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>What have you done so far?
Here's our main document, which contains all of our ideas recorded en masse:
>https://docs.google.com/document/d/15kJXvBVinsbst0tMWmzwaUj5ddk0hotd3nifw3Hs720/edit

We also have a couple supplementary documents:

The Psychlopedia
>https://docs.google.com/document/d/1yjonEzY_gVzJm5FyYksoDnx1otVEBpjAA8K1Ozw3eZU/edit
This is a rundown of all the Psychs in the source game. As we develop the system these will be fleshed out with actual mechanics.

The Thread Count:
>https://docs.google.com/document/d/16Uc3YJ-yRMoDhNc90EK5Ao0WOrubO0Gnl8ixIYQOEZs/edit
This is going to catalog the various Threads (clothing) and Brands from the source game, as a resource for GMs to use in their own games.

The Couture Matrix:
>https://docs.google.com/document/d/1850Ubwvdlqe0_9hk176tZ91-ykkJFlHX2XeS2VAA5Gw/edit
Rules for randomly rolling new Threads.

>What's on the Agenda?
We're still working the fine points of the Resolution System, including numerical limits and difficulty.

We're also still trying to work out a decent way to cope with the source game's Shared HP and Combo mechanics. Here are some Strawpolls that we're using to get a feel for how the contributors think it should be handled:
>Determining whether HP should be communal or individual.
http://www.strawpoll.me/10500715
>Finalizing how turn order and the light puck pass system work.
http://www.strawpoll.me/10500643

Previous thread:
>>47751822

So, Skills

As explained in the previous thread, the idea is that Skills can be used with any Stat, and doing so has different effects depending on the combination. To prevent this from being overly free-form, the idea is to make sure that the parameters of each combination are well laid out.

To use a Skill, you roll the Stat you're trying to use and count each die equal to or under your Skill as a success. This is written as Skill: Stat

Here are a couple examples:

Speak: your ability to communicate with other people.
>Speak:Rhythm- Threaten, intimidate or interrogate
>Speak: Flow- Lie to, smooth- or sweet-talk
>Speak: Insight- Reason and negotiate
>Speak: Bravery- Motivate and inspire

Fight: Deal with someone using physical force. Most beings in the Underground can't be permanently injured with physical violence outside of certain instances, but you can be restrained or incapacitated-- a big problem when there's a time limit ticking away.
>Fight:Rhythm- Beat someone down with a rapid, brutal assault
>Fight:Flow- Outfox your opponent with slipper moves
>Fight:Insight- Hit them where it counts and where they can't protect themselves
>Fight:Bravery- Charge headlong into danger, throwing everything you've got behind your blow

One more (I've an appointment I need to head out to in about 20 minutes). I think this really shows how the concept of Skill:Stat can have some interesting uses.

Protect: Keep someone or something from being harmed. With Rhythm and Flow, you can protect yourself. With Insight and Bravery you can protect others.
>Protect: Rhythm- Block a threat coming at you
>Protect: Flow- Remove yourself from harm’s way
>Protect: Insight- Detect and predict impending danger
>Protect: Bravery- Intercept a blow meant for someone else

Hey, thanks for putting the thread up.

>>47804327
Protect is a perfect example of the kind of delineating parameters that I was discussing. Essentially each stat has its own "skills" (for example, in another system, Protect: Flow would be more of an "Evade" while Protect: Rhythm might be "Guard") but that fit under the same umbrella. The question will be how many skills we want to have and how specific we want them to be. There are also a few types of skills that I'm not sure about being able to spread over all four, such as perception-type skills or knowledge-type skills, but I'm sure we could figure it out.

I also came up with a few ideas regarding trust, stickers, and sync that I'll write up shortly.

Last thought: Since we have like a million Psychs, we should probably keep the Skill list relatively short. This works just fine since each Skill really splits into four sub-skills, so you don't need a wide array of things to do.

Bear in mind too that the setting of the Reaper's Game is urban centers, so Skills should be related to life in that setting.

Agreed? Any suggestions for other Skills? I'd hate to see this thread go under before it begins.

>>47804625
If I were to just give a number off the top of my head that feels right I'd say no more than 12 Skills.

>>47804628
I'm here, just looking over the google docs, seeing what I can contribute.

For skills, I keep looking at FATE games because they tend to have the same kind of idea we're striving for, but I'm having a hard time thinking of actions that could be as flexible as the ones already proposed.

Movement? I'm not sure if it would complicate things having to roll to keep up with something/one outside of combat.

Rhythm could be barreling through the groups of people you'd have in a crowded city.
Flow is obvious, just weaving to and fro, trying not to hit people/things.
Insight could be more parkour like, jumping over obstacles with precision and grace.
Bravery... is where I draw a blank. Like Rhythm, only more likely to trip over something?

>>47804894
Bravery would be like trying to jump on top of a car to avoid foot traffic

Miscellanous: As was mentioned in the previous thread, players should have some sort of object through with they channel their powers. If that object is removed, the player can no longer use psychs/pins until they regain the object or find a new object with enough emotional resonance that they channel psychs again.

As I've mentioned before, players will have a unique Trust stat that shows how much they trust another character. This mostly applies to other PCs but can also apply to NPCs. Trust runs from 0 to 10. 0 means that you do not trust the other person whatsoever in any capacity, such as a friend who has recently betrayed you, or an antagonist who killed your friend or family. 10 means that you trust them completely and wholly to such an extent that it is impossible for the typical human being to achieve. Most people probably regard strangers at 2-4 Trust, with a typical friend being something like 5-6. Higher levels of trust are much more difficult to achieve.

Trust stats can be a double-edged sword. The higher your Trust in, the easier it is to pass them the puck and to perform synchronous combinations. However, this is a double-edged sword. The higher your Trust in someone, the more effective their skills are against you -- this means both beneficial skills and harmful skills. Additionally, your ability to damage them decreases. If you are in a situation where you trust deeply in the other person but they do not trust you at all, they can easily betray you and hurt you much more easily than some random scrub.

During combat, when the player decides to whom to pass the puck, both players roll their respective Trust stats to one another. If Player A has 7 trust in Player B, and Player B has 5 trust in Player A, the baseline probability of successfully passing the puck is 35% without any additional boosts.

(Cont.)

>>47805210
Each time the puck is passed between two players, regardless of whether or not it was passed successfully (i.e. with the bonus), the synchronisation between those two players increases which charges their respective Fusion attack. More powerful Fusion attacks (gated by the total Trust; first tier Fusion might require 5 total Trust, second tier 10 total Trust, and third tier 15 total Trust) require a longer charge time and cost more AP. Once the gauge is full, both players have to agree when to activate it (must be done as an action), which immediately decreases both of their APs and the synchro gauge and unleashes a powerful dual-attack.

Since we were talking about using foodstuffs as temporary stat boosts, we can use stickers as temporary boosts for skills and other effects such as sync and puck passing. Perhaps you can only buy stickers for other people, and cannot use stickers on yourself (or the ones you use on yourself are less effective).

After each successful day in the Game, and after particularly fraught scenes per the GM's discretion, a player can choose to roll their Trust in the other person. If they roll OVER their Trust, they can increase their trust in the person by one. This makes it more difficult to gain levels of Trust if you already have a high level of Trust. If a player has reason to suspect or distrust another character, they can decrease their Trust by 1 per day, unless the other player openly betrays them, in which the player can set their Trust of the other character to 0 at the end of the day. All changes in Trust only apply at the end of the day moving on to the next day.

(Cont.)

>>47805263
Players can also tell another player about their entry fee to immediately increase Trust by [some amount that we need to balance], but in return damage against them is doubled, unless that player's Trust is decreased to 0 in which case damage resets. i.e. Player A tells Player B that their entry fee was so-and-so. Now Player B can do double damage against Player A on top of any Trust bonuses, unless Player A's Trust in Player B hits 0.

I'm not married to any of these ideas, just throwing them out there. Feel free to pick and choose things or rip 'n' tear and tell me I'm off my rocker.

>>47804628
We can start with the basic skills. Beyond Speak, Fight, and Protect, we might want some sort of physical stat or two for things such as breaking down doors, leaping over obstacles, sneaking around, or what have you. We could either split that up into a few different stats or simply use the four subsets to split that up. For mental skills, we might want to have something of an awareness or perception skill, some sort of knowledge skill for things like fashion and technology, some sort of "creative arts" skill for things like writing/cooking/sewing, and perhaps some kind of skill of mental resolve. Movement might be a good idea given time limits and all of that. Speaking of which, we should probably hash out some sort of time mechanic. I like the idea of having it be grounded mechanically with the ability for the GM to handwave or flub if necessary built in.

We could also include FATE-like Aspects that are unique to eah character to allow for things like a fine knowledge of fashion or the ability to drive a car. Essentially this would be a limited number of custom skills that add dice to an existing roll if the aspect is appropriate.

>>47804625
Knowledge type skills are easy. Method and "drawback" included
Know: Rhythm- Consider the most obvious details, and "brute force" the answer. Can waste large amounts of time to get suboptimal answers.
Know: Flow- Quickly build off what you know. Flawed premises often lead to mental dead ends, and distraction is a valid concern.
Know:insight- Consider everything you can think of to come to your conclusion.
Incorrect assumptions and evidence tend to lead to extremely wrong conclusions
Know:Bravery- go with your gut feeling and assume the first thing you deduced as true. Tends to end either fantastic or badly based on accuracy.
>>47805279
>FATE-like Aspects
Paranoia has custom skills that work like that. Speed-shopping could be an actual skill in this scenario, and if I remember correctly they are added on-the-spot. I don't actually know FATE, is that kind of how they work?

>>47805396
Hm, could you describe the way that Paranoia does it? What do you mean that they're added on the spot?

In FATE, you can select a certain number of Aspects at the beginning that you can then apply to get bonuses on relevant rolls. For example, Shiki might have an aspect of "Aspiring Fashionista" which would give her a bonus on anything to do with fashion. Ideally, Aspects in FATE have both positive and negative qualities so that the player can invoke them to get bonuses and the GM can invoke them to make things more difficult for the player. Someone might create the Aspect "Tech Nerd" that grants them bonuses when it comes to technology or computers, but that detracts from their ability to perform in social situations. With regards to "Aspiring Fashionista", Shiki might find it difficult to do things that go against trends or might have to roll a resolve check to wear something ugly even if it has better stats.

Also, mechanically, how would those Knowledge skills differ?

>>47805554
Fate's is better for our purposes, I would think. I'll avoid the spiel. Long story short: retroactively get extremely narrow skills(examples modified from paranoia: Eat bag of potato chips in 4 secends, get vending machine to stop making that funny noise, suck up to Pieface)
As for mechanical knowledge differences... I thought I knew what I was talking about until I tried thinking harder. I got nothing.

>>47806433
It might work if instead of a knowledge skill we made it more of a general mental skill, so that one might be more "Logic thinking" while another one might be "reading the mood" (as in social intelligence, somewhat like 'Read Person' from other systems), and another might be a perception-esque skill or general science knowledge. I'm not sure how those would map to RFIB but we can figure it out.

We could use aspects to cover specific areas of knowledge such as being able to drive a car or knowing a great deal about how to make clothing.

Any opinions on the trust mechanics I described?

>>47806563
Possibly instead of Know, we go with something like Think.
Think: Rhythm - Rhythm confronts things directly and looks at what's there. This is somewhat like a Notice skill, allowing you to take in your surroundings as they are if you have a few moments to process.
Think: Flow - Flow here is all about alternate paths and ideas. Think: Flow can help you to spot red herrings and misdirections that might seem too good to be true, or let you figure out an alternate way around a situation like a smashed bridge through a different solution. When things to awry another path can present itself. ALTERNATIVELY...something else that makes more sense 'cause this is the one I'm really unsure of.
Think: Insight - Read the mood of people around you. Gain Insight into their motivations and emotions. Similar to 'Read Person' in other systems, combined with an understanding of body language. You might even be able to predict their strikes in battle, or know what someone needs to hear, or when someone is lying. ALTERNATIVELY This is akin to "logic" and is used to help figure out puzzles and the like, but I'm worried about interfering with the players (not the in-game Players, the IRL people) figuring out the puzzles themselves.
Think: Bravery - In a pinch, someone brave might look around and figure out a reckless but potentially This is somewhat like Notice, but it applies less to details and more to immediate circumstances. Cornered by a gang member? You might notice the streetlamp overhead is about to fall on both of you. ALTERNATIVELY, Think: Bravery might be about Resolve and steeling oneself to the challenge, essentially given oneself the confidence one needs to do something, like an internal pep-talk. This could be used to defy one of your aspects, or even to fight against someone who had betrayed you. I like the second one better by the way.

With the current "Fight" skill, for example, how would those really differ?

>>47805210
>>47805263
The trust mechanics that you're dropping seem pretty solid so far. I like them, especially the options to decrease trust which allows for some dynamic relationships between players.

>>47807388
And the Think system you're proposing here is nice, sort of like a boost when the players can't figure out the answer or can't quite make a more straightforward roll.
And I don't think that Think:Flow is that bad of a concept, the way you're describing it sounds like the GM would give the player multiple methods to attack a problem, but not the exact stats they'd need to successfully use that method.

What I'm getting from these skills is that they're more of a roleplaying mechanic rather than a battle mechanic. Which means that it's up to the GM to come up with which skill would result in a better outcome.
For example, if a player needs to get some information out of a mousy/shy character, and they decide that they'd have a better chance of rolling a success by using Talk:Bravery they could. Even if they succeed, the GM could say that the character now has lower trust in the player now because they scared them with their enthusiasm.

We should really explain that it's up to the GM to add consequences to the player's actions depending on which stat they end up using, that way you can't try to swiss army your way through a game with only one stat.

>>47807388
I think you're going a bit too abstract here. The ideas are good but my thought is that players will be uncertain as the value of these Skills, and GMs will have a hard time building challenges around them. What I'd suggest is more concrete, with some wiggle room.

Think: You draw from the well of knowledge you've pooled from your life experiences. This skill includes both your approach to problem solving and the things you've learned through your mindset.
>Think: Rhythm- You're streetwise, knowing the facts about life on the rougher side of the tracks.
>Think: Flow- You know about how people act and move and what motivates them.
>Think: Insight- Your ceaselessly curious mind has accumulated a wealth of facts and figures.
>Think: Bravery- You know yourself. You can call upon this knowledge to steel your resolve in the face of threats that challenge your notion of what's real.

>>47807864
I want Trust to be able to fluctuate but only over time, and I chose the delayed changes in Trust so that players don't try to shimmy their way out of the mechanical consequences immediately.

The Think system is meant to cover what would be mental skills in other systems -- awareness, alternate paths, resolve, and the like. The purpose is to get players to consider all stats equally or to realise that they need other players, rather than being able to "swiss army" the game with one stat as you said. That is exactly why I wanted to delineate the circumstances under which each stat would be used. I'm not too much of a fan of minmaxing because it tends to narrow the viable builds in a system.

I agree entirely about the GM's consequences, and I also think that a less-than-optimal skill would have a much higher difficulty in terms of required successes. Trust is important to NPCs as well, since players have more influence over NPCs who have greater trust in the players. That includes shopkeeps and the like. Ideally we will create a system in which all stats and skills are used with somewhat equivalent frequency -- I know that in certain other homebrews such as Adeptus Evangelion, a handful of skills come up much more often while many others are entirely useless outside of roleplay flavour. Obviously no system is perfect and it will depend on the game, but I would like to avoid it if possible.

We should call the GM something entertaining, like the Conductor or Producer, in the actual rulebook.

REMINDER TO VOTE. THIS IS THE FINAL POLL UNLESS WE GET A TIE.
http://www.strawpoll.me/10500715
http://www.strawpoll.me/10500643

>>47808535
That also makes sense and works well for me. I suppose I was looking towards some kind of notice/perception skill around there somewhere. Also, welcome back.

If no one has any real dissents with the Trust system, I'll copy it over to the document, and from there we can always alter everything as needed. Again, I'm not married to any of these concepts, just trying to hash out things we haven't covered.

We should also start to stat psychs so that we understand what happens with the action economy. Ideally, we want pins of relative tier of usefulness to have the same "impact" in the same AP. We could also consider status effects.

Rather than pins just becoming better, however, I would really like for them to become more diverse, such as through suicide tactics (i.e. LASS and BOY), status effects, or some such.

>>47808697
Won't be able to post much for the rest of the night though, but I'm definitely going to draft up Perception skills tomorrow.

>>47809519
No worries, I'll do my best to keep the thread alive. I might start writing up an explanation of the Reaper game and various examples of tasks.

if we hit a slow spot, we could always try making some pins or threads or something
even if they aren't included in the book, at least it's better than bumps

We should probably figure out how much damage we want to be doing, and whether damage should be static for each pin or require a damage roll. I'm inclined to static damage for easier balancing and to cut down the number of rolls.

>>47810027
I'll definitely have that on my radar for tomorrow.

>>47810545
Part of the beauty of the TBZ system is how easily it translates into damage. Examples could include a Psych dealing damage equal to # of Successes +X, or X damage per Success. That way you never need to make a separate damage roll, which always slows down combat, especially if players are making multiple attack actions in their turn.

>>47811478
I like Successes + X better than times since times means a slight difference in stats can translate to a huge lead

>>47811478
That's fair. I'm inclined to keep the numbers small for easy addition and the like, so ideally we'd see damage in the single numbers for me. Of course if others have a different preference...

Anyway I'll start to move the Trust mechanics over to the doc, as well as the idea of Aspects if everyone is all right with it.

So a Bravery-based character is your stereotypical shonen protagonist, Flow is the character with the silver tongue, Insight is the brains and Rhythm is the thug, correct?

>>47812783
looks like it
the question is, how would you choose to blend them together into one character?

>>47812859
Insight+Flow is Joshua
Rhythm+Bravery is Beat
Bravery+Insight is Neku

>>47812943
Arguably, at the start of the game, Neku had more Rhythm than Bravery. I'd also list him as a combination of the two instead of Insight, even if he does show moments of intelligence.

Another day Neku is full Bravery though.

>>47813276
True, Neku changed his build as the game went on. But by the end of Week 1 even, he'd started to change to Bravery+Insight instead of Rhythm+Bravery. After all, he never once questioned Shiki being his entry fee week 2.

>>47813447
So he started out with more points in Rhythm, then took mostly advancements in Insight.

I'm not sure what Shiki would be. Flow + Bravery, maybe?

>>47813447
I'd argue that even before the end of week 1, he had grown to be more Brave.

Depending on how the numbers play out, are stats going to be given approximately once every 2-3 days? 1/day is a bit too much, and the progression feels about right if you're playing for a longer time (say a reaper's game goes over a month).

>>47813591
It'll probably be up to the GM. If the intent is to play just a single week like the typical Reaper's Game goes, then 1/day would be too little. If it's longer, then the advancements should likewise take longer. I imagine that there will be guidelines on what an endgame character should look like, and then the GM can spread out the stat boosts as long as he plans the campaign to go.

Actually, the system could benefit from something similar to Advancements from Magical Burst. An Advancement might be a stat increase, a skill increase, a new ability, what have you.

>>47808697
Wow, these polls are really tied. How are we going to decide?

>>47813641
Depending on how powerful you want your characters at the end of the week, sure. I'd still argue that skill increases and stat increases should be separate. Stats are arguably stronger, as they effect a larger amount of things. However, skills could probably be given 1 per day if your stats are 1 per 2-3 days. If you want quick progression, 1 stat and 2 skills per day feels about right.

>>47813652
Then I guess we discuss what we like about our preferred choices over the other, trying to bring the other side around.

For example, with passing the puck, I believe combopass is better because it's more true to the game. I'm not a fan of initiativepass because of this, but also I feel that initiative should be based on either Flow or a separate stat, say how much AP you have at the end of the round or something. AP could be a different stat as well, which can be leveled up to gain more as you get stronger.

So yeah, initiativepassing doesn't feel right.

Alternatively, we could playtest these things and decide that way.

>>47814007
To me, Initiativepass is better because it actually does reflect the game better. Against highest-level threats, your attention naturally shifts between who has the puck, either to pass it quickly if you're doing a Heaven's strategy, or against Taboo Noise, you're doing it to maximize damage with who has the puck.

>>47814007
The trouble with combo pass is that the tabletop game won't play exactly as the game. For example, in the game, you can continue to attempt to pass the puck until you combo or the puck fails. In the combo pass system, you would have to wait an entire round for a chance to pass the puck again, whereas in the game you typically focused on the person with the puck until they passed it (which, I believe, is how most people played it). Combo passing also puts light puck emphasis on psych rather than inter-player trust or synchro or whatever. That said, it'd be pretty easy to implement the light puck combo passing system as separate from some sort of once-per-turn synchro charging for successful trust rolls, so that both playstyles are rewarded. I'm just worried it would get complicated rather quickly.

Combo pass does feel more true to the game, so I'd like to figure out a way for it to work.

Perhaps, players still popcorn, but the person who holds the puck automatically goes first at the end of a given round, to give the players more opportunities to pass it?

What if we combined combopass and initiativepass into one? You still popcorn the puck around, but instead of deciding the bonus based on a trust roll, the bonus is based on a combo. If you fail to perform a combo, the bonus is lost, and the puck is passed with +0 AP. If you successfully perform a combo, then the puck is passed with whatever bonus AP +1.

I mean, in the game, if you didn't combo quickly enough you lose the puck and have to start over.

>>47814131
>>47814142
Ah, I get that. I always played with the AI and only focused on the bottom screen.

However, if you have combopass, you can pass it on your turn, so either the next player has it or whoever you think can keep the combo going better can get it. It would still be able to be passed to the next person in the initiative, but you can also choose to have it go to someone else.

The idea behind it is that, while it can still be passed through the initiative, if someone is planning to do something that won't continue the combo, they can say "skip me, I'm doing this thing" like stealing a pin back from a bird or something.

Also, with combopass, you have the ability to use the light puck speed thread ability, going from 1 person/round to passing at the end of their turn on the round.

>>47804894
I'd think Bravery to be more along the line of moving forward with purpose, with others getting out of his way.
Try it next time you're in a crowd. Fix your gaze on the point you're going and move with purpose and usually you can get through with very little resistance.

>>47814368
You mean sort of like how people assume you're supposed to be there as long as you act like it?

>>47814177
This seems like a good idea to encourage the gameplay style from the game, but at the same time it feels like things might get kind of repetitive if everyone's just trying to combo

>>47816894
This is kind of a thing with all rpg combat to some extent though. The way rpgs provide mixups to 'repeat what we do every time' is to give enemies interesting powers, immunities, or abilities, to change the environment to be different or challenging, to add vulnerabilities of a different sort (protect X, do X before Y happens).

Finally, you can allow changeups of powers and abilities. Taking inspiration from Neku more than the others, you could allow a buildup of a range of a lot of very specific powers, but only allow a very limited number into combat. Before each combat, a quick choice of which you're using? Link number allowed into combat to one of the core stats?

I'm not being super helpful here since I havent read the whole system, and probably won't until it's more finished, but I like the idea behind this.

>>47816894
>>47817057
sry to elaborate on this point- it's ok to simplify the core mechanics of combat, even to the point where the 'default most efficient behaviour' might be quite similar fight-to-fight. The key is to build enough mechanics into the enemies and environment to make it more interesting.

Taking a simpler system as an example, FATE combat boils down, at it's most efficient, to all your players taking it in turn to set up advantages ('i trip him over', 'i blind him' etc), and then having one person hit the enemy really damn hard. This doesn't happen super often, since most of the time the situation is too complex to allow perfect comboing.

>>47814303
Does the Combopass also use a Trust roll to successfully pass the puck? Because that's what I think I'm having trouble with. I like the puck being passed by Trust, but if it also requires a complete Combo then you run into the problem of having two vectors for failure, which makes the game more random and take longer. You can successfully pull off your Combo but fail your Trust roll and end up back to square one. Pure Trustpass seems smoother and more sensible to me.

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How set are we on the 10-sector battlefield idea?

Because I had some shower thoughts about it this morning and I think we can do better. My concern with it is that it's going to slow down combat, which should be fast and relatively free-wheeling, just like the action in the game. Moreover it's going to compel the use of a battlemap to keep track of where everything is, which I'm not sure is the best idea and it makes playing over the web harder.

Here's what I thought of instead:

The Noise Battlefield is has five Zones: North, South, East, West and Center, so if you wanted a battlemap you could make one real easily by drawing a circle with a smaller circle in the center, and evenly dividing the remaining space.

It costs 1 AP to move between adjacent zones, so moving N-E costs 1 AP, as does moving from the Center to any of the outer zones. Moving N-S or E-W always means crossing the Center, unless you have a Teleport Psych, so it costs 2 AP.

Here's how this affects attack range:
>Range 0: You can target Noise in the same zone as you
>Range 1: You can target Noise in an adjacent zone
>Range Any: You can target Noise in any zone
>Range All: You can target all the Noise on the battlefield

>>47817229
No, the idea is that you pass the puck to someone you can trust, or to someone who needs it the most. Passing the puck isn't based on trust in the DS game, it just goes from one person to another as a damage multiplier for the puck holder's attacks.

In our game, once you use the puck, you pass it to the next person who needs it. If you don't trust them to keep the puck moving, you give it to someone else. No trust roll needed.

>>47817366
Okay that makes sense. So the two competing ideas are whether the puck is passed by completing combos or by making a trust roll at the end of each Round.

I'm still on the side of Trust rolls, for a couple reasons. First it gives players more incentive to build their trust, and I think it's a more thematically appropriate interpretation of the rule. In the source game, you always only had one partner to pass the puck to (except in the final boss fight), and the entire section of the game was about you building trust with them. I think that's best mirrored in our project by the Trustpass.

Secondly, it means that characters don't have to be combo focused. It should be possible for a character to focus on heavy single attacks over chaining smaller attacks together. Then again we still don't really know how combos are even going to work as of yet...

>>47817365
What's Anguis's range?

>>47817678
Any, and it would have an effect that if you fire it across multiple Zones it hits stuff along the way. So if you fire S-N it will hit Noise in the S,C and N Zones.

Lightning Bolt and Entanglement would probably have similar effects.

>>47817365
I figured maybe something like a 3x7 grid, which allows a teleport psyche room to maneuver and somewhat matches the size of the DS screen, and is also small enough to make movement a viable strategy for players if they don't have a teleport.

>>47817441
Combos would act similarly to they do in the game. Landing one big hit with a 1 use/round pin (massive hit, for example) will pass the puck immediately, but only the final hit of a 3 use/round pin (shockwave) would pass the puck.

And the trustpass makes less sense, to me, as it wasn't the combat that built trust. It was being literally and metaphorically bound to one another for a week and being forced to rely on one another to overcome obstacles. The puck only exists to power up your finisher and damage the taboo noise.

"Together, we are but twigs, but together we form the mighty faggot!" - the smart kid from the Simpsons

Seems like an important quote for this thread.

>>47817895
Fair enough, though it does sort of double-penalize a Player for failing to execute his combo by not only causing him to do less damage but also denying the puck.

On the other hand, that does create the need for the Hold That Puck Thread ability. If you have a Thread with H.T.P. you can keep it for an extra turn or two before it flickers out, giving you more time to fulfill a combo. So yeah I think that could definitely work.

Here's another Skill write-up, this one for Sense:

Sense: You can get a feel for the world around you-- the people that inhabit it and the forces that propel it.
>Sense: Rhythm- Detect sources of aggression and unseen dangers lurking about
>Sense: Flow- Feel out lies and when others are trying to manipulate you
>Sense: Insight- Notice subtle or hidden things and what troubles people
>Sense: Bravery- Sense causes of fear and motivation in others

Sense: Rhythm is your typical "roll to detect ambush" type thing, as well as your ability to read killing intent in others, which is actually a mechanic from TBZ.

Sense: Insight can be used as a general spot check as well as to pick-up on specific things that are bothering people.

I'm also redoing the Think skill because I didn't quite like how it read for Flow. Looking for a good solution...

>>47818012
Remember, only the final hit actually needs to connect. You can declare that the other attacks miss, you only need one to hit.

It actually goes the other way. If you need 3 successes to hit the target, but only get 2, it's a miss. If you have 2 successes and 3 failures for a flurry, you can declare the final hit and another as successes, but not the others.

Multi-hit attacks are weak individually, but pass the puck better.

Good morning thread!

>>47817365
I like this better than the 10-sector battlefield. My only concern is that this might make Teleport pysch less useful, as crossing the entire battlefield is only 2 AP. If the Teleport psych is 0 AP and simply uses up one of your pin slots, then I suppose it would be worth it. Otherwise it'd only have limited uses.

>>47817441
I'm in agreement that it gives players more incentive to build their trust. That said, perhaps we ought to have two different potential playstyles reflected. For example, we could have the puck passed by combos independent from turn order, so that (as has been stated elsewhere), a player could theoretically get excluded from the light puck entirely during a match. That means less overall group trust since you don't HAVE to trust anyone, but also encourages more dynamics.

We could retain the importance of trust rolls, however, if we use them to power fusion attacks instead. In other words, a group that isn't focused on combos would instead focus on trust to quickly unleash fusion after fusion, and both are valid playstyles.

My largest concern is that this would complicate remembering who has the puck. It's not that big of a deal -- in real life, you could simply have a physical object that is passed around. But while playing online it might be more bothersome, especially as you also have to keep track of whose turn is next. Putting light puck passing and turn order together simplifies the process, but it's not necessarily the best solution.

>>47818356
The Sense system is nice, though I'm concerned that Sense: Flow and Think: Flow might be similar. I would potentially try to split Sense: Insight and Sense: Bravery a bit more unless you can give me some examples (regarding people) where one or another might be useful but not the other.

>>47818469
That sounds like it would be easily abused. To counteract that you'd have to roll the hits in order, so that you can't pass the puck just on one success. Remember, we want puck passing to be more prominent later in the game rather than earlier, since it's a powerful tool.

>>47818356
Think:Flow would put you in the other person's shoes. It would help you get a better grasp on the situation based on how things have happened.

Like say, for example, if you receive a message saying "get to the other side of Shibuya" but the other days have been really hard (comparatively) then you would use this skill to think there might be an ambush coming up soon.

>>47818551
>My only concern is that this might make Teleport pysch less useful, as crossing the entire battlefield is only 2 AP. If the Teleport psych is 0 AP and simply uses up one of your pin slots, then I suppose it would be worth it.
One way that Teleport can be useful though is for it to also be an effective Defensive Pin as well, as in you can roll Teleport:Flow to evade an attack with greater effect than you could normally with Protect:Flow. That's how I see it at least.

Plus there's always the factor of it being really cool to be able to teleport around an arena, even if it isn't strictly useful. Truth be told I rarely ever used Teleport when I was playing.

>>47818574
remember that we were going to have a puck that was going to function as an initiative, so the last person in a 4 person party would have +4 AP by the end of the first round anyway.

That and I feel that trust is a terrible stat to have. Before I get booed out of here, I want to explain why I think that.

The Trust stat, afaik, is only used in combat and kept secret from the players. The DM then has the players at their mercy as to whether the puck is passed or not, and can quite easily screw over players with it.

In addition to that, Trust has no purpose other than that. It's a dead stat. Why invest precious character generation points if it's a hidden stat that does nothing?

Also, to address the concern of the puck multiplier being super high really fast, just add a pass- based multiplier. When it gets passed x times, where x is the size of the party or whatever, it goes up a step. Puck passing abilities on threads could then be adding more points for that each time it's passed.

>>47818709
It would depend on the amount of AP a character has. I've seen the number 6 thrown around a lot in this or the last thread, so going from 6 to 4 is really significant. If we're going from 10 to 8, it's still big, but not as much.

So basically, more AP means probably larger field.

>>47818711
For the record I feel that Trust shouldn't be kept secret from the players. After-all your Sync rating was quite clear in the source game. And in a game that's ABOUT trust to a large extent Players should be fully aware of their ability to Trust others.

>>47818749
The only way sync was gained was by eating food. Also, sync dropped as you fought. Also, it had nothing to do with the light puck, only combos for the ultimate skill.

>>47818805
Right, but it's impractical/impossible to covert all of the source game mechanics 1:1 into tabletop mechanics. Instead the goal of this conversion, as is the objective anytime a work is translated from one medium to another, is to preserve the spirit and feel of the work, not each specific detail.

In the source game, Sync was built by eating food because it was a way to reward you for grinding cash and taking your time instead of rushing through the game by making you more powerful. Your ability to interact with your partner was necessarily limited by programming restraints.

In tabletop format, those limits are almost exactly reversed. Grinding in tabletop is rarely much fun because a combat that takes 30 seconds on the DS might take 5-10 minutes on the table if you have a relatively quick and breezy system. There's also no good way of handling constantly changing numbers like that without slowing everything down to a crawl and requiring each Player do a lot of bookkeeping.

On the other hand, you're much more able to interact with characters in meaningful ways and find creative solutions around problems instead of working out the one correct, pre-programmed answer.

>>47818883
>Grinding in tabletop is rarely much fun because a combat that takes 30 seconds on the DS might take 5-10 minutes on the table if you have a relatively quick and breezy system. There's also no good way of handling constantly changing numbers like that without slowing everything down to a crawl and requiring each Player do a lot of bookkeeping.

Exactly, so why cover another stat which is almost entirely useless with one exception and require yet another roll before the turn ends every turn? Wouldn't it be easier to just say "Okay, that attack hit so the puck gets passed" than to force that? Not to mention, each trust stat would be different between each character, meaning you'd need to keep an easily modified number for each team member which you then need to ask them for their number and then make another roll after the turn based on that?

I mean, it'd be easier to have trust be something that is RP only, or have your players cooperate to get a better score or result.

Remember K.I.S.S. Keep It Simple, Stupid. If it doesn't feel necessary, or feels like a bulky addition that can be streamlined, keep it simple.

>>47819046
I definitely see where you're coming from, and I agree that the onus is on the developers to prove that a certain mechanic needs to be in a game.

I will say though that there are plenty of games where your relationship with other characters and NPCs is codified as is the plan here, and it works out great. I've no doubt that it can be done so here too.

I do have one comment on what's written about on the top of Trust in the Google Doc:

>he higher your Trust in someone, the more effective their skills are against you -- this means both beneficial skills and harmful skills. Additionally, your ability to damage them decreases. If you are in a situation where you trust deeply in the other person but they do not trust you at all, they can easily betray you and hurt you much more easily than some random scrub.

I feel like this isn't something that's going to matter in most games. Most Players at a table are going into the game with the express understanding that they're there to cooperate towards a certain goal. There's rarely any incentive to not cooperate with other players unless the game also has a competitive aspect, which is against the stated theme of the Reapers' Game. Conceptually it's aces, but in practice I'd predict that base case scenario it's largely ignored and worst case scenario it's a source of frustration for players.

Just for the heck of it I started uploading Threads from GameFAQS into the Thread Count. Like the Psych entries it's pretty bare bones until we have the combat mechanics more solidly built, but it's a start.

Someone with more knowledge of the design behind each Brand can do write-ups for the overall ideas and themes behind each.

Here's a random thing I was thinking about, before I head out for a big:

For Pins, our suggested way of Players handling them in their inventory could be for Pin info to be written on small slips of paper like cards, probably such that we can print 6 Pins on a normal 8.5x11 sheet.

It would have an open space where you can doodle or print the Pin's design, and the following lines:

>Name and Brand
>Psych
>Level and XP (if we want to track Pin XP like that)
>Damage and Range
>Effects
>Uses/Boot/Reboot

when a Pin's uses are exhausted, the Player turns the slip over, and on the back he's written its Boot/Reboot Time so he knows when it's ready again.

I thought that would be a more interesting way of handling Pins than just writing them on your character sheet, especially if we expect Players to have a rotating deck of Pins.

>>47819640
That's a great idea, and I'm not going into too much detail because bed and work and stuff, but perhaps making them printable sheets or if it's going to be printed, making a couple pages of cut-outs that you can fill in yourself.

Or you could have a deck of cards with the pins on them, 4 of each pin or something and blanks for personal pins.

>>47819733
That's definitely the idea.

Also regarding Pins:

Every Pin has a rating called its Magnitude. Magnitude, or Mag, is used to compare the relative combat power of Pins. Pins that do more damage, have more uses, greater range, less boot times and more special effects have a higher Mag rating.

Every Psych would have at least one Mag-0 Pin, which is the base-power version of that Psych. Every additional Pin using that same Psych is Mag-1 or higher. Two pins with the same Mag should be roughly equal in combat ability.

For example, consider a simple Shockwave Pin, like the one that Neku gets at the start of the game. It's a Mag-0 Shockwave Pin that has 6 uses and does 1 damage for each Success it rolls.

Now consider two Mag-1 Shockwave pins. Let's called them Jeet Kun and Wing Chun. Jeet Kun deals 1 damage for each Success +3, but has 1 less use, while Wing Chun deals the same damage as the Mag-0 Shockwave but has 8 uses instead of 6.

It may also be that very powerful Psychs like Nexus Ray and Black Hole have higher base Mag, so you'd never have a Mag-0 Black Hole because it starts at like Mag-5.

We can then link the price and rarity of a Pin to its Mag. We can also create a system for randomly rolling Pins at a certain Mag.

Does that make sense?

>>47818711
After reading your thoughts I agree that Trust shouldn't be the way that the light puck is passed and the combo system works absolutely fine to me. As for why Trust should remain as a stat:

1. The Trust stat is separate from the base four stats and thus you wouldn't waste character points on it.
2. Trusting someone more means that their skills are more effective against you. This includes things like Protect. For example, say that your character is depressed or afraid, and another player tries to cheer them up with Speak: Bravery. That cheering up will be much more effective because of the Trust.
3. I don't expect for player betrayal to be common, but I wanted to include it, because the original game also dealt with the concept of betrayal. We want to incentivise players into building their Trust with one another (which also incentivising RPing, essentially) but provide a potential risk inherent to that. The theme of TWEWY from what I understand is "trusting people means that they can hurt you, but overall the benefits outweigh the drawbacks and you should trust people".
4. I was also going to gate Fusion by the total Trust that two people had in one another, since that fits the idea of Fusion. I agree that Trust, especially as a hidden stat, shouldn't be rolled in combat, but instead act as its 'own thing'.

As others have pointed out, player relationship stats have been used successfully in other systems. For a minor example, Magical Burst has relationship ranks from 1-4 that are pretty important since a girl with a support network is less likely to succumb than an isolated girl. Bliss Stage's combat pretty much focuses on turning relationships into attacks.

Perhaps instead of rolling your Trust during combat, then, it's better to just have it be a slowly fluctuating stat that increases skill effectiveness. The purpose of it being hidden from other players is to mimic the fact that in real life you don't know for sure (Cont.)

>>47820463
Continued...

you don't know for sure what another person thinks of you. In other words, you, the IRL person, has to trust the other IRL person at the table. Because putting a higher Trust in someone inherently puts you at risk but can also provide many benefits, it means that the IRL players at the table have to trust one another just as the Players of the Reaper's Game.

That said, if you still don't like the idea of Trust as I've laid it out (assuming we remove it from combat, other than perhaps having something to do with Fusion), we can change it or remove it entirely.

>>47820190
This sounds neat. Once we balance the action economy we can figure out and balance how useful different effects are.

Question about Iniative:

How do we want to handle Player actions and Enemy actions? Do we want to have a massive initiative ladder? Or do we want a Player Round/Noise Round type situation?

I'm included to the separate Rounds idea because it allows the GM to control all the Noise basically at once, which will speed up combat. It also lets Players coordinate their actions better and it gives them the chance to switch their mindset over from "Time to Attack" to "Time to Defend".

Thoughts?

>>47820560
I'm in favour of the Player Round/Noise Round scenario. When should AP refresh, in that case?

>>47820560
AP refresh at the start of the player round would mean that players would not know how much AP to have "left over" for evades, counters, and so on. It would also mean that countering would have limited usage, as the noise go afterwards. Having AP refresh at the start of the Noise round means that during the Player round, players will know exactly how much AP they have, and will make counterattacking more strategic since it can occur first in a round.

I do worry, however, that having the Noise attack first first seem unfair to players, unless the Noise don't attack first round.

>>47820716
Well there are couple ways to do it.

>1. Carry-over
Any AP you don't use in the Player Round is carried over to the Noise Round, to be used for defensive actions. The main advantage is that it's simple and fast, but it might lead to slower, more conservative combat as skitish players avoid taking bold offensive actions to protect themselves. It makes sense that this could happen, but it's less interesting.

>2. Partial Refresh
You still reduced pool of AP in the Defensive round, maybe 3-4 instead of 6, that can be spent to avoid damage and do other non-offensive actions. We might also combine it with the previous option and say you can carry over some AP from the prior Player Round, so you can have up to 6 AP for Defense. I like this option for its balanced approach, but it may be more bookkeeping that some players would want.

>3. No AP
You don't have AP in the Noise Phase, but you don't need it. You merely react to whatever the Noise does. This is pretty simple and would probably be pretty fast to resolve, but it might lack strategic depth and player choice.

Of the 3 I'm partial to #2, though #3 is intriguing purely for how quickly it would resolve the Noise phase.

>>47820857
Partial refresh is fine, though I fear it does remove some player choice. I like the combination with 1 so that you CAN have 6 AP for Defense -- if, for whatever reason, you're just not being effective in a certain battle and so forth.

Presumably, Noise AP would refresh in the same way, so that they can also guard and so forth, though the average mook Noise probably wouldn't, either because they refresh less AP/round or because their attacks are costlier, etc.

Here's an idea for Noise population of the Battlefield:

Whether we go with my 5-zone proposal or the current 10-sector, the GM can roll a d10 to determine where each kind of Noise he's fielding starts out.

Also an idea for Noise population:

Each potential Noise battle has an Intensity rating between 1 and 10, which represents how dangerous it is. Intensity informs the GM of how many Noise and what kind of Noise he should be using.

So a couple Dixiefrogs would only be Intensity 1, while a pack of Garage Wolves would be Intensity 2. If you wanted an Intensity 3 battle you could fill the arena with 3 gangs of Dixiefrogs, or 1 gang of Dixiefrogs and a pack of Garage Wolves. The GM could then roll 1d10 for each enemy group to see where they spawn in the arena (or decide himself if he'd rather do it that way).

Most normal enemies don't spawn alone but in groups. You won't ever fight one Dixiefrog or 1 Garage Wolf. Dixiefrogs always spawn as gangs of 3 and Garage Wolves spawn as pairs. Each group counts as a single enemy for targetting and HP tracking. That creates the illusion of fighting a large group of enemies without actually needing to worry about having a dozen individual targets on the field at once.

>>47820925
Okay, so during the Noise Round players have 4 AP that they can use to move or commit defensive actions, and can carry over an additional 2 AP from the Player Round. These numbers can be fine tuned.

I actually don't think that Noise really need to have their own AP. I actually have an idea for Noise behavior that I mentioned in the last thread that I'll write-up which could be interesting.

>>47821096
That's far. Noise could have their own behaviour, and I like the idea of the Intensity coupled with grouping enemies together. I'm also in favour of your 5-zone system, and I'll update the doc accordingly once I have some free time.

That said, I think that players like it when the enemies are bound by the same rules that they are. I think that enemies such as Reapers, for example, should definitely have their own AP.

>Couture Matrix Question
Any suggestion for an Edgy Bag? I've got Rows 1-3, 5 and 7 done and Row 4 only needs that entry to be complete.

>>47821599
>That said, I think that players like it when the enemies are bound by the same rules that they are. I think that enemies such as Reapers, for example, should definitely have their own AP.
Agreed on Reapers; plus Reapers aren't Noise anyway, so they obviously work different.

>Noise Behavior
Here's my thought process.

Noise doesn't need its own AP, because they are far simpler than Players in their goals. Players have all sorts of things going through their heads-- Psychs, group HP, the Puck, not letting the rest of the group down. Moreover, each Player character is controlled by one real player, whereas all Noise are controlled by one person, the GM. So I'm in favor of simplifying them to make his job easier and to make combat smoother.

It's accurate to the source material to say that Noise really only have one drive: to hurt people. They're born from human unhappiness and they can't be reasoned with, only eliminated.

Every Noise has a set of coded behaviors that affect what they do in their Player Round and the Noise Round. At the start of combat, the GM either rolls to determine what that behavior is or chooses for himself.

Let's take a Garage Wolf for example. It probably has three behaviors, which map to a 1-10 chart:

>1-5: Ravage. The Garage Wolf attacks a Player in his Zone.
>6-7: Prowl. The Garage Wolf moves to an adjacent Zone with a player and attacks them.
>8-10: Shelter. The Garage Wolf takes a defensive posture in preparation for an attack.

Because Garage Wolves are highly aggressive Noise, their 1-7 behaviors are all attacks, which kick-in during the Noise Round. If the GM rolls those as their starting behavior, the Players basically have a free attack during the Player Round because the Grunge Wolves won't take defensive actions. (continued)

>>47821816 (continued)
We could also say that any Noise automatically spawn with their Defensive Behavior at the start of Combat.

Once the Noise Round starts, the GM determines the Garage Wolf's behavior either by rolling or picking. That says what it does during the round. Simple Noise like a Garage Wolf would only have a few behaviors-- either it attacks someone in its Zone, moves to an adjacent Zone and attacks, or it tries to protect itself. Ravage would naturally do more damage than Prowl, since Prowl also allows the Garage Wolf to move.

More complex Noise would have more complex behaviors, probably including more than one action during the Noise Round.

If a Noise uses a Defensive Action, it would probably only work once or twice (we'd determine that), so it's still possible for players to group up on guarding Noise to overwhelm it.

>>47821816
>Edgy Bag

Ripped Carryall.

>>47821921
Nice call. How about a Classy Hat? I already have Fedora and Pillbox under Retro Hat. Or I could switch them around if you have an idea for better Retro Hats.

>>47821816
>>47821891
That could work. I mean, that's essentially no different from having an AP system but only giving each Noise a few different options -- I didn't mean to give them an entire pin whatever system outside of the Reapers. For example, what if the GM rolls "Ravage" but there are no Players in the Zone, or if the closest player is two Zones away? Naturally, having simple roll tables like this sounds great for a GM to look at at a glance. I would supplement this with a very simplified version of the AP system.

As a basic example, a Garage Wolf movement is 1 AP, attack is 2 AP, and defend is 1 AP. Garage Wolves get 3 AP per round, total. A Garage Wolf can thus move a sector and attack, or attack and defend, or move two sectors and defend. The defend action would only be against a single attack, so that players can certainly group on it. Weak enemies have less AP; stronger enemies have more. A slow enemy might have movement - 2 AP. We could also then create a catalogue of abilities and so on so that GMs could create their own Noise.

Note that when I say Garage Wolf here, I mean the pack of them.

Dixiefrogs might only have 1 AP and can either move into an adjacent zone or leap into an adjacent zone to attack for 1 AP.

>>47822161
>That could work. I mean, that's essentially no different from having an AP system but only giving each Noise a few different options
Fair enough. I think this system makes it easier on the GM because he doesn't have to think "if I do X, do I still have enough AP left to do Y?" It's the same end effect but as someone who GMs games pretty frequently I know I'd appreciate having thing streamlined like this.

As for Ravage, we can write it as:

>1-5: Ravage. The Garage Wolf attacks a Player in his zone. If there are no Players the Zone then it Prowls instead.
>6-7: Prowl. The Garage Wolf moves to an adjacent Zone with a player and attacks them. If there are no players in adjacent Zones, then it Ravages instead. If it can do neither, it moves to an empty zone.

It's slightly more complex but I think that satisfies all possible outcomes.

Incidentally I won't be able to post much if at all this weekend, so if the thread gets Archived over the WE I'll start a new one Monday morning if there isn't one already.

>>47822034
Bowler Hat, Top Hat.

>>47822599
Bam, rows 1-7 done up. Thanks for the input.

>>47822646
As for retro bags, Satchels work.

Bomber Jackets work for Retro jackets.

Sports coat for Sporty Suit.

>>47822795
Added. Which means that the Couture Matrix is now filled out except for the Wild row, which is meant to be tacky, tasteless gimmick stuff like platform shoes or a giant cowboy hat.

Writing on mobile, forgive me for any typos.

>>47822309
Hm. I also GM frequently though admittedly I'm used to crunchier systems which may be why I keep proposing crunch despite TWEWY not benefitting from crunch. I can't say that I understand the difference between having complex behaviour rules versus having a very simple system -- surely a GM won't sit, paralysed, thinking about whether to use 3 AP to move and attack or whether to use them to guard. Frankly we could do both: yoke Noise to an action economy, then have a roll table of suggested behaviours. In your example, say the Garage Wolf has 2 AP and access to the actions Movement (1 AP), Light Attack (1 AP), Medium Attack (2 AP), and Guard (2 AP).

We then add a roll behaviour table.
1-5: Ravage - Perform a Medium Attack on a player in the same zone.
6-8: Prowl - Move to an adjacent zone an perform a Light Attack on a player in that zone. If no adjacents zones have players, move twice towards a zone with players.
9-10: Shelter - Guard against a single attack.

For Simple Noise the behaviour tables would be in line with possible actions, though more complex Noise would have access to more types of actions and therefore greater control. Even in the simple example above, a GM may choose to perform two Light Attacks instead of one Medium, if that suits his needs.

A modular framework like that would make it easier to build Noise down the line.

>>47822883
Right. Bell-Bottoms could work for the pants, Hawaiian shirt could work for the shirt, Poodle skirt for the skirt, Lab coat for the jacket, and a shopping bag for the bag?

>>47823007
Those aren't crazy enough. Bell-bottoms would fit in as either Casual or Sexy pants, Hawaiian is in there as "Aloha" for Breezy Shirts, Poodle Skirt I feel isn't particularly distinctive enough compared to what we have already; I'd probably say hoop skirt instead. Actually I'll add that right now.

>>47822941
I definitely see where you're coming from and the rules can certainly be written to accommodate both styles of GM. I was being a bit hyperbolic about GMs finding it stressing to deal with AP for lots of different monsters; surely they can handle it, but I'd personally enjoy it more if it were more automated.

The way you're putting it together is definitely a good way to do it, and how we should proceed. Nicely done.

Alright I'm off for tonight. Like I said if this thread isn't around Monday morning (EST) I'll post a new one. Meantime I may pop in now and then and also plink away at the Google Docs.

>>47823230
I absolutely see your standpoint about a more automated experience, so I'll do my best to accommodate both. It's akin to the Couture Matrix -- GMs can always create their own clothing if they desire, or they can roll to easily fill out a shop.

>>47823305
Wonderful, thank you for your contributions. I'll start to put together a Noise bestiary in that case.

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>>47803870
>fabulous outfits

>>47823447
Thankfully the Behavior charts don't have to be as complex as the Couture Matrix.

>>47823507
Such bravery.

Can someone remind me: is it stated outright that only dead humans are brought into the UG for the Reaper's Game? Or do the Reapers just pluck some people from the living too?

Asking for Worldbuilding reasons

>>47824542
Only people who have suffered an untimely death.
Joshua killing Neku for the game was an extraordinary occurrence and the whole thing about him being a living player was a ruse.

hey i've literally never played a tabletop game but this idea is super cool and I hope that you all have fun

>>47824542
Anyone who died recently, Yeah.

Has the idea of multi-skilled psyches not yet been explored? That each psych might be themed around two stats, and each pin would have a "level requirement" that you need to match with your that-psych related stats by matching or exceeding the level req (in either sum or with the highest of the two) and //possibly// different effects based on those two stats.

PIN: Go 2 Hell (Tiger Punks)
PSYCH: Pyrokinesis (BRV+FLW)
Required Level: 7
Damage: BRV + FLW/2
Accuracy: FLW

I believe this would make builds that invest in multiple stats an edge over dedicated single-stat builds, which would make the game more fun as well as changing the way stats play. With a system like this stats would change the way the same pin plays and not just by changing the sheer power of the pin.

>>47824542
Reapers joke about recruiting new players from the Real Ground, but they mean by shooting them. Yeah only the dead can play I'd say, unless someone really pulls so mary sue shit and breaks someone in for plot heavy world-ending reasons. Even psychics who can see the UG are later revealed [SPOILER] to be angels, the dead who've one and transcended the ranks of the UG, or weird humans who occasionally gain insight into the UG but def can't play or even directly interact with noise.[/SPOILER]

>>47824731
What's a level?

It should just have a requirement, or even just not have one.

>>47824731
>>47825064
Sorry, that wasn't clear.

You should just state 'requirement <stat> total' instead of 'required level,' because this game doesn't have levels and that's going to throw people.

>>47823007
>>47822883
>>47822795
Do 'Suit' and 'Dress' have to be literal suits and dresses, or just any items that take up both the shirt and pants slots? Because it's the latter in the game.

>>47824731
>What's a level?

>>47824731
>a "level requirement" that you need to match with your that psych's related stats, by matching or exceeding the level requirement in either sum or with the highest of the two

to be fair it wasn't worded simply

------

In other news, are trench coats and fedoras listed under "Classy" in The Couture Matrix as a joke? It's paired with things like stilettos and sweater-vests. Shouldn't Classy's coat be a fur coat or suit jacket? Also can hair oil be a wearable? I know I've seen enough tight-assed ambition puppets with slicked hair to know this is def a trend.

>>47825197
>In other news, are trench coats and fedoras listed under "Classy" in The Couture Matrix as a joke?
Not a joke but everything is tentative right now. Slick hair might be a good alternative for Fedora as classy hat.

Fedoras look classy as long as you're also wearing a 3-piece suit with a tie, cufflinks and nice shoes. The problem is people wearing them with jeans and a wolfshirt.

>>47825368
>Fedoras look classy as long as you're also wearing a 3-piece suit with a tie, cufflinks and nice shoes. The problem is people wearing them with jeans and a wolfshirt.
They CAN be classy, but it's rare. If we're listing clothes iconically associated with particular styles it would make far sense to list Fedoras under a style of dress I'm going to call "Internet Gentlemen" for now. And when does a trench coat every look upper-class irl?

Just trowing stuff out there, as the original TWEWY's threads were based off of popular brands in real-life city fashion, I'd base our system off of real life our-cities fashion. It should be noted that I'm from Canada so any "real" big cities are alien to me and I really only know how rural and small city 12-27 y/o's dress.

>>47825842
Cont.

Scene (scater/goth: Hot Topic, converse, knee-high converse, all the edgy unisex makeup, cut-up skinny jeans, safety pin decorated clothing, etc.) (it doesn't matter if you like it or not, it's def a thing and some people will)
Bros (hood/white trash/skater: wife beaters, hats that can only be worn backwards, board shorts, board shoes, etc.)
Norm Core (white trash, bland thing; like whatever replaced Uggs, hoodies, and black tights. we should throw every uniform or "typical" clothing in here.)
Thrifty (cardigans, big jewelry, hemp things, and flowy clothes)
Nerdy (indie/web developer chic/etc; like sweater-vests and, plaid apparently, and those big hipster glasses that are still in fashion. maybe bow ties. I know i'm getting into cliches but it's true and irl relevant)
Preppy (Smart Casual, Upper/Middle class; like boat shoes, bad khakis, polos and things... tight fitting suit clothes are actually closer to Web Dev Chic but whatever they can go in here for simplicity)
Black Tie (classy/upperclass/formal; coctail dressed, every part of every suit, slicked hair, shiny watches)
Glam (just ridiculously "upper class things" that upper class people don't actually wear, high fashion: mink fur coats, tiger patterned dress pants, etc.)
Wild (just random ass miscellaneous funny items: samurai wigs, etc.)
Memes (Internet Fashion: Fedoras, Trench Coats, basically everything /fa/ is both sick of and in love with, stupid DIYs, the works.)

Hey, I just want to apologize for not being as active here as before. There are important things I've been preparing for that happen really soon
The 5 sector system doesn't sound like it would cooperate well with AP unless AP was significantly lower(think 2, 3 at most and 4 never.). There's a point where you're so mobile you may as well just assume everyone is always in range, and with this arrangement you're not entirely wrong in doing that(range 0-1 pins can hit 4/5s of the field at a corner, all of it in the center. range 0 needs an extra AP to do that feat here). If we used that weird circle grid, even 1 move/turn gives you too much mobility.

So for item types, to simplify, I'm thinking:

Slot # - Name (Examples And Other Notes)

1 Hats and Hair Accessories
2 Jewelry and Accessories (neck tie, banadana tied around arm or waist, pearl necklace, eye patch, etc.)
2 Wearable Items (backpacks, japanese swords (it is cannon), etc.)
3 Tops
4 Bottoms
3&4 One-Piece (replaces the current "suits" category)
5 Footwear

Player can only have one item in each slot, except slot 2 which can hold two items in any combination. You can wear a necklace and an eye-patch, two backpacks, a backpack and a necklace, but the cap is two.

>>47825842
It looks upper class if you have a suit under the trenchcoat, and are using the trenchcoat as you traverse the rain.

Clothing has a versatile history.

>>47825860
I figured we were making it based off the brands in the game, and clothing could be created based off whatever you want if you were setting it in a city that wasn't Shibuya.

>>47825860
These are totally legit and would 100% work as Brands for an original setting (since your in Canada maybe it would be the Vancouver UG). The guide is going to include instructions for how to set-up Brands and create unifying symbolism between them (like how the Brands in the source use the Chinese Zodiac).

The Couture Matrix is purely a device for generating random threads. It's not meant to pump out complete Brands unless the Brand is intended to be super eclectic.

>>47825947
Bear in mind you're using AP both for movement and for attacks, and many Psychs are going to consume more than 1 AP. I figure a lot of Psychs could potentially consume all 5-6, like Black Hole or a full Shockwave combo.

Still, numbers right now are based on feel rather than experimentation and we'll narrow them down as we go.

The 5-zone system is mean to be as fast as the source game; you aren't meant to be wasting a lot of time in transit across the battlefield.

>>47826236
This. The Couture Matrix pretty much is designed around the intended use of clothing, without the baggage of Branding. Brands exist to recontextualize Threads into new Trends.

It's a living document though so if you or anyone else has ideas for how it should be please voice them. I'm a little shaky on some of the entries (like the Rah-Rah as a Street Skirt).

What brands should like each other?
The wiki outlines some dislikes, which is according to at least one interpretation of the zodiac.
Each brand should have probably two compatible brands, for the purposes of Brand Alignment abilities.

>>47826836
Are do doing that? It seems so arbitrary and beside-the-point to me and like it couldn't possibly turn out well. Idk tho I'm just one person and maybe it will turn out totally awesome?

>>47826953
In the game, Neku is obviously JotM, Shiki is D+B, Beat is Wild Boar, and Joshua is Dragon Couture.
However, Mus Rattus also has some Shiki abilities, Lapin Angelique has both Joshua and Shiki abilities, and Tigre Punks has abilities for every character.

A chart for this, or even just an agreed-upon normal zodiac chart will let us quickly make Brand Alignment thread abilities that are easier to activate by having multiple brands.
So, for example a Pavo Real thread with an abilitiy with Brand Alignment: Pavo Real, Dragon Couture, Hip Snake: <ability>

>>47826836
we have four stats, each of which represents a personality characteristic, very general genre, and an core aspect of playstyle. should each brand be ~loosely~ associated with a stat? 3 brands per stat?

if each brand is associated with two stats, then we'll have 12 two-stat combinations in total, which is exactly the number of Chinese and astrological horoscopes. it'd be a cool tie in from the world building to our stat system, and it'd also get a big chunk of the brain storming out of the way and give us something to build this brand=horoscope theory on.

>>47827250
You can read my posts last thread
>>47779689
>>47781530
>>47781759
Where I generalize all the brands, including their psychs which have associated stats thanks to whoever keeps making google docs.

Some reconsideration should go into it, though, because some psychs have alternate input versions that don't match the stat currently associated with them.
Ex. Psychokinesis is a Flow psych, however Dragon Couture's Psychokinesis pins use a tap input (Insight) and Mus Rattus's uses slash (Rhythm).

>>47827440
We can always set those pins as the ones that rely on multiple stats.

>>47827632
is the best way to do this using the lowest of two stats or basing, say, damage on one of the two stats and accuracy/AP/whatever on another?

>>47827632
What if that brand isn't associated with the psych's main stat?

>>47826776
Honestly, I feel like it completely ignores transit in it's entirety. Camping the center with 1 range pins feels like the optimal strategy. Especially if we use communal HP.

>>47827440
Depending on the brand you use, psyches can use different stats. The idea behind that is that, with psychokinesis for example, one brand focuses more on the telekinetic power more, whereas the other is more like a mental shove.

Gonna try an' mash
>>47827440
and
>>47825860
creating one set of styles relevant to 2014-2017 Western fashion

>Mus Rattis - Normcore Walmart fashion, which to be fair isn't as hideous as you'd think
***D+B - wild bar clothes, slut line (denim skirts, mid-drifts, form-fitting workout Ts that are not for working out in, etc.) , cleaned up Tigre Punks basically
Tigre Punks - Bros and skater fashion, but like, baggy skater fashion, ie. actual skater fashion, not internet skater fashion.
Lapin Angĕlique - Scene and Goth (if they ever weren't the same thing, I think they are now desu)
Dragon Couture - Preppy/Smart Casual boatshoe one
***Hip Snake - This could be the thrifty one? Or the plaid hipster one.
Pegaso - Black Tie
>Sheep Heavenly - Normcore Sears fashion, Mus Rattis 2
*Jupiter of the Monkey - Workout clothes? Other than middle aged people who jog I haven't really seen an equivalent to this J trend on Western shores.
Pavo Real - Glam of the Glam, crazy flashy shit.
>NATURAL PUPPY - ahhh so many Mus Rattis 2's! This one is closer to Sears tho
*WILDBOAR - Like Tiger Punks but less white trash more skater?
Gatito - Unless we want to pull a Deadric Armor with this and give one brand all the endgame items thus greatly reducing all the customization we worked for, this can be where we shove all the Miscellaneous and possibly Meme items

-I cannot differentiate between Mus Rattis, Sheep Heavenly, and Natural Puppy's aesthetics easily. NP seems like the most basic to me (Walmart?), with SH being the same but with a girly fake rhinestone flair (Clair's) and MR being the slightly more adult, more expensive version on NP (Sears)
-Our punk scene is a lot less flashy than Japan's. We need to reinvent TP, WB, and possibly D+B to be relevant to our culture yet still distinct from each other and fleshed out unified styles on their own. Also I haven't met anyone D+B since highschool.
-We still need a brand to represent our Nerdy/Lumbersexual web design hipster friends. Hip Snake?

>>47828234
We could give the Web Designer french pressed cynical elitist post-secondary educated plaid undercut hipsters to Gatito (let's be real, Mr. H was there, and they are commonly compared to and loosely associated with cats) and give the thrifty bo-ho broke esty hipsters to Hip Snake. It even has Hip in the name.

What Gatito was used for in the original game could be given to unlabeled (there was a lot of thematic overlap anyway)

>>47828234
honestly, the original threads better, trying to westernize them just takes all the style and appeal out of them

>>47828234
>>47828309
>>47828507

Yeah, I might have missed it, but what is the point of this outside of trying to categorize the type of clothes each brand might carry?

>>47803870
Gay

How's this to remedy the areas being to small?
Each player has an adjoining North-East-South-West-center 'board.' Noise can go wherever, but players can only move in their five spaces.

Adjoining isn't quite the right word. I mean each player shares a section with another player. (Pic) Neku's East is Shiki's West, and his South is Beat's North. Etc.
It also creates a place to initiate dual psychs. But it doesn't have to.

This sort of replicates the game's separate areas for each character.

>>47828234
Based on price and such,
Mus Rattus seems to be super cheap and everywhere, Sheep Heavenly is a younger girl average price store, and Natural Puppy is more expensive mid-quality stuff.
I'd say Sears (I don't want to insult it by saying walmart); something like Justice; American Eagle. D+B can also cover more "on the edge" places like Abercrombie and Fitch and Forever21.

Exaggerating the styles is fine, and there is a difference between punk, skater, and clubwear. Skaters wear beanies and t-shirts over longsleeves, punks wear leather jackets and shit with studs, clubwear is skimpy, dancing stuff. Especially if it's shiny.

If NP is preppy and SH is girly, give it to MR.

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>>47828842
Shit

>>47828638
I mean, it can be if you want.

>>47826836
>>47827440
One way I see off the top of my head to coincide this is to have a sort of Skill:Pin relationship between the two that we've touched on with >>47804327

But I'm not sure if that'd be too jumbled a mess to do on the reg.

>>47828884
That might be a bit way too much.
We could just have the stat on the pin description, like >>47824731's template. It also means you don't have to look up in the book every time you want to know which psych uses what stat.

>>47828962
Ok, yeah, this is way better than what I suggested.

And it does allow for way more fun damage calculations that can differentiate between pins that have the same psychs but different brands.

Really put >>47827878
into game terms.

>>47828621
The brands that originally appeared in the game were humorously very closely based on real-life brands, the brands represent Japan's many subcultures, and as people's clothes frequently affected other's reception of them in the story the game mechanics mirrored this in it's BRANDS having astrological associations with each other that affected the technical side of the gameplay's combat. As horoscopes themselves are a pulpy fad in Japan it was a clever tie it to the whole social/cultural/communication/friendship motif and critics LOVED IT. However all the game's fashion characterization is based on 2005 Japanese fashion and has lost some relatability. The creator has even said one of the greatest flaws of the game is how quickly the intertext of the fashion mechanics will date and that they were surprised it caught on at all overseas considering how culturally sensitive it is. If we're reinventing it anyway I just thought it was a given that we'd be reinventing the brands.

>>47828621
The brands' characterization is important. Firstly, without order behind them the 12+ brands are an arbitrary mess of useless information but you CAN'T cut them out of any table top while staying true to the original game, and for many people they might even add something to the adaption. The brands anchor the game's "armor" to the story's themes of interconnection, communication, and personalization. They're very important world fluff. They set standards to the the players' tool for personalizing their characters', removing some subjectivity from what's being communicated about the character by their clothes and making it easier to build and represent a character in this system, which is important.

The original game's story centers around how many different kinds of lifestyles and identities there are and how those perspective collide with each other (the main setting of the game is literally the psychical personification of evolving culture and mixing viewpoints) and the game's brand-name "armor" is a signature aspect of the game that was meant to reflect that. We can't limit the styles in the game to what would be convenient to make because this a game about personalization and diversity, but we can't put in a slew of random clothes either because the player won't be able to sort through or process them. So there are several "classes" the armors need to fit under (class referring to personality first and foremost, relating to technical abilities secondarily) that need to be diverse, but organized and relatable. Also, it appears these brands will have specific in-game abilities that affect the combat system, so that needs to be thoughtfully developed so that no-one is COMPLETELY boxed in to a particular style and fitted so that those abilities fit the image of the clothes as well as the characters and stats they'll be likely used with, as the abilities the threads have are going to affect PC characterization and likely the narrative.

>>47829273
Well, there's still punks and skaters and dudebros and all those fashion trends today, and I'm still for the default being the 13 TWEWY brands.

>>47829273
>if we're reinventing it anyway I just thought it was a given that we'd be reinventing the brands.

at the very least identifying western equivalents to all the japanese brands will help us identify with them and help us pick out associated stats, builds, psyches, and abilities for them. also, unless we're copying all the original game's items exactly we need to define what's at the core of each brand so we can build on them collaboratively without messing things up for each other. at the very least establishing core themes now will save a lot of conceptual overlap and confusion later.

Ok, I personally am going to drop all this fashion stuff for now in favor of letting other conversation thrive. :B

>>47829602
I assumed we would copy the game's items and create new ones on top of it. They serve as a model and as an example for those who want to run the canon setting, as 2005-2007 Shibuya. Additionally we can provide a 2016 Western example if we choose, but I think that showcasing how the canon setting translates is important to fans of the game.

>>47829273
>>47829353
>>47829602

Alright, point. I just figured this'd be more of a GM's problem. But yeah, cool.

>>47828858
I want to know how we didn't think to do something like this sooner. How could we have forgotten to mimic multiple play areas? Since I'm sleeping soon, I'm going to try following this train of thought. I might come up with something useful. Probably not, but I might.

>>47831462
I figured we'd be doing multiple play areas from the get go.

I see that a lot has happened in my absence. I'll try to coalesce things tomorrow morning and potentially consider how to do multiple play areas.

I'm liking the idea of pins with 1+ range being able to affect zones outside of one's player area for the purposes of helping a teammate.

>>47833062
Presumably, the battlefield is the same for everyone, but people can move past each other, or through their locations without having to worry about colliding with them. This wouldn't be able to be reproduced with our current battlefield system though. I've said before that grid-based combat is the best for this.

>>47833409
I'm afraid I have no idea what you mean, anon. Could you elaborate?

>>47833479
In a grid, you have player characters and you have enemies. Nobody can actually cross over each other's squares. Players cannot cross enemy squares or other player's squares. The other entity is simply too large to get through the same area. Enemies would be the same. They cannot move themselves through their allied squares too (barring tadpole noise). Imagine then the benefit of being able to move through your allies' squares. Healing and support characters could walk through characters who can block/evade attacks better than them and the enemy would have to get past the tank to get to the healer.

The enemy noise can't do that because they exist on both planes, meaning they have to follow the rule of having to actually get past the thing in front of them.

This can easily be expressed on a grid, but not for the 5 direction battlefield we currently have.

>>47833613
Why is it so important to include bodyblocking?

>>47835879
We literally have a skill called protect. Also, anyone using an aqua barrier is invincible while using it, which would be useful to hide behind if your team needs as little damage going on as possible.

All that and we haven't decided an HP setup yet, so if everyone has separate HP totals, getting behind an invincible wall to tap a healing pin is incredibly useful.

So yeah, that's why I think bodyblocking is important.

>>47835949
I'm pretty sure no healing pin takes long enough to activate that that's going to be relevant.

I was under the assumption that skills would be out-of-combat only. ?

>>47836823
Or, maybe the enemy can hit harder than they can heal and want to hide in the invincible spot to attack from there.

I would use skills in battle if they were appropriate. For example, you could use protect:flow or protect:insight to avoid getting robbed by the bird noise, or fight:rhythm or fight:bravery to get it back from the bird.

I mean, if you have lost your attack pin that isn't on cooldown and you have AP to spare on your turn, why not try to get it back?

Bump to hopefully post more later

It looks like a lot has happened since I last checked the thread, so I'll bump this once while I start to look through.

Alright here are a couple of things I've been mulling over.

Firstly, I think it's a mistake to think that we have to include each Player occupying their own battlespace during combat. It feels isolating but more importantly it doesn't fit the platform. When TWEWY was first released your Partner existed in a separate space during battle but when the game was ported to iOS, that was changed so that your Partner was on the same screen as you. Why? Because it fit the platform better. We need to ensure that whatever we choose is not just appropriate for the style and feel of the game but also for the kind of experience you have at a tabletop.

To that end, with all these different ideas about the structure of the battlefield and rules for movement and whatnot, we need to put them in context of what kind of game they're going to create vs what kind of game we want to make. How do you visualize the Grid or the 10-sector idea working that makes it the best choice?

The whole point behind the 5-zone battleground I imagined was that it is fast, snappy, compact and dynamic, with only minor costs incurred for navigation and range-- just like how fights went in the source game. It's not tactical or granular about positioning but that's fine, because combat in TWEWY is more about speed and flow than strategy. I still feel like it best captures the spirit of the game.

>>47833409
So in line with what I wrote above, how does the Grid-based battlefield capture the spirit and feel of TWEWY?

>>47824731
This is an interesting idea, but I've got some reservations.

First by linking every Pin to two Stats you're perhaps limiting the number of Psychs that a Player can effectively use. If a player has excellent Insight but poor Flow then they can't really use a Pin where the to-hit is based on Insight by the the damage is attached to Flow. Instead of guiding players towards not jacking on stat up to high I think it would result in us limiting their ability effectively use different Psychs; ergo a character with high Insight and Bravery would only be using Pins that resonate with BOTH of those Stats, instead of using Pins that resonate with EITHER.

My thought about discouraging players from monostating is a rule like this:
>The Law of Dissonance
>Just as Psychs resonate with the Rhythm, Flow, Insight and Bravery of Players, so do they resonate with each other. If a Player wields too many Psychs resonate with the same Stat, their harmony is broken by an excess of sympathetic vibrations. As a result, a Player cannot equip more than 3 Psychs controlled by the same Stat.

This is reflective of rules in the source game where you could only have a certain number of Pins that had certain characteristics at once.

That said, your Damage calculation intruiges me. Are you suggesting that the damage on this Pin be the sum of your Bravery and Flow, or are you suggesting a separate damage roll? Because I think damages rolls would be a misstep but I like the idea of certain Psychs having fixed damage based on your Stats.

>>47837305
I like this. The Fight Skill isn't meant to be used to actually damage Noise, since that's what Psychs are for, but you can still use Fight to deal with things that Noise can do like the stupid birds. That's actually a perfect example.

Actually I have the opposite question: should Psychs have out-of-combat uses? If I recall correct Psychs couldn't function in the UG proper, only in the Noise Realm, but it could be fun to bend that rule and give Psychs specific out-of-combat functions. Like using Love Me Tether as a grappling hook or using Piercing Pillar to create blocks of ice.

>>47824542
Technically speaking, the Reapers didn’t recruit dead people. They recruited people who were close to the brink of death, such as those who had suffered a fatal gunshot wound or those who had been in a car crash and the like. So they can’t bring people back from the literal death, only give them the option to go for certain death or to attempt to win their life back in the game. Speaking of the game, the officially sanctioned reward is for people to ascend to the Higher Plane to become Angels like Mr. H. The reward of being able to be reborn is also okay, though I think that you forfeit your entry fee if that’s the case. I’ll replay the game to be sure.

>>47824654
Hello there anon and thank you. If you would like to be introduced to tabletop gaming, I would be more than happy to assist you.

>>47824731
I think that this is a fantastic idea. I like the thought of certain pins being one-stat while others are two-stat. Regarding pins that are two-stat, I’m in favour of the “the combined total of both pins” as the requirement. The question would be whether we have damage and accuracy as two separate rolls, however. For example, we could put them together into a single roll, where if you get enough successes to deal damage, you automatically hit. In that case, it wouldn’t have sense to have two different stats govern the accuracy versus the damage, but instead we could do something as simple as “add together both relevant stats” or what have you. I like the idea of the same psych always having at least one stat that is consistent throughout, but with different secondary flavours depending on the brand or the method of input in the DS game as has been mentioned previously. Psych A might be Flow, but it might have Pin A (Flow), Pin B (Flow + Bravery), Pin C (Flow + Insight) and Pin D (Flow + Rhythm), so that a wide variety of characters could use that psych at some point, even if they’re not characters dedicated to Flow.

>>47841520
>>47826776
I think that some players might find the game more enjoyable if there’s some sort of thought of where to position yourself. Of course, I’m merely speaking from my own preference.
As >>47827796 says, that also means that the optimal strategy is simply camping the centre with range 1 pins and whaling on everything in most cases. You’re right that transit shouldn’t be much of a problem, so perhaps we should make it possible to traverse the entire battlefield in the course of a single turn. At the same time, however, the five-zone field means that a pin with a range of 1 can hit 80% of the zones at any given time, and 100% of the zones if the person were in the centre. I think that having different ranges of pins will actually emulate the game feeling more, since Neku was using the psych pins to attack enemies on the other side of the screen and whatnot rather than having to constantly move closer (much of the time). The 10-sector one-dimensional field was meant to emulate the game’s mostly horizontal track wherein enemies would mostly attack from the left or the right. Perhaps that is not mobile enough, however, and we could shorten it down to a 6 or 5-sector one-dimensional field. The good thing about the one-dimensional field is that it’s very easy to determine who is in striking distance and how people are, since people would only have to keep track of their own position, i.e. if I’m on sector 2 with a 2-range pin, I can hit anyone from sectors 1, 2, 3 or 4. Alternatively, we could do the different battle areas that have been described elsewhere. We could have the Noise be able to move from battlefield to battlefield as necessary or have them existing on all battlefields simultaneously so that any player could tackle any noise. In fact, we could have special hit and run enemies that pass from field to field similar to the one giant bird enemy from the DS game whose name has embarrassingly escaped my memory.

(Cont.)

>>47841535
We could also have each character have a five-zone battlefield, with the other players’ intersecting at north, south, east, or west as described earlier. Then the players would have to move into the appropriate spot to perform a fusion attack with that other player or what have you something like what >>47828858 described. This means that there would be a maximum of four or five players. That would mean, however, that each player would have to keep track of their own battlefield and that would have very difficult very quickly, and I’m not sure how we could get around that.

For example, we could say, “the North is Player A’s zone, the East is Player B’s zone, the South is Player C’s, and the West is Player D.” Then, in order to perform a fusion between Player A and Player C, Player A would have to go south, and Player C would have to go north. This means that the battlefields wouldn’t be exactly connected as in the image, but it would mean easier bookkeeping. It would also mean that the GM could print out the same battlefield for everyone with people’s names or what have you in the appropriate zones ot make orientation easier.

Perhaps we could retain the idea of zones but introduce a third layer so that the battlefield takes 4 AP rather than 2 to walk across entirely, though that would once again complicate things. We could also use a grid system as other people have suggested, which might make determining the range difficult unless we do a kind of “the eight squares immediately around one’s square form range 1, the next set of squares is range 2" and so on.

As for bodyblocking, I was under the impression that the sectors or tiles or what have you would only mean relative positioning. In the DS game, for example, the battlefield was mostly horizontal, but players and Noise could still move past one another vertically. That said, we could certainly have something like the barrier abilities extending to other characters.

(Cont.)

>>47841560
>>47827229
Brand alignment is a neat idea. I’ll look up some charts about the Chinese zodiac to see if we can find one that fits. Having a modest boost for people who coordinate outfits and actually try to be fashionable (within the parameters of the game terms) instead of merely equipping whatever has the best stats sounds excellent.

>>47833409
I’m not sure why it wouldn’t be able to be reproduced, unless I’m misunderstanding what you mean.

>>47836823
>>47837305
I agree that we should have some limited form of skill usage in the battlefield. However, the use of “protect” instead of guard or evade might make things difficult to balance.

In related news, I’ll get to working on the Noise Bestiary sometime today or tomorrow and attempt to balance the action economy. We could also start working on assigning specific stats to pins so that we can take a look at how many AP we’d be looking at and how high we want the numbers to go. I could throw out a few examples. I’m not sure if we should have more expensive pins be outright better, but simply require more successes that are more feasible down the road, in addition, of course, to levelling up one’s own psychs and pins and whatnot. I’ll also think about a Time mechanic. In the case of the GM, the Time mechanic would be optional, since the GM could choose to not have the missions be timed. Lots of fun stuff coming up.

Finally, regarding the initiative pass versus combo pass, I believe that the general consensus of the thread is to popcorn the light puck as a form of initiative, but the AP bonus is determined by whether or not the player successfully landed a combo or not. That seems like it assuages most concerns, minus the ability to skip over someone, which may be needlessly complicated.

Regarding the Noise bestiary, by the way, I’m going to leave many of the exact actions simply as in terms of the mechanics and flavour them for the individual Noise instead. Not sure what I’ll do about bosses yet. I also had the silly idea of referring to the difficulty of a battle as the decibel rating of the battle, so that a single group of Dixiefrogs is 10 dB, while the final boss might be 150 dB depending on how the scaling goes. The dB will be determined by how much AP is generated per Round, so an enemy of 30 dB would generate 3 AP per Round.

Technically, that’s stretching the definition of decibels, but I think it’s entertaining since the enemies are called Noise.

>>47839891
My issue with the five-zone battleground is that, unless most pins were range 0, this would make movement entirely irrelevant. I like the feeling of being able to zip around the battlefield, but I would also like a battlefield in which I would zip.
If you want movement to be zippier, we could say that you can move multiple sectors on a single AP. Like if we have a 10 sector 1D battlefield, but you could move up to 4 sectors on a single AP. Make players mobile, but making the 5-zone circular battlefield feels like the battlefield is very small and restrictive. Again, though, that's just my feeling on the subject.

>>47840645
I like the idea of the Law of Dissonance. I was going to suggest rather that we had some pins that were monostat and others that were two-stat. For those pins that were two-stat, we would have the stat be the sum of both governing stats. For example, say a pin is Bravery + Insight. Someone with Bravery 5 and Insight 1 would have a combined total of 6; someone with Insight 5 and Bravery 1 would have a combined total of 6; and someone with Insight 3 and Bravery 3 would have a combined total of 6. That way it's giving options for people who both specialise in a single stat and for people who are more spread out.

>>47840742
>If I recall correct Psychs couldn't function in the UG proper, only in the Noise Realm, but it could be fun to bend that rule and give Psychs specific out-of-combat functions

It was noted in the story's dialog that psyches (generally) don't work in the UG's "main channel" and certainly not in the RG (not physically, anyway), with certain odd exceptions like Psychokinesis. It's use by the characters in the main channel seems very different than it's use in combat, but in a way that's presented as intuitive and apparently didn't need to be explained to the players.

This MAY be related to one of the characters (i won't spoil it just in case but the one who's actually a very high ranking reaper, the highest in fact) needing to "cap" their level in order to enter the UG as a player. The psychic power of things in this setting are "capped" by their plane of reality, just as the quality a chord of music is capped by the medium you play it on.

Most importantly, psyches don't TAKE OVER main channel gameplay. The UG's main channel is about socialization, urban scavenger-hunts, and the atmospheric tension of feeling you're doing something important without any of the strangers around being able to see it. Psyches have been used to emphasize ~plot~ points and perhaps could be used for ~puzzle~ shit, but outside of combat this is a game about talking and puzzles, not about having super powers. If game play emphasizes the psyches too much, like say making the players able to get over physical obstacles by summoning a pillars of ice under themselves, or by freezing shit like Ice Man, it stops being an urban game and starts being urban fantasy.

Regarding Noise, do we think they need to have the same R.F.I.B. stats as Players? Or custom stats based on the fact that they are entirely different lifeforms who exist for different reasons?

>>47841535
I think I see what you're talking about with the 5-6 sector idea. How about this:

The battlefield can be visualized as a rectangle split into five vertical bands. We can call them Left-Edge, Left, Center, Right and Right-Edge. Pins with Range 0 can attack targets within your band, Range 1 one band over and Range 2 two bands over. So if you're at Right-Edge with a Range-2 Pin you can attack and be attacked from the Center; if you're in the Center you can attack anywhere, but you're also vulnerable from all points.

Moving from one Band to another is 1 AP, so to get from Left-Edge to Right-Edge costs 5 AP.

It's still snappy and it emulates the combat within the game pretty welll.

Alternately we could do a limited 9-square grid of N-NE-E-SE-S-SW-W-NW and Center; that's probably as granular as we want to go, to be honest. Anything more will start to slow down combat a lot. I'm much more a fan of the Band idea, which feeds into the themes of musicality in the game as well.

>>47841854
Very true. I agree with keeping Psychs out of the Main Channel UG.

>>47841680
>decibel
That's really clever and I think we need more word play. I love that the stats are qualified as things like "Flow" and "Rhyme" for instance. The original was ALL ABOUT word play even after translation, it was word play central before that.
Note that the "Noise" are revealed to have been named after electromagnetic interference, at least if we go by their death animations and Mr. H's dialog about them. They're the black+white dots that appear on a screen and the crackle over speakers playing an otherwise perfect artistic experience. Their power level could also be called DPI tho that's obviously a little more cryptic.
Is there any way a player's or a sentient PC's level could also be quantified as decibels? Considering how many psyches are music themed and how the players are essentially "shouting over" the Noise it makes sense.

>>47842045
'Bands' makes the range on stuff like Lightning Rook or Nexus Ray strange, though.

Looking at the Noise Reports, I've vaguely grouped enemies here by difficulty based on the day on which they first appear. Note that although players have partial refresh and therefore access to 10 AP in total each round, Noise only refresh AP once. If the game lasts for a while, however, the enemies will start to regenerate more AP than the player by default, ramping up the difficulty. I'm also ignoring bosses here which will be balanced separately, pigs, and Noise unique to Another Day.

Regarding Taboo Noise, I imagine that the Taboo Defence alone will knock down the number of AP they can regenerate per turn. I'll keep them in the correct dB category but mark them with an asterisk, because we'll need to balance that depending on how we choose to make Taboo Noise. I believe I've placed them all in the correct category.

10 dB (1 AP/Round)
Dixiefrog

20 dB (2 AP/Round)
Garage Wolf
Gabba Bat

30 dB (3 AP)
Mosh Grizzly

40 dB
Bigbanfrog

50 dB
Alterna Wolf
Hard Corehog

60 dB
Decadraven

70 dB
J Popguin

80 dB
Thrash Mink
Carcinofolk
Carcinosamps

90 dB
Jungle Boomer

100 dB
Happycore Bat
Jelly Madchester/Swechno
Carcinoska

110 dB
Emo Corehog
Easterraven

120 dB
Electro Popguin

130 dB
Funkfrog
*Wall of Grizzly
*Death Metal Mink
*Chaoti Corehog
*Eurobeat Boomer

140 dB
House Rhino

150 dB
Orchefrog
Shrew Wave
Bebop Shark

160 dB
Jelly Neocoustic/Germanic
Psychedelifox

170 dB
Death Thrash Mink
Melodi Corehog
Carcinometal
Nefastraven

180 dB
Brit Popguin
Minimal Rhino

190 dB
*Choirfrog
*Grunge Wolf
Shrew Gazer
2-step Boomer
*Neoclassical Drake
Fusion Shark
Pachy R & R

200 dB
Classi Corehog
*Trance Rhino
*Carcinopunk

210 dB
Southerfrog
Ambiefox
Doom Metal Drake

>>47842045
I like the 5-band system and agree with its usage. We could also do something like a 10-band system and have 2 sectors cost 1 AP which gives more room for manouvring, but the 5-band system is much simpler. Whether it call it bands, sectors, whatever, works. If we really wanted to clever we could call them Measures, like the measures of a musical score, or we could call the entire battleground the "Staff" and represent the five bands akin to the 5 lines on the Staff.

We could also give the GM the ability to choose how long the battlefield is, with a 5-Measure or Band or whatever field being the norm.

>>47842431
Not necessarily. It would simply be like, "select a band, and Lightning Rook hits everything in each band leading up to the band that was selected", which may include both friends and enemies. Lightning Rook might be a variable AP psych, wherein the further away the band, the more AP it eats up.

>>47842409
We could regard their ESPer rank in terms of decibels or DPI. We could also do some worldplay with regards to DPI, such as by giving it another acronym (i.e. "Danger Power Index") but also making it a clever reference to DPI. We could also include both references -- each individual Noise enemy is measured in decibels, and each potential encounter is measured in DPI, or Decibel Power Index. I'm a fan of wordplays myself, honestly.

bampu

>>47842618
This is great!

>Looking at the Noise Reports, I've vaguely grouped enemies here by difficulty based on the day on which they first appear.
This actually makes encounter design a breeze. Check this out.

Instead of just creating a climbing scale of decibels, we classify each Noise by its db and its Day. So a Second Day 10db Noise is significantly stronger than a First Day 10db Noise.

When creating a battle, first reference your Day, and then choose the today db of the encounter. 10db is trivial, 100db is extremely challenging. Then you can populate the encounter with however many Noise appropriate to that day satisfies the decibel level.

>>47842833
Measures is a good name for it as well. I think the 5-Measure battlefield is a good compromise right now between speed and granularity, and it mimics the game's 2d battlefield nicely.

Here are some ideas for Noise stats, inspired by a post in the previous thread:

>HP: Obvious
>Treble: Treble is a Noise's ferocity and cunning. Treble determines the number of dice that a Noise rolls when attacking.
>Bass: Bass is a Noise's fortitude, and determines how many dice it rolls to defend itself.
>Tempo: Tempo is a Noise's speed and maneuverability, and determines how many Measures it can cross per AP.

These might be more abstract than are absolutely necessary but they are flavorful at least. Naturally Reapers would be built totally differently because they're more like players. Noise, on the other hand, are wholly different lifeforms.

Some Noise would also be able to use Treble for Defense or Bass for attack in certain circumstances, based on what kind of behavior they have. Like the Pachy R&R could use its Bass for its ground smash attack.

>>47841854
>>47842058
You of course remember that Psyche's can't be used for utility in regular UG space, only in combat with other players, Reapers, and Noise.

Neku tried Pyrokinesis on day 3 and that didn't work.

>>47843741
Does that mean that we would have to adjust the dB of each Noise in accordance with the Day? Also, how would be scale this with regards to games that last for more than one week?

What I was hoping to do is to have a sliding scale of dB so that the GM would know roughly how difficult each encounter is to one another. For example, a fight against a single group of Southerfrog is equivalent in difficulty to three groups of J Popguins. Generally speaking, the recommended dB for a battle can be scaled in accordance with the day. For example, if you have a group of 2 players, that's a total of 20 AP per round. So, the recommended dB per battle might start at 20 dB and increase by 20 each day. An endgame battle might have a dB of 420, meaning two Ambiefox, or a Nefastraven, House Rhino, and Emo Corehog.

I'm in agreement with the 5-Measure battlefield. I like the idea of Noise having access to Treble, Bass, and Tempo, and perhaps we could include the modular build-a-Noise approach by having different potential actions codified as Treble, Bass, or Tempo. Most Bass-actions would be defense, for instance, but we could also have a ground smash attack that could be used by the Pachy R&R.

To make it easy for the GM, we can say that all Noise attacks have a TN of 5 to determine the number of successes. Then we might have certain attacks, such as Dive which does 1 damage per 2 AP. A Decadraven might have 4 Treble, and has Dive(4) costs 4 AP and does 2 damage per success, while a Nefasteraven might have 8 Treble, and its Dive(6) costs 6 AP and does 3 damage per success. The Decadraven will roll 4 dice and do 2 * 2 = 4 damage on a regular Dive, while the Nefast will roll 8 and do 4 * 3 = 12.

Obviously these numbers are just being thrown out there and don't mean anything. (Cont.)

>>47844198
But he also successfully lifted Shiki by the neck when he tried to kill her using telekinesis that one time in front of hachiko.

>>47845026
Yes, which was a combat use in combat against a combatant.

Which means it worked.

>>47845254
That is a huge stretch as a justification. It's just about the mindset. Everything in TWEWY is about mindsets and ideas.
Though things like the following are amusing.
>I use my pin to battle him by stealing his wallet.

Either way, this is the threadly reminder that being true to source material is never worth including a bad idea.

I hope everyone sleeps with that thought.

With Reaper Creeper it was shown psyches have a limited ability to affect the RG. Perhaps one could use an ice pillar psyche repeatedly until a living PC eventually got up to shut the window to stop that draft from getting in, if for some reason a player needed the PC to get up or see something out the window.

If you chose to do a mono-brand character, which brand would you choose?

>>47844783
For example, rolling under 5 might be too much. Alternatively each attack deals a specified amount of damage per success, and the AP cost would modify the roll. In this case, say that Dive always does 2 damage per success. Dive(4) might mean that you would roll under a 4 and the attack still costs 4 AP, so you'd get an average of 3.2 damage. Dive(8) would cost 8 AP and you'd roll under 8, and with 8 Treble you'd do an average of 6.4 damage. In this case, as you can see, the damage doesn't scale as rapidly. So if we want the damage to scale rapidly we can do the other system, while if not then this system is good. The question will be, essentially, whether we want damage to increase or number of successes to increase.

We could link the total additional stats of an enemy to its dB. All Noise have a minimum of 1 in each, and on top of that has stats equal to their dB. For example, the total HP, Treble, Bass, and Tempo of the Brit Popguin should be 18 (+4). We don't yet know how much damage we'll be doing or how the HP should scale, but let's say that every point in HP gives 2 HP, while it takes two points in Tempo to increase movement speed (speed = Tempo/2, rounded down). A Brit Popguin, which might be pretty fast but with low defenses, might have
HP: 5 (*2 = 10)
Treble: 8
Bass: 3
Tempo: 6(/2 = 3)
The Tempo 6 means it's extremely fast thanks to its ability to flop onto its belly and cover three Bands in a single AP. It has reasonable defence but focuses its efforts on its high attack, rolling 8 dice per attack.

The House Rhino, on the other hand, would have a different set, perhaps something like:
HP: 11 (*2 = 22)
Treble: 2
Bass: 8
Tempo: 1(/2 = 0.5 rounds to 0)
The House Rhino is bulky with a high defense, but it's also slow. In fact, it can't move normally at all. Instead, one of its possible actions might be something like "Charge' or "Lumber" which would cost more AP/Measure. For example, Lumber might cost 3 AP to move one Measure.

>>47847099
Under this system, the Dixiefrog (10 dB) would be:
HP: 1(*2 = 2)
Treble: 1
Bass: 1
Tempo: 2(/2 = 1)

In other words, an extremely basic enemy with only 2 HP and the ability to move 1 AP per Measure. It would have the ability to perform a Ranged Attack(1), which has a range of 1 and which does a single damage. Then its behaviour would be:
1-5: Hop: Attack a player in its Measure with Ranged Attack(1).
6-10: Leap. Attack a player in an adjacent Measure with Ranged Attack(1). If there are no players in range, move a single Measure towards the closest players.

>>47846955
I'm a fan of Natural Puppy, J of the M, and Sheep Heavenly, so one of those.

Probably Natural Puppy. They'd be a bullet hell character focusing all the bullet psyches through a toy revolver.

>>47847244
Now that I think about it, Monobrand J of the M focusing the slash moves through a baseball bat and Sheep Heavenly focusing on support via a handbag are also concepts I'd like to play.

>>47847099
I'd say for target numbers having a set TN of 4 or so would work okay. My initial thought was that each Offensive and Defensive action that a Noise is capable of would have its own TN but that may be more trouble than is needed.

Alternately TN may be a factor of encounter difficulty. Higher challenge fights give the Noise higher TNs to roll under, making them more threatening. It could even be a factor of Day; on Day 7 TNs are +2 what they are in earlier days.

As far as Day Limits are concerned, I'd suggest with work under the assumption that this game is built kind of for one-shots that actually last a week, since the events that occur in TWEWY are clearly meant to be unusual and extraordinary, and due to the Composer having a very specific plan of action. I'm not against having more than 7 days, I just think that planning around creates a lot of interesting gameplay possibilities.

>>47846955
Tigre Punks or Dragon Couture

Tiger
-Purple Sneaks for faster light puck
-Access to dash and healing pins
-Cool jacket
-My fav streetjam pin
-All around fast-paced, high mobility build

Dragon
-Solid stratagie by mid Week 2
-Allows me to be prissy and use my fav long ranged attacks
-Allows me to be prissy and dress fly
-That's it

>>47847807
Well, under the second system I proposed, each action would indeed have its own TN.

I agree about building the game to last a week though I'd argue that each day would probably be lengthy enough to be its own session. Regardless, that's why I created the decibel system rather than simply having it be by days. Then we simply figure out how powerful players should be by the end of the week and go from there. If a GM wishes for the campaign to last longer, then he can string out the xp gain and increasing difficulty accordingly. If a GM desired to press the entire expanse of the canon game into a single week, then the GM could make each day's encounter 30 dB more difficult than the previous day's. I plan to yoke the recommended dB for a typical encounter to the total stats of the player party once we figure out how that balances, so that a GM looking to create an encounter easily could simply add up his party's stats (including bonuses from Threads or stickers) and then check against a reference table to determine what would be easy, medium or hard for them.

>>47847807
The question is, how many turns of combat are we generally looking for, assuming an evenly match player versus enemy scenario. If we want combat to go by quickly, then giving players and enemies alike a relatively small HP pool and hard-hitting attacks will ramp up the tension but also make combat quick. If the players go first, it also swings chump noise encounters in their favour, which might lend itself to chaining encounters as happens in the game. In this case, we might balance it so that easy encounters can won in a single round if everything goes smoothly, while boss encounters would be much more difficult -- and much more tense. That might better fit the spirit of the game than trading blows to whittle off HP.

Speaking of which, we can probably calculate HP from the total stats of the players. Someone with 3-4-2-2 in RFIB would have 11 HP, or 22 HP if we choose to double it.

>>47846955
Lapin Angelique
Powerful yet risky bonuses and it gives me an excuse to play a more eccentric character, all while looking dapper as hell
>captcha is storefronts
It's like they know

new anon here. I've been keeping an eye on these threads, but I haven't had the time to read through all of it, just chiming in on the puck passing.

So hear me out: what if Trust DIRECTLY correlates to your initiative? Good teamwork enables you to react faster than the enemy despite them having more raw speed as feral monsters.

>Add all Trust values into a single pool
>Put it up against enemy values, modified by noise configuration and possibly "difficulty"
>Use degrees of success to determine how many of your party act before the enemy, how many alternate with them, and how many only act after all enemies
But here's the important part: the order that players act is LOWEST individual trust FIRST. This is both because the higher trust units should have the more powerful puck multipliers, and to create a mechanical reason why you may not want an untrustworthy person in your party. They have so many ways to mess things up.


This one is a separate thing but also about initiative based: What if ANY player can act out of turn, but that forfeits their chance at holding the puck for that round?

>>47848008
The more I think about it the more I like the idea of Noise TNs being a factor of encounter difficulty rather than internal numbers. That way we only need to worry about 1 set of variables (stats) instead of 2 (stats and TN) when designing Noise.

>>47846955
I could see see myself going one of two ways, mostly with the two main brands that I relied on the most when I played the game.

First is Lapin Angelique because they're very powerful and something you can use almost right away. Problem it it's the suicide brand, so I'll get some bad rolls, die, and fuck over my team mate.

The, second, and likely smarter choice of action is Mus Rattus. They're cheap, required for the early game, and something you had to rely on if you didn't grind your bravery. So, yeah, they're nothing special, but I'm sure I could depend on it. And the saved money would probably help out the partner with their build. I could maybe play them off as somebody stingy, poor, just not concerned much with fashion, or just somebody who's boring and locked in habit. They just buy the same old plain boring clothes and won't give anything else a chance.

What brand do you follow in *real life*?

>>47848560
I'm in agreement with that. The average encounter will probably have a TN of 4, with easy encounters 1-3 and difficult 5-7.

>>47849067
Suicide set-ups will be quite fun in the game. Rev up those evade rolls.

>>47849108
Sadly I'm a follower of the laziness brand, i.e. sitting here typing away on /tg/ in a hoodie and some jeans.

>>47849108
Nike all day every day. You haven't lived until you've spent a week in sweatpants.

I'm a slav at heart.

>>47849108
Mostly just alternate between Mus Rattus, Sheep Heavenly, and Tiger Punks.

>>47849363
>>47849774
>>47849108

Wait, is the question about brand loyalty in real life or just asking us our style in real life? Because it looks like it could go either way.

I kinda wish we had some cross over game between TWEY and Nintendo's Style Savvy because they both focus on clothing/fashion and handle brands the same way.

>>47849108
Well where does Polo Shirts, Denim jackets, jeans and sneakers fall in?

Good night, /twewy/. I hope we get more done tomorrow.

>>47849895
Considering denim jackets are considerwd retro now, i'd say hip snake

>>47849108
Somewhere between mus rattus and maybe wild boar?

a player and npc have gained such a high friendship level that there may be a relationship on the horizon
wat do?

So would friendship with different store clerks be tracked like trust is between other players?
Would that even be a factor in this?

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>>47847244
>pic related

>>47847099
I feel that the health should be multiplied by the amount of players. That would make balancing encounters easier, I think. Normally, what's hard for 3 people is easy for 5, but with multiplying health, it would directly change the amount of challenge the party feels.

x = 3 or 5
2x = 6 or 10
5x = 15 or 25

I think that, because they'll be taking more damage from more players, they should also have enough damage soak to deal with it.

>>47846955
If I was going to munchkin, minmaxed Flow and Bravery LASS, encouraging the entire team to follow my lead and having one person there with the bandaids just in case.

Otherwise, I wouldn't mind seeing a sheep heavenly qt3.14 girl who focuses on avoiding hits and using barriers.

>>47852088
I feel that that would be way too much bookkeeping, unless:

>>47851364
or the campaign spans multiple weeks WITH POWER CREEP

Even if you sparked some kind of deep bond, you can always represent it as a unique article of clothing(headphones, skateboard, etc) or a onetime special food that grants a permanent buff late in the game.

"Trust" with shopkeepers might be better handled for getting information or as plot devices to get more interactions between party members, rather than sorting through miles of shopping lists.

Although I also thought of another one: At specific trust milestones, the store clerk stocks a new brand. No increase in power level, just more diversity.

Cosines bump

>>47853467
could I maybe get some feedback on my ideas?

>>47853619
Which are those?

>>47853795
>>47852745
>>47848370

>>47853801
I don't think we've worked out initiative yet. At the moment, we have no use for Trust as a stat yet and I'd imagine if it WAS a stat, it would fluctuate fairly rapidly. Initiative would be incredibly tricky to nail down because you'd probably need to change it every fight. I thought we were phasing out Trust as a mechanic anyway.

It'd be better to have it remain as a Flow roll, as Flow is literally the speed stat.

I think we're going to have the game play as player turns - noise turns - player turns again any way.

>This one is a separate thing but also about initiative based: What if ANY player can act out of turn, but that forfeits their chance at holding the puck for that round?

But why? How would that work?

Added name so people can call me out on my thoughts easier.

>>47853963
I thought Flow was the EVASION stat, not speed.

>I think we're going to have the game play as player turns - noise turns - player turns again any way.
you mean ALL players, then all noise?

>But why? How would that work?
Assuming that there is an initiative order, a player can act out of order, completing their turn for that round early. Probably to throw an emergency heal or finish off a noise before it can attack. The rest of the round continues as normal as if that player wasn't in the turn stack.

But since they acted out of turn like that, they don't gain any benefits from the puck. Maybe even dispel the puck entirely for that round.

>>47854034
>I thought Flow was the EVASION stat, not speed.
It can be both.

>you mean ALL players, then all noise?
Yep. That's what I thought we were going with. I could be wrong, but that's what I thought it was.

>But since they acted out of turn like that, they don't gain any benefits from the puck. Maybe even dispel the puck entirely for that round.
Well, I can see what you're saying here, but I have a few issues with it. 1) If the initiative works like I thought it did, that wouldn't be particularly useful. 2) I thought you could choose who to pass the puck to on your turn. Were we still doing combopassing? 3)Dispelling the puck would reset the counter. Wouldn't you rather keep the counter high than blow it all away?

>>47854167
The sense I'm getting from the posts above is that Flow is deception and evasion, rather than raw speed/reaction time.

I am running off the assumption that the light puck passes according to initiative order.

>Wouldn't you rather keep the counter high than blow it all away?
that's the point: you're sacrificing quite a lot just to burst all your pins before the enemy, even more if you're up against Taboo Noise.

It creates a tension on how far you're willing to wait "for the benefit of the team" and the temptation for individual, independent action. Even if it's to save a life, you're saying that teamwork(light puck) isn't what's needed.

>>47854250
>The sense I'm getting from the posts above is that Flow is deception and evasion, rather than raw speed/reaction time.
I always saw it as one of the three foundations of martial arts, motion, alongside strength and skill, with Bravery being determination.

>I am running off the assumption that the light puck passes according to initiative order.
Guess that means we're on completely different tangents then. It's kinda dumb arguing apples and oranges.

>You're sacrificing quite a lot just to burst all your pins before the enemy, even more if you're up against Taboo Noise.
But what about AC? Doesn't that refresh at the start of your turn? Unless you're talking about moving your turn to right behind the person who's currently having a turn. In which case, it can be so easily abused unless you add stipulations to that.

>>47854351
what AC? Do you mean AP?

Overall, acting out of turn(let's call it scratch or spin or something) gives you less AP, since you forfeit whatever AP bonus you could have piled up from the puck.

>>47854405
Yeah, AP. Mixing game terms up.

Still, assuming I was playing with my munchkining group (which I will once we get this somewhat finished), they'll figure out the following:

Turn order:
Friend A
Friend B
Friend C
Noise

Friends A and B finish their turn and prepare to win combat by the end of Friend C's turn.

Friend C doesn't kill the noise, and prepares to be beaten down.

Friend A decides to have a turn now by losing puck bonus. He doesn't kill the enemies.

Friend B decides to have a turn now, too, by losing the puck bonus. etc, etc, etc.

Infinite loops don't make for good game mechanics. Sure, they get "only 6 AP per turn" but they have infinite amounts of 6 AP.

>>47854551
....oh. You think "out of turn" means "can do it more than once a round". I mean that you can take your turn FOR THAT ROUND early, and that you can't do it again until the next round.

>>47854595
Not only me, but DMs who don't comprehend it as it should be read or players who want to cheese the system.

In addition, where would your initiative be after that round? Where it is now or where it was before? Is this mechanic really necessary beyond changing where you want to be in the turn order?

>>47854656
I guess it could be stated more explicitly, but I figured
>completing their turn for that round early
>The rest of the round continues as normal as if that player wasn't in the turn stack.
was clear enough?

>Where it is now or where it was before?
where it was before, whatever the rules for that are. Keep things modular.

>necessary
it allows more options in combat, keeps players paying attention to the fight even when it isn't their turn, and I'm trying to reinforce the themes of teamwork.

So no, it's not necessary. But where are you going with that line of reasoning?

>>47854716
>it allows more options in combat
I've never seen this before as a mechanic in a game, so maybe that's why I'm skeptical, but I don't think adding more options is strictly necessary for this game. If this was in, say, D&D, the only time you wouldn't use it as a fighter would be when you are waiting for the opponent to move closer. Depending on the type of party you have, this will either be used every turn to go first or never. It is, technically, a choice, but I guess the thought process behind it would either be "can I kill that now" or "will that kill me?". Players are inherently munchkining bastards who would sell their own parents if it furthered the game.

>keeps players paying attention to the fight even when it isn't their turn
"I go first and attack" then goes back to playing with their phone.

I might sound like a grumpy old prick, but my experience with players has been similar to that. Of the people that do pay attention though, they can pay attention after and before their turns too.

>I'm trying to reinforce the themes of teamwork.
By adding a mechanic that works against that idea.

No, I see what is being done by adding a negative (in the aspect of teamwork) element in here.

>So no, it's not necessary. But where are you going with that line of reasoning?
Our combat is currently planned to be quite streamlined, so adding something that interrupts the flow (for lack of a better word) of combat feels somewhat tacked on to me. But it wouldn't be the first time I was wrong in this thread.

>>47855041
>Players are inherently munchkining bastards who would sell their own parents if it furthered the game.
a fair(and funny) perspective to have. I'm sure it needs a bit more tweaking so that it functionally isn't a black and white choice.

There isn't much in the way of status ailments or flinching in TWEWY, so it IS incompatible in some ways mechanically.

>but my experience with players has been similar to that.
yes, that's why. If there is the opportunity to jump in and save someone or steal the killing blow, isn't that an incentive to not be looking at their phone?

Granted, it's not going to solve the problem by itself, but I like to think that it would help.

>>47855150
>If there is the opportunity to jump in and save someone or steal the killing blow, isn't that an incentive to not be looking at their phone?
You're still innocent! Run! Save yourself!

But seriously, if I say that someone did 12 damage to the enemy, they wouldn't care. If they're playing with their phone or otherwise occupied, they probably don't care much for either that combat or for combat in general for this game. Either that or they're playing a healing character and just sit in the corner doing nothing.

This game will function differently to D&D, as non-combat stuff can be done just as easily by the face-smashing hulk as it can for the little girl who sticks bandaids on people instead of fighting. Therefore, the combat is the only thing that will play differently for each character (to a degree).

Yes, players will still fail (stat) rolls if they haven't invested in (stat), but ultimately what differentiates the players in the game comes down to is combat. Someone who puts up an aqua barrier or other similar invincible pin will probably just sit there until it runs out because as long as you don't run out of health, your team is fine.

>>47855150
>Not much in the way of statis ailments or flinching
At the very least, there is Attack and Defense Break, Stun, and Poison, plus attacks do cause hitstun flinching.

>>47855150
>>47856414
I thought immobility was an important one

>>47856414
I'd rather there not be hitstun flinch in the trpg. Unless you're using it as the reason whatever you're hitting is not immediately hitting you back, knock back/down should only be on some pins.

And you forgot Drain, which is like burning.

I'm off to bed. See you guys when I wake.

>>47856414
So here's an idea of how Status Effects should work.

Each Effect is related to one of your four Stats:

>Rhythm = Attack Break
>Flow= Immobility
>Insight= HP Drain
>Bravery= Defense Break

When you attempt to inflict one of these affects on a Noise, you roll 1d10 and try to roll under your Stat. If a Player is targeted, they make the same roll but as a Save.

Attack Break and Defense break knock 1 dice off the pool used for attack and defense, respectively. Immobility prevents a target from moving to a different Measure, and HP Drain inflicts follow-up damage.

If you have a Pin or Thread that improves an effect, it adds extra d10s to your pool that you try to roll under, improving your odds of inflicting it.

For simplicity's sake I'd say that each Effect only lasts for one Round.

>>47854250
>The sense I'm getting from the posts above is that Flow is deception and evasion, rather than raw speed/reaction time.

Here's my thought for Flow, expressed via a Move skill.

Move: Your ability to traverse space and find ideal routes through unknown terrain.
>Move: Rhythm- All out running to pursue or escape
>Move: Flow- Move with agility through trickey terrain or go unnoticed with stealth by blending in with your surroundings.
>Move: Insight- Determine the quickest, safest or otherwise best path through an area
>Move: Bravery- Press ahead in spite of hindering conditions.

Rhythm is what you want for pure athletic speed, Flow for anything requiring stealth or acrobatics (including blending in with crowds), Insight for working out confusing routes and Bravery for shrugging off conditions that would make it hard for you to move.

>>47853801

>>47852745
>Even if you sparked some kind of deep bond, you can always represent it as a unique article of clothing(headphones, skateboard, etc) or a onetime special food that grants a permanent buff late in the game.

That would be a good way to reward building relationships, kind of like Persona.

>Although I also thought of another one: At specific trust milestones, the store clerk stocks a new brand. No increase in power level, just more diversity.
Part of the simplicity of TWEWY's shopping system is that every store carried just one Brand, which meant a.) you needed to learn the layout of Shibuya to know where all the stores are and b.) each store had its own character. I kind of like that, though obviously it's not the only way for a GM to go.

One final thing: Money

My thinking is that we should abstract monetary rewards, yes? Money could just be a generic second stat called Cash, and you have small numbers, so a Burger costs just 1 Cash instead of 350 yen or $3.50 or 2.00 GBP or Euros whatever the currency of the UG you're in is.

>>47855457
I think you're definitely onto something here, and it's something that you seem like you've got the kind of mind to think about, namely how do maximize Player excitement and involvement in combat?

That's a major point of why I've lobbied so hard to keep movement and positioning as streamlined as possible, because it keeps combat from being bogged down with minutae which can leave the non-active players to let their attention wander. It's also why I suggested having all the Noise act basically at once under the GM's control-- because it limits the time between when a Player ends his turn and when he gets to go again.

>>47859330
>It's also why I suggested having all the Noise act basically at once under the GM's control

I support this too. TWEY was not a slow paced tactical game like lots of JRPGs. It was very fast, hectic, and twitchy. As such, a table top adaptation should have combat that moves as quickly as possible.

>>47859088
It should be fairly easy for the GM to keep track of the various NPC's relationships to the player party. We could include some sort of easy single-sheet tracking form for the GM that includes a table for NPC relationships and so forth.

>>47859330
Yes, that's precisely why I've calibrated the dB system so that a typical battle will have 2-3 enemies* in it, whose entire turns are decided with a roll apiece. The Players can also use Reactions during the enemy round and even get a special set of AP for it, so that they don't simply sit back and take damage. If a GM wanted to, he could coalesce the 2-3 enemies into a single group and simply add the stats accordingly, which I'll line out in the rules.

*2-3 groups of enemies that are each treated as a single enemy.

>>47859088
>only one brand
Not entirely true. Ignoring Unbranded, one of the shops carried Mus Ratus and Hip Snake, and I'm sure there's other shops like that.

>>47852745
>>47859088
>>47861604
As much as some stores had multiple brands, some stores should be single brand. Much like IRL, if the company owns the store they're only gonna stock their own stuff

>>47861604
It is *mostly* true.
The obviously individually owned stores sold multiple, but usually up to two, brands, but the stores that are named after a brand only sell items of that brand. And maybe unbranded, but those don't count, and the occasional Gatito item quest.

So Cosmic Corner sells Hip Snake and two Tigre Punks threads, but Lapin Angelique, Dragon Couture, etc. all only sell their brand's threads.

>>47861856
Ah, thanks for the insight on that, my understanding was clearly incomplete in that area.

>>47860853
Speaking of Noise, what do you think about calling the Noise HP stat "Fidelity"? That limits the awkwardness of Noise HP being 2x its HP stat.

File: emotion_matrix.pdf (1 B, 486x500) Image search: [Google]

1 B, 486x500

Another though about Noise:

We can introduce a characteristic to Noise called "Channel". A Noise's Channel is what kind of emotional state they are spawned from. Channel informs Noise on the breed level, not individually. Frogs and Sprogs, for instance, could be Channeled from Envy, while Wolves would be Channel from Hate, Ravens from Greed, Corehogs from Spite, etc...

It would be a useful tool to for GMs, as could quickly choose appropriate Noise based on the emotional content of a scene. Double so since Tenra Bansho Zero has a "Emotion Matrix" that we can expand into a d10 form for our purposes.

Captcha: So many storefronts...

>>47862886
I don't like this matrix for this game. Not one bit.

>>47863177
Care to elaborate?

>>47862886
Neat, I like the idea of the Channel as part of an emotional scene.

The whole "Noise HP is 2x its HP stat" would only be for the purpose of building noise. In the actual bestiary it would simply be listed as the double stat. Same with Tempo being listed as its actual value. I'm not actually sure whether or not we'll double the points put in HP -- as I said, that depends entirely on how high our Player numbers go.

What do you think of tuning it so that most medium-difficulty encounters can be over in 1-2 rounds? Obviously boss encounters and the like would go on for longer.

I just thought of a terrible pun that we absolutely shouldn't use. What if we refer to its attack stat as its Hertz, because it...hurts.

I think somebody in the last thread mentioned ORE. Using that or something like it might be useful in trying to keep combat and the like going quickly, since it is meant for you to get multiple results out of a single roll.

>>47862493
>Fidelity
I don't like "Fidelity" simply because the term describes the quality of not having powerful noise. It makes no sense for describing a Noise's stats. It might make sense for players general Noise-fighting power level but not for Noise HP. If decibels weren't already being used to describe Noise's general power level "Volume" might make sense to describe Noise HP.

>>47863221
I love One Roll Engine, which is why I suggested the TBZ system that we're using, because it's also a one-roll system

>>47863388
Fuck, I'm so behind here. Oh, I haven't played TBZ, only heard about it. I'll have to look it over then and go over these threads more.

also....
>basing a system for a JRPG off of a Japanese table top rpg
Appropriate. Like I don't think that was the intention, but still...

>>47863193
It doesn't make any sense for Noise to spring up from... fraternity, acquaintanceship, nearly any desire, most pursuits, nostalgia, "like a child" like fondness", admiration, "hmmm", loyalty, "I am salvation", "Deep Impression", or half the other shit on there. And what is "Annihilation" supposed to mean in the context of an emotion? Hate #2? Are all the "good" emotions, impressions, and adjectives on there supposed to render pig Noise? That's a lot of pigs. Does the DM just reroll? That's a lot of reroll.

>>47862886
>Sprogs, for instance, could be Channeled from Envy, while Wolves would be Channel from Hate, Ravens from Greed, Corehogs from Spite, etc...

Those are already all from the Seven Deadly Sins. Can we just run start from there and simplify the whole thing?

Envy - Jealousy - Frogs/Tadpoles
Wrath - Hatred - Wolves
Greed - Ravens
Gluttony - let's be real, same thing as greed in a modern context
Pride - Fear (holding yourself above others and being afraid of being taken down or seen for what you are) - Bear
Lust - Unrequited Yearning - Shark
Lethargy - Dissatisfaction - Elephant

This can be calculated with a single D6 with no rerolls, a D7 if you want to include "Contentment/Serenity/Riviere/etc. - Pig" as a randomly encounterable Noise.

>>47863209
>What if we refer to its attack stat as its Hertz, because it...hurts.
OMG

Actually that's a lot more intuitive than Treble. If we can come up with something better for describing noise Defense than Bass (not that Treble and Bass aren't already good names for the stats, I was really impressed with them actually) then we should consider using that/those instead imo. I'd like to think all the terminology is at least somewhat up-in-the-air and down for brainstorming and improvement at this stage.

>>47863662
those are all the "Noise symbols" in the game other than bosses and the reaper/player/human skull. presumably all other noise (jellies, popguins, etc.) would be grouped in with those six Noise symbols the same way they are in the game, unless you want to get really Rouge about it and have Noise appear in randomly generated sets.

>>47863546
That was his exact stated intention, yes.

>>47863662
Oh I agree that those feelings won't spawn Noise, but that doesn't mean that the emotion matrix is useless. TBZ uses it to add some unpredictability to NPC encounters. We can use them together to create random scenarios that may or may not lead to combat.

>>47859232
The idea behind cash is pretty solid. But it needs another name.

Hz? Ohms? Watt? I have a weakness for really bad sound puns. But whatever.

On a side note, there's this sound term called Pin 2 Hot, which is insanely awesome and I don't know what it could be used for but there it is.

>>47846955
>brand
Tigre Punks cause that shit's awesome. And some pretty decent abilities.

But if I were totally honest, I'd probably go with J of the M due to my predisposition towards Shockwave pins.