>Rules databases
https://mega.co.nz/#F!pFgm0RKR!J06C1gVYcjzNGsF8YNLsjQ
https://kat.cr/warhammer-40k-pdf-library-t9575373.html
>FAQs
http://www.blacklibrary.com/faqs-and-errata.html
>40k 7th edition quick reference sheet(s)
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4104995/Games/7edRef_V6.pdf
>Forgeworld Book index
http://www.dakkadakka.com/wiki/en/Forge_World_and_Apocalypse_Rules_Index
![Ork_Nobs_Charge[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/n88yUaI.jpg "Ork_Nobs_Charge[1].jpg")
>>43945082
Dis fred now belongs to da orkZ
>>43945099
Roight and propa!
>>43945099
>not with I2 it doesn't
>:^)
Do we have a full scan of IA11 yet?
I know the pictures are floating around, but its missing the SW stuff and the non-corsair eldar stuff
>>43945082
Right does anybody have Irylith and the formation unique to them saved?
I know what they both do but it would be handy just to have them on hand.
And I don't want to go trawling through the archive for two images.
![greenalgae1[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/mtV4j2v.jpg "greenalgae1[1].jpg")
>>43945126
Dats why wez got so man of uz day boyz. We might be slow, be we hit da hardest. and da mostest.
>>43945160
I mainly just wish Orks hit a middle ground between Nid stabbiness and Cron unkillyness. Seems to me that's the proppa way to do a race of footballers.
>>43945160
I never saw the i2 of orks being slow but because they're disorganized.
In your opinion, oh singular-consciousness that is /tg/, what codex is most evenly matched against MechVet Guard?
I'm starting an OPFOR army to teach my friends (and my son, eventually) to play and I'd like them to have a fairly evenly tiered army.
>>43945266
Eldar using 3 wraithknights with waveserpent and dire avenger support is right about that power level.
>>43945296
>avengers
>not scatterbikes
>>43945296
>waveserpents
What is this 6th edition?
>>43945099
You will not hold it for long xeno scum.
>>43945195
Initiative is the speed of the unit though.
>>43945266
Ignoring the faggots, pretty much anything would work. It's not as if you'll be hitting your friends with super-competitive lists, so let them play what looks cool to them.
>>43945359
Thanks for the response, and it's , but I was thinking along the lines of a second army to have on the shelf for demonstration purposes because this:
>Hey, play 40k, it's fun*!
>Cool, little war dollies, how much will it take to get started in the hobby and see if I like it?
>like, 350 bucks?
>...
*: "FUN!"
Is a tough sell, but selling the wife on getting more than one second army will be an even tougher one.
I was wondering, is it possible to use a storm shield during the beginning of the assault phase to ward off low AP weapon overwatch then switch to a bolt pistol and close combat weapon once in melee to get more attacks.
>>43945411
No. If you have a stormshield you can never get that extra attack for 2 CCWs.
>>43945410
Disregard wife, aquire warlord titan with built-in fleshlight. Beings you twice the pleasure with only a fraction of the financial strain.
>>43945266
Mechvet guard aren't as great as they once were unless you rely heavily on units like the vendetta and wyvern in multiples.
As long as it's relatively balanced CAD it should be fine. Play a few test games with proxies units to gauge the power level you want before committing
ok so i heard that 40k has a RPG but i do not know anything about it. I don't even know its name. what is it and is it awesome.
>>43945537
There's a bunch and yes.
>>43860091
>>43945537
It has a few. Rogue Trader, Deathwatch, Black Crusade, Only War and Dark Heresy to be exact.
There is a 40k rpg General that will answer any questions you have.
>>43945537
You might want to check out the 40k RPG Gen: >>43860091
Long story short, there's: Dark Heresy (PCs are =I= henchmen, there's two editions of which 2e is more streamlined and 1e has more content), Rogue Trader (PCs are fuckoff rich space traders in uncharted regions), Black Crusade (PCs are Chaos Spess Mehreens, expect thatguyism and justasplannedism), Deathwatch (PCs are Deathwatch Spess Mehreens), and Only War (PCs are Guardsmen, plz send guns and body bags).
>>43945082
Come up with a campaign idea that might be fun. Obscure chapters/warbands/Craftworlds/ Hive Fleets/dynasties/Kabals/Orders are welcome. Got to the wiki and pic one out that looks cool to you. Give the campaign idea a name, and list the factions duking it out.
The Dead Will Rise Again to Serve:
Word Bearers vs Necrons vs Tau vs IG
A graveyard world is targeted by Tau for their expansion, Word Bearers to desecrate, and turned out to be a Tomb World. The local regiment is sent to defend the final resting place of honored dead heroes, and is aided by the souls of the dead when one WB sorcerer fudged a ritual up. Ghost Commissars and living ones can still BLAM the ghosts of guardsmen.
>>43945309
Go fuck yourself powergamer, no one likes you anyway
>>43945266
If you want a true, balanced demo match for people to try the game, make it two mirrored forces. Makes the game easier to learn when they have the same guns and stats as the other side.
We can't tell you whats an even match for a guard list when you don't share the list.
Is it better to equip Tac Squads with Plasma Gun or Grav Gun? What works better against TEQs?
>>43945717
Grav. Grav is 90% better than plasma. Although neither is that great weapon for tac marines.
>>43945717
I've been in love with the gospel of Grav since its inception, but that's because I've had horrid luck with gets hot. Grav gets more shots at shorter ranges, same killy as a plasma gun vs. TEQ but also busts the unit in question to I1 (which they most likely will be already) and can do damage to AV13/14 better than a Plasma
>>43945359
>>43945481
Eh, I'll just build an ork force and run weaker guard lists. Orks are fun, the kid will like them.
>>43945724
>>43945748
Ahhh okay. Was wondering why the guy who replied to me here >>43941011 suggested so. Also is an Attack Bike Squad good accompaniment to a shooty Biker Captain that uses Primarch's Wrath relic bolter?
Which librarian would be easiest to put on a bike?
>>43945601
Orks, space marines and tyranids. Orks have conquered a space marine successor chapter's homeworld and wiped said chapter out. Basically Rynn's World but the orks won. The first founding chapter that the successor came from have come to the planet to retrieve relics and the store of gene-seed from the fortress monastery, although some relics (weapons mainly) are now trophies in the hands of orks. Meanwhile nids have been attracted by lots of biomass due to the sheer number of orks on the planet (as lots more piled in once word got round of a "well good fite" going on) and are coming. Space marines must get as many relics/as much geneseed off the planet as possible, and no matter what not let the nids get the geneseed. Tyranids win if they can get the geneseed and get the upper hand against the orks. Orks win if they can krump the other two good. Fisticuffs!
>>43945717
Flamers.
>>43945844
MM attack bikes are, but HBs would be out of place. They're long-range harassment platforms, and couldn't support your captain effectively.
>>43945872
Are Terminators as useless as everybody says, or is it just a /tg/ meme?
>>43945907
200 points for a tactical squad with 2+ saves.
alternatively, 200 points for a 1W, T4 assault unit that moves 6" a turn
Do either of these things sound useful to you?Chaos terminators are omitted. Cheaper cost and combi-weapons make them into somewhat viable suicide delivery systems
>>43945941
HALF a tactical squad*
sorry forgot a rather important word there
>>43945888
MM Bikes even if the Captain is using a beefed up Bolter of all things and I already have devastators with meltas, missiles, and grav cannons?
>>43945907
The other guy beat me to it. But yeah. Centurions>>>Terminators.
>>43945907
They aren't unplayable, but compared to the other units floating around they really aren't as tough or dangerous as they used to be. There are units capable of pumping out enough shots to quickly bring them down through sheer mass of saves, and there's a lot more AP2 weaponry floating about in general. They don't have enough attacks or a high enough WS to really make a huge impact in close combat and Tactical Terminators don't bring enough shots to work as a firebase.
Your list isn't going to become unplayable because you dropped 200 points into a squad just because you like the models, but they're nowhere near the powerhouses they used to be.
>>43945965
>Centurions>>>Terminators
>TFW Blood Angels player
>>43945954
Heavy bolters are more efficiently used on Land Speeders, should you really want them.
>>43945975
To add: They're really more than 200 points since you have to buy them a transport to assault out of which is another point sink. Or you could risk Deep Striking them and hope they can weather the fire, or you may lose them in the deep strike.
Once they're put somewhere they tend to be stuck there because of their high lack of mobility. "Fearless" terms aren't bad but you'll have to build an army around them if you really want to make them work, but they're so expensive and you'll really have a lack of bodies on the board.
But. As always. Rule of cool, you play what you think is the coolest. Don't let the internet dictate what is good.
Why don't instructions for 40k come with a map of all the pieces so I know what weapon is what?
I know all of you veterans can probably name off everything a model has but I am not as informed.
>>43945975
>give them their old stats back (BS6/WS5/I5)
>let them re-roll TDA (2+/5++) saves
>tacs get to double-tap if they stay still
>assaults get FC
>bump price up to 250 base (50 a body)
>chaos terminators (45 a body) get their marks and weapon options instead of the tac/assault buff
>sergeants/champs get a second wound
Bang, terminators fixed. Expensive as fuck, still 1W eggs-in-one-basket, but actually capable of doing some damage.
>>43946104
They are in every army codex.
>>43946104
Its just how Games workshop is guy. We all feel your pain. You'll just have to learn like the rest of us did, with time.
A lot more could be said about this, but after you're been playing a few years, you'll look back and say, "Wow. That random anon was right. Fuckin GeeDubs."
But you have to support the company if you enjoy the hobby. If they go out of business, there is no more products.
>inb4 GW complaining
>>43946042
I see. Alright then Imma equip the Bikes with MMs. Thanks!
>>43945978
I have decided that I'll give a hug to my opponent if he runs Blood Angels. Balls needed to run gimped Space Marines.
>>43946104
I learned by friends showing me.
If you don't have any friends who can do that, ask in GW to do a quick run through for you. They should do it if they are nice.
>>43946132
What if they were I4, but T5?
>>43946151
At 1250 I run an Attack Squadron with three Multimeltas and a double MM landspeeder and that crew is the Tankraper.
>>43946182
three multimelta Attack Bikes*
If i get seargent Thelion as the warlord he always has the Storm of Fire Warlord trait. That gives an unit 12" of him Rending on shooting attacks, SO:
Is it worth to grab a small unit of Devastators with heavy bolters to use that? That's about 100 points + thelion and for 12 rending shots it doesn't sound half bad.
>>43946203
It's pretty good. Just make sure they're in really good cover, or they'll get drowned in fire as soon as your opponent figures out that they have rending.
>>43945126
>i2
>still first to post in thread
stop being mad you suck at using orks
>>43945348
It's also reaction time
>Blind tests
>Rallying for a sweeping advance
>Not losing your shit and getting swept
>Closing on a Hit & Run before they flee cc
>Dazed or crippled after a power maul to the face/shoulder
We know Necron Lords and lychguard can execute elaborate parries and techniques, but humans can get the jump on them because of their mechanical half-death.
>>43946221
It's probably worth maxing the squad size for this exact reason. With no ablative wounds, every casualty is going to take a big chunk out of the unit's firepower. And with Rending, even a handful of Bolter shots at 24" can pose a threat.
>>43946182
Is armored ceramite not available in 40k? In my local HH meta melta is all but useless due to armored ceramite being taken on everything.
>>43946305
That is a really good point. Bolter meatshields are really not a bad idea for something like that.
>>43945948
175 points for HALF of a tactical squad with 2+ saves, and 2 attacks at S8AP2. 7e did buff them somewhat.
>>43946132
Or just make them toughness five, give them slightly better weapons and not do any of that insane stuff. Leave the price the same.
>>43946182
>>43946201
Nice! I am trying to run the Landspeeders in that army with Typhoon Missile Launchers since Landspeeders are for me too low on armor to pull close ranged Melta shenanigans so I am trying have them be fast paced heavy support. You should also try out Scout Squads with Combi-Melta Sargent with LandSpeeder Storm Dedicated transports that have MMs for seriously Tankraping
Suspend your disbelief for one second and have some fun.
Suppose GW commissions you to release Two Chaos codexes: One for Traitor Legion remnants, and one for Renegade Chapters. Think along the lines of CSM to Daemonkin, wherein both books will function seperate from each other.
Besides the staple units that would be present across both codexes, what unique gear does each side enjoy? Volkites and Land speeders? What unique abilities and gameplay styles would they have? Which units would be restricted to a single book? Would there be a case for fluffy new units or crunchy new roles?
>>43946321
Armored Ceramite is very rare in 40k only available on a few FW things. Melta kicks ass in 40k as a result, but with almost every armor mech having AC in 30k melta is pointless unless you run Salamanders.
>>43946221
>>43946337
>>43946305
Thanks. I'm deciding between Ultrasmurfs and Astra Militarum as my next army. This is going to be next year so it's still mindstorming and prone to change depending on the new codices arising but I'm exploring the possible gimmicks of the two armies.
>>43946305
You can always bring some cheap(er) bolter buddies to hang about with your big guns
>brother, I do not see the tactical advantage of being in this unit, the bolter I carry cannot penetrate the vehicles you're firing at and I feel like I'm just getting in the way at the front here
>brother please
Anyone get the new path to glory advent supplement for 50k? Is it worth it? Can we use it for normal 40k? ive heard that it's unbound, if so bah.....
>>43946348
>slightly better weapons
Salvo 2/4 Storm bolters and T5. Boom. Fixed.
>>43946132
Yeah, you are a retard. Protip. If a unit sucks increasing its cost to account for any improvement result only in a unit continuing to suck.
Remove the cost increase and instead you have something good.
>>43946391
Or just make them assault four.
What is people's obsession with salvo? It doesn't matter on a relentless model and only serves to punish those with non relentless models who are wielding them. Grey Knights for example.
Remember, Storm bolters were designed to let you charge after shooting. Salvo would stop that.
>>43946354
I run Dark Angels actually, I have the support squadron with three double bolter landspeeders and a Landspeeder Darkshroud.
I get a 24" Overwatch bubble on top of the Darkshroud giving Fear and Stealth and enemies cannot fire overwatch at friendly units with 6" of the Darkshroud.
>>43946379
this is why I play Raptors. Rending Bolters can still contribute to the Anti-vehicle shooting of my devastators.
> "Brother, I will do my best to aim at the soft spots of that vehicle. Perhaps if I button down the gunners sights, I can stun them temporarily!"
>>43946374
Traitor Legion will be similar to Grey Knights as in power level of the single model and number of models on the field. Obviously removing the space-magic of GK but adding some more versatility and cool rules for the various marks. They get the best gear and some important relics from a long time ago.
No cultists allowed, only special boyz club.
For the Renegade chapters something like Space Wolves, where there are some units filling the gap between cultists (scouts) and Big Boy Space marines. Maybe some kind of deviated geneseed or partially mutated space marines who went bonkers.
They shouldn't have a really good armory but for the relics it would be cool to have "stolen" or "raided" relics (at least in their fluffy descriptions)
>>43946374
Legion remnants get access to all the heresy era weaponry that is available in 40k.
Renegade chapters get access to stuff like Stormtalons, Centurions, grav-amps, etc.
>>43946414
As a SOB player, I'd like Assault 4 or Salvo 4 Storm Bolters.
It would give us a Special Weapon to combo with Heavy Bolters as a Heavy Weapon (Mind you, Heavy Bolters have their own issues as a weapon)
>>43946177
>>43946348
Turns them into shitty cents/oblits, rather than their own unique entity.
The armor save should be really fucking good, rather than just a wall of meat. It should be what separates tactical dreadnought armour from the knockoff garage-kit centurion/artificer armour.
Similarly, they're fucking veterans. The most veteran veterans. Dudes who by all rights should not be rocking basic tactical marine stats when you're paying thirty-five or more points a body.
Make them expensive as fuck, I don't care. Just make them terminators again.
>>43946414
>Stormbolters were designed to let you charge after shooting
Proofs please, since in the fluff (when they appear at all) they're described as heavy weapons with a punishing rate of fire. And I don't see how what amounts to two cut-down boltguns is usable as a one-handed assault weapon when a normal bolter is demonstrably not assault.
I'm not saying it should be Salvo 2/4 for Termies, I'm saying it should be Salvo 2/4 because it's otherwise a shitty weapon.
>>43946374
I would assume that Traitor Legion remnants would pretty much just be 30k stuff in 40k. As for (what I'm assuming to be) non-Chaos Renegades, pretty much just normal SM.
>>43946461
You want assault four, trust me. Salvo would never be worth it for you.
>>43946418
Don't Darkshrouds have Shrouded? Do they give the other landspeeders shrouded too or is it just stealth?
The formaton gets Grim Resolve which regular Landspeeders don't get...
So you get Stubburn,(unless jinking) count BS2 when firing overwatch and sinc ethey are all Ravenwing they can reroll fail jink saves...
It's been a while but I remember seeing an 1850 list with three of these squads and it was fucked.
>>43946414
>Remember, Storm bolters were designed to let you charge after shooting. Salvo would stop that.
So let the grey knights keep the crummy assault 2 storm bolters under a new name like "aegis storm bolters".
>>43946482
They are literally assault 2 bolters, piss off with the proofs crap.
I know exactly what you are saying. And I still disagree. If you want to make it salvo it punishes the like of Grey Knights and Sisters for no reason.
What's bad about assault 4? It's strictly better than salvo, salvo is a complete downside.
>>43946469
But there's no way to represent that. I agree, they should be like 55ppm Veterans on crack, because they are the absolute best of the chapter, but how do you reflect the quality of their armor when meltaguns are going to ignore it and instagib them anyway?
>>43946494
This, and it also reconciles the older fluff where Marines' bolt pistols were full-auto.
Stormbolters are designed for -Terminators- to charge after firing. Heavy and Salvo both still allow that.
Anyhow yes: Stormbolters are depressingly shitty for what's meant to be an impressive heavy assault weapon weilded by Terminators.
Also: I fucking hate the Artificer Armour/Iron Halo combo: It completely devalues Terminators by making it possible to be better than them in regular armour.
>>43946341
If you are talking about their I1 powerfists, that is NOT a boon unless you are dealing with shit that is either tough enough to need it or can splat a multi-wound unit.
>>43946414
Because salvo allows you to have cake and eat it. If you move, you dakka. If you don't move, you get BETTER dakka.
>>43946536
No, you move you get less with shorter range. That's what it's supposed to represent.
>>43946527
>but how do you reflect the quality of their armor when meltaguns are going to ignore it and instagib them anyway?
5++ with a re-roll is statistically better than a 50/50 chance, actually. Considering that's better odds than an iron-halo+artificer captain gets, I'd say it's fairly impressive.
>>43946522
What's bad is that it's a boltgun. A weapon that a fucking Space Marine needs time and skill to set up. And yet here's a weapon with twice the rate of fire (and therefore retarded amounts of recoil), yet a Scout Sergeant can fire it one-handed?
Fuck off.
As >>43946494 said: make a different kind of SB to be assault 2. Storm-pattern Bolt Pistols, I don't know. But normal SBs started life as a heavy Terminator weapon, and that is how they should stay.
>>43946493
>Don't Darkshrouds have Shrouded? Do they give the other landspeeders shrouded too or is it just stealth?
Both. Darkshroud have shroud and give stealth to the other Landspeeder. But by being the same unit all models get the combined effect of stealth + shrouded.
This is why I prefer Deathwing termies: They still can't take a proper shooty unit, sure, but at least you can stick the 1-in-5 Plasma Cannon in with your assault terminators and have all the unit members be good for something.
>>43946554
5++ is literal shit, and I don't know where your re-rolls are coming from. Yes, RR 5++ is mathematically similar to 3++. So, congrats, you deprecated Storm Shields.
>>43946374
Traitor Legion Remnants can go with New Marines, who are sorta anti-SOB. W/BS/I 3, T/S 4. These guys are cheap and expendable bastards in power armour.
They can also get Veterans of the Long War, who are all 2 wound very expensive infantry with some nice special abilities.
Traitor Legions shit demonic toys like crazy but make them technically wargear so you can have a nice list at the beginning of the book rather than listing a heap of special new rules for each unit.
Renegade chapters are the more standardized marine split and have better tech but have less access to weird stuff and daemonic toys. They get stuff like Storm Bolters and Centurions and new space marine vehicles...but don't have Cult troops (Though they can get a less awesome equivalent)
Renegade chapters get Cultists rather than scouts to help push them a bit away from just being a variant of the core marine codex. Give a little room for tailoring the leader of a cultist squad to represent different sorts of cultist.
>>43946484
Either would be an improvement but yeah, Assault 4 would be nice. I'd love to see a Machine Pistol version of the bolt pistol at some point. That would be fun.
>>43946613
Surely the storm shield invuln would be rerollable as well.
>>43946576
For what it's worth I agree with you. It's just the constant evolution of the gun has put it in a really weird place and GW doesn't know how to make a good terminator.
The weapon needs to be looked at.
Also power armour absorbs most of the recoil from weapons so they can fire it one handed. Just fyi.
Scout sergeant stuff takes a bit of believing though yeah.
>>43946613
>and I don't know where your re-rolls are coming from
from the proposed changes that sparked this entire comment tree
>So, congrats, you deprecated Storm Shields.
Great? With 2+ saves being shit, the 3++ completely invalidated every other option available to terminators.
Want Storm Shields to be valuable for terminators in this scenario? Have them count as a specialist weapon, or let them parry away a single melee attack in B2B a turn.
>>43946643
3++ with a re-roll would be way too stronk, I think. There'd be even less reason to take claws.
>>43946643
Re-rollable 3++ means better than a 2++.
That is nuts.
What about giving Storm bolters Shred?
>>43946684
What about updating the Orkz and Chaos Codices?
Honestly, I'd like to see Terminators actually take advantage of the rule that says 'You always fail a save on a 1' and just give them a 1+ save.
Yes, a Meltagun will still ruin your day but it's also a short range anti-tank weapon. It should scare terminators.
You'd however bounce Rending shots (As they become AP 2) and Lascannon and such.
It wouldn't help with them getting drowned in lasguns but it would help with some other issues.
>>43946707
I'd say no. Chaos don't deserve it. They'll whine all the same just for different reasons. And Orks already have an update.
>>43946715
But that doesn't make sense. In fluff they laugh at las guns and fold to plasma and the like. Making it the opposite on TT wouldn't fix anything.
AP 2 everywhere isn't really the fault of the terminators.
>>43946577
>>43946493
>>43946418
Wow, that is great
>>43946469
WS and BS5, a re-rollable armour (just armour) save, and the ability to fire their Stormbolters twice in one turn, at separate units if they so choose.
Re-rollable armour saves makes them pretty much immune to small arms fire but still somewhat vulnerable to AP2 shots, which is a fair compromise IMO. It forces the opponent to use anti-tank weapons to deal with them, which in turn stretches their ability to deal with your actual tanks a bit thinner. It's perfectly fine for AP2 weapons to counter Terminators, so long as regular weapons barely bother them at all.
WS and BS5 just makes sense, considering they're the foremost veterans of the Chapter. Letting them fire their Storm Bolters twice obviously increases their rate of fire without also buffing the firepower of every other unit in the game which carries a Storm Bolter, but it also has the effect of making them more flexible. They can fire their longer ranged Assault Cannon/Cyclone Missiles at a more distant, then turn around and fire again at a closer unit they want to assault.
Their points costs would remain the same in this case. I think that would make them balanced without pushing them into the realms of absurdity that some people are suggesting.
>>43946707
ork units retreat towards and mob up with other friendly units
ork boyz (boyz, not 'ard boyz) in a not-unbound detachment get without number for free, including their trukk if taken
meks have no limit, 5++ for everyone
give warbosses bikes and let them punch at initiative with claws
nobs get an extra wound and T5
I3 base, WAAGH gives units +1I in addition to the other bonuses
can't think of anything else at the moment
>>43946782
*Sigh
Why are so right all the time?
This is what I think termies should be like. Not 1+ saves and the like.
>>43946782
I'd give them also a rerollable invulnerable save. If they have others invulnerables the reroll is saved only on a 5+.
>>43946817
>*Sigh
>>43946820
That's objectively the same as FNP.
>>43946820
No. Too much.
They should still be vulnerable to AP2.
>>43946842
>reeee
>>43946782
I could see them going back to their pre-6th price with those changes. But the re-roll on the 5+ invulnerable save is a fairly important component. AP2 is just way too common for expensive one wound dudes to exist.
>>43946881
35 ppm is very fair for all the stuff listed there imo. Any more and it would become a bit undercosted.
>>43946881
AP2 weapons are designed to kill Terminators and other very heavy non-vehicle targets. If Terminators are vulnerable to plasma weapons, then the game is working as intended and shouldn't be changed in this regard. Terminators should not be some invulnerable ball of death that can ride out whatever is thrown at them - it is perfectly appropriate for them to have a weakness. The problem is that they're currently too vulnerable to regular small arms fire as well, so the opponent doesn't have to think about how to deal with a squad of Terminators. They just point whatever squads are closest at at them and fire until they go away.
>>43946899
Hence why I mentioned going back to 40. Game's got way too much AP2 flying around right now though.
>>43946859
AP 2 is too common right now. A 5+ rerollable means 50% of Ap2 still kills them. That's vulnerable without being "the squad gets wiped out by three grav guns"
And by giving them a reroll on 5+ it justifies a Iron Halo or a Storm Shield.
>>43946855
Except by not being negated by ID or D weapons and being cumulable by the few cases of Terminator with fnp.
>>43946881
ya wish you gits were mega nobz. squishy umies
>>43946944
>implying mega nobz don't also wish they were relevant
>>43946788
So... turn nobs into warbosses.
>>43946936
>>43946937
Guys the AP 2 everywhere is not the fault of the terminators. Trying to give them ways to stop AP 2 from affecting them as much is arms race territory.
>>43946935
Sorry, that was meant to read
>very heavy targets
You shouldn't be able to just plonk a unit of Terminators down wherever and watch them ride out whatever's thrown at them. But if you're able to use other units to destroy, isolate, or tie down the opponent's heaviest weapons, you should be rewarded by having your Terminators able to romp through whatever they can touch without a worry. Players should have to combine units and have them work together to support one another, instead of just dropping down a squad and point-click-delete.
>>43946944
And meganobs wish they weren't more vulnerable to ID than termies.
>>43946957
Pretty much. And make Warbosses into MCs.
>>43946981
>I didn't spend 155 points on a manz missile for it die, but if it touches you.you did
>>43945869
I can dig it.
>>43946374
Traitor Legions would be the uber-elite army, with fearless or pretty much everything, Chosen and other veterans having ws and bs 5 and ability to take one from a list fo special rules like infiltrate or tank hunter. No access to the newer Marine gear, but they would have limited access to lots of daemonic toys and some of the fancy Heresy-era gear, and everything could take Chaos marks which would grant access to some additional wargear (sonic weapons for units with mark of Slaanesh, for example). Very expensive models and low modelcount, though.
Renegades would be more in line with theCSM in the current dex. No atsknf or marks (aside from some elite units), but they would be cheaper than loyalists and could take Chaos icons. They'd have access most of the stuff loyalists have, although maybe with some restrictions (maintaining the fancier stuff might be pretty difficult once you've gone rogue, after all). Basically, they'd the the "MEQ horde" army, with cheaper but shittier marines, along with cultists and a few daemonic toys.
Who are the big name recasters right now? I've got Zhanchui, CCON and MirandaIrene. Who am I missing?
Looking for a few of these, recommendations?
http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-GB/Space-Marine-Heavy-Weapons-Set
>>43947040
>UberMEQs
>terribly low model count
>good
>MEQblob
>no ATSKNF
>good
And Chaos would remain shit, news at 10.
>tfw I thought it was warm enough to prime my models
>40F
Fuck shit it, the first few sprays were fine and then it just started spitting and now parts of my shit looks like it has polka dots....
How much ventilation do I need to not have my whole apartment smell like spray paint?
I have a gas mask from work so I am not worried about inhaling.
>>43947040
So you want them to be Tyranid Warriors with more guns and mutation?
>>43947194
Those are the big three from my experience.
Maybe add heyyou
>all to wound rolls made against models in terminator armor are made at -1.
bam lasguns need 6s, straight doubling the amount needed to spam them down. moreover, even a demolisher canon blast needs 3s, a rare privilege indeed.
they get a much needed boost to survivability in a unique way apropriate to irreplaceable artifact armor without adding a bunch of extra dice rolls to the game through rerolling mechanics or reintroducing 1+. and they still ID at 8 just like a regular old marine.
>>43947316
IIRC he's operating out of DHGate now that Yoymart shut down right?
>>43947322
>Roll modifiers
Maybe if 30k increases in popularity GW will realize that basic math isn't too difficult for their players. MAYBE.
>>43947322
I think DLFG's way is the way I would like it to be desu.
Do you buy models to pose/paint, game or both? If you don't game, how do you justify buying such expensive miniatures when you just look at them only?
Not dissing, just want to hear people's thoughts on the matter.
>>43947414
Pose while still being effective on TT.
>>43946960
>Trying to give them ways to stop AP 2 from affecting them as much is arms race territory.
The only way to cut back on the glut of AP2 is to rework Tau, Eldar and Cron books.
>>43947390
>increase in demographic
>increase of complexity
Haven't you noticed the trend going on?
>>43947427
Not just them. Everyone.
None of the factions you mentioned have grav.
>>43947427
Necrons don't have that much AP2 to be fair.
>>43947427
>Cron
Seriously? They don't really have much AP2.
>>43947442
what's hilarious is they cut down the AP2 melee weapons almost entirely, then turned around to make fucking grav
>>43947345
That's what I've heard
>>43947414
I play to game, my older cousin however (with a MUCH better job) strictly models and makes scenes and stuff. He easily spends a couple grand on models and paints each year.
He played once upon a time and I am sure still has his Necrons some where but with how busy his work and kids keep him he explained it as not wanting to have to stress over a game.
He builds pretty full models too, when I was playing Space Wolves he loaned me his Bjorn, Muderfang, three other Dreadnaughts, Stormfang and five oversized drop pods that he had from one of his Scenes. He also had Thunderwolf Cavalry and a bunch of wolves that I was able to used.
I will try and get a picture though. It was a Khorne Gorepack and a Thunderwolf clash scene. Pretty cool.
>>43947427
>eldar
Most lists rely on weight of fire from things like scat bikes, or wave serpents before that and not as much on ap2.
>>43947427
AP2 proliferation is only considered a thing because units with 2+ saves are either shitty (Terminators) or good (Riptides), and people are blaming the failure of the former on them rather than massed non-armor-piercing shots, or the latter because they are desperate to maintain an advantage.
People need to stop fucking bitching, in other words.
Can you use flame/template weapons for interceptor rule?
>>43947518
Only because they want to. The second AP 2 becomes relevant it's Starcannons everywhere.
>>43947500
I found his store on DHGate, but it looks like he just uses that as a payment method - I messaged him for a catalog so I guess we'll see what happens.
>>43947539
Does the weapon have the interceptor rule?
>Yes
Yes, unless it's a flyer.
>No
No.
>>43947540
remember when they were heavy 3 and there was no reason to use anything else?
fun times
>>43947535
I wholeheartedly agree.
>>43947540
I field a load of star cannons. They aren't that amazing. They are a good gun but not mind blowing.
>>43947194
Z's infantry stuff is pretty good. CCON is too, but it's more expensive for only very slightly better quality.
>>43947573
Who do you think has better DKOK?
>>43947581
CCON. Death Korps has lots of fine points and shit, which Z doesn't do any more poorly, but they use a more brittle resin that tends to break easily.
>>43947414
If you game, how do you justify buying such expensive miniatures when they can be made worthless without notice?
Personally I'd say the models have more value as collectibles and crafts item than glorified chess pieces.
If you only paint and collect wargear, posing, basing are no longer restricted, no longer are you forced to use bland token units to satisfy minimum reqs, no longer is a mediocre blob of a model objectively superior to a well crafter miniature.
>>43947398
I'm fine with everything dflg posted except for the armor rerolls.
>>43947621
Why? That's the main change. That literally like saying "I'm happy with Star Wars but take out the force."
They need the rerolls.
>>43947607
See:
>>43947194
Anything plastic, I generally buy, just because GW needs to stay in business for it to exist. FW's prices are just sheer bullshit, though, so fuck them.
>>43947621
Why not? The point of Terminators (and also the part that they fail at and therefore makes them shitty) is that they are completely invulnerable to small arms. Lasguns, bolters, none of that shit has any effect.
Massed fire is how you take them down. Something is fucked up. RR2+ would fix that.
It's not like they'd still be super-cheese. Plasma/Grav, fluffed as anti-Termie weapons, would actually BE anti-Termie weapons.
>>43947633
until gw does something about it, it doesn't matter who cares for what. I often wonder what ducan Idaho would say.........If wishes were fishes, we'd all cast nets
>>43947651
Based Duncan.
>>43947645
>Anything plastic, I generally buy legitimately
Meant that, sorry
>>43947621
>Im fine with everything except making them not shit.
>>43945082
What's a good army for keeping each game fresh?
And by that I mean what army is really hard to get bored of. My Eldar army, as much as I love it, is very much a glass cannon play style and nothing else.
What army is weird and has variation that mixes things up in each match?
Am I being clear with this? I hope so.
>>43947607
Touche. I suppose maybe both is the best?
I would argue against "being made worthless without notice". Most models can be reused as something else. A fancy Sergeant can be used a captain or other named HQ character for example.
I suppose some people can't justify purchases when they all they do is gather dust in a display cabinet and not being used to wage glorious war and gathering memories and battlefield honours. And some consider it all vice versa, with the hobby experience being paramount as opposed to the game which many consider flimsy at best.
>>43947762
Skitarii/Admech, though be warned that it will be expensive.
Want a horde of tanks? Run massed Dunecrawlers. Want MCs that markerlight harder than Tau? Elimination Maniple. Swarms of infantry that will crack the table in half under the weight of their shooting dice? Vanguard spam. Elite close combat forces that require skill to use effectively? Sicarans.
They are absolutely the most fun I've had with the game in years.
>>43947762
Buy more wraithguard and you have as much resilience as you want.
>>43947762
Daemons, because they are the lords of random. No single game will play out the same and with all your dice rolling you may find yourself doing lulzy shit like having half your army disappear into nothing or after 3 turns of getting a squad whittled down... they suddenly pop back in at full strength also from nowhere.
you don't even buy wargear for them for the most part. You buy rolls on tables to see what you purchased will be for that game.
>>43947762
Well, if you get a varied enough force, nids and orks can be very fresh.
Being low tier means you can afford to take what you feel like without gimping yourself immensely.
And there's the "defeatist" attitude too, coming into a game expecting nothing and then winging out a win is very refreshing.
>>43947633
>>43947645
>>43947669
rerolls are bad because they add more dice rolls to the game. granting rerolls on a very, very common kind of roll to an entire class of unit which is avalible to more than half the armies in the game is a fucking lot more rolls.
it's why I suggested to wound modifiers instead.
>>43947820
They don't fit into the Craftworld Warhost easily. You have to take the Wraith host.
>>43947830
>more dice rolls
>in a dice game
THE HORROR!
>>43947820
>What army is weird and has variation that mixes things up in each match?
>Wraithguard
>Walk 6 inches, buff up, shoot 12" D
>Rinse repeat
>>43947831
>They don't fit into the Craftworld Warhost easily. You have to take the Wraith host.
I think there are some new formations in the new Forgeworld book. At least wraithblades are easy to take on their own.
But yes, I too think it is annoying that they are so hard to take outside of the wraith host. And I refuse to bring a wraith knight since I play Ulthwe with the old strikeforce theme.
>>43947830
OY VEY, NON-ELDARS GETTING RE-ROLLED SAVES? SHUT IT DOWN.
>>43947867
>I refuse to bring my army's retard-stronk superunit because I value their fluff
>>43947842
...yes?
a hit of acid is fun and two is a party, but if you jam the whole sheet in your mouth bad times are ahead.
>>43947762
Daemons obviously, they just roll randomly every game, even for their wargear.
Or orkz. Chuck dice and pray for the 5+
when using flash gitz and rolling d6 for armor pen pray for the 2-
>>43947880
>Eldar do it so it's ok for me to do it!
errrm, nah don't live down to their example.
Would it be shitty of m to put my Darkshroud on the smallest flier stilt and the three Land Speeders on the tallest stilt they came with to help obstruct view of the Darkshroud or is it just tactical?
In the fluff it says the Land Speeders fly overhead and a biker couldnt even fit under the tallest stilt.
The Darkshroud is older tech and much bigger so it kind of makes sense it would be a bit lower.
>>43947921
The whole point is that it gives them a 98% chance (quite literally, that's how the hammer works it out) of completely ignoring anything less than AP2. So you take six-ish plasma gun hits, maybe four wounds, roll your ++ against them.
That's not bad times, that's the shooting phase since Second Edition.
>>43947936
>their example
One elite (and expensive) unit noted for its extreme durability getting re-rolled saves is quite a bit different from an entire army getting easy access to re-rolls.
>>43947645
>FW prices are bullshit
Give it a few years, FW devistators are almost the same price as GWs
>>43947939
>Darkshroud rolls like a Caddy
Do it, and use that as your excuse, word for word.
>>43947939
Don't be a dick.
>>43947984
Sure, and when they are reasonable, I'll buy from them. I have nothing against them as a company, except that their prices are too steep for me to want to purchase their products.
Since a Spruce Maroon spits acid, is there any way I can use this in a campaign?
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/672087.page
This makes me LOL if true.
>>43948009
I'd say give them digital weapons, and if you kill someone with the reroll, call it "burning half his/her/its face off with acid".
Bonus points if you beat a Nid at its own game doing this.
>>43946753
Source marine? Also, what's the consensus on the Space Wolves mobile game?
>>43948014
>dakkadakka buttblasted about based fa/tg/uy
Fuck 'em, they're a bunch of cunts.
>>43948009
why not just call your flamer acid spit or something?
This way you have stats for it, and its just a semantics thing.
>>43948092
Nah, it's all or nothing on lethal projectile saliva
>>43947830
Oh come on there are rerolls everywhere in 40k. If you aren't autistic you can handle it.
>>43948014
What was the poll about?
>>43948123
Something about Tau unit rules, and anon supposedly voted fifty-ish times against them.
Honestly, if it gets DD and Warseer pissed off, how can you not be all for it?
>>43947831
Have you considered a CAD?
>>43948014
>ITCgate
>It's about ethics in wargaming rules
>>43948155
My favorite's the deutschfag who keeps saying that ITC is corrupt and invalid.
>>43948153
My strategy relies very heavily on the 6" runs. All my dudes are guardians. They will die very easily.
>>43947762
>My Eldar army, as much as I love it, is very much a glass cannon play style and nothing else.
Eldar are amazing in terms of versatility. Use a Farseer for psyker magic. Windriders for fast moving troops. Warp Spiders for teleportation shenanigans. Wraithguard for resilient commando troops. Fire Prisms for versatile Firepower. Wraithknight for versatile super unit. Something like this.
1837 points
---HQ---
Farseer - 160 points
-Singing Spear
-Skyrunner Upgrade
-Shard of Anaris
---Troops---
(6) Windriders - 190 points
-Windrider Warlock
-Singing Spear for Windrider Warlock
-5 Scatter Lasers
(6) Windriders - 190 points
-Windrider Warlock
-Singing Spear for Windrider Warlock
-5 Scatter Lasers
---Fast Attack---
(5) Warp Spiders - 140 points
-Exarch upgrade
-Spinneret Rifle for Exarch
-Powerblades for Exarch
(5) Warp Spiders - 140 points
-Exarch upgrade
-Spinneret Rifle for Exarch
-Powerblades for Exarch
---Elites---
(6) Wraithguard - 252 points
-D-scythes for everyone
---Dedicated Transports---
Wraithguard: Wave Serpent - 135 points
-Exchange TL Shuriken Cannon for TL Eldar Missile Launcher
-Exchange TL Shuriken Catapult for TL Shuriken Cannon
---Heavy Support---
(2) Fire Prisms - 300 points
-Shuriken Cannons
-Holo-Fields
---Lords of War---
Wraithknight - 330 points
-Suncannon and Scattershield
-Scatter Laser
-Starcannon
Don't use too many Wraith units or Scatbikes though people will get angry.
>>43948123
The Taucurion allows you to combine the firepower of 3 or more units to act like a single one. The issue is that since they are forming a temporal unit, that means that their shots are affeected by special rules that affect whole units (tank-hunter for example). The ruling was about limiting it to just +BS and for Markerlights.
>>43948116
you're right, I could handle it. I wold not box up my army for sale on ebay and toddlers off back to the board game tables if they gave termies rerolls.
But I'm not making a decision to play or no play here, I'm just talking about hypothetical game design with my friends.
and rerolls are bad. you want to keep the number of rolls that happen low because every throw of the dice adds time to the game and rerolls rang from as bad as to outright worse than an entire additional roll for this purpose.
40k already takes hours.
>>43948224
Ah yes that makes it difficult then.
86pt tax gets you a CAD alongside your warhost though?
>>43948146
Ah I see. Might've been about the coordinated firepower thing, whether it should be allowed or not.
>>43948266
My math sucks, 137pt tax
>>43948254
that.... seems reasonanle?
why the butt devastation?
>>43948263
Rerollingsaves for one unit will not add hours onto the game. That's simply not true.
That's why everyone is disagreeing with you. Because it's false.
>>43948281
Tau players.
>>43948281
I'd wager because anyone who doesn't play to win at these tourneys isn't doing it right. This gimps Tau's ability to steamroll that much harder.
>>43948281
It was the perfect Deathstar killer.
>>43948263
>my four-hour wargame sessions would go on too long if Terminators got to reroll armor!
Jesus.
>>43948281
Because they want to get three units with shit like Monster Hunters, the Structural Analyzer, and five markerlights for Overwatch.
How many bikes should I bring in a typical vanilla bike list?
>>43948333
14 exactly.
>>43948333
15-20, a few attack bikes in addition to that.
This is assuming pure bike.
>>43947827
This.
I don't even have that many models and my Daemons army is a mixed bag of fun shenanigans. I LOVE it. Some games I summon mass hordes, others I buff my Daemon Princes into super-hulks, others the Dark Gods want me to scream and the Warp Storm table is all 1s and 2s.
Really, >>43947762 , if you want re playability ,random fun, and still keep a good army, Daemons is the way to go. Their paint schemes are so varied that it keeps things fresh. They also have access to some great Forge World stuff, and can be played in Age of Smegmar and 30k as well.
Why does people even play professionally at 40k? This game is not well known for its balance.
>>43948374
I am not sure actually. It's even that much dumber considering that GW encourages in like the first few pages to not do only wargaming, but to realize that the hobby's about fluff, wargaming, and painting put into one.
>>43948281
The rule states that they fire as one unit. The tau buffmander can hand out things like twin linked, and tank hunters. But because it was an open vote, and most people play not tau, it was unsprisingly mob voted down, even though raw and rai support it.
Basically the vote came down to this
How would you like tau to play in our tournaments?
A) the way that the rule clearly works.
B) nah bro, fuck tau bro.
option B won, possibly fradulently because anyone with an email and made up name could vote. And NOBODY in the history of ever has had multiple email accounts to rig something right?
>>43948374
Excellent question.
I have no goddamn clue.
>>43948251
This list makes you look like a fucking asshole, dude. I hope you realize that.
>>43948340
>2x3 with grav/combigrav
>2x3 with melta/combimelta
>1 HQ on bike to unlock bike troops
>1 to actually screw the lightbulb in
Sounds right to me.
>>43948306
more like WAAC players
>>43948330
coordinated firepower doesnt work in overwatch. See people dont know SHIT about it, but they hear tau have nice things and it gets em all fucked in the ears with anger.
>>43948388
>m-muh Tau got gimped because people don't want to be faceraped every match by a broken (intentional or no) RAW interpretation
Get over yourself.
>>43948404
It only runs 1 Wraithknight and 2 Windrider Squads. The real asshole cheese build is like 4 WKs and 3-5 Windrider squads.
>>43948404
All elder/Tau/necrons list do that. We all realize it, they know it, fucking weeaboos.
IS THAT GUY WITH THE ELDAR ARMY THAT WAS PAINTED BLUE digital STILL AROUND? HE WOULD POST HIS ARMY IN EVERY SINGLE THREAD. NOT SEEN IT IN A WHILE.
>>43948288
I didn't claim it would add hours. it just adds time, and adding time to a game that takes hours is bad.
>>43948411
What's the difference?
>>43948416
That may be (fuck, definitely is) true. But Tau players also bitch and whine with the best of them, and they have the #2 tier for the time being.
>>43948433
#shotsfired
>>43948251
>Don't use too many Wraith units or Scatbikes though people will get angry.
Dude I already want to punch you in the balls repeatedly IRL for THIS. And you claim "dont use too many"? Masterful troll or terrible retard, either way eat a dick.
>>43947819
>>43947827
>>43947828
>>43947933
>>43948370
Right so daemons seems to be the answer here. They seem mostly melee so they will balance well with my shooting Eldar army.
Where is a good place to start with daemons?
>>43948419
Eldar exist
Necron decursion exists
Marine gladius strike force eixst
Your sentence applies to all of these. Where is the vote to remove kebab on these?
>>43948474
Pick a God.
>Khorne: muh melee
>Nurgle: muh toughness
>Tzeentch: muh psykers and 20 witchfire dice
>Slaanesh: GOTTAGOFAST
>>43948494
What if I like all four?
>>43948424
No, anything with more than one scatbiker squad is automaticly assholish, D scythes and WK's only pisses in the wound.
>>43948433
>>43948486
None of those gain their power from odd wordings and this tau one even without the extras is still very powerful.
>>43948519
Dude you can't honestly say that Tau are bullshit then that the Gladius and decurion (seriously fuck decurion) are ok. That's horseshit.
>>43948443
not the same guy, but I would probably place them number 4.
I think marines have the edge with ObSec everywhere, eldar have cheeze for days, and the top tier necron list would beat the top tier tau list every time. 18 wraiths tie up whatever you want, including stormsurges for the rest of the game, and are STILL cheaper than 2.
>>43948486
An open letter to people who:
>Play Eldar
>Hate Eldar
>Play Tau
>Hate Tau
>Play Crons
>Hate Crons
>Play Marines
>Hate Marines
>Play Warconvo
>Hate Warconvo
>Whine about "muh Chaos"
>Whine about "muh Nids"
>Whine about "muh Orks"
G E T
O V E R
Y O U R S E L V E S
>>43948538
I didn't say that.
>>43948506
Then... buy all four.
Blodletter troops, Nurgle plague drones are both good, tzeentch has flamers in it's favour to to my recollection no much else, slaanesh makes some decent asassin HQ's and killy chariots, though it's the two former that seem to have the edge overall.
>>43948474
Pink/blue horrors shit an amazing amount of mental dakka with flickering fire even if theyre down to one model
Great unclean ones are monstrously difficult to kill so long as theres no strength D at your table. Taking 2 greater rewards and all the psyker levels could net you the dream of strength 9 toughness 10, 7 wound, IWND and 4+ FNP for 300 points, The less fun more competitive choice is nurgle daemon prince with wings for that sweet 2+ jink
Nurglings are great objective holders and tarpitters, and the nurgle beasts can protect your horrors quite easily, Soul grinders are amazing and i always include atleast one, All of the fast attack options are decent though im partial to khorne dogs and screamers
If youre going mono daemon your army will be fairly trash and youre better off going khorne daemonkin
>>43948433
>This faggot can't tell them apart
>>43948506
Then the daemons codex is right for you
>>43948604
>would you a 10/10 with a dick?
>>43948519
But it WASENT a rules clarification. Look again. It LITERALLY asked how you would like it to be played. And most people said "I would like whichever option fucks tau in the ass" many without even trying to play them once.
>>43948620
Everyone would
>>43948562
I play Eldar and hate Decurion formations and all who use them.
Hate all who use more then two of the same units with the same loadout
Hate those who ally 4 different armies to mix n match buffs and wargear
Hate those who bring Superheavies and Gargs to non-apoc games.
>>43948582
>>43948604
>>43948616
Cheers folks. I was worried you would be stuck into playing one God for whatever reason.
What's a good HQ and two troops to start with?
>>43948562
>G E T
>O V E R
>Y O U R S E L V E S
Ge
Ov
Yo
G
O
Y
Oh my GOD, the jews are behind this!
>>43948620
It's hard to a 10/10 without a dick.
