nice, but otherwise it doesn't seem like there's a lot in there in terms of "cool stuff I can casually do" unless you need to change your resonance for whatever reason.
>>47705972
A lot of powers that affect other people don't have withstand.
Memory Hole being an exceptionally fun example.
Make people forget what they're talking about in the middle of a sentence. Everyone forgets things, so no Dissonance, no Withstand so easy as hell, and don't go wiggly fingers, so no sleeper induced Paradox.
>>47705991
>Death
Blind people, give Ghosts an Open condition, control Shadows, create practically anything out of ephemera (how about a bicylce made of dead people juice)?
>Prime
Fuck with other people's Magic, copy Grimoires permanently (might take a little Withstand, and a Rote), invisible writing, provide universal Withstand, hide objects/spells/anything from Magical detection, kick some ass socially with Words of Truth or just use it to give your friends Inspired.
Yeah, they're not as good straight off as Fate, Mind, Space, or Time, but I always personally thought of Fate as a supplementary Arcanum until you get to bullshit proficiency.
And Death, well, Death's not about using Death, it's about using a horrifying army of angry Ghosts who you have shackled to your will.
>>47706010
Mudra use has no effect on whether something is Paradoxical, and I'm more willing to assume they forgot than it doesn't have it. There's a reason they get fans to do final editing.
>>47705991
>>47706050
Shadow Sculpting was my favourite power in 1e, and now I can explicitly do what I liked to do: Make shit out of shadows to do other shit. I made a shadow staircase once.
>Shackled to your will
See, that's the kind of thing my Moros would'a taken you down over.
>>47706050
>but I always personally thought of Fate as a supplementary Arcanum
Why not bullshit around Exceptional Luck?
>>47706112
That was uh, supposed to say Prime as a supplementary Arcanum.
>>47706084
>Mudra use has no effect on whether something is Paradoxical
If a Sleeper sees you make some crazy ass gestures, and then someone's car explodes, that's Paradoxical.
If someone's sees you standing there, then a care explodes, it's not.
>>47706157
That's not how Paradox works. I don't even think that's how it worked in oWoD.
So did any of you actually submit anything to Monica? Care to tell us what it was?
Is Exceptional Luck the best single spell for its dot level?
Looks like it's the best spell ever to have as a rote.
>>47706179
There are some situations where a Mundra would take an occurance from odd but not impossible to "obviously magical"
>>47706193
Without a single doubt, yes.
Yes it is.
>>47706193
Let's just go with "yes" and then never mention the spell again.
>>47706203
Some weirdo making gestures right before something happens doesn't make it "obviously magical" unless it was going to be obviously magical in the first place.
In fact, the Magical Traditions merit in 1e was all about making something "obviously magical" LESS paradoxical by being a weirdo making gestures.
>>47706193
what is this
>>47706231
Clever ways to phrase your slut shamingOr words of praise
>>47706278
>tfw dirty talk/name calling is my fetish
>>47706300
Mine too, but I think if someone called me a semen demon I'd be giggling too hard to get off.
>>47706332
>if someone called me a semen demon
Are you gay or a grill?
>>47705906
>>47705930
>>47705940
I have a player in my group who keeps maintaining that RAW that spell kills people. The argument being "all symptoms of death" includes oxygen deprivation, which destroys the brain.
>>47706446
Literally every argument like this is solved by saying "Supernal laws overrule Fallen physics."
>>47706446
>>47706457
>Literally every argument like this is solved by saying "stop being a fucking dumbass".
>>47706457
>>47706480
I said "it doesn't, and I'm the ST".
Which was the wrong thing to say, apparently, because now he keeps whining about how stupid the authors were.
>>47706603
He does realize that this isn't the final version, right?
>>47706629
I assume so. Haven't dared tell him, just in case the wording isn't cleared up.
>>47703035
>reads through comic
>single panel pages
>chapters end with short animated videos
Reminds me of Homestuck, but with better art and about half of the cancer.
>checks forums
>it's been on hiatus for almost a year due to the author being busy with a Kickstarter
Definitely reminds me of Homestuck.
>>47706353
Yes.
>>47706703
Both?
Can you really be a Semen Demon in that case?
>>47706353
>Implying I'm one or the other
I'm a semen demon.
So, given how we've been talking about how Fate is one of the best Arcana, here's a question for you:
How many dots of Fate would you need to cast a curse on an African-American ghetto to cause a Black Lives Don't Matter riot after a cop guns down some random thug, and would it be a Act of Hubris against Wisdom? Looking at the descriptions of them in the section of the book on Wisdom, I guess it would count at Wisdom 8+, since it catches innocent bystanders in its effects, but what about lower levels? I mean, you're not forcing any particular person to commit any particular act; you're just arranging circumstances so that they're encouraged to act the way you want them to in general.
>>47706734
>Is it an Act of Hubris to cause a riot
/pol/, please go.
>>47706734
Depends how hard you're pushing it.
>>47706710
Yes.
>>47706762
Doesn't matter because you can use Fate to put Steadfast on yourself and auto-pass degeneration.
All hail 2huFate.
>>47706734
Judging from the precedents the example spells set, Fate 4 (specifically, Strings of Fate) is required for a broad, overarching "name an event, and that event will happen" effect. Even then, only one "push" towards the event will occur per week, unless a Reach is spent to increase the frequency of the "pushes" to once per day.
It will be a difficult casting, however. You will need to spend one Reach to increase the frequency of the "pushes" to once per day, another Reach for Advanced Duration, and yet another Reach for Advanced Scale. Assuming you have Fate 4, that is two Reaches beyond your limit, forcing you to use a Dedicated Tool and spend a large chunk of Mana to avoid Paradox.
Even then, casting will take a single ritual casting interval, and you will have to take a -10 dice penalty to increase the Advanced Scale to "a small neighborhood." A -10 penalty is nothing that Exceptional Luck cannot handle, of course.
If you do succeed, however, you will place Strings of Fate upon the entire "small neighborhood" for a month. Each day during that month, events will set themselves into motion that nudge the neighborhood into inciting the proper riot.
>>47706762
As for whether or not it would be an Act of Hubris, that is up for debate. Many of 1e's Mage books were surprisingly supportive of "rising up against the system," and a host of non-Left-Handed Legacies would support sparking riots to rebel against chains of oppression.
>>47706926
>ghetto
>random thug
I don't think he's trying to create a revolution.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVMHeqxQlBs
Rabbit Shifters?
>"If they catch you, then they will kill you, but first they must catch you."
>That one autist still gets furious when the mechanics are discussed.
>>47707632
It's Aspel.
>>47707638
Doug just wants to argue because it makes him feel important and valid. Lord knows he doesn't get that anywhere else in life.
>>47707655
We get it, you're a stalker
>>47707632
I like how complaining about obsessive and highly detailed focused dissection is autism now.
Does anyone have the Tal’Mahe’Ra book?
>>47707765
Getting triggered just because of it is autism.
>>47707765
Says the system with huge blocks of text on how flashlights, firearm suppressors, crowbars, nightvision goggles, etc. works.
Says the system that has you track ranges and count ammo.
>>47707821
We might have gotten a quite different CofD if they weren't initially tied to more minor updates thanks to CCP. CofD obviously WANTS to be more narrative-ish.
>>47707821
Huge blocks of text doesn't really mean it's not narrative. I mean, they're not giving hard and fast rules, they're giving paragraphs worth of vague suggestions. It also never talks about ammo counting aside from Autofire rules, which have phrases like "20 or so" bullets. By the way, I think Touhou said the Flashlight rules were a page and a half, but this is what they are:
>Flashlight
>Die Bonus +1, Durability 2, Size 1, Structure 3, vailability •
>Effect: In a dark world, a flashlight can be a person’s best friend. It generally does what it’s supposed to; it helps cut a path through the unknown. Its die bonus subtracts from any penalties due to darkness, and adds to any rolls to search in the dark. A good flashlight can serve as a club in a pinch. Also, it can blind an unfortunate subject. A Dexterity + Athletics roll, subtracting an informed opponent’s Defense, will put the beam where it needs to be. The victim’s player may make a contested Stamina roll. If your character scores more successes than the subject, they’re blinded for one turn. Victims with especially acute senses are blinded for two turns.
It's a general write up that gives advice on some off the cuff thing that a Storyteller might have to make up on the fly and that's about it. Pretty much none of the equipment is really all that detailed, mechanically, and most of the write ups concern how characters might use the equipment to further the story. You talk about tracking ranges and ammo count, but those are generally not things that will come up often; they've even started handwaving it to "Range bands" instead of actual ranges. The stats for guns are also general, and a one-size-fits-all that allows people who care about individual stats to have them and people who don't to keep not caring.
Almost everything from the core CofD mechanics feels like every time the ST made a judgement call, they just wrote that down and decided it was the rules.
Can anyone share v20 The Black Hand : A Guide to the Tal’Mahe’Ra?
>>47708050
>tfw no Giovanni in nWoD to play a Mobster
I have been watching Sopranos lately
>>47708164
Doesn't CofD have the Sangiovanni?
>>47708050
>By the way, I think Touhou said the Flashlight rules were a page and a half
The post you are thinking of is:
https://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/47584806/#47586994
"Have a look at page 226 of Mage: The Awakening 2e, for example. The *entire, text-only page* is dedicated to half of the rules for flashlights and the rules for personal computers(apparently, the dice bonus between a low-end and top-end computer is a whopping +3, the difference between a novice programmer and a hacker who can get into government and military systems, as per page 32 of Chronicles of Darkness), smartphones, survival gear, climbing gear, crowbars, firearm suppressors, and gas masks. By all accounts, this game is trying to be strangely simulationist by devoting a whole page to such relatively trivial things."
It is rather damning for an all-text page in a supposedly "narrative" game to be dedicated to half of the rules for flashlights and the rules for personal computers, smartphones, survival gear, climbing gear, crowbars, firearm suppressors, and gas masks.
Even the relatively short block of text for the flashlight is laughably long for such a trivial item.
Certain posters in these threads have a deplorable habit of misremembering arguments so as to subsequently twist and misrepresent others' points.
>>47708186
are they still the Mafia?
>>47708192
if you want, yes.
>>47708192
>>47708200
Are Mekhet though, so....no potence/vigour for you.
>>47708050
The CofD writers are backpedaling like crazy on the ammo/ranges.
>>47708208
physical disciplines are available to all
>>47708164
You don't need to be part of the Mobster Vampires Clan to be a mobster.
>>47708154
You asked that less than an hour ago. >>47707774
If anyone was going to share it, they're less likely to the more you ask.
>>47708190
>Even the relatively short block of text for the flashlight is laughably long for such a trivial item.
Not really. I'll admit it doesn't need to be that long, especially the Computer and smartphone entries, which are basically just "these are what computers are, but you already know that" without even giving the "uh, if it comes up I guess use this roll" style that the Flashlight write up has. It honestly just feels like they *don't* want it to just be a list of stats. Which, I can't really fault them for, since I'll read an equipment write up, but glaze over the weapon charts.
Also, you've stopped obsessively naming your images.
>>47708219
It's not like they were ever strict about it or anything. There were no real rules regarding it other than "here are ammo numbers" and "if you're in this range take this penalty".
nWoD has always been a crunch medium system. It doesn't expect you to use all of it's mechanics (and in many situations outright says not to bother before giving them anyway), even if they're there. Compare this to something like Shadowrun, where if you take out one small thing you need to tweak other things to compensate. Although I'd also expect Shadowrun to not *have* rules for a flashlight despite being a number obsessed system, but maybe I'm selling it short because I think it's a dumb convoluted system. Still, compare how it handles guns (or anything) to how CofD does.
>>47708263
They allways were, just saying that its not as easy to go for the bruiser archetype as before.
>>47708274
>no potence/vigour for you.
>>47708321
I was memeing, anybody who knows about the system knows that everyboy can get the 3 physical disciplines, even if they are out of clan disciplines.
Its just more expensive.
Sorry if you misunderstood that.
>>47702224
Truly ours is the world of darkness
Eh I guess either Ventrue or Gangrel is better for a mobster type character. Perhaps Daeva maybe.
>>47708796
Depends on how you want to play your Mobster I guess.
>>47708875
Ventrue and Gangrel are self explanatory (Capo/enforcer respectfully) a Daeva might represent the hedonistic self destructive kind of mobster. The young and stupid that get swept up in the glory (like Christopher from The Sopranos). Or a Mob wife or Comare.
Mekhet might be harder to swing. Maybe a crooked detective or someone working in politics.
Nosferatu I guess could work in any position really.
>>47708926
Daeva equals JoJo style flashy mobster.
>>47708942
Maybe back in the golden age of the mob but not modern day.
Though I dont know maybe Ralphie is a good example I guess?
>>47707675
Not even a good one, there's not a single person in the world whose name is actually Doug. Doug is a name that does not exist.
>>47706186
I'm pretty sure that agreement that's part of it makes it so you can't say what it is.
>>47708998
>I'm pretty sure that agreement that's part of it makes it so you can't say what it is.
Actually, as far as I can tell there's nothing preventing you from even posting it on the OPP forums or something
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B57iDF62OjtPV3dDT0VRN3gxMkU/edit
But I don't know legalese, and "nothing stopping you" doesn't make it a good idea.
>>47709017
I could have sworn there was a clause in there that was like "in addition to us owning this idea, once you send it to us you can't share it" but I could be wrong.
Can Prime be used for super accurate divination?
>>47709872
>Can Prime be used
No
>>47708271
>>47707774
>>47708154
That wasn't me. He posted his question while I was reading the rest of the thread so I didn't see his.
hey is it possible that my mage does not perceive ghosts like your stereotypical spectre but echoes/memories of those long gone? Perceive ghosts like petals being blown by a non existent wind etc.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGPnffuz_EM
Beast?
>>47710482
Certainly gay enough
>>47708926
Mekhet is the loyal right hand of a mobster, or maybe their lawyer
>>47710451
Dunno, but if I was the ST I'd sure as hell allow it. In fact, I'd probably even houserule that to be the default, as it would help distinguish ghosts from stuff like spirits.
>>47710912
out gm usually allows our mages to view the world in their own lenses colored by their experiences. Afterall, the Supernal is symbolism and even perception is defined by symbols. So two mages will look at the same thing with Mage Sight they may perceive it differently
What kind of spell do I need to make Silent Hill
>>47710678
What makes you say it's gay?
>>47710482
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XCywGhHQMEw
No, this is Beast.
Blind Mastigos Arrow who uses magic to see. I his seeing eye dog is his familiar and his cane is a concealed blade.
>>47712128
the big question is how he does this, does he use Mind to ride shotgun on the eyes of his dog, or does he use Space to get a feel for the sympathetic layout of his surroundings?
What's everyone's hopes and dreams for Gen Con?
>more info on Hunter 2e and Scion
>announcements of Geist 2e, maybe Mummy 2e, and (in a perfect world) Demon: the Fallen 15th Anniversary Edition
>Dark Eras 2
>>47712592
Deviant subtitle and an apology to thesubnet
>>47712592
>Dark Eras 2
That seems a bit out there, considering it just came out. Hunter, Scion and Deviant seem likely to make an appearance.
>>47706734
I was going to help you but your choice of words seem to suggest your Wisdom is already pretty damn low...
/pol/ get the fuck out please.
>>47712632
>choice of words seem to suggest your Wisdom is already pretty damn low...
Or he's a servant of the Ministry of the Panopticon (do their actions cause Sleepers to turn on minorities?)
>>47712592
I wouldn't count on Mummy 2e yet, sadly. Geist 2e is a stretch but I'd love if it did get announced.
Honestly they should just do a Mortal Remains-esque book just for Mummy with rules hacks to update it to 2e, or at least make it compatible with 2e.
>>47712668
Those are not mutually exclusive things, you know. In fact, they're often related.
>>47712592
>Geist 2e announcement (I'm expecting Mummy next year)
>A look at the first couple of Hunter supplements
>Some new CofD Vampire, Werewolf, and Mage supplements announced
>WoD Ghost Hunter book released and on sale
>A "special" CofD supplement in the vein of Dark Eras, without it actually being Dark Eras 2
>Deviant subtitle (if any)
I'd also really like an announcement that CofD books are returning to traditional retail, but we won't see that until we see how Pugmire sells when it hits retail.
>>47712592
Geist 2e.
Probably also >>47712723
I also want some Scion.
>>47712684
I think Mummy could stand with one more year for the line to settle, it's got a lot of moving parts that I don't think a 2e stopgap book would cover adequately. You might as well go all the way with it.
>>47712592
>Deviant subtitle
>More Demon books
>More Mage, Werewolf, Vampire books
>Promethean 2e release
And a prediction:
>Yet another new gameline announced for some reason, before Deviant has even begun proper development.
>>47712625
They're doing a panel called What Is Dark Eras? and I don't see it just being bragging about a finished product.
>>47712778
>Yet another new gameline announced for some reason, before Deviant has even begun proper development.
Oh god, I don't want this to be true, and yet it's so plausible...
>>47712778
>New gameline
What would they even do? I feel like a lot of ground has been covered at this point, and after the Beast debacle I'm skeptical that Deviant will be even decent, let alone yet another new game.
>>47712932
Heartless: The The Shadows
>>47712941
What does the even entail? Do you wait around for some kid in a Sora cosplay to hit you with a metal pipe?
>>47712981
>Lizzie specializes in the Heartless but, like all Harvesters, will take whatever immortal is available when she feels her life running low. At this time, she’s living off the last years of a Patchwork Person. Lizzie can feel that this stolen life will run out soon.
Immortals NPC description mentions HEartless but never goes into what they are, except the assumption that they're immortal.
Seemed like an idea.
>>47712592
Orpheus: CofD edition.
Geist 2e
>>47713154
>Orpheus: CofD edition.
Oh god, if only.
I know it couldn't work the same because of the differences between CofD and oWoD's metaphysics, but I feel like there's loads of room for a similar concept in CofD anyway. Though really they should be a Hunter Conspiracy or similar Minor Template kind of deal.
>>47713222
>Though really they should be a Hunter Conspiracy or similar Minor Template kind of deal.
Call it something like the Players of the Dead, that should work.
>>47713222
The Orpheus Group and its contemporaries would make a fine Tier 2 group, I think.
>>47713313
They're definitely a Conspiracy; they can leave their bodies to enter Twilight and the Underworld.
>>47713360
Fair enough, I was mostly going with Orpheus being an American company barely out of startup like in the core, but it could easily be a worldwide thing.
So I keep hearing that Demons are extremely powerful, but after reading the book they seem sorta gimped outside of going loud once in a campaign. Am I missing something? What makes them so much better than Vampires or Mages?
>>47714627
In WoD, because offense is dramatically stronger than defense for basically everyone, all that really matters is who swings first.
You can compare power tiers or whatever all day, but ultimately it comes down to which side realizes they're in a fight and which side doesn't, because the latter side is basically dead by default, whether they were a mage, a demon, or a vampire, regardless of whether their oppositon was another mage, a werewolf, or a particularly aggressive sedan.
Demons, being uber-stealthy, tend to swing first more often than everyone else.
>>47714659
Huh. That makes sense.
>>47714627
Go read what Merciless Gunman can do. Embeds and Exploits can get fucking crazy.
>>47712723
>until we see how Pugmire sells when it hits retail
In that case I wouldn't get my hopes high.
Whole concept of that game is completely ridiculous.
If OnyxPath is interested, I have ideas for several other games
-one starring cats
-one starring ponies
-one starring goldfish
-another starring bunnies
and few dozen more which I won't share here, so noone steals my brilliant ideas :-/
>>47702224
i can get behind this movie
>>47714993
>Whole concept of that game is completely ridiculous.
It caught on enough to do well on Kickstarter, even considering that an Onyx Path project has a better chance at doing well than others. I'm not expecting it to set the world on fire, but it'll probably break even.
I want to see Dracula's LARP character sheet
>>47714776
>>47714659
Also most of their powers are subtle but powerful things. In My Pocket means that in 90% of cases, you can pull whatever you need out of your pocket as long as you weren't given the pat down. Or, you know, you can pull it out of a trash can or something.
Not to mention powers like Shift Consequences and Thirty Minutes Ago, which let you fuck other people up. And if all else fails, there's Merciless Gunman and Hellfire, to turn anyone in your way into char. Oh, and they also get bar none the most free powers aside from Sin-eaters, but where most of the Sin-eater template benefits are utility powers and changes to what will put them down, Demons get to build an entire suite of free powers just for being Demons. Almost every Form Power is useful, and activating them as typical powers (i.e.: pay energy, get power) has little to no consequence since you're usually rolling Compromise at +5 or so.
Also, all of their powers tend to be highly narrative, and the splat as a whole doesn't give a shit for things like which powers are "physically reasonable", jumping straight to altering the Matrix.
On top of that, their abilities make them highly undetectable, shut down swaths of antagonist abilities that might catch them off guard, and then instead of resisting supernatural effects with their power stat (which is typically low), they resist with their morality trait, which starts at 7. Demons are without a doubt the most likely to lose Morality (since "having human Breaking Points" is a Compromise on top of "Doing Demon shit"), but they've also got the most potential to regain, maintain, and tailor their Morality trait, complete with a subsystem dedicated to it.
>tfw the new Watch Dogs makes me want to play an exceptionally punk Demon game set in San Fran
save me from myself, /cofdg/It would be a Hunter crossover with Utopia Now as an up-and-coming tech startup, the Night Watch patrolling Oakland and the other shit parts of town, and Network Zero trying to reveal the Machine but constantly being manipulated by it[ into blowing peoples' Covers/spoiler]
Which CofD lines make for the most interesting crossover?
>>47715573
>save me from myself, /cofdg/
https://i.4cdn.org/wsg/1465573111109.webm
>>47715593
Hunter, Mage.
>>47715573
The new Watch Dogs makes me want to puke
>>47715593
Mage and Changeling
How do people feel about the more powerful, or at least more overtly powerful way that Changelings are seemingly portrayed in 2e?
I always got the feeling that Changelings were generally the faction that was punching above their weight the most, and this should bring them into line with or even put them ahead of most othernon-Magesplats.
Fucking paradox closed fucking subnet. I know thats old news for you guys, but I've just found that out. I'm so mad right now. It was the best thing for looking shit up, WoD books are fucking unusable at the table. And they removed the only descent online game aid there was. Fucking paradox.
>>47716791
Try WoDCodex.com
it's incomplete but at least it's something
>>47716791
I've been trying to discuss it on the forums only to be met with "b-but it was illegal" and bringing out that trite and discredited argument that piracy hurts sales. One guy had the audacity to say I support piracy because I post in the /wodg/.Obviously it's the other way around
And I can't link a crapton of studies showing that in many cases piracy is beneficial, since that's against forum rules.
I mean, fuck, illegal or not, they pissed off a lot of people.
>>47716829
Until there's a better set of IP law, you gotta let it go. The Dark Pack's back and there's nothing we can really do about it.
should I get the Chronicles of Darkness Core if I have both the nWoD core and the god-machine rules update, or is the new core just both of them in one package?
>>47717087
Nah, you don't need it unless you want all the rules in a single book.
Most of the rules text is a copy-paste from VtR2e.
>>47717170
It's got a few extra rules that might be cool to use, but yeah, you're better off with a copy of any 2e core for the basics.
>>47716745
>>47716745
Well they are still fighting immortal quasi deities who consider sending terminators to hunt down missing pets, slaves and car keys to be totally justified.
Also Dual Kith needs balancing. EVERYONE HAS IT.THE WHOLE DAMN PARTY. THAT SHOULD TELL YOU SOMETHING.
>>47717208
Could you point me to any examples you can remember? I'd rather not have to go through the whole thing again to find the differences.
I just ordered Beast. I also found out everyone hates it. How bad is it?
>>47717243
It's basically SJW: the Crybullying.
>>47717258
FUUUUUUUUCK. FUCK FUCK FUCK
>>47717228
Say that in the open dev for changeling. David Hill did open it up for just this reason. He has a questionnaire for this.
>>47717243
Book started off horrible, and has turned into being merely unlikeable.
It has unsympathetic characters who try to excuse their bullshit with a flimsy "it's good for you" excuse.
The villains had to have a sidebar saying "oh yeah, we're only talking about the bad ones, not the good ones".
It's basically built to be a crossover book, and is thus mostly devoid of all actual direction by itself.
It's crossover potential is mostly in "hey, I can completely ignore my feeding requirement by just following you around when you hunt for your resource", and a universal power boost effect to every single splat (bar Demons).
Plus this crossover bullshit is attempted to be justified by trying to claim that their cosmology encompasses everyone's, and that they're all family, and isn't that great guys? Which only works to make them look horrendously deluded or arrogant as fuck (think 1e Mage Supremacy "Imma control Prometheans with Prime" bullshit).
Their morality stat is also their resource stat, which can be manipulated constantly gaining them an only recently surpassed capacity to farm beats.
Despite being "beasts" they're really only people who have spooky magic souls.
Their Dream Diving thing intrudes on Changeling space, their monster feeding thing intrudes on Werewolf space, and their parasitic relationship with humans intrudes on Vampires.
Basically it's a shitty directionless crapheap written for the sole purpose of parasitically latching on to much better splats and claiming that they were there aaaaaaaal along and it's so great the children of the night mother (or fucking whatever) are there to work with you, while truly being the redheaded step-child with down syndrome who everyone really doesn't want to even look at.
>>47717228
Problem being, back in 1e while the Gentry coming after you was nothing to sneeze at, they were only fairly stronger than a powerful Changeling.
Certainly someone you could fight back, or even kill given a plan and a few Shotguns full of pig iron shot.
Now they've got the unrelenting Huntsmen who will just keep getting mad with their crazy powers, and it's kinda blown it all out of proportion. Even if you defeat or kill a Huntsman, there will just be another. And another. And another.
And even if you go with the "Gentry have many different face and forms they use, kill one and that's only a moderate to minor loss for them" aspect, it still felt like a real victory.
>>47716953
https://web.archive.org/web/20100403134022/http://www.white-wolf.com/darkpack/fs_agreementterms.php
>2. CCP hf. owns the copyright, and/or a copyright interest, in all of the World of Darkness products published by it, its licensed partners and its affiliates. These interests include (but are not limited to): the Storyteller System; the backstory of the World of Darkness including factions (clans, tribes, etc.), named characters and unique locations, and items; and the storylines expressed in its novels, game products, licensed products, and the Camarilla worldwide chronicles; the artwork included in those works; and any and all derivative works of those materials.
>A derivative work is an expressive creation that includes or incorporates a portion of one or more previously created works. In the US and many other countries, this means a work based upon one or more preexisting works, such as a translation, musical arrangement, dramatization, fictionalization, motion picture version, sound recording, art reproduction, abridgment, condensation, or any other form in which a work may be recast, transformed, or adapted. A work consisting of editorial revisions, annotations, elaborations, or other modifications which, as a whole, represent an original work of authorship, is a "derivative work".
This is the most up to date version I could find (not currently on the internet anymore, requiring the Wayback Machine). They own your fan art. They own Darker Days Radio! A previous version explicitly stated that they want to own your characters!
>>47717935
The only reason they can do that is because no one would bother to contest a cease and desist. That totally violates free use laws.
>>47717984
>no one would bother to contest a cease and desist
Copyright laws, ladies and gentlement.
>>47717234
Chases, Investigations, merits that work off of those rules, Horrors.
>>47717243
Not as bad as >>47717258 this dumbass says, but also it's dumb and bland and basically a half-template stretched into a full book.
>>47717392
>Their Dream Diving thing intrudes on Changeling space
Dream diving is more Mage's space (and literally uses the Mage realm). That they feed off of fear is Changeling space. That they're playing the monster is Vampire's space. Cheap crossover is Hunter's space.
I really want an STG or Player's Guide for Beast, but this is OPP so even if they make one it won't come out until 2018.
>>47717984
Which is fuckin' shitty!
I will give them credit and say that this is only for being an OFFICIAL fansite. But still, it's a bold fuckin' move.
>>47717935
>CCP
the company doesn't even own it anymore
>>47718071
>This is the most up to date version I could find (not currently on the internet anymore, requiring the Wayback Machine)
I'm aware CCP doesn't own it anymore. But Dracula references the Dark Pack guidelines in his blog post, and that's what they currently exist as. Which is to say, they don't currently exist, since the only way to find them is an archived version of the White Wolf site from years ago.
>>47718012
Buttmad SJW detected
>>47718115
Buttmad alt-righty detected
>>47712202
Space perception
>>47718109
>But Dracula references the Dark Pack guidelines in his blog post, and that's what they currently exist as.
the blog post titled new dark pack guidelines coming soon?
>>47718243
The one that says "these fan site guidelines exist", yes.
>While we are supporters of community fan pages that help facilitate the enjoyment of our games and brands, White Wolf has always maintained a standard set amount of reasonable guidelines for said fan-sites to follow (The Dark Spiral/Dark Pack) that don’t infringe on our rights or the rights of our partners.
when would the rule for using guns in melee even come into play, considering you can just move away at the start of your turn and then shoot.
so unless you have someone grappled or cornered to the point that they can't physically get around you, they still have the upper hand by far.
unless you can interrupt their turn by delaying and move up to them before they shoot, but I don't know if that's a valid use of the delay action; just wanted to get some opinions, I already have a theory on how I'll deal with this in my game, but some more experienced opinions would be nice.
>>47718320
This is what 2hu actually believes.
>>47718012
>Not as bad as >>47717258 (You) this dumbass says, but also it's dumb and bland and basically a half-template stretched into a full book.
It's literally about Beasts who were from "marginalized" or "outsider" groups creating fear and misery to teach humankind a "lesson," while the Heroes who try to stop them are actually the true bad guys. It's about how it's only wrong when their enemies do it. Literally.
>>47718328
>>47718320
"You started your turn in melee, so you take the penalty"2e doesn't actually have guns penalized by Defense in melee, other than size+1
>>47718397
Only in the first draft and barely even then.
>>47718320
I just say unless you're crazy fast, then you still count as being in melee when you shoot, imposing the bonus defence against your shot.
>>47718428
>Only in the first draft and barely even then.
I wish I was as autistic as Touhoufag right now so I could start quoting the book at you to this effect.
>>47718450
Man, I was here during the early leak. I was part of the hullaballoo and bitching. In retrospect I feel like even the valid complaints were blown out of proportion, and half of it was "Matt is literally a serial killer!"
The book had the same wanky tone that Vampire had, but that was about it. Most of the "these are the gays and trannies and blacks, it's an X-men metaphor!" shit was kind of a leap. I don't entirely believe Matt when he says "if it was intentional I'd do it right", but especially in the finish product, it's nowhere near as bad as the anti-hype.
Plus, I legitimately think Heroes are interesting villains. Now more than before, now that they're not impossible to exist, since they're born instead of made through one shitty mechanic that statistically was unlikely to happen.
Beast is bland, and yeah, it's still about being a shitty person so you can call it "problematic", but it's not like it's playing a Doom mod with your classmate's faces.
>>47717258
Holy shit, you literally stole that from an OPP post.
>Beast is, to put it simply, SJW: the Crybullying. Beasts are strictly banned in all of my games.
>>47718428
I meant the defense bonus for the target, my bad
>>47718536
Heroes are decent enough, mortals with a strong connection to the Astral would be interesting once you detach them from the whole "gotta fight monsters" aspect.
Exploring their own Oneiros, making bargains with Goetia, waging wars in the Temenos over what they believe mankind should be like.
It could be great.
Like a more focussed version of Mage the Ascension.
>>47718536
Please bear in mind that I don't think it's the worst game everrrrr, or anything as extreme as that. I roll my eyes at it. I move on.
That said, the fact that the game's text spends a great deal of time rationalizing the bad behavior of Beasts, coupled with the condescending tone that they're actually the good guys even though they spend their time fucking people up, and the Heroes who try to stop these Beasts are actually just idiot jocks, coupled yet again with the fact that one of the stock Heroes is an MRA incel with a trilby, coupled finally with the fact that one of the book's mechanics disables all non-Beast supernatural effects until the target admits how wrong they are...
...does, to me, betray that SJW thought was put into the game. It reeks of struggle sessions, of presumption of superiority, and of smugness. It's not for me.
I strictly forbid the creation of these characters in my games. If you want to have some kind of revenge fantasy against jocks and normies in your RPG's, have at it. But I'm not interested. Sorry, man.
>>47718618
>Like a more focussed version of Mage the Ascension.
Feels more like Hunter: The Reckoning.
>>47718636
But they don't really say they're the good guys. In fact, their argument against Heroes in the first draft is "we have a right to exist". Even at first, Heroes were shitty people who make it all about them and hunt Beasts regardless of whether they're doing anything wrong.
It's no more "a revenge fantasy against jocks and normies" than Hunter. And "revenge" or even "jealousy" are legitimate Hunter origins!
>>47718773
>Hunter: The Reckoning
I never read about oWoD Hunter.
Did you go on raids into the subconscious to murder a powerful Goetia of Amoral Capitalism tied to your city to save it from degeneration and better the lives of the common man?
>>47718428
>"You started your turn in melee, so you take the penalty"
Not how it works.
>>47718818
No, but it's how he makes it work to avoid everyone not bothering with melee weapons and saying "I step back a few meters and shoot him in the face".
>>47718818
Does if I'm the ST.
>>47718817
No, but you don't do that as a Hero, either.
Hunter the Reckoning is about being a crazy person guided by Messengers into murdering people who are *probably* supernatural.
You ever play DmC? That whole thing where the level layout gets KILL DANTE or TRAP HIM written across it is basically how the Imbued see the world.
They also have the power to imbue mundane objects with their knock off Solar Exalt powers and do damage to monsters, sort of like Anathema.
>>47718838
There's also "there's no space, and I'm not letting you slip around the person you're fighting just because the rules don't have Attacks of Opportunity"
does anyone have a comprehensive list of power rankings for oWoD?
Doing a game of mage asscencion and curious to know what other supernaturals we can use as antagonists and allies. Looking at using demon the fallen in particular.
Can anybody recommend a good play-by-post game for C/WoD? Not owod
>>47719264
http://thefinalcrossroads.com/
>>47719264
>good
>Play-by-post
No.
>>47719155
The best one is dead now, rp.thesubnet.com
But since this is the internet:
http://www.snowsidhe.com/ResourceGuide/DLores.htm
>>47711330
>Pet Shop Boys
>Not gay
DICE
>Touhou got told he was adding nothing to the FAQ discussion
>Makes three threads about his complaints
>Everyone points out the ST exists to stop those abuses in the first place
a kek is in order
>>47719634
double kek
>>47719657
They can where all else fails, but they shouldn't have to.
>>47719676
Yeah, but when it comes to things like "I can use Steadfast on Wisdom loss", there's no reason to argue that anyone would allow that. Dave even said "use your common sense". It's also funny to see him keep linking archived 4chan threads on the forums.
Although in the one about Breaking Exceptional Luck, it's interesting to see someone *else* go all MtG Judge on him.
>>47719264
>>47719359
Seconding this
>>47719753
DaveB going 'use your common sense :^)' is scummy as fuck because he clearly doesn't give a shit about writing a good game.
Thread in question
http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/main-category/main-forum/the-new-world-of-darkness/mage-the-awakening/909046-breaking-exceptional-luck
>>47719764
Or he doesn't give a fuck about obvious bullshit?
>>47719777
>Or he doesn't give a fuck about obvious bullshit?
If something's broke, FUCKING FIX IT.
>>47719832
There's a hole.
It's an out of the way hole.
Most people will never go near this hole.
Many will never know it exists.
Why are you concerned that people might fall into this hole?
http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/main-category/main-forum/the-new-world-of-darkness/mage-the-awakening/909108-steadfast-and-automatically-succeeding-on-degeneration-rolls?p=909291#post909291
>In any case, we are never going to produce a massive list of every Condition in the game and say which do and don't apply to act of hubris rolls or spellcasting. New Conditions enter the Storytelling system almost every book. You're just going to have to use your common sense and what the Condition represents in-fiction to decide if it works or not.
"Prime is shit" is more reasonable a complaint than "I can cheat at Wisdom loss" or "I don't understand what a Skill roll is".
>>47720027
Here's what steadfast is:
Your character is confident and resolved. When you’ve
failed a roll, resolve this Condition to instead treat the action
as if you’d rolled a single success. If the roll was a chance die,
you may resolve this Condition and roll a single die instead.
Resolution: Use the Condition, as noted.
>Your character is confident and resolved
>This means it's common sense to not allow the condition to be used against degeneration
>>47708164
Of course you can play a vampire mobster. But the big thing with how Requiem changed stuff is that you don't HAVE to play a Mobster to be a necromancer.
>>47720060
It's common sense to not allow someone to use a magical spell to give themselves Steadfast to completely ignore Wisdom loss so that they can repeatedly gain Experience from doing nothing but causing Breaking Point rolls that they'll automatically succeed.
>>47720027
Why not fill the hole or put a cover over it?
>>47720075
I dont even want to be a necromancer. I actually didnt like that aspect about the Giovanni.
>>47720095
Acknowledging the systems flaws would make it flawed in their mind. People say they understand things aren't perfect, but that's kind of like people saying that everyones entitled to their own opinion. It lasts until they run into something they disagree with.
>>47720095
Because they only have so much material to work with, and covering that hole is going to leave another hole somewhere else.
>>47720120
But they're already making a FAQ and errata ANYWAY.
>>47720095
Because why do anything when the ST can do all the work? Making the ST fix the game is a time honored tradition in the hobby
>>47718536
>The book had the same wanky tone that Vampire had, but that was about it. Most of the "these are the gays and trannies and blacks, it's an X-men metaphor!" shit was kind of a leap. I don't entirely believe Matt when he says "if it was intentional I'd do it right", but especially in the finish product, it's nowhere near as bad as the anti-hype.
No. It was billed as a crossover book, and ALL the interactions with other supers were written with the Beast in a point of superiority.
>>47719601
That doesn't answer my question.
>>47720095
Why drive out to the desert and fill a hole only idiots will fall into?
>>47720110
>>47720147
It's not about acknowledging the system is flawed. Everyone acknowledges the system is flawed. It's also not about saying nothing can be perfect, so why bother.
It's about the fact that this is not the major game breaking "bug" that it's made out to be. It's a minor issue that can be solved with "eh, don't do that". There are a ton of more pertinent issues in the system. Like I said, "Prime is shit" is more of a problem than those outlandish fringe cases.
This is literally the kind of thing the Storyteller exists for.
>>47720137
Yes, and the only way to change this so that it's acceptable to Touhou and others is to change Steadfast to say "you can't use this for Breaking Points" (which as Dave points out, it may not apply anyway) or keep you from being able to grant Steadfast with magic.
The first only matters if you can grant Steadfast willy nilly, and the second is only a problem if you use Steadfast to cheat at Breaking Points to rack up Beats while sitting in your Sanctum and self-mutilating instead of doing wizard things. Neither require you to change the rules so that reasonable uses are punished.
>>47720102
Yeah. Too bad that if you wanted to be a vampire mobster in Masquerade you had to be one!
>>47720178
>It's not about acknowledging the system is flawed. Everyone acknowledges the system is flawed. It's also not about saying nothing can be perfect, so why bother.
See
>People say they understand things aren't perfect, but that's kind of like people saying that everyones entitled to their own opinion
>>47720186
Or a Ventrue works too. Or any other vampire clan. The Giovanni is one organized crime family. Not ALL organized crime.
>>47720161
All of the Stereotypes have ALWAYS been about how the faction in question is better or pities the one they're stereotyping. The Changeling Elemental quote for Mages is the laughably self-aggrandizing "Difference between them and me? I'm not cheating, I AM magic".
Even then, after everyone complained that Beast was doing the same thing every other splat does, all the Beast stereotypes went from chest thumping and pitying to "notice me, sempai~"
>>47720161
Not the guy you were talking to, but that crossover aspect was one of the things that most excited me about the game before it got leaked. If the writers showed a bit more tact and respect for the games that Beast was supposed to be complimenting, I think it wouldn't be as disliked as it is now, and maybe we would actually look forward to playing games with Beasts in our groups. Make them more of a "High Priest of the Supernatural" and less of an "Apex Monster." The former could actually be interesting if it had more mechanics for buffing up or copying other supernaturals and their abilities rather than attempting to eclipse them.
>>47720178
Aspel please go.
>>47720178
Dude, take a fucking trip or something so people can filter you. You won't have to deal with them, they won't have to deal with you, everyone will be happier.
>>47720178
>keep you from being able to grant Steadfast with magic
And that's good, because then we won't have people fucking auto-passing casting rolls just because they have Fate 2.
>>47720218
Yeah. But they were all "The Abyss? Naahting, I'm scarier than that." "Werewolf think you can fight? Yeah right." "Vampires? Pff. Weaklings."
I'm not saying the Changeling stuff is good (it isn't), but Changelings aren't supposed to get along super-duper-well with everyone because they have a magical friend-field. And then be smug about it.
>>47720243
Yeah. I have that problem at my table. A Fate mage who pulls himself down to one die for all ritual spells, and just walks out of any problem because he uses Steadfast.
We've talked about it, but what we'd have to do to remove this kind of cheese is basically remove the entire Fate Arcanum.
I never thought I'd miss Mage 1e.
>>47720268
Nah, the 2hu trick from from the last threads showed you can get down to -5 and use one of the Fate boons to make that 1 die which you can then Steadfast into a success.
>>47720268
Have you pointed this out on the Forums? If they have it on "official" channels I can't imagine that they can really ignore it, especially when its shown to be abused.
>>47720252
>The Abyss? Naahting, I'm scarier than that.
Oh the looks on their faces when their Lair ends up part of the Twisted Maze due to Scelestus fuckery will be priceless.
>>47720268
That's the point of mage. Why even play Mage if your not going to use the power?
>>47720166
Not that guy, but the only thing I know about Pet Shop Boys is that they have a huge gay following. Heard it in the news when they came to my country a few years back.
>>47720252
Like I said, *everyone* is like that. Even then, most of them felt like Mage stereotypes. The sort of "oh, I know all about this, I'm an expert".
Because Beast is a Chuuni splat.
>>47720268
Or "you can't use Steadfast on Spells or Breaking Points"? Or even just "as the ST I'm asking you to please not do that".
>>47720285
I can certainly see the argument for "you literally can't fail anything" being frustrating. But the answer isn't to rip out an entire Arcanum.
>>47720314
>Or "you can't use Steadfast on Spells or Breaking Points"? Or even just "as the ST I'm asking you to please not do that".
Yeah. The Breaking Point stuff they figured out on their own. It's the rest of the stuff the guy does.
>>47720283
>tfw the beast just rolls with it and becomes an existential threat to the world
>>47720460
Isn't that kind of what an Apex is? I haven't seen the final beast book, but that is what that Darker Days podcast made it seem.
>>47720460
But when the Maze is remove by a Guardian, then the Lair (and hopefully the Beast) will be excised from reality.
>>47720612
I don't see why it would work that way. Then again, I'm not sure how the situation presented >>47720283 would work.
Although I feel that "existential threat to the world" is along the lines of endgame boss, as opposed to something one chick can casually solve.
>>47720075
The original clanbook says that they aren't really involved with the mob directly, they just keep tabs on the cosa nostra with a few scattered moles.
Giovanni are more like an Italian necrophiliac Addams Family than mobsters
>>47720817
>Italian necrophiliac Addams Family
So they're just like the regular Addams family, but Italian?
>>47720178
>The first only matters if you can grant Steadfast willy nilly, and the second is only a problem if you use Steadfast to cheat at Breaking Points to rack up Beats while sitting in your Sanctum and self-mutilating instead of doing wizard things.
Burning Wheel has a wonderful little rule wherein characters cannot gain experience in tasks for doing things that are not plot-relevant. With regards to learning new spells I believe the exact line is "wizards can't sit around in their tower lighting their couch on fire." It's a nice principle and one that I try to bring to all my games when I can.
>>47720467
I just got the idea of an Apex that somehow entered a symbiotic relationship with it and can open Primordial Pathways to the Chamber it has infected to steal pieces of reality. Slowly it is becoming one with the Twisted Maze and the Abyss, turning it not just into a phenomenon, but a reality in it's own right. Who knows what will happen when it steals enough of the world?
>>47721196
I feel like explicitly stating something like that isn't something a game should do in the first place. Apparently I'm wrong about it being a necessity, though.
I mean, the section in the book about "can't you farm Beats? Sure, mages do it all the time" gives examples that are plot relevant, like a Mastigos apprentice being made to confront their fears by a mentor. But people take it out of context to just argue they get 8 beats per day during downtime, or use it to justify the equivalent of lighting their couch on fire.
>>47721281
Roll with it bruh. Could be really fucking spooky when creatures from this new reality start making an appearance, or beings like the God Machine take an interest and start trying to place infrastructure inside of it only for it to warp into something entirely different.
An idea I had for a Mehket would be a Fixer. You know when you watch documentaries? Usually locals that know about the local areas most of the time a journalist themselves? For a world hopping kind of game that might be fun.
>>47721313
with people like 2hu, you have to put those rules in or else you get "well the book doesn't say I CAN'T."
>the RAW shouldn't match RAI sperg is at it again.
>>47722214
Oh, you need simple concepts like "skill rolls" and "gaining experience requires you to actually play the game" explained to you? I'm so, so sorry. It must have been very difficult for your mother when the doctor suggested she get an abortion, but look at you, all grown up and able to use the internet.
>>47722231
>just come up with your own rules if you dont like these ones!
What level of Life do i need to stop a heart?
>>47722250
That's a strawman, and you know it. Come on now, you know that's not a reasonable argument. No one is saying to houserule the entire game here. No one is even saying that the rules are somehow perfect and shouldn't be different.
But these are things that shouldn't even need to be explained. They're basic concepts. They're the kind of complaints that can ONLY exist in a hypothetical scenario where the ST is a mindless robot.
Do you honestly believe that even the most pushover of an ST would let you ignore the game and have an infinite loop of XP gain? Do you really need an official definition for "skill roll"? We're not talking about whether Chaos Mastery should be nerfed. We're talking about whether simple and obvious things need to be spelled out to the reader. Making it clear that you need to actually *play* the game to gain Experiences is about on par with explaining that you can't walk through walls just because the game doesn't say walls are impassible. That the arguments get to the point of quibbling over the definition of a skill roll, or arguing that since it says resolving *the* Condition prematurely ends the spell, multiple Conditions must clearly not be subject to that. Several of the posts repeatedly argued that you could use Steadfast and Informed on the same roll, despite both their wording and simple logic saying otherwise.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ypaXNVPkSg
This is what all these arguments start to sound like.
These aren't things that can be fixed with some rules patch because the problem isn't with the rules.
>>47722317
>But these are things that shouldn't even need to be explained. They're basic concepts. They're the kind of complaints that can ONLY exist in a hypothetical scenario where the ST is a mindless robot.
>Steadfast can't be used to resist degeneration rolls.
>Come on, this is COMMON sense!
The rules need to be clarified. There is no reason not to clarify rules when they're unclear and could be clarified. Stop defending the developers with your "muh ST will solve this" and "white room white room" bullshit and let people keep pointing out the problems until the developers do their job. The system isn't perfect and talking about the flaws hurts your feelings, we get it, but some of us STs here don't want to waste our time making arbitrary judgements about the core system when the rules could have just been made clear in the first place.
Fuck off.
