Wyverns are more broken than wraithhuard edition
>Rules databases
https://mega.co.nz/#F!pFgm0RKR!J06C1gVYcjzNGsF8YNLsjQ
https://kat.cr/warhammer-40k-pdf-library-t9575373.html
>FAQs
http://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Rules-Errata
>40k 7th edition quick reference sheet(s)
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4104995/Games/7edRef_V7.pdf
>Forgeworld Book index
http://www.dakkadakka.com/wiki/en/Forge_World_and_Apocalypse_Rules_Index
>White Dwarves
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/tx4hcy4u487pv/WD
>orks are the most war-loving race
>Ld7
>>46946096
I wish I was as dedicated as you anon.
>>46946096
>Orks can make anything work with their WAAAAGH! field.
>Can't make a good codex.
>>46946088
Are Tauros worth a look at for IG lists?
How do Flamers fare if you stick them in a Rhino? Can driving a squad across the board with two firing out of the top work reasonably well, or is the range too difficult to manage?
>>46946088
I would rather face a Wraithknight than its point equivalency in Wyverns.
Fight Me.
>>46946088
Calling it now helturkeys will nlsuck no matter what roll they're given.
Wait, what does the new book do to Coldstars? I just modeled one.
>>46946168
The end result for your ass is the same either way.
>>46946096
Why the fuck would Orks have high leadership? They're a god damn rabble of small minded savages. How is it any surprise they are easily thrown into disorder? It's like saying IG should be ld8 because they're all brainwashed into dogmatic loyalty.
>>46946168
(you)
Do you believe in new model syndrome /tg/?
I charged a squad of 20 guardsmen + priest with my new bloodthirster.He in one round of combat from full health.Hitting on 5s, wounding on 6s, 3+ armour and a 4+ FnP dealt 6 wounds to him with 18 attacks.
>>46946168
What is that, 4-5 Wyverns?
It depends what you have as to how scary that would be really.
>>46946172
They're an attack flier. Hadesdrake was shit anyways. Baledrake is okay, but suffers heavily against enemies that space their dudes.
>>46946197
Nothing at all, FMCs get jack, and the Coldstar is even less than that.
>>46946220
>doesnt even capitilize the Y
how the fuck am I supposed to get my (You)'s when you cant even do that right anon
>>46946233
Orks.
>>46946213
>Why the fuck would Orks have high leadership? They're a god damn rabble of small minded savages
well so are the salamanders and they are ld8
>>46946246
But every faction runs 100+ grots, don't you know? That is why Wyverns and Helldrakes are the best units in the game!
>>46946230
>He in one round of combat from full health.
FUCK
He died in round round of combat to guardsmen. Granted they were rerolling their to hit and to wound but seriously, what were the chances?
>>46946172
>Heldrakes are attack Flyers
>Can't use the autocannon to take out enemy flyers, can't win dogfights
>Heldrake is a Fighter
>Baleflamer is useless as anti-air, probably can't even function in a dogfight with it
Not to mention there will probably be no new rules to account for Vector strike on it.
>>46946278
The Emperor protects
>>46946210
She looks like a shark.
>>46946304
That disgusting land creature cant compare to Shark-chan
>>46946230
This>>46946301
>>46946278
>What are the chances?
New model, lovingly assembled and painted, maybe even a little converted? Around a 100%, I'd say.
>>46946349
>>46946280
>no new rules to account for Vector strike on it.
Vector strike can only hit ground targets or can only hit fighters on a 6+
>>46946349
She can't be a shark, she is not a man. No floppy useless penis, no space sharks.
>>46946394
I was really hoping somone had an edit for that. But why no blush ////
>>46946394
What the hell? You ruined perfection you faggot.
>>46946230
I've got it terminal. Must be going on 6 years now.
>>46946359
Vengeance without an actual sword is worthless
Hatred won't stop a bullet
Trust is the ultimate vulnerability
>>46946453
It is blushing.
>>46946230
>being a memethirster
>being a bitch of Kellogg
laughingmirrorsviewedthroughprisms.jpg
>>46946272
Like the Baleflamer template ever hits more than 4 infantry. I space out any vulnerable squads I have, and ignore Heldrakes. You can easily limit a template to 3 hits.
Wyverns are a bit of a bitch. But thats the only above average unit IG has. So I dont begrudge them for it, theres a lot worse out there than a str 4 ignores cover barrage. Especially since Wyverns crumple like paper.
Guys, I'm ready to shelve my Grey Knights and keep them as a display army. I just can't win with them and yesterday I played against Necrons/AdMech (Not even Warconvo/Maniple or Decurion) and got BLASTED. I had to concede on turn 2 because there was no way to win.
My list was 2 Librarians, one of them in a 5 man squad in a Land Raider Crusader along with Malleus Terminator Inquisitor for scout move, non scattering deepstrikes. The other Librarian was in a 10 man Terminator squad that deepstriked in. 2 Dreadknights And in the back I had an imperial bunker with minimal acolyte squads to pad my warp charges and comms relay to re-roll my reserves. Well...I rolled for First to the Fray, great warlord trait, I rolled good psyker powers, I made my scout move and it went downhill from there. My Land Raider which has NEVER gotten to shoot in the 5 games I've used it got haywired and gaussed, the terminators inside got blasted by dunecrawlers, my Dreadknights actually got on the board on the first turn for once, only to have them deal the ONLY casualties that game. 5 Necron Warriors and 5 Skitarri rangers. The Dreadknights were promptly killed, the big 10 man squad couldn't kill a single deathmark, and that game was essentially a waste of my time.
AdMech are an elite army done right, they have all sorts of cool toys and tricks, while Grey Knights are Psyker Space Marines with free power weapons and that's it. I can't even fucking win against Khorne Daemons in casual matches and it makes me sad that' I've invested so much because they've got some great models.
>>46946172
Does that mean fighters can't choose to not use their sky fire anymore either? That'd be pretty great.
>>46946609
I think you missed the last thread...
>>46946552
That's actually an amazing paint job.
>>46946609
>>46946630
/40kg/ is a funny as fuck place to be. I've seen people ACTUALLY saying that it's "WAACfag" or "cheesing" if you play multiple of your best unit in you dex.
If you use x3 Hive Tyrants. You're a WAACfag. If you use x3 Wyverns. You're a WAACfag. If you use x3 Big Mek Gunz (or whatever they're called) you're a WAACfag. If you use x3 squads of Purifiers, you're a WAACfag.
Etc.
>>46946677
It is. I saved it cause I was jelly. It works well, despite not being "oo blending and shades and stuff". It's a real shame you cannot make colours that Tzeentch produces.
Also, fun fact, lots of women can see more colours than men, but they need to be trained to do it. Wonder why it's only women thou.
>>46946624
Yes l, as a space wolf player with only D day flying carriers this leaves me once again without AA options.
>>46946689
And of course, the fa/tg/uys crying about this are hard done by players only playing fun and fluffy lists, just trying to enjoy the game, not caring about winning at all.
>>46946250
>Orks.
You shouldget a reclamation legion of Necrons.It has made IG much less scary thanwhen I tricked myself into liking orks :^)
>>46946630
Oh. Wyvern rage? Heldrake rage? I imagine anyone upset about either of these doesnt play too often, cuz theres so much worse than either of these.
That or its the typical thoughtless ranting that we seem to get here on regular basis.
>>46946748
>Necrons
Traded my Necrons for Ork Walkers :^)
>>46946609
In MSU armies in dense terrain, those 4 hits are much more dangerous than they would normally be.
You need more terrain in your life, anon.
>>46946727
My personal favourite is the 'tales' of asshole X army players who totally mean the rest of X army players are assholes.
Tau
Ork
IG
CSM
are all terrible.
>>46946752
No, I am on the opposite fence. Last thread I argued that Wyverns are not particularly good because they only hit a few models a turn, to which I got a chorus of "I hit 45 models a turn with mine!!" and "spacing your troops is cheating!"
I was sarcastically referencing those arguments.
>>46946233
Things like the Wyvern are why I, at times, advocate vehicle Orks over infantry heavy, as odd as that sounds.
As much as people scream about there being an overabundance of ways to ruin a vehicles day, I notice it's hardly much better for hordes or infantry heavy lists.
>>46946230
I do a bit. But rage fudge is stronger.
I knew someone with something similar,
the more he raged the worse his dice were.
So to test the limits of his ability to alter probability, I made a list to specifically counter his army.
He raged so fucking bad by turn 4 that
>I wipe a squad of 5 hammer terminators with 10 Tyranid gargoyles, which I just bought
He stopped playing, packed up went home, didn't even touch 40k for months after that.
>>46946623
Welp.
I don't know exactly the details, for me I would've kept the Dreadknights on the board and T1 shunted up and took out the Haywire (assuming Arc Rifles on AdMech) with their Heavy Incin / Other Gun.
Personally I don't like 10m TDA squads and would've combat squaded.
But I really don't know his list that well, what powers you rolled for, etc.
Though remember GKs get the new Psy powers and Technomancy might of been sweet vs Vehicles (my bane when I played GKs)
Give some more details
>reading the Angels of Death supplement
>damn this is awesome stuff
>ooo awesome, unique relics!
>I can't wait to see Crimson Fists, or even better, Black Templar relics!
>....
And with one fell swoop my hope was crushed like a grot under a Emperor class titan....
>>46946867
Anybody who argues it's good is clearly not a pro like me.
>2016
>not running your units in a chevron, 'v' or 'u' formation
MAXIMUS PELBIUS
>>46946904
I started running my Boyz in Wagons, then my IG player gave literally every squad flamers and every vehicle heavy flamers. Now I either get Cooked Alive or whatever that retarded as fuck rule is, or the wagons get destroyed my melta dropping Vendettas and then the boys get Shrieked, Wyvern'd, or charged and wiped
>>46946780
>Ork Walkersmfw the DDs were blue and now all the Necron are too
>>46946552
He's the last greater daemon in my collection.Looking at that makes me wish I wasn't so shit at painting.
Working on a Genestealer Cult list for the heck of it. I am thinking it might look like:
Ghosar Quintus Broodkin formation
Lictor Forest Brood
Broodlord's Hunting Pack
-Trying to figure out how to get a bunch of guardsmen to take positions in here.
The list basically starts all of the melee units within 6 inches of the opponent, and some of them can charge turn 1. The rest charge turn 2, while the shrouded genestealer cult and the guards walk onto the points and begin to dakka things.
>>46946689
If you use 3 maxxed squadrons of wyverns you are a boring WAAC fag.
>>46946830
Lets be real though, Tau seems to attract the worst of the worst. They insist their army is mid-tier, and not a single one of them has ever been WAAC. They all just like the models; and of course the formations are fluffy.
The Tau regulars at my local GW (Scottsdale, AZ)
Dave- terrible person, mercilessly berates the weaker, nerdier guys. Allies in Eldar. Plays powerlists exclusively; constantly calling others cheesy. Even a CSM guy that wanted to use a Fire Raptor.
Dan: pretty cool bro. no Riptides, lots of tanks.
flgs Tau guys:
Ben- literal autist
Alex: magnetized suits, switches out weapons on his suits once he finds out what list hes up against. Powergamer, rules lawyer.
Idk this guysname: young, loud as hell, shouts a lot, complete fucking retard in every way
>>46946254
The effects of failing a leadership test really depends on the situation:
- Orks stop fighting the enemy and shift blame of not winnin' to each other. "BACK TO THE CAMP SO I CAN BASH YER 'EAD IN!"
- In the case of IG, it could be just one or two men in the squad having second thoughts.. unless there there was blamming involved
- Eldar changing their minds to the better part of valor
etc.
I want to add some chaos sorcerers to my Necrons using the new formation, but I want them to match the rest of the army. Any idea what would be a good counts as (something not Necron but looks like Necrons).
>>46946867
>"I hit 45 models a turn with mine!!" and "spacing your troops is cheating!"
25 models
And noon said anything even remotely like the latter.
If you feel the need to lie to make your case...
>>46946623
Sorry to hear that friend. What point level are you playing at? You need way more bodies to mitigate the risk of failed reserve rolls, deepstrike scatters, and to force your opponent to have to choose his targets more carefully. As it stands he can easily pick you apart as he has less things to worry about. Maybe try dropping the LR and the bunker for more bodies. If you want a comms relay then just get a defense line. The bunker isn't worth it if that's the only reason you have it. Don't take 10 man termi-squads. It lets your opponents focus fire too much. The only way it's worth it to take more than 5 is a group of 10 paladins with the banner and apothecary for more hits/defense but that is a massive point sink for a single target to be shot at.
tl,dr - Lose the LR and bunker for more bodies to pressure your opponent more. Right now he doesn't even have to worry about target priority.
>>46947039
Man the Keeper of secrets is a POS model.
>>46947049
Can always go Inquisition and use Not!Guardsmen with Bolters @5ppm. Max size 12.
Or just a CAD of IG, with vets and a platoon for troops (or two of either)
>>46947071
>implying taking that much str 4 shooting is waac
Unless you're against a blob army, that would be gimping yourself.
>>46947007
I feel that when people start to tailor like that, the whole argument about things being powerful or not goes out of the window. If you're going to be that guy and tailor your shit to the other player's weaknesses, then itis going to seem OP.
I take two Wyverns in my 1850 TAC list, I would never take more, especially not in response to a particular players list.
>>46947132
S4 shred.
Means anything without T8 or AV will die.
But yes, WAAC is the wrong word, cheesey is better.
>>46946152
If a vehicle in your IG list isn't A: Blamming the everloving fuck out of something, or B: Carrying shit so that THEY may blam the everloving fuck out of something, then something has gone wrong.In all seriousness they're decent but not worth it imo
>>46947082
Naked Iron Warriors maybe?
>>46946060
>>46946178
Sorry, I meant the Exterminator, I get the names confused.
>>46947039
You're better than me. It's pretty cool. One day anon....
>>46947071
Even if the rest of the choices are, I dunno, Ogryns and Ratlings? No AT at all?
>>46947075
I like the Tau suits. I don't like the tanks/apcs/flyers. But I've resisted. The problem is, I don't know what to do. I've always wanted to get them. Ah well, it is a shame. To be, fluffy is only one Riptide if the army is cadre level.
>>46947207
a MEQ will still save the wound 2 out of 3 times
When are sisters of battle coming back?
The gw website doesn't even have most of them in stock.
New codex and models soon maybe?
>>46947254
I would say the Lascannon isn't worth it on the Exterminator, especially with the HB sponsons. Leave it with a HB and use it for heavy anti-infantry.
Autocannonon Heavy Weapons team is solid.
>>46946917
Dreadknights landed in front of the Haywire squads, and they did take aim, but it was wayyy to late because the Land Raider Scout moved, opponent ran through cover and got in range and just let loose with the Necrons and the Rangers. The biggest thing that killed me was that I went second. Like, no matter what I was NOT getting a charge on any unit in the first turn. I saw on the official 40k FB page that the new psy powers were for Codex: Space Marines chapters only. If they are, then why the hell is the new stuff on the GK page for GW?
I rolled Daemonology on one and got Sanc, Cleansing Flame, Gate of Infinity, and Purge Soul. Telepathy on the other and got Terrify, Levitation, and Hallucination. It was 2 guys splitting the points on the other side. Necrons was 20 warriors, 3 Tomblades, an Overlord, 10 Deathmarks, 5 Immortals, and a Monolith. Admech was a Dominus, 10 Rangers, 10 Vanguard, 2 Dunecrawlers, 3 Plasma Servitors.
>>46947109
We usually play at 1850. I want to keep my army as "pure" as everyone else's in the groups because we just play casually. They don't even ally and steamroll me most of the time. I like the bunker because it defends whoever's manning the Comm Relay MUCH better than the ADL in my experience. And just to let it be known, the dice ABSOLUTELY hate me. It's rare for an opponent to fail saves against me, like against all fucking odds, they roll 5-6's ALL THE TIME, and while I only need to make 2+'s most of the time, I roll 1's more often than not. I ran the LR because my Draigo isn't quite ready. I hate sounding like a crybaby, but I'm just tired of losing SO FUCKING BADLY every time.
>>46947082
get a box of triarch praetorians and make some cryptek look-alikes with them and deathmark heads
>>46946623
Land raiders are not worth anything in a GK list. To be honest, you actually probably don't even want your dudes in combat that often, unless you're guaranteed to be able to cut your way out. GK aren't marines with power swords, and playing them that way will make you lose. You need to be really fast and really aggressive if you want to accomplish anything. Spam WC, shoot for anything that improves saves or kills enemies. Everything else is pretty much useless. Dreadknights shouldn't deepstrike. Terminators should, pretty much always. Use servo skulls. They have the added benefit of trapping skitarii by cutting off their scout move. Drop in and unload psychic hate. Use purifiers, they can take four special weapons in a squad of ten, then combat squad to give 4WC, a unit of PC, and some other dudes to do other things. Shoot, teleport, gate, and witchfire your way around the board until everything's dead.
>>46947254
>Exterminator
don't it's the worst version of the leman russ
it tries to be the jack of all trades and ends up being bad at most things
it shines at ripping up light vehicles but it's not really worth wasting that many points on a russ when HWT autocannons (as part of an infantry or command squad) will do the same job cheaper
>>46947296
Shhhsshhhh, sleep, fair child. Sleep and dream sweetly.
>>46947287
*The* wound yes, then there's all the next.
A single Wyvern can expect to kill 2 MEQ per turn, far more if they aren't ideally spaced, say hiding in cover.
>>46947332
I though that was the nova-cannon version.
>>46946278
Getting a war Hymnn from Ld7 is a crapshoot honestly, that Zealot + Re-roll in CC is delicious thoughWho the fuck has EVER used the smash hymnn
>>46946922
I know how you feel. The sad thing is, it would be so easy to make BT players happy. All you would need to do is throw us a couple formations and a core formation that works with crusade squads. The command benefit is the old vows. We actually have nearly enough relics in the 4e book to fill a supplement. It would be easy.
What's more offensive is that updating Templars gives them a great opportunity. There hasn't been an Armageddon book in many editions and orks need help something terrible. In one campaign book, they could give the BT players everything they wanted in the first place and un-fuck the ork formations so that they can finally join 7th edition properly. But no, that's apparently too much to ask for. We need more fucking Tau supplements, apparently.
>>46947331
I do use servo skulls, I have problems moving purifiers up the board, and since they can't deep strike, the only way to not footslog them is either a tank or pair them up with a librarian and pray to god I roll Gate for him. Also, not good with abbreviations, what's WC?
>>46947306
Aahhh shit. I thought I read that you went first (but you got First to the Fray)
The book is Codex Space Marines only. EXCEPT the psychic powers which are for All the different colored marines (BA, DA, GK, SW, SM)
Ya going second really hurts. That sucks.
I hate how 1 dimensional GKs are right now. It's why I shelved mine.
But seriously, check out the new powers. They might of helped.
>>46947341
Tell me a happy story about the old days, Papa.
>>46947503
Here's hoping that the rumors of pre-decurion (2014) codexes get formation datasheets. I'd just be happy with a formation that lets me harness on 3+ that doesn't fucking cost 3000+ pts base. While Eldar can do it with like, 200 pts?
>>46947443
WC is warp charge. Purifiers have terrible mobility problems, but they're probably better off not being used as forward troops anyway. If you want, stick them in a razorback. It's not like we have any other lascannons. A lot of your psychic powers are incredible for killing skitarii, as they're pretty much all AP4. Hit as quickly as you can and pray. It's a tough army to play, but far from impossible. Using the new psychic powers will probably help a lot.
Holy cow, Inquisition can get ML1 Psykers for 10 points each? So for 120 points you can get 12 dice and cast 12 powers out of one mob?
>>46947508
Converting SoB's from Mordheim's Sisters of Sigmar didn't run you bankrupt.
>>46946280
>Heldrake is a fighter
>Has Skyfire
So it can't fucking shoot the template at the ground? Will there be 2 variants?
>>46947592
They're brotherhood of psykers so they count as 1 psyker regardless of how many are in the squad.
the minimum cost og a squad you can take to get a psyker is 10 points for the psyker and 8 points for two acolytes.
>>46947592
Oh they are brotherhood of Psykers. Still awesome though.
>>46947659
Exactly why this change is probably going to screw with it. No matter what category they stick it in, it won't fit.
>>46947508
before codex Dinobots there used to be a faction called chaos space marines, which used primarily traitor space marines as troops.
Does anyone have any good stories of the forces of the Mechanicus slaying the enemies of the Omnissiah?
>>46947503
I haven't gotten a chance to play with the new powers yet, but I can practically guarantee that they'll help. Technomancy may not be the best anti-tank, but it's a fuck of a lot better than psycannons and hitting things with force sticks. The prospect of rerolling saves is also pretty wonderful.
>>46947565
I wouldn't bet on it. GW hates us. Why else would they take away half our wargear? Why else would we have to pay for the ML on a dreadnought when the powers it gets are fucking useless? I don't want to pay 25 points for a 6+ invuln on a dreadnought. That's stupid. The last book was an insult. They cut a bunch of shit (some of which needed to go; I was sick of trying to remember who had which grenades) and gave us nothing in return, except for a couple points cuts.
>>46947592
You'd have to run 4 inquisitorial detachments since it's a limit of 3 per detachment. On top of that you need a minimum of 8 extra points on 2 plain acolytes because the warbands have to be minimum 3 members. So, 18x3 = 54, 54x4 = 216. 216pts for 12 warp charges. The psykers are brotherhood, so no matter how many you run, it's 1 warp charge per squad.
>>46947503
I think I'll shelve mine for now, my buddy who's way more experienced at the game wants to see if he does as badly as me. For now I guess I'll just bust out my minimal cheese Tau and build up my Dark Eldar. I was between AdMech and DE while my friend would get the one I didn't choose, and ended up choosing DE. I kind of regret it now seeing how aweseome AdMech is.
>>46947714
They completely gutted us with that book. My friend who wants to play my GK said he was open to allowing me to use 5e Codex in our games.
>>46947710
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Adeptus_Mechanicus_(Novel_Series)
>>46947770
Ment game stories, shoulda specify better I guess.
Question. Was reading the Angels of Death relic section for White Scars.
So, the Glaive is +1S/+3S AP2/AP3, Master-Crafted. Okay, cool.
Then it mentions the Scimitar of the Great Khan, which is like +1S AP3... But the interesting bit is it says "Model carrying this weapon gets +3WS in a challenge"
So, if I put the Scimitar + Glaive on the same model. I could do +1S/+3S AP2/AP3 and then when I get into the challenge, I got +3WS, but use the Glaive weapon? As it says I gain +3WS in a challenge just for holding it, not if I use it in the fight.
I'd love to put a White Scars Captain with Glaive + Scimitar + Relic Bike and roll for the +D3 HoW hits.
Been getting some wins with this, but I feel like something is missing...
Space Marines 1k point army:
>Chapter Tactics
Ultramarines
>HQ
Captain (He joins Assault Squad):
-Artificer Armour
-Jump Pack
-Burning Blade
>Elites
Dreadnought:
-Drop pod
-Multi Melta Replaced with Twin-Linked Lascannon
-The power fist is kept, and the storm bolter it gets for free is also kept
>Troops
Tactical Squad 1:
-9 marines, 1 sgt (normal sgt, not a veteran)
-Combat squad-ed
-1 flamer
-1 missile launcher
-Rhino with no upgrades
Tactical Squad 2:
-Exactly the same as Tac Squad 1
>Fast Attack
Assault Squad:
-6 space marines, 1 sgt (normal sgt, not a veteran)
-Everyone has jump-packs
-2 flamers
>Heavy Support
Devastator Squad:
-5 marines, 1 sgt (normal, not veteran)
-3 las cannons
-1 armorium cherub
So far, this army has worked out alright. My biggest fear is the enemy doing a deep strike on my devastators, since I usually leave them by themselves. I'm thinking of leaving one of the Tactical combat squads nearby to keep an eye over them if that does happen. But maybe I'm worrying too much.
Any improvements I should make?
>>46947754
I'm not convinced that it's possible to run GK without allies. We are encouraged to deepstrike, but have no reserves manipulation. We have no real anti-tank, no decent volume fire, no AA, and no decent way to take objectives. We have terrible maneuverability and nothing but dreadknights that are both good at combat and able to get there. We make make up for pretty much all these things by allying, but it's obnoxious that we need to and allying cuts down on our psychic abilities, which is the one thing that we do have over pretty much everyone else.
>>46947914
Jack of all trades, master of none. I love it and hate it.
Remember when acts of faith were good enough to encourage sisterspam?
Pepperidge farm remembers, but only barely.
>>46947908
Just don't paint them blue.
>>46947996
Remember when Acts of Faith were actually useful?
Remember when moving in a vehicle didn't make you then shoot Snap Shots?
Remember when Sisters were slightly viable without x3 Exorcists?
Pepperidge Farm remembers....
>>46948148
But I want them to be the best.
>>46948154
Exorcists were cool enough to want to use without them needing to be the only useful tank, at least.
Sure you had to use them, but at least they were fun.
>>46947302
Ah, alright then. I was thinking of the Lascannon to help take out vehicles easier, but all HBolters sounds good.
>>46947332
I don't see how it's the worst, it seems better than the Eradicator(?), and it's a lot cheaper than the regular Leman Russ.
>>46948154
Remember when terminators were good, had veteran tactics and good firepower?
Remember when a land raider+content reaching your lines was bad news?
I remember and I kind of miss that.
>>46948220
The problem is, before Snap Shots, SoB were viable.
x3 Exorcists = 3D6 S8 AP1 Melta(?) Missiles.
x3 Retributor Squads (all with Heavy Bolters)
x3 Repressors (one for each Retributor Squad)
You'd put the 5 Retributors in each Repressor. Repressor has 4 Fire Ports. So you could fire four Heavy Bolters with Rending. It could deal with pretty much anything. But thanks to Snap Snots, you can't do that. You have stay still. Not to forget, AoF are now once per turn :^)
Oh and Celestine, you liked having a useful hero? Lel. Not any more, fag.
>mfw I never got to make my Blood Angel + SoB army. Sanguinour + Celestine OTP!!!! There is no art of them thou :( R34 or otherwise.
As it stands, there's almost no point in taking allies.
>>46948312
Terminators just need to be made cheaper. I can't remember every factions Terminator costs, but I dunno, 5 points or something.
>>46948330
>>46948154
Remember when Orks and Chaos Space Marines were good? Pepperidge Farms remembers.
>>46948330
>As it stands, there's almost no point in taking allies.
-Eldar
>>46948319
Imagine a new sororitas codex.
Sisters cost ten points, squads of up to twenty. Flamers are a +2 upgrade and everyone can have one.
Acts of faith are at will and unlimited per turn. And useful.
Non-inquisitor HQ are useful.
Actual options at fast attack and heavy slots.
>>46947914
What's the best way to ally BA and GK to beat Tau?
>>46947306
Try draigo and a libby in a squad and go for invisibility, since draigo already has some sanctic powers. Shunt dreadknights and interceptors up turn 1. With grey knights you need to forfeit early objectives in favor of full on pressure. You need to be in his face immediately and provide target saturation. Don't take a land raider against necrons or admech, especially if it's only just 1. You need to make him choose between dealing with your draigostar, the interceptors, or the dreadknights all at once.
>>46948357
To me, Terminators look fucking goofy armed with a storm bolter. Like, why the fuck would you take human-sized tank armor, only to have the firepower of 2 separate guys, 1 if the target's close enough?
>>46948417
>Imagine a new sororitas codex.
>Sisters cost ten points, squads of up to twenty. Flamers are a +2 upgrade and everyone can have one.
Stopped reading there. Please give me some of what you're smoking, I need to get high after reading that.
>$60 ameribucks for repackaged Dark Vengeance shit
Is GW le fucking kidding me? Why the hell would I buy this when literally everyone has those cultists at a local FLGS or you could pick them up on ebay for $1/model?
You had one job. Make a cultist box. Put 20 dudes in it with options for either CCW or autogun loadouts. A couple flamers and heavy stubbers. Done. This is what everyone wants and would be an amazing kit. And who the hell wants ANOTHER vrosh tattersoul? Just take that faggot out of the box and make it cheaper since I don't want to pay for this model I won't field. And nobody wants a fucking mishmash of loadouts on snapfit models. $60 for this is a new level of absurd.
>>46948432
Buy the old metal thunderhawk. Paint it half GK and half BA. Tie it to a stick. Bludgeon opponent.
>>46948484
>le
Opinion discarded, try again.
>>46948474
What's wrong, don't want the sisters to be viable? It's not like hordes of short range meq would be OP.
>>46948524
>semantics faggotry
Whole life discarded.
>>46948550
>shitposts
>gets upset when people treat it like a shitpost
>>46948471
They look cool wrist mounted though
>>46948484
>when literally everyone has those cultists at a local FLGS or you could pick them up on ebay for $1/model?
Because not everybody can do that. If you're lucky, do it. I see no reason to complain having the ability of things lots of people don't.
>>46948471
They need either a point reduction or some stat boosting. At least the Captain in Terminator Armour gets re-rolls to 1's on ++ now. Since it actually remembers Terminator Armour has a energy shield AND Captain has an Iron Halo.
>>46948484
It's $48. Still a shit price but discounted.
>>46948590
Too bad my Grey Knights suck. The models are fucking glorious.
>>46947903
If you wanna pay 25 points for WS+3 but only in challenges, knock yourself out
You might literally do that when you take a second to consider how stupid this is and bang your head on a desk
>>46948595
>lucky
if you're too retarded to be able to buy stuff from ebay I don't see how you've learned how to play 40k
in fact, you can find dark vengeance on sale occasionally for almost the same cost as this cultist box, which means you get everything in it + more chosen, a chaos lord, a helbrute, and a bunch of dark angels stuff plus dice and a rulebook. There's no reason to buy this. If you buy it online from GW then you're still paying ebay level shipping costs, so you should still stick with ebay. If you're buying from a brick store, just buy Dark Vengeance or find somebody there with cultists.
>>46948471
Are you saying a machine gun is the same as an assault rifle?
>>46948719
I'm saying that one guy has an assault rifle and the other guy literally taped 2 of the same assault rifles together, slapped on a shared ammo drum or something, and slipped his thumb through so he can hit both triggers at the same time.
What book has the IG formations?
>>46948790
Nope, they aren't csm, Storm bolters aren't the same as combi-bolters
>>46948822
Practically any of the Warzone books, the most recent one being the Warzone Damocles ones.
>>46946473
/edge
>>46948667
I know anon. I know. I'm just theorising. Checking.
Is there a BA detachment?
For going against Space Marines as a Necron Player without any Wraiths or Destroyers is it fair for me to bring my Reclamation Legion against a Battle Company and Armoured Task Force?
He has only faced my Crons at lower points (No more than 1500) so I stuck with a CAD, we haven't played in a while but now I can feel a few formations (almost up to 2500 if I got more tomb blades).
Pretty sure he said he had all the parts for the Battle Company and (if I remember) that is the one that gives him a bunch of free transport and ObSec everything.
I already know he has 3 drop pods for two units of Stern (or maybe one is a command?) and a dread naught and that much instant closeness may ruin my day (besides my orikan star melee isn't my forte)
>3v3 this past wekend
>black templar friend brings 2000 points worth of crusaders, transports, and helbrecht
>we three deploy, BT, Tau and Crimson fists
>practically a 2v3 untill he can reach the front lines
>me and my tau friend duke it out against eldar, csm and orks
>me and my tau friend almost lost our entire forces after all the shooting, even though we've traded very well considering the odds
>all crusaders exit their vehicles and a Helbrecht charge is declared
>entire squads blow up and he sends about 3000 points worth of shit packing in 2 turns
>>46949203
>being outshot by orks
>>46949203
And i'm reminded of this because he just bought Titans to expand his footslog faggotry.
>>46949241
Orcs fw when he lost 1500 points in one turn
what do you think the 8th edition starter set will be?
>>46949520
marines vs xenos, you make it sound like it could be anything else
>>46949520
>Orks and Nids :)
>>46949520
space marines vs space marines
this time it will literally just be two loyalist factions having a disagreement, like DA vs SW. there's no reason for other armies to even exist
- GW
>>46949568
If I wanted Marine vs Marine, I would play 30k, which is a far better game with far better models.
>>46949588
they can't hear you over all this coin dropping into GW coffers, could you repeat that
Sometimes I wish drop pods could land on the enemy...
>>46949520
Sisters vs Zoats
>>46949520
daemons vesus tyranids
>>46949625
What is Kharybdis Assault Claw?
>>46949520
I'm going to guess Grey Knights vs Daemons. ScreenCap this.
>>46949666
Dunno, what is it anon?
>>46947709
funny, I dont remember that ever being a codex. I DO remember a codex where you would take bloodthirsters or demon princes, some vindicators, a basalisk or two, and some obliterators. Is that the codex you speak of? Because chaos space marines have never been the crux of chaos space marines.
Does anyone know the the nephilim is fighter, or attack craft?
If all the loyalist Space Marine chapters all suddenly turned on one another and started fighting, who'd you think would come out on top?
>>46949666
a piece of gimmicky trash
>>46949666
You bring up a good point Satan, with the formation you can even ram it into things for a strength D hit.
>>46949692
forgeworld drop pod that acts like a flyer, has a formation that does some nifty things
>>46949788
someone out on the fringe or ultras/dark angels. blood angels die out sooner
>>46949788
Who's writing the fluff?
>>46949788
smurfs
1) plot armor
2) most tacticool/capable in politics
3) favored of terra
4) resources
>>46949788
Ultramarines, by sheer numbers.
>>46949704
>everyone played iron warriors meme
>required 2 troops choices
>only choices are chaos space marines besides crappy daemons
>legitimately the best troop choice in the game because of double special weapon access even under 10 men and cheap rhinos
>not the crux of the codex
kekeronies pepperonies
>>46949788
Alpha Legion.
>>46949788
One of the legions or those cheating the chapter limits. Otherwise, some fleet-based chapter in bumfuck nowhere that'll swoop in once the fighting is almost over and destroy the weakened remains.
>>46949788
I WAS going to say Black Templars, but then GW retconned them into having only a little more than 1 thousand men.
They've lost some of their cool factor because of this, in my opinion. I liked that they were an almost legion. Why'd they retcon that, man?
>>46949788
Blood ravens forever.
inb4 DoW fanboy
>>46949911
Cato Sicarus was being overshadowed.
>>46949911
Gotta trim some fat to get into the vanilla book.
>>46949788
probably grey knights cause they have the backing of the ordo malleus or ultramarines because of their empire.
Ok guys, I'm new to W40k, and I really don't want to be regretting what I do :/
I am a giant Blood Ravens fan, and I want to create a working chapter of my own resembling them. The question is now, do I go with the Blood Angels or normal Space marines?
How do I go about building armies? If I were to buy let's say a group assualt marines, a group of devestators, a group of tacticals and a Force commander-ish character to start with, would that work?
Which Space Marine chapter has the most named characters?
Bonus points if they're useful.It's Ultramarines, isn't it?
>>46949911
>>46949951
It's not like having several thousand marines changes much about the stats of them in the vanilla book.
I could get if they wanted to trim it down to 2000 or something just so it's a bit less drastic, but their entire point was Crusading to get past that limit.
>>46950027
>It's Ultramarines, isn't it?
I thought so too but its actually space wolves, ultramarines are second.
>>46950031
look man i've had a rough day as well, want a hug? otherwise you won't get a legit answer because there isn't one. you should be more upset over no new relics or formations black templars can use
>>46949520
Sisters versus Tyranids.
I am holding out for plastic Sisters, tho.
>>46949625
Would be too OP.
Plus, the drop pods are designed specifically to avoid obstacles for the safety of their passengers, and if the situation called for space ships to drop stuff on the enemy, it would make more sense to, ya know, actually fire the weapons of the ship against the enemy.
I know, canonically, there's no reason a drop pod wouldn't flatten a pile of gaunts, but in canon, gaunts generally travel in swarms (when they're not underground, indoors, or in spaces too confined for drop pods), and you wouldn't be able to discharge the troops of the drop pod safely when there's a tide of thousands of hormagaunts or orks charging against it.
Drop-pods are re-usable and are for securing a perimeter through precision deployment in extremely rapid time. Even the Deathstorm drop pods are designed for use in that type of circumstance - you plonk them on the edge of your drop-podded force's perimeter, and when they've exhausted their missile supply, the troops you sent into the "inner zone" can footslog out to form a perimeter cohesive with the deathstorm pods.
Most of the "claw" drop pods aren't really the same thing, because they were basically ship-to-ship boarding vehicles that were repurposed to be ground-attack vehicles.
>>46949911
I don't know what canon you're basing this off of.
But even then there's canon saying that, the way I've heard 40k canon talked about was "everything is canon, but not everything is true". There's always a ____ "lost in the warp/beyond contact range", or "records lost to time/purged".
Plus the Templars wouldn't be able to operate like they did if they behaved like a Codex chapter, so whoever came up with the idea that they have a thousand men is stupid. Them tending to work in only groups of a thousand men at a time, or functioning like regular chapters with 1000 men instead of a hundred in their "companies", would make sense.
>>46949788
Chaos.
>>46950022
blood angels have nothing to do with blood ravens lore wise. They aren't related in any way so use Codex Adeptus Astartes Space Marines to make your blood angels army. Yes those are good starting squads, but it's best to buy them one at a time so you don't get behind in painting and build up a large backlog.
>>46950123
Anon it's like you read my mind, how'd you know I was thinking of using drop pods to squish my friend's guants?
The reasoning makes sense. I just wish it could happen sometimes.... especially when he has them bunched into a huge blob. I want to crash down into that blob with all of my drop pods and watch my marines carve their way to his faggot Flyrant.
>>46950216
to make your blood ravens army*
>>46950123
Mate, it was an executive(?) decision by GW confirmed by a BL author. I can't find the screencap of where he said it, but I saw it on another thread earlier.
>>46948486
I just want to know if I can beat my buddy's list
>>46949520
Sisters vs Necrons, screencap this ya heretics.
>>46950249
So I go with normal SMs? And going with the DoW2 line up would work?
>>46950022
Normal space marines are better. Blood Angels and Blood Ravens aren't actually that similar.
As for army building, you need an HQ and 2 troops to start with unless you go for a formation.
You might consider going for the Start Collecting Space Marines box to give you a good jumping off point. Then you can add some assault marines and devastators onto that for a solid force.
One good tip is to try and avoid mixing guns and not going overboard on upgrades. Other than that, you should be fine.
>>46949520
Imperial Guard vs. Necrons, Tyranids, or Tau.Really, I just want that so I can get more IG and introduce my friends to the game.
>>46950283
I mean I guess but it's a very small point count and wouldn't do much.
>>46949911
DELETE THIS POST IMMEDIATELY
>>46949911
>>46950123
>>46950268
Here's my proof!
>>46950095
Yeah, I am more upset about the lack of relics and whatnot. It's really annoying the general treatment they've been getting from GW though. Just because they're in the vanilla book doesn't mean they have to be made as generic as possible.
>>46950283
Check the links in the OP. Read up on the codex some. Ask around or look at lists online for the preffered loadouts of assault marines, tacticals, devastators, and captains before you finish assembling them, or just make them fluffy how you want. Your going to need a lot more than those boxes for a full army though.
>>46950298
this man has good advice too.
>>46946168
The Wyvern isn't exactly a bad or average unit either. Just because 300 points of Wyverns isn't as OP as a WK doesn't mean Wyverns don't wreck face.
Also I'm pretty sure I'd rather face 1 WK than 300 points of other cheesy stuff simply because it's only one target you have to deal with.
>>46950376
oh anon, it's worse then being generic; at least generic gets the toys
>>46950298
The guys at GW told me the SM Start collecting box wasn't that great value-wise and I wouldn't use some of the units later.
What exactly counts as troops?
Are there some strictly superior HQs?
>>46950405
Thing is I wanna be able to play and enjoy my time doing it, so I try to ask for many opinions, last time people told me BAs would work for my Blood ravens
Sorry for asking so many questions
>>46949858
Who told you about our classified operating procedures?
>>46950474
The Terminator Captain and the Dread can totally be used, I don't know what the fuck they're talking about.
>>46946168
Low.quality.bat
>>46950523
>Doesnt even post fish
Any rumor of how FMCs are going to deal with the new flier shit?
>>46950559
Why would I post tau?
>>46950022
>>46950474
Blood Angels don't work for Blood Ravens. The person who told you that doesn't know what he's talking about. Blood Ravens use Codex: Space Marines, with an undefined Chapter Tactic, meaning you can choose to copy any chapter in Codex: Space Marines you want.
The Start Collecting Space Marine box is good and can be used as a standalone formation, meaning even when you have a "real" army you can still plug in this small group of models to gain their unique rules.
However, the only universally useful models in that box are the regular marines. The Terminator Captain is a popular model but not the best leader model, and that Dreadnought will not be used ANYWHERE except in that small starter box formation.
You should buy the models you like. You can probably figure out how to make your collection at least playable once you're more experienced. I don't think there's a way to build a bad marine army nowadays since even their worst units like Vanguard Veterans, Assault Marines, and Land Speeders are now useful in some kind of formation.
The best purchases will be normal tactical marines, Rhinos or Drop Pods, bikers, grav gun parts, Centurion Devastators, and Librarians.
The best space marine units are Librarians, who also fit the Blood Raven theme of having more Librarians than usual.
>>46950474
Don't listen to them. Blood Angels are in no way related to Blood Ravens. The only similarity they have in the lore is that they have the word "blood" in their names. They don't share the same values or combat doctrine. There's some stuff on Blood Ravens in the Space Marine codex I think (not sure) so go check it out in rules database at the top.
As for the start collecting box it depends if you like the contents or not. The captain and tactical squad are almost always useful. The dread too if you like them.
>>46946088
Cancer photo with cancer edition. Op confirmed for tumor.
>>46950591
>(you)
How am I supposed to get off if you cant even give me a proper (You)?
>>46950538
Just did some translations to the $ on Google, and the Brits save more than we do.
>>46950618
Not OP, but what's wrong with the pic?
>>46950474
>What exactly counts as troops?
Go download Codex: Space Marines and you can find out. Marine troops are usually Scouts and Tactical Marines. Some special chapters and heroes can unlock Terminators, Bikes, and Assault Marines as troops.
The best HQs are Librarians. Chaplains and Captains are required for Battle Company. Chapter Masters can beat the shit out of almost anything in the game 1v1 but they are very expensive so most people would rather just take 2-3 Librarians instead.
>>46950474
The Start collecting box isn't the best deal out of the boxes, but you effectively get the Captain for free. Everything in there can be used just fine, though they might not be the most top-tier options.
Troops for marines are basic Tactical Marines and Scouts. You need 5 tactical marines or Scouts for a basic squad, so you'll need 10 total to fulfill your troops requirement.
Some HQs are more useful than others, particularly in a specific force. For starting, I'd suggest a Librarian or Captain, as they tend to be the most universally applicable.
If you want to avoid the box, I'd suggest starting small with a Tactical marine box. Space Marines have a lot of solid options, so picking up the units you like is always a decent choice.
>>46950618
I agree, needs a chicken.
I was reading Necromunda Stuff and started looking at the lore behind spyrers and their hunter rigs and I was asking myself what's /tg/ 's opinion on it.
What do you think about them?
>>46950683
>>46950654
OP keeps removing shit from the OP image and "enhancing" it to his personal tastes. The chicken is one thing, but he is a tau fag in denial and keeps removing the female tau spure head from the OP picture.Watch as he comes back saying he plays orks
>>46950705
Aren't those the human ganger warp spiders/Tau XV8?
>>46950671
If you go on Ebay you can get the Deathwatch Overkill set of 525 points for $50 or less. That is a way, way better deal and comes with a fairly cool formation.
>>46950730
Yeah, if you want to play Deathwatch. It's probably not going to be the best option for starting up a normal marine army.
>>46950730
It's $65 for the whole marine set, which is still an incredible deal. I thought it would be higher since the box itself is way more expensive than that x2, and each marine sells for $8-10 by himself.
>>46948484
But anon, if you bought the box in 6th edition, now is the chance you have been waiting for to properly expand your force and add vrosh!
>>46950618
Almost went two generals with no picture mention
>>46950772
The draw I think is the Genestealers, so lots of people resell the marines.
>>46950805
The blank one is better then this shit.
>>46950719
>emoving the female tau spure head
What?
>>46950671
>>46950669
>>46950613
>>46950608
>>46950538
>>46950513
Thanks guys!
I think I will start by getting a tactical squad, and try creating Tarkus' unit
>>46950608
>even their worst units like Vanguard Veterans, '''Assault Marines'''
Are assault marines actually bad or are they (like in the DoW Games) in need of special tactics?
>>46950812
Doesn't the Genestealer side come with tons more stuff too? I don't think the box is 50/50 in terms of models/plastic.
>>46950724
Yes, in the lore they have this hunting rigs, which are armors that evolve by themself based on the abilities and experience of the wearer. Also capable of self-repairing
>>46950821
Put the blank one up then but whatever you do, preface it with shutting the fuck up about the picture
>>46950827
More models, it is 550 points for marines and 600 points for stealers, but you get the amazing Patriarch and some of the coolest models ever on the genestealer side. Like cultist/genestealers with four attacks each, cultists with lascannons and armor for a fraction of the cost, and ogryn genestealer thingys.
>>46950823
White Dwarf released an article on the new Tau drop and commented on how you can now make your pilot a female tau instead. The resulting head was dogshit ugly and made most tau fags go on suicide watch because their waifu pictured female taus were confirmed for shit.
>>46948471
They look goofy because those models are old as shit. Literally the oldest models in the vanilla marine line right now. The power armor guys, some of whom were just as old all got updated years ago.
>>46950825
Assasult marines aren't the greatest, but play what you like, especially when starting. Remember to paint and play what you think is cool and mix in useful units to back up those cool ones.
>>46950895
I really dislike how terminators look.
But I don't know how to make them look better.
>>46950825
Assault marines tend to struggle because they don't have quite enough killing power. Chapter tactics and Formations can help with that somewhat, but they need to be played more carefully.
It's important to have a clear idea of what your assault squad will be going after as well, since their equipment can make them better suited for different targets.
>>46950772
>It's $65 for the whole marine set, which is still an incredible deal
Isn't the whole set all of 10ish models?
Sounds like you're getting ripped off.
>>46950825
The problem with assault marines is that they are normal marines in a time when everything "good" can kill normal marines easily, and they are a fairly average melee unit in a time when melee is very difficult to reach and only the fastest toughest and strongest melee units can dominate the enemy and push through heavy fire.
Assault marines become the best units in the game only when you take special armies that allow them to deep strike on to the table on the first turn AND charge immediately. This solves all their problems: they are no longer in danger of shooting since they will be in melee at the beginning of the game, they don't have problems reaching melee since you can just jump on top of them guaranteed with the special rules, and their average strength can be used against weaker enemies (by targeting them first) to slaughter them rather than bouncing off tough enemies that the opponent would normally attempt to intercept you with or hide behind.
Assault marines by themselves are fairly mediocre. You need to at least use Raven Guard or White Scars to give them a boost in speed or damage.
>>46950825
Assault Marines mostly just struggle against tougher melee units. They can take out non-melee units or weaker horde models just fine, especially with Flamers, but against things with a good save they can struggle. Just pick your fights carefully with them and they can do pretty well.
>>46950887
Ah. I was wondering why some OP pics had derp faces.
>>46950965
True beauty.
>>46950221
Ha, no, it's just that they're the most vulnerable to that kind of attack. They're small, weak, stupid, and bunch up in large enough numbers for the drop pod attack to work like that.
Also, everyone loves Starship Troopers.
>>46950268
>>46950363
That's fucking gay as fuck, if some pencil-pushing corporate fraaaaauuuuuud (insert Mr Plinkett voice here) decides to turn every chapter into cookie-cutter Sigmarine Ultrasmurfs.
Still, it's not the same thing as totally undoing the fluff. It's a lame re-purposing of the fluff.
Weird, considering how once Horus Heresy finishes (years away, no doubt), we'll be bound to get a Black Templar founding novel. Hopefully this "decree" will be overturned or ignored by then.
>>46950474
>The guys at GW told me the SM Start collecting box wasn't that great value-wise and I wouldn't use some of the units later.
Yeah, that's okay advice. The Terminator captain isn't that great, and a lot of people think Dreadnoughts are overrated.
You're better off buying something small first and getting the hang of it (be prepared for a few models to be "relics", rather than good paintjob quality), then if you're really into space marines, you should see if you could get that old deal, the "Battle Demi Company".
I don't see it on their website, which is weird.
It was literally half a company (minus 5 men each from the assault and dev squad), and functioned as a formation-capable army for less than ~200 euro.
>>46950966
Would've cost you $30 per model normally. They're all HQ level. The RG guy is literally Shrike with some changes.
>>46950825
Assault Marines suck
Vanguard Veterans are better since they can get melee weapon upgrades for cheap, making them way more efficient at killing even though their baseline cost is also increased to reflect their superior quality
Once you make that Tactical Squad, add a Scout squad and a Librarian, and that can start your army off on good footing
>>46950669
If the Imperial Fists had a character that made Devastator squads troops, would that make Devs better?Would be even better if said character was from a successor like the Hammers of Dorn.
Does anyone have an Angels of Death scan?
>>46951036
>people think Dreadnoughts are overrated.
I personally don't like dreadnoughts all that much myself .-. but jump packs are my shit.
>>46950895
>"they're over there!"
>"hold on guys i dropped my book"
>"no they're over here!"
How do you deal with lucky stick warboss?
>>46951298
if you absolutely love jump packs then maybe you SHOULD look at blood angels, one of their successors, or make your own successor using their codex. They get a couple elite jump pack units that regular marines don't get. Blood ravens specialty in the lore is relics and librarians and knowledge.
>>46951298
You know if walkers had the ability to move 12 somehow they might actually be worth taking over MCs
>>46951330
>BROTHER WHY DO YOU INSIST ON BRINGING YOUR BOOK TO EVERY BATTLE
>EVERY TIME YOU DROP IT
>>46951348
D-Thirsters, Titans, Eldar, tarpit.
