I keep dropping the ball on making new threads.
No new information to report in terms of Mage's release or Paradox's plans.
I'm going to hesitantly make the topic of today's thread Supernatural Terrorism, in light of the events going down in France. WoD is often known for (mis)handling such weighty subjects, and I'm curious how they've shown up in your games. Have you had Sabbat suicide bombers? Has anyone tried to break the Masquerade or anything like that just to deal with an enemy?
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Last thread >>43607245
>>43629959
I've seen suicide bomber Hunters trying to kill massed meetings of supernaturals.
I've also once had a group have to resort to disguising their own bombing of a vampire meeting as a terrorist attack. Turns out the building had no gas pipelines which could be blamed for their Gas-Bomb, and an odd dozen innocent bystanders died as a result when the explosion was of a greater magnitude than they intended.
I've had stigmatic techno-terrorists in my Demon game. I kind of stole it a bit from the Smiling Faces from Killer 7 mixed with body modification. They target churches, museums, monuments, etc. Anything tied to the past, to history. Erase our connection to the past and all that remains is to embrace the future.
Just think what just one proficient Acanthus mage could do prevent terrorism, or the destruction that could be caused by just one proficient Obrimos (and virtually no one would be able to recall it was magic).
If supernaturals engaged in major terrorism, or were heavily involved in law enforcement, security and the military, either terrorism would be greatly curtailed or far more bloody.
>>43630197
The way I always figure, for every Acanthus trying to prevent such bad shit, there is at least one other trying to make it happen.
Ethnic war now
Are all claimed like... horrible?
Right they're people possessed by spirits but is each and everyone terrible; like some nurse possessed by a spirit of Joy?
>>43631362
Even too much Joy can be bad, since it's Joy to the exclusion of all other emotion. That said, Claimed aren't necessarily evil all the time. There's an example in one of the books of a woman Claimed by a spirit of (I believe) Knowledge, who can serve as fair weather ally.
>>43631362
No more horrible than the Spirit that's claimed them.
Sometimes you won't be able to tell the difference.
A Dog claimed by a Spirit of Dogs will be very Dog.
>>43631402
I'm just wondering, I can't remember all the lore that I've read. That and it wouldn't make sense to go on and on about the friendly Claimed werewolves run into-- their job is to police the worlds. Odds are they mostly run into the most rule-breaking spirits.
>>43631420
Good lord, that dog would be unstoppable, though. How could you resist the need to pet it, or to throw it scraps from your table?
>>43631420
I actually had an NPC that was a corpse Claimed by the spirit of a dog's ghost.
>>43631513
Well if it was a Chihuahua it would be easy; those are some of the most annoying, ugly, unlovable rats out there.
>>43631513
No clue, but I've just decided to include "The Good Boy" in my game.
>>43631537
>spirit of a ghost.
That can happen?
>>43627456
>>liberal
>>not an SJW
>that's not how it works, according to the internet.
You do realize that most of the anti-SJW crowd are themselves left-leaning right? Just check out this demographic survery from TumblrInAction, aka anti-SJW central.
http://i.imgur.com/495qKqG.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/ARHhguh.png
https://www.reddit.com/r/TumblrInAction/comments/25r5am/tia_demographics_survey_results_are_in_was_tumblr/
>>43631589
Er... it was a dog's ghost, I mean.
Technically it was a Revenant, but I was already playing fast and loose, and it was mechanically closer to a Claimed with a Ban.
>>43631611
I actually saw a similar--slightly more professional--survey that said despite GGers claiming they were liberal, a lot of them had rather conservative ideals. It's also important to note that being in favour of legal changes doesn't actually mean you're in favour of the social change, which is especially telling since many posts on r/TiA are highly skeptical of any minority voice that criticizes "common wisdom", and a lot of them are taken out of context as well. I won't mention any such things, because that tends to start arguments.But once again I overestimated 4chan and should have ended that post in /sarcasm
>>43631562
Werewolf pack with the Totem of the Good Boy. Now that's a pack I can get behind. Would totally be the unknown Mortal member of that pack.
>>43631697
>many posts on r/TiA are highly skeptical of any minority voice that criticizes "common wisdom"
>implying any anon who says they're a minority actually is.
>>43631730
The Good Boy belongs in any game
Do they ever explain how vampires are exactly supposed to teach disciplines to others?
>>43631944
I can't follow your argument whatsoever. You said that it's wrong to be "highly skeptical" of self-proclaimed minorities on the internet because it somehow means you're against social change.
>I implied no such thing. There are plenty of people who are minorities that people on the internet will criticize for being too radical.
What does that have to do with anything?
> Hell, there are white people that the internet will criticize for having radical views on race or gender or sexuality.
How is that connected at all with what you said before?
>Usually things that imply people are racist for saying something or holding a belief that isn't actively harmful but is still shitty and biased.
Like?
>No one likes to be called racist,
No shit. Being called racist means your life is over and you'll probably never get a job again like what happened to Tim Hunt.
>but people seem to think you're either a 100% hippy liberal who is completely colourblind for reals or you're a swastika waving KKK member.
I have no idea what you're talking about.
>>43632103
I deleted the comment because the thread doesn't need this.
>>43632073
Not in any detail, at least to my knowledge. The blood magic rituals are easy enough to imagine learning, but some disciplines seem like they'd be silly to teach. All I can imagine is one Vampire chasing another with a car at 60 miles per hour trying to run them over. If they manage to outrun the car, they've learned the first dot of Celerity.
>>43630197
>If supernaturals engaged in major terrorism,
Demons in my mind are basically THE terrorist spat. Think about it. Most Demon problems ultimately involve things that require blowing up, and unlike cWerewolf's eco-terror that's actually a fairly productive endeavor.
>>43631362
>>43631402
It's funny, because my Werewolf game(Ruben and the Condiments/that group with the Ithaeur who went death rage in a crowded room) has met a Joy Claimed woman going by Joy. She has eyes, and hair, and teeth, and clothes, etc, and is all around a really peppy chick, and harbors no ill will towards us, so we let her live.
It helps that we don't have a Storm Lord, though.
>>43632394
>"Yer gonna spit nails lick! Like the guy says yer gonna diablerize elders and yer gonna crap ancilla!"
>>43633207
>She has eyes, and hair, and teeth, and clothes, etc
I meant blue eyes, hair, etc
She's very blue, despite being claimed by joy.
According to her, the woman she claimed was on the cusp of dying from an ecstasy overdose, anyways.
>>43632394
Can't imagine any discipline for which that wouldn't be hilarious to watch.
Pic somewhat related.
>>43633308
Dominate is probably just running around and screaming one word commands at people until it sticks.
So is it just me or is the Mastigos section of the ToW like 90% literal penises?
>>43634263
>literal
Nope.
I remember Tome of the Watchtowers being not all that great. Didn't it talk abut how Thyrsus were super into orgies and stuff like that?
>>43634373
No I mean it's actually referring to things that are, represent, or are connected to genitalia. Specifically penises.
The entire chapter is very sexual with most of the imagery being phallic instead of yonic.
What's someone who doesn't want to play a sexual Mastigos supposed to do?
>>43634429
Yep, plus their myth states their Oracle was seduced into creating the Primal Wild, then hunted and cannibalized the man she'd fucked, his bones turning into the Watchtower.
>>43634470
>Watchtower made of bones
>Thyrsus
Someone confused Thyrsus and Moros, it sounds like.
>>43634470
What?
I thought there was no real explanations of the Oracles.
>>43634492
You act like bones aren't a nature thing. A skull is right there on the Thrysus logo.
>>43634492
"The high cliff trembled and moaned. The violent ocean below churned the brine into a salty white foam. A raging, black basalt phallus shot up from the soft mat of grass where the savage queen had arranged her young lover’s bones, and immediately began pulsing with a primal yearning, a call more alluring than the cry of wounded prey, more enticing than a lover’s warm promise. The tower’s call was strong enough to reach across even the yawning Abyss, to call mages to the Primal Wild."
Okay, so maybe not "made" of his bones.
>>43634057
Read the nWoD fiction. It has an example of a vamp learning out of clan Obfuscate.
>>43634513
Did you read Tome of the Watchtowers? Every Oracle and Watchtower gets a "commonly accepted" origin story.
>>43634513
>I thought there was no real explanations of the Oracles.
Tome of the Watchtowers states some of the myths surrounding the creation of the Watchtowers.
The Moros one for example involved the Oracle committing suicide so that she could come to final realization of the nature of Death and perceive the Watchtower that had always, inevitably, existed.
>>43634513
Feels like a watchtower made by the bones of a cannibalized dead guy would fit Moros more, though.
Thrysus should be flesh, bones of animals or people who died naturally, or plants, I think.
>>43634526
Which story? As much as I like imagining humorous Discipline learning situations, I'm down for a serious example. I've also got a hankering for more nWoD fiction in general, so.
>>43634538
Nope, I hadn't.
>>43634539
So how does all that work? I thought the Oracles were basically the people who were... Good Exarchs, I guess. Who upon ascending the Supernal Ladder and seeing others try to take power for themselves and become Gods while keeping everyone else down, they chose to light the way for everyone else.
>>43634561
Eh. >>43634525 sounds pretty Thrysus.
>>43634525
>A raging, black basalt phallus shot
So, in reality, the Thyrsus watchtower is a giant basalt dick
Nice
>>43634566
A Blood Like Fire I do believe. First in a trilogy.
>>43634574
>So how does all that work?
We have no clue.
Even Imperial Mysteries doesn't go into detail about the Watchtowers.
More than to state the Oracles probably no longer exist within reality.
>>43634581
Or perhaps it is A Hunger Like Fire?
>>43634579
Not just that, it's "pulsing with a primal yearning".
That's right.
According to that myth, every Thyrsus writes their name on a gigantic throbbing dick.
>>43634617
To be fair most of them are writing on that dick with blood, semen, shit, or even tears. Thrysus are NASTY. Half of them don't even wear gloves when they do all that stuff.
>>43634525
>>43634574
>>43634579
>>43634617
Perfect.
>>43634615
>>43634638
Jinx. Jesus, same filename, too.
>>43634579
As is the Mastigos watchtower
>>43634645
Both were me, I meant to spoiler the first one and then >>43634617 posted so I added it to the referenced posts in my repost
>>43634525
Nah, it's made of his "bone".
I can't tell of the Tome of Watchtowers is edgy or magical realm
>>43634719
Well, it's nMage. So...both?
>>43634719
I feel like it's silly to avoid sexuality, since throughout history that's been strongly connected to magic.
But at the same time when doing something like this you've really got to limit yourself or it comes off as way too much, because sexuality stands out.
Alternately the writer could be like Alan Moore, and a half-crazy occultist.
>>43634719
A Mage can say "ladies, please contain your orgasms" and mean it.
>>43634849
>>43634824
It just baffles me.
That's a nimbus.
Who would decide that that is the direction they want the scene to go every time they cast vulgar magic?
How could you pick that and not be in an ERP game?
>>43634881
I could totally see someone picking that up just for the humor of "haha my magics made you come". I mean, that's not great either but it's at least one non-sexy reason.
>>43634881
Well, there's a difference between "vulgar" and "extremely powerful".
As I recall, the sentence before that is about your nimbus just giving dudes boners/making chicks wet. Which, sure, it's still pretty close to Magical Realm, but I actually had an idea for a guy who was gonna be in the Adamantine Arrow and use the shock of "WHY AM I TURNED ON BY THIS" as an opportunity to tear people apart. "WHY DID I JUST CUM TO THAT" works just as well, though.
It's just like the Orgasm/Orgy(Ecstasy or w/e in SR5) spell from Shadowrun; sure, it sound magical realm as hell, but when you put your mind to it you can use it to give yourself a window to do pretty mean shit.
>>43634938
To explain what I mean a bit better:
>Max out your Life dots asap
>Do a spell to give yourself claws or fangs or whatever while in the presence of your target, but not within sight range if they're a sleeper
>Use their momentary confusion of "why did I just get a boner???" as a chance to spring an attack on them
>>43631513
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XPlz0eeixDo
>>43634897
>>43634938
>>43634958
>>43634938
http://www.thesubnet.com/portal/wod2/mtaw/index.html
>>43634958
Honestly, it's a legitimate tactic. Confuse someone with sexual feelings, then punch them in the face.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aj1lTyy-HxE
Haha, time for henchfeels.How would YOU play Jaws?
>>43635146
That was phenomenally dumb. Also, would have been cuter if she had braces.
>>43635183
>That was phenomenally dumb.
Which bit? Jaws biting through the cable in the first place, or Bond using protag bullshit to survive letting go of that cable.
>>43635243
>Which bit?
Pretty much all of it.
>>43635251
Would you believe me if I said my original intention was to post his Death from the same movie.
https://youtu.be/HF-wVFTR0fg
I feel like this could probably be useful to WoD somehow.
>>43635380
wow i was going to dismiss this as lame nerd overanalysis but the guy had a soothing voice and wasn't that stupid, i liked it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AgnP18fT0I4
Scelesti essential reading coming through.
>>43629959
Gods, look at that image.
That's the most spectacular result of a single Shift Consequence EVER.
>>43634938
>And you didn't investigate the noise coming from down the hall WHY?
>... don't bother answering. according to the security cam here we know *EXACTLY* what he was doing at the time
>Oh EW. Yeah, you'll be reimbursing us for that uniform, AND the chair, AND the desk, on your way out.
"It wasn't me! It was the evil shadowrunner thieves!"
>>43635762
>>43635729
It really needs music.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfdEdE96En0
>>43635847
That one doesn't include 7 Cuils though.
>>43635859
I feel the 7th is a bit stupid.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YTpf3GRTNww
Vezok reminds me of a Malk.
>>43634849
>A Mage can say "ladies, please contain your orgasms" and mean it.
No, really, ladies. I mean it. I need your orgasms contained inside these ritually prepared jars. Just take the one with your name on it and do what you do.
>>43631362
Not necessarily horrible, but often, well, really fucking weird, plus they tend to start mutating horribly after a while.
One of my favourite Claimed was a road-Claimed called Tar Peter who pretty much survived the entire campaign, with a sometimes-antagonistic, sometimes-allied attitude towards the player pack.
>>43635710
I'll admit like half the reason I listen to Nerdwriter is the voice. I hate his episode on Worldbuilding, which sounds like something out of Don Quixote ("Hurr hurr, too much worldbuilding and we'll forget to live in reality") but his voice is so soothing.
>>43635742
Possibly. It's actually Red Court Vampires using a bunch of mortals to launch a sarin gas attack on a White Council hospital.
>>43636798
>Tar Peter
"It's not them you need to worry about."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WEQYhZr_swY
>>43637217
cock
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBKHiKBgHfY
I have a question for the OPP devs about Scion, as it doesn't have it's own general.
I've been selling the sensible graces of OPP's writers to a friend of mine, as OPP is writing Scion 2e. We both are currently playing/running Scion1e respectively, and he has professed to have a considerable issue to how the game approaches monotheistic faith, and to a smidgen, so do I (he is an observant Pentecostal, I an observant muslim).
Scion outright espouses that anything resembling a monotheistic faith is an absolute lie, the direct result of the titan Aten, who is clearly written to be the setting's stand-in for the Abrahamic god. While we both deal with this in our own ways, what gribs me most is White Wolf's writing style in this regard, loudly proclaiming anything widely acceptable is WRONG AND FOR THE SHEEPLE, THIS IS HOW IT REALLY IS, and how rapidly they try to shut down exploring possibilities and what could be.
>this is primarily why I appreciate NWoD so much, there are very few THIS IS HOW IT IS moments
While we are both interested in a Scion 2e, he is concerned that due to the fact some WW writers made the jump to OPP, that the lore quip that someone's faith is badwrong and the result of everything evil in the world will also make the jump.
So I told him I'd go right to the horse's mouth and ask the devs for an answer. So what of it, then? Will this be excised, or will it be pushed forward to the point of alienating potential customers?
>>43637235
Well, the actual Scion developer doesn't post here much anymore (though I think Chris said he writes for it?) but I feel like I've seen stuff about a monotheistic pantheon. Maybe that was a fan game, though.
Either way, I will say that Abrahamic religion doesn't really fit within Scion anyway. I mean, who would you be a Scion of? There are only two groups of scions: One is the Nephilim and the other is Jesus.
>>43637335
There is a difference between not fitting in, and saying outright that it is the direct result of some monstrously evil being and is wrong on all counts.
I would rather it be left in the air for GMs to deal with, instead of WW's habit of telling players "this is how it is, because our story".
>>43637382
Old White Wolf somehow did both when it came to Christianity. It was all evil AND all correct.
>>43632073
>>43632394
>>43633308
>>43634526
>“All right, watch.” Aaronson held up a book, one of the P.G. Wodehouse paperbacks that he’d begged Baines to get him. “Now you see it? Now you don’t."
>And the book vanished from his hand. Only it didn’t, really. Aaronson still knew it was there, it had just become… something no one needed to see.
>“There is no book,” Aaronson said. “You have to halfway believe that, even though you know the book is there and it’s in your hand. But you have to make it gone, like, gone in a layer of your mind. Then you push that layer out and wrap it around the other guy’s brain. Try it.”
>“There is no book,” Baines said. But the book was very clearly present.
>“No, believe it. Believe there is no book.”
>“How can I believe there ain’t no book when I’m holding the book in my fuckin’ hand?”
>Aaronson sighed. Maybe it wasn’t worth it, having his hours broken up. But it’s sure as hell worth not getting caught, he thought, so he tried again.
>“Back when you were alive, did you ever think something was true but, like, you didn’t want it to be true? So you lied to yourself, even though down inside you knew?”
cont.
>>43637411
Depends on which game line you were looking at.
>>43637421
>“Huh?”
>“Look.” Aaronson twisted in his seat and turned away. “In high school, right? When I was breathing? There was this girl and, you know, I was a dumb shit. I fell for her and everything and I knew she didn’t dig me. All right? I knew there was no way. But! I stayed away from her and didn’t talk to her and didn’t meet her eye because as long as I didn’t ask her, there was no way she could tell me, right? I knew she didn’t but, I made myself think that she might. That she still could.I told myself there was no rejection.”
>“Man, you were a chump.”
>“Okay, fuck it, you’ll never learn, okay? And you’ll never learn to think that you might not be a vampire, that you can’t be vampire, and you’ll never learn how you might not even be there, might not even be, and that’s how you make yourself vanish from plain sight. But you’ll never get it because I’m a loser, I’m the
fucking chump! Fine.”
>For a moment, they were quiet, and when Russell looked up, Earth’s face was inscrutable.
>“Sorry, Baines. It’s just…”
>“So it’s shame? Is that it?”
>Russell wobbled his head, side to side, uncertain.
>“Um, well, it doesn’t have to be shame. But… I guess when I do it, it mainly is.”
>Baines looked down at the book, which he’d paged through while waiting in line at the store. Edwardian fops and grown men with little-boy names and butlers and tea. He’d felt like an idiot buying it. He’d thought about how he’d like to smack Russell for whining so much about it.
>“Look away from it,” Aaronson said quietly. >Earth glanced up and saw the other vampire smiling.
>“What?”
>“It’s fading.”
>“Straight up?” Earth looked down, squinted, cocked his head. “There is no book,” he muttered.
>“Ah, now you lost it again.”
>“Damn!”
>Look in Ask Neal thread
How can you defend a rule system (scion 1) that is objectively shit?
>>43637428
I specifically meant Demon.
>>43637454
Huh?
As someone who literally just finished his very first playthough of VTMB Bloodlines... How much has the lore of WoD changed since the end of oWoD?
What would be some good spirits to have in a Werebear's spirit court?
Like... aside from just generic bear spirits. I want to make a family of Bear Shapeshifters and weird allies. Going to take some inspiration from the Gurahl and how they could bring the dead back to life.
>>43637622
Oh boy.
It is literally a whole new world. Sure, you have many of the same kinds of supernaturals, but their societies and histories have changed a lot. Just to give Mage as an example, the metaphysical underpinning of the world is the exact opposite as before.
If you want to get into either WoD, you will probably want to look into which one catches your fancy.
Don't worry if you end up liking cWoD better. They will get new editions Soon(TM).
>>43637647
Oh. Well. Um. I really liked playing as a Tremere (Blood Boil fuck yeah), although the Tzimisce do interest me. Are they old-WoD only, because my wiki walk didn't say anything about them in VTR?
>>43637679
Both are oWoD only. Although the Tremere are a group of evil soul eating vampire Mages in nWoD.
>>43637679
Blood Sorcery exists in VtR, but the Tremere and Tzimisce do not (out of the box), but you could make them as Bloodlines.
If you are interested in Vampire in particular, why not look into V20 and VtR 2e respectively?
>>43637335
Nah, I've never written for Scion and have no idea what's happening with the new edition, haven't been keeping abreast of it at all.
>>43637965
Well then, where would a man go to have an answer to a fairly worrisome query?
>>43638039
If I had to guess, I'd suggest the Onyx Path forums? Not sure how active the Scion dev is on the Scion forum there but it seems a likely one.
What are the rules for drowning in WoD? Chances are my players will run the risk of it next session but I can't find it anywhere.
>>43637639
>What would be some good spirits to have in a Werebear's spirit court?
It would depend on where the court was. Like, if the court is in a woodland glade then you want basic woodland shit with the bear as the leader. So like, the spirits of ring of ancient oak trees, the spirit of the nearby river as the more prominent ones. Deer, fish, a wide variety of nature spirits.
If you're going for just shapeshifter allies then again, deer, raccoons, rabbits, owls, otters, beavers, chipmunks, squirrels, salmon, wolves (if you want to go that route), basic woodland creature shit.
>>43638104
I do believe you can hold your breath for minutes equal to stamina.
After that, you take a lethal per round.
>>43637639
Spirits related to bear things, including concepts.
A spirit of wrath would be right at home, for example, because bears can be pissed off something fierce, or a spirit of slumber.
>>43637235
I'm not a Scion dev but I think you're also taking it a little too personally OOG. Why it's written that way is more from a setting POV, not from an OOG badwrongfun kind of intent, so I wouldn't take it too close to heart. You might have better luck over at the OPP forums to get the dev(s) directly though but I'd probably expect it to stay since worship is so important to deities in the Scion setting..
>>43637335
As far as a monotheistic view, the in-world view of that from the various pantheons is what we've seen, but monotheistic 'pantheons' can work out well, even for PC Scions if you're willing to put some work into it. I've played in a game where the more classical representation of Angels and Archangels was presented as a 'pantheon' under YVWH, taking the role of what a God parent would do (sometimes through actual birth ala Nephilim, but mostly through the 'chosen mortal to share power with' aspect) and our ST actually used the 'monotheism is a lie' angle to get some interesting social and political RP going.
>>43637679
There's also a Translation Guide meant for using OWoD clans with NWoD setting and vice-versa, as well as an ALL THE THINGS IN THE POT LETS STIR IT UP AND MAKE SOME PIE mixture of the two.
But nothing you'll know from OWoD except some terminology applies to NWoD, really.
>>43638104
OWoD or NWoD? If NWoD, 1e or 2e?
>>43638222
NWoD, 1st.
>>43638262
NWoD core pg. 49
Holding Breath
Dice Pool: Stamina
Action: Reflexive
A character can hold her breath for a number of turns based on her Stamina dots, as follows:
Stamina Time*
• 30 seconds
•• One minute
••• Two minutes
•••• Four minutes
••••• Eight minutes
••••• • 15 minutes
••••• •• 30 minutes
* If your character is in combat, she can hold her breath for one turn per Stamina dot.
When she has reached her normal limit, a Stamina roll is made to continue. Each success grants 30 extra seconds (or one extra turn per success in combat).
When she can no longer hold her breath, she begins suffocating/drowning. She suffers one lethal Health wound per turn. (Werewolves and other living supernatural creatures cannot regenerate this damage until they can breathe again. Since vampires and the walking dead don’t breathe, they cannot suffocate or drown.)
>>43631611
The whole thing was always an attempt by ugly dudes to get in girls' pants. So you can say with some certainty it wasn't specifically liberals.
>>43631697
What GG became was very much a conservative moment. But they're right in that ethical journalism is one of the pillars of liberal ideal. So...maybe at the outset?
>>43635380
It's useful to any GM when they're making their cities something special.
>>43637421
>>43637452
While that's clearly a personal case, I bet you can track the other Disciplines to similar kinds of negative emotions, like Obfuscation is tracked to shame.
>>43637483
Some guy over there is mad that the system is getting completely retooled. Says it changes the nature of the game (not Scion anymore) and he thinks the devs are inattentive.
>>43639553
He's 100% right though
>>43639553
Given that the nature of the game was being an unplayable mess with fluff that could be tacked onto almost any system, I say change it.
>>43639553
There's several very good reasons why Scion and Trinity are moving to a new system of their own rather than use the ones they had (the variant of Storyteller Exalted 1st ed then took up for Trinity, and Exalted 2nd ed for Scion).
Onyx Path own those two games rather than license them from White Wolf (whoever White Wolf might be). If recent events have shown anything, it's that not using Storyteller or Storytelling for them was the right idea.
That aside, building a new system for them lets those two games be optimized for action-adventure with wildly varying power levels, which both games need. The nWoD is designed for street-level horror games, Exalted 3rd is designed for its particular kind of action fantasy.
As for "inattentive", I think Neall possibly takes his job as Dev more seriously than any of us. He's put *considerable* effort into Scion 2, and building the system it and Trinity will use.
>>43639553
>he thinks the devs are inattentive.
>inattentive devs
>has had a Q&A thread that's got like a billion posts, almost all of which he answers himself
k
>>43639553
>If I can't have empty levels of dots to invest XP into OR high level play that's completely useless, it's not Scion any more!
Good lord.
>>43638141
>>43638156
I'm looking to bring in more than just strictly bear-related things though. Bear is important to them but its not the key to their identity or even their major gift; reviving the dead.
>>43640029
What about the word that you can't copyright game mechanics? Couldn't they have just... used Storyteller without a problem?
Will it be possible to play World of Darkness in Storypath?
>>43640327
>Bear is important to them but its not the key to their identity or even their major gift; reviving the dead.
I'd go with a corrupted variant of Cernunnos (The Horned God). Not with all the Celtic influence, necessarily. Either a giant humanoid with antlers or a deer with a human face or some admixture. Then I'd throw in a specific kind of spirit as the minions/umia, something evocative that you can scale to use as minions of varying degrees of strength. Maybe shadows with skeleton masks or aged/decrepit humanoids who move with surprising agility and vigor (to represent defying death). You'd want to throw in another general maybe, after the death bear and the horned god. Maybe one representing entropy(something with a wasting venom), one death/destruction (bear?) and one revival/cheating death (horned god?)
Not sure if that's what you were going for.
>>43640631
>Maybe one representing entropy(something with a wasting venom), one destruction (bear?) and one revival/cheating death (horned god? possible leader)
I mean I assume they're all part death if that's their thing. Claimed or Magath or something. Just trying different angles on it.
>>43640631
No no it's perfectly good! I'm looking for spirits that could reinforce some of the Werebears themes; that they police the line between life and death by bringing back the dead and healing the living. (Also fighting vampires/zombies and the like when they come across them.) That they muck around with Spirits and Ghosts. That they shapeshift into bears. They consider themselves to be warriors and healers...
>>43640609
The keyword is game MECHANICS, not game TERMS. Unless you want to straight up rename everything, it's not feasable. And honestly, the biggest problem with Scion (and Exalted but apparently not as much in 3e) is that it's very bad at handling fantasy action.
>>43640029
Hey, I like the notion of a more cohesive system, and agree that recent transactions dictate that this move is for the better. I do think that edition changes shouldn't be taken too drastically afield, but of course you guys know that: you spend much of your time fine-tuning aspects of your games to evoke the right feel.
Still, drastic changes are often seen between editions of tabletop games, and often enough the changes aren't always beneficial. There have been cases where large shifts in paradigm have led to a fracturing of the fanbase - hell, the most eminent rpg, DnD, has regular players of four or five sets of rules from any point in their history, not including when they decided to change how their games work mid-edition - Twice. That players can be leery of what they see as mercurial development processes isn't dismissible, but at the same time doesn't capture the whole story.
That said, I'm looking forward to hearing something more concrete about Scion, particularly because it no longer seems like an afterthought - the greater involvement and scope of the system opens up many interesting doors for the game, and that, I find, is a good thing
>That they shapeshift into bears. They consider themselves to be warriors and healers.
Maybe mirror some Druidic/Warrior cultures.
Native American (especially Sioux, Shoshone and Cree), American frontiersmen, Viking/berserkers, and Celtic druids all to varying degrees had cultures based around warriors, healers and bears. Druids less bear, Vikings less healer, etc. but those are all cultures you could draw inspiration from that also had reverence for life/death.
Also a good idea to look at the Changing Breeds book for ideas on werebears. Should have stuff on their culture that you can borrow and alter for your needs. There's also stuff in the War Against the Pure book (the last section is on other wereanimals) I don't think there are bears there, but there are definitely bulls and they sound a lot like what you're describing so maybe just use that as inspiration and transpose bears on them instead.
And there's Skinchangers. It has Barsarks and probably other stuff on bears but I haven't read that in literally forever.
>>43640898
forgot to reply to you
> there is reasonable cause to assume that a group of beings sometimes referred to as 'Unchained' by reports is attempting to open a gate to the Abyss to escape some only vaguely described 'Machine'
How hard does literally everyone in the Pentacle flip their shit?
>>43642249
Pretty hard, but almost certainly not as much as the Secret Order of The Gate.
![82477[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/sSBDnJN.jpg "82477[1].jpg")
Hey speaking of Game Mechanics, I need to ask something 'bout NWOD.
Okay, so Mirrors had several options for simplifying the Attributes and Skills set-up to just Mental, Physical and Social for when you needed a character in a hurry. Thing is their are a fair amount of supernatural powers that affect Specific Attributes/Skills, like the Werewolves War-Form which boosts boosts Strength and Stamina. How do these work together?
>>43642812
Whichever is the higher bonus.
One of Mirror's biggest flaws is that it clearly wasn't really playtested or thought out much. "How do all the other rules interact with these" wasn't really something they were worried about.
>>43642899
Or had the time to.
>>43642812
The new MET actually uses pared down attributes, with Focuses in the core Attributes. you could adapt that, and then things that affect the 'sub attributes' give or remove the appropriate focus, as well as perhaps a bonus to the appropriate rolls (something that buffs Strength would give a +3 to actions that predicate on Strength, while something that buffs Stamina gaves) . It works pretty well for powers and abilities in that system.
>>43642899
>>43643055
I always figured that the rules sections to Mirrors were just developer house rules complied in a book, to varying degrees of success. I think the grid combat system might be the worst one, though.
I can't remember which it is, I can't find it in the book, but for nWoD, if my players want to represent combat with minis and a "battle map", is it better to use hexes or squares.
>>43645282
Squares are simpler.
>>43645282
On that topic, does anyone know a good place to look for WoD appropriate miniatures?
>>43645366
I haven't been able to find any that are in any way cost efficient. It kinda sucks.
Okay, so in a hunter game im playing the PC's just killed a strix, which they mistakenly thought to be a resurrecting vampire that could walk in the sun. One of the heads of the local vampire group that was also fighting the guy came to tell them tell them they didnt know what they were dealing with and would likely die if they kept getting involved not knowing they had killed it. The PC's then offered to essentially serve as strix hit men as vampires couldnt really safely attack the things with fire and didnt want to keep killing the things bodies over and over. Is this the type of thing a vampire would want to keep secret? I haven't read enough vampire to know
>>43645680
This is not something that Vampires would want to be publicly known, yeah. Stories of Strix infesting a domain already causes waves of paranoia, the idea of outsiders attempting to hunt down the things would make things worse if widely known. A deal like this can still be made, but it's probably something made on the downlow.
How do Mages feel about Beasts, generally?
>>43647436
Says at the back of the Beasts book, Anon.
The Reapers consider them Big Game.
How long did the approval process usually take under CCP? I'm worried about the nWoD 2.0 core book.
I feel there should be more WoD-related reaction images, considering it's such an old franchise.
>>43647727
A week or two, roughly.
>>43647436
>Peaceful contact between Beast and mage often hinges on how far the Beast goes in sating its Hunger, and how the mage takes the story of the Dark Mother and an explanation of the Lair and soul. Friendly Mages use baffling terms like “Pandemonic Emanation Realm,” tell the Children stories of the great primal “Aeons” in the far reaches of Astral Space —some of whom match certain descriptions of the Dark Mother —and make theories about the Dragon-like beings who supposedly helped the first mages to Awaken. Mastigos and Thyrsus can even use the presence of a Beast with a kinship bond as a symbol or “Yantra” in their spells. Hostile mages decide that Beasts are a reflection of the World’s Fallen state, or claim that the Dark Mother is the Raptor, the Supernal personification or “Exarch” of humanity’s fear of nature. They become terrible enemies, able to slip into the Lair and wreak havoc with their magic, like Heroes without the self-delusion or reliance on the Beast’s own power. Worst of all are mages who steal the souls of victims for use in experiments or fuel for strange powers; a Beast’s soul is a difficult but prestigious prize for so-called “Reapers.” Due to Beast’s connection to their Lair mages can’t steal the soul of a Begotten just by casting a spell in the physical world. It requires as much ability with the Arcana as taking the soul of a mage, and can only be cast inside the Lair. Despite the risks, some Reapers who learn the existence of Beasts go on twisted safaris into the Primordial Pathways, convinced that they can reduce the Children of the Dark Mother to big game.
Can a werewolf use fighting styles while transformed?
>>43648470
Ugh, I hate this idea of every splat suddenly inserting Beasts into their own mythology when there's no reason they should give a fuck about the asshole dragonpeople
>>43630197
This is where the Seers of the Throne come in. A distracted populace is a sleepy populace
>>43648572
Only if you have a good enough pun.
>>43648603
So ignore them
That stuff is in the Beast book only. It's not gonna be in any of the other books, because nWoD is a toolbox, and you're free to ignore any of the other splats as you wish.
>>43648572
In Dalu? Sure. In Gauru? Probably not.
In Urshul or Urhan? No, you aren't gonna be punching or kicking shit.
Hey, so I was looking at the foot chase rules, and realized it doesn't translate well to 2e rules. How do you do it?
>>43648572
In Dalu you can, provided it's the kind of fighting style that works with using claws (or you just don't use the claws). In Gauru you can only use brute force fighting styles, not ones that rely on targeting or forethought.
>>43648603
But they've done that--Mages especially--every time a new book comes out. Hell, "figuring out how this fits into our worldview" is one of the things Mages DO. Poking things and going "hey, how does this work?" literally gives them experience points.
The Mage who talks to a Beast about the Dark Mother? The Mage who chitchats about Pandaemonium and Aeons, or try to connect Beasts to the Dragons? The one who sees The Dark Mother as Raptor and wants to cast the Beasts aside because they represent the Fallen and are tools of the Exarchs? The Tremere who wants the power and life that comes from some ancient soul-creature inhabiting the Temenos? They're all getting Arcane Beats. Same as they'd get Arcane Beats from doing the same with Changelings. Well, except the Tremere. I bet Changeling "souls" aren't very useful to the Tremere, since they're tattered and dirty.
>>43648805
Why doesn't it? I can't remember it, but correct me if I'm wrong:
>Runner tries to get more successes than Pursuer
>Pursuer tries to get successes equal to Runner's speed
>Pursuer and Runner both roll Stamina+Athletics
>Pursuer and Runner both have [Stamina+Athletics] total rolls they can make
What doesn't translate? Or am I getting it wrong?
>>43648805
Unless the chase is incredibly dramatic, I'd probably make it quick and clean. Contested Stamina+Athletics roll (a player is guaranteed to have Athletics in 2e, so it's not as bad as it would seem), whoever's got more successes wins the chase.
What could be neat is that you don't roll for the chase until after a set amount of turns. What you do instead is describe how you're impeding/catching up in the chase, and that'll determine your final penalty/bonus for the chase roll. I might play around with that.
How does Anachrotech function in settings older than modern day? If one wanted to do L.A. Quartet corrupt 60s, would Sin-Eaters just not pick the Industrial Key since a hundred-year old device at that point in time wouldn't really be of much help, or is Anachrotech's potency intrinsic to the time periods in which the modifiers apply?
>>43645366
Find an A-frame template in a format you can edit. Paste in the images. Print and fold, clip with paperclip or tape to penny. Boom.
>>43649173
I'd assume the penalties are based on where you are now. Alternately you could assume that the penalty is at it's highest, and so something in the 1960s the most the Anachrotech penalty will be is -1.
>>43649173
Using the example of God's Own Country, the 50s New Zealand setting of Geist, it appears that Anarchrotech always starts at whatever time you're setting in as the "modern day" and works backwards from there.
Advancing it 10 years, your Anarchrotech chart will probably look like this:
+3 100+ Years since Invention
+2 Invented before 1870
+1 Invented before 1850
0 Invented before 1910
-1 In the 1920s
-2 In the 1930s
-3 In the 1940s
-4 In the 1950s
-5 Within the past four years.
Anyone interested in my collection of these? I don't have the original images to most of them, since they're graphic novels in cbr format where I just copied a page to the clipboard and then cropped it, possibly with a bit of GIMPing to take out a logo.
I'm also now reading the Mercy Thompson graphic novels.
>>43649527
>>43649591
Yeah that's what I assumed but was hoping wasn't true, since it greatly complicates the burden of knowledge on the Industrial Key user. That said, it's more "universal" that way, so it's not as much of a drawback as it is a concession.
Thank you for the clarification!
>>43650485
You could always just ignore it, because it's kind of a dumb rule, and -5 doesn't really matter when you're rolling 13 dice anyway.
>>43650256
Honestly, I'd prefer more art from WoD books as opening post pictures. There's 24 years of books, that should be plenty of material. Ultimately it doesn't matter all that much, but it'd be nice.
Also a reminder: next year is the 25th Anniversary of Vampire the Masquerade and the World of Darkness as a whole. Just think: in another world, Steve Jackson games would still have the rights, and the WoD would be an extremely popular GURPS setting instead. What a world that would be!
>>43650592
That world is gay, I'm glad I'm not living there
>>43650703
Interestingly enough, we probably would still have WoD GURPS books if the Steve Jackson/White Wolf relationship hadn't fallen apart so quickly.
Check it out, some prime 90s gaming drama: https://groups.google.com/forum/m/#!topic/rec.games.frp.advocacy/8LwzvERjd4Y
With letters like these, perhaps it's for the best that we're in the dark.
>>43650772
>in the dark about the Paradox licensing talks.
Dang tired brain.
>>43650592
I'm not exactly opposed to using WoD art for images. It's just that my *personal* belief is that the thread starter images should be non-WoD stuff that gets the reader's creative juices flowing, and can link back to whatever interesting topic there is. Like the one I used for this thread, it's the White Council getting hit with a sarin gas attack by Red Court vampires at their hospital in the Congo. But to anyone who hasn't read the War Cry graphic novel, it's still a bunch of dead people and two really weirdly dressed characters who look relatively modern in their clothing design, but have capes and swords, which is very Urban Fantasy-esque. That Mercy Thompson art >>43650256 (You) also depicts a Coyote shapeshifter raised by Wolves, but with that tattoo over her nethers, she could very much be a Wolfblooded. A lot of other ones I've used have been from Dresden Files, which is one of the commonly cited sources for Inspiration.
It doesn't help that other than the covers, almost all WoD art is monocolour, and a lot of the covers are *really* shitty, especially for the blue book like (Reliquary, anyone?). Later in the line, they had some good ones (like this one!) but most of the WoD art isn't really usable (and I had to edit this one since I don't have an original).
Also, not sure the lettering works well. I don't want to keep using Garish Monde, but it's also the most WoD font and helps people realize this is the WoD thread when scrolling through (although I imagine most people find it by ctrl+f)
>>43650703
Wrong. That world is probably NOT gay, and gay is great. Especially gay vampire ladies covered in blood (pic related).
>>43650592
>>43650772
I don't think Steve Jackson ever had the rights to anything other than printing GURPS Vampire books, any more than Monte Cook had "the rights".
>>43650857
Nah, SJG had the WoD copyright first, back when White Wolf was going to write it using GURPS rules. Then one of the Shadowrun developers helped create Storyteller and the rest was history.
Also they published GURPS Werewolf and Mage, with the promise of future WoD adaptations, but as you can see from what I linked, the business relationship had a rocky end.
Also you need to do a thread opener with the Reliquary cover. It's too hideous not to do so. That or start using the best one, the ketchup one.
>>43650913
Oh, really? Wow. I didn't know the GURPS version was first. I thought it was just part of that craze where literally everything was given a GURPS official sourcebook. Pretend I have better things to do than read that letter (I don't, but pretend): What's the gist of the schism?
Also, fuck you for making me do pic related.
>>43630074
Once played a Hunter who, as his first Vigil after his wife and baby were killed by vampires, drove his car full of gasoline and explosives into their Elysium during session. He staked out the place and carefully plotted.
I also should note he was a chemical engineer and very good at his job. He barely got out alive, but he went on to be a *very* good Hunter.
Another Hunter I played, in order to combat a shit ton of Shartha in his town, coordinated a massive assault on a dorm (where a majority of them were staying) in order to recover a relic the spirits were going to use. Think the final mission for Modern Warfare 3. SAW Rifles, High end armor, grenades...the works.
If that isn't supernatural terrorism, I don't know what is.
>>43651218
Simply magnificent! I was gonna make one of my own later today, only with the title in Comic Sans, but this will do nicely. Maybe I'll still do that for April Fools...
Anyways, what happened was this:
After WoD exploded in popularity, since Steve Jackson Games still had a WoD copyright attached to their name, they made a deal with White Wolf to publish 10 WoD GURPS books. This made sense: the WoD was originally five games: Vampire, Werewolf, Mage, and Ghost and IIRC Fairy (later Wraith and Changeling). Five main books, one companion for each. Simple.
Well, not so simple. White Wolf made it clear that they didn't want WoD GURPS to compete with them too much, so they made mandates. SJG couldn't put an adventure set in a city because WW might set a book there someday. SJG had to use specific artists WW asked for so that the covers would be the same, but remember, not too much the same. SJG had an idea on how to do the second source books: use them as a sampler platter for the rest of the lines, using bits and pieces of each new source book to convert to GURPS. Vampire Companion, the only one of these books to see the light of day, is a good example, it's bits of three books put into one. WW didn't like that. New Mandate: SJG could only pick one sourcebook in the line, and they had to replicate that in GURPS.
Then White Wolf took forever to approve the WoD GURPS books. Then Stuart Wieck, president of White Wolf, stopped taking Steve Jackson's calls. Then Steve went to Usenet to make what was going on public. Then Wieck went public, and then Jackson retaliated. GURPS Mage: The Ascension finally saw the light of day, but that was the end of the line, and that's why there's no 4e GURPS WoD books.
And now you know...the rest of the story.
>>43651389
Whoops, it was Stephan Wieck, not Stuart Wieck. My bad.
>>43651389
>Simply magnificent! I was gonna make one of my own later today, only with the title in Comic Sans, but this will do nicely.
You're a fucking monster.
Mage 2e when!?
>>43648572
Yes, as long as the fighting style is appropriate for said form.
There are even two Werewolf-specific fighting styles in 2nd ed WtF, one of which is entirely focused around shapeshifting.
Which makes me realise I should probably add some clarification around forms for the new fighting style I've written up to go into The Pack...
I've got a location in my game which is supposed to be essentially cursed to attract all kinds of weird stuff, quirks of fate and all that.
I'm already using it to justify a whole load of Supernatural stuff occurring directly in their neighborhood, but I'm mostly drawing a blank on more "mundane" improbable stuff that could occur.
Anyone have any suggestions? It doesn't have to be big, and I really want to avoid stuff which seems comedic, or based off of existing superstitions.
P.S. It's totally not the influence of the God Machine.It really isn't, it's not awake yet.
>>43652122
You always JUST miss the traffic lights when you're late or in a rush.
I'm sorry.
I'm so sorry.
>>43652177
No you're not
>>43652177
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_BGKyAKigs
>>43652122
Everyone, EVERYONE who shaves with a razor will cut themselves at least once.
No matter who you are, or how careful you are.
Always.
Also electrics are even less effective than normal.
>>43652122
Maybe some sort of haunted statue from a foreign land? Construction on a sewer tunnel has accidentally created a hole to a cavern that goes deeper into the earth than man has knowledge of? A fire hydrant with a very old spirit that's angry about constantly being peed on and lashes out by burning houses down? You could also take the evil architecture idea like in ghostbusters, maybe a group of buildings secretly line up to create an esoteric occult symbol
>>43651389
It is a real shame too, because the GURPS WoD books were awesome. In all honesty, I prefer GURPS Vampire: The Masquerade and its companion book to the later editions of the official White Wolf stuff. Little to no metaplot and I like the system better, you can even plug in other GURPS material into your setting if you choose to as well.
Shame the deal ended so badly.
>>43629959
Anybody here like the medieval stuff for oWoD? Like Vampire: The Dark Ages/Dark Ages: Vampire and the related spin-off gamelines.
I really like it, sometimes more than the modern oWoD setting (if I want modern WoD, I stick to New World of Darkness).
>>43652290
I once played a short game of Vampire: The Dark Ages.
I say short, because we never got beyond the first session.
Which may have been for the best, as the GM's knowledge of historical economics was fucking retarded.
Also that one fucking Brujah demanded to be called a "Baron" based on his mortal Barony... That alone earned us the emnity of like 5 NPCs in the first session alone.
On principle though? I'm all for it.
>>43652122
totally read that wrong. Perhaps dogs go silent when walking through the neighborhood, or aggressiveness is amplified. Even though YOU SWEAR you took the garbage out, you find it back inside. Animals start wandering about the opposite time you'd expect to see them prowling. Walking under the bridge, the cars almost sound like people screaming. Doors are slammed shut at an alarming speed due to a wind current flowing through the house...even though all the windows are closed. Children and elderly are more likely to fall into a daze and wander into traffic unkowingly. Children are convinced their toys are moving when they're not around. People start hearing voices out of their ear, like someone whispering behind you. You're sure the breeze that passed your ear was just the wind; you're certainly not going to mention it to others. You're not crazy after all
>Dump my players in the Hedge without them knowing
>After getting lost for a while, declare they've lost a point of Morality
>Everyone wtf's and starts trying to figure out how the hell that happened
>One player out of character realises where they are
>PCs face when
What a fun session.
>>43652311
To be fair, when I GM a Dark Ages WoD game, I don't stress historical accuracy. I try to put some semblance of accuracy in the campaign (I am a history geek), but it doesn't stress me too much if I don't get things 100% correct, especially considering my players aren't usually into history so they won't be bothered by some minor inaccuracies for the sake of the story.
>>43652290
I love Dark Ages: Vampire, once had a BBEG who was a Road of Sin Tzimisce based on pic related (I cleaned some things up to avoid going full magical realm though) and I scared the shit out of my players with her (in a good way), especially during the final boss fight when she summoned some demons to her aid, and suffice to say, that was a badass campaign with a lot of grimdark medieval adventuring. Think along the lines of Berserk with fangs.
>>43652364
I apologize in advance for the shitty thumbnail, it's the only pic I have of the character.
>>43652342
Dude had a Ventrue bounce a property across various banks, across the British Channel, tying it up in a complex web of mortgages and resettlements, such that it was basically a ticking time bomb and he made a mint, before signing over his entire business/bank (which had no employees) to my character (the PC) to deal with.
In one fucking night.
In the 1400's.
Now I might not have a Finance degreeand my basic Economics degree doesn't help much with thisor much extensive knowledge of the telepathic capabilities of Vampires... But that shit seems off to me.
>>43629959
Is it wrong that I prefer nWoD 1e over 2e? Mainly because I am already familiar with the mechanics, but still.
>>43652396
Okay, yeah that is an extreme inaccuracy that I would not allow in my game.
>>43651389
I really wish the GURPS WoD games would have continued
>>43652177
Is it wrong that I actually find that funny?
>>43629959
I wonder why it's taking so long for M20 to get a full release. I know the Kickstarter folks have already gotten their copies, but has it been released to the general public yet?
>>43652444
I don't think it has gotten a full release yet, and with the Paradox acquisition, things may get even more complicated.
>>43652334
heh.
hey guys, newbie here
So, i've been reading into the whole Vampire thing and it's really kewl but through out the whole thing there was one over bearing question on my mind which I can't really figure out fully -
Just how much Clan effects character's personality? At time's books make it seem like Clans are pretty much locked in their archetypes and sometimes it seems like you can get away with almost anything you wanna do. So where's a line?
Can you make a antisocial bum Ventrue?
Or a well mannered, careerist Gangrel?
I really wanna hear your opinions on that subject
>>43652494
Depends on the game and what the ST allows, really.
So, theory time.
What exactly is the God-Machine?
Did it create reality? The fact that its presence seems to only be in the Fallen world seems to indicate no. But if that's true, where did it come from?
Was it created by some ancient alien civilisation that it then consumed and then expanded out from there?
How else do you think it could have formed?
>>43652290
Ironically I want to run a fantasy game using nWoD. Or maybe a game set in a historical version of my go-to city. Does anyone have a city creation guideline?
Specifically I want to make maps of cities that don't look shit. I'm tempted to grab a map of Vancouver or something and start renaming places.
>>43652376
What? That image is 445x732, it's not a thumbnail...
>>43652402
I don't understand people who like 1e better. 2e basically shined a light on all the problems of 1e that I either didn't know about or didn't realize were bad. It's like playing the sequel to a game with really fun gameplay and then being unable to play the original because the improvements were so massive.
Assassin's Creed Brotherhood and Snake Eater compared to the games that came before, basically. Feels wrong to play ACII or MGS2 because the controls are so different. It feels clunky. And going back to the FIRST one in both series is... eesh.
>>43652494
>Just how much Clan effects character's personality?
In oWoD? Clan is everything.
>>43653637
>Feels wrong to play ACII or MGS2 because the controls are so different.
Man, I understand what you're trying to say, and opinions and everything, but that's like saying there's no reason to go back and play the older Final Fantasy games because the new ones exist, or never going back to play the original Mass Effect because 2 and 3 have better controls.
>>43653743
Nah, something like Final Fantasy it's easy, because there's more of a disconnect between what you do and what the character does. But for something like ACB or MGS3 the controls are in every way the same as their precursors but better. They have perfect gamefeel compared to the games before them.
I'm not saying you CAN'T go back to them, I'm just saying that it's REALLY hard. Getting used to the newer controls and going back feels like a clear step down, and it's less comfortable. It's like having a new pair of sneakers and then losing them so you have to wear your old ones until you find them again.
That's what it's like for me to go back to 1e. It's just so... awkward. Strong weapons are hyper accurate, but not necessarily inherently more damaging, armour makes you harder to hit, but doesn't actually soften any blows, attacks are almost entirely based on how well the attacker rolls as opposed to how difficult the target is to hit, everything costs so much more, and you're encouraged to buy 4s and 0s at character creation, so something you want to be just GOOD at you don't have until three or four sessions in, I've never heard any sort of official ruling on whether you pay for missing dots (did Striking Looks cost 4xp and 8xp or 6xp and 20xp?)...
And that's not even touching on the major additions that have been made, like Conditions and Social Maneuvering, or the updated Integrity. Although I do think that some Conditions based on old Flaws and Derangements would be well worth it, and I hope we see those in 2e's core.
Some of the only things I don't like about 2e are that Defense went too high instead of too low (and not even that high; I'd just do higher of Athletics and [Brawl or Weaponry]) and I think some weapons should still be bashing (stuff like slapping someone with a gun shouldn't be lethal, even if a baseball bat should).
>>43653864
Striking Looks is 4 and 8. If there's no option to have the merit in various amounts of dots, it just costs the flat amount. Stuff like Retainer or Fighting Styles where it says "* to *****" is when you have to fill in previous dots before getting to new ones. Striking Looks says "** or ****".
>>43653928
You can see how that's confusing though, right? Changing one letter around means the difference of a dozen dots.
And that's really, really the least of what's being complained about.
>>43653928
>I've never heard any sort of official ruling
I've been on MUSHes with both ways of doing it.
>>43653945
Not really. Everyone at my table came to the same conclusion. I wouldn't say it's wrong to do it the other way though, just that there's way more evidence for it being done one way over another.
Also, I'm not trying to have an actual discussion about the differences between 1e and 2e. Never played 2e, mostly because I'm just starting a game of 1e today and I feel like I shouldn't be looking at those books while this game is currently ongoing. I just read something in your post I'm pretty sure I had the answer to.
>>43653966
There's literally no evidence of it being done either way. In fact, from what I can tell the "official" way might actually be the more convoluted one.
I mean, I always ruled that you don't pay for missing dots, but still, my point was that there's no OFFICIAL ruling, at least none that I saw.
>>43652494
>Can you make a antisocial bum Ventrue?
Only if he or she became an antisocial bum down the line as he or she watched the world go to shit over the centuries or something. Blue Bloods wouldn't Embrace some loser, shut-in fag.
>>43654037
>My Fair Lady of the Night
Are any of the Paths of Enlightenment not shit? The only ones that seem even remotely usable are Honorable Accord and Power and Inner Voice.
>>43654050
You mean the 'Paths of Whatever I Was Going To Do Anyway'? I ban them in my games from PCs, and only use them to highlight crazy shit ancient-ass NPCs do.
>>43654048
...yeah, you got me
1e nWoD
Buddy of mine came up with the brilliant idea of extending the range a grenade could be thrown by hitting it with a baseball bat.
If there's a system for this already, stop me. Way I ruled it, he has to make an Athletics + Dexterity roll to see if he can hit the grenade in mid-air after tossing it, but if he gets an amount of successes totaling more than the size of the grenade + 1, he breaks the grenade and it. If he doesn't break it, he can launch it an extra yard per success he achieves. After doing this a few times ("I'm gonna make if work, dammit"), I created a merit for him. 1 dot through 5 dots, with a couple of advantages.
The first is that the initial part of the equation is now 2 x the grenade's size in damage, and the grenade is launched an extra yard before any successes are added to its range for free. The second is that for every dot you have in the merit, the grenade's break threshold increases by an additional one. So at three dots of the merit, the grenade can withstand (size x 2 + 4) points of damage before breaking, and is launched an amount of yards equaling (strength + dex + athletics - size [original throwing calculation] + successes achieved on swing + 1).
Is this too convoluted, too powerful, too wacky, or whatever?
>>43654059
But our game requires that we diablerize multiple niggas. Our Humanity is going to Hell in a Handbasket, Anon. The Storyteller even recommended thinking about Path preferences.
>>43654082
And that's fine. If the ST is telling you to take a path, take a path. Find something that fits with your worldview. Or take the most broken-ass Path you can find.
I just have a severe hate for Paths; outside of one Assamite player who did the OLD Road of Blood 'judges of the Vampires' well, I have never seen them used as anything but 'Path of Whatever I Was Going To Do Anyway' to offset humanity loss.
>>43654050
They're purposely supposed to be out there, they're not human thinking patterns.
There's a couple of them that are really good but they're utterly transhumanistic.
>>43654082
<--
>>43654152
Isn't that how they'd be used in-setting? Or at least, in setting the people who take the path will do that. You might as well say Clans are "what I was going to do anyway"
>>43654152
>>43654158
Fair points on all fronts. I need to find something that's a reasonable transition from being an upstanding, diligent WIZARD. Preferably something that promotes coterie cohesion and WIZARDRY.
Too many of these Paths are either Crazy Shut-In or Treacherous Retard.
>>43654197
http://whitewolf.wikia.com/wiki/Path_of_the_Scorched_Heart
This is the classic wizard/sage path. It was made by the True Brujah to help them deal with their cold hearts and slow but steady loss of humanity.
Basically the coldly logical path.
>>43654167
>>43654167
To an extent. But Paths are still supposed to be belief systems, completely inhuman ways you look at the world around you, and in practice I never see them used (which is why I disallow them as ST, I Have a hard time setting the stage for them) well. People will be on them, but won't RP them and just say 'Oh, my Path, that's not a sin!' on something like, say, Path of the Feral Heart or Path of Night. And it gets old and hard to deal with.
>>43653119
The God-Machine could be a super-Magath or something, made up of spirits of Order, Control, and Experimentation.
Was thinking of using blood beats for an upcoming VtR game. Anyone have any experience doing so? Good idea, bad idea?
>Playing a Highlander hitman
>Other party members are a Sorcerer and a Tzimisce
>We're poker buddies
>Tzimisce is on Honorable Accord and thus is required to hang out when we decide to do shit
>I get jobs from Vampires, both Camarilla and Sabbat
>Camarilla hire me to kill a Lasombra commander
>We break into his company
>Start to steal shit
>Find guy asleep at 2am on a Sunday at his desk
>Cover face and begin to ask him things
>Tzimisce begins to fix his heart and removes his pace maker
>We get into a deep heart to heart with the guy as to why he's asleep at his desk at 2am on the weekend
>Find out he works for the Lasombra and is his son in law and his wife is a cheating whore
>Offer to kill his wife, make him young again, and get him a new 18 year old girl in exchange for helping us kill his father in law
>He agrees and tells us there's a party going on at his house for Halloween
>We go to the house and find them
>Lasombra's granddaughter is dating a Brujah anarch
>Tzimisce takes him off and proceeds to teach the Brujah manners
>Sorcerer seduces daughter, fucks her, and knocks her out
>I seduce the mom, take her to her room and proceed to take her hostage, making her call dad
>Goad Lasombra into attacking us
>Sorcerer uses supersoakers and lighters he found to make flamethrowers and dumps alcohol into the tank
>Room goes dark
>Use my lucky charm and take a pop shot into the dark and hit the Lasombra
>He runs out the window screaming
>Draw my enchanted sword and kill him
>>43654767
Can you clarify? What would a Blood Beat do in your game?
>>43654767
No experience, but logic would say that if you want the players to quickly grow to power, they are a very good choice, so best for scenarios where the PCs are neonates that are up-and-coming to upset the status quo.
It also is a gameplay incentive to actually be vampiric, which helps if your players otherwise tend to play superheroes with sunlight allergy.
>>43655071
An extra set of Beats you get for "vampiric" actions that can only be spent on raising Blood Potency. Essentially Arcane Beats, but for Kindred.
>>43655035
Average oWoD game then?
>>43655035
>Tzimisce diablerizes him
>I get paid for killing him
>Sheriff thinks I'm just some insane human
>Next day, I need to find a bank because group is made that I keep my money in sacks with dollar signs on it in a room in my apartment
>Spend the entire day walking around trying to find banks
>All need a social security number which I don't have
>Get annoyed and break into the Malkavian Prince's manor and demand he finds me a bank
>Prince thinks that I'm the proper type of insane and gives me a pay raise for my next assignment
>Eventually get a bank account
>Next job is cleaning out the sewers of the city from the Tzimisce monsters in there
>It's basically VtMB sewers
>Our Tzimisce makes his own giant monster
>We go into the sewers
>There's a Vozhd
>Apparently it can't hit the broad side of a barn
>I just casually dodge it
>I get bored and start to swing back
>First blow hits it so hard that it gets knocked onto it's back
>Second blow cuts it in half
>Third kills it
>Party sits there in disbelief as I just killed a siege weapon in about 5 seconds
>Turn to our Nosefertu escort
"Please tell me you got that on tape, because I don't think I'll be able to find another one to do that again."
Apparently they did get it on tape. The Vampires are batshit weirded out now by me. The Prince thinks I'm the greatest thing since the slinkie. And our Tzimisce is happy he got to test his own monster against an Elder.
>>43655035
>Highlander fansplat
>>43655102
Oh, OK. Yeah, that'd probably work out fine in the long run. I might give that a try myself.
>>43655125
>The Prince thinks I'm the greatest thing since the slinkie.
just wait until he finds an escalator.
>>43655109
Far from it.
The second session involved me killing Jason from Friday the 13th. It was our Halloween game session.
He attack some paranormal investigator group. We all could detect the evil and knew the place was haunted but they refused to listen to us. We started making bets on how people would die.
They were just getting killed left and right because they kept doing cliche horror movie things. So we just stood there perfectly still and watched them all die over the course of an hour.
Then he eventually came over and I barely managed to beat him in a fight. Guy was impossibly strong. Werewolves would have had trouble with him cause of how much soak he had. He had like 13 dice of soak.
>>43654767
I'd say they're a good idea. Try to encourage your players to spend their non-Blood Experiences on things that would otherwise be suboptimal but flavorful choices. For example, 2e Vampire renders buying up something like Strength or Stamina literally pointless until you've already maxed out Vigor/Resilience, because those two disciplines do everything Strength/Stamina does, for free, plus extra stuff, for the same XP cost (or even cheaper, if they're in-clan for you!)
Adding in an Arcane XP analog is pretty freeing.
>>43655208
So the highlander fansplat is decent then?
I've always wanted to play it (love the movie, plus I was kinda named after Connor MacCleod), but figured it might be kinda shitty
>>43655308
>For example, 2e Vampire renders buying up something like Strength or Stamina literally pointless until you've already maxed out Vigor/Resilience, because those two disciplines do everything Strength/Stamina does, for free, plus extra stuff, for the same XP cost (or even cheaper, if they're in-clan for you!)
To be fair, that is a feature, not a bug.
Making you prioritise buying Vigor and Resilience over Strength and Stamina encourages becoming more vampire.
More Vigor also means a higher chance of straight up killing someone when you do use the Damage boost, even if you may not have intended to. And that is how you get drama!
More Resilience means an easier time breaking the Masquerade by being a mass of torn flesh and bone that has no right to still walk in a sane universe. Drama!
>>43655369
Shit's awesome.
Take the immunity to pain flaw and you can pretty much ignore anything that doesn't instantly kill you.
Need to get to the bottom of a skyscraper from the top? Jump down and just heal when you land.
Need to get through a hail of gunfire? Just walk through it and keep healing as you do.
You're basically an unstoppable train to things at Vampire level or lower. Just don't piss off Mages or Werewolves and you're golden.
>>43630197
The supernaturals are all invested in keeping the world from knowing they exist so its likely that any time someone gets uppity and tries any big terrorist thing or tries to take over the world, other supernaturals are there to stop them.
>>43655475
Indeed, I think the assumption of the "default" setting is that the various conspiracies keep each other in an intentional and unintentional deadlock.
>>43655475
That's what's great about the supernatural world, no matter how powerful you think you are, there's someone or something more badass lurking right around the corner.
>>43655308
>>43655377
Isn't it 4xp in-clan, 5xp out of clan?
>>43655580
I think its 3/4. In respective out of clan.
>>43655580
No, in-Clan is 3 EXP, out-of-Clan 4 EXP.
Supernatural powers in 2e are generally priced quite generously.
>>43655580
no, it's 3 experiences in-clan, 4 out-of-clan.
>>43655394
Might have to give it a go at some point then.
I'm guessing that from your story that you are playing it in a mainly Vampire game. Do they gel well?
I'm currently playing Demon: the Unchained, and figured that if it goes tits up and my demon dies that I might begin as an immortal, blaming the God-machine for making me outlive my family and friends, and creating the twisted rules of the Game.
>>43655580
>Isn't it 4xp in-clan, 5xp out of clan?
No, those are the costs for Arcana. 4 XP up to your Realm's limit (5 in Ruling, 4 in Common, 2 in Inferior), 5 past that limit, according to the Paths blog (the blog also indicates that past your limit you can only spend Normal XP on it, though more recent comments from Dave indicate that it's now only Arcane XP past your limit, which makes more sense anyway.)
>>43655739
> (5 in Ruling, 4 in Common, 2 in Inferior)
I feel that makes it almost pointless to have the cost-scaling in the first place.
Realistically, you are not going to raise your Inferior past 2 unless you turn it Ruling from your Legacy and then it does not matter anymore.
+1 EXP to raise a Common to Master. Woopdedoo. That is barely worth the word count. How many players actually play third or fourth-degree Masters where this is likely to come up in a meaningful way?
>>43655832
I played a game where everyone ended up as third-degree Masters, but we all had a third Ruling from a Legacy by that point.
>>43655876
Which I take as a case-in-point.
