How Jewish should dwarfs be?
>>46830964
>dwarves
>not gnomes
Anon, please.
Also, something something Goodwin, something something Hitler.
>>46830964
They circumcise at adolescence, when the foreskin is loose enough to pull forward and hit with an axe.
>>46830987
Why not axe it 8 days after birth? Jewarfs are hardcore.
>>46830964
This isn't actually a joke. Tolkien really did base his dwarves on jews. Told his friends so and everything.
>>46830964
Very much so.
>>46831093
This.
Dwarves are literally jews with a couple extra features so it's not incredibly obvious that they're jews.
>>46830982
Diaspora Jews or Israeli Jews?
My dwarves are diaspora brand, full medieval.
>>46831093
Technically he based them on Semitics, of which Jews are the most well known but not the sole group of.
>>46833385
The language he based on Semitic, like Hebrew. The dwarfs were specifically Jewish. Journey for their lost homeland and diaspora status and all.
>>46833595
Not to mention the noses, stature, greed and beards.
>>46834289
And also all their good features. I think it's fairly important to note Tolkien thre that in as well.
Wandering skilled workers who know how to keep a hold of their wealth, have a strong sense of community, and are searching for a lost homeland?
Speaking as someone who grew up jewish, they Jews. Hell, the entire "going mad over gold" thing is ripped from an old tale in the Talmud.
>>46830964
They already are pretty Jewish.
-Often have a lost homeland they want to reclaim.
-Keep their own, often secret gods.
-Sequester their women and guard them vigilantly.
-Grow long beards as adults and do not brook any sort of interference with them.
-Often associated with craftsmen, especially metalworkers and jewelers.
Even in settings that discard Tolkien, this is all often still true. There are some oddballs, like the one where dwarfs almost never even see their women.
>>46830964
Well, how Jewish they *should* be of course varies from DM to DM.
For my own part I actually tend to take inspiration from Tsarist Russia through the 19th century. The dwarves were hugely powerful back in the day and on paper are still a mighty force, but their isolationism and traditionalism have led to stagnation in the face of the advancement of other races; and their leaders today are not up to the same tasks that their leaders from centuries ago were.
>>46836222
>often secret
Name one setting where dwarves worship a secret god
>>46834608
Yeah, Tolkien was surprisingly tolerant of Jews for his time.
How many settings besides Sapkowski's feature dwarfish bankers?
>>46840153
Eberron, House Kundarak.
>>46831093
They're more from the Norse Dwarfs in crafting & shit.
bump for dorfwank
>>46839908
Tolkien himself seemed like a weird mix of different political ideologies and religous views. (Hated Nazi's and Germanys aproch to Nordic mythology, but hated the allies using total war, and want the British Empire and united kingdom up)
So basically, a normal human being that just hated changes to his personal life.
>>46830964
>comparing dwarves to jews
shameful senpai
>>46849858
Tolkien's Dwarves are based on jews. He even said so
>>46830964
My main problem with this is that Dwarves aren't afraid of hard work and manual labor
>>46850775
While the stereotype of the diaspora Jew is that of a rich merchant or banker, statistically speaking, especially in Eastern Europe, most Jews were starving poor. While they were ever so slightly better educated than the average Polish serf, for example (one advantage of their religious lifestyle meant literacy was always nearly universal, even in times where it was otherwise rare) their social status made it near impossible to get good jobs. They'd work as woodsmen, miners, fishermen, or at most, small time craftsmen (like shoemakers and coopers, not goldsmiths). The situation of the Orthodox Jews in Israel today is unique: according to Jewish law, "Bread comes before the Torah", meaning one should not dedicate their lives to religion if that would cause their family to starve. It's a very practical guideline for a time where the Jews were a practical people. Unfortunately, the Israeli Orthodox Jews have decided to stretch that guideline into "...and if it's possible to assure your family wouldn't starve, you MUST dedicate your life to religion over any other work". Since the law in Israel allows them to live off welfare, THEY SEE IT AS THEIR SACRED DUTY NOT TO DO ANY PRODUCTIVE WORK. They just study the Torah and pray every single day of their adult lives.
>>46830964
They miss and long for their homeland.
They are pretty insular, though they have a strong tradition of appreciation for non-Dwarf friends of their community. They are suspicious of outsiders, but if you manage to befriend a Dwarf, the whole community will general have a good opinion of you.
There's a certain amount of prejudice and conspiracy theories about them, but most of it's unfounded.
Despite a lot of comical physical stereotypes about them, they've actually got a history as pretty fearsome warriors.
Their religion is an important aspect of their culture, though not all Dwarfs practice it. It has influenced many major religions in the world, but the "pure" Dwarf religions is practiced more or less exclusively by Dwarves.
Love wine, gambling and a good costume party, yet are also pretty dour in a lot of their traditions.
>>46850846
Actually, the most stereotypical job for a diaspora Jew was a paddler, which is still technically a merchant (read Shai Agnon's "The Lady and the Peddler"), just a very, very poor one. While it's true most of them were probably either farmers or miners, depending on geography, that's like pointing out most medieval Scandinavians were not actually pirates.
For another example, consider the folklore of diaspora Jews: the main character is almost always either a wandering peddler or Talmid (Jewish scholar, but you need to understand that in context this has no associations with wealth. A very good Talmid can still live hand to mouth). Generally speaking the plot involves them wandering/traveling into a new community, running into some kind of human or supernatural problem such a cruel boyar or a ghost, and either defeating them or, more commonly, escaping them with their lives using the powers of logic and theological knowledge.
>>46850928
>but most of it's unfounded
>>46850846
>>46850971
That was very informative and interesting thank you. It's nice to see something about jews that isn't related to gas.
>>46850971
Might that not be because those are the two jobs that travel from town to town? Very fun to hear about the folktales though.
>this thread isn't full of /pol/ level garbage
impressive.
>>46851351
>Your face when it's actually full of /pol/ but you haven't gotten triggered yet because they're hiding their power levels
>>46851351
I'm here, I don't see anything wrong.
dwarves are jews, it's plain to see.
>>46852269
>confirmation bias
classic /pol/
>>46852280
>confirmation bias
Tolkien said it, quite plainly.
Wait, if the dwarves were diaspora Jews, and the Lonely Mountain is Israel, would that make Smaug the Palestinians?
>>46852416
>Smaug the Palestinian
From a race that is:
Greedy
Cunning
Spits fire
Extremely violent
Has Satanic overtones
Yeah, sounds about right.
>>46840153
Warhammer had a Dwarf in Marienburg, Arkat Fooger IIRC, inventing the insurance business. The plot hook was that he he was the one who got exploited. Great npc to use, a community leader for all non-humans in Marienburg, but not many ties to the old culture which made the minority of more traditional dwarves resentful.
>>46852416
That would be Esgaroth. They were the guys that stayed and adapted.
Dorfs just did not start with the whole "only Jews are people!" thing.
>>46852516
But Esgaroth is Novgorod
>>46830964
They are nordic anyway.
>>46852538
>faggy midgets obsessed with wealth
>nordic
Nice try, Isaac
>>46836924
name one where they don't
>>46851351
you'll find the /pol/fags in the aussie thread complaining about monkey conspirations:
>>46851276
Wolsung has Jewish gnomes
>>46836180
Don't forget that they mourn by tearing their clothes and sitting silent for 7 days.
>>46830964
Extremely.
>>46850846
Jew here, can confirm that the Hasidim are the worst possible human beings.
>>46830964
GO read Discworl. Roughly that Jewish.
>>46856112
Aren't Hasidim the good kind of ultra-Orthodox?
>>46840153
How many fantasy settings feature banking full stop?
>>46833595
Aside from the jews, there is a lot of the Nibelungen in Tolkien's dwarfs.
The rings, the lust for treasure, kingdom of miners living in fortresses in the mountains. And Alberich their king was a dwarf often pictured as bearded, too.
I think they got their shit wrecked and had to leave their mines in some old poem, but it has been a long time since I've read norse or germanic mythology.
>>46857793
modern banking or medieval banking?
>>46857891
A thing to remember with tolkien is that he was basing the jewish aspects of dwarves off of middle ages rather than modern stereotypes and folklore.
That's why the idea of dwarves as jewelers and craftsman is considered a jewish trait.
Most likely, he found similarities between the nibelungen and medieval jews, then decided to mix the two archetypes together. So that's why the dwarven language uses a nordic runic style script but the language itself is semitic.
>>46858253
In grammar.
Tolkien was an obsessive linguist. Some even claim that he invented Middle Earth primarily for the reason of having a "linguistic playground" within which he could experiment with new forms of language as if they belonged to a real culture. He was inspired by the grammar of Semitic languages when designing Khudzul (or whatever the dwarf language is called). I don't actually know Semitic grammar so I have no idea about the specific influences, though.
>>46830964
>>46860979
>>46860999
Holy fucking damn.
Fili, Kili, Oin, Gloin, and Schlomo.
In the 1800s
-Persians have big noses
-Arabs are greedy
-Turks complain about everything
-Jews are sneaky
In the 1900s
-Jews have big noses
-Jews are greedy
-Jews complain about everything
-Jews are sneaky
I miss the loss of diversity in our stereotypes...
>>46830964
I'd say about 40-60% depending on how viking they are
>>46846303
He just hated war, even when he knew it needed to be done.
He also called Nordicists retarded, which was great because it was still that time when there where actual Nordicists.
>>46861654
His experiences in WWI and with industrialized warfare made him disillusioned about war being some great and glorious thing. Having actually experienced it, he was a lot more cognizant of the horrors of war than most upper class british.
>>46861089
Jewy, the Eighth dwarf nobody talks about.
>>46858788
He apparently had a bit of a problem when he made "dwarvish-sounding" names like Balin and Thorin and so on, with a fairly strong norse base, but then came up with the Semitic language for the dwarves and struggled to get the two to mesh, as Semetic names are nothing like that. But being a linguist and a massive nerd, he stressed over it, then got it to work, from a linguistic point of view.
>>46861244
Two things
First, Jews are everywhere - they spread out, and after a good few thousand years of being kicked out of places they have a culture that preserves itself when moved - it's very similar in a lot of places, even if it's been somewhere for years (also why you see Jewish bankers, peddlers, merchants, doctors, academics, lawyers and comedians, none of those things require property, and all of them pretty much work anywhere, so long as you're good at learning).
So they're everywhere, and basically the same, which is useful when more people talk to people from other countries - coming together to bitch about the Jews across the continent, who while they might not be the BEST examples of big noses/greed/complainers, they are at least consistently big nosed/greedy/complaining, are at least people you can all agree are big nosed/greedy/complaining
Second, the diaspora from half a continent to the US, which will then go on to dominate media in the west. Add the comedians and actors (again, professions that don't require much, and aren't traditional to any respectable class) and Jews become a big force, especially as the cultural impact of the Old World fades
>>46856112
Completely agree.
>>46857342
No, they aren't. You know the crazy ultra-conservative Christians? yeah, that's the Hasidim. They're the ones getting the fucking insane laws passed in Israel, and they control the Chief Rabbi of Israel (who they claim to be in charge of all Jews, unless said Jew is not a Jew and therefore a culture-killing heretic), who has stated that all laws of Israel apply to all Jews above the laws of their home nation.
They're also looking at forcibly drafting all Jews from around the world into the Israeli army.
>>46833385
ok schlomo, quit being so embarrassed about your goldloving hairy people.
>>46861244
As a 100% purebred American WASP, I feel your pain.
>>46850928
>but most of it's unfounded.
DIDF pls go.
>>46830964
there's other kinds of dwarves?
>>46830964
Well they keep their word and value honesty pretty highly, so I'd say not much.
>>46864823
>He apparently had a bit of a problem when he made "dwarvish-sounding" names like Balin and Thorin and so on, with a fairly strong norse base, but then came up with the Semitic language for the dwarves and struggled to get the two to mesh, as Semetic names are nothing like that. But being a linguist and a massive nerd, he stressed over it, then got it to work, from a linguistic point of view.
Actually, he didn't. He just came up with the idea that the Nordic sounding names were those the dwarves were using in public, while communicating with none dwarves. They also have secret, true names which are presumably Semitic sounding, but are never used among strangers.
>>46861244
The stereotypes changed pretty hard over time.
>>46864996
>They're also looking at forcibly drafting all Jews from around the world into the Israeli army.
Except themselves naturally.
Also Hassidic enclaves are creepy and cultlike, naturally without the "Recruiting" part of cult behavior because they're devoted to inbreeding instead.
>>46876193
Gee, I wonder who wrote this chart...
>>46876250
It's in german, but he's definitely a Spainaboo too.
>>46876250
Honestly, it seems to portray the Spanish in the best light.
>>46876265
Actually, the Germans get a pretty flattering description, too.
>>46876250
>>46876265
>>46876322
>>46876358
Probably Austrian - Which had, at that time, two peoples as it's ruling classes: Germans in Cisleitania and the Spanish in the iberian peninsula.
>>46876358
Well no shit, it's clearly BY a german.
>>46876193
also, just so you know, a lot of this is mis-translated
>>46876393
Feel free to fix it then Jerry.
>>46876393
As I would expect it to be. This shit is written in barely legible ancient german. Still, most of the juiciest bits look right and it's not like truth ever got in the way of a good laugh around here.
>>46864996
>tyrannical Over-Jew seeking the subjugation of all Jewry
Jewish Global Civil War when??
>>46876193
>Turk
>typical disease: Impotence
C U C K T U R K
U
C
K
T
U
R
K
>>46830964
Not very jewish at all.
They tend to value physical materials, like gold and gems.
But Jews want to make currency that isn't tied to gold and gems at all, and exists purely as fiat.
And to force nations to accept loans of their "made out of thin air" currency at interest
So that way they get purchasing power equivalent to ~6% of a nation's total money supply, every year, without needing any physical resources at all.
If you made a Dwarf a jew he wouldn't be mining or defending a fortress
He'd be sitting in town forcing policies that make criticising his usury illegal and """hiring""" adventurers (on his own imaginary money) to go kill off the ppl who want to take back control of their currency.
Here's a better question.
How jewish should dragons be?
>>46876437
there's just too much. secular law is just law, not natural science, ecclesiasitcal law isn't biblical science it's just that: law ot the catholic church, what is translated here as 'sea related' is actually the liberal arts, 'infinitely rough' should be 'infinitely jolly', it's just a mess.
>>46876920
>Over-Jew
my sides.
>>46868221
>purebreed
>American
Unless you're on the reservation or got genocided over a century ago I don't think you count as purebreed anything.
>>46877329
>he thinks Injuns are pure
Them's fightin' words, boy
>>46852416
"palestinians" aren't the ones who "stole" their land, everyone who lived there was a palestinian, christians, jews, islamists, before jews start fucking up that zone it even has a significant buddhist population. The allies fucked shit up, then the jews fuckep shit up.
>>46860979
source? that looks fucking gold
>>46877498
>natives aren't pure
>never travelled more than a few kilometers from their birthplace
>not pure
DUDE
>>46877683
>mutant Kamchatkans and Siberians
>pure
Get real
>>46877699
>europeans are neanderthal interbreed
>asians non human variants interbreed
>americas natives have also interbreed with non humans
dude, i'm not talking about this much back "pureness", if we try talking about it the only pure humans are some subsaharan tribesmen
>>46831093
>>46831775
>I read a buzzfeed "article" now I am an expert for Tolkien and literature,
Their language is based in Semitic languages but just like all the other free people they are based on the Germanic and generally northern European myths or at least Tolkien's understanding of such.
This whole dwarves=Jews thing is a fabrication from the early 2000s from some glorified blogger who wanted to gain some traction and swim the Lotr wave.
It does not hold up when you read further into the dwarven lore beyond the main 4 books.
>>46833385
technically, you based this on semantics, of which arbitrary redefinitions are the most well known but not the sole type of
/s you are fine man I just thought of a good semitics/semantics pun
>>46830964
>How Jewish should dwarfs be?
Anytime anyone brings up any measure of adversity or hardship, no matter how large or small, the Dwarfs remind you about the 6 gorillion of their people who were killed by a vicious warlord.
>>46877759
There was talk a few years ago that there was a sub-species native to South Africa and surrounding areas and there being possible evidence of it left in local blood.
Haven't read anything about it since.
If it turns out to be true then there are actually no pure humans left anywhere and humanity is completely mongrel.
>>46878220
that study says that there is little to no vestiges of non human blood on most of inner africa. This pic is just a general idea, you can read the entire thing if you want more details about exactly what they got with those results.
>>46830964
Well around this time of year they don't eat bread.
If you're going the Jewish Dwarf route, would a dwarf lich's phylactery be their phylactery?
>>46878483
Isn't that kind of the point of dwarf bread though?
>>46834608
What good features?
>>46876193
>lordly, wise, manly, literate, honorable, nobly, the best
>tfw you choose the wrong century to be a spaniard
>>46877932
This.
Tolkien also hated representative readings of his work, and used the voice of the author hard a lot of the time to undermine these sorts of interpretations. Also see the whole pellenor plains = his experiences in the war.
It's just bullshit, shallow similarities.
Tolkien also said he wanted to expand on the Dwarren and Orcish lore-spheres as well, so a lot of what we have is what he wanted to build from, the more familliar points.
>>46879033
>Tolkien also hated representative readings of his work
I forgot my literature terms, but that basically means that he hated people trying to analyze his books for a deeper political or personal meaning right?
>>46879066
Yeah. All these intellectuals saying lotr is ww1 and shit like that
>>46851052
>>46872449
I love how you didn't provide anything to challenge it, you just said "WRONG! WRONG! WRONG!"
What, are you a fucking feminist?
>>46830982
Gnomes are just shitty midget dwarves that have no reason to exist ever
>>46878742
According to Tolkien:
Loyalty, nobility, hospitality, intelligence, ingenuity, craftsmanship, stubbornness (can be good or bad depending on the situation; would be good in a "never give up" situation)
>>46877653
Ralph Bakshi animated hobbit movie from the 70's.
>>46879723
You're telling me a race can have both bad AND good qualities?
Get the fuck out.
>>46851351
The dwarves haven't started advocating for weapon confiscation or welcoming orcs into the cities of men. The dwarves are the benign type of Jew that not even /pol/ hates.
>>46876963
Hey guys, if you're looking for /pol/, here he is.
>>46880692
>>46876963
>>46883339
Shut up, Adam. We killed you for a reason.
>>46858788
> I don't actually know Semitic grammar so I have no idea about the specific influences, though.
It's almost to the level of copy and pasting: All Khuzdul verbs are built around triconsonantal roots where you stick in various vowels, prefixes, and suffixes depending on how exactly the verb is being used, which is lifted directly from Hebrew.
>>46876963
.....Wait, THIS is the source of all the jew hate? THIS conspiracy?
>>46877932
Here's a source for you faggot, since you're too lazy assuming that everything that offends your celebrity ideas comes from Buzzfeed:
http://muse.jhu.edu/article/513824
Here's a relevant quote from Tolkien himself from the interview:
>In a BBC radio interview with Dennis Gueroult, recorded in 1964 and broadcast the next year, Tolkien connected his Dwarves with the Jewish people, stating: “The Dwarves of course are quite obviously—wouldn’t you say that in many ways they remind you of the Jews? Their words are Semitic obviously, constructed to be Semitic."
Look the shit up before you accuse someone else of being wrong before you make an ass of yourself, fucktard. Tolkien's dwarves being jewish stereotypes isn't a fucking internet theory, it comes from the mouth of fucking Tolkien himself.
>>46834289
Considering that Tolkein had a huge amount of disgust for the anti semitic policies of the Nazis, .
Quoting from a letter he wrote once
"But if I am to understand that you are enquiring whether I am of Jewish origin, I can only reply that I regret that I appear to have no ancestors of that gifted people."
I very much doubt he was some huge anti Semite, and instead simply took some traits from a group that he knew of an used them to create a race in his books.
>>46876393
Does "Selbsteigne Lieb" actually mean masturbation?
