Previous Thread: >>46254874
http://pastebin.com/gsYUFPGD
Based David A Hill put out a preview of the Changeling 2e book, sans layout of course.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1-dLCFRmow4sm3dC-Dy6_mvV009gCcThRruJEThXYNkc/edit#heading=h.joe4ax4c23xn
Thoughts?
Where were you when he released that weeks ago? I'd like to give it a spin and I know Aspel was doing some Court Generation, but I don't think anyone here's played it yet. A lot of my group isn't so hot on Changeling 2e in general so I don't think I'll be able to get them to try out the rules.
Chronicles ofArchmages.
>>46289256
That sounds like an 80s cartoon title.
Would embeoidery be crafts or expression?
>>46289254
I found out of the document in the OP on Thursday, when it was linked to me via Skype. I'm right now reading the contracts and I'm really itching to play.
>>46289220
There's also been a few changes to the rules. For instance, Harvesting emotions has been revised, and David posted the new rules in the relevant OP forum thread.
>>46289310
Sculpture is crafts, if I'm not mistaken, so I'd go the same way here.
>>46289310
Crafts.
Crafts covers everything from fixing jet engines to macrame.
>>46289313
http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/main-category/main-forum/the-new-world-of-darkness/changeling-the-lost/831430-changeling-playtestable-chunks
This is the thread for it?
>>46289069
>I've heard that both forsaken and pure can join the same lodge, how does that work?
Fairly straightforwardly; either the totem doesn't particularly care about the Forsaken/Pure factional conflict, or there's some ideological or mystical reason that particular Pure and Forsaken are willing to come together over.
In practice, the 'This Tribe/Auspice Only' restrictions from 1e are basically gone so there's more room mechanically for more open Lodges to exist.
>Also how does lodges represent themselves at a Prorectorate?
>>46289369
Yes, that's one of the threads.
Here's the link to the revised Harvesting Glamour (And Reaping Glamour) rules:
http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/main-category/main-forum/the-new-world-of-darkness/changeling-the-lost/834729-harvesting-glamour-and-reaping-glamour-updated
>>46289434
Chris, The Pack is looking good.
However, what happened to your Rite creation rules?
>>46289530
Thank you! Gonna bookmark these.
Oops, forgot this bit:
>>Also how does lodges represent themselves at a Prorectorate?
Varies a lot on the nature of the Lodge. In some cases, a Lodge is a dominant local power or indeed the main reason a Protectorate exists.
Often Lodge members will perform some sort of caste or social role for local Uratha society; Lodge of Death adherents serving as the equivalent of funerary priests, Garmir as bodyguards for high-ranking Uratha and the like. This can mean they have power within a Protectorate based around that, or are looked to by the Protectorate for their expertise under specific circumstances. Many a Protectorate might expect members of the Lodge of Swords to take a leading role in conflict with the Pure, for example. Circumstances can mean that a Lodge has a great deal of leverage in a Protectorate, like the Seven Venoms during a period when a Protectorate is suffering serious problems with beshilu. Depending on the nature of a Protectorate and the power of the Lodges in question, Lodges might have their own representatives with serious influence within a Protectorate, seperate from the packs and Tribes of which they are a part.
It all depends a hell of a lot on local culture and the specifics of the Lodges and Protectorates in question, really, but Lodges are active political and religious units who are likely to want to further their own ends and beliefs within the framework that a Protectorate offers. Lodges are *not* just training groups or book clubs; they are *cults*.
>>46289256
Alright you got me. I totally that it was going to say fagness.
>>46289556
Making progress on, but life is being shite and I haven't had much energy for it.
Amateur but well-versed changeling player here, what's the best place to look for a game?
>>46289658
Game finder threads on /tg/ or roll the dice with Roll20.
>>46289595
Thanks for answering my question. Am running a chronicle in LA and sense the Lodge of the Shield was founded there I wanted to be sure of their place in an Protectorate.
Another question if you don't mind. Would the pure listen or even join the Lodge of the Shield?
Would it be under medecine or survival if i know about medicinal plants?
>>46289650
Sorry life is shite.
Since you're writing Rite Creation for free, we can certainly be patient. Just consider our nagging a high compliment on your work.
>>46289706
Medical plants could be under the purview of either Medicine or Survival depending on the particular context and application.
For instance, researching Amazonian plants for cancer fighting agents would be Medicine (or Science), while quickly formulating a paste from local berries and roots to fight poison ivy while hiking in the mountains is more Survival.
>>46289706
Medicine to know how to use them when you have then, Survival to find them in the wild. I'd just say focus on Medicine with a spare dot or two in Survival.
>>46289256
Don't you mean,
Chronicles ofMage Superiority
>>46289700
>Would the pure listen or even join the Lodge of the Shield?
I suspect that the sort of things the Lodge of the Shield deal with means that the Pure might have their own rival Lodge with a similar portfolio, but wouldnt be willing to share that ground with the Forsaken in one single Lodge.
>>46289797
I prefer
Chronicles ofGay Werewolves
Your Durance was one of isolation. Stolen away from your parents at a young age; an infant, in fact. Raised on a diet of faery food and drink, and bonded to the realm of the Fae from almost birth, you knew nothing else. Your Keeper styled herself after your mother, and who could doubt her, you who knew no different life? It would have been clear to anybody else that she knew of the concept only through the word itself. You were always more of a prized bird than a daughter. Locked in a cage with but one exit; it was the only home you ever knew.
In this case, the cage was a tower, hundreds of feet tall, and the exit but a single window that you could look from when you grew lonely. In the distance, you could almost think yourself to see flashes of light from time to time, but what they were and what they meant, you couldn't say and couldn't know. With shelves of books and many menial activities available to you, you weren't starved for things to do; merely for attention, affection, and anything else necessary for a growing girl. Any question of the world outside was quickly and violently beaten out of you.
"Do you wish to break mother's heart," your Keeper would ask. "Do you wish to leave me and be so cruel?" It continued like this for many years, but you couldn't be sure. The only markers of time were your growing body and ever-lengthening hair; sharp implements were strictly forbidden. Then one day, a stranger arrived at the tower. They looked like you, but were unlike you. Dark where you were fair, broad where you were thin. They were taller than you, and had hair growing from around their mouth. They offered the chance to escape, a chance you'd never had before and wouldn't have again. Your guilt and fear were great, but your curiosity won out. When your Keeper discovered you missing, she came for you herself, not trusting to Huntsmen.
After all, mother knows best.My friend wrote this. Thoughts?
Hey whats special about 5 dot hallow
>>46289871
It gives tons of mana.
>>46289849
>gf is in a play/musical
>it's Tangled
>ohgodno
>It's been almost a month and she keeps singing "After all, mother knows best" every once in a while
You triggered me.
Hey is boat navigation under drive athletics
>>46289959
Navigation? Survival
Sailing? Depends on the situation, and the type of boat
If, for example, you're on a sailboat in a storm, it'd be Str+Athletics to keep the sails in the right position so you can ge where you're going. If you're in a chase on speed boats, Dex+Drive
chronicles of fagness
>>46289871
>won
Isnt that a verge?
>>46290147
A Hallow and Verge are separate things, although a Verge can certainly be located at a Hallow.
In 2e, a higher rated Hallow provides more Mana, makes it easier to enter the Astral Realms, and possibly more as of yet undisclosed benefits.
>>46290195
You need 5 dot hallow to enter the astral?
>>46290302
>MAKES IT EASIER to enter the Astral Realms
>>46290302
>You need 5 dot hallow to enter the astral?
You did in 1E
>>46290302
In Mage 2e, you needed a Demesne or 5 dot Hallow to enter the Astral.
This has changed in 2e, and a mage can enter the Astral from a Hallow of any rating.
http://theonyxpath.com/terra-incognita-mage-the-awakening/
Per Dave,
"In the current edition, entering the Astral required a 5-dot Hallow or Demesne, plus one Mana. We’re changing that to any Hallow or Demesne, costing six minus the Hallow’s rating Mana, one Mana for a Demesne of a different Path or free for a Demense of the correct Path.?
>>46290398
>In Mage 2e, you needed a Demesne or 5 dot Hallow to enter the Astral.
1e, you mean.
>>46290647
Yea, it was a typo.
Any new mage merits for 2e?
>>46290766
Tons, most likely. We've only seen a small handful as of yet.
>>46290766
Dave has released a scattering of new merits in the various official spoilers and his comments here and elsewhere. I don't believe anyone has gathered and saved all of them. There will of course be more in the new book.
Are there other types of familars other than ghost and spirit?
>>46290978
There are also goetic familiars from the Astral.
>>46289706
>>46289796
>>46289770
Isn't there a merit for that? "Holistic Awareness" or something like that.
>>46290978
There's an Acamoth that can be used as a familiar in Summoners if I remember correctly. Though I wouldn't recommend going down that route.
>>46291179
And by Acamoth I might actually mean Gulmoth. It's been a while.
>>46290978
You can have Supernal familiars as well; basically the same as normal ones, except they work off of Mana instead of Essence IIRC.
If a vampire cut their abdomen open to store a weapon inside, would healing the wound grow over it or push it out?
>>46291209
Isnt there a multiple familiar merit to save up on dots?
>>46291217
If I were the ST, I'd rule that it would push it out, unless the vamp spent Willpower overnight to maintain the change.
>>46290766
We don't know what they are yet, but Dave has said that the new merits are so good that he seriously considered not letting Mages trade in starting Merit dots for more Gnosis, as that would amount to shooting themselves in the foot.
When "more powerstat" is the less-good option in the gameline where powerstat is included in every roll to do supernatural stuff, that's a pretty big deal.
>>46291209
>You can have Supernal familiars as well; basically the same as normal ones, except they work off of Mana instead of Essence IIRC.
2e has removed this option as it doesn't fit with the more-present Supernal World, apparently.
Apparently there may be a different, "supernal mentor" merit or something intended to replace it, though.
>>46289770
This is a really good excuse to grab and interdisciplinary specialty.
>>46291349
It was my understanding that supernal familiars were removed because supernal creatures are not like other ephemeral beings, and since "familiar" simply creates a new manifestation condition for ephemeral beings, they did not fit within the new familiar rules.
>>46289254
>I'd like to give it a spin and I know Aspel was doing some Court Generation
I really need to stop being lazy, but as usual depression is a bitch, and I don't want to run anything when I'm sleeping like 12 hours a day. There's a reason I haven't posted anything lately.
Sad thing is, I'm pretty sure I pissed one potential player off partly because of my reticence, and I'm pretty sure my depression spread to another.
>>46291424
That also sounds like a plausible explanation.
Dave mentioned ley lines and nodes in his Mysterious World spoiler a long time ago.
Has he ever discussed the actual mechanical benefits or disadvantages of these phenomena?
How would you implement a Bloodline that was unintentionally created by one of the Unchained?
>>46292376
I'm not sure if that would be possible, at all
Considering the Unchained literally cannot become Vampires, all they can do is mimic disciplines they've seen before.
>>46292376
Attempted Cover / Patch job gone wrong?
Glitches / stigmatic shit as the bloodline weakness.
>>46292504
These plus a unique Discipline that grants abilities similar to some Embeds?
>>46286190
Based off Giants in the Earth? Yes, keep writing. That was actually really good. Your fiction is not great, but not bad; probably just needs practice.
>>46292376
The only way I can see a Bloodline forming from the unchained is a Bloodline that spawns from demon blooded children. Such as they may have a clan blessing to keep or gain an embed ability.
While its class bane is that the God Machine is really interested in them.
>>46292717
I like this take on them. Was there any particular parent Clan you had in mind?
>>46292753
They could be like the Neglatu bloodline and can be from any clan. As long as the perspective member was once an demon spawn.
>>46286190
Im not going to lie, I liked everything you put out so far such Giant in the Earth. But the thing I enjoyed the most from you work is definitely your work in demon storytellers guide about Prometheans and the Principles.
Especially the question of "Can Qashmallim Fall?"
>>46289825
Chronicles of [spoilers]PEOPLE PLAYING IT WRONG[/spoilers]
>>46293171
...you fucked up anon.
>>46293257
I TOTALLY MEANT THAT ITS HOW YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO DO IT SHUT UP
>>46293171
Chronicles ofget over it fag
>>46292753
Maybe the clan could allow them to buy the Terrible Form Merit. Giving access to demonic form abilities, maybe have the cost to activate it be 1 willpower + (1 vitae for every form activated).
>>46289220
Chronicles of Fagness
There, I did it.
>>46293276
Chronicle ofGod Machine
>>46293532
I approve
>>46293275
How can you be here for so long and not know that you never plural "spoiler"
>>46293712
Because shut up you fag chronicle
>>46293532
Chronicles ofKomodo Dragons
>>46294136
I approve.
>>46293532The StrixChronicles
ITT: Quality.
Could a mage make an God Machine Angel into a familiar? Would it even be worth it?
I understand that mages can't make angels go counter to the God Machine's plans, but what if giving the angel the familiar manifestation help the Angels in following the God Machine's plan.
>>46294253
>Could a mage make an God Machine Angel into a familiar?
Probably falls under the "nope, you need Archmastery to fuck with Angels"-clause.
>>46294253
>>46294292
Mages can do anything an everything. Dave has willed it.
>>46294308
>Mages can do anything an everything. Dave has willed it.
Just would you please shut the fuck up.
>>46294338
Admit you only like Mage because you can't cope playing anything but an out-of-place power fantasy splat and I will
Acknowledge that everything you like is terrible and cancer to the gameline as a whole and you only like it because you can't bare to make mechanically in-opportune choices and I will let your addiction pass
>>46294384
And what if I admit that I'm a Werewolf fan, who is sick of your shitposting?
>>46294443
Then surely you support me in my crusade against Mage supemacy
>>46294308
>>46294471
No. Because I don't see any Mage supremacy.
>>46294520
>I don't see any Mage supremacy
Mages gonna Mage
>>46294559
Fine. Explain what Mage supremacy is, then.
>>46294384
What splat would you prefer take Mage's place in the CofD/WoD canon? As in, if you could swap any monster that hasn't been made into a White Wolf game yet with Mage, what would it be?
Waiting for that supernal Sunday post, need that magical investigation....
>>46294617
Don't hold your breath. Dave said it probably wouldn't be weekly, and today is a holiday.
>>46294585
Nothing should take their place because nothing should be the objectively "right choice"
>>46294657
If it's a holiday, we should get *two* spoilers in celebration!
>>46294292
Well in the stop gap for mage, they could effect Angels up to until it interferes with the angels mission.
So if becoming a familiar for some reason does not go counter to the Angels mission. Can it be done.
>>46294707
>Nothing should take their place because nothing should be the objectively "right choice"
So, why is Mage "the objectively "right choice""?
>>46294707
I don't know why you assumed that whatever would get swapped in would be the "right choice" splat. I just wanted to know what kind of monster you'd think would fit in the CofD setting as a splat better. This can include stuff that's a fansplat, if that makes things easier.
All right. I'm serious here. What does people mean with Mage Supremacy?
>>46295048
The supernal underpins every world, so Mages have the advantage in every reality
Mage's power are cheaper, easier, and more all-encompassing than any other splat, so short of ST Fiat they are the best at everything and anything
Why do I have to care about Mage when I'm not playing or running Mage? I don't have to have Mage or its cosmology exist when I'm running anything else, except Beast I guess.
>>46295137
nWoD / CofD is designed to run on a single supernatural universe, and Mages ae better in every way
>>46295048
http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/main-category/main-forum/the-new-world-of-darkness/mage-the-awakening/839568-convince-me-mage-supremacy-isn-t-what-i-should-be-seeing
>>46295048
It's part trolling, but some of the Magehate is legit. Thing is, it's misdirected.
oWoD Mage was pretty guilty of the stuff that CoD Mage is getting flak for, like an Antideluvian getting killed by Mages instead of remaining a solely Vampire thing.
>>46295048
Mages are the best at everything, no other splat can do what they can do, but everything other splats can do is trivial compared to what a mage can do with a fraction of the effort.
>>46295093
>The supernal underpins every world, so Mages have the advantage in every reality
Every splats powers work everywhere. no place where Mages have an advantage going by that.
In fact, Mages are the ones with the disadvantage, because they are the only splats whose powers' working are dependant on a specific otherdimension being accesible, no other splat has that drawback.
>>46295093
>Mage's power are cheaper, easier, and more all-encompassing than any other splat
They aren't.
They are more flexible, but they aren't any of the things you list there.
>>46295093
>short of ST Fiat they are the best at everything and anything
They aren't that either.
In fact, because of the way they build their spells they are often much worse than other splats. Spells are very clearly defined at what they can do, and you'll never get powers that do lots of stuff at once the way other splats do.
>>46295359
ALL ME
L
L
M
E
>>46295093
>The supernal underpins every world, so Mages have the advantage in every reality
What advantage?
>Mage's power are cheaper, easier, and more all-encompassing than any other splat, so short of ST Fiat they are the best at everything and anything
So? To compensate they have almost no inherent powers instead.
All vampires can do the following:
Remain standing at full Bashing.
Reduce incoming damage.
Heal swiftly.
Can go Frenzy for powerful bonuses.
Can use Physical Intensity for powerful bonuses.
Enslave practically anyone who drinks their blood.
Uplift mortals to a semi-vampiric state.
Eat the souls of fellow vampires to gain part of their power.
And it costs then nothing to learn.
Mages get Mage Sight.
>>46295344
>but everything other splats can do is trivial compared to what a mage can do with a fraction of the effort.
Never looked at other splats' powers, have you?
>>46295344
>>46295093
Mages also have the weakest powers. With a basic roll of Arcanum + Power Stat.
>>46295149
>nWoD / CofD is designed to run on a single supernatural universe
No. It's eleven, soon to be twelve, separate games with separate settings that share an engine and terminology to encourage potential crossover play, but one shouldn't assume that the magic users are the Awakened or that the werewolves are the Uratha. There is no default unified setting. You can choose to build a unified setting if you own all/some of the games, but each line only assumes one real truth: the cosmology of the splat it's about.
It seems like the problem is assuming that CofD is WoD. WoD is the one with the actual setting, CofD is the toolset.
>>46295402
>>46295408
I was pointing out what other people think make mage supremacy real.
I'm a firm believer that all splats are on par with each other.
>>46294308
Yes they can do anything. Will they? Probably.
Yes they can do everything. Will they? Probably not.
Hubris is the mages curse, it hits harder then silver, lasts longer then any day and is more persistent then any huntsman. When you can do anything you might end up doing the wrong thing. When you can do everything you might end up doing everything that doesn't matter.
Who was the author of the crossover section of the Demon Storyteller Guide? It was the best piece about crossover that i ever read in CofD, I hope they'll make something similar for the other gamelines
So, is anybody willing to run an online playtest of Changeling 2E?
>>46296632
It was multiple people. Amy did a lot for the Promethean section, for example.
>>46295344
I think one of the main reason for the mage supremacy mindset is that people didn't really fully understand first ed rules.
Once I ran into a couple of guys who literally thought you could build an intimate connection with someone by seeing their yearbook photo from high school. No not using space magic to strengthen the connection, just look at the photo, it might as well be a part of him, no penalty(for some reason they also thought knowing their true name gave a +2 success, not bonus dice, success.)
When you see a mans house you see the pattern of his house. You can cast spells on his whole house. When you look into the bedroom from your tree branch perch you can cast spells on that room and everyone in said room you can see. When you see the woman in the bed you can cast spells on her. When you fall from the tree branch and cast again, now unable to see her, you have to use sympathetic connection(encountered -8 dice, requires space 2) when casting on the woman if you know her true name, If you don't then your connection is now two steps lower on the chart, Unknown, you can't cast on her at all.
>>46289310
Making it is Craft.
Selling it is Expression or Subterfuge.
>>46296912
I'd say Expression, capped by Crafts.
Selling it is Persuasion.
>>46296950
Expression is more like theater or poetry.
If you're producing physical goods, it's probably straight up Craft. Or Craft (spec).
>>46296912
>tfw you'll never be betrothed to cute girl with four dots in Dexterity
>>46297154
Expression if you're trying to put some sort of message or meaning into it, otherwise Crafts.
Expression is literally about, well, expressing yourself/a message, through art.
>>46289849
A), kidnapped infants very, very rarely manage to become changelings because they lack the connections to the human world that drives teen/adult prisoners of the fae to escape but i don't think playing the exception is always bad on purpose, particularly if this character's rescuers were other changelings.
B). That aside it's pretty good desu if leaning a little too hard into fairy tale cliches.
All that said I've always wanted to play a changeling whose reason for escaping was witnessing his/her Keeper bring a baby into Arcadia and deciding to save the baby & themselves.
>>46297154
Why even live?
>>46297293
>Leaning too hard into fairy tale cliches
>Changeling
Unpossible.
>>46295402
>with a fraction of the effort.
This part, at least, is flatly untrue. Mages can replicate a lot of powers other splats have, but it's almost never simpler and easier.
Shapeshifting into a wolf, for example, requires you to be an Adept of Life and succeed on a Gnosis+Life roll, and spend Reach if you want to stay a wolf for more than 4 turns. Starting werewolves can do that for free, with no roll required, and stay in that form for as long as they want.
Starting vampires, for example, can turn people into blood-slaves with no roll required. Replicating that level of devotion with Mind requires overcoming the subject's Resolve with Potency, spending Reach, and then eating a like -10 dice penalty to make it permanent (and then it's eating up one of your Spell Control slots forever, unless you feel like blowing a Willpower dot you'll have to spend XP to get back).
>>46296773
>(for some reason they also thought knowing their true name gave a +2 success, not bonus dice, success.)
It doesn't even give you bonus dice! What it does is let you use the actual sympathy table text, instead of automatically getting bumped down two steps. That Known connection you have with your Mage ally in another cabal? Without his real name, it's actually an Encountered connection. Good luck eating -8 dice any time you want to cast sympathetically on him.
If you've got an Encountered connection or worse, you can't cast on someone sympathetically AT ALL without their real name, as it bumps all the way down to Unknown!
>>46298120
>unless you feel like blowing a Willpower dot
I seem to remember someone stating that you could spend a point of Willpower instead, but that left the spell just as easy to dispel or subject to dissonance as any other one.Even if it isn't, I'm going to run it that way anyway.
>>46298212
In 2e, if you spend that point of Willpower instead of a dot, eventually the spell effect is going to drift away from the intended effect. Like, say, instead of slavish devotion they're magically driven to possessive obsession and they start trying to kill your friends.
>>46298212
That's how it worked in 1e, yeah.
How it works in 2e is described accurately in >>46298245.
>>46298045
it's LITERALLY rapunzel. way too derivative for my tastes.
>>46298245
Sweet, still going to do that constantly.
Well, not on people, more on Portals.
>>46298194
>When you see the woman in the bed you can cast spells on her. When you fall from the tree branch and cast again, now unable to see her, you have to use sympathetic connection(encountered -8 dice, requires space 2) when casting on the woman if you know her true name, If you don't then your connection is now two steps lower on the chart, Unknown, you can't cast on her at all.
Just wanted to make sure you know I knew that.
>>46299076
Fair enough then.
The dangers of sympathetic casting are in general vastly overstated in these threads.
>>46294584
From what I remember, Mage had the archmages, who were gameplay-wise so overpowered (they were only limited to how the universe "saw" their reality-warping nonsense) that any setting with them alongside other creatures was just laughable. Think a vampire could compare to someone who can make you spontaneously combust with a though?
>>46299432
Considering Archmages are all at least Gnosis 6, and afaik there aren't any rules for BP6+ Vampires yet, we just don't know
ATYON needs to hurry up
>>46294584
Mage supermacy started out with 1e core's bungled explanation of the relationship between the Supernal and the Fallen. A lot of people inferred that the book was stating that the entire Fallen World was a Lie/fake/not real, an d therefore everything that wasn't Supernal (i.e. every splat that isn't Mages) fundamentally doesn't matter. That is, Mage's metaphysics literally invalidates every other splat by declaring them all fake/lies.
This was moved away from over the course of the line, with the Mysterium book first confirming that it was almost definitely false, and was finally put to bed in (ironically enough) the book about Archmasters, to the point where Archmasters themselves don't use the term "Fallen World" at all, because they feel it's fundamentally inaccurate.
A lot of the whining, like the stuff a thread or two ago about how Luna somehow doesn't matter/doesn't count because she's not in and can't access the Supernal, is due to that original misconception.
>>46299633
>This was moved away from over the course of the line, with the Mysterium book first confirming that it was almost definitely false, and was finally put to bed in (ironically enough) the book about Archmasters, to the point where Archmasters themselves don't use the term "Fallen World" at all, because they feel it's fundamentally inaccurate.
For reference, a simplified explanation for how Imperial Mysteries describes the relationship between the Supernal and the "Fallen" (what they call the Phenomenal, as in, the one that has actual things, i.e. phenomena, in it).
"The Supernal isn't 'the Real World'. The Supernal is the Source Code FOR the Real World. You're living in the Real World right now."
>>46299720
Likewise, Archmasters alter reality via the Supernal by walking up there in person and rewriting parts of said source code. Reality does a check, notices it's not lining up with the source code, and changes to fit.
>tfw Mummy
How would you stat Frisk from Undertale in 2e?
>>46300467
Wait for a second edition of Innocents or a 2e Blue Book that ends up covering kids.
>>46300467
A Horror Of Determination.
>>46300467
In another system
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c5mFAc1OTVM
Mastigos Awakening/Mystery Play, y/n?
>>46301611
Looks like the prelude to Awakened to me.
The actual trial comes when he's thrown into Pandemonium, surrounded by demons.
>>46301611
I don't understated what constitutes a roll for lower humanity characters
>>46301611
i was thinking he was in the sims
>>46301696
Movie plot spoiler:The movie actually ends with him more or less Awakening; he realizes him and Melissa McCarthy's character(s) are both on a higher level of universal awareness than the majority of the population, and are more or less gods. The big reveal being that the 3 scenarios he goes through in the movie were all his personal magical attempt to prevent himself from coming to this realization.It's pretty decent, and it's on Netflix. I'd recommend it, if only for the Mage inspiration
>>46302041
What?
>>46302589
Yeah, that's fair; I can't remember if that shot was actually in the movie, or not, but I do remember the CGI was certainly one of the low points of it.
>>46303111
what was his reason for not wanting to know any of that
>>46303171
I dunno, why would a nascent god-like being possibly want to keep themselves from knowing that they could literally destroy the world with a thought.I can't remember for sure, but I think it was said that he was doing it all unintentionally, and the finale of the movie is the moment he stops trying to hide the truth from himself, or something like that. Basically, the entire thing is a Mastigos(obligatory because he almost-entirely forgets everything from his previous life at the start of the new one, and they're all in different locations) casting out the shard of the Abyss in his soul that prevents him from actually being a Mage.
TL;DR "why does the Lie exist?"Because humanity isn't ready for the Truth, yet
>>46286190
Why would you ask here and not the Shadowrun threads? I mean, I'm actually surprised you got kind and level replies.
>>46299633
>>46299432
Let's flip the script here.
Mages are supreme.
So?
The most popular urban fantasy novel series at the moment is about an incredibly powerful wizard. That's what people think of when they hear the term "urban fantasy" (aside from the much more common vampires). Why do you feel mages, supreme or not, don't fit in the World of Darkness, when they still experience horror? Often even horror on a grander scale.
I'm curious, what would happen if one of the Awakened, a Free Council, for example, recorded a video of themselves using Supernal magic, and then put it on the internet?
Would The Lie take effect, and make anybody who watched it forget it/rationalize it away? Would the Mage be affected at all, barring probably GotV coming to kick their door in and tell them to stop their shit?
>>46304039
What novel is that?
>>46304096
I think he's just up his own ass about Dresden Files being extremely popular, despite the fact that most people outside of /tg/ have probably never heard of it, let alone read it
>>46304087
The Lie takes hold. Mortals in CofD tend to overwhelmingly rationalize away or outright reject any evidence of the supernatural, even very good evidence. Anything else & they turn into hunters which always ends in tears.
>>46304087
Right now we don't know what kind of evidence is required to cause Dissonance. It's one of the key things I'm looking forward to reading first in 2e.
e.g.
Is a live video feed witnessed by sleepers enough?
If so, what about if that feed has a delay?
Is a picture of someone casting Magic enough?
What about a painting?
What about the other senses?
What about hearing a mystic chant?
Or smelling the sulphur of a Mage's vulgar aura.
What if they bump into an invisible Mage?
Or walk into one who's using a SEP field?
So many questions.
>>46304096
>>46304157
>most people outside of /tg/ have probably never heard of it, let alone read it
http://www.penguin.com/newsroom/7-titles-jim-butchers-dresden-files-series-hit-new-york-times-ebook-fiction-bestseller-list-week/
>>46304157
>>46304196
Looks like you where right, Anon.
Oh shit, newyorks best sellers list? That thing that's on fucking every god damn book it seems? What a prestigous award!
Niggah I love Dresden but I fucking doubt its "The most popular Urban Fantasy" at the momment.
I'm trying to run a demon game. Players are all Nephilim in present-day CofD and trying to deal with the God-Machine being a shit. One player is throwing a hissy fit and insisting I let her play a Demon. This is my first time running a game, the players are all my friends, I'm no good at saying no, and a bunch of other stupid excuses.
What do I do?
>>46304966
>this is my first time running a game
>I'm no good at saying no
Then now's when you learn. Saying no is one of the most important parts of being a GM.
>>46304966
>I'm trying to run a demon game
>One players is throwing a hissy fit and insisting I let her play a Demon
I...
Did you make a typo or something?
>>46305063
All-Nphilim game.
>>46305092
That seems unwise
>>46305417
Not that guy, but why?
How do you guys handle a player that just wants to see the world burn?
You know, the guy who wants use violence when intrigue would do, the guy who is content to blow shit up as a first option and completely avoid being subtle about anything.
Just let them run amuck and try to clean up after them , hoping thier character dies in the process ?
Should I constantly babysit / police them and tell them that punching that guy is a stupid plan?
How do you handle these kinds of players....
>>46305727
Let their actions have consequences, and those consequences fuck him over. Or just tell him to shape up or ship out.
>>46305727
Consequences
You beat up crime boss, they're going to send goons, you blow up a building and everyone from the FBI to Task Force: Valkerie is going to be on your as
>>46305727
a). take them aside and tell them that the kind of game you & the rest of the table is not the one that player wants to and see if you can come to an understanding.
b). let him get his character killed as he seems to desperately want to do.
c). let the pressure & consequences of all the stupid shit he's doing fall directly onto the group's head & watch the fireworks go up. SWAT teams, frozen bank account assets, armed thugs in their homes, mysterious housefires, vengeful widows & sons, that sort of thing.
>>46305772
>You beat up crime boss, they're going to send goons, you blow up a building and everyone from the FBI to Task Force: Valkerie is going to be on your as
Not that anon, but in my experience...
Player: "Fuck yes, more enemies to beat up! And if I die, I'll just make a new character."
Talk to him ooc, the only ones negatively affected by ingame consequences to his actions are the other PCs caught in the ensuing crossfire.
Man the Star Trek Voyager episode "Memorial" can be a plot of a mage game. A memorial makes people relive a massacre of a village.
What are the rules for legacy creation?
>>46306389
For 2e? We have no idea.
For 1e? They're in the book.
>>46305764
>>46305772
>>46305784
>>46306139
Yeah.. i'm one of the other players and its not my place to tell the GM what to do. I don't want to constantly tell the player to stop being an idiot, but if I don't then I'm going to have to clean up after his mistakes.
How do I Dio Brando in CofD?
>>46304313
>Niggah I love Dresden but I fucking doubt its "The most popular Urban Fantasy" at the momment.
No, I think that's the Shadowhunters shit.
>>46306415
>For 2e? We have no idea.
>For 1e? No one has any idea.
Fixed.
>>46306468
Doesn't work. WoD has it easier, with True Brujah.
>>46306491
Really? Huh.
>>46306468
Well I know you could make Stroheim as an Ivory Claw, not sure what their standpoint of cybernetics is though
>>46306534
What I meant was, everyone, authors included, shit on everything apart from the most basic of rules.
>>46305552
If it's your first time, the stranger you do things the worse it is for you.
>>46305092
>>46304966
Nephilim? You mean Demonblooded?
>>46306548
Well yeah, 1e was extremely haphazard in its quality.Fucking Celestial Masters.
>>46306554
I think they're talking about the Nephilim from the Giants on the Earth setting alt-setting.
>>46306783
What are they?
>>46307420
Short answer? Half-demons.
>>46290145
>>46289220
So I have this girl in my group who wants to play a Salubri.
Here's my problem:
1, I'm not sure that Salubri are even canon in current VtM.
They are extinct... right?
2, I don't know how to roleplay a Salubri.
While I'm the GM, this still bothers me.
I don't know the Disciplines, the background, etc
Yes, I read about it, but never cared about this Clan and having a Salubri in our current game would be very uncomfortable for me.
So should I allow her to play one?
While I could learn everything about this Clan (I still have a few days till the game), I have no experiences with them, and this feels... weird.
What do you think?
>>46309185
They're not extinct, but they're in very small numbers and the Tremere will want to kill any they learn about. So, if that would cause major problems in your setting, sure, disallow it. But if not, I'd recommend that you give it a shot; trying to channel players to fit your own desires instead of their own usually doesn't work very well.
And if you have a few days, that should be enough time to bone up on the topic. It's not like there'll be a lot of Salubri around you'll have to roleplay; the odds are extremely low that any Salubri besides her sire would even exist in the city.
TFW it's the last week in March and Dark Eras hasn't been released, no less Mage 2e.
>>46309233
Thanks for the info, Anon!
I still have a few question, if you don't mind:
I heard the Salubri special Discipline is flawed, or at least "weird" compared to the others - is this true?
I don't want a flawed character in my game (powergaming, special snowflake syndrome or something like that).
I fear that this girl wants to build some edgy / Mary Sue character; the fact that she chose this (almost) extinct Clan shows this, too.
I hope letting her play a Salubri won't help her ruin our game...
>>46309339
I'm not very good with mechanics, so I'm not actually sure if Obeah is inherently overpowered or not, but I don't believe so. It's somewhat weird, as it's a healing Discipline, but I don't think that it's actually overpowered. She won't be a special snowflake because of this clan unless the rest of the group doesn't care about maintaining their Humanity.
>>46309339
Just let her play it, they're in the book for a reason: They exist, and they might be interesting to have in your game.
Assuming you're not playing a Sabbat game, the clan isn't inherently going to be any sort of special snowflake.
>>46309378
I see.
Although let me say a few things about this gal:
>played a trans Tzimisce in our last game
>loves to create fucked up characters with unique, yet unbelievably unplayable Disciplines (I mean normal powers but she always wants to use them in an odd way)
>last time's Tzimisce was a Jared Leto Joker; not literally, but (s)he was... well... "damaged"
>another player is her ex and they're still mad at each other
>one time her character died (constantly made stupid decisions, it was inevitable) and she got totally mad (even went home)
I really want to be kind to her, because we're childhood friends, but when she decided this Salubri thing, I started to worry (again)...
>>46309538
>Assuming you're not playing a Sabbat game
Some players are Sabbat...
>>46306544
Give Stroheim a machine spirit totem and have the cybernetics be the totem gift.
>>46306468
Daeva
Majesty ●●●●●●●●●●
Celerity ●●●●●
Vigor ●●●
Animalism ●●But he uses the Celerity rules from VtM instead of VtR
>>46309616
>another player is her ex and they're still mad at each other
ABORT
ABORT
ABORT
ABORT
ABORT
>>46309900
Tell me about it.
>she: Hey Anon, can I borrow your WtA core book?
>me: Sure.
>[a few days later]
>she: Ok, let's play WtA. You were right, it's cool.
>me: What is your favourite Tribe?
...
...
...
>she: BLACK FURIES
Yepp, she's definitely "That Girl".
Now you see why I'm so afraid.
>>46309997
As someone who got into Werewolf with Forsaken, what's wrong with this?
>>46309997
At least it's notRed Talons
>>46309616
If the Tzimisce's trans, she's just she, no need to worry.
I do, however, strongly recommend making a firm rule about players not fucking each other over at the beginning of the game, so you have a precedent to strike down anything that bubbles up between exes.
>>46309997
>>46310028
Nothing whatsoever is wrong with the Black Furies, at least in a way that makes them inherently poisonous. Yes, they're an all-female tribe and it matters to them, but you can easily be a That Person with any tribe.
Is Glass Walkers really selling other tribes/feras to Technocracy these days?
So can anyone tell me the difference between verges, shadow, twilight, gauntlet, hisil? So many terms related to spirit worlds
>>46309185
Special snowflake clan, might as well have a tzmisce antitribu and a kiaysd too
>>46310414
Verges has nothing to do with the Shadow any more. It's a Mage term now, and describes something different.
Shadow is the alternate reality, where spirits live.
Twilight is a non-material state of being in this world.
Gauntlet is the barrier keeping the Material world and the Shadow world apart.
Hisil is the First tongue term for the Shadow.
>>46310414
>shadow
Spirit world. Animistic reflection of the material world.
>hisil
Name for the Shadow in spirit language
>gauntlet
The curtain between the material and spirit worlds
>verges
A locus is a section of the gauntlet that has gotten threadbare and stuff can pass through with effort and magic. Verges are tears in the curtain where anything can pass through.
>twilight
Things in Twilight are in the material world but are out of phase with it, so are intangible and invisible except with magic. Every type of being able to enter it (spirits, ghosts, sorcerers, etc) has their own flavour of Twilight and can only interact with other things using their flavour too
>>46310438
I'm playing a Tzimisce Antitribu in a weekly gameand things are going fine.
>>46310414
>Verge
A place where the Gauntlet doesn't exist and the spirit world and the material world are in direct contact
>Shadow
The name for the spirit world
>Twilight
A "state of reality" where the ephemeral beings (ghosts, spirits in the material world, angels) usually exists. Think how ghosts are untouchable and can cross solid matter, when something is in that state it means it is in Twilight
>Gauntlet
The membrane, the barrier which divides the spirit world and the material world. It's width is influenced by human activity or other supernatural events (hosts for example)
>Hisil
The name in First Tongue (the language of spirits and werewolves) of the Shados i.e the spirit world
>>46310449
Actually Verge is still considered in this graph, but it's the only reference
>>46310491
How are you playing them?
>>46290978
Lucifuge can get demon familiars can't they?
>>46310790
Yes, both material and in Twilight
Moros with cute ghost girl familiar
>>46309616
>>46309997
Holy shit reminds me why I stopped GMing for a VtR game in Seattle. Shit-show storytime ahoy!
>Card shop was a hole in the wall, nothing special.
>Did Shadowrun, Mutants, WoD&nWoD on weekends.
>GM a game because I like storytelling and know a few of the players.
>Then "She" arrives.
>Doesn't look SJW or off at first, just frumpy black sweatpants/jacket with a nose and lip piercing.
>She joins the the game and I look at her sheet.
>See that she's playing a Bruja based off Damsel from VTM:Bloodlines but somethings off.
>She's Circle of the Crone and has a note that she uses her menstrual blood for her Cruac.
>WTF Flags go off in my head as it states she can use Undead Menses merit to give +1 to Cruac because she menstruates.
>At first I thought that this was homebrew and not even real.
>Look it up. It's actually in the Gangrel book clear as day.
>mfw
I let her play one game just to see what she'd pull. She'd carry vials she'd just pop into her cooch and menstruate in while enchanting the Cruac. She'd either throw them at people, slip them into their drinks, or smear it on the walls when she wanted to be artsy rebel. She made almost everyone but the psuedo-fishmalk player uneasy. She started bringing her friends who had similar characters and the original players just left and never came back. As soon as my table was full of "her types (she even converted the fishmalk)" I just packed up and went home.
>>46311122
Typical Circle shit.
Only Lancea et Sanctum can save us from this
>>46311122
VtR is designed to be magical realm
>>46311122
>I let her play one game just to see what she'd pull.
That was a stupid thing for you to do. What the fuck did you expect to happen?
I just don't get this kind of thinkng. "Well, I'm clearly uncomfortable/unsure with what this player is doing. Better just roll with it instead of setting boundaries like a normal ST would do!"
>>46309616
>another player is her ex and they're still mad at each other
Wait, are you still keeping them at the table together? And you're worried about her playing a Salubri and that her favorite tribe is Black Furies? Not the unresolved drama at your table?
Good lord, I need a drink.
>>46306479
Wow, I just looked up what that was and god damn does it look like some gay ass shit. Books and their covers an all that, but christ...
>>46310776
Remember several months or so back where a bunch of people had roughly the same idea for high-Humanity Tzimisce who use Vicissitude for trauma surgery, cosmetic surgery, stuff like that?
I'm finally getting to use that idea.His sire is so very disappointed in him.
A friend played a trans and bi Kabuki performer who is an underground arms dealer. Vampire is that sort of game.
>>46311122
>>WTF Flags go off in my head as it states she can use Undead Menses merit to give +1 to Cruac because she menstruates.
>>At first I thought that this was homebrew and not even real.
>>Look it up. It's actually in the Gangrel book clear as day.
Oh don't worry friend, they put that shit in the COREBOOK for 2e.
Because that's definitely something you want people first discovering the game to see front-and-center in the character creation section.
>>46311330
The Shadowhunter books are more "young adult" urban fantasy than Dresden Files. The young adult fantasy genre tends to generally be more SJW than books and series with a much wider targeted audience.
>>46311373
>"'Son', we need to talk about this phase your going through."
>"It's not a phase 'dad', it's who I am."
Because when you can melt several people into a hulking warblob, being a cosmetic surgeon is the 'edgy-teenage-phase'.
>>46306479
>>46311330
Isn't that the series of books written by a known plagarizer, who is currently being sued for plagiarizing the very concept of the Shadowhunters series?
>>46311539
It's like Family Ties, except instead of a conservative teen rebelling against his hippie family, it's just a Kindred who wants to be a vampire doctor like the cool TV people.
>>46311539
That's pretty much exactly how his sire sees it. He's got eternity to come around, so he doesn't want to ruin his relationship with his childe over what he sees as a phase.
Considering the Humanity ratings of most of the rest of the coterie he's probably right, too.
>>46311122
>nerd_btfo.txt
>>46311544
Yep. If you didn't know better, you would think the books were the rambling fan fiction of a very fat thirteen year old girl confused about her sexual identity (or typical YA urban fantasy).
>>46311669
Urban Fantasy seems to come in two flavors: wild world changing power fantasy or dimestore mystery novel except there's an elf or a wizard or an elf wizard. No matter the age range or intended gender of the audience, that seems to be about the jist of it. Maybe Dracula had a point in that whole interview thing.
>>46311122
She... didn't seem to actually do anything wrong, going by this summary. There's no indication she was deliberately making the other players uncomfortable.
>>46311903
True, but come on anon, most people are gonna be a lil disgusted by someone just throwing pussy blood around like it was confetti.
>>46311398
>implying that it's somehow inconsistent with the writing of the rest of the corebook
Vampire is a game for edgelords, fetishists, and people comfortable with both.
>>46311903
Being completely unable to recognize that your vaginal discharge antics are making other players uncomfortable is also bad, anon.
>>46311856
I don't entirely disagree, but regardless of genre, some authors are just far better and more creative writers than others. Whether a book is targeted to young adults vs. wider or more mature audiences also certainly changes the tone and complexity of the writing and the issues explored in the plot and setting.
>>46311946
Why were they uncomfortable about menstruation, half the planet does it for a significant portion of their lives
>>46311932
It's not like Cruac is a particularly clean Discipline. Blood gets slung around quite a bit with it.
>>46311932
>>46311946
>disgusted by someone just throwing pussy blood around like it was confetti.
I just remembered how much I DON'T miss the 1990's and the Verbenna form Mage: The Ascension.
>>46312033
It's less the menstruation, more the throwing it around in everybody's face as a weapon
>>46312112
You're playing Vampire. Blood happens
>>46312056
Yeah but Anon, most people are probably fine with a bunch of blood an murder, people start to get antsy when it comes to BLOOD FROM THE PUSS and probably animals since it seems like most people would rather kill a person than hurt a animal. And yea, like
>>46312112
said, throwing puss blood in someones face? Come on.
>>46312033
It's possible to be indifferent to menstruation generally, yet regardless of whether your a man or woman, still not enjoy role-playing with people who like characters whose main shtick is saving menstrual blood in containers and throwing it a people.
I like and respect women. I don't enjoy role-playing with edgelords.
>>46312033
>The fact that people menstruate at all is exactly the same thing as smearing your bodily fluids all over the walls, throwing it at people, and putting it in people's drinks
Everybody shits too, anon, but that doesn't make it acceptable to smear all over the walls.
Everybody pees, but you don't piss in someone's drink.
You also don't throw human feces at people, or spit in their faces.
>>46311903
Sometimes players, while not intending to make people uncomfortable, make decisions and choices that make others uncomfortable. This is why it's important to hash things like tone and setting content out during character creation and establish a good understanding between player, ST, and the group as a whole. This is also why it's important not to let things slide based on "I wonder what kind of shit this person'll pull with this", because the answer is always, always "as far as humanly possible". And at least one person will not be happy.
>>46312143
Blood happens, but you have to make a specific choice to use blood from your character's vagina, and then save that blood in vials which you then throw at people
It's like >>46312166 said; sure, people piss and shit, but you generally don't throw that at other people as a projectile.
Even if a transgirl character took that and justified it by saying that she bleeds out of her dick, it's still fucking gross to throw genital fluids and bodily waste at people
I'm all for feminism, but it stops being okay when you literally start menstruating on people against their will
>>46312316
Blood is blood, why does the source bother you so much?
>>46309339
>>46309185
>>46309616
>>46309997
>Help, my player likes aspects of the setting I don't.
This is coming from me, but come the fuck on. "She played a transgender tzimisce and she likes Black Furies, that means she's a total That Girl!"
No, we don't really see why you're so afraid. It's fine. I too struggle with players who want to be members of groups I find stupid or boring. I once ran a one on one game for someone who played a Thearch. Talk about terrible. It was even a big thing that the city had a different interpretation of doctrine.
Also, as >>46310049 points out, calling a transperson, fictional or not, "(s)he" is really offensive.
>>46311122
I honestly just don't believe you. For one, that's not even how Undead Menses works. Why do you put "she" in scare quotes? How are you able to ST a game but not communicate with your players? What kind of shop would actually run random pick up games? Do those really even exist, outside of Shadowrun Missions, Pathfinder Society, and D&D Encounters?
>>46310049
Really, Children of Gaia are more "That Guy", and that's because their book is an insufferable diatribe about how WoD is holier than thou.
>>46310449
>>46310585
A Verge is any place where one realm overlaps with another. An Avernian Gateway is a Verge to the Underworld, there are Supernal Verges, and I believe David has mentioned Hedge Verges. Anything else is covered by >>46310475 or >>46310522
>>46311398
>>46311934
Vampire is a game about consuming bodily fluid and often smearing it on things. The fact that the pagan group gets bonuses from period blood should not surprise anyone.
>>46311903
OP is probably lying, but it's debatable that she didn't do anything wrong if the story is true. Undead Menses doesn't mechanically function in a way that would allow what was described.
>>46312316
Uh, no one was menstruating on anyone against their will IRL, it's a gorram vampire. It's not even real menstrual blood, since vampires can't actually generate the necessary ova or uterine lining; it's just imitation menstrual blood with magical significance. It's an extension of the vampiric imitation of humanity to use the imitation of a human substance with strong precedence for being used in magic.
>>46312363
>A Verge is any place where one realm overlaps with another. An Avernian Gateway is a Verge to the Underworld, there are Supernal Verges, and I believe David has mentioned Hedge Verges.
Could you overlap Verges to every other realm?
>>46312341
Menstrual blood is not the same stuff that comes out of your veins, anon.
>>46312363
>it's debatable that she didn't do anything wrong if the story is true. Undead Menses doesn't mechanically function in a way that would allow what was described.
>It would be wrong because it's not following the mechanics, not because it's smearing bodily waste everywhere
Oh Aspel.
>>46312363
>Vampire is a game about consuming bodily fluid and often smearing it on things. The fact that the pagan group gets bonuses from period blood should not surprise anyone.
Of course not, but it touches on body horror themes that may not be appropriate for that particular group. While the merit is entirely appropriate for the game, it's not surprising that it might be "too far" for some players. This does not in anyways make the original poster not a moron for letting someone walk all over their game, however. The person playing the character also, like you said, doesn't seem to know how the Merit actually works and was just trying to power game their Cruac in the silliest way possible.
Also, yeah, many stores have open tables for pickup games. I don't think the original poster is lying. They're an idiot that let a That Player ruin their game, but probably not a liar.
>>46312394
>Could you overlap Verges to every other realm?
Theoretically, yes. But verges are not like train stations or generic crossroads. They are also extremely rare, each one unique, and potentially quite dangerous.
Don't be That Guy.
>>46312594
>body horror themes
You misspelled "magical realm," anon.Also, a Kindred feeding her female ghoul out of her vagina is one of my fetishes.
