"Welcome to Tumbler!" Edition
Website:
www.degenesis.com
Trailers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WTCARC91yyw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Tw3KaMr8wk
Simple Setting Breakdown:
https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Degenesis
Chargen:
http://www.degenesis.com/character-en/
Books:https://mega.nz/#F!4llFxaSJ!-s8AP4HjornW2PDjuMfl1w
Errata:
http://paste2.org/fV8Amp2Y
North America Setting Homebrew:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1uyxJrsz9Wv6u0BIfRHkQyKzxcycmy4LosUJA3TXiaFo/edit#
Discussion of the day:
Spitalian Quest! >>44392417
Or if you prefer:
I'm actually getting ready to run the adventure in the back of the book to introduce this to some friends. Anyone have any advice, tips, or clarifications you picked up when you ran it? Any of the same from running anything else?
As always, rules questions, setting questions, and character ideas are all welcome!Kindly keep the Polandballing to a minimum.
Ditto for the waifushit.
You know who you are.
Fuck off, Swiss strong.
second for militant MSF being cooler than militant Red Cross
Also anyone know any good sort of ambient music that fits Degenisis?
>I'm actually getting ready to run the adventure in the back of the book to introduce this to some friends. Anyone have any advice, tips, or clarifications you picked up when you ran it? Any of the same from running anything else?
One of the friends here.
I have like an hour to make a character, oh God I have no idea what anything is in this setting, help me.
Also I need art for a Judge lady. Otherwise I might have to play a Clanner or, worse, not use art.
>>44396117
>not use art
Truly a fate worse than death.
>>44395944
yo what's that thing in the tube on the staff in your second trailer?
>>44396133
I was going to use Lara Croft art, but apparently you can't be a lone badass, you need to be part of some bigger group. I guess I might be able to do a Scrapper or a Clanner from a more techy clan.
>>44396142
It's a piece of cow organ that thump-thumps when spooky monster shit is around.
>>44396142
That, my friend, is a bonafide chunk of mutant-flesh warped by nothing short of the very same psychic alien fungalform that devastated our planet and ushered in the end of days! Preserved properly and attuned to the proper frequencies, it can actually be used to the detect the presence of other Psychonauts and similar specimens of homo degenesis.
>>44396178
>apparently you can't be a lone badass, you need to be part of some bigger group
Well, it's doable but they tend to be the exception rather than the rule. Most of the time you're out there trying to further your Cult's interests.
>>44396194
>>44396178
Cheers lads, and what's all this about transgenic horses?
>>44396270
Fukken Povost Kranzler and his horse fetish. Dude loves equestrianism and horses and his stables produce some of the finest breeds of horses you'll ever see. He'll also ruin you if he hears you've mistreated your horse or any other, whether it's one of his Newcrests or not.
>>44396259
Yeah. I think my problem is wanting to go into it as a lone Mad Max/The Road/Fallout sort of character.
So far I'm leaning towards an Apocalyptic or a Judge. What really sells me on the judges is that sometimes instead of smashing people's heads in with a hammer, they'll dye people, so that their punishment isn't permanent. I like that. I'm not fond of the whole "murder the sinner" hardline bullshit. I wanna be a wasteland paladin.
Which is why I need art!
Oh, also, I fixed the map.
>>44396449
I mean, shit's crawling with red ants, but sure!You REALLY hated the red water, huh?
>>44396504
It confused the hell out of me.
>>44396429
This may work for you, friendo. Sure it's technically Warhammer Fantasy, and she's lacking the hammer, the scarf, and the glasses.
But she's got a blackpowder pistol and the hat, so it's probably close enough for government work.
>>44396617
That's almost exactly what I was looking for. Got any more?
>>44396449
My group joked that the sea was red....soooo.
All the water in the game is red.
>>44396312
>But...but Mr Kranzler Sir it was an aberrant horse.
*Death by limestone*
>>44396653
Less close than the first one, but she's got a hammer!
>>44396702
Eh, the art doesn't have the Judges all in hats.
I'd tried to find genderswapped Alucard art (from Hellsing) that I could just recolour, but that didn't work out. The one picture I could find had no hat and no glasses.
>>44396674
>My group joked that the sea was red....soooo.
I wouldn't be at all surprised if it was.
>>44396881
>>44396674
Well, worked for Rebuild of Evangelion
>>44396563
Me too. It just hurts to look at. It looks wrong. Thanks for the map.
I'm trying to make a notable Gendo hunter's weapon more interesting as notable loot for the group when they find it. As it stands, it's an over-under Shotgun with the Double Barrel trait and the Improved Sights mod.
I was thinking of maybe throwing in some pre-Eschaton caliber 12 shells with it - Tighter groupings and better quality shot (Actual pellets instead of the typical scrap waste) while they last.
>>44396105
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fp4rS0AF4Y
Bump with my sheet.
Borcan
The Protector
Judge
Not many Degenesis fans, I guess...
Would this thread stick around without me bumping it if people were arguing about America?
>>44400430
gimme a day or two to figure the system out and I can argue 'murrica and other shit with you guys
>>44400430
But anon...something something takes over game discussion
>>44400430
It could use the occasional bump, but if it flops, it flops.I should've posted it AFTER the game.
>>44401935
I wanted help before the game. If there'd been a thread, I might not have been so late with my character.
>>44397031
Pretty sure shot towers can make buckshot. Keeping a shotgun fed is actually one of the easier firearms to work with.
>>44402311
Indeed! 12 gauge slugs and buckshot are both Tech level III as opposed to the Tech level IV of most other firearms.
How would you rate the psychonauts from easiest to hardest to kill?
>>44400430
is the NA homebrew even still alive
>>44402311
in all fairness shot shells are some of the most basic of rounds when it comes to reloading.
>>44403310
If it's just about killing the psychonauts themselves I'd say that Pheromancers are the easyest because their armies are the only Protection you have.
The rest is difficult to rate. Most young ones go down with a well placed shot, while the older ones will fuck you up in ways you can't imagine.
>>44403310
They represent a really broad spectrum, yeah. Some of the old ones with really high phenomenon powers are unthinkably strong.
>>44402311
>>44402737
Yeah, I noticed that. I guess I'll think of something else.
>>44400430
Slow thread is fine compared to another NA discussion.
I just got the core and it's fantastic. However, I'm concerned about being able to keep all the rules in my mind. Is tg GM screen worth getting?
so last night was kind of fun--I intimidated two Shutters and the Spit almost chopped off a guy's arm--but now I have the chance to actually finish making my character.
Any good modifications for a Judgment Hammer? Anything good for 200CD? Does this sheet look legal (aside from our extra 5 skills)?
http://www.degenesis.com/character-en/index.html?id=ffdd1fff-c18e-4189-c48d-295cd769bda1
>>44395944
Anyone actually play this rather than just autoeroticism over the setting/ making characters?
>>44406045
For the hammer, you'll probably be picking between Whetting+Balancing and Smooth running (3T). It's really just if you'd rather have better base stats on it, or if instead you feel pretty confident in getting the triggers needed for Smooth running.
>>44406102
I was in half a one shot last night. Guy who made the thread was running it.
What is your favorite cult and why is it scrappers?
>>44406452
Because Scrappers are the everyman, they are the survivalist legend, they are the manufacturers of the future, and they are everything else in between. Their cult is one of potential and versatility, and I love it!
Son, from my understanding, Shutters aren't officially Chroniclers because of their use of lethal weapons. So when you create one, you have to craft a false identity to wear outside of the cult?
Or would you present yourself as an ex-Chronicler? The barcode tattoo would be a clear giveaway if you don't hide it.
>>44406572
Shutters are pretty much the black-ops of the Chroniclers, and pretty easy to fit into most campaigns, seeing as they don't have to look like traditional Chroniclers. I assume they have some way to hide the barcode, especially at upper levels.
They're only allowed to use 'sanctioned', ie lethal weapons, because they officially don't exist to anyone in the Cluster.
>>44406572
I think you present yourself as an ex-Chronicler, a Fuse, to everyone outside the Cult.
Not sure how other Chroniclers are meant to know you're actually still a member, unless you get your barcode scanned when you enter the Alcove
>>44406849
>>44406879
>>44406849
No. This is an art setting. So much better and full color please. 1e is coal, not pencil, and that, too, has to look more detailed and better proportioned, anatomically.
>>44407001
I like the second one, which is what I was trying to post.
Frankly I'm unsure of what's up with Degen's art. It varies from fairly generic wastelander, to grotesque mutant, to softcore porn in some places.
I mean I like it but let's not overhype the books. The art isn't anything extraordinarily special. Plus fetishization over anatomic realism is artistic cancer. It should look good not "real"
Besides I prefer it black and white with clean pencils. Coal is for pretentious art majors.
>>44405967
Soooo no one has it?
>>44396449
thank god. I don't know why the red waters fucked with me so hard but they did.
This makes way more sense.
>>44407099
Well, pretentious art majors work for Marvel Comics and design Degenesis. You on the other hand post 5 minute sketches on 4chan...
>>44407160
Those are art requests I got from a drawthread shmo.
If I wanted critique on my art I'd be on /ic/
And have you worked with coal?
I have, I hate the way it feels, sounds, and the filth it leaves behind. Don't speak of things you don't understand.
And pretty much all the art in american comic books (the big two anyway) is garbage. No don't try to defend it, it's what happens when you have to churn out dozens of pages every couple of weeks and you're lucky if the writer you've been paired with understands that comics are a visual medium get paired with bendis and you get to find a way to draw two people talking look interesting. (Protip, you can't)
Also what you just posted? Nicely crafted image but It's still just a guy wearing junk armor
>>44407267
Okay correction robot not junk armor.
This is what I get for using my phone.
Not really sold on the design though now I'm just being nitpicky.
I feel like the XP system is kinda shit in this game. Rewarding the player to do what the GM wants them to feels arbitrary.
I thought about awarding XP based on what cult the PC is part of and what the cult is about: e.g. every time a Judge enforces the law, he gains XP, or every time a Jehammedian brings honor his family/religion he gains XP.
Any other thoughts on the XP system?
>>44407160
What's all that junk on the left shoulder do? The hands look like 1:1 copies of human hands but the feet are digitigrade, and I kinda want a shot from the side of those leg joints, they look mishapen which is odd because the hands look very functional. Why are there so many piston like structures on the chest.
Overall a good throwaway design for a RPG book but not something I'd want to see over and over agaon, If only so some poor artist doesn't have torture himself trying to keep the design consistent. Assyemtry is a real bitch.
>>44406526
>Because Scrappers are the everyman
Clanners are the Everyman.
>>44406572
>>44406607
>>44406621
How it came up in the game last night was everyone else thought they were Clanners, but being a Judge I was familiar enough with Chroniclers to know about Shutters. After interrogating them and hearing the local Chronicler scrap dealer explain that he called them, everyone else sort of wised up.
As far as I can tell (I sort of rushed through learning the setting) they're still officially Chroniclers, they're just allowed to legbreak for the Cluster.
>>44407160
>>44407001
Dude, calm your fucking tits. "Your art isn't as good as the official game art" is just fucking asinine.
>>44407267
Okay you were better off when you were just posting your art.
Saying comic book art is garbage is dumb, especially when you follow that up by literally explaining the limitations of the medium in the next sentence.
>>44407366
>Rewarding the player to do what the GM wants them to feels arbitrary.
I've always been a fan of bribery based systems. nWoD/CofD does the same thing now (you get XP for playing into your status effect, choosing to make your failures critical, that kind of thing), but a lot of people dislike that as well.
Honestly, I haven't looked at Degenesis' XP yet (since this is supposed to be a one shot) but for CofD I'd go even further and have bribery points where the ST says "you'll get a Beat if you allow XYZ to happen".
Tying Aspects/Bennies/Hero Points/whatever to XP gain seems such a great idea to me. Because "Experience" should be given for experiencing things. Bribery shouldn't be the ONLY way that works, but having it as an option is great (although conversely I don't like personal XP and prefer a group share it)
>>44407412
That's not my art, those are draw requests.
Anyways if you wanted good comic art I'd suggest look for Europeon books for a more consistent run of "good" art. (Obviously tastes is gonna be big factor here asterix is not judge dredd)
The better pieces of american art are usually gonna be in annuals or stuff the big two are pushing hard. Miniseries are another good place for art, not to mention 3rd party books
>>44407456
Judge Dredd isn't all that great, and most European comics I've seen haven't been that good either (sidenote, man, Nikopol was a let down).
Also, I like comic book art. Not every art anything should be super gorgeous. That's kinda my point. Complaining that comic book art "looks like garbage" is like complaining that a tent doesn't have long term structural reliability.
>As far as I can tell (I sort of rushed through learning the setting) they're still officially Chroniclers, they're just allowed to legbreak for the Cluster.
Nope, first book page 160. I'm on my phone ATM, so I won't copypaste it, sorry.
Scrapper in the game from last night. Stealth is op, Shutters can't even handle it.
>>44406157
What's your emotional feeling from it? What's your mechanical feeling from it?
>>44407516
Shutters will murder you in your sleep. At least if they're build correctly.
>>44407493
You know posting Harper there just makes me think your tastes are wholly inconpatible with mine as she's literally a mary sue and yet another forgettable addition to the already bloated bat family.
World needs less bat books.
Pity Bat Wing was so forgettable, was Bat Wing the African Bat Man title?
Regardless, I'd like to see DC Catch up with Freedom Beast, that probably would've been a better investment of time than their Animal Man reboot.
>>44407514
>>44406621
>>44406607
>>44406572
In In Thy Blood there's a shutter who operates with a few false Identities. He burned his barcode away and only interacts with the cluster when he uses his codes to access databases and storages in the wilderness
Thinking of doing a short adventure soon for my regular group of three guys. The pitch is that lately the gendos around a settlements are acting way too smart for even an already cunning animal and have started setting ambushes and using rudimentary tactics on outlying farmsteads. The players have to figure out what the hell is going on with these dogs.
What they eventually find is an abberant(pheromancer or something) controlling them through its plague. the gendos themselves have become riddled with insects and sepsis and are getting it supplies and trying to spread the primer under its direction.
>>44407514
That's clearly written from an in-world perspective.
They're the secret police.
>3 - SHUTTER
>The Chroniclers of the Cluster are a special breed, most of them cannot survive on the outside. Agents who understand that in time are different. Some enter side branches of the decision tree leading away from the official hierarchy. Like Streamers, they get jobs in the alcoves or at the image walls, but they have different goals. They require sanctioned (read: deadly) technology. If they accept, they are registered as Shutters and do the dirty work in the Order’s deepest shadow.
Most people don't know about them.
>>44407620
Bat Family is the best part of DC. I need to read more Bat Family books. I'm actually running a WoD game set in pre-Batman Gotham.Although most of them would be better without the Bat theme. Which if they show up in my game as NPCs, I'll be doing.
>>44407587
If they can catch me. My character isn't named Hare for nothing.
>>44407677
Yeah Rory our tastes are incompatable.
And for the record Gotham is honestly kind of a sinkhole in terms of characters. A lot of them get discarded or forgotten like Cassandra Cain, Harper's pretty much destined to be forgotten once dyed sidecuts are out of fashion.
Anyways you should probably try the Batman Beyond books (before Tim Drake got involved in a kudzu timetravel plot) Elseworlds, and Batman Superman as some of the wilder gotham adventures aren't mainline continuity. Gotham by Gaslight is fun and there's a Cthulu mythos story whose name I can't recall that's pretty good.
>>44407384
The left shoulder gubbins look like a refueling point and or the reactor that powers it
The feet were designed to run after people, and the hands are meant to be as dexterous as human ones, the AMSUMO's are police robots so they needed speed and dexterity. As for the chest, the pistons probably help with full range of motion in the spine and thorax
>>44407850
They could be piston mountings I suppose, the chest I mean. But a spinal arrangement with some kind of artificial muscle would work better than pistons for that. The stuff on the shoulder though? Can't forgive that, generatore and refueling shit would be better on the back with some armoring. Feet would be better with a plantigrade set up, as it is the knees bluntly look warped and nonfunctional. Plus it's a robot, it should have a rifle not a poorly made sledgehammer, or a taser or something. It's an overall bad robot design. Good art but the artist really should consult a designer next time.
Then again I'm the kind of guy who sends little rovers with drumfed AKs after my players.
>>44407757
>Yeah Rory our tastes are incompatable.
It's spooky when people know who I am.
>Characters getting discarded
I'm aware. Batman stories that don't involve the Justice League are still some of the more interesting ones to me. It's like the opposite of Spider-Man, who's plots are all "lolclones" and "spiderspiderspider realities!"; though I'll admit I don't read comics so much as read about them. Although it seems like actually reading them still requires having the Wiki open.
>dyed sidecuts
>ever not being in fashion
Stylish Clanners will be wearing their hair like that.
>>44407575
Well, like I said, I basically had to binge last minute to make my character. I spent the better part of the day yesterday ̶p̶r̶o̶c̶r̶a̶s̶t̶i̶n̶a̶t̶i̶n̶g̶ reading over the Cults and trying to get it all making sense, then just sort of said fuck it and threw together a last minute Judge (the fact that some of them use dyes and temporary markings to brand people as opposed to just breaking hands right away pushed me over the edge; I like lawgivers who aren't BLAM right away).
My (very unexperienced) thoughts so far are:
-- Between WoD, Witch Hunters, Shadowrun, and Degenesis, I still prefer d10 pools to d6 pools.
-- I feel that Triggers are too necessary, but also not great. I don't know, I was thinking about whether or not they should count as 2 or explode. Another player was mentioning how De made her remember how much she dislikes systems where success requires more than one "success". So far everything has required multiple Successes, and probably a Trigger.
-- I'm not fond of the Faith/Willpower or Focus/Primal dichotomy, especially since as far as I can tell there's no mechanical difference between each pair.
-- Combination skills seem to complicated; in mining De for ideas for my own system, I'd take a (rarely used) page from WoD's book: Instead of rolling twice, use the lesser of the pools and roll that. Or just adding the second skill to the roll; But I like fewer rolls.
-- I feel kind of naked with only one Potential to start; I probably wouldn't mind if they weren't an option, but only getting one makes me feel weaker. Especially because my damned hammer is so bulky.
-- I don't like that the Spit and the Swiss whore get a better weapon than me.
>>44408035
Sidecuts are frankly one of the ugliest things I have ever laid eyes on and people who enjoy them mystify me.
Secondly don't shit talk spiderman unless you read spiderman. Peter has various stages in his life nd his struggles revolve around balancing his life as a civilian and superhero with limited resources for both ends of his life.
In veneral both characters and their supporting casts suffer from status quo, idiotic demands from marketing, sometimes arbitrary, sometimes reasonable demands from editors and of course changing things to suit the movies now that marvel and DC are using them to try and bring in new readers along with that dumb variant cover speculation.
No Miles doesn't count as a spiderman book since he's black peter parker with a stupid mutant power instead of improbable scientific genius. He's basically a clone saga character but less interesting than Kain and with a costume nowhere near as cool as the scaet spider.
>>44407954
>should have a rifle
If you don't care about the fact that the robots have no way to get ammo once they depleted the local stores, they're still 4 meter tall police bots built for intimidation and law enforcement.
The whole clothing/primitive weapons thing only affects the ones wtith the 2°16 phenomena. But I agree with the weird tank thingy on the shoulder, though thats the only picture that shows one with it, the others are more realistic.
>>44408164
Emotionally, I like the concept, and it's similar to a game I've wanted to do in nWoD or M&M or modified Shadowrun or something, where it's post apocalypse and society is rebuilding and there are monsters and shit around. But some of the setting aspects are kind of dumb to me.
-- Europe has different cultures every ten feet, but Africa is just "Africa".
-- It's hard to be not-Cultish; the game is based on what you can do for your group
-- Many of the groups seem like they wouldn't actually be exploring in the first place except on Cult duty
-- Most Cults don't seem to like each other, and many of them feel like "designated antagonist groups" but aren't; why would Palers and Scourgers work with literally anyone?
-- The whole "Africa has guns and money" stuff seems really silly, though I haven't read most of that; I just find "this one place and only this one place has NATO guns" kind of laughable.
-- there's "Magic" in the setting, but it's inherently evil; I don't know, I'm just worn out on the concept of "all magic corrupts".
-- It feels weird that Africa is part of the setting, but barely there. Like I said, it's one culture for the entire continent. It would be more interesting if Africa was broken and flooded and the whole Mediterranean done up Atlantropa style so that both continents were more one continent separated by a lake, and then Africa merged with Europe and it made more sense to have African characters in the setting.
I do have nice things, but the problems stick out more.
>>44408189
Wasn't the most interesting thing to happen to Peter Parker in recent years that Doc Ock took over his body?
Spider-Stuff is silly and dumb. But let's stick to Degenesis.
>>44408230
I recommend that you read the books first. That should settle most of your points.
>>44408213
Okay that's a much better design and solves literally ever problem I had with it.
>>44408256
No Superior Spiderman was a 2 to 6 issue event dragged out till long after it wore out it's welcome. It was an interesting e periment but slott's writing style boils down to taking a failry typical shock.story and stretching it out till everyone is sick of it.
Spiderverse was another fun concept he ruined by pushong his OC's and trying to rile fans. Some people like SpOck. No one pretends Superior wasn't a shit show or that Spiderverse wasn't a blunt dissapointment.
You might as well bring up Dick taking up the cowl or Jason Todx being ressurected as the only bat stories of note in the 00s.
>>44408230
Scourgers could work in a party of "Neolibyan and his employees", or one led by an Anubian.
Palers though, I have no idea.
>>44408382
Go play with the kids, grown ups are talking.
>>>/co/
>>44408272
Well explain what I'm missing.
>>44408418
Yeah, they'll work with the NeoLib, but that's about it. So many Cults just seem to hate each other that it's hard to DO certain party configurations.
>>44408472
>Grown ups
We're still in our thirties playing pretend. Either we're all grown ups or none of us are.
>>44408418
Palers work with some Scrappers to find vaults. When they go out on the surface they often fall in with mixed cult groups that are messing around with old ruins.
>>44408649
Read the books already. Clearly a large portion of posters is overwhelmed with the adult themes of the game. Withdrawing to a general "Either we're all _, or" won't be of any use here.
>>44408649
Well in some cases you can have speshul snowflakes. A Euro scrapper who's gotten tired of Chronicler nonsense and starts collecting his own lore and scrap and builds his own little tribe for instance.
In general though the Africans play poorly with Euro tribes and vice versa. You could maybe have Palers forsake thwir vault mission or get raided and tossed out into the wastes but in general it takes some mental gymnastics to make this shit work in places.
>>44408753
Degen's adult themes aren't that deep really. One of the great barriers here is the old "well how do we know each other" there's room to manuever but it takes some thought on the part of players and GMs.
>>44408753
... what adult themes? What are you talking about?
I just don't see what you're getting at about the setting.
>>44408788
>>44408907
>In general though the Africans play poorly with Euro tribes and vice versa
You've also got everyone hating Palers and Apocalyptics, Jehemmadans and Anabaptists hating each other... Clanners apparently don't like Judges. Most people dislike the Hellvetics barricading the Alps. Everyone else is vague levels of tolerance for each other.
I don't mind tense politics, but any decently sized party is going to have to do gymnastics to make sure their Cults don't hate each other, and that's on top of the usual trouble of "how do we know each other and why do we stick together?". The whole thing is one of the reasons I feel like every fantasy travelogue setting should have a Murderhobos, Inc. thing.
Pathfinder (Society) and Shadowrun are the only games I've seen that actually handle that question well:
>Why are you together?
>Official murderhoboing
I sure hope "everyone hates everyone else" isn't the "adult themes" being talked about.
And it's frustrating that "speshul snowflakes" are the only ones who work as PCs. But at the same time they're probably not going to rank up, because Rank is so tied to NOT being a PC. I mean, my Judge technically should be staying in a city as the sheriff. That's bad for PCing.
>>44409142
Well the game takes place during a great upheaval. Ask the GM to give your GM a great bounty to hunt, you're a travelling Ranger. In the origonal sense of the term, one who ranges and problem solves across a large territory. Judges do like to engage in a little imperialism with their law.
The Clanners who hate Judges are basically MadMax raiders, they don't all have to be assholes who hate law and order.
>>44409494
Judges can be wandering lawmen, but Rank 2's description is still technically "City Judge".
I'm not saying I can't ignore that; I'm just saying that the default is hard for a PC.
>>44409545
Welcome to concept specific advancement systems. The material in the book is a starting point, some campaigns might be city centric, others could be nomadic. Adapt as best you can
>>44409142
they literally give you stereotypes, that said. I understand your apprehension but really if you peel back the layers you start to see most cults intermingle pretty readily. Some hate each other, but again that's not near as prevalent as you make it. Hell most people in Europe don't care about the Neolybians or the Anubians just the Scourgers who go around fucking raiding people.
>>44410139
Almost every Euro view on NeoLibyans is "I hear they eat babies"
>>44410487
Well, yeah, the chroniclers are telling everyone that.
>>44410487
in places wheres there's Chronicler/Hyberspanians yeah. Borcans for the most part don't outright attack but they're not welcome either. I imagine Polleners don't give a shit as they're trying to kill biokinetics if just for sport.
America
>>44411967
you trying to talk about that NA homebrew anon cause I want to talk about the NA homebrew anon
>mfw Jehammed=Jesus+Mohamad.
>>44413784
It would make the thread stay alive, yeah. I'm not involved with it (I'm the person who's new to the game) but I'd like to see this thread stick around.
So, a neolybian, a scrapper and a Jehammedian walk into a bar...what happens?
>>44413784some of the stuff we came up with for Black Hats might translate well here I supposeAssuming there isn't already a group of secretive monster hunting cowboys in Degen's Namerica
>>44395944
>Discussion of the day
Oh, my.
>>44415023
Good job with the quest. I like your writing style.
>>44395944
North America should be shortened to "Murka"
Appalacians could be called "The Purple Mountains" in reference to spore growth.
So that character in at the end of the scourgers chapter, is she just a normal woman that is referred to as a hermaphrodite because of esoteric nonsense or is she actually a kleinfelter hermaphrodite?
>>44420792
pretty sure its the latter
>>44420792
>kleinfelter hermaphrodite?
Pretty sure it's probably future space genetics hermaphrodite.
Anyone else bugged by africa magically overcoming millenia old tribal rifts and invading europe in a reverse colonialism plundering where they steal ny tech they can get their hands on? This is historically on of the most fractious tribal shitholes in the history of the world and pretty much all it's harbors are located near disease ridden swamps (which is why global trading empires were never initiated by africa, not being stupid they made the connection between the swamps and disease and left the area) this is Shadowrun Amerindian levels of playing up poorly researched and understood cultures for the sake of setting flavor.
>>44424191
>>44423044
>>44420792
I think it's entirely open to interpretation and wholly irrelevant in the face of all the other weird the setting has to offer.
>>44424387
Basically they don't care and just want to treat Africa as one place. I feel like it would have made more sense if most of Africa had just fallen into the ocean or been cut off by desert. As is it just seems... "Eh, all the black people come from there, it must be the same place".
If all the Africans had originally been refugees or invaders, that would make a lot more sense. Instead they were doing super well in their own massive monolith country and then decided to take their dinar up north.
>>44424550
>>44424387
from what i read, the people that largely make up "africa" are descendants of refugees moving into north africa so they could have better access to the new cure for the new hiv strain or just trying to avoid getting it in the first place.
>>44414989
tell me more anon, i put up a similar idea in a previous thread but no one seemed to buy into it
>>44424639
Yeah, but you've got, what, five or six Euro cultures? And then Africa is treated as one place.
>>44424387
>>44424550
>>44424639
Africa still has different tribes and clans, but they share a common language and way of thinking thanks to the mind altering influence of the psychovores. Their living conditions are also pretty similar thanks to the climate change.
Though it's interesting how the cultures of europe evolved around their corresponding chakras. It's funny how much of the mindset of a biokinetic is anchored in the average Pollener or how the sense of unity and shared thinking from the heart chakra is apparent in both the pheromancers and the resistance.
>>44425077
The common language and merging of interests, as well as the spirituality of the Africans, could be a hint that the psychovores are the raptus of the crown chakra. But there are equally as many clues that point towards them beeing an experiment/defense mechanism of the Anubis Syndicate.
>>44424387
It's really been one of the more dumb parts of the setting for me. Just because some fucking asshole Spaniards slap their shit they all just start getting along in order to get revenge on whitey? That's dumb as all hell, considering that plenty of tribes sold out their enemies to slavers when the slave trade was happening. I think they squandered a good opportunity to have something like warring merchant republics that are divided by culture, ripping europe to shreds as they compete with one another to become the local powerhouse. Something else that confuses me is where did the North African Arab population go? They were mentioned when the Spanish invaded, but they haven't been mentioned since and now everyone is as black as the ace of spades. Have they been breed out of existance?
>>44425222
Nah, two of the Neolybians look quite Arabic to me.
I'm pretty shure the onslought of the spaniards after the Eschaton was predicted by Getrell, as well as the retaliaton of the Africans. But the whole "Lion eats Crow" thing could be part of Norman Thornes revengeance. It would make sense that he'd try to stop Getrells plan of world domination by whiping out his memetic successors and securing the dominance of the syndicate.
>Murricans thinking North Africa should be Subsaharan Africa
lrn2globe some time
>>44425414
what are you talking about you twit, everyone is complaining about so many different cultures being forced to cooperate and actually pulling it off despite having no real obligation to.
>>44425222
you can't breed something out of existence, they still exist in culture as well as genetically
>>44425530
Yes, tardo fuckwit, everyone whom you do not understand must be a twit. Go tell your mommy, she understands you, even if she couldn't teach you proper semantics.
Some dim bulbs upstream considered it overly simplified to combine all Northern African cultures into just a few, all under one label for the scope of the game. But they are struggling with their hazy memories of newscasts from West Africa or Somalia while in the game those are as gone as Sweden. The Mediterranean coast of Africa is one cultural sphere, even today. And it has nothing to do with the Congo.
>>44425077
You don't think it's still sort of silly that all of Africa is one culture while Europe gets several?
>>44425222
I wouldn't mind so much if either Africa as a continent had been somehow reduced in size, or if Africa got so much as one other Culture.
>>44425414
>>44425624
Everyone here is literally complaining about that exact thing. We're saying that everyone from Degenesis Africa is AFRICAN as opposed to any sort of diverse ethnicities.
Like... Africa in Degenesis is basically Darkest Continent Kenya.
>>44426116
Culture in Degenesis seems to be about how you think. The way you live is specified by your cult or clan.
It's weird, but it makes kinda sense when you remember that the people resonate with their earth chakra thanks to magic meteors.
>>44426116
I don't know man, Neolibyans really owe a lot more to Arab merchants than any African stereotype. Hell Tripol looks a lot like the Degenesis answer to Dubai, with all the excessive spending and focus on flaunting your wealth everywhere you go
The Scourgers being a weird hybrid between Kenyan, Masai and Zulu is an odd culture mish mash I'll grant you, but they do explain there was a mass migration to North Africa in a bid to escape super-necrotic HIV as they believed Europe had a cure and just wasn't given it to Africans
>>44425222
The hatred of Europe had set in a while before the Eschaton, huge numbers of Africans had moved northward to escape HIVE and believed Europe had a cure. Said refugees tried to cross the Mediterranean and got turned back with violence. That their first contact with Europe post-disaster was the Spanish stealing their oil was the final nail in the coffin, it became obvious that Europeans would always try and steal from Africa so Africans resolved to steal from them now they had the upper hand
>>44425624
The whole of Europe has like 6 u ique cultures, africa, a continent much larger than europe has one culture and either a secret society or psychic plant hive mind is responsible.
Feels off. Should have more variety than one Ur culture.
>>44426433
Culture in real life is about how you think. Hell, your first language helps shape how you think about things, even if its just in terms of grammatical structures.
>>44426448
They do have more than one though. You've got the merchant Neolibyans, who aren't nearly as respected as the militant and tribal Scourgers, who in turn pay begrudging respect to the Anubians who act as priests in certain places, or guides in others where the psychovore is thicker or closer
Plus you can easily make African clanners if you want, just outline the traditions of your home village
>>44426459
That would explain a lot, because the psychovores gave the africans one unified language.
>>44426511
There's hints its done more than that. Reading through the scourgers there whole cult seems like its been influienced in the same way. I'd argue its not that there isn't tons of varied cultures in Africa its just that the book doesn't delve as deeply into them because I mean fuck its already 300+ pages of just setting for Europe.
>>44424639
http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive.html?searchall=Black+Hats
alright this is where we did all our brainstorming here but it boils down to this
>Black Hats are a secretive order that tend to travel across North America as small posses. Probably buff up their travel groups to a couple dozen for Degen
>they have 3 Strongholds, on on the Border of Mexico, One on the Border of Canada, and one in the Midwest
>They do not give a flying fuck who you were before you became a Black Hat as long as you don't rape, murder thieve, or otherwise act like a filthy degenerate
>A black hat starts as a white hat, then he kills a monster and after his first successful hunt he dyes the hat black with whatever is on hand
>Black Hats keep to The Seven a rule of conduct that they stick to for the rest of their life
>Their Signature Weapon is a high caliber seven shot revolver, usually covered in mystical symbols. Often times they'll also make use of things like lever action rifles, muskets, shotguns and so on. Automatics are frowned on but wouldn't be unheard of in Degen
>As a group they'd likely be fond of and relied upon by American Spitalians. Presumably they'd hunt Psychonauts and other dangerous mutants
>They rever "The Man in Black" their founder, dead centuries ago, a man who supposedly killed the antichrist in a pitched battle for the soul of america and travelled with 6 other warriors, each one representing an archetype a Black Hat can aspire to (smooth talker, proud hunter, guileful gambler etc)
that's about all I got without going through the thread for salient details, if you like I can dig up more and we can expand on it for Degen.
>>44426433
Culture is where you came from. And Africa gets one of them while Europe gets many.
>>44426442
Zulu, that's the word I was looking for. Still, it's also weird to have the Africans go so far back into history. The Euro Cults are all technologically advanced or based on post-Eshaton things (the Judges are clearly descended from some hobo, the Clanners are Mad Max rejects, the Jehameds and Anabaptists are rediscovered Abrahamic religion, Spits and Hells are basically broken future shit, Palers are Fallout Morlocks). The African ones are shit that barely exists now, like super tribal shit and ancient Egyptian mythology.
>>44426497
No, they have one Culture. They have three Cults. Honestly the Cults should be different Cults.
>You can easily make African clanners if you want
You can also make African Scrappers (and they get talked about a bit). But Africa is still treated monolithically.
There should be at least two African Cultures, but there's only one. Scourgers might as well just be Clanners, and Neolibyans and Anubians would be better served as Cultures. Except Anubians are too mired in weird Cult shit. It doesn't help that all the African shit is basically African only, and Africa Culture is basically only the African Cults+Clanner/Scrapper/Apocalyptics.
As is, Africa really might as well not be in the setting. Like... literally, the country itself. There's some interesting setting stuff, but it's so ridiculous. The entire country is treated as so damned small, and for some reason that just grates on me.
>>44427024
Africa is like, the second laregest continent in the world and has an absurd amount of diverse cultures, even now with globalization homogenizing things. (nevermind the odd report of backwards savagery out of that place) "Africa gets it's shit together" I can buy in a post-apocalyptic setting. "Africa becomes one monolithic ur culture" A: does the region a disservice by disregarding the wide range of still evolving cultures it has and B: as it is Africa feels like an after thought in the book. I mean it's 300 pages long, goddamn, but it feels like Africa would've been better as an expansion later on than a last chapter in the book.
can someone overlay a map of the chakras on the body with a map of degenesis?
>>44427138
>Africa is like, the second laregest continent in the world and has an absurd amount of diverse cultures
This is a bit of a useless comparison since the area that's actually looked at encompasses primarily a stretch along the northern coast, essentially the former Sahara and anything north of it. I'll absolutely agree that it could stand to be separated into at least two distinct cultures, but most of the variety you're referring to is in areas that are beyond what's actually in the area covered in-game.
For comparison, the area of in-game africa encompasses a current-day population of ~200 million people. Most other in-game cultures/countries encompass areas closer to ~60-100 million people (Balkhan in particular is a huge mash-up), so splitting the african cultures into two or three would work out pretty well.
>>44427138
Yeah, I agree with that. There's definitely scope within Africa as written to imagine your own cultures or use modern ones, but as it stands its a bit of a rump bit of the book that's focused on Europe. Which is fine, as its a post-apocalyptic game at its core and Africa has its shit together so well its post-post apocalyptic, but it would be great if they did an expansion delving more into the cultures and the regional differences that get hinted at in Africa
For example, they mention blocks of African traders on the Atlantic coast who defy Tripol and sail up to Britain to trade with the Vulture, which sounds like a very interesting counterweight to the sheer draw of Tripol
>>44427509
>This is a bit of a useless comparison since the area that's actually looked at encompasses primarily a stretch along the northern coast
Except that the Africa part of the map is the largest. Either don't make something half the map and then ignore it or don't include it at all. It encompasses so much because they use "Africa" instead of having each country be it's own thing, the way that Borca and Hybrispania and Pollen get to be their own things.
>>44427535
Seriously, just TWO African cultures would make it reasonable. Have Neolibyans and Anubians be cultures. Then it's fine. Ignore Scourgers because fuck they're dumb Darkest Continent shit that doesn't fit in Nafrica. Replace with a different, less "fuck whitey" version of Neolibyans.
Also something else that Degenesis seems to be missing is Asian, Middle Eastern, and American cultures. Not on the map or as countries (which Culture might as well be) but as Cultures without country. I mean, the only Refugees that seem to exist are African?
>>44428032
Could be a nice upcoming expansion, at the very least relegating Scourgers to Clanners in Africa.and having the Anubians and NeoLibyans vying for control of Africa could be fun.
I love how much this game inspires people who know nothing about the world to spew nonsense.
>Canada is larger than the US, therefore it is the most relevant culture in America today
>>44428190
wtf is up with the Indian population? Whats with that massive line along the top, am I being a dumb dumb?
>>44428214
>massive line along the top
Clouds rain out rising up the Himalayas, creating a fertile zone at their base. This has been a cradle of culture for Millennia.
>>44428190
When was the last time you saw all of Canada on a US map?
>>44428269
>>44428214
It's called the Gangetic Plain. The fertile valley of one of the biggest rivers in the world. It is a byword for overpopulation.
>>44428190
Well "Relevant" in terms of culture is debatable but yes Canada doesn't have much global impact in terms of pop culture or military interventionism or political pressures. It does have a significant market and nice education service producing skilled laborers and doctors and stuff I guess.
>>44428397
Idk about that there's a fair few Canadian actors and musicians out there. I mean they operate via American channels but they're there.
>>44428477
see "skilled workers" acting is a trade, if we saw a style of book, movie, videogame or some other entertainment dominating the world stage and canada was totes tops at it that'd be different but culturally canada is very similar to the US so their actors aren't really that too different from american actors despite their skills. Same jobs, different country of origin.
>>44428032
But Anubians are the African equivalent of Spitalians and Palers, just for the Anubys Syndicate. Seriously, all that stuff with the purestrain and the ancients is too specific and scientific to be captured in a culture.
>>44428032
>Asian
We eated them.
>>44427243
It's no map, but I can list the cultures:
Muladhara: Survival/Instincts/LowerBack/Pandora/Pollen/Biokinetics
Swadhistana: Sexuality/Genitals/Atlantic, gonna be specified in Black Atlantic
Manipura: Power/Elevation/Solar Plexus/Nox/Purgare/Biokinetics
Anahata: Love/Harmony/Heart/Souffrance/Franka/Pheromancers
Vishuddha: Communication/Expression of Emotions/Usud/Balkhan/Dushani
Ajna: Intuition/Foresight/Mirar/Hybrispania/Precognics
Sahasrara: Spirituality/Connection on a fundamental level/"Mystical oneness". Most likely located in Africa, though Borca is also a possibility
>>44428785
*Psychokinetics, Throat, Thrid Eye/Forehead
Derp
>>44428032
Bear in mind its been 500 years since the disaster, a lot of refugees or people on foreign travel have more than likely be subsumed by the local gene pool, assuming they had children at all.
>>44428807
I don't really see a ethnicity like Arabs disappearing over a mere 5 centuries. Nevermind Asians.
>>44428785
So does that clarify the distribution of cultures in the game for everyone?
Okay then.
Can someone post the prophecy of the jackal in english please? I want to interpret that shit real hard
>>44428580
There should at least be a second Africa culture.
>>44427243
>>44428785
I'm still piecing this shit together, what's this about chakras and cultures?
>>44428859
Not in the least.
>>44428807
This >>44428834 but also I hate how far the timeline is. Most of the areas in the game went from dirt farming to global powers in a shorter time span and they didn't have the benefit of fancy future tech lying around.
>>44430430
>cowboy zombie.jpeg
>>44428870
Here you go.
Does in thy blood go over the geographic changes that have taken place in Franka or are things not that different? I'm starting to put a game together and i think I want to have it start there
>>44429065
true but did they do so after a literal world shaking event and fighting alien fungus monsters?
so, I've taken a glance at this game's system and think it may be a good fit for a homebrew I'm working on.
think this system could run a Victorian era, slightly-eldritch, low-magic, Gothic, horror-fantasy setting? (hunting monsters like werewolves and vampires-n'-shit)
>>44431623
haven't tried just using Hunter: The Vigil?
>>44431671
looked at, but the nWoD general people were unhelpful when I went to them for the home-brewing assistance.
it could probably work, but people keep telling me that the nWoD system would make it boring and repetitive...and I SURE AS BALLS don't want to make this in D&D 3.5
>http://i.4cdn.org/tg/1451197059094.pdf
>>44431804
tried OWOD?
>>44416028
Thanks. I'm gonna be having the next part up within the next day or two. I'm glad there are people here who are enjoying.
>>44431804
Try Savage worlds, I can't comment on KatharSys as I'm working on the fluff (300 fucking pages) at the moment. M&M is also an option if you don't have to worry about munchkins.
>>44431825
never even thought to look, any notable system changes over nWoD?
bear in mind I'm only looking for a SYSTEM and not a setting. cause I have nearly enough setting...
>>44431623
could try savage world's rippers. just toss out the silly or magical stuff too potent for your setting.
Rippers is basically van helsing at its base. But with more cocaine ghosts. Ok, 1 cocaine ghost if you read the one-shot material.
>>44431082
In Thy Blood is primarily set in Purgare buddy. For Franka though, it's pretty damn infested with Pheromancers because even before the Eschaton, France was fundamentally a marshy land. At least the parts that people inhabited.
>>44431082
Franka is 90% Swamp now, it was already marshy as fuck. The Africans looted all the tech from the coastal cities and fucked off like the Parasites they are, Pheromancers control a significant portion of the place and Anabaptists and Spitallians continue an eternal crusade in the hopes of reclaiming the place from Psychonauts and Aberrants.
What are surge tanks? Or how do they look like?
They seem to just be massive land ships
>>44432299
they're pretty much land cruisers
honestly it's a fucking stupid idea if you have anyone on hand who understands modern military tactics and has access to artillery.
>>44432343
But the thing is, no one understands modern military tactics anyway. Like seriously Large scale warfare in Degensis is all really just gurellia warfare or medieval
And does anyone have a picture of one?
Trying to make an Apocalyptic master gambler, but I'm at a loss as to what rank I should try and start with. Any suggestions?
>>44432402
I don't
but literally all it takes is one shmuck digging up an artillery piece and suddenly surge tanks are fucked. Nevermind ditches and IEDs
>>44432462
magpie most likely.
>>44432402
Included the tables with the buggy for scale
>>44432505
Also, aren't there ones that are much bigger as well? I know there were several Surge Tanks that had to be shipped over in pieces and assembled before rolling out. And..Totally using a wrecked Surge tank left to rot in Pollen as a dungeon.
>>44432598
Yeah there's bigger.
>>44432598
one of the ones described in the Africa fluff piece in primal punk is 4 stories high.
I like to imagine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crawler-transporter is used by remnants of the US government in Tex.
>>44432598
>>44432651
Yeah, that's just the only picture (To my knowledge)
Are there rules for what skills are used in gambling in the books?
>>44431804
>looked at, but the nWoD general people were unhelpful when I went to them for the home-brewing assistance.
What are you talking about? I'd be all over that. Hell, there's already rules for Victorian era settings. And for hunting monsters.
Shit, I mentioned wanting to do a "cheesy Castlevania bullshit" game and people thought that was a great idea. Go to the /wodg/ and ask for advice. >>44382062
>That pdf
Oh. I'm the one who was giving you adviceSome of which you didn't really take. No one said it would be boring or repetitive. Your problem is mostly that you want a lot of help homebrewing a system when you're not all that familiar with it. You'll have the same problem in KatharSys or Shadowrun or Savage Worlds or Mutants & Masterminds or anything you use.
Learn the system inside and out before you try to change it. Learn MANY systems inside and out before you try to homebrew. I CANNOT stress that enough. At the very least, read up on rules and mechanics from a variety of systems. You will not be able to do what you want until you've done that.
So what are some good random encounters to throw at players?
>>44433155
The book itself (Somewhere in Katharsys at the start of the Forbidden Zone) recommends many things appears as hazards outside of combat situations, to encourage problem-solving over linear SMASH ALL THING. Just something to bear in mind while writing these.
I'm just curious, anyone know the correct damage code for unarmed fighters? Using the brawl skill specifically.
>>44433155
The ground suddenly breaks away as the characters fall into a buried building potentionally full of pre-Eshaton items. To think of all the drafts they could gain from this!
>>44433512
>drafts
>dinars
A: fuck the chroniclers I'm sick of their close mouthed bullshit
B: fuck Neolibs and all africans in general
C: take the items, keep them yourself. harness the old world. Reclaim the legacy of the bygones
Speaking of pre-Eshaton stuff, any clarification on what one would find in a regular home? Apart from Stream/meme related stuff
>>44432885
>Shadowrun
not that one, I'm actually pretty sure I got that one down pat. I figured asking about KatharSys would be a little better since it covers a lower tech-level kind of setting it might feel better for this kind of game, and it's an attribute+skill d6 pool system so I was hoping it would be a straight forward matter to brew in it over the shadowrun system.
being the ForeverGM to a group that seldom plays and never wants to devote effort to learning the system means that I never really get the practical experience playing or GMing anything long enough to get a working knowledge of it...
I can improvise all kinds of shenanigans, I just never get a group that wants to play by any set down rules...
>>44433726
The same shit you'd find in a regular home today really, apart from the stream there doesn't seem to have been a massive revolution in how people live
Of course its probably been picked over by hundreds of Scrappers by now, but if there's walls standing you could get creative and nick some copper, I imagine conductive metals sell well to Chroniclers
>>44433843
Spitalians would value copper. As would scrappers since it tends to kill bacteria on contact. Canteens lined with it would keep water relatively hygenic and medical tools made from it would be easier to keep sterile even if they would need to be sharpened more often.
>>44433726
really what you'd find in a typical home plus some microchips. The stream was basically the Cloud taken to the Nth degree. Your coffee maker was recording data, your walls were possibly T.V.s and you still had a crappy futon.
So how do Chroniclers build and maintain shit if they cant do anything by themselves?
>>44437148
They can do tech shit like no one else, even Scrappers, but they're descended from a collection of nerds, transhuman wannabes and tech fetishists so couldn't really stand up in a fight. So they created their funky suits, rigged up some future AAA powered gizmos into their hands and parade around pretending to be gods and using their advanced tech to gather info to hold over the heads of people who don't buy the "vengeful god of lightning who can tase you with their pinkie" shtick
bump
>>44438335
pretty much though they do have members that are more..direct about how they go about things.
>>44441996
their secret police aren't large in number, and shutters in general have to be pretty careful because once they get figured out any number of people will (literally) eat them alive.
>>44442013
yeah true but they are there. It fits with the Chroniclers modus really. They're very passive-aggressive with how they deal with other factions. I mean look at how they responded to Neolybians.
>>44442035
The Neolibs have a pretty strong backing from the writers so I'm left uncertain as to how an open conflict between Chrons and Neolibs would go. Neolibs would probably win because "Muh Noble Savages, Muh Merchant Warlords"
honestly I find both groups equally vile, the idea that every scrapper wants to one day visit African occupied Sicily because the African Scrapper clans are so grate you guise disgusts me.
>>44442072
in all fairness, the Neolybs have goddamn tanks when most people in Europe have if they're lucky a matchlock rifle. And its also been shown that the Neolybians really don't give a fuck about much more than accumulating wealth for the sake of wealth. Scourgers are the ones that wanna get back at whitey at all costs. Neolybs might use slaves yes, but I'm sure they realize enslaving all of europe is kinda pointless when what they want is the resources there and would then have to deal with revolt after revolt.
>>44442192
Honestly, the giant siege tanks are kinda silly (he says referring to the setting where there are giant craters that twist evolution around chakras in some kind of weirdass new age mysticism) the Neolibs figured out tanks, all it takes is one Europeon scrapper to figure out Artillery and build a couple cannons and he's suddenly the nightmare of the NeoLib scrapping community.
as for the Scourgers? Slightly more racist clanners doing their best to pretend they aren't the inheritors of General Butt Naked's Legacy. I dunno why they exist honestly, in general Africa's history as presented in the book is just sorta...why is this here? Shouldn't africa have it's own splat?
The Leopards looked more interesting than this nonsense.
oh and the Anubians are garbage.
Garbage.
>>44442268
I like the anubians. What about them makes them seem Garbage?
>>44442352
They're an Ancient Egyptian Cult 500 years after the fall of human civilization using new age psionic mysticism to give Africa it's own spitalian group. They add to the overwhelming "noble savage" vibe that Africa gets from the Scourgers and it just turns me off.
NeoLybs at least have crass materialism and the technology to pursue it, what do Anubians have? Mysticism and an Anachronistic cult mixed in with whatever the devs felt like tossing in. It stinks.
>>44433432
They're found on page 156 Katharsys, on the bottom of the page. Note that most unarmed attacks can only do fairly mediocre ego damage, you'll need brass knuckles or a blade bracelet to actually deal fleshwounds and trauma. Well, or try to bite dudes, but good luck with -3D handling and F/3 damage.
>>44442387
I dunno, it's a rather prominent theme in the Anubians that their mysticism is primarily upheld outwardly, to secure their status among the african society. The book explicitly makes the point that the more experienced and further inducted an anubian becomes, the more they leave behind their spiritualism in favour of simple empiricism. They also have an interesting hook what with being directly, biologically related to the psychovore somehow, as well as "Anubianism" being essentially a genetic attribute.
>>44442573
I don't like it and I don't like the Psychovores somehow unifying africa. But whatever, later books will likely expand on Psychovore and Sepsis influence on humanity.
god knows I could play a game where I never even see Neolybs, Anubians or a single african.
The idea that there's only 'One' Culture in Africa is overly simplistic and ignoring some stuff from the book.
While it's true that African society in Degenesis has become somewhat unified through a common language and by accepting the three unique Cults. (NeoLibs, Scourgers and Anubians.) as integral aspects of a shared Over-culture, there are still unique Clans, Tribes and other such groups and organizations.
We see it in groups like the Leopards, African Scrapper Clans, African Apocalyptics and other groups like the ones that capture Discordance Beasts.
On a Macro Level it might look like there's a monolithic culture and on some levels this is true....But when you Zoom in you'd still find that there are some actual subtle or even large differences between tribes and families.
>>44443256
still a monolithic over culture that no other group has, and one that's 70% "noble savage" and 30% "mo money"
Africa needs to be it's own book, not a splat at the end of the europe book.
>>44442072
holy shit, what's your beef with the neolybians almost every complaint you said could be said for any cult in the game
>>44443304
The issue with there being an Over-Culture though is that there is some obvious Pyschovore dickery at work. The first edition even mentioned that Tribes that had been isolated from the African Culture had similar enough languages, a Triple Caste system that mirrored the Scourgers, NeoLibs and Anubians and other such values and beliefs. It's obvious that something weird is going on down in Africa.
And while the OverCulture gets a lot of attention its obvious that there are still unique tribes, philosophies and customs. The only thing is that all the rough edges have been smoothed away to allow for greater unity.
I wouldn't go so far as to say that.
Anubians only look to be Noble Savages on the surface when I actuality they have a lot in common with Spitalians.
I'll give you the Scourgers though.
>>44443384
I don't like NeoLybs, deal with it.
>>44443409
point, I dislike Anubians even though they're just playing up Noble Savage to fit in with Butt Naked's inheritors.
though I suppose Africa being some kind of overmind adaptation via psychovores will come up in later adventure modules
>>44443439
Considering that there are now several dozen Rogue Spitalians in a pair of Surge Tanks that are currently steaming towards Cairo? Yeah. We're probably going to get a good look at what the fucks going on.
Never fear! The Spitalians are on the case!
>>44443588
as much as I bitch about Africa I do like the rest of the setting. Pretty much everything else about it is cool.
>>44443651
you just racist
>>44443706
>>44442072
>The Neolibs have a pretty strong backing from the writers
compared to every other cult in the setting, how so?
>Neolibs would probably win because "Muh Noble Savages
neolybians have a whole paragraph about hating the tribal shit the scourgers do because it can be bad for business. They are probably the farthest cult from any kind of savagery.
>the Neolibs figured out tanks
they didn't "figure" them out. they have the resources to actually make hem useful i.e oil.
>all it takes is one Europeon scrapper to figure out Artillery and build a couple cannons and he's suddenly the nightmare of the NeoLib
scrapping community.
anyone with artillery is a threat to europeans and africans alike. It's also pretty unlikely no one has produced cannons yet since fortified cities are very much a thing again.
>Slightly more racist clanners doing their best to pretend they aren't the inheritors of General Butt Naked's Legacy
they are the neolybians military arm with a prime focus on operating in europe. The racism is to be expected slightly, dehumanizing the enemy makes it easier to go to harsher measures to defeat them and to enslave them
.
>They're an Ancient Egyptian Cult 500 years after the fall of human civilization using new age psionic mysticism to give Africa it's own spitalian group
you didn't even read their chapter if this is your complaint.
>They add to the overwhelming "noble savage" vibe
you keep throwing around this term probably because "hur dur african = savage" but scourgers are in no way presented as noble and anubians leave savage behind the higher up they go.
>>44443304
>>44443256
Africa has it's own clan and no more of a over mind than europe does. The only difference is "africa = north africa only" like in roman times and not the full africa we know today. this may largely have to do with most cult operations being focused around the mediterranean
tl;dr
the setting isn't making africans unbeatable
>>44410487
And Hyberspanians is "Dumb africans, babies are for sacrifice!"
>>44442072
Have you read that part about that one balkhan dude blowing up 3 surge tanks and an neolybian army, effectively driving the lybs out of the balkhan for good? That was a chroniclers doing.
>>44442573
>>44442604
The Anubians are all about nanomachines, son. The rings tattoos and their canopies are all made/filled with nanites, which in turn lets them controll the psychovores. Those "plants have to be made of nanites, at least partially, otherwise I couldn't explain their crystaline structure.
I also think that the Psychovores were made by the Anubis Syndicate as a defense mechanism for Cairo. They probably had knowledge of the primer from the first impact thousands of years ago because the whole syndicate was founded to get the sercret of immortality, like the ancient egyptian pharaos, who also had the sickle swords for fighting creatures of the primer. The purestrain is also somewhere in there, but I haven't figured out where it fits, only that it is a prerequisite for joining the anubians.
>>44442192
>>44442268
The fact that some places have weapons and others don't is so ridiculous to me. Like... If the world ended right now, no one would ever really hurt for guns. And creating guns isn't that difficult. They could make guns in the fucking American desert. 500 years after the end of the world as long as one gun exists, you should be able to make a shitload more.
>>44442387
>>44442573
>as well as "Anubianism" being essentially a genetic attribute.
Man, I like Degenesis' core concept, but so much of the setting and set up are dumb. Africa is just so mishandled both from a "this is dumb racism" point of view with the whole savages and whitey revenge shit and bringing up sentiment that even now is barely there, AND from the point of view that everything about it is dumb and mishandled and feels like an after thought on the Europe part.
>>44443256
>The idea that there's only 'One' Culture in Africa is overly simplistic and ignoring some stuff from the book.
"Culture" is literally a trait that you choose.
"Africa" is the trait for all of the black people.
Hell, half my argument is that Africa should be split up, and some of their Cults turned into Cultures.
And even then, the three African Cults seem to be far more interwoven than the Euro cults.
>>44443651
I'm still piecing this shit together, but there's a lot of the setting I'm not fond of, even outside of Africa. For one the game presents itself as "no one knows anything!" but the writers clearly have their metaplot in mind and know what is going on behind the scenes, which means that as a potential GM I wouldn't know how I'm "supposed" to run the game.
>>44444466
I have a Chronicler who is working with a Scrapper to build an artillery fortress with a Scrapper who barely escaped slavery from Scourgers. They're nearby a major NeoLyb trading route and once they manage to get past the obstacles I keep throwing at them they're pretty much gonna hold the trade route hostage and play at diplomacy until the chronicler expedition can get their needle tower going.
>>44444466
Cults and Cultures are used interchangeably, I think you're mixing them up with Clans, which is your regional point of origin. And yeah, Africa probably could stand being broken up into something Coastal, Core and Psychovore-boundary regions or something, but the fluff book alone was pushing 300 pages before they got onto Africa. The core of the action takes place in Europe, and Africa is "that far away land that's more developed then us"
And the writers have a background in mind up to 2593 but there's nothing saying you can't ignore developments, downplay events or flat out ignore certain things if it fits better for your game
>>44444466
gun control varies across the world, in general you'd likely see Lever action, breech loaders, revolvers, and semiautomatic weapons. Never mind how absurdly widespread the AK variants are. The idea that 500 years later Europeans are stuck with blackpowder weapons is just kinda...off. I can see it in an old west "you're poor as shit, make do" situation but even with modern gun control efforts all it takes is one guy with a knack for machines and guns are gonna proliferate. Clanners don't have an excuse for not having guns, and alcohol powered internal combustion vehicles should be pretty common if we're speaking "realistically."
>>44444662
How is ammo made?
How much alcohol do you need to operate a car?
>>44444662
The main issue is ammunition, sure there's going to be vast stocks of rifle ammo first you have to find it and secure it. A lot of people who are using black powder weapons are using it for the sheer convenience of being able to just make your own bullets instead of relying on limited supplies.
>>44444719
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gunpowder
Sulfur, Charcoal, Potassium Nitrate (aka Saltpeter) anyone with a highschool chemistry education could make gunpowder. A significant portion of these chemicals can be found as byproducts of animal dung. You will need metal for casings, Brass is traditional due to it's resistance to corrosion, primer caps are very difficult to make but again, not impossible and you have a period of 500 years to build up a cadre of skilled workers.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcohol_fuel
Ethanol and Methanol are your likely fuel candidates, they are less efficient than normal fossil fuel powered vehicles but it is entirely possible that you could build a series of refueling stations across major trade routes. It's something you'd use if you did not have access to fossil fuels, which a significant portion of Europe does not.
>>44444748
point, you'd wind up with a metro situation where bullets are traded like currency in some cases. Even so relatively simple weapons with capsule ammunition should be fairly common.
>>44432670
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crawler-transporter
Thats what i had in mind
>>44444827
The bugger with building a major alcohol based fueling structure is that, especially now with Chernobog on the loose, a system designed to make people move faster isn't something any major faction is interested in right now
I could definitely see alcohol based fuels being used though, they provide stats for scrapper buggies, apocalyptic attack bikes and some kind of scrapper tractor so you could say those have been converted to use ethanol but are less efficient than petrol based transport
As for capsule rounds, google is being a shit and just showing some rather high tech looking splatter rounds or referring me to Shadowrun forums, could you explain what those are?
>>44444466
I think you guys are forgetting just how severly fucked most of the world was by the eschaton. We're talking a complete resurfacing basically of Europe and the kicking off of what amounts to a nuclear winter thanks to the ash and dust in the air. People likely didn't aim for getting guns back first because at the time this all went down, likely it was put on the back burner before food and shelter from the feet of ashfall, snow and eventually sporefall.
>>44444933
bluntly put a capsule round is basically any form of enclosed bullet. The ones you're familiar with can be seen in just about any form of media, the usual brass shell, a pocket full of gunpowder, a rim that helps hold the capsule in place, primer which ignites the powder, and of course the bullet itself.
with black powder guns usually the bullet will be wrapped with paper and loaded in place. The primer in this case is usually outside of the bullet and placed into or onto a mechanism which leads to the firing chamber so the spark can start the powder leading to explosion which propels the bullet along the barrel. A capsule bullet is one that packages the primer, the powder, and the bullet all together in one convenient package.
Not a term you see often but it's A Thing.
>>44444662
>all it takes is one guy with a knack for machines and guns are gonna proliferate
You're seriously underestimating the economies of scale in this situation. It's not that nobody knows how to make guns, it's simply that the people who do know to make them are outnumbered to a ridiculous degree by those that need them. Certain individuals with access to sufficient resources (usually those from a Cult) may get them, but to put one into every adult Clanner's hand is simply not in the cards.
Take that one guy with a knack for machines and, hell, give him a decently outfitted workshop. So, he sits down and wants to build a functioning modern-ish gun. So, where to start? There are no factories making standardised metal parts any more. So, that means a fair amount of time on the lathe and other machinery to create all the springs, bolts, and other metal parts necessary. These are likely going to be made from repurposed scrap metal, so longevity isn't going to be all that good. Additionally, since he's handcrafting that shit tolerances will have to be loose or otherwise it won't fit, meaning that accuracy and reliability probably won't be too hot either. Creating the component parts and then assembling them is likely going to take days for even one weapon, possibly longer if you want fancy stuff like select fire capability. There's also the stock to hold the whole thing together, which too needs to be manufactured from scratch, be it made of wood or metal. Also, guns need food. Hope you also have a few guys with a knack for chemistry to go along with your machinist, because smokeless propellant and primer are somewhat nontrivial to make, especially without a modern lab.
So, say that guy works manages to put out one of those guns a week. Given the usual wear and tear on weapons as well as assorted losses, the number of guns made by him that are in circulation at any given time is unlikely to ever go beyond double digits. That's just not enough to arm a population.
>>44445037
Ah right, I see, thanks
There's definitely examples of people recycling old bullet casings in Degenesis, they even mention that .357 is so common kids gather them up by the handful and sell them for spare change to weapon makers in towns. Most people can afford a few proper rounds for their guns, its just that blackpowder and lead is a lot cheaper so you get more bullets for your money. Plus they hit like .44 magnum so its got advantages in the power department
>>44444595
>Cults and Cultures are used interchangeably,
No?
Culture is Borca, Franka, Pollen, Hybrispania, Purgare, Balkhan, Africa.
Africa's problem is that it's integrated into the setting, it's just done badly.
And yeah, I can ignore things, but it's really awkward to do so. That's one of the reasons I hate games with metaplots or secret hidden "we'll reveal the secrets later" plots.
>>44444662
>>44444748
Gun control nothing. Every country has an army, pretty much any country allows hunting rifles, and gun control goes out the window after the apocalypse. If people in Europe can make trailblazers, they can make anything. Making guns isn't all that difficult, and "we don't understand technology at all" will always be a really bad way of doing things. Especially in an era where we write shit like instruction manuals all the damned time.
All it takes is one guy building a gun making machine and you've got a gun industry back up. And like I said, people were able to make gun making machines in the Old West.
>>44444748
>>44444827
This is 500 years after the end of the world. Plenty of time for people to find out how to make bullets. The only thing people should be trading like currency is currency.
>>44444995
You know what gets you food and shelter?
A fucking gun.
Do you think guns flourished in the American Frontier because people wanted to shoot each other? Shooting deaths in the Wild West barely happened. It was probably safer to live in the old west than New York or even Tokyo. People wanted guns to protect themselves from the bandits and raiders (which is common in post-apoc) as well as to hunt food.
>>44445097
>So, where to start? There are no factories making standardised metal parts any more.
The fact that Degenesis has no manufacturies 500 years after things went tits up is one of my biggest problems with it.
Unless your main problems ended literally yesterday, it won't take that long to rebuild.
>>44445097
and dont forget likely the Cults are going to want these guns as they're a threat to their power structures.
>>44445144
The Cults are the ones likely to be MAKING guns!
>>44445135
except they do have manufactories just, like so many things in Degenesis they're jealously guarded by those in power. How hard is that to understand? Hell the judges have a whole tribe they basically yanked out of the ground and carried back to Justitian for this very purpose.
>>44445166
They are, they're called Hellvectics and no, you're not allowed their guns. I'm not saying there isn't firearms, but ammo is scarce, information on making them is held tight to the chest by anybody around and unless you go to africa and pick up an Ak you're going to need to track down a craftsmen to get something halfway decent. Hell Scrappers are shown to have plenty of guns, as are Woodpeckers and several other ranks in the various cults. They're not that uncommon but clanners being clanners aren't always likely to have them.
>>44445097
we have had 500 years for people to get this shit going. I'm not saying everyone should have machine guns but guns should be in the hands of pretty much every professional adventurer and soldier. I mean proper ones with internal magazines that can be removed and loaded with a clip. Scopes too if you have a decent source of glass and some equipment for shaping it. 500 years is a long damn time, even with a nuclear winter on, all the long lived clans and families should have guns, if not as eschaton loot than as stuff they bought from a gunsmith at some point.
>>44445144
dissent is probably a bigger threat to their power structure. The Cults are the only groups with the infrastructure to supply gun smiths and chemists with the needed resources.
>>44445125
no problem, if nothing else assume your clanners and raiders have breech loaders and revolvers which have the advantage of using filthy, filthy black powder propellant without having to worry about being maintained as you can generally treat those guns like shit without much in the way of consequences. (well the simpler models anyway) Make semiautomatic and automatic weapons mid to high tier loot, single shot weapons and multibarrel guns would probably be fairly common among low tech types.
>>44445135
>The fact that Degenesis has no manufacturies 500 years after things went tits up is one of my biggest problems with it.
>Unless your main problems ended literally yesterday, it won't take that long to rebuild.
I don't know about that. Technology needs a progression. And when all you've known is the future, the past might be hard to grasp. I mean think about it. We're so used to modern amenities ourselves, if all you've ever known was an electric stove, it is going to take some time to learn to cook with fire.
Now imagine that instead of everything you know now. Because we know a lot thanks to just how easy it is to get information. And imagine if instead of the internet, there was unyielding frozen darkness for a century or two. Nobody remembers anything. Nobody has seen any of this stuff first hand, second, or third.
So you have to relearn everything from scratch, and it took a lot more than 300 years (as an example, could be the whole 500 when it comes to firearms) to learn that stuff the first time. Or as people have pointed out. You get really lucky. Find some old documents. Translate them, decode the images to figure out what they mean (likely without understanding any of the fundamentals involved), and with a little trial and error you figure something out. That's a treasure.
Sure hey maybe you find an old gun. Does it work? Do you know how to fix it if it doesn't? Without any additional information would you learn a thing from a broken one? Do you even understand how a bullet accelerates. I mean it looks like there is a powder. If that powder fowled would you ever think it burned? Do you just go around burning powder? If you put something next to it, it doesn't move.
>>44445135
Some parts of Europe are advanced enough to make trailblazers (basically only Helvetica but its still a part of Europe), others are barely out of the stone age. Technology levels are not uniform, the game even has tables to identify that
As for Cults and Culture, your post seemed to be treating them interchangeably, where I thought you were talking about how Europe is divided into the Clan origins of Borca, Pollen, Purgare, Franka, Hybrispania and Balkhan, while Africa is just the one generic Clan
And the secret metaplot is just a hook to hang your own plans on if you want to use them. If you don't, then its completely fine as most people are never going to know about Recombination Group, their plans or what the Sleepers are up to. Beyond "Gertrell had some crazy, multi generational plan to make himself a God-king using sociology" a lot of the meta plot is unwritten to allow GM's to fill in the blanks
Clanners get a simple gun at chargen if their clan is Tech 3 or greater
>>44445229
Well, actually, its been more like 300 or so. I know, not a huge difference but the fact remains a lot of nations rode out the apocalyptic impact pretty well, it was the wave of related disasters that followed that plunged humanity into a literal dark age as the nuclear winter started to kick in. Like >>44445370 says, outside of a few techno-fetishist groups like the Chroniclers keeping the Stream alive, most people have at best legendary accountants of the pre-impact days of humanity, twisted beyond all recognition into a mythical golden age
As for guns, there are stats for all sorts of things like hunting rifles, pump action shotguns and revolvers, all happily within the tech level of various factions to have built themselves
>>44445135
>Unless your main problems ended literally yesterday, it won't take that long to rebuild.
Ah, I think I see where the main contentious point is here. The thing is, the apocalypse in Degenesis is not like the apocalypse in, say, Fallout. In Fallout, as well as many other post-apoc settings, the apocalypse is more or less one singular event, and afterwards people then just have to deal with the aftermath. Things are rough, but the outside pressures and threats that people have to deal with remain more or less constant or are slowly receding.
In Degenesis on the other hand, the apocalypse is to all intents and purposes still ongoing. The asteroid impacts were just the start, and taken on their own not even the most destructive thing that happened. In the 500 years since, things continued to get steadily worse, and still do. Sepsis kept spreading, Degenesis kept multiplying, ice border kept going south, wilderness kept becoming more mutated and dangerous. In Europe, the pressure is steadily growing, and usually at a faster pace than humans can recover.
Or to use an analogy, the first version of post-apocalypse is like getting into a big old car crash, breaking several bones and sustaining other major injuries. You're terribly fucked up, but once you're out of immediate danger, you're more or less on the safe side and your condition will generally continue to improve little by little.
The second version of post-apoc that Degenesis subscribes to is more like contracting a motherlode of cancer throughout your whole body. Sure, with the right medicines you can hold on for a while. There might even be times where you feel like you're improving and things are getting better, at least temporarily. But inside you the cancer keeps growing faster than you can destroy it, and unless there's a downright miraculous recovery in the long term it's still a long, inescapeable decline that has only one possible outcome.
>>44445211
We're talking machinery, not fucking silkworms. You literally only need *A* bullet to figure out how bullets work
>>44445370
Not really. Plenty of people figure out how to do the backwards work. Hell, everyone with a modern stove still understands fire. Making fire is hard, but all it takes is one person to explain it and suddenly everyone knows how. That's how the human species works.
You're also forgetting the one thing we have now that they didn't have during the Fall of Rome (aside from more infrastructure).
We write shit down. Constantly. More words are written today than ever before, and we don't just use oral tradition to explain how shit works, we write it down. If we made Greek Fire today, every cannister of Greek Fire would have information on what's in it.
The world of Degenesis should only look the way that it does if everyone completely forgets how to read, and everyone is unable to figure out how to translate--and people were translating things a thousand years ago.
>>44445446
>>44445445
I'm aware of all of that. If anything, Degenesis' slow apocalypse makes it even more baffling that the world is as dirt farmer as it is.
>>44445486
in fairness the setting coughs and says "B-but illiteracy!" which is sorta...bullshit really. all these tribal cultures are descended from very literate societies. Even the African ones.
Everyone writes shit shit down, we've known the twelve herbs and spices for generations because, no surprise, someone wrote that shit down. I can see some people in super isolated groups not learning to read but anyone with an interest in treasure (I.E. PCs) should by default know how to write and read their native language (assuming "illiterate barbarian" isn't their character concept)
>>44445486
Ahh but how many people with the minds to explain that kind of shit would be left? Writing things down alone isn't a cure all. Look at English written 500 years ago.
How many people are going to come out of that winter literate, let alone with a degree in linguistics or anthropology. And yes, everyone with a modern stove understands fire. It's been 5 generations since your family has known what a stove was. Tell me how it works.
I've an anecdote for you. Back when i was in highschool. I took a class called physics. Now I know you know what physics is, probably have a decent handling on the core concepts. Not a single member of my immediate family had any idea what it was.
Now I tried to explain. And really the best i got drilled into to was "why does gravity, because math is different then how you remember it". Now they all know what gravity is. My father evem mentioned newton and the apple when asked. But not one of them had even the slightest inkling of how it worked, the math was entirely foreign to them, as was why it was there to begin with conceptually (both the math, and the gravity).
And you know what, they're all reasonably intelligent people who went to school (not many college grads mind you, but still). Now imagine if they didn't go to school, hell the very concept is a thing of legends. They thought their great great grandparents went to school. There were desks, and in the front a person told you even more wonderful stories. And you never went hungry there, and and and and, etc.
>>44445723
and lets not forget how information is being stored. There is terabytes of data online now, so much so that some of it probably has never seen print. Now imagine life with an always online enviroment like the Stream. printed press and indeed probably hard copies were relegated to curios by the time of Eschaton. Tons of inforation was likely simple wiped out when the stream went down. No doubt there are likely places and people that prepped but those are few and far between and the stuff the PCs are after,
>>44445723
Also just to add to this a little. The reason technology improves so rapidly now is because so many people can read, and share ideas, thanks to our mass communications capability.
Say you come out of the winter. You're a lucky one. You can read, share ideas. But only with people you physically meet. And share a common language with. And also had access to physical reading materials. Because it doesn't matter how many books are on that tablet if the screen is cracked and it hasn't had any battery power for the last 80 years.
You >>44446003
Hey man, I was getting to that. Had to do laundry.
But yeah. How easy is it to teach someone to read and write when you have no access to paper. Paper is fairly hard to make without machinery, and it is pretty fragile when left to the elements. And a tablet stylus isn't going to leave a mark on it if you do find any.
And as I was getting at, even if you do share your ideas in text. It takes a very long time to write a book by hand. The man hours producing vellum, making pigment into ink, and physically writing things out makes books expensive. Which means they require excess to make. If you need to tend to a field, or hunt to live, taking a few hundred to thousands of man hours to make a books is not a priority.
This discussion is ridiculous.
Our technology today is rapidly approaching the point of becoming Blackboxes. A person might now how to use it, maybe even understand some of its underlying principles, but cannot for the life of them understand them. Modern day technology relies on people with specialized forms of knowledge working with people with other forms of specialized knowledge in order to make a working design.
And to actually create that item you'd need everything from raw resources, to advanced fabrication techniques and more people with specialized knowledge. (Not even touching the need for advanced tools.)
Human Society as it exists today is a massive spiders web,it's a grand and beautiful design and interconnected ness, but it posesses numerous points of failure.
>>44445486
>If we made Greek Fire today, every cannister of Greek Fire would have information on what's in it.
Go look at a picture of a bomb casing. Note the lack of instructions on how to make Tritonal on it.
There are a shitload of things which aren't well documented in modern society. Really, most things which aren't food don't say a lot. It's easy to find out that kind of thing on the internet, but the pre-eschaton internet isn't as useful as the present day one.
The Stream had divorced itself from reality before the eschaton, which was one of the causes of the cults. Finding accurate or true information became a lot harder, and naturally, more and more stuff was stored digitally than in the present day.
Then the 2^16 phenomenon wrecked that archive of information. So if you want to look through it to find something, it's a minefield of bullshit which is now much harder to verify, damaged archives from 2^16, and probably some RG memes designed to control what you think. It's not impossible to find good information, but it is really hard, and the Chroniclers have been gaining a monopoly over that art for a while.
Of course, guns aren't exactly that uncommon, they're just expensive or time consuming to keep running. The Hellvetics definitely made it.
>>44446109
Yeah, the big things are even harder. But also remember, there are robots and shit. I have had a ti 84 silver for over a decade. It takes a good deal of warming up and drudging through old memories for me to remember how to do math without it anymore.
And its a fucking relic even today. And these people have robots to do stuff for them. And these instructions. They're probably going to be written for robots to interpret.
Good luck reverse engineering machine code.
>>44446235
>Note the lack of instructions on how to make Tritonal on it.
This leads to another important point. In terms of technological advancement, it's rarely the core central concept of something that's the big hurdle. The devil is usually in the details. The concept of interchangeable breech-loaded cartridges for firearms had been known even in the early middle ages, revolver-style feed mechanisms since the early modern period. Yet despite their obvious advantages both concepts only became commonplace several centuries later, simply because metallurgy and precision engineering first had to get to the point where they could make applying those concepts practical. Each "major" invention rests on the back of hundreds tiny inventions and discoveries that you often don't even know about.
>>44445723
>Ahh but how many people with the minds to explain that kind of shit would be left?
Considering there are literal factions dedicated to it?
Yeah, the average English person won't understand Middle English. But you can damn sure bet someone can translate it. And as was mentioned before, this WASN'T one big "fuck you" style apocalypse, it was a lot of little events over a long period of time that added up. That's far more than enough time to keep that kind of knowledge safe and pass it on. We do that now, and we're not in danger of an apocalypse.
>I've an anecdote
The plural of which is not data.
>>44446109
The thing is yes, no one knows how their toaster works. But anyone can FIND OUT pretty easily.
>>44446235
>Go look at a picture of a bomb casing. Note the lack of instructions on how to make Tritonal on it.
Pretty sure bombs tend to come with instructions on storage, specifically so that people don't fuck up storing them. Shit, I've seen tear gas grenades with instruction and warning labels.
>>44446553
And unless all of the manufacturies--of literally some of the most important things post-apocalypse--are destroyed, why would that information be lost?
Like, we're talking gun here. If shit started going south and there were enough people to do ANYTHING, they'd start prepping and you'd have more guns than you know how to deal with. Really, the major problem is powering the machinery, but considering the Chroniclers and Bygone shit, I'm going to take a stab and say that they weren't using coal and oil that can degrade.
I'm not saying it wouldn't hiccup, I'm just saying that going from a Type 1 Civilization (or at least type .9) to Type 0 (or at least .3) with anything short of near complete extinction level event is kind of silly.
We're currently a Type .7 Civilization and we've already put measures in place to keep from ending up like the world of Degenesis.
>>44446875
I know how my toaster works, it works a lot like this crappy heater I have. Main issue is that I'm no electrician so I wouldn't try to fuck with it's internals but a toaster is a really simple piece of electronics. Only stumbling block is getting the metal for teh heating filaments right.
>>44446875
Yeah. You're right. And all of this happened in 20 minutes once the dust settled. People wondered out from under the ground. And before a seed was tilled (you see, everyone had access to the seed vaults and knew how to farm this new hospitable world like the back of their hands, thanks to Wikipedia and the instilled genetic knowledge of crop rotation). Before civilization was given a chance to start a new. People suddenly remembered everything, like the apocalypse didn't just completely destroy civilization.
