Would you consider Western Europe in the 500s/600s/700s a post-apocalyptic setting?
>>44094818
No.
>>44094818
Europe isn't the entire world. Shocking, I know but true.
I'd call it an early medieval setting.
>>44094854
>question about Europe
>BUT WHAT ABOUT THE REST OF THE WORLD
>>44094854
OP said "western europe", not "the world".
>>44094818
In a sense, yes, but in most ways its simply after a collapse. That happens all the time.
>>44094818
No, that's just an ampire splitting up into pieces, but Europe after the Black Death, now...
>>44094818
No, because it wasn't. Rome didn't explode out of nowhere, it'd been declining for a while already. Near the end it was a miserable place to live and the fall changed little. For most people, the major difference would be that their local ruler was now some Germanic warlord instead of a Roman official. Kind of a sucky period, but not the end time by any means.
>>44094818
Only if i was an ignorant retard who had not studied the history in question
>>44094818
Yes, but only partially. I haven't read the relevant literature, but there must have been some sense of loss regarding how many Romans were either forced out of their decorated cities (no food there), or who stayed but realized that they could no longer accomplish such great feats. Barbarian migrations (not invasions) tend to be seen as some civilization-destroying apocalyptic event, but those Germanic tribes adopted the local language and customs and integrated within a generation or two. Odoacer, a Germanic man, even tried to ocntinue the institutions of the empire as best he could as the King of Italy.
If you wanted to run a post-apocalyptic setting, consider looking up a group of former Romans who did actually experience extreme hardship or faced extinction. I believe Londinium or the Spanish territories might fit.
>>44094818
In the same way I find Europe in the 1900s post apocalyptic.
>>44094854
Guys, you're eurocentric racists for not talking about the rest of the world in question about Europe!
>>44095028
Fuck off, Eurocentrism is the correct way of looking at history given its absolute dominance of cultural, economic, and societal trends for the past 500 years.
>>44094818
>some houses went into disrepair and suddenly it's postapo
Is every place with a brownfield postapo according to OP?
>>44094818
>no stop-sign shields = not post-apocalypticin before, during, and likely after some autismo thinks anyone in this thread is to be taken seriously, or is taking OP seriously
>>44095089
Not anymore! We're now entering a brown globalist age where culture is eradicated to fit the narrative.
>>44095130
Even if that shit does happen (tfw not European), it won't change the fact that almost all forms of economic, social, and government organization are European in origin. Capitalism? Western. Communism? Western. Democracy, fascism, corporations, patent law, venture capitalism, contemporary understanding of marriage as a social contract with the state, it's all Western.
>>44095017
I imagine that playing as a group of legionnaires stuck in one of the outer provinces of the roman empire during its collapse would be pretty cool, especially considering that the romans pretty much shat on everyone they met, alot of people might be looking for a quick dose of revenge.
Greece and the Near East at the end of the Bronze Age sure was.
Bloody sea peoples.
>>44094818
Also, go to Londinium#5th_century on wikipedia for a possibly good setting.
>>44094818
No, you retard. For your average Joe Schmo, life probably would not have been much different, other than a particular bad plague here, a change in rulers or a war. Oh wait, that's literally how things were for most of the premodern era
>>44095564
Read the thread. While most of the Roman empire would have experienced a slow, gradual decline as you describe, unnoticed by individual generations, some parts of the empire did collapse catastrophically and would be suitable.
>>44094991
40-60% mortality rates, I'll second this for a world in the process of falling apart and nothing anyone can do to help it. There's an apocalyptic feeling in many of the contemporaneous writings. Fall of Rome, no, for most people if would have been a case of switiching a local warlord for an Imperial commander and that would've been about it as far as it went.
>>44094818
If you want a real apocalyptic historical setting, I'd go for the Crisis of the Third Century. By the time Roman really falls, most of Europe has already transitioned culturally into the the medieval period.
>>44095416
>sjw getting triggerd when "he" gets called out on "his" bullshit
>>44094854
>Caring about niggers, proto-beaners, and gooks
>>44095089
Okay, the comments pointing out the stupidity of bringing in the rest of the world when talking about Europe (though an argument can be made for the relevance of M.E. and North Africa) are justified, but don't be dumb. IRL Europe isn't the only thing that matters.
>>44095089
>cultural, economic, and societal trends for the past 500 years.
Look at these Eurofags trying to take credit for the US in the last 100 years.
>>44096118
>IRL Europe isn't the only thing that matters.
Correct
>>44096143
Yeah, but get ready for all the butthurt Europeans telling you about how all the things that make America great are just European.
>>44096159
The only European things I respect are Spain's organ donation program, and Switizerland's democratic process.
>>44096191
>Defending your own territory and citizens is imperialistic
What retard wrote this?
>>44096264
There's nothing wrong with Imperialism, britanon. There's no shame in admitting it.
>>44096264
>Defending your own territory and citizens is imperialistic
It's mostly the fact that those islands were acquired under the ideals of British Imperialism, which was about territorial expansion and subjugation of other regions to the homeland, and the Falklands were the British defending what are arguably useless islands halfway across the world under the same pretext.
Not exactly a comparison in the comic, but it does bring up the point that Europeans like to conveniently "forget" that most of the worlds current conflicts are the direct result of European Imperialism and its subsequent collapse (and the Middle East is pretty much entirely Britains fault).
>>44096191
That picture is so full of hypocrisy it's not even funny.
Not to mention >muh argument comic
>>44096118
>>44095089
You can envision history as centered around Europe from Renaissance to industrial revolution. Before that nobody have enough influence on world's history to earn a "central" place, and after that the US works to earn the spotlight until WWI. They then have to share it with Russia and only when CCCP falls they get to be the kings of the world, and still are nowadays (every time something of big enough consequences happens, they are amongst the first to react and everybody takes them in account) , although China is a serious competitor.
That's the way I've been told it works, as an European social-science student.
It's debatable, but sounds pretty solid to me.
>>44096355
Well, European Imperialism was good overall (it created America for one thing), but the timing of its collapse and European withdrawal was absolutely horrible for colonized areas.
>>44096355
Heriditary guilt is a thing, now? So I guess the US is going to dissolve itself and give all their territory the remaining few native Americans?
No?
Then stop bitching about muh Euro history, burgerfats.
>>44096401
At least Americans are honest about it :^)
>2015
>letting a single nation be equivalent to your entire continent in GDP
>>44096355
>Middle East is pretty much entirely Britains fault
Who the fuck gave weapons to religious fanatics to fight USSR?
>>44096472
>Who the fuck gave weapons to religious fanatics to fight USSR?
Shlomo Shekelstein
>>44096355
The people who live there are british and want to remain as such, there's no natives we kicked out or genocide'd in a break from tradition, and Argentina's only claim to it is that it's near them - which is a poor excuse for territorial gain, just ask the Irish.Considering them losing the Falklands War led to the end of the cruel and tyrannical Galtieri regime and the Proceso de Reorganización Nacional and therefore Argentina becoming a stable country again, you'd think the Argentinians would be a bit grateful for us beating them.
>>44096592
>you'd think the Argentinians would be a bit grateful for us beating them.Blacks are incapable of rational or abstract thought, just so you know
>>44096436
>Heriditary guilt is a thing, now?
Except it's not even hereditary. The power and wealth Europe has amassed that has allowed it to have such a stable and wealthy society has been in living memory plundered directly from lesser nations and brought back with unfavorable practices that have to this day screwed over those nations. This isn't even a "Your actions are bad and you should feel bad," it's "Those with glass houses should not be throwing stones, especially when their glass house is a palace filled with treasures from across the world."
It's the lack of self-awareness that bothers us, and the refusal to accept that MAYBE a lot of these problems might have had a little something to do with their government practices and policies that were enacted within living memory.
>>44096420
>Well, European Imperialism was good overall (it created America for one thing)
America exists in spite of European colonialism. If European colonialism had gone according to plan, America would have been a subservient nation to the Commonwealth and quite likely nowhere near as powerful as it is today. Pretty much every nation in the Western Hemisphere (bar Canada) was exploited under European colonialism.
Asia, Africa, and South America would also like to have a word with you about "good overall."
>>44096472
Who the fuck created a whole bunch of arbitrary borders that didn't reflect any of the ethnic identities of the region and then up and left without attempting to fix it, dooming those nations to be constantly riven with internal conflict because they have no form of identity, THEN just plopped an entire ethnic group into the most holy and contested part of the region and evicted the previous residents and told everybody else to "deal with it," despite pretty much every other nation (including the US) saying, "This is a bad idea."
That would be you.
>>44096648
>If European colonialism had gone according to plan
If European colonialism hadn't happened at all, America wouldn't exist.
>Asia, Africa, and South America would also like to have a word with you about "good overall."
>Asia
I don't know, Japan got a pretty good deal out of it, and it's China's fault that they got addicted to drugs.
>Africa
The situation in Africa is shitty, yes, but if the colonies lasted for a big longer and finished "civilizing" the Africans, we wouldn't have this big problem. As it stands now, Europe should either have not bothered with Africa at all, or stayed there until they Africans were ready to live civilized lives to western standards. Fuck the Belgians though.
>South America
A shame, but what do you expect from Spanish murderhobos?
>>44096710
>japan
>affected by european colonialism
why the fuck are you even in this argument if you don't know literally anything
>>44096743
>what are the Dutch
>implying Japan not being colonized has anything to them with them not being affected by colonization overall
>>44096355
And the only claim of any kind Argentina has is due to Spanish imperialism, what is your point?
The British still owned it before Argentina even existed and British people live there.
>>44096710
>If European colonialism hadn't happened at all, America wouldn't exist.
And if the Holocaust hadn't happened, we wouldn't have as thorough an understanding on hypothermia and its effects on the human body.
>Japan got a pretty good deal out of it, and it's China's fault that they got addicted to drugs.
You mean the drugs you pushed onto them all the time and spiked them with, then demanded that you get free cities so that they could continue getting their drugs you kept selling them?
Japan also was a result of American military action, and even then America only asked that they be allowed to conduct business and refuel/repair their ships in Japanese ports. American "imperialism" wasn't imperialism, as it was never about the acquisition of territory.
>The situation in Africa is shitty, yes, but if the colonies lasted for a big longer and finished "civilizing" the Africans, we wouldn't have this big problem.
That doesn't absolve you of blame.
>>44096812
>And if the Holocaust hadn't happened, we wouldn't have as thorough an understanding on hypothermia and its effects on the human body.
America is arguably a greater good than Nazi medical science; Von Braun was a good part of the deal too though.
>you mean the drugs you
>you of blame
m8, I'm American. I have a feeling one of us accidentally switch sides halfway through the argument.
>>44096710
People seem to be forgetting what would have happened to Africa if Europe had stayed out, hell they seem to forget the Arab slavers existed at all.
>>44096857
>what would have happened to Africa if Europe had stayed out
They would have continued being semi-civilized savages that would have barely reached the iron age well into the 20th century?
>>44096648
>>44096710
You're both talking bollocks.
You're both making good points.
Colonisation did some good things, it did some god damn terrible things. Britain isn't entirely responsible for the Middle East, France had a hand in the border creating. Britain also fought that entire ethnic group for a while but the US like it still does wanted to protect them and told us to cut it out.
Britain had better relations with the Native Americans than the US government did, probably because large numbers of the Native Americans fought for Britain in the War of Independence.
Belgium were by far the worst colonial power. Portugal were pretty shitty because they didn't want to give it up at all... ever.
Britain does still hold some overseas territories. Almost all of them entirely happy to remain British (one guy did vote to join Argentina in the Falklands Election)
We made China buy our drugs so Britain could have tea. Don't try to blame China for that. Japan was happy keeping to themselves it was the US that forced the doors open.
Africa... well... yeah that is one huge screw up. No one comes out of Africa with their heads held high even Liberia (an American colony of sorts) has had big problems.
And the EU are full of their own self importance. Half the countries argue with each other, the other half are only in it for what they can get out of it. The Euro has tanked, the migration crisis has the entire Eurozone fraying at the seams and Britain will probably leave it when the vote comes around.
Now stop arguing about things even our grandparents had no hand in and recognise that Europe and the US are not only allies but that we share the same ideals.
Freedom, justice and a desire to not get killed because we're the wrong colour or religion or just from the wrong tribe.
>>44094854
Nor was it even implied PC principal.
>>44096891
The Arab slave traders would have kept giving guns to tribes that sold them slaves, exporting millions of Africans and massacring random villages. So the continent would probably be even more shitty and unstable.
For some reason people ignore the huge Arab slave trade.
>>44096812
Er... America has been Imperialist, just ask Hawaii.
>>44096710
>China's fault they got addicted
Oh yeah, Brittan totally didn't supply opiates in unprecedented quantities to the Chinese government to undermine their authority in an attempt to set up a puppet government.
Oh, wait.
>>44096967
>Europe and the US are not only allies but that we share the same ideals.
I'm sorry, but giving my house and wife to violent sandmonkeys isn't an American ideal.
>>44097017
>implying I wasn't being sarcastic
>>44096967
Technically the Congo Free State was not even Belgian, it belonged to Leopold personally.
>>44096967
>Britain had better relations with the Native Americans than the US government did, probably because large numbers of the Native Americans fought for Britain in the War of Independence.
No. Just no.
Britain had Native Americans fighting for them in the War of Independence because Britain's "If we win" deal was better for most of the tribes.
>>44097023
Yeah because that happens in any country all the time... Oh wait no never happens.
So much for the American dream...
Another fantastic /tg/ related thread
>>44097103
>...
stop
>what is Germany
Fer fucks sake. EVERY NATION WITH A MILITARY AND AN AGE OVER 100 YEARS HAS BEEN IMPERIALISTIC AT ONE POINT.
Why are we even arguing about this? WHAT are we even arguing?
>>44097083
Technically so but it was still Belgian Soldiers and officials acting on Leopold's orders.
>>44097102
Didn't say the relations were awesome between Britain and the American Tribes I said better. Can't think of many occasions when the winner of a war has been nice to the loser (WW2 is the real major stand out to be honest. Respect to the US for pushing for rebuilding rather than Versaille 2)
>>44097135
Would you be refering to the rather open border policy Merkel allowed? If so yeah still didn't evict people from their homes and hand over their wives to allow the refugees in. People opened their homes to people coming in, entirely different.
>>44097182
>Would you be refering to the rather open border policy Merkel allowed?
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>>44097139
Which soon-to-be-under-Sharia-Law shithole is better.
>>44095355
Seriously fuck the Sea People
Show up out of fucking nowhere, ruin all the good shit going on then fuck right off. Weren't even courtious enough to leave us anything we could use to learn about them
>>44094994
>Kind of a sucky period, but not the end time by any means.
It would be sucksville if you were one of the few Romans living in Germanic occupied lands. You're one of the last beacons of civilization in a world that's slowly dying, with all culture and progress being trampled underfoot by foreign barbarians who have simply outbred the local population and refused to adapt to a clearly superior culture.
A bit like Sweden a few decades from now.
>>44097193
Kek. You're a bit behind, aren't you?
http://www.thelocal.de/20151209/germany-officially-crosses-1m-refugees-mark
The official numbers have already reached 1 million. Who knows how far that will grow until the end of december? Christmas is coming up soon so I predict the Germans will start feeling particularly generous with their tax money and the virginity of their daughters.
Why is a thread about the dark ages filled with retards spurting /pol/ memes?
Are we being raided?
>>44097827
>Why are people from one board posting on another board
In case you hadn't noticed, we have people from /a/, /co/ and /d/ posting here as well.
If you want a safe space where you're never confronted with triggering opinions, 4chan isn't your speed. Try tumblr.
>>44097182
>Respect to the US for pushing for rebuilding rather than Versaille 2
>He actually believes that VersailleS was so cruel the Germans had no choice but to invade Poland
>He literally believes Hitler's fabrication
The problem with Versailles was that it wasn't harsh enough. The Germans would never accept a white peace, just look at how popular the stab in the back myth was despite Versailles' downright fucking generous treatment of Germany.
We should've listened to Ferdinand Foch: no end of the war until Berlin is occupied (shattering the stab in the back myth) and a complete dismantling of Germany.
You know what Foch said when he saw the Versailles Treaty? Not "This is too cruel ;_;" but, "this isn't a peace, it's an armistice for 20 years". He was off by about 70 days in this prediction.
>>44098066
Your stupidity would be entertaining if it wasn't so fucking cringeworthy.
>>44098179
Here's your reply
>>44098179
(you)
>>44098066
>Germans
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ztOV2wrrkY
>>44097827
>Are we being raided?
Maybe: >>44096651
>>44094818
Given that there was no apocalypse around that time, no, I wouldn't.
>>44094854
People already called you a retard but but I'll do it as well for good measure.
>hey guys what about this era in europe long ago?
>europe isn't the only place in the world!
>europe is best!
>no, america is best!
>muslims! interracial sex!
This is why the containment boards exist, people.
>Americans bitching about imperialism
>Shitskins bitching that nobody takes them serious
>Muh /pol/
>Muh tumblers
But where's the tabletop games
>>44098512
>But where's the tabletop games
>Implying Risk isn't a game about white patriarchal shitlords oppressing PoC
>>44098539
Are we talking about Risk right now?
>>44098550
No, but maybe someone will fall for his shitty troll.
Hello guys! I've come from /pol/ to tell you some things you JUST HAVE TO KNOW about muslims and jews and what not.
I'm gonna use words like nigger and gook. And I'm gonna talk about immigrants stealing all our toilet cleaning jobs. Do you want a toilet cleaned according to sharia law? I don't think so.
You will find my posts pathetic and meaningless and ask me to head back to /pol/. I will then pretend that you only say that because you are SJWs from tumblr who JUST LOVE the shitskins. =)
>>44098606
Ironic shitposting is still shitposting.
>All this whining about shitposting is derailing the thread even harder than the actual shitposting
>>44098665
Just like your body's inflammatory response might do more harm than the infection which caused it.
/pol/ is the plague and SJWs are the cholera.
>>44097716
>A bit like Sweden now.
Fixed that for you
>>44094818
No.
As much as everyone likes to worship Rome, to everyone not on the Italian peninsula it wasn't nearly the end of the world.
>>44098773
>meanwhile, in the real world
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-11-30/sweden-s-economy-grew-twice-as-fast-as-estimated-last-quarter
Sure is apocalyptic up there.
muh rule britannia
>>44098823
Meanwhile, one year and one month from now...
http://www.breitbart.com/london/2015/12/09/migrants-to-make-up-6-in-10-of-swedens-unemployed-by-2017/
You know what's the last thing a continent struggling with record unemployment needs? More unemployed people. Especially more unemployed people with little to no marketable skills and questionable loyalties.
>>44099015
>breitbart
anyway. I don't know if you /pol/ guys follow real world news (or if you even care about it)
But are you at all aware of the recent changes to Sweden's border policies?
I'm asking out of pure curiosity.
>>44099049
>breitbart
http://www.thelocal.se/20151209/six-in-ten-foreign-residents-will-be-jobless-by-2017
Is The Local progressive enough for you?
>But are you at all aware of the recent changes to Sweden's border policies?
Too little too late. Proportional to its population size, Sweden has already taken in the most "refugees" out of all European countries.
>>44099087
Swedish economy is built up in a way that makes unemployment trickle down on immigrants. That is quite well known. As you can read the overall unemployment rate is expected to go down and the economy is healthy.
>Too little too late
During the last few weeks the inflow has been halved and the government says further "significant reduction" is needed and they will do what it takes.
How will you over at /pol/ react to this? Will you finally accept reality and abandon the anti-swedish propaganda campaign you've had going for years? Or will you just keep going because it's fun?
>>44099211
>How will you over at /pol/ react to this? Will you finally accept reality and abandon the anti-swedish propaganda campaign you've had going for years?
The jokes write themselves. Don't you remember one of your politicians literally cried on public television when this was announced?
>>44099433
Theatre. Who cares?
>>44099433
The fuck does one person crying have to do with anything?
>>44099211
>Or will you just keep going because it's fun?
This, just like mocking Ben Garrison or jews.
And then idiots who actually believe it will get suckered into thinking they're in good company. Like that mark twain quote.
>>44099698
Ah, moot, you were the best.
>>44094818
imagine if a large area of your country suffered a major collapse the population suffered severe decline the amount of goods coming out of there are severely reduced
infrastructure crumbled literacy dropped and hygiene is terrible that's the dark ages western Europe 500s/600s/700s
