Who's your nemesis, /wodg/?
What character wants to kill you, or at the very least make your life a living hell? Maybe you're the one trying to drive them to ruin, plotting ways to make them pay for some crime they committed, some offense they made against you and yours?
Who is on your list, and who's list are you on?
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Last thread >>43629959
Teenaged Herbert West.
This Promethean game's taken some weird turns.
Werewolf: Constantly-smiling corporate manager fellow who's obviously involved with some heinous spirit shit but I can't find proof yet.
Promethean: The Osirian Magneto to my Tammuz Professor X; we've actually cooperated every time we meet and generally respect each other, but some day I'm probably gonna have to punch his head off so he won't take over the world.
>>43664796
That dude is looking at his gun as if he were about to have sex with it.
>>43665088
He does seem like a pretty formidable nemesis.
I think one of the most memorable WoD scenes was in a Mage game where my character got talked down from pursuing a personal enemy.
Basically there was this Nephandus who was sending cursed grimores to high schoolers, and my character's brother read part of one. Not enough to awaken, we caught it just in time, but my character was UPSET.
We found the guy, but had other issues going on as well, and my character was about to go on the warpath when the Guardian of the group basically said, "You've got a vengeance problem. You could totally kill this guy in a thousand creative ways, or you could be the leader we need you to be and let me take care of him."
There was also Archeon, a Seer heavy who caused a riot that nearly killed my character's sister, but he was more of a group nemesis.
nice image OP
I never play but if I ran a game of Hunter I would turn one PC's childhood home into a sentient psychic monster that creates Final Destination-esque scenarios for that specific character to fall into.
The house bruises when you punch a wall and the basement is full of stomach acid. Obviously built on an Indian burial ground with strong ties to the Underworld. It is upset that the PC never came back to visit.
>>43664995
>but some day I'm probably gonna have to punch his head off so he won't take over the world
Just make him into a real boy so he forgets everything.
>>43665357
>nice image OP
Someone linked it last thread and I found the full size. Mort Kunstler. A lot of his art looks like it would be good.
>>43665733
>Demon busts into an Ashwood Abbey meeting.jpg
>>43665733
>ashwood abbey vs. loyalists of thule
Do we know if Neolithic or Hellenistic mage will have higher power levels than current Mage? I know in Ascension mages of the past were more powerful for sure but its hinted in several places that it was true in Awakening too though the reason why was never explained. Are all the Dark Eras mages like super powerful and break the 5th dot without being Archmasters like they are supposed to?
>>43665898
Hellenistic Mage has the same relative power levels as regular Mage, and there doesn't seem to be any hint that Neolithic Mage will be any different.
I think last week I asked you guys about intelligent animals in NWOD. It wasn't in Second Sight like I thought it was, but I just found a section about them in Skinchangers. What would be an interesting way to implement them in a game?
>>43666577
Animal Prometheans are canon, and my ST uses a cranky old crow (unable to complete his Pilgrimage due to a lack of thumbs to create progeny with) quite effectively as a recurring ally.
>>43666577
As embodied spirits, the way Gaia intended.
>excited to play first WoD game
>GM says it will be plot-heavy and less combat based
>Says he knows the system by heart
>doesn't
>does stupid shit like require an arbitrary number of multiple successes while giving -3 to -6 penalties for most mundane tasks
>gives us literally nonstop combat encounters interspersed with enough plot devices and deus ex machina moments to keep us barely alive
>has basically two characters
>someone is almost in full agg every session
>calls for humanity checks like this was Call of Cthulhu
Luckily the other players are great but holy shit am I fucking tired of getting my shit stomped in every week only to have my ass saved by one of his mary sues.
>>43665202
Did your Guardian friend murder the guy like a good Cabalmate?
>>43666708
Leave his game, play a different game with the rest of the group. If you want, let your GM be a player like he clearly wants to be (since he wants to be the one whose character solves problems), which will also let him learn the fucking rules.
>>43666718
FUCK YEAH I DID.
>>43666577
I had a big old grey cat in my Changeling game. It showed up inside the Hedge and it could talk. It would show up outside of the Hedge too, though, and it wouldn't talk there. It would just stare at you, condescendingly.
It wasn't a Hedge beast. I didn't ever intend on describing what it actually was.
>>43665733
Eh, it's a bit too...generic pulp.
>>43666577
Cryptids (animals warped by contact with the God-Machine, detailed in Demon) can, among other weird mutations, be intelligent animals.
>>43667415
>animals warped by contact with the God-Machine
Or you know, half-spirit creatures in pretty much every other Line.
Posting my NWOD JoJo homebrew again. It's still a work in progress, so I'd really appreciate getting some feedback.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/16ILQg-VrKzGS3LOzdRKMr7O7lQu9NWREnD8zGwmMW8Y/edit?usp=sharing
>>43666718
Actually, Guardians will GO TO THE WALL for you, even standing up against the other Guardians. That's their lesser known schtick. They will tell you to stop doing what you're doing and convince you to see the error of your ways, but if you don't, they will give you LOYALTY TO THE END.
If a Guardian in a long time cabal ever leaves due to "irreconcilable differences" and won't say what they were, chances are it means that group is supervillains.
>>43667952
So they're less "secret police gonna dob you in to the big boss" and more of a "check and balance"?
I guess i should read through their book.
My characters father, who abandoned him when he was ten. Turns out he's a Seer of the Throne.
>>43666817
Good job!
>>43668064
They're still secret police, but considering they have the reputation they do of being backstabbing murders at the first sign of corruption, they are VERY determined that if they can't dissuade their cabal from horrible actions, they'll stick with them to the bitter end no matter what. They don't have to like it, but they're going to follow through. Their loyalty is their strongest trait, after their conviction. They don't betray anyone, not their allies, not their enemies. The Guardians will even defend their cabal from other Guardians if that's what it comes to.
Of course, they DO have Interfectors, who will pretend to be part of a group and undermine or destroy it from within. But if they're doing that, you won't know they're Guardians.
How would the various Hunter and Mage groups react to a signal turning people who observe it into sand monsters?
>>43668920
if you're gonna rip off doctor who then at least use one of the not shit monsters.
>>43664796
What character wants to kill you, or at the very least make your life a living hell? Maybe you're the one trying to drive them to ruin, plotting ways to make them pay for some crime they committed, some offense they made against you and yours?
the potion seller, he does't want to give me anything saying it's to strong for me
>>43669460
Like daleks?
>>43666718
Zombie showed up in the guy's room and ate him.
Sable was a treasure.
Bloodlines is 11 years old, /WoDg/. You gonna re-install?
>>43668064
If the Guardians decide a guy needs to get dead, they very deliberately will not tell any Guardians in that Cabal, just to make sure they can't even consider betraying their Cabalmates.
>>43670922
Guardians love lying, its like they're married to it.
>>43670965
With Masks, we also know that Guardians love lying to themselves, too.
>>43670635
But I never uninstalled it in the first place, Anon. I've never tried the clan mods, maybe it's time to go Sabbat.
Help me a bit with this NPC pair. They're meant to be primarily quest givers/comic relief/information givers for my next Changeling, Geist and Vampire campaigns.
She's an Acanthus of the Free Council who strongly associates with the Open Source Movement (not sure which Legacy to use), he (usually he) is a Psychopomp Inquisitor running an Agency.
How would the couple dynamics in such an arrangement be, and how could they protect each other with their respective abilities?
Before someone asksyes they fug.
>>43671008
I've never tried the mods, either. Anyone know if they're easy to install?
>>43671008
>going sabbat
>2015
>shiggydiggydoo
>>43671144
Well lets get the nasty stuff out of the way first, is the Acanthus in love with the demon or the cover? How does the Acanthus even perceive the demon? Does she have any protection against him? He against her? They're both paranoid splats, and deciding how they protect themselves from each other will help decide how they protect each other from outsiders.
What're their goals? Ambitions? Is the mage studying the demon? Is the demon looking to steal a delicious wizard soul? Who knows the demon's working with an outsider in the agency? If you flesh out the characters as individuals a bit, you may find the answers to the questions about their relationship answer themselves.
>>43671144
>Free Council
Blank Badges are the shit.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fEocj1eLsmg
R.I.P.D works for a Geist campaign, right?
Is anyone running a game and looking for a player? Hit me up!
>>43671515
I guess there's no email field anymore, lel
[email protected]
Are the Heroes from Mirrors' Dark Fantasy section any good? What splats are they on the same level as?
So my premium-quality Vampire 2e and Werewolf 2e came in (ordered two weeks ago, projected delivery time was 6-8 weeks, so that was a lot better than I was expecting). They're very pretty.
Apparently they solved the "we can't do full-bleed on PoD" problem, (at least with the premium ones?) as well.
The downside of course being that the layout of these new corebooks is still a fucking mess, and now I can't just click the ToC to take me there directly. I guess I'll just have to memorize.
>>43664796
Wtf is wrong with the gun, it has no magazine well
Just started a demon campaign.
I guess my nemesis is my cover's boss at my taxi company.
You will rue the day you made me unblock the gents, Greg! Your time of suffering is near!
>>43671290
>Well lets get the nasty stuff out of the way first, is the Acanthus in love with the demon or the cover?
"Love" might be too much. Or at least she'd never admit to such feelings. She finds him/her alluring/sexy/interesting/hot/, and yes it's more the Demon than his favourite covers.
>How does the Acanthus even perceive the demon?
An Acanthus ruling Arcana is Fate, so I fluff it as her seeing him as 'jagged' or 'washed out' due to the inherently diffuse nature of a Demon's existence.
>Does she have any protection against him? He against her?
Phew. Good question those.
>What're their goals? Ambitions?
> Is the mage studying the demon?
Quite so. Not least of all because she has this idee fixe that Infrastructure could safeguard an Area against the Abyss, though that's obviously kinda dangerous to try and prove.
>Is the demon looking to steal a delicious wizard soul?
He believes that Arcadia might be an interesting candidate for Hell, so he's considering it.
>Who knows the demon's working with an outsider in the agency?
He is pretty damn sure nobody does, but Analysts have ways to shit all over your Pretty Damn Sure-s soooo... yeah.
>>43671409
They seem interesting yeah.
>>43672013
>Wtf is wrong with the gun, it has no magazine well
Chain fed?
>>43672223
Okay so it seems like a relationship of mutual exploitation that has the danger of evolving into something real. So think of it like that; light and flirty, both feeling safe in the knowledge that they could stop any time they want to, they just don't want to. Everything's fine, they are totally in control. Maybe the occasional bit of tension when a probing question comes up or there's an unexpected phone call.
A relationship like that is a house of cards, and ideally the PCs should feel like their zany comic relief allies are hiding something because they are, even if its not from the PCs.
>>43671144
>>43672223
>Hunter the Reckoning Ascending One
Ascending Ones are in Vigil, and I don't think Constantine is one; he just smokes.
Also, why the maker movement? That seems more like a Moros thing, if anything. Your characters do look pretty good, though.
>>43672679
>both feeling safe in the knowledge that they could stop any time they want to, they just don't want to.
Nothing is sexier than a man who wears another face every day after all.Anons characters kinda feel like a WoD version of Joker and Harley Quinn as per their Arcam Knight rendition i.e mostly focused around mutual mindfucks.
Has anyone ever used the Barrett Commission as a antagonist in VtR?
I could imagine a Barrett agent coming in under the guise of "investigating corporate corruption" and ending up destroying a vampire's business and reputation, if not the vampire himself.
>>43667142
Are you the faggot that keeps posting Dresden files images? Cut that shit out.
No Monday notes yet? Seems suspicious.
>>43674351
I'm the one posting the Dresden Files images AND the one >>43667142 is talking to. I posted the OP image and >>43665733. And the Michael MacRae art. And the images from The Crow and Nightmare Before Christmas, and American Werewolf in London, and Supernatural, and Hellsing, and Vampire Hunter D and the WoD MMO. Also a lot of random images from /tg/ that just seem WoD-y
I've made pretty much every thread starter that isn't Steak Sauce or Hotel Transylvania.
>>43674609
This is in no way unusual.
>>43674609
Nah, Monday Notes don't get posted until evenings EST. We'll probably see it around 6 or 7.
>>43674351
>Cut that shit out.
Also: no?
Does anyone have a link to Geist 1.1? All the links I've found are dead, and my PDF is old.
>>43674647
Steak Sauce OP best OP.
>>43674673
You're not really missing much. Honestly I can't see anywhere they're different, and I can't find a link that describes the differences.
>>43674647
>And the Michael MacRae art.
>I've made pretty much every thread starter that isn't Steak Sauce or Hotel Transylvania.
To be fair, I made quite a few Michael MacRae images myself since the thread you originally posted them in 404'd and I couldn't be bothered to go looking for it.
I also did a few threads with Daryl Toh's art, pic related
>>43674692
Oh, I didn't know you'd made your own. Also, upload some of those new ones, haven't seen that before. I'm thinking of putting together a big folder of them.
Although I keep waking up to see the thread has been dead for hours, so even with other images I doubt anyone but me and you will make threads :T
>>43674688
They cleaned it up though, and I am curious as to the changes.
>>43674714
I think this is the only other one I've got on this laptop from Daryl Toh. Got one other non-MacRae image, though; I'll upload it in a minute.
>>43674819
in short, pretty much any of the general images that got posted with a name like "Image_Name-By_Artist(WoDG)" were probably mine
Although I know there's also a few I did using art from the Onyx Path blog or various bits of M20 artwork
>>43674692
>Promethean or Deviant
>>43674819
>Beast or Hunter monster
>>43674853
>Mage awakening
>>43673195
I wouldn't go that far, they don't sound psychotic...or any more psychotic than your average mage and demon...just in denial about the emotional strings in their relationship.
>>43673407
I have them in the background, waiting for the right moment to use them.
I forget what I was looking for but I ended up on this Wikipedia page.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_vampire_traits_in_folklore_and_fiction
What skills and merits are required for top tier roller skate action?
>>43675957
This is a good page, I am keeping this page.
Hey all. So I'm dealing with a Strix in my mix campaign, and have a question. It states that they are immune to all attacks that don't deal aggravated damage. But does that effect things that don't deal damage? For example, Grave-dirt Rage 3? It drains willpower. I know Dave wrote the Strix, and posts here often, so maybe someone could help with this?
>>43676249
They're immune to most damage.
That's not damage.
Drain 'em dry, buddy.
>>43676249
I'd let their "immune to mind effecting powers." gift protect them from that, though.
>>43676706
I'd be tempted to let it slide just to see what a Strix drained of its willpower looks like. They don't seem like the type to be tired.
Monday Meeting notes are up. Mage hasn't budged, but Scion's in first draft now.
>>43677553
>Scion's in first draft now
>>43676841
Well its a specific power that bounces back attacks, not a passive one. So a normal strix, fine, but one with the anti-dominate/presence/obfuscate power'd bounce it back.
>>43677553
Also, apparently Paradox approved of OPP going ahead with next month's Changeling the Dreaming 20th Anniversary Kickstarter. So, that line's safe, it seems.
So the beast book mentions that just witnessing the supernatural genrally wont get someones integrity low enough to become a hero. But theres no mention of a limit on how low it can go, someone could witness six supernetural events, and fail all the rolls and go to integrity 1 couldnt they? Also are there any penalties to low integrity besides the conditions that come whenever you lose a dot?
>>43677553
I want to somehow mentally will Dark Eras into getting closer to being finished.
>>43678386
Call Dave and ask for an in-depth explanation of how Willworkers do it.
>>43678435
"I can't tell you except that the Free Council is in fact right and correct and will win the game."
>>43678488
> Have spent the last month being accused of making the Guardians clearly in the right mary-sues, for some goddamn reason.
> Read this.
"If multiple people accuse you of being biased in mutually-contradictory ways, you're doing something right."
>>43677995
In theory that could happen, but I don't see that sort of thing happening in play and making sense, unless it was six increasingly terrifying/world-shattering supernatural experiences.
>>43678691
>"If multiple people accuse you of being biased in mutually-contradictory ways, you're doing something right."
Or, you're doing a whole lot wrong...
Hopefully, that is not the case with Mage 2e.
>>43678902
Nah, you're doing a whole lot wrong when everyone's got you pegged for favoring one protagonist faction. Well, unless you're playing Exalted, I guess.
is there a point of playing a Reconciler Fallen?
i mean, GM shouldn't even allow too low perma torment right?
would god even accept back a fallen?
>>43678691
Anyone who is unhappy that the Guardians don't come off as Captain Wrong and the Wrong Crew can just make every spell that does something cool automatically vulgar again except for Mind which is special.
There, problem solved.
Still annoyed about the tepid thearchs, though.
vampire and werewolf sounds cool but there is way too many spooky wookies in this series its scaring me away..
like how the hell do you play as a mummy or promethues in modern society and not stand out in a horrible way
>>43679051
While you can run the games as a unified setting, and there's support for it, a unified setting isn't necessarily the default. Either way, Promethean has it so that you're wandering around a lot, and Mummy has it so that you've got a Cult obfuscating your presence in the world.
>Chris Allen says that in next week there will be monday update about "The Pack"
>a month later
>not even a monday update about other stuff
...
>>43679135
what about demons? thanks for the answer
>>43679194
Sorry, now I saw the update. Still, nothing about "The Pack" and I presume Christ still can't say anything about it. Eh...
>>43679051
Okay, first thing: all templates are optional. The person running the game can and will completely ignore whole books of content; it's modular by design. So you can play a simple vampire and/or werewolf game without fear.
To answer your actual question: Mummies look like desiccated corpses when they've just woken up, but "liven up" when they've been walking around for a while. Prometheans look human to non-Prometheans when they're not using their powers, though they still give off a kind of aura that turns people against them.
>>43679212
Demons are actually the BEST at looking human; they steal people's existences (aka everything BUT the soul) and pose as them. You can maintain multiple Covers like this at once, switching back and forth to keep angels off your tail.
>>43678691
You know what, I'm sorry. I'm still a little salty over how broad Techne is and that it covers traditional occult tools like, say, tarot. Unless that changed, I haven't been keeping super up with the development to keep myself from going crazy.
I've got issues with some of your setting changes but I haven't seen the whole thing yet and that doesn't give me the right to be pissy about it, so sorry.
>>43678938
All up to the GM. I always got the feeling that try-hard Reconciler engages with the themes of the game best.
>>43679323
Nah, s'alright. Techne does indeed cover traditional occult tools.
The thing to remember about the Free Council is that they aren't Awakening's equivalent of the Virtual Adepts. They're Awakening's equivalent of the Crafts (or whatever they're called in M20).
"Techne" isn't a cool name for "Technological magic". It's ancient greek for "Craft".
Are there Dhampirs in nWoD? What book?
>>43679626
Yes, and a couple... I think they were in Danse Macabre and Wicked Dead.
>>43679505
so then where do the technological mages and revolutionaries go?
>>43679654
They're still there, it's just not their only thing.
>>43679626
>>43679649
More will come in an upcoming Vampire book, that focuses on Ghouls, Revenants, and other semi-vampires. Dhampir will be among them and these will apparently be playable, rather than the NPC doom singularities they used to be.
>>43679654
Revolutionaries? In the Free Council.
Mages who use technological symbols in casting? In every single Order, but especially in the Free Council. Awakening doesn't have the magic vs science division that Ascension does - mages use science for its symbolic potential in spells the same way they use everything, without ever mistakenly believing that their powers are based in those rituals.
Us remembering that the Libertines are meant to be as interested in Australian Dreamspeaking Legacies as they are in the magical potential of quantum physics does not mean they lose the other side of themselves. They're the human culture mages, and science is human culture.
The Dreamspeakers, Bokor, Blank Badges, and Thredonists are all Free Council Legacies.
>>43679649
Fuck, they are in Wicked Dead, and that's one of the only books I don't have. Can I get a download, or any information that isn't oWoD related?
>>43679785
But... eh.. "human culture" is so extremely broad. How can there be space left for the other orders, if Free Council snags the "human culture" part of being a Mage?
>>43679785
>Bokor
Oh man, that's an awkward group to show up at meetings.
>>43679831
The division between the three sects is on a philosophical level.
See http://theonyxpath.com/new-order/
But in brief:
Diamond mages believe in fashioning magical identities and societies for themselves based on the Supernal, taking on archetypal roles for their magical properties. A Guardian accepts the distrust of others and an Arrow perfects himself through adversity and service because they believe those roles are, in some way, Supernal. When they look at human culture for magic, they look for how those roles have appeared in those cultures - an Arrow will take all the Warrior-y bits of any given magical tradition and ignore the rest of it.
The Free Council do the opposite, specializing in different fields, living in them, and using the whole of the orange.
>>43679831
Awakening is not Ascension, and the majority of mages in Awakening's setting to not base their magic on mortal culture. There's no "paradigm" in Awakening.
Both the four Orders of the Diamond Precept and the Seers take a "as above, so below" view of magic, and generally believe the Supernal dictates the appropriate magical "culture" and tools,
The Free Council follow a more "as below, so above" ideology that believes human culture sometimes influences the Supernal, and therefore should be researched for new symbols and ideas. However, they are no more limited to human cultural roles in their magic as any other mage.
>>43679839
The Guardian in my cabal was a Bokor and I laughed out loud when she got in my character's face about summoning goetic demons.
We were both huge hypocrites, wary of the "dark potential" each other had while rationalizing our own questionable methods.
>>43679785
Feels worth distinguishing between science and technology. The Mysterium is lab-coat-deep into science and is said to boast a larger presence on university campuses and in academia than any other Order; all knowledge is knowledge, etc.
>>43680293
Certainly Pantechnicon is all about that distinction...
>>43678884
Huh.
So in 1st low morality gave you permanent derangement. Is there any difference in 2e between a guy with integrity 3 and a guy with integrity 7?
>>43680860
Losing Integrity can cause you to gain insanity conditions. Also, lower Integrity makes it easier to lose Integrity until, eventually, you hit zero and become a gibbering wreck.
>>43680892
As some people have pointed out, in 2e you don't actually go to 0 and become unplayable. I don't know whether this is intentional or an oversight. We'll likely find out in nWoD2e core.
>>43676166
I love that Count Chocula is on the list.
>>43679051
>promethues
I see Brazil has come up with a new lineage.
Dave, what's your opinion on the Whipping Boys?
http://www.thesubnet.com/portal/wod2/mtaw/LegacyWB.html
>>43682108
IIRC it was mentioned a while back that they're gonna be in core
>>43682376
Good lord.
>>43682376
Cool. I didn't even think there'd be any Legacies in Core; we still only have the three Bloodlines even.
Hopefully they do away with the whole "also Left-Handed" thing. That just seems "they're kinky so secretly evil"but then again I didn't read the write up in the actual bookso that might be just my confusion.
>>43682423
>also Left-Handed
If you read it, the Left-Handed part is actually saying "instead of doing it for pleasure, they do it to numb themselves to pleasure, recuriting from self-hating homosexuals, biosexuals and transexuals".
They make the bad thoughts go away.
>>43680026
Something tells me that the symbolic crap is going to be more important this time around. You do realize some people don't enjoy playing on that level, right?
>>43682451
>You do realize some people don't enjoy playing on that level, right?
I would hazard a guess at saying that's not a primary issue for most of their target market.
>>43682451
It's impossible to please everyone.
Nevertheless, it appears the vast majority of fans enjoy the inherent Gnosticism and Platonism of Awakening.
If you like Paradigm and subjective realism, Awakening will obviously not suit your tastes. However, Ascension 20th Anniversary should meet your needs and preferences.
>>43682582
I was more in the market for something else entirely.
>>43682447
>biosexuals
I think we're all biosexuals, Anon.
And I'll be honest, I hadn't actually scrolled down far enough to see the Left-Handed option, and wondered why it listed them under "Offers both options" until pretty much just now. I think that's like an alternate reality version where Ecstatic learned self-hate instead of enlightenment. Looking at it, though, that seems to have been a Keys to the Supernal Tarot thing. The Left-Handed version seems kind of tacked on.
>>43682451
>>43682500
If you don't like "symbolic crap" you're really looking at the wrong game.
>>43682614
Really? Cause I didn't have as many problems when it was all about Atlantis.
>>43682680
How many books in Mage 1e were really focused on Atlantis, though? There was Secrets of the Ruined Temple, which was one of the best books, and maybe some lip service in a bunch of other ones, and that's it. Then again, I'd need to read the entire line to make sure. I might just do that anyways, just cause.
>>43682680
Atlantis itself was a symbol. Most of the things that 2e does to make things more symbolic existed in 1e, they were just bad at it. Yantra are just a combination of Path/Order/Legacy tools as well as Rote Factors. Books like Tom of the Watchtowers and Tome of Mysteries and Sanctum and Sigil are all about symbolism.
Mage has ALWAYS been about symbolism. It was just bad at it.
GodDAMN Legacies look awesome for Mage 2e.
Start at Gnosis 2? Usually don't need rolls to activate? Attainment use can't be an act of Hubris?
Sweeeeet.
>>43682798
Atlantis was a prehistoric or prehuman society what was broken so hard that it broke the world, reality, and it's own history. No symbolism necessary.
As for the tomes and S&S, i don't see it. Tome of the mysteries is a collection of bric-a-brac they couldn't fit in the core, sanctum and sigil is about awakened politics, and I don't have watchtowers but IIRC it was about what kinds of people find themselves on various paths.
>>43682914
But doesn't that ruin Tremere, Echo Walkers, et al?
I thought we were getting a 2e core book in November?
Did they push it back?
>>43682944
>Tome of the mysteries is a collection of bric-a-brac they couldn't fit in the core
Yantras are straight out of Tome of the Mysteries section on Rote Factors. Also, Sanctum and Sigil has rules for "if your group has a theme, you get bonuses" and Tome of the Watchtowers tells all about the symbolism of the Paths and why they use the tools that they use. I haven't read most of the write ups, but I like the fact that the Moros have Hammers as a Path Tool, because Hammers are capable of both destruction (Death) and creation (Matter).
>>43679051
>like how the hell do you play as a mummy or promethues in modern society and not stand out in a horrible way
There are less than a hundred total Prometheans and most of the time they keep moving. They don't stick around long enough to be much more than "That weird drifter who came through right before the big fire broke out."
There aren't a lot of Mummies, either, and they spend a lot of time...well...dead. Their cult does much of the work for them.
>>43682944
No clue, they'll probably have some way of distinguishing left handed legacies from the rest.
>>43676309
So an action isn't automatically an attack?
>>43683004
that's all pretty "blink and you'll miss it" stuff, and i never bothered with theme cabals (which are in core) cause i thought they were stupid. I mean, there was one focused on fucking baseball somewhere. Good for a laugh but don't ask me to take them seriously.
Symbolic Cabals are the Train Enthusiasts of the mage world.
>>43683093
>Train Enthusiasts
If someone managed to find a way to get +1 die to all spells if everyone wore pink frilly dresses...
Most orders would have about 3 in-house tailors.
If it works, and it provides a benefit, Mages will try it.
Symbolic Cabals are just as easy as labeling someone "fire", someone "water" and so forth, and trying to get everyone to act in theme with their element.
>>43683093
>Symbolic Cabals are the Train Enthusiasts of the mage world.
Based on the 2e spoilers, that no longer appears to be the case.
>>43683135
>its a roleplaying game.. inside a role playing game
it's shit. sorry.
>>43683093
>that's all pretty "blink and you'll miss it" stuff
Hence why I said that 1e was bad at it. And just because you didn't pay attention to that stuff doesn't mean that it's how it's meant to work. I mean, every single Legacy is based around reshaping the container of your soul into a particular thematically resonant focus. Whether that focus is BDSM (The Whipping Boys) or being a Sherlock Holmes enthusiast (The Eleventh Question) is completely irrelevant. While you might think that Symbolic Cabals are the "Train Enthusiasts of the Mage world" that's not true at all. Those train fans are closer to enlightenment and more likely to Ascend because they understand that a specific aspect of the Fallen World resonates with the Supernal--or indeed that by resonating with that aspect of the Fallen World one can achieve the Supernal.
>I mean, there was one focused on fucking baseball somewhere.
I'm pretty sure that's from The Warriors, but a proper cabal really is going to look like something out of The Warriors or Saint's Row. Because like >>43683135 says, if everyone could get +1 die to all spells for wearing a frilly pink dress, most Orders would have their own dressmaker. And if symbolism isn't important in Mage 1e, you'd really have to ask yourself why people dress like the way they do on the Silver Ladder cover and the like.
Or why there are lists given of what provides symbolic connections to serve as Order/Path/Legacy Tools. Everyone has certain materials or objects that resonate with their groups for a reason. And every Legacy is highly symbolic and thematic.
>>43683166
It's not a roleplaying game within a roleplaying game, it's understanding that symbolism provides strength. You're playing a MAGE. You call down aspects of a higher reality that are in many ways personal. Having thematic resonance strengthens that connection. And, again, it always has, even if you didn't notice it.
>>43683284
Part 1
I thought 11Q was more broadly focused on finding the truth, which is a broader narrative theme than just "Sherlock Holmes." Whipping boys don't have to be just Homosexuals-only BDSM freaks - anyone with an interest in self-harm, street brawling, or other tests of endurance can get in on the fun.
I get a feeling that in 2e Psychoanalytic Symbolism is going to be the new Atlantis - an Atlantis I will actually have a major problem with.
Part 2
They only get a bonus to group castings that fit their theme. Like I said, train enthusiasts.
And the silver ladder guy, he probably dresses that way because he thinks that's how wizards are supposed to dress. Or those robes have some enchantment on them maybe.
Part 3
If the supernal realms are supposed to be objective truth, then how the fuck is it personal?
>>43683473
I was being casual when I said "Sherlock Holmes enthusiasts", they don't have to be, but they tend to be of that mindset. And the Whipping Boys are all about BDSM. That's their schtick. Yes, self-harm is their focus, but through the lens of BDSM. In fact the entire Legacy is based on BDSM psychology. Every Legacy is similarly built around some specific focus. You don't reshape the container of your soul into a theme unless you're intimate with that theme, whether that theme is piecing together mysteries or the nature of BDSM headspace. A Legacy based around Baseball is finding some way that baseball symbolically and thematically connects to the rest of life and the Supernal. Which, hey, there are already people who feel that way about things:
http://www.katherineingram.com/the-tao-of-baseball/
http://www.amazon.com/Baseball-Entertaining-Thought-Provoking-Commentaries-National/dp/0671704303
http://www.amazon.com/Guidebook-Zen-Art-Motorcycle-Maintenance/dp/0688060692
http://www.amazon.com/The-Maker-Movement-Manifesto-Innovation/dp/0071821120
http://www.amazon.com/Philosophy-Through-Video-Games-Cogburn/dp/0415988586
http://www.sexuality.org/authors/henkin/ls16.html
>They only get a bonus to group castings that fit their theme. Like I said, train enthusiasts.
I'm not sure what you mean by this, really, but again, just because you didn't realize something existed doesn't mean it didn't. Thematic cabals exist because themes and symbolism have power. I don't really understand the trainfan connection because trainfans don't get stronger by being trainfans. It's almost like the "magic comes from obsession" theme of Unknown Armies, but less ridiculous. Being an otaku--or chronic masturbator--doesn't give you power in Awakening, but playing on the themes of such things can. Drawing deeper meaning from the mundane.
I mean, I'm not even saying you're *wrong*. I'm just saying that this has always been the case.
>>43683473
>If the supernal realms are supposed to be objective truth, then how the fuck is it personal?
Because Mage is Gnostic, and there's a difference between truth and Truth.
Whats that OP pic from OP?
>>43683749
See, this is where the Jungian bullshit comes in. Gnosticism doesn't work that way. Neo-Gnosticism, sure, but like i said, that's Jungian bullshit.
>>43683737
Still seems patently ridiculous to me. Obsession a la unknown armies made more sense.
The inability to appreciate a thing for itself, or the need to project some deeper meaning on something you enjoy for it's own sake - that only leads to pretension.
And rule-wise, the bonus only applies to group castings that fit with in their theme, making it of limited value mechanically. Hence, train enthusiasts.
>>43683849
>>43665733
>Mort Kunstler.
>>43683849
>>43665733
>Someone linked it last thread and I found the full size. Mort Kunstler. A lot of his art looks like it would be good.
>>43683852
As far as I'm aware, Truth is subjective in Gnosticism.
>Still seems patently ridiculous to me.
It's a game about magic. Symbolism is incredibly important to magical systems and beliefs throughout history. This is why pentagrams and athame and candles and sigils are used.
You're also underestimating the symbolic strength. It's not just group castings that fit in the theme--which is a thing that *should* have been important, but really wasn't in 1e--and the symbolism goes beyond just thematic cabals. You have Magical Tools that provide bonuses and insulate against paradox, and also grant bonuses. There are also Rote Factors, which provide dice bonuses for invoking Rotes in ways that are thematically resonant with them. "Touch of Midnight", or whatever the rote that allows for shadow manipulation is, gets a dice bonus at midnight.
Hell, this is built right into the Summoning system in Summoners, where having thematically resonant foci lowers the target number needed to summon a creature.
>The inability to appreciate a thing for itself, or the need to project some deeper meaning on something you enjoy for it's own sake - that only leads to pretension.
You're both looking at it the wrong way and failing to understand Mage. If anything, it's understanding that there is deeper meaning in EVERYTHING that drives obsession in the first place.
If you've ever heard someone in a fandom talk about fandoms, you'll have a better grasp on this, but it really extends beyond fandoms. Baseball, BDSM, fandom, motorcycle repair, feminism, communism, academics, religion... these are all things where people can find touches of the Supernal and grasp onto them and gain power through them.
>>43683977
I'm pretty sure that's not how it works, but Mage: the Awakening hangs very heavily on an Objective Truth which is only Percieved Subjectively - the old three blind men and elephant metaphor. Because if Truth really is subjective, we may as well be playing Ascension.
Pentagrams, candles, and athame are not used for their symbolism. That's Jung-talk again. They are used because the practitioner sees them as having inherent power.
And I'll be damned if Critical Theory isn't a product of the Abyss.
>>43683977
>As far as I'm aware, Truth is subjective in Gnosticism.
As far as I'm aware, the exact opposite is the case; Gnostic thinking states that there is a singular cosmic Truth (i.e. God).
This doesn't mean, though, that any human interpretation approaches the Truth, or that any particular single method has a monopoly on finding it.
For Mages, Truth exists as a seemingly objective facet of reality (after all, their magic is real, right?), but it's so grand that their feeble, squishy mortal brains cannot properly comprehend it.
That's what yantras are; mental mnemonics that make it easier to instinctively understand these things. All the gods and goddesses invoked, all the theories of mysticism; it's all just a Mage's best understanding of how things work. Doesn't mean they're wrong, but every explanation is necessarily incomplete (which is definitely not the same thing as being incorrect).
>>43684041
>They are used because the practitioner sees them as having inherent power.
In ascension, this would be a product of belief, and in the new game, a product of imagination. That's the truth hidden behind all the symbolic static - Awakening is the Imagination made manifest.
>>43684041
>>43684050
Truth is subjective, not consensual. When you use magic you're imposing the Truth upon the Lie, but the Truth is malleable and subjective, whereas the Lie is stable and unchanging.
The three blind men feel the elephant, but they're as ignorant of the Truth as the prisoners chained to the Cave and facing the wall, unable to see the Truth.
>Pentagrams, candles, and athame are not used for their symbolism. That's Jung-talk again. They are used because the practitioner sees them as having inherent power.
They have symbolic weight, and if you're of the Diamond you feel they have symbolic weight because humanity filters their symbolism through the Supernal, or if you're Free Council you see the Supernal as being strengthened and created by the Symbols of humanity.
>And I'll be damned if Critical Theory isn't a product of the Abyss.
Just the opposite. Critical Theory is what gets you closer to the Truth and further from the Lie. This is why the magic of the Free Council is just as strong as the Diamond Orders. Because they reject the top-down view that the Supernal creates Symbols upon the Fallen, but they're still capable of understanding that the Supernal is Truth, even if they believe in a bottom-up view that the Fallen creates Symbols upon the Supernal.
So, yes, it's Jungian, but that makes it no less True. The symbols have power because the practitioner sees them as having power.
>For Mages, Truth exists as a seemingly objective facet of reality (after all, their magic is real, right?), but it's so grand that their feeble, squishy mortal brains cannot properly comprehend it.
But again, the One Truth (God or the Supernal) has many facets and realities. In trapping us in this fleshy material prison, the Yaldabaoth cut us off from the reality that we could all be demiurges
>>43684133
But Jung is shit. The focus on symbolism is at best missing the forest for the trees.
>>43684185
The forest is impossible for you to comprehend, and you need analogies like "missing the forest for the trees" because your meat brain and the language that it uses are incompatible with the greater Truth of the world.
>>43684196
Like I said, Pure Imagination is what's behind the symbolic static. That's not too hard to understand.
>>43671576
It's hard to measure. Probably under mages and over almost everything else in their areas of interest.
They can (theoretically) learn any power from any splat, an ability known colloquially known as Endless Nightmare Requests: ST Edition. But it's mitigated pretty heavily by how few tricks they get. Yes, they're going to cherry-pick the very best (or their very favorite) options from various splats with no concerns about buying up prerequisites or having to abide by monster rules, but they're only gonna end up with a small selection. It's more or less manageable. Also, the ST has the right to hardcore veto anything that fucks her game.
But the big one is that they can add five automatic successes to any kind of skill roll and stack some other zany bullshit (they have lots of ways to pick up more dice) on top to boot. A Hero with an interest in combat can put just about anything down instantly with almost no doubt.
Many of their abilities are cool and interesting and they're surprisingly creatively designed, but it's hard to use them traditionally because they go 0 to 100 with very little in-between. By the time they've got a handful of knacks in a skill, they're almost arbitrarily good at using it. The trick is to treat their specialties like semi-freeform and just write your game around the idea that they're always going to succeed wildly any time something's within their forte.
>>43684133
>Truth is subjective, not consensual.
>Three blind men and the elephant
But the analogy you reference is explicitly stating that Truth is not subjective; merely that an individual can have a correct and simultaneously inaccurate assessment of it based on their limited perspective. The Truth is objective, people's observances of it are subjective experiences.
>>43684228
?
>>43671576
>>43684262
Honestly? I think the Dark Heroes section is crap, and the person who wrote it didn't really give it enough thought. It's not that it's super playable or amazing, it's that the abilities are so wildly unusual that they clearly didn't have any sort of playtesting or second thoughts. It reads like a person who doesn't know the game making a homebrew template. Half the things they can do feel sort of thrown in or tacked on, as if the person who made them didn't really have a good grasp of what makes a good template.
But that's true of almost every 1e blue book, and probably going to be true of most of the 2e ones. And the further things get from Core, the more likely they were to be wonky and weird as well in 1e.
>>43684308
Well, yes, but in Mage you're not feeling the elephant you're reshaping Reality to create the elephant.
>>43682408
Same thought here. I mean, flagellation has a long history, and I think focusing on the BDSM aspect exclusively kind of hamstrings the legacy.
>>43684439
Why? There's a *lot* of psychology tied to proper BDSM. It's a lot more than just "being whipped turns me on". In fact, a lot of proper BDSM sessions are actually completely sex free, although they are heavily sexualized. The concept behind the Legacy is tied into those aspects that go beyond simple flagellation.
"Head space" is an almost distinctively BDSM culture aspect of flagellation that comes not as a result of flagellation itself, but of the submissive aspects of it. The BDSM focus doesn't hamstring the Legacy, it strengthens it and gives it a powerful lens through which to view the world, especially regarding the Supernal.
It just happens to do it in a way that you don't particularly like or feel comfortable with. It's perfect for Mage's meta-theme, though.
>>43684430
That's the thing, though: You're not reshaping reality to create the elephant; you're using the elephant to kick reality into a new shape. When Mages cast a spell, they're calling down/channeling/invoking/etc. Supernal power/law/whatever. However you choose to describe it, they're calling upon the Supernal for their spellery.
The Supernal is Truth. Magic is wielding the Truth like a cudgel on a reality for which Truth is the substrate; Aquinas's God poking you in the eye, as it were.
>>43684439
I guess what I'm saying is that it would make sense if the Whipping Boys were a Free Council Legacy focusing on BDSM culture, but if they're going to be an Obrimos legacy, I'd expect more focus on the ecstatic side and less on the BDSM side.
>>43684542
Why? I mean, I don't really understand that. Maybe it's because I've looked into BDSM culture and listened to people talk about it, but it makes complete sense to me. Plus, "Obrimos=Religious" is a thing that isn't inherently true, and they're trying to make that clearer in 2e.
>>43684469
Actually, now that I read the legacy write up again, there doesn't seem to be much focus on BDSM at all. It says that it never involves sex, and the goal is sensory overload through pleasure or pain. It doesn't mention anything about domination.
That makes perfect sense to me, and would seem to indicate that the BDSM angle is more of an aesthetic than anything substantial.
I don't have a problem with a BDSM legacy. I have a problem with the only flagellant legacy in the entire series being a BDSM legacy, and not exploring any other aspects of flagellation. That doesn't seem to be the case though, so whatever.
>>43684624
Because it's the Free Council that would focus on the culture for culture's sake. That's their whole shtick.
I would expect diamond obrimoi to care more about the altered state of consciousness, and not necessarily care about BDSM culture itself.
Hey, Strix guy again. This is the passage my GM is using. His logic is "since various abilities affect demons and ghosts, etc. then it shouldn't effect strix." We're claiming that it means specifically applies.
>>43684812
>Strix are so super special snowflake they get their own unique kind of Twilight that makes them immune to everything
Fucking bullshit
>>43684827
But would non-offensive spells effect them? Like curses, or sin-eater abilities?
>>43665088
I mean, yeah. Do you see anything else in the room he could possibly have sex with?
>>43684691
They're still pretty wrapped up in the BDSM and queer culture, though. The whole thing is based around headspace. Being part of a Session and being abused and assaulted and degraded and flagellated is what brings them enlightenment.
Also, servitude is one of their potential Oblations.
>>43684729
The Whipping Boys are a primarily Adamantine Arrow Legacy, with Free Council as secondary.
> The Free Council doesn't always get the philosophical side right away, but being the order most closely tied in to modern Sleeper society, they often have a better sense of the culture from which the Legacy came. The order itself doesn't have any problem with the Whipping Boys, and more mages from the Legacy come from this order than any other, apart from the Arrow.
>>43684812
I think it means "if it specifically is for dealing with one of those things, it doesn't affect Strix, because they're not ghosts or demons or spirits".
>>43684827
In 2e everything has it's own form of Twilight. Ghosts, Spirits, Angels, and Strix are all in separate Twilights, and can't see or interact with each other. Likewise, something that affects ghosts doesn't affect spirits and so on.
>>43684855
>Likewise, something that affects ghosts doesn't affect spirits and so on.
Like what?
>>43684855
Thank you! That's what I've been saying. I think my story teller likes the Strix waaaaay to much. I think they're cool, but he's trying to make them invincible or something.
>>43671442
Also consider Dead Like Me
>>43684860
Like... anything that affects ghosts?
If you have a power that says "you can command Ghosts", it doesn't also let you command Spirits. If you have a power that lets you deal damage to ghosts, it doesn't let you deal damage to Spirits (I think the one exception is Blessed objects, which will whack anything in Twilight period).
A spell like Touch of the Grave doesn't let you mess with Spirits, just Ghosts.
>>43684863
What specifically are you trying to do?
>>43684871
Use Grave-dirt Rage to lower it's willpower. And use spells to give it penalties.
>>43684855
>Being part of a Session and being abused and assaulted and degraded and flagellated is what brings them enlightenment.
All it says in the writeup is that their enlightenment comes from pain, injury, and sensory overload. I don't see anything about the domination aspect.
>He realized that the sensation the body could endure had limits, but that once those limits were surpassed — not just surpassed, but ignored — the mind could be free, even for a short while.
>He called on an acquaintance, a Mastigos named Minerva, and asked her to hurt him and not to stop for any reason. Minerva combined magic with her ministrations, and the experience very nearly killed Ecstatic. But hours later, he lay there bleeding once again… and rose, wounds healing, feeling stronger than ever.
>“Session” is the rather euphemistic title the Legacy uses for its hours-long ordeals of sensory overload. Although pain is a large part of it, Whipping Boys also use pleasurable stimulus (though never actual sex) to bring the supplicant into the desired state. Different members of the Legacy employ different methods — electricity, fire, cutting, whipping, pin-pricks and extremes of cold and heat are all possibilities
>>43684812
If something specifically effects a ghost, spirit, demon etc, it won't work on a strix.
If it's something more general (Like TFV's Etheric Rounds working on "any incorporeal being"), it works. That's how i'd rule that.
>>43679194
Nah, this week we get our second drafts in for The Pack.
>>43684955
>I don't see anything about the domination aspect.
>Suggested Oblations: Performing or undergoing a Session, wrestling, sex, meditation, cleaning and preparing tools for a Session, fighting (sparring or an actual brawl), sensory deprivation, servitude (being at another's beck and call for the length of the oblation).
It's subspace
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=subspace
As an aside, I don't see why a Legacy like this is Path locked.
>>43685073
Well good news, in 2e so long as you have one of the attainments as a praxis, you can enter into any legacy you like, and the exp cost of the praxis is refunded.
>>43685087
Neato. I can be a spooky Moros BDSM expert, because Moros is the coolest path.
I suppose the reason I'm so, Iunno, "defensive" about the Whipping Boys is because they're probably my favourite Legacy. Not because I'd ever really want to make a character in that Legacy--one of my problems with Legacies is wanting to play a character that's dedicated to anything to such a degree--but because BDSM culture is one of those things that I'm not part of but it really fascinates me, and I feel like using it as a path to enlightenment is a great example of how Legacies and Mage stuff doesn't need to be so old fashioned.
The other relatively new (1950s-ish) thing I think would make a really good Legacy concept is fandoms. I've never been so in love with something that I'd want to get a tattoo of it (although maybe WoD is my fandom) or make my wedding themed to it, or anything like that, but that sort of obsession and love and the way fans create fanwork and obsess over details looking for meaning, that's pretty cool. More than that, though, is the cultures that seem to spring up (even if a lot of them are shitty and elitist). I've heard a lot of stories about fandoms really helping people and turn their lives around. That's something I wish resonated with me more. I have a friend who says that if he ever can go three months without feeling suicidal, he'll get a tattoo of a line from a song by one of his favourite bands (meWithoutYou? The Mountain Goats? La Dispute? Some hipster thing), "It's been three months since I thought about killing myself". Finding strength in cultural works that most people treat like popcorn seems like a very Mage thing to do.
Don't know how you could accomplish an "all fandoms" sort of Legacy, though...
But then again I think that a Baseball Legacy would be perfectly fitting.
>>43684812
Right, I don't know what splat you guys are, but Death magic would work on Strix. Sure, not magic aimed for life stealing not-living things.... but Shadow manipulation? Right there:
>The Strix are, on some level, shadows. Powers that effect shadows can be used to effect the strix if they beat the owls resistance.
And would you look at that, Death arcana covers shadows, too.
Let's list things useful for not upsetting our Sleeper friends and keeping our lives happy and paradox-free.
I'll start, please excuse the excessive focus on combat but trying to keep a Cabal alive is hard work.
Smoke grenades: Can't Disbelief what you can't see, and once it clears it's fairly easy to justify your not-being-thereness in case you needed to vanish. Especially great if you are one of these people who require shadow (hey I'm not judging) for your powers.
Spray cans and lighters: In a pinch, few things are as believable as hooligans setting hairspray cans on fire, and nobody's going to question a burning building.
Boomerangs: Even in the age of the internet pretty much everyone is egregiously badly informed about how these things are supposed to work, and pop culture is making sure it stays that way.
Grappling hooks. You know how well these work? No? Do I? No. Fuck you, get a grappling hook.
Tophat, suit, white gloves, black pants: Don't abuse it, but if worst comes to worse it's decently effective to be a Mage by being a mage.
Finally, if your finances allow it you should acquire Vellum and make a tome containing A Midsummer Night's Dream translated to Enochian.
Anyone got something else?
>>43685615
I keep a pocket in my coat full of pamphlets for a community-run mental health support group.
I burn through those things like dollar bills.
>>43682376
I'm pretty sure you got rused there, anon.
Which splat fulfills the following conditions:
-Has use of money
-Fairly dependable if you don't try to screw them over
-Have the ability to supernaturally enforce promises between two parties
?
I ask because I'm trying to assemble a Hunter campaign and would like an NPC ally that allows various cells to broker agreements with one another.
>>43685788
Mages?
>Bob the Builder is a Tamer of Stone
I love this fucking game
>>43685615
>it's fairly easy to justify your not-being-thereness in case you needed to vanish
In nWoD you don't need to "justify" anything. If a Sleeper sees you vanish, the Abyssal shard inside of their soul causes Paradox, making your spell "Vulgar", and smoke bombs will help with that, but there's no need to "justify" being gone. Disbelief will never "undo" your spell and return you to where you were. It only unravels long term spells. As long as you can overcome the Disbelief you can teleport a Sleeper a thousand miles away. It won't ctrl+z or anything.
But even then, almost everything you said is wrong. That's not how Covert and Vulgar work in 1e. You can't just toss a spray can around and "oh, looks like the building burned itself down". If you burn a building down, a fire inspector isn't going to somehow unravel the spell and UNburn the building because the cause is suspicious. Likewise, you don't need to carry a spray can because your Fireball spell is not going to be Disbelieved; it's instant, not prolonged.
You can't just make a boomerang or a grappling hook and break physics. I mean, yes, you can avoid improbability by making things look like they work how they should, but whether someone has seen a hundred cartoon or video game boomerangs, they'll still know something is up if it comes back after hitting something.
>Tophat, suit, white gloves, black pants: Don't abuse it, but if worst comes to worse it's decently effective to be a Mage by being a mage.
No "worse comes to worse"; that's actually a valid Magical Tradition. But Magical Traditions only help with certain spells, not just anything.
>Finally, if your finances allow it you should acquire Vellum and make a tome containing A Midsummer Night's Dream translated to Enochian.
This does nothing but make you look like an idiot.
>>43685730
That also does nothing. Except maybe provide some small help for the victims whose Integrities are frayed by your reckless use of magic.
>>43685862
Meanwhile pic related.
>>43685788
>>43685797
Mage/Changeling/Demon/Demon/Demon/Demon
Pretty much any type of demon, really.
Also, you're the ST and they're playing Hunter, so literally anything you want, including an X-Man.
>>43685788
Changelings, Demons (from Inferno or Descent), and Mages are all obvious picks.
You could also use an Immortal that has access to a particular sort of artifact - like a pen he got from a True Fae that lets him bind contracts with the Wyrd. Immortals, usually, have little to fear from hunters - a blood bather might, if he's unprepared to fight and lacks regeneration abilities. But if he you build one right, a blood-bather can heal as quickly as a werewolf and have 9 dots of strength right out the gate, while only needing to bathe in the blood of one human twice a year. You up the amount of blood he needs? You can get his strength to 12 or 14 easy kek. Or maybe his stamina, if you want him to be able to take a shit ton of punishment.
Immortals also tend to have very high resources and be very old. When you put those together in the world of darkness, you almost always have a guy with multiple powerful allies and favors to call in.
>>43685987
I have fond memories of using the 'Your attacks do lethal damage' from Force on a gun and shooting vampires.
What? Shooting a person is lethal, it would be weird to think otherwise.
>>43686169
You have fond memories of doing something that isn't necessary?
Even if nWoD worked the same way that oWoD did and reality was consensual, vampires don't count. They're not Sleepers. You can cast the most Vulgar spell imaginable and they won't do anything to your spell.
And again, Paradox does not work the way that you seem to think it does. Sleepers add +2 to the Paradox roll and make all spells they witness Vulgar. This isn't because Disbelief is a product of consensual reality, it's because Disbelief is a product of the Abyss resting inside of a Sleeping Soul. It doesn't matter if the Sleeper even realizes something is vulgar or not, it matters whether the Abyss does. You can't just say "oh, it's a guy in a costume" because the Abyss isn't an idiot. And Disbelief happens the moment someone witnesses Vulgar magic, so you don't get to make excuses to stop it from happening.
Shouting "there must have been a gas leak!" after making an explosion doesn't change the fact that to make the explosion you needed to deal with +2 to the Paradox roll.
>>43682376
>>43682423
They're not. We only had room for one Legacy in core (still better than Vampire and Werewolf!) and we went for the Eleventh Question.
I am already halfway through converting the Whipping Boys to second ed, though, as a major NPC in my Chronicle is one.
For... Uh... Reasons... You will probably find that Legacies get converted and put up on the blog depending on when I or the other authors need them for our own games. But I'm gonna try to get at least a full set of one-per-Path done.
In other Mage-related news, I'm reading the draft of Signs of Sorcery.
>>43686238
>You have fond memories of doing something that isn't necessary?
It is necessary. How else is your gun going to do lethal damage?
>>43685987
>If a Sleeper sees you vanish
Which is exactly what this prevents.
> Disbelief will never "undo" your spell and return you to where you were.
Yes, but Guardians will get their panties in a twist if you keep making half-misses.
> Likewise, you don't need to carry a spray can because your Fireball spell is not going to be Disbelieved; it's instant, not prolonged.
Yes, but tossing fireballs around does cause Paradox if seen for the reasons you yourself elaborated.
>they'll still know something is up if it comes back after hitting something.
Ah sorry, that was one of the few non-combat things. It's quite useful for checking whether an area is somehow warded or such.
>This does nothing but make you look like an idiot.
That's kinda the point when Hunters come a-knocking.
>>43686369
Care to share?
>>43686439
>Yes, but tossing fireballs around does cause Paradox if seen for the reasons you yourself elaborated.
In 1e it causes Paradox even if you aren't seen.
>>43684900
Easily. And you can use Awakened magic to rip it apart.
Strix are pretty much EXACTLY the same thing as Death/Spirit Shadow Slaves.
Would "I wish to ensure my Legacy's survival" be a strong enough reason for a Mage Ghost to remain after a Mage dies?
Also. Won't Mage Ghosts with Death be extremely dangerous creatures?
Finally, can mages become other ephemeral things? Like spirits or astral beings?
>>43686645
> Mages who become Ephemeral Entities have always been a bit of a grey area rules-wise, other than "model a few of their favorite rotes as custom Numina". We hope to delve into the subject at some point in 2e's line.
> Finally, can mages become other ephemeral things? Like spirits or astral beings?
Yes, and yes. There's already one canon Legacy who turn into spirits, and Astral former-mages (which are called Morpheans) are in Astral Realms. One of our 2e signature characters is even a Morphean - Baphomet hasn't been alive since the crusades, but s/he is still kicking around the Temenos.
>>43686369
>In other Mage-related news, I'm reading the draft of Signs of Sorcery.
Obligatory request for spoilers... :)
>>43686704
>Baphomet
>s/he
I knew you had a transgender/genderless canon character, but I was unaware they were a hermaphrodite goat demon.
Would a blood bather that has the Quick Healer merit, the Quick Healer effect as part of his ritual, and the Regeneration effect as part of his ritual, regain health at 1/8th the speed of a normal human, or 1/16th?
Quick Healer halves it
Quick Healer halves it again
Regeneration reduces it to 1/4th of what it was
If you regained health in 1/16th the time of a normal human, how fast would that be mechanically speaking?
>>43686784
>how fast would that be mechanically speaking?
pretty fast.
>>43686729
"S/he is a mind, a mistranslation, something between ghost, archmage, and demon. Baphomet doesn’t remember her/his original gender, but such things were unimportant in a leper colony outside Jerusalem, 900 years ago. S/he Awakened during the First Crusade, and made religious hate and misunderstanding into a devil — the Shadow Name “Baphomet” descends from an early spelling of Mohammed by Templars. S/he became a Master of Mind and Space, but her/his body began to fail him/her. S/he abandoned it to become her/his goetic demon, and live in the minds of Templars, priests, Satanists, and occultists. Baphomet still haunts dreams and fortified domains in the Astral reaches, though s/he struggles with the archetypal Devil itself, who would reduce the bodiless dream sorcerer into a slave or appendage."
>>43686796
Actually I just checked and it'd probably be faster than that
Regeneration alone makes you heal 1 lethal every 15 minutes, and an agg per day
So, probably 4 bashing/2 lethal every round, and 1 agg every 8 hours (about 3 per day)?
>>43686784
I think it's be so fast that you might as well not track anything less than 4 or 5 bashing damage at a time, if I have my math right.
>>43686850
Look, if you name yourself Baphomet you really ought to look like this.
>All those "s/he"s and "his/her"s
Why are people so averse to using singular They?
>>43686895
Plural They is still popular and there's no style guide as of yet that accepts Singular They. Enough causal use might change things, but for now the standard procedure is to try to write your sentence so that you never need to mention a gender at all, at least in CMS style. Onyx Path's style guide might be different, but probably not too different.
>>43686895
>Why are people so averse to using singular They?
because, to the spasmchasms on tumblr anyway, it implies that, to them, you aren't acknowledging their status as someone who identifies as a butchandrogyne demiqueer transsiberian airport.
>>43686895
>Why are people so averse to using singular They?
the terrorists won
>>43686369
I know they're your favorite legacy (they're in my top 10) but wouldn't it have been better to use a "universal" legacy than one limited by path or order?
>>43686369
All the rules for creating (or converting 1e) Legacies are going to be in Core though, right?
>>43686645
>>43686704
Fuck yea, Scions of God - one of those legacies I've never gotten to play but have always wanted to.
>>43687014
Wouldn't that just be Scelesti? I honestly can't think of a more universal Legacy.
>>43686928
That's bullshit. Not "it's bullshit that people think that way", I mean it's bullshit that you think people think that way. They don't. Most of those people who don't use singular they? They're the result of English teachers being WRONG, just like they're wrong about how a preposition is an improper thing to end a sentence with.
>>43686921
Singular they is hundreds of years old. English teachers are just repeating rules of grammar they were taught that happened to be made up by idiots.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singular_they
http://blog.oxforddictionaries.com/2011/11/grammar-myths-prepositions/
>>43686961
Ain't that the truth.
>>43687116
>I mean it's bullshit that you think people think that way. They don't.
fairy nuff.
>>43684185
We get it, you don't like Jung.
I think Theme Cabals are limiting for players too; our ST made us pick cabal roles, it lasted for a session and was a huge waste of time.
If the idea that Mages see the Supernal in Fallen stuff is that abhorrent to you, just ignore it.
>>43687116
I'm aware of how old it is and how arbitrary language is. I use singular they all the time in daily speech. That won't stop it from not being grammatically correct in our lifetime. When it's time to write something, I know I have to follow the rules, even if the rules aren't based in logic. If English was based on things that made sense, it'd be a vastly different language.
>>43687329
>That won't stop it from not being grammatically correct in our lifetime.
It is grammatically correct, though.
>I know I have to follow the rules
No you don't. That's how you never Awaken.
>>43687306
Damn right I don't like Jung. I despise psychoanalysis in general.
I don't mind the characters seeing supernal in the fallen. I just don't care for the way they're supposed to see it.
>>43687567
Show me a style guide that allows for it, and I'll complain and grumble because I'm not bound to those. I could write all the singular they I want, but that won't stop a proofreader from making it "he or she" or "he/she". For now, it's not going to be grammatically correct where it matters, because it's not about being right, it's about what the people who write the textbooks think is right, and even with white hit advocacy, it'll probably still take a half century to change those.
>>43687594
Mage always seems like it'd mesh more with a Rogerian psychological perspective anyways.
wod books pdf
changeling
beast
old printouts lost, google came here but not found. halp? [email protected]
>>43687649
"He/she" or "he or she" is frankly worse. Also, you can just tell the proofreader not to correct certain things. It's not that hard. Otherwise neologisms would constantly get corrected. This might surprise you but the Chicago Manual of Style is not an oppressive God-Machine ready to send it's Angels out to destroy you if you fail to abide by it.
>>43687792
use your words big guy.
>>43687792
>>43687813
>use your words big guy.
Grandma is trying to learn RPGs.
>>43687804
A professional publication would like to stick to its style guide whenever possible. When you are paid to write for money, you don't get to pick and choose how you will use your grammar.
>>43686895
I have fought and lost this battle many times, Anon.
>>43686369
>One per Path
>Moros get awesome super-detectives in a game about mystery and investigation
>Obrimos get superpowered BDSM freaks
>>43688226
He didn't say "one per Path", he said "one".
Also, Eleventh Question isn't Moros, it's Guardians of the Veil.
>>43688226
I thought 11q could be any path as long as they were guardians
>>43686850
All this his/her (and to a lesser extent s/he) makes this passage read really awkwardly.
>>43688242
>But I'm gonna try to get at least a full set of one-per-Path done.
>>43688281
>at least
>>43686369
Dreamspeakers when?
Anons, you have to remember that the Order/Path affiliations of the legacies are political, or born of traditions.
Legacies aren't like Vampire's Bloodlines, where if you aren't a Mekhet, you can forget about becoming a Khaibit.
If you want to join a Legacie who isn't associated with either your Order or your own Path, you can, you just gotta get creative about it: you could just try to convince your prospective mentor that you are such a devoted student that going against tradition is going to be worth it, you could try to impress them in some way, make them pay off a debt of service to you with their teachings, or if you're feeling a bit Left-Handed you could try to steal their soulstones if they have any, or even their own souls, because it's possible to learn attainments from both of those.
>>43688281
He means on the blog.
>>43688438
Actually, until 2e that's exactly how it was. If you weren't of the right path you couldn't be of the Legacy.
Technically speaking you couldn't be of the Legacy if you were in the wrong Order, for something like the Eleventh Question, but what happens if you switch Paths was never covered.
>>43688465
Not true, because the "learn the attainments from the soulstone of the mage" is valid in 1e as well.
>>43686369
Dave, please, please get Blank Badges converted ASAP. Most of the others we can probably figure out, but since they don't use an arcana they'll probably be kind of tricky.
Also, are their rules about a character who joins a legacy that has inferior arcana as it's chosen arcana? I've house-ruled that they acquire a different arcana as inferior
As it is, i've also house-ruled Fate as the Mastigos inferior arcana, because it makes more sense than Matter - also, I needed an anti-demense that would challenge an Acanthus-heavy party
>>43688281
And then he said later that he could only get Eleventh Question into the book, and will probably post stuff he converts personally on his blog.
>>43688523
>Also, are their rules about a character who joins a legacy that has inferior arcana as it's chosen arcana? I've house-ruled that they acquire a different arcana as inferior
They don't have an Inferior if they join a Legacy that gets the Inferior as a new Ruling Arcana.
So if you're a Thyrsus that gets Mind as a new Ruling? You have three Ruling and no Inferior Arcana.
>>43688465
>He means on the blog.
I know that. Or are Moros going to get an extra one?
>>43688465
>Actually, until 2e that's exactly how it was. If you weren't of the right path you couldn't be of the Legacy.
>Technically speaking you couldn't be of the Legacy if you were in the wrong Order, for something like the Eleventh Question, but what happens if you switch Paths was never covered.
Wrong. You've always been able to join a Legacy you don't match up with in either Path or Order, it just results in a loss of Status for the Mentor in 1e. This isn't a problem if you go the soul stone or daimonomikon route, either.
>>43688632
>They don't have an Inferior if they join a Legacy that gets the Inferior as a new Ruling Arcana.
>So if you're a Thyrsus that gets Mind as a new Ruling? You have three Ruling and no Inferior Arcana.
There are also several Acanthus Legacies that grant Forces in the books, because Acanthus weren't OP enough already.
I know we're all talking about Mage, but I'm getting so hype over nWoD 2e core that I can't stand it. I hope Paradox approves of it soon.
>>43689008
I feel ya, mang.
>>43688778
which is why fate should be a mastigos inferior. at the very least there should be a hard counter to fate-dickery somehwere
>>43689136
They specifically didn't make anything that gave metamagic effects anyone's Inferior. Fate grants Target Exemption, Conditional Duration, AND Unfettered.
And Acanthus are way better at Fate Dickery than Mastigos. Time and Fate synergize in horrifying ways.
