Not Weekend Edition
>Tabletop/P&P RPGs
[Scrollhammer - Tabletop Wargame] http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Scrollhammer_2nd_Edition
Discussion in #Scrollhammer (irc.thisisnotatrueending.com (port 6667))
[UESRPG 1e + other TES RPGs] http://www.mediafire.com/uesrpg
Discussion in #UESRPG (same server)
>Lore Resources
[The Imperial Library] http://www.imperial-library.info/
[/r/teslore] http://www.reddit.com/r/teslore/
[UESP/Lore] http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Main_Page
[Pocket Guide to the Lore] https://docs.google.com/document/d/1AtsWXZKVqB4Q825_SwINY6z4_9NaGknXgeOknOCDuCU/edit
[Elder Lore Podcast] http://www.elderlore.wordpress.com/
[How to Become a Lore Buff] http://forums.bethsoft.com/topic/1112211-how-to-become-a-lore-buff/
>General Rules
No waifus except Therana please.
Keep the MK/Lady N related squabbling to a minimum.
Previous Kalpa >>47230771
Should probably link to this in the last one.
Elder Scrolls VI Argonia when?
>>47282894
Already did
>>47282911
never
well this was clearly a mistake
>>47282863
There wasn't really much discussion last thread. If someone has a topic, shoot, otherwise this will just stagnate like the last.
>>47282863
>Not Weekend Edition
I don't mind that, actually.
Let's post maps.
>>47283396
Why do people insist on Tamriel being this small?
>>47282911
*Hammerfell
>>47283452
Can't say I really mind, the games should be as big as possible while still having enough detail.
Arena and daggerfall were mostly randomly generated, morrowind had a good scale, oblivion was horribly underscaled, skyrim was just slightly underscaled
>>47283396
I do like maps
>>47283452
>UK is Hammerfell
Every fucking time.
>>47283489
No, I mean with the image I posted, with Tamriel being the size of Europe.
>>47283524
That's not small in any way
>>47283685
It's small from an irl perspective
>>47283708
No, in Tamriel people from Morrowind know about Alinor and its people, and there's an Empire capable of ruling the entire continent. In the real world China or Japan were seen as fairy tales (more or less like Akavir) and the Roman Empire struggled to mantain order in its territory, more or less like Tamriel's Empire.
Hell, we didn't even realize we had discovered America for many years, thinking it was India.
>>47283796
>No, in Tamriel people from Morrowind know about Alinor and its people, and there's an Empire capable of ruling the entire continent. In the real world China or Japan were seen as fairy tales (more or less like Akavir) and the Roman Empire struggled to mantain order in its territory, more or less like Tamriel's Empire
And this isn't what makes the Empire so interesting in the first place? It's like the entire known world fell under the control of a single monarch. It also makes Septim's and Reman's conquests way more impressive.
You really want me to believe that a place the size of Europe somehow managed to allow for races to remain completely segregated from each other for millenia?
People seem to forget that even Daggerfall had a timescale.
>>47283452
I honestly don't really care exactly how big Tamriel is. It's kind of weird, because I feel like I should care, but I don't.
Never found the question to be very interesting.
>>47282911
>implying Bethesda has the balls to do Black Marsh
>>47284310
This.
They'll just continue to do human provinces indefinitely.
>>47283930
>races to remain completely segregated from each other for millenia
First, this isn't true at all (Chimer, Dwemer, Aldmer, Nedes...) Second, the the more reclused races are adapted to their provinces (Argonian and Khajiit) And third, genetics work differently in Tamriel.
>>47284326
They'll butcher the lore of Elsweyr with cat jokes and meme sugar at some point.
I like this map because Daggerfall is where it was in Daggerfall.
>>47284437
We don't even know if there's actual genetics as we consider them. It sounds crazy, but when just about everything is explained using magic and being made up of ancient spirits, why wouldn't all the races be just magically created without DNA and stuff too?
>>47284516
What's living on these red isles? Are they explored yet?
And wtf is pyandonea,this is literally the first time I see it on any TES map
>>47284593
The red isles are Yokuda, the ancient homeland of the Redguards that is now lost. It's on maps in the lore, but it's probably from another kalpa and doesn't actually exist in this one.
Pyandonea is the land of the Maormer, the Sea Elves. It's not exactly supported in the lore outside of ESO and a small landmass seen below Tamriel on a globe in Daggerfall.
>>47284656
How can Yokunda be from other Kalpa if Redguards are not?
>>47284437
>First, this isn't true at all (Chimer, Dwemer, Aldmer, Nedes...) Second
For the most part, it is definitely true. Just because Chimer and Dwemer inhabit the same modern region does not mean they lived together, it's made pretty clear that they both had their own completely distinct realms.
I mean fuck, Tamriel's so fucking big that its Elven settlers not only developed their own cultures, but became their own distinct races.
>Second, the the more reclused races are adapted to their provinces (Argonian and Khajiit)
Yes because a desert the size of fucking bulgaria is clearly impenetrable.
Tamriel does not work at this tiny scale.
>>47284699
But they are - they simply Made Way. They used their sword magic to cut their way into the next kalpa.
>>47284813
So Bethesda literally took random anime,painted every character black and made this Redguard origin story? This is kinda cool.
Too cool not to be retconned in the next game
>>47284891
Redguards are pretty much Persian Samurai. Too bad they don't really match with my playstyle. Might do one in Oblivion once I get through Daggrerfall and Morrowind. No curved swords though.
>>47284557
That's what I meant with geneticts
>>47284557
this is weird. We don't even knowwhere did gravity came from
>>47282911
why even look forward to it, Bethesda's never gonna make a great TES game again.
>>47285286
>Peryite's Foundation is the Falling Rock
>>47284516
Is Pyandonea really that big? I always thought it was simply a small Island, but here it has similiar size to Summerset Isles.
>>47285873
Well, a large enough number of people live there to have seriously challenged the Altmer several times, so I'd say it's plausible.
>>47286030
I imagined them living in the Waterworld-style settlements.
>>47284656
>It's not exactly supported in the lore outside of ESO and a small landmass seen below Tamriel on a globe in Daggerfall
>what is PGE1
>what is PGE3
>>47285873
Pyandonea has never even been given an actual shape, really. That map depicts a fanon version of Pyandonea that people not just seem to assume is canon.
pic related is the Daggerfall map, that landmass below Sumurset is supposedly Pyandonea.
Doesn't even look like the general image thrown around, really.
>>47286086
And then there is this map which presents Pyandonea at a much smaller scale (which I kind of prefer really).
>>47286121
But it makes Yokunda huge, which is definitely against the lore as we know it.
And why is it that some people make Akavir tiny, and other people make it an entire continent?
>>47286156
>But it makes Yokunda huge, which is definitely against the lore as we know it.
Look at the map again. Yokuda is presented at its correct size, just with the sunken portions also shown.
>And why is it that some people make Akavir tiny, and other people make it an entire continent?
Because we have not been presented jack shit on what the continents actually are.
The image I posted here >>47286121 is really the closest thing we have to an 'official' scale-map (it was created by LadyN based on discussions she had with Kirkbride).
>>47286252
But how do know that any of it remains? For all we know, the islands depicted on the maps were all there was of Yokuda. Remember, as far as we can tell, last kalpa seemed to be more of a water world - it's not too strange to think that the Redguards might have only had a few islands, that all together are a fair size.
>>47286346
iirc redguard has sailors visiting the remains of Yokuda
According to NPCs in Anvil, ships still go to what's left of Yokuda.
>>47286387
You mean the story detailed here?
http://www.imperial-library.info/content/lord-vivecs-sword-meeting-cyrus-restless
Because even though that's really all we have to go off of with what Yokuda is like, even at the very beginning the teller of the story admits it might not be a true story at all.
>>47285286
I got you covered famalampaitachi
There's also this map.
>>47286580
He's talking about the game, I think.
What would have to happen for maormer to become a playable race?
>>47286670
Maormer aren't canon
>>47286691
But they are. For like a while now.
>>47286568
But the Redguards are from the last kalpa, right? So why can their homeland still exist in this one?
It's sort of like how the Altmer still look for Aldmeris, despite us knowing that it can't still exist because it's a lingering memory of before they were mortal, physical things.
>>47286708
Maormer aren't canon and neither are ESO.
You came to the wrong thread if you believe it is, friend.
>>47286708
Nothing is canon, anon. It's all in your mind.
>>47286723
Are you serious? Maormer have been in the canon since long before ESO you retard.
>>47286753
NEVER SHOULD'VE COME HERE
>>47286723
>he thinks that eso came up with them
They've existed since morrowind
>>47286750
Your face is canon!
>>47286792
Since Redguard, actually.
And Orgnum since Arena
So this fat tub of love was hanging out with all around badass Divath Fyr who took his own flesh to make a bunch of lady clones. Couldn't Divath have used the same process to make Dwarf clones and save an entire race.
>Nir became pregnant, but before she gave birth, Padomay returned, professing his love for Nir. She told him that she loved only Anu, and Padomay beat her in rage. Anu returned, fought Padomay, and cast him outside Time. Nir gave birth to Creation, but died from her injuries soon after. Anu, grieving, hid himself in the sun and slept.
>Meanwhile, life sprang up on the twelve worlds of creation and flourished. After many ages, Padomay was able to return to Time. He saw Creation and hated it. He swung his sword, shattering the twelve worlds in their alignment. Anu awoke, and fought Padomay again. The long and furious battle ended with Anu the victor. He cast aside the body of his brother, who he believed was dead, and attempted to save Creation by forming the remnants of the 12 worlds into one -- Nirn, the world of Tamriel. As he was doing so, Padomay struck him through the chest with one last blow. Anu grappled with his brother and pulled them both outside of Time forever.
Why are we supposed to support Padomaic races over Anuic races again? Padomay himself just sounds like a dick.
>>47286854
Without growing up with dwemer culture wouldn't they just be pre curse velothi?
>>47286854
It was probably long and arduous process, and the genetic similarity would lead to inbreeding and issues from there, making the effort not worth it.
Besides, even if they existed physically, the knowledge and culture are long dead, which might be for the best.
>>47286854
>implying it wouldnt just create a bunch of corprus monstrosities
>>47286938
>implying divath wouldn't "cure" his corpus after "curing" the Nerevar
>>47286970
>implying you don't know that the cure only works on the Nerevarine
>>47286854
If it's anything like real cloning, there wouldn't be a female to put the dwemer babies in because there aren't any dwemer females left.
If it's just magical cloning, probably because corpus was messing with shit. Or maybe Yagrum didn't want clone kids - his whole race was dead, better to let it all pass on than attempt to bring new dwemer into the world that would know nothing of the old ways.
Alduin was not the world eater.
>Many scholars of Alduin state that he is the ender of kalpas and destroyer of worlds, but I would like to examine how this might not be the case.
>Perhaps Alduin was not the World Eater, but instead one who would one day become the World Eater, just as the Nereverine was not the Nereverine, but became him.
>Contemporary theory suggests that Alduin is an aspect of Akatosh which devours creation at the end of time.
>This raises the status of Alduin not only above dragons and mortals, but over the aedric and daedric deities themselves.
>This status seems inflated.
>>47287073
My thesis is supported by the status and behavior of Alduin and the claims made about him.
>Firstly, Alduin is stated to come from Akatosh, the king and ruler of Mundus. The problem with this lies in the fact that Akatosh rules by nature, not devours. The destructive nature is manifested in Mehrunes Dagon, not Akatosh. >Similarly, Alduin and his dragons do not devour when they enter the scene. Instead, they perch in high places and rule, just as they had during the times of the dragon cult.
>This business of devouring the world goes against the dragon's Akatoshian nature.
>>47284310
Diddn't the Argonians conquer a chunk of Morrowind?
Start their and you can slowly make your way into the horror swap
>>47287117
In order to unravel this mystery, one must explore the events surrounding Alduin's return and answer two predominant questions:
>1. If Alduin's purpose was to eat the world, why didn't he? If his purpose was to not eat the world, what was his motive?
>2. If Akatosh wanted the world to end, why bless the Last Dragonborn? If he did not want the world to end, why did he create Alduin? What is Akatosh's motive?
>>47287117
Aduin's Motive: To Ascend via the Walking Ways
It is my belief that Alduin was created in order to rule and preserve Mundus. This role is parallel to that of the stones in the Towers of Tamriel, suggesting that Alduin himself was the stone of Snow Throat. The relationship between stone and king has always been close, and the cataclysm that results in a stone's shattering is always due to a king's loss of control over the stone, followed by a violent retrieval of it. This was manifested in Daggerfall when the underking lost the Mantella, and retrieved it shortly before it's destruction. It was manifested again when Nerevar lost control of the heart of Lorkhan, only to reclaim it through his incarnation shortly before it's sundering. The king, Martin Septim, demonstrated this again, when he lost the Amulet of Kings and reclaimed it shortly before he destroyed it. These prior examples illustrate and insinuate that Alduin was both the king and the stone, who lost himself in the time wound, only to return and reclaim himself before destroying himself ultimately. This was the first walking way.
>>47287117
I don't fully understand what I'm sharing with you, but look at this.
http://www.imperial-library.info/content/etada-eight-aedra-eat-dreamer
An essential thing to take away is that Akatosh is fragmented, and is deathly afraid of his opposite.
>>47287154
When Alduin ruled in ancient times, he was confronted by Tongues who had created a forbidden Thuum. This Thuum contained within it the hatred in the hearts of mortals, and made its hearer accept mortality. This was especially violent for the immortal dragons. It is important to examine the nature of this "Dragonrend" however. Like all Thuum, Dragonrend was a type of tonal magic that stems from the heart and self of the shouter. Due to the Lorkhanic nature of the Tongues and their Lorkhanic hearts, combined with the exceedingly Lorkhanic nature of the Dragonrend Thuum (which insists mortality upon the immortal, and which shouts "NO!" at the existence which the immortals placed on the mortals), these tongues recreated the affects of Numiduim upon Alduin during that climactic fight at the throat of the world. This was the second walking way.
>>47287166
The third, and perhaps most important dynamic occurred during the same battle. When Dragonrend proved to be insufficient, the ancient Tongues used an elder Scroll to send Alduin forward in time. This was not an attempt to dump Alduin into the lap of a future generation, but a method used to unmake Alduin himself. Alduin was, by his core nature, a ruler of time. By sending him forward in time without consent, the Tongues forced Alduin to contradict his own nature. This endeavor should have caused Alduin to zero-sum, just as many had when they faced the contradiction of existing within a dream. When faced with such a contradiction, the only way to overcome is through force of will, declaring "I AM" in the face of the contradiction. The fact that Alduin even survived the Time Wound suggests that Alduin was able to achieve CHIM. It is also possible that Alduin used CHIM when he resurrected the other dragons with his Thuum, just as Talos used CHIM through Thuum for his Red Legions in Cyrodil. This was the third walking way.
>>47287186
The fourth way involves the very controversial enantiomorph. Scholars today have a difficult time studying this concept, seeing an enantiomorph in every conflict. It is perhaps important to note here that a proper enantiomorph involves the hopeful ascendant to play the role of Witness, King, and Rebel. While enantiomorphs exist in Tamrielic history, only those who play all three roles reach ascendance (such as Tiber through TALOS and Vivec though ALMSIVI). Alduin played the role of witness at Helgen. Being wounded by the Dragonrend and Time Wound, Alduin witnessed the king dragonborn about to be dismembered by the rebel Empire. Alduin also played the role of King during the ancient battle at the throat of the world. This is why Alduin did not kill the Dragonborn at Helgen or at Kynesgrove, he needed TLDB to use the elder scroll to view the ancient battle (and thereby being temporarily blinded) while he played the role of the witness. Alduin then tried to play the role of the Rebel at the Throat of the world against TLDB and the witnessing Parthanax. This was the fourth walking way.
>>47287198
After the encounter at the throat, Alduin entered Sovengarde to devour the souls of the dead. This was not a way for him to regain lost power, but rather the fifth walking way: soul stacking. Talos was created by soul stacking three Shezarrs through violence, and ALMSIVI was a similar stacking of three souls touched by the heart of Lorkhan (again, through violence). In order to walk like them, Alduin had to devour and absorb the Souls of Shor, found in his followers in Sovengarde. By consuming these souls, we see Alduin walking the fifth way, while also finally changing his nature to the Eater which is his namesake.
>>47287032
>the clones of divayth are female
>I wonder if it's possible to make female clones...
>>47287214
Akatosh's Motive: To Absorb Alduin like he did Martin Septim, and expand his influence over Mundus as he did on Nirn.
Like Alduin, Martin Septim also found himself walking several of the ways (perhaps I will discuss this at a later time). At the climax of the Oblivion Crisis, Martin Septim, a Dragonborn, shattered the Amulet of Kings. The Amulet of Kings was a stone containing Akatosh's blood inside a gem that was made of Lorkhan's dried blood. Akatosh's blood inside of Lorkhan's blood, smashed by a mortal dragonborn, alongside numerous dead dragonborn souls which were also housed within. The climax of the Alduin crisis ended the exact same way. Alduin, the aspect of Akatosh was housed inside Sovengarde, the realm of Lorkhan. Then the Last Dragonborn crushed him, alongside numerous dead dragonborn souls which were also housed within.
>>47283489
Morrowind, Oblivion, and Skyrim had literally the same map scale you fucking retard.
>>47287073
>>47287117
Alduin was present in at least the previous kalpa. He in fact inflicted the aspect of destruction onto Mehrunes Dagon in this kalpa for trying to hide bits of creation that alduin was trying to eat in the last. While I like the theory that the Alduin in skyrim was something of a larval form of the actual World Eater, his eventual double apotheosis would probably not involve Dagon.
Additionally, Alduin or the World Eater is the other aspect of Akatosh, who possesses duel nature of maintainer and destroyer.
>>47287073
>>47287117
>>47287138
>>47287154
>>47287166
>>47287186
>>47287198
>>47287214
>>47287238
For all the things people hate Skyrim for, they did the geography beautifully.
The frozen marshes, the rocky cliffs to the west, the autumn leaves and aspens of The Reach, the Icelandic hotsprings to the east, the southern steppes, and finally the frozen north.
Much better than Oblivion's geography, or the previous description which were "It's all snow and mountains.". I'd say Skyrim's tied with Morrowind in that regard.
>>47287214
I really like that theory, although I doubt all these coincidences were intentional on Bethesda's part.
>>47286691
>>47286723
Maormer were in lore before ESO
>>47287568
I can agree with that. The rocky cliff roads, huge untouched forests, and waterfalls/streams were beautiful. Honestly, the single thing I remember most about Skyrim was seeing the waterfall near what I vaugly remember as being Cradlecrush Rock.
>>47286723
Maromer have been a thing since Reguard lad.
>>47287568
I honestly love the forests of Falkreath and the plains of Windhelm. I even have some fondness for Morthal's swamps, and Solitude's mountains. If the entire game was like Dawnstar and Winterhold, I think it would be really disappointing.
However, I don't think Oblivion's geography was too bad. You had a pair of mountain ranges, a few different kinds of forests, and even a tropical swamp area. Oblivion's problem comes from the fact that overall it feels empty - not as many fallen trees or treestumps, no real variety in the dirt. The towns were ten times better than anything else it brought to the table. But it at least feels a bit bigger than Skyrim, and it doesn't feel like all the dungeons and caves are right next to each other - even if half of them were just grey, boring dungeons.
>>47287263
>Skyrim was smaller than Oblivion
Really?
Guess I'm no used to oblivion it doesn't seem big anymore
>>47287568
Too bad it has the worst most boring dungeons in the series by quite a large margin, which is where you'll easily spend at least 50% of your playtime.
Same problem everyone bitched about back with Fallout 3 even thought it was nowhere near as bad there. All the well crafted environments in the world don't really matter when you're just going to end up running past it to go wander around in a virtually indistinguishable series of motherfucking metro tunnels or Draugr ruins.
Except now everything has been dumbed down to a linear hallway. Blasting any sense of exploration in the knees, reducing the thought to process to zero, and driving the ennui to an unprecedented level.
>>47287936
I only really notice it when I look at a map with dungeons and other locations on it - a lot more is squeezed together than in Oblivion.
Like, look at this section of the Oblivion map...
>>47288054
...and then this Skyrim map section. Notice how much closer all the dungeons are? It might just be a difference in zoom, but I tried to make it about equal.
>>47288052
We must either be talking about different games, or your absolute rage has clouded your view and turned everything into some sick twisted parody of itself.
>>47286723
You're embarrasing yourself, and it's even more pathetic because you're acting like /tgesg/'s voice
>>47288150
I had more fun getting lost for hours in Daggerfall's randomly generated mess and shitty mouse spazing combat. I had more fun looking at Morrowind's brown textures. I even had more fun with Oblivion.
Skyrim's linear dungeons and 3 whole puzzles made me want to just lie down and die.
>>47288277
It is sad when one of the most complex puzzles that I remember in Skyrim is 'using a shout to quickly run past stones.' Otherwise it's matching images in the right order.
Oblivion honestly didn't have any good puzzles though. The only interesting thing I remember is one dungeon with two silver arrows that you had to fire at a pair of jewels to open some doors.
>>47288410
To be honest puzzles are shit and have no business in ttrpgs or videogames. They are binary, you either get it or you don't. If they are difficult they are impassable roadblocks and you end up googleing the solution. If they are easy they are just pointless wastes of time.
>>47288410
There was a puzzle in the mages guild quest line where you had to decipher some ayleid panels using an incomplete reference text in order to figure out which spells to cast on a door to make it open. Can't think of any others myself though
>>47288052
>>47288277
Morrowind had the worst dungeons in the series tbqh
>>47286718
It might very well be that the islands, mere ruins of their homeland, are still reachable.
In Songs of the Return, the crew of the crew of the Krilot Lok sail from Atmora and westwards.
>"In time, these perpetual wanderers came upon sights fearsome and terrible. Entire kingdoms of men beyond their recognition, skin charred like overcooked meat."
This would be way before the Redguards arrived on Tamriel, so the idea might be that they sailed to Yokuda. Or maybe not, it might all be wrong. There's also some speak of Yokuda in Father Of The Niben.
If you ask Ulfgar Fog-Eye, Anvil's lighthouse keeper, he'll tell you this:
>"Ships sail from Anvil harbor for ports-of-call in Hammerfell, Summerset Isle, Yokuda, and the Western Isles."
>>47286723
I sincerely hope this is bait.
>>47286854
>implying anyone wants the dwemer back
>>47288052
>Too bad it has the worst most boring dungeons in the series by quite a large margin
You have never played Arena.
>>47288598
so much this
>>47289098
Arena's dungeons aren't that bad. The main quest ones are actually pretty good.
>>47289132
Oh, I like the main quest dungeons. They're not the problem.
The problems are the long, randomly generated dungeons you'll have to go through if you decide to go look for artefacts. They're so incredibly boring.
>>47288598
Half-Life 2 does them well, where a simple physics puzzle serves the purpose of breaking the action to prevent combat fatigue. This is prevalent in the canals of HL2 where there are a number of chases and hostile situations where the player can easily suffer combat fatigue. Each puzzle also helps intuit a solution to further puzzles, in keeping with a theme by introducing a simple mechanic, and then adding levels of complexity to it based on the rules set out by the game's physics engine and the rules by which you can interact with objects.
An example of this done badly is Halo 1's level, The Library. A long sequence of repetitive combat with little in the way of breaking up the action, which was immediately preceded by intensive combat and starts immediately with intensive combat. There are few breaks in the action and those that do happen feature no interaction with the environment, simply waiting for Guilty Spark to open the door for you, usually initiating combat in a locked room for the intervening interval.
>>47289188
>The problems are the long, randomly generated dungeons you'll have to go through if you decide to go look for artefacts. They're so incredibly boring
True, the artifact dungeons are kind of annoying, especially since the quests basically force you to go through multiple of what basically amounts to the same dungeon. But the way some of the Wilderness dungeons are set up is also interesting. They vary in size a fair amount and some give the appearance of small family crypts to even haunted houses.
#lore
>>47289318
The little crypts are fun places to check out when you're at a low level. Or until you realise that simply going around cities at nighttime is a more efficient way to level up and kill stuff.
The bad thing about the artefact dungeon is that they have no identity or point to them. They're by and large just randomly generated mazes, and that loses its charm when they don't even try to represent anything.
I spent a lot of time running around Rihad (I think) at nighttime, doing quests from tavern to tavern, while slaying thieves and lizardmen inbetween.
>>47289398
>Or until you realise that simply going around cities at nighttime is a more efficient way to level up and kill stuff
Really? Night-time cities always seemed pretty tame to me, and aren't the spawns generally pretty low xp? I can't say I remember being attacked by anything higher than wizards in the cities, and iirc you can't rest in cities.
>>47288598
I think they work well in most videogames because the correct thing to do can be found out - the world is something that you can see, the evidence has to be there, ect.
TTRPGs it is shit though, because not only do you have to use your imagination, but you have to get into the mindset of a GM who probably thinks the answer is obvious.
>>47288794
Tribunal kinda made up for it. The real funny part was finding the dungeons.
>>47289512
>Really?
It is when you're at a low level. Besides, there's a good deal of quests that just involve delivering/escorting something from one tavern to another, which net some gold and experience. Do those at nighttime, as you get both monster loot and experience, as well as quest rewards. Resting isn't an issue, since you're essentially always popping in and out of taverns.
It stops being useful after a while, but I seem to remember it working just alright as I prepared for Fang Lair. Once I started doing main quests, pretty much stopped doing any other quests entirely, except for getting artefacts. And I only got about three of those.
>>47289574
There is a fair amount wrong with that gif
>>47289645
Mind explaining it to me? I find it hard to follow after a point.
>>47289667
The entire gif? or just what's wrong with it?
>>47289574
>tiny colovian estates
But that's totally wrong.
>>47289702
More like what's wrong with it, yeah.
>>47290512
Well, too start
>Late Merethic
The Nords didn't land at Haafingar, they landed at Hsaarik (winterhold).
>1E 10
Orsinium is formed for no reason, despite it probably having been formed in the eighth-ninth century
>1E 240
Nords are shown owning land they should not have gained until at least 1E 290, Morrowind is supposed to be completely owned save for Vvardenfell.
>1E 242
Instead of the Nords owning Nibenay as they are supposed to, Alessian Empire randomly gains Nordic territories for some reason
>1E 361
Colovian Estates are tiny for some reason despite them canonicly reaching out as far as Falkreath (at least during some periods). The only Alessian territory in Colovia should be Sancre Tor.
>1E 416
The Nords should not control territories in High Rock at this point
>1E 477
Skyrim still holds the Western Reach and for some reason continues to hold it for years. Direnni Hegemony is supposed to have spread deep into Hammerfell and Skyrim at this point.
>1E 478
Alessian Empire expansion randomly stops at High Rocks border despite them having actually pushed all the way to Glenumbra Moors (far western shore of High Rock).
Skyrim falls under Alessian vassalage sometime around this point but falls out quickly after the battle.
>1E 498
Complete misinterpretation of Wulfharth reclaiming Skyrim's lands
>1E 700
The inner sea not existing before Sun's Death is a lie.
>1E 980
Orsinium was in the wrong spot the whole time
>1E 1029
I have no idea what the fuck is going on here. Hestra is likely supposed to admit Colovia into the Alessian Empire in this year (and high rock according to ESO)
>1E 2703
Reman ruled over both Skyrim and High Rock before the Empire even formed
>1E 2920
The Reman Empire never managed to control all of Resdayn
>2E 430
Rimmen there for no reason
>2E 862
Septim Empire formed? No build up from Falkreath to Colovia to Nibenay.
>2E 864
Septim apparently conquers everything this year despite him not having done that.
>>47292747
There are a lot more things I would complain about but I really don't feel like getting into that stuff.
The ending of this thread shall be ALMSIVI
>>47286252
I just don't understand making Akavir small.
It's repeatedly invaded Tamriel with some amount of success, and is apparently at least as diverse from what we know of it. I'd reckon it's at least half the size.
>>47295353
4 races vs Tamriel's 10+
>>47295403
Looked at from an outside POV, Tamriel might be seen to have 4 races: men, elves, cat people, and lizard people.
>>47295445
That's a good point, aside from the orcs would seem pretty different from elves.
For all we know Akavir is its own Arena.
>tfw you have been reading nietzsche
>tfw you suddenly understand Love like you never have before
>tfw you see that in a twist of perfect irony it was their slavish devotion to their "gods" of logic and reason that destroyed their dwemer
>>47296473
Dwemer were right though. They didn't follow neither the elven liar gods nor the asshole demiurge, instead choosing to say "fuckyou" to all the Universe and do their own thing.
>>47296873
But their own thing sucked.
>>47296473
I kind of doubt that - TES lore does take inspiration from a number of sources, but I doubt they'd delve too deeply into existentialist philosophy, especially when belief is integral to existence in TES in some ways - I don't think anyone pulled a Descartes and had to ask if they existed, otherwise they probably zero-summed.
>>47296895
It only sucked in that they ended up all dying in the end and becoming stuck in Numidium. Otherwise, they had a pretty powerful civilization.
>>47296895
They had a good thing going, and don't forget their own thing will go back and stomp the ever-loving shit out of everyone else's things.
>>47296873
They chose nothing. There was no "own thing", they denied life and rejected the world and got exactly the nothing they sought. Only the truly godless who Loves by choice and not by proof or by command can face nothingness and rejoice.
>>47297020
The one who can achieve CHIM is the one who can "pull a Descartes", realise that reason alone has no reassurance or solace to offer him, realise that his existence is not knowable, that nothing is knowable, yet then choose life anyway, because he Loves himself and he Loves life and he Loves existence and needs no comfort from reason to stand by his Love and his conviction.
I'm thinking of an image with michael kirkbride on a starry background gazing benevolently at a lorefag saying something like "at last I truly see". Anyone have the image I'm thinking of?
>>47297850
Make it yourself it'll only take a couple minutes
>>47298293
I'm sure it already exists
Thalmor are asleep, post Talos
>>47298869
I play ESO and get triggered everytime I hear "by the Eight!", I know it's the second era, but still...
>>47288054
>>47288075
My biggest beef with the TES games (and this is just a technical video game limitation, I understand) is that there is so much landmarks packed together in a single space. You can't walk two feet without seeing a ruin, settlement, shrine, mine, cave, etc off in the near distance. I think there are actually too many points of interests. I'd like to walk around for miles and just see empty wilderness.
>>47298931
I don't like your idea
>>47298931
That would be nice and all if we could have huge maps, but we can't.
Plus, from a gameplay point of view, having a whole bunch of nothing means the player gets bored quickly of traveling by foot, and having 400 wolves pop out at them until they find a dungeon.
>>47298895
Those fuckers are forgetting Reman
Was Corprus a disease or a blessing?
>>47300043
It's a blessing that mortals can't handle and so becomes a terrible disease.
>>47300043
Magical radiation poisoning. The Heart of Lorkhan was basically a nuclear reactor of mana, and neither Dagoth nor the Tribunal were actually nuclear engineers. Shit was leaking Alteration magic over the whole island.
>>47300162
Basically this, but not Alteration magic. The mortal body could not handle the raw power of the Heart and therefore just starts to deform.
>>47300162
Why are you so sure Dagoth didn't know what he was doing?
>>47300514
He wore a mask and nothing else
>>47301279
Do you think if we took off his mask, that he would die?
>>47301432
It would be extremely painful
>>47301432
Dagoth Ur
>>47301432
Why is there a skull, horns, and red hair?
>>47301279
That mask was part of him, it's how he dreamed himself.
>>47301663
You're a big god.
>>47301432
Is this concept art for Skywind? It's got the vibe.
>>47301785
4u
>>47301909
Yeah, it's Skywind. I'm not sure how I feel about the hair, but I like the rest of it.
>>47301432
>mask not glorious and golden
The fuck is this shit?
>>47302067
It doesn't really appeal to me. He looks like a frozen corpse; if they'd replace the blue hues (including the loincloth) with red it'd be much better. And as said above, the mask has got some unneeded additions.
How come Fyr didn't come down with Corpus?
>>47302309
I just assumed that it was the light, but Skywind has taken a lot of liberties in their art design.
>>47302585
They want to make something new and special, instead of a remake.
>>47302585
I imagine the artists find it more fun to reimagine Morrowind assets rather than just making reproductions of Morrowind's stuff. Skywind is weird, but it's pretty understandable.
Though to be perfectly honest, I'm totally okay with them not just trying to reproduce Morrowind, because that seems pointless.
>>47302709
As pointless as using Skyrim engine.
>>47302709
>>47302687
I haven't really been following it lately, as I prefer Morrowind to Skyrim, but if they manage to somehow bring classes and the armor system back to Skyrim, I'll grab it just for that.
>>47301742
Artistic liberties
It makes it look more tribal so he relates better to ashlanders
>>47302534
Wizards like him probably have constant 100% resist disease
All these Morrowind revival projects are interesting, but I'll never see my biggestTES-relateddream come true.A Daggerfall that has all the features the devs intended.
Seriously, as much as I love the game, looking at the files, the interviews, and the Compendium is almost depressing because of how much raw ambition was behind it, and how little of it came to be included/work as intended.
>>47302802
Corprus bypasses regular resist disease spells doesn't it? Even at 100% resistance, you still catch it during the main quest.
>>47302534
fyr was underpowered as fuck in morrowind. frankly, being as old as he was, he should have been almost as powerful as the almsivi.
>>47302948
You get cursed with it though, you don't catch it
It's also the only time you can catch it, but both of those are probably gameplay reasons
I don't know if corprus is actually immune to resist disease
>>47302889
Maybe someone will cook up something once Daggerfall Unity gets released. You never know.
>>47302960
The fuckhead trio got their power by licking lorkhan's heart, not from being old
>>47302960
IIRC he's the higest level character in Morrowind and had the highest HP...
>>47302980
You can catch it from some corpse, but that breaks the main quest. So it's probably safe to say that's not working as intended.
>>47302995
I hope so, but I doubt it. I just want stuff like 3D Skakmat and a functioning dynamic war system.
>>47300485
>literally the raw form of alteration magic.
>>47302960
He's got some serious knowledge and skill, but most of that wasn't focused on being powerful. He's a sorcerer first and foremost.
>>47303017
doesnt matter. they ascended to being gods and stagnated and fell in power.
Fyr meanwhile kept learning and becoming more powerful over the course of a couple thousand years.
>>47303018
still underpowered as fuck. unfortunately, he should have been level scaled. to bad that didnt happen til oblivion.
>>47303164
>http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Daggerfall:Skakmat
>Skakmat will never appear in-game
Clear enough for you?;_;
>>47303265
No way fuck level scaling. Just make guys who should be basically impossible to kill like level 50. Could also give them broken passive abilities to make them stronger or tougher than level would imply (for example, the arena champion in oblivion was level scaled, but had a passive ability that increased his blade and athletics by 100, insuring both were always at the cap no matter when you fought him)
>>47303251
having an entire clan of mages be scared as fuck of you to the point of having someone work through diplomatic efforts to get you kinda on their side means power. knowledge is power. he was literally able to cure a god-driven disease and leave only the benefits.
>>47303300
so basically, any enemy should be level scaled without actually being level scaled?
>>47303301
Yeah but it was only cured on the Nerevarine, probably due to divine intervention. Everyone else died from it.
>>47303340
>Everyone else died from it.
?
>>47303322
I'm saying use static levels and stats for everything. Make guys who are strong extremely strong no matter when you decide to piss them off. Make areas that should be more dangerous have stronger enemies. Morrowind was a lot better about this than following games regarding named characters, but even it had the flaw of level scaled random enemies. It removes the feeling that you are a person interacting with the world and replaces it with one where the world is reacting to you
>>47303265
>they ascended to being gods and stagnated
That's not true at all.
Beside, you're confusing knowledge for fightan power. It doesn't really matter all that much how hard he is to kill.
>>47303286
I'm totally clueless as to why he wasn't included. Even one of the graphical artists who worked on Daggerfall, who (likely) worked on Sakamat's assets, doesn't have any idea why it was scrapped.
My best guess is that it went like this:
>"Hey, we got those dragon assets made. But they're kind of hard to implement".
>"Then just skip it, we're already in way over our heads and haemorrhaging money".
>"But he's already in the faction file, and his portrait is in the files. Plus we wrote him into the main story".
>"Just make sure to include him in the Compendium or something."
And that might be the story of how a fully animated 3D dragon got scrapped.
>>47303387
>If you return to Fyr at a later point in the game, he will tell you that the potion doesn't seem to work on the rest of his cases and that he killed two of his most desperate patients while testing it. Apparently you are an exceptional case, though as you may have found out, the Nerevarine is supposedly protected from this death by prophecy.
>>47303454
I've never bothered talking to him again
>>47303446
>the tribunal aren't god
heck outta here
>>47303390
on top of being an incredible waste of time worrying about potentially hundereds of iterations of enemies, you also have to worry about the character levels. In oblivion and skyrim there were a technically limited number of levels. in morrowind, there was a simple glitch that allowed you to progres into the hundreds of levels easily. Tell me a level 50 with special buffs directly related to the player level is any different than a level 250 enemy that is scaling with the player.
>>47303498
If the tribunal are god why did they all die for good
>>47303498
>not having any reading comprehension
>>47303446
iirc, once they became gods, it took awhile, but they became weaker over time due to the disconnect from the heart. this was implicitly stated in the game by vivec himself.
>>47303518
I don't think you understand how level scaling works. It works by making the level of the bad guy's level the same as the player's, with the option of an integer offset. Also by "50" I just meant really high, prohibitively so for a low or mid level player to be able to hope to challenge them without some sort of exploit.
Also, the method I'm suggesting doesn't mean you have to make more kinds of enemies. But just to use the more powerful ones in more dangerous areas, and the weaker ones in safer areas, all the time. Instead of using leveled lists to have enemies around the player's level show up everywhere in the world.
>not capitalizing properly
Can the Nords please leave, or at the very least pretend to be civilized?
>>47303563
That doesn't mean they stagnated. Sotha Sil certainly didn't, nor did Vivec.
>>47303518
Are you challenged? Do you require assistance? Because you're very clearly not understanding what you're talking about.
>>47303580
Vivec's combat prowess is often overestimated I think. I mean the only fight we ever knew he won was against the nerevar, and that was three on one. He pussied out against Cyrus, he pussied out against Tiber, he literally took it in the ass from molag bal
>>47303474
wew, any rp reason?
>>47303637
>Vivec is so buttmad about being weak he keeps writing fan-fics where he doesn't suck
>>47303647
No, I just already was telvanni archmagister by then and looted the place, never had a need to go back
>>47303637
>he literally took it in the ass from molag bal
I thought he bit his dick off.
>>47303637
>Vivec's combat prowess is often overestimated I think
Not talking about combat prowess. I mean, spending your godhood just learning how to fight better seems pretty pointless when you could spend it doing philosophical studies and unravelling the secrets of the universe. Or building rad machines.
>>47303690
He's an interesting guy...
>implyingalmaisn't the best warrior of the tribunal
>>47303712
If vivec had spent some time at the gym instead of jerking of to the Vedas and Sutras, he could have just walked into red mountain and kicked dagoth ur's ass. Instead he had to wait for his dead friend to reincarnate and take care of it form him.
>>47286252
>>47295353
Akavir is bigger than Tamriel.
Its basically an amalgamation of India, South-east Asia, several flavours of China, and Nipponland.
>>47303782
>caring about martial matters
>as a god
Typical mortal mentality.
>>47303786
There's not necessity in that.
>>47303810
It nearly cost him his home and his people. It may have cost him his life.
>>47303786
>Akavir is bigger than Tamriel
Source on this?
>>47303862
There is none.
>>47303892
I thought so...
>>47283452
In Arena manual Tamriel is said to be four thousand kilometers wide. That's the closest thing we have to an official scale.
>>47303637
Wasn't it him who saved Alm and Sil during the failed attack on Dagoth Ur that lost them two of the tools?
>>47304106
Yes, but through unknown means. He certainly didn't engage Ur or he would have died there.
Oh, and while I remember it:
Some of you guys seemed sort of stumped about Meridia last thread, especially in relation to how she contains the Plenum. Now, I won't claim to have figured out the necessary answer, or that any of this is right, but I offer is as a possible explanation. Because it seems a lot simpler when you've read the Magne Ge Pantheon.
To keep it brief, consider for a minute that the Magne Ge are colour, as was Merid. I'd argue that colour might also contain a whole lot more, but that's not important right now. The Coloured Rooms, containing every colour, are made from light. Which also contains every colour, in addition to being pure magic stuff.
According to the Magne Ge Pantheon:
>"Merid is special. Before the Breaking, her teeth, claws, and benevolent whimsy reached into every quarter of the Magne-Ge."
She reached into every colour. In a sense, she contained every one, and she still does. The entire narrative of the Pantheon does in many ways seem to revolve around her.
A Plenum is, of course, an assembly of all members, or a space completely filled with matter.
Not only does her light, realm and being contain all colour, her Infinite Energies might also be seen as all-encompassing. That's not to say that everything is in Meridia or anything ridiculous like that, but we can point at spheres (light, colour, life, energy) where she in some way seems to have everything within that in her sphere.
I'm probably not presenting this well, or not making sense.
>>47304077
So a bit smaller than Europe? That could be possible, although with all the racial, cultural and climatical diversity I would expect it to be a little bigger.
>>47304320
Are you saying she's white light, or perhaps a rainbow?
>>47304387
Just light.Also Magenta.
>>47304326
You gotta keep in mind that most of the various groups of people were actively created by competing factions of actual gods a few thousand years ago, except for the groups that sneaked in from the previous cycle of existence.
Totally different from the elder scrolls world, which is a dream where our notions of reality don't always apply
>>47304077
Yah, by Arena's scale. Now we got >>47286121
this map and I prefer it way more.
>>47304779
Is it canon in any way?
>>47304963
It's Kirkbride's scale if that means anything to you. I follow it merely because I feel like it presents my ideal size for Tamriel and doesn't make it into a shitty little Australia "continent."
>>47305054
It's too big, according to the size of provinces and their organization and wars.
>>47305138
I fail to see how its too big in anyway.
>>47305191
the spread of the different cultures and their technology, comparing it to the real world
>>47306066
>the real world
>>47306368
yes, the one we're comparing Tamriel with.
>>47306708
Real world rules don't necessarily apply to Nirn.
>>47306368
That map is pretty much based on real world. Yokuda=Americas, Akavir=Japan.
>>47306939
It's only for scale, MK and LN said it themselves.
>>47306953
I don't understand. They gave us shapes. Unless they are making it absolutely clear these are not the real shapes, how can they not be the shapes?
I don't care if it's just a scale map, I need visual cues to understand the scale, and if you aren't giving me land masses there's no way I can see the scale of anything.
Then again, I'm not even happy that Yokuda still exists, so maybe I should stop talking.
>>47306953
No, they clearly copied real world continents.
>>47307242
Are you drunk?
>>47307258
No they didn't.
>>47306913
Then say it's just an arbitrary size you picked instead of reasoning. It could be as big as the sun for all we know.
>The continents of Nirn scaled to those of Earth (based on discussions between Michael and myself). It doesn’t matter if this is exact, because it puts things into perspective. It’s easy to dismiss Bretons as French people with magic until you realize that Highrock is the size of the entirety of western Europe. >Think about:
>The Chimer migration out of Alinor, equivalent to traveling the distance from Mali to Moscow (and then some).
>The Great War, with Aldmeri troops conquering what amounts to the entire Arabian peninsula and the Mediterranean sea (in addition to holding the combined area of Libya, Egypt, Chad, Sudan, and Ethiopia to start with).
>Septim’s Empire being 3-4 times the size of Rome at its height, and about 1.5 times the size of the Mongolian Empire in the late 1300s. The logistics of managing this area, of moving troops, news, and goods. The almost incalculable number of individual cultures within its borders. How easily and how swiftly both Rome and Mongolia fell in on themselves (multiple times).
>The fact that what we call “Redguards” and “Left-Hand Elves” must, in fact, be dozens of “races” occupying a continent twice the size of Tamriel. The Left Hander’s empire was described in the Sword Meeting as three times as big as Septim’s - in Earth terms, they held North and South America as well as Africa.
>(Editorial note: Yokuda is closer to Tamriel than depicted on the map. It’s was placed to overlap with the Americas for scale reference, rather than accurate relationship to Tamriel)
>>47307439
>(based on discussions between Michael and myself)
Myself being?
>>47307470
Lady Nigger.
>>47284310
>no migrating trees, Crystal cities, or a dozen sub-races of the native race
It's far from the hardest to do, anon(s)
>>47307439
>The Left Hander’s empire was described in the Sword Meeting as three times as big as Septim’s
We had empires three times the size of Tamriel and sheeit
>>47302889
Bethesda a very ambitious little company. That's what gets them into trouble too. They aren't lying at conventions and such when they list what they plan to put in the game, they just don't expect to not be able to actually do it. I kinda feel bad for them, but they do pretty well regardless.
>>47306066
Oh wow, so you are one of those 'everything in fantasy needs to translate concurrently to medieval Europe' guys.
This is seriously the most obnoxious fucking bullcrap I ever see anyone bring up regarding fantasy worlds. You are seriously going to fucking tell me that a fucking made up world needs to be completely adherent to the fucking developmental norms of medieval Europe?
Have you not even considered the ramifications of a singular well organized continent spanning Empire extant for four centuries? How much progress could be achieved from that extreme level of unity? Not even the modern world has ever acquired that level of uniformity.
You have zero actual basis to state how Tamriel would develop.
>>47307274
>they didn't
Then why Yokuda is divided into two continents that just so happened to be the size of Americas?
And why Akavir is so small and roughly the shape of Japan?
>>47307865
ZZZzzzzzZZZZ
>>47307940
>I have no actual response
>>47307976
You're just so wrong on your eloquent analysis of my comparision it's not worth addressing the other angry insults.
>>47308100
>he's wrong because I say so :DDD
Anon this is pathetic, its almost like you don't have anything to say.
>>47307865
I see no reason for Tamriel to be bigger than roman empire. It just doesn't add anything.
>>47308342
>It just doesn't add anything
It adds a more relatable sense of awe to the Empire, its founding, and exploits.
It doesn't make the world feel small, or make you question if Tamriel is only a small portion of the world.
It makes the provinces feel like naturally developing regions/realms rather than schlocky and forced locked off areas.
It adds way more room for more development and depth to be added to the world.
>>47308173
learn to read, retard
>>47307470
Hiswife.
>>47307274
How can you say that it's just for scale, and try to claim that everything that was put on the map (to give us a sense of scale) isn't as it actually is in Tamriel?
>>47309273
You're talking to different people you dork.
>>47308774
I think you should learn to read, anon. You pretty clearly stated I'm wrong and just left it at that. Now you're just embarrassing yourself. It's like you're pretending to have an argument that you don't have, and that you are pretending that you've won this argument that you haven't even started. Like are you consciously making the decision to be this much of a faggot?
If you have something meaningful to say, say it. Otherwise, please stop posting.
>>47308571
But if it was the size of the Roman Empire, we can already relate some awe to its exploits. It was importing exotic beasts halfway across its empire just to stage daily fights. Making the Septim Empire almost absurdly huge by comparison doesn't really change much, aside from making you question if Jagar Tharn was even really necessary for the empire to start collapsing.
We have no idea how large the world is, but we do know that there are other lands (Yokuda, Akavir, Atmora). There's nothing wrong with Tamriel being just one of several continents, and it doesn't' have to be the biggest.
And we already have a large history of provinces and how they shrink and grow. They've never felt locked off to me in their current size, or without depth to their development - making High Rock the size of Europe just feels overblown, and makes me question why people would even try to travel around the world or try to keep it in any order if it's so gigantic. It'd be near impossible to go from Daggerfall to Lilmoth in any reasonable length of time. Countries and landmasses can be of various sizes, but smaller ones - city states, petty kingdoms, small empires - are far more explainable than amazingly large ones, especially with only a certain level of technology.
I think in the end it comes down to what you enjoy, but they don't need to blow me away with size and scale. Even if Tamriel was only about 4000 km across, I wouldn't mind - that's still a lot of room.
>>47309683
>Making the Septim Empire almost absurdly huge by comparison doesn't really change much
How does having an Empire four times larger than Rome not change much? It's awesome and interesting
>aside from making you question if Jagar Tharn was even really necessary for the empire to start collapsing
This is exactly what I mean. Your problem is that rather than trying to see a world where this great state could exist, you are stuck in this notion that Tamriel cannot surpass irl feats, even if it means translating it to obviously less developed time periods. With a well enough organized government technically any state can exist. Instead of saying, wow that they managed to make that work, you are saying, no that would never ever work (even though the Empire isn't even that much larger (or perhaps smaller) than the British Empire).
>There's nothing wrong with Tamriel being just one of several continents, and it doesn't' have to be the biggest
Tamriel has always been the center of things, the center of Nirn. It is the dominant continent. I know that its not the only continent, and I know its possibly not the largest. What I don't like is the idea that the dominant continent is incredibly small.
>And we already have a large history of provinces and how they shrink and grow. They've never felt locked off to me in their current size
You don't find it weird that Elsweyr, a land apparently the size of Italy, has somehow managed to remain a self contained society of a single race for millenia? There are no grey areas with the Europe-sized figure. They don't feel like natural expanses, its like the races actively contained themselves to tiny little regions.
>>47310488
continued
>making High Rock the size of Europe just feels overblown,
Making the place based off of Europe the size of Europe seems overblown? Seems rather correct to me (and it isn't the size of Europe).
>and makes me question why people would even try to travel around the world or try to keep it in any order if it's so gigantic
Likely because there is a massive, well organized singular government that allows for such ventures.
> It'd be near impossible to go from Daggerfall to Lilmoth in any reasonable length of time
And that's why most people probably just go to Cyrodiil. Not to mention this is probably a sign that Tamriel has rather efficient sailing technolgies. Anyways, why would anyone from Daggerfall need to go there? If Tamriel is a normal sized continent trade can easily go to relatively nearby lands, hell trade could probably remain near self contained to the Iliac.
> but smaller ones - city states, petty kingdoms, small empires - are far more explainable than amazingly large ones,
There is nothing cool about a small Empire. Tiber's feats are supposed to be incredible, hell he needed a fucking god to make his Empire a possibility. Australia-Tamriel doesn't given even a fraction of that awe, in fact, it makes me wonder how Tamriel ever became so split off to begin with.
>especially with only a certain level of technology
The level of technology in Tamriel is debateable. There is also magic to consider, Magical instantaneous communication has been a thing since Arena, and so has teleportation.
>>47310488
I just don't really think it makes it awesome and interesting. All it really does is make me question how it even held together. You try and say 'wow they made that work,' but they never say HOW they make it work. Anything I'd guess would just be headcanon beyond the Imperial Legions.
I know, Tamriel is the Arena, it's the center of everything. But it doesn't have to be roughly as huge as Asia to get the point across that it's central, especially since we almost never see anything else.
Almost none of the provinces have ever been just one race. There's always been a dominant race, but there have often been immigrants and foreign visitors. Leyawinn used to be Elseweyr territory, the First Empire of the Nords controlled a huge chunk of High Rock. Just because they are where they are now, doesn't mean that they haven't changed over time. You're being ignorant of the changes Tamriel has gone under, especially when you have something like >>47289574 (while it's not perfect, it gets the message across). And it's not as if they've never been influenced culturally by other races - it's just cultures like the Altmer and the Dunmer have traditionally had more pride in their culture and heritage, or the Argonians have maintained isolation in Black Marsh. Cultures like the Imperials, Orcs, and Redguard have cultural integration as part of their history.
High Rock being based off of Europe doesn't force it to be Europe-sized. That'd be like saying Hammerfell has to be Africa. And I feel like you're making a lot of assumptions about sailing technologies, and people just going to Cyrodiil, or that people might WANT to trade with distant lands instead of nearby neighbors. That's what the East Empire Company is for.
Why isn't a small Empire cool? It's not like the Roman Empire or the Mongol Empire was petty. It's a great achievement.
I think it comes down to different tastes. You want a huge empire just because it's awesome a la 40k, I want something more relatable.
