>>47751822
I want something like the Trends system in, where the trends influence the players and vice versa.
I'm not sure if we actually need pin loadouts. Other than neku, everyone only used a single pin. Also other than Neku, everyone had some kind of object they used their pin through. Even Joshua chaneled Groove Pawn through his cell phone.

>>47751896
Why not have every player have a combat "style" linked to a specific brand?

For example, Shiki's example is from D+B and Beat is a Wild Boar style user.

>>47752211
Did each Brand have a "thing"? It's been so long I forget, and by the time I'd stopped i was using all black planet, all the time anyway.

I am all over this, although I don't actually have any ideas...
Time as a resource could be interesting?
>>47752487
Kind of? Natural Puppy had a huge line of Force Rounds/Energy Rounds (the tap/slash to fire bullets pins), I think one other brand had some Force Rounds too but a lot of psychs were limited to one or two brands (Ignoring Gatito, which did whatever the hell it wanted)

>>47752487
I don't know all of them off the top of my head, but Mus Rattus had plenty of affordable low-bravery clothes and various defensive and healing pins and J of the M had an entire suite of combo slashes.

>>47752642
Very good point, each brand definitely had a general bravery range and price range (with women's stuff being exceptionally high BRV, of course)

Importantly, we have to decide if we're running TWEWY (i.e. in the game's Shibuya UG), or Reaper's Games which could be in any UG

>>47751896
Maybe instead of hard caps, each fashion style improves a stat along a scale?

>>47752609
If we're gonna say any brand had a thing, Gatito had Set Bonuses, with some of the pins just plain doing nothing without their set.

>>47752791
I'd say Gatito is an NPC-only brand.
It's the special snowflake brand and should not be in the hands of the players, no matter how much they want to play Neku.

>>47752819
I like that idea. And i think, even if TWEWY didn't so much give each brand a Thing, we should.
Pavo Real did a lot of status effects, didnt it? I just remember i hated the Pavo Real floor of Pig City because Pavo has like no damage pins.

>>47752863
Nat Puppy's thing was bullets, J of the M had slashes. Sheep Heavenly had press commands like crackle pop barrier.

>>47752909
So we have:
Natural Puppy - Ranged Projectiles
J of the M - Melee strikes
Gatito - NPC Brand
Pavo Real - Status Effects

Maybe D+B is debilitation? When i think of D+B i think of the ice pillar moves that air juggled people.

>>47752934
D+B also has Psychokinesis, see Shiki's Piggy.

>>47752934
D+B had a heavy Psychokinesis theme.

>>47752950
Even more debilitation then, since that could throw Noise all over.

>>47752958
You can't move noise with it. Just objects in the environment. D+B's theme is relocation of others.

>>47752966
See it's been way too long since i played TWEWY, i could have sworn you could throw smaller Noise.
We should probably come up with some sort of stats or resolution system. Do we tie it into pins and brands or make it independent?

>>47752934
Looking at the wiki...
Mus Rattus - Elemental Cores (Creates the orb that circles neku) and a lot of variety. Has the best Supply Boost pin
Tigre Punks - Melee pins (Velocity Attack/Crash, Spear Strike, Vortex Saber)
Lapin Angelique - Force/Burst Rounds, Stellar Furry, Lightning Bolt. Seems pretty kiting-prone
Dragon Couture - Burst Rounds, Pyrokinesis, Psychokinesis, Thundercloud. Ranged-heavy
Hip Snake - Lots of status debuffs and CC (Rock Bind, Freeze, Holy Light, Ignition, Frostbite), also Thunderstorm
D+B - Piercing Pillar, Psychokinesis, Earthquake (only has one, but it's the only branded earthquake)
That's about all I have time for right now

Though, again, I think it'd be more interesting to have a system you could use to run a Reaper's Game set where you please. Admittedly it'd be a tougher task...

>>47751822
Actually, I've been toying around with the idea for a while, just didn't have a lot of time recently to work on it due to real-life issues.
http://pastebin.com/Cg2DdnR4
The one thing that stumped me was how to balance brands, while kepping them relatively themed like in TWEWY.

>>47752995
The system can be placed anywhere, we just keep the brands the same. It's a minor detail what the thirteen brands are called and what they look like, someone could use Gap, Armani, and Hot Topic as easily as Natural Puppy, Dragon Coture, and Tigre Punks.

>>47752995
Jupiter of the Monkey was heavily into slashing melee attacks.

What about unbranded pins? Where would they fit in?

>>47755231
unbranded would be simply that: unbranded
it can fall into any number of roles
perhaps they have the advantage/disadvantage of being unaffected by the trend system, if that ends up being incorporated

>>47755821
So what, everyone gets access to basic psyches but then has choices about what they have access to beyond that?

Earlier in the thread, they were discussing having certain brands off limits so it would be similar to the game. I guess some exp based system to learn how to either use different brands or evolve pins you currently have or what have you.

>>47753063
Well the 12 brands were each supposed to represent a zodiac animal so there was that.

Also I'd like to chime in that Sheep Heavenly should be the healing/support class.

>>47755992
Each player should have a single focus object (Skateboard, Doll, Cellphone, etc...) that they align to a certain brand. They should probably come up with a handful of attacks/techniques that are in theme with their brand.

In the interest of game design, it may be beneficial if pins/wildcard style techniques are also available but most players wouldn't have a particular affinity for them. Depending on how long the game goes on it may be advantageous to allow players the opportunity to get a second item with a secondary brand.

>>47752755
>decide if we're running TWEWY (i.e. in the game's Shibuya UG), or Reaper's Games which could be in any UG
Use the Shibuya UG as the examples since we are doing TWEWY, but mention the other reaper games as operating similar.
>similar to the game
Ingame everyone was tied to only one brand. Except Neku because he's got a cheater helping him.
Shouldn't we first figure out the resolution system and stats and such before working on pins and junk?

>>47752995
Lapin clothes were also THE best Crisis (start at low health, get a stat boost) items in the game.

>>47756080
Exactly this. Unless the game is explicitly set in Shibuya, brands should differ based on the tastes of the players, the style of the characters and the imagination of the GM.

Each player could basically come up with their own Brand as they create their character, with rules for what it does and the overall style of its powers. That sets the template that the GM uses to expand the world.

Brands shouldn't exist in a void: they are a product of the collective will of the population.

>>47756083
>Shouldn't we first figure out the resolution system and stats and such before working on pins and junk?

Ideally, yes. Or start with character creation and suss it out from there.

>>47756111
Ah, the LASS trick. Suicide was the best fighting style.

>>47756388
I vote for 2d10(2d6 is fine too) TN System. stats... how many do we want? What do they represent?

>>47756080
Would you use separate brands or separate attack types? Like, say, a person with a wooden sword might learn shockwave attacks but Mus Rattus has a shockwave pin as well as J of the M.

There are others, too, but that's the first I thought of. Any of the -rounds would also count, because I think a few brands have them even though Natural Puppy has the most.

Also, could one weapon have many techniques? Like my sword example before, could it have lance lunge skills too?

>>47756534
Combat stats should be pretty standard:
Strength
Agility/Dex
Constitution
Courage/Determination/Strength of Spirit (this would dictate the power of projectiles and shit. Basically the 'magic' stat).

Noncombat stats should be something like:
Intelligence/Wisdom
Charisma
Affinity

Affinity should represent your ghost powers. Players with higher affinity can more easily read minds; can sense noise more easily (everyone should be able to tell when crazy strong noise is about to manifest but high affinity characters would be able sense even weaker/wounded noise); and would be the only characters capable of imprinting ideas onto the minds of the living.

>>47756534
What's a TN system?

As for the stats, it depends on how complex we want it all to be. I think just mental strength, physical strength, defense, health and bravery. That's 4 plus health.

Question: do we think it is necessary to do it as Pins? On the one hand, Pins are kind of iconic to TWEWY, but on the other hand they're not necessarily something that you'd see lots of outside of Japan. They could very well be some other kind of accessory that's native to the area where the Game is being held.

Then again you could always interpret it as being something that the Reapers prefer.

>>47756083
>Shouldn't we first figure out the resolution system and stats and such before working on pins and junk?
I'd love to do it in One Roll Engine but it's a more obscure system that I'm sure most other players would prefer to avoid.

>>47756552
I don't think we should have 1:1 attack carryovers from the game. In your sword example I think that your player would choose which brand they wanted to be aligned with. If they chose JotM they would focus on agile slashes and possibly limited teleportation/flash steps. If your player chose Wild Boar they would have more strength based charges and forceful attacks rather than finesse centric techniques.

You could probably justify shocwaves/projectiles in either brand but they wouldn't be as strong as if your player was Natural Puppy or Mus Rattus (or even Pegaso) aligned. You would justify a shockwave in different brands differently. Mus Rattus users would channel their spirit into their attacks while Wild Boar/JotM users would pull off your standard 'I swing with so much force/speed that I create shockwaves'.

It's important to remember that this is a game played in duos. Similar to MtG, I would envision each player having limited utility in combat and only really excelling with a partner.

>>47756607
I think we can be a lot more creative than this. Players in the Reaper's Game are disembodied souls; why would their physical strength and dexterity be of any importance?

TWEWY is a game all about one's relationship to the collective consciousness of the place that they're in. You become more powerful when you dress and fight in a way that matches the mind-set of your surroundings, and likewise your actions in the UG can reflect upon the attitude of the RG.

>>47756700
>It's important to remember that this is a game played in duos. Similar to MtG, I would envision each player having limited utility in combat and only really excelling with a partner.

Not sure if that's strictly necessary. Combat in the DS game was done in duos because it suited the platform (single player RPG using two screens and input methods). Tabletop is a completely different platform and the rules should change to reflect that.

so, are we looking at brands like a class system, or something else?
technically irrelevant, but just wondering; if that was the case, what would you choose?

>>47756703
That's why I included affinity and courage, to represent the less physical aspects of the UG. The problem with what you're suggesting is that it's either basically proposing a single stat (spirit energy) that is used throughout, or it's suggesting stats like 'fashionableness' that are exclusive to the game system/stats and don't really feel like organic statistics.

As an aside, it's a game. Why wold eating hotdogs give you more maximum HP if you were a ghost? Sometimes stats have to exist in order to make a well designed/balanced game, good gameplay ought to trump flavor every time.

>>47756714
One of the primary themes of the reaper's game was duos. It may be possible for a tabletop system to tweak the numbers of a party but keep in mind that the ultimate goal of the reaper's game is for a group to come back to life and that there can only be one winner. If players aren't explicitly placed in groups/parties there is little reason for them to work together.
>>47756739
Brands would probably function similarly to classes in that they would determine the general fighting techniques (ranged, melee, telekinetic etc...) but the actual way that these styles are used could be pretty varied. A Natural Puppy (projectile/force energy) based player could be a melee brawler if they used gloves or something and then created 'bubbles' of force or something around them. I think that it's better to think of brands as schools of magic in D&D; conjuration specialist A might be very different from conjuration specialist B but they would both ultimately use the same tools to yield different effects.

>>47756852
Actually I agree with what you're saying, just that enforcing "duos" isn't necessarily the best idea since many tabletop experiences are with groups of more than 2 people. You could just as easily have a group of 3-5 involved in the game and still has the same basic rules (shared HP, combat synergy, combo attacks)

>>47751896
I'd like pin loadouts so that people can have more interesting and varied skills and combinations rather than relying on a single one, which is rather limiting. I agree about people requiring an object through which to channel.

Rather than duos, what about some sort of communal "puck"? Once you land a particularly good move, the puck travels to someone else. That gives everyone in combat a chance to sign as long as people can move in tandem. This would require some sort of synchronisation that might be difficult to achieve mechanically, but I'm sure we could figure something out.

I also disagree that people should their own individual stats. Instead, gaining experience on their pins and so on should supplant that, since the focus of TWEWY is greatly on fashion and loadouts for a reason, rather than personal stats. If they have individual stats, it should be unique, such as HP or synchronisation.

>>47756758
Actually what I'm thinking is building the stats from the ground up to suit the themes and style of the source material, instead of imposing standard tabletop RPG conceits onto source material that has wholey non-standard.

Something like:

Rhythm
>You have a tough, relentless mindset. You go at problems head-on, striking at them beat after beat, again and again until they crumble before you. In combat, you prefer to hit hard and fast with little fuss. Out of combat you deal with people by forcing and intimidation.

Flow
>Your mind is like a stream: problems are things to move circumnavigated, not smashed through. You yield to the inertia of existance and let yourself be carried along by its currents, ready to confront challenges as they come. In combat, you like to attack indirectly, inflicting harm with the world around you using telekinesis. Out of combat, you handle problems by fast-talking and sneakery.

Insight
>Your mind is keen like a razor. You peer through misdirection and confusion to see the heart of matters and find the one correct solution at all times. In combat, you like to attack with precise, focused blows, wasting no energy and always certain that your strategy is the correct one. Out of combat, you analyze and predict, reasoning through both problems and people.

Bravery
>You think with your heart, not your brain. You trust your passion to lead you to the correct answer, and to burn through whatever might try and stop you. In combat, you are as a wildfire, striking out in any direction to cause the greatest effect possible to the greatest number of foes. Out of combat, you try to win people over with empathy and raw charisma, bonding with them through mutual understanding.

Those are just a quick draft and there's clearly space for development and fleshing out, but that's the general idea. It's not necessarily a complete list but I think it better suits the themes and tone of TWEWY.

>>47756607
>>47756703
>>47756714

What I'm gathering from you guys is something like this; the stats should be kept simple. To >>47756607, what would Charisma even be used for? That should be Bravery, and it works to let you wear clothes that are stronger, but also more embarrassing, such as the LASS, which requires a whopping 170 or so bravery in game to wear, meaning it was pretty much end-game gear for beating bosses.

It's basically the thing that lets you have your magical clothes to replace your other stats.

In addition, Int/Wis has no place there. If you need a knowledge stat, make it Knowledge. The real question is, in a game about running around, killing noise, what use is the knowledge stat? Everything your players learn will be new info anyway, so why would they have knowledge as a stat?

Affinity is also useless because, as far as I know, all players can sense all noise and imprint and everything as good as everyone else. It'd be better if it was based on the ability to change the fashion trends. It could be called Influence. The higher your Influence, the faster people like the brands you wear and use.

This would bring our setup to:
Strength
Speed (Agi/Dex)
Constitution (I don't like this as a stat, though I'm not sure how to change it. Split into Toughness and Health, maybe?)
Willpower

And the non-combat would be:
Bravery
Influence

And I could see Speed basically just giving yourself more actions to do things, where actions would cost so many points in a round and would give you the ability to deal some nasty attacks faster. I'm not entirely sure how to implement this though.

>>47756703
>why would their physical strength and dexterity be of any importance?

Need I remind you that Beat managed to brute-force his way past walls?

>>47756714
How would being linked up like they are in the game affect (or effect?) the gameplay? Would they all share a health total? What else would happen?

>>47756653
>do we have to do it as pins
I would say yes, it may not be that popular outside of Japan, but it is closely connect to twewy

But say we didn't, then what could the powers be connected to? Clothes? Different powers to different designers? Accessories? Cut out the middle man and just say that Joshua's phone and shiki's doll had the power in them?

>>47757142
For Beat and Shiki at least there's some kind of material (I think supplementary) that says exactly what Psyches they are using. Shiki uses one of the Psychokinesis psyches, for example, though I don't remember which one. Neku is described as being unique because he can use lots of different psyches instead of just one.

For a tabletop game you'd want to hit some kind of middle ground. Characters ability should be contained within certain parameters but not be limited to only a single kind of attack.

>>47757047
Sort of reminds me of some game I played on the fate system. Based on video games, whenever someone made an above average roll they started a 'combo' which could be continued by succeful rolls by their team members. With each successive roll the attacks got higher and the rewards as well. But if you failed then the combo died.

>>47757091
So how about something like this then
STR+Dex=Coordination(COR). Used for physical tasks of all sorts. [Physical] and [Ranged] pins attack and are defended against by this.
Durability(DUR): Controls HP pool and Status resistance. Physical checks that rely on endurance may use this instead, at the Player's choice. Increases effectiveness of [Heal] and [buff] pins.
Bravery(BRV): The [magic] attack stat, as well as governing evasion vs [magic] Pins. Also governs mental endurance and other such willpower related endeavors. This includes wearing clearly off-gender clothing.
Influence(INF): You set the trends here in |place|. Your brand gains popularity faster, and you enjoy higher stat boosts for popularity. Unfortunately, your brand's lows also hit you harder. This governs the strength of [Debuff] pins.
This assumes a standard "single action turn" of move>attack, but separating Coordination back into STR and DEX wouldn't change too much. I tried to give every stat a Pin effect tied to it and a short advertisement blurb(Some are better than others). Brackets are tags for pins.

>>47757142
Insignias or patches could work. Alternatively, if we are going for the more set in stone style of gameplay where characters don't really change their combat style, tattoos would be another option. Tattoos are used throughout the world.

y'know, we could just explain it by saying these brands have gained popularity in [location], along with the pins

>>47757073
>>47757230
i like the general concept that both of these are going for
fewer stats with more versatile uses

>>47757183
All Psychs are in pins.
Neku is the only one who can use ALL pins, barring Shiki's, Beat's, and presumably Rhyme's.

>>47757047
People seem to forget that HP was a communal pool in TWEWY.

>>47757324
You could also affect it, however. So it should be pretty mutable, the players using certain brands, random table events, and just going on a quick quest should all change it.
And there should be an obligatory quest to make the O-Parts/O-Pin the most popular thing in a few areas.

>>47757230
I like this, but all [ranged] pins I can think of are all magical anyway and would use the bravery stat anyway. Even psychokinesis, which would do magic damage to the physical defense.

I think Coordination could be split again, with Dex being related to movement speed and the velocity pins. Str wouldn't really govern them because it's more of a shoulder charge than a power related attack.

But I feel they should have different names. Strength and Dex are so cliche and terrible.

>>47757246
They could always be reflavoured as the GM see fit, and perhaps we could even showcase different

I would caution against a set in stone style of gameplay, though I wouldn't let people switch out at any given moment.

>>47757425
>People seem to forget that HP was a communal pool in TWEWY.

That's exactly what I mean. I don't think that PCs should have individual stats, only those dictated by their clothing and pins and influence.

>>47757471
This here. It's more important to figure out the exact functions of Psyches than what form they take, which one can infer would be different in the various areas where the Reaper's Game is being held.

>>47757486
I don't know about not having individual stats, some stats should be shared/collective for the trust theme, but not EVERYTHING.
Having everything shared will probably disconnect players from characters a bit too much.

>>47757486
I think that's not quite in the spirit of the source material. The core of TWEWY is that it's about individuals learning to support one another and understand each other, and figuring out their relationship with the world-at-large. Mechanics should be built around a combination of individual stat values and group resources (like HP, combat momentum, synchronicity, etc...)

>>47757426
>But I feel they should have different names. Strength and Dex are so cliche and terrible.
Again, something like what I posted >>47757073 <<here may be a good starting point. Something that brings in the musical references of TWEWY (Rhythm, Flow) along with the themes of co-understanding and realization.

>>47757507
That's a good point, and in game you shared HP but had separate attack and defense. I'm not personally sold on a tabletop with shared hp, but it could still be interesting.

Had a thought to flip it around. Not sharing HP but having a team sync stat that could be affected and under a certain amount would be a penalty, above a certain amount would be a buff?

>>47757486
The idea of upgrading your equipment a la vagrant story fits totally with the game's tone.

>>47757426
>they should have different names
Power(POW) and Coordination(COR,CRD, whatever). Coordination works well for Dex anyway, and Power is a decent replacement for STR. Probably not the best, but respectable enough. >>47757539 Has a good suggestion though.
>>47757486
Clothes can't give stats without having a basis for what stats they give, even with no PC stats.

>>47757542
>That's a good point, and in game you shared HP but had separate attack and defense. I'm not personally sold on a tabletop with shared hp, but it could still be interesting.

One way you could conceivably do it without having a shared HP total is for characters to have their own HP stats, and when they're depleted they're knocked "Out of Tune" or something similarly musical where they're somehow penalized but can keep fighting, and if all characters are Tuned Out then the party wipes.

Just off the top of my head though. Might be a bad idea. The problem with pooled HP is that it means that a character being defeated in combat is meaningless-- either everyone survives or everyone dies. Which works fine for a video game but not for a tabletop game.

>>47757727
I like the Out of Tune idea if that's the direction we're going but I agree on the pooled HP issue. It's not a big deal that you're playing the squishy high damage ranged character and got caught by surprise, because the team has plenty of HP to spare, because that other guy all the way over there built high HP

>>47757758
Frankly HP in most games is all a matter of GM manipulation, since most good GMs aren't actually aiming to kill their player characters, just create the atmosphere that the scenario they are in might infact kill them in order to create tension and force players to take bigger risks. In a lot of games actually dying kind of sucks, unless the game is built with the knowledge that it's highly likely you will die (such as in games designed for one-shots).

What's significant to me in TWEWY is that HP is variable with reward. You can drop your HP to dangerously low levels to increase your payouts anytime you want. Now I'm not saying that you should necessarily be able to do that in TWEWY tabletop, but think about what that means.

Aside from the fact that you're a ghost hanging out in limbo, it's clear that HP can't just represent your physical resistance to damage, because you can change it so freely. It must therefore represent something more flexible and ephemeral. Maybe what HP represents is a pair's (or indeed party's) level of interconnection and willingness to take risks. In a spiritual world like the UG, toughness isn't necessarily linked with your actual brawn, but with your resolve to keep going. So even more than in other games, HP is an abstraction of battle readiness.

>>47757586
That's exactly what I mean. Keep the upgrades to equipment and so on rather than to the self.

I think it might be important to lay out the themeing of the game before we get too deep here.

Trust is the big one.
Trust your partner. You don't have to like your partner, but you have to trust them.
You have to trust that your partner won't eat through all your HP, and keep each other healed so it doesn't happen. You have to coordinate to not waste the light puck, especially against Taboo, which couldn't be hurt otherwise.
You can't backstab your partner or you'll both be helpless.
You also built up trust with shopkeepers, who would then clue you in to hidden abilities of their brand's gear.

The UG wasn't a 'real' place, it's a zone of the collective unconscious like Tartarus or the TV World in Persona.
When you fought, it wasn't in a discrete place. In the Pork City tower, you fought in an outside area despite 'physically' being on the 1-13th floor of an office building. Because of this, I'd suggest one of those things where whatever you describe (within reason) is nearby, so Psychokinesis runs on improv and won't ever be completely useless. But I'm getting ahead of myself.
The game also featured some of it's abuses.
Noise fed on people's energy and good vibes, heavy feeding could make people commit suicide. Noise concentration in an area also made your cell connection worse.
You could also affect public opinion, wearing clothes and pins of a brand made that brand more popular. Doing this with the O-Pin caused everyone to fall under its control.

The brands all represented the zodiac myth, including Gatito as the cat that was left out.
Brands would be at odds with each other philosophically according to the zodiac relations. Mus Rattus is understated, Pegaso is flashy and expensive, Hip Snake is older styles. None of them like each other.
All together, this put an emphasis on the number 13.
The top three brands in an area get a boost for being on top, but the 13th gets a hefty penalty.

>>47757539
>Something that brings in the musical references of TWEWY (Rhythm, Flow) along with the themes of co-understanding and realization.

I like this idea. The problem is, how deep do we go into musical wording before we get incomprehensible mess? I'll give you a few examples:
Strength = Bass
The logic behind it is that when someone thinks of a bass-heavy song, it's almost like it's pounding your eardrums.

Magic = Treble
For similar reasons, magic functions as the treble in a song. Magic can be insanely fast paced and skitters and jumps and can be seemingly everywhere at once.

Durability = Boldness
Because the most bold songs will remain in your head even after you've heard hundreds of other songs, because it caught your attention. In the same way, a durable fighter, someone who can take hits and keep going, is going to remain standing even after the noise try to destroy them. Or something. It's like 4 am here and I'm going to bed after I post this.

Dexterity = Flow
Because you flow with the music, much like you flow across the battlefield.

New thought - Trance
Trance is that thing where you really fall into the groove of the music. It' effectively the sync power you have. A higher trance makes you able to use your ultimate technique faster or gives you a damage boost or something as you lose your conscious focus and let yourself unconsciously destroy the battlefield.
Trance should slowly build as the fight goes on. It should function as a reward for doing good things in combat that lets you gain bonuses that stack. Obviously it falls if you do bad things in combat, so the ability to build it up faster can be invaluable in a tough fight.

Because each soul is a song unsung. Songs that lose these aspects are no longer songs, they are merely... Noise.

I hope this makes sense when I wake up.

>>47757841
We could combine both the shared HP pool and the "out of tune" system. Individual characters have their own synchro stats that, if dropped, essentially remove them from that battle unless they can regain it or severely limit them (such as to autofailing all rolls but still existing in the battle), but the party only loses can only occur when the communal HP drops to 0. Maybe HP should be able to be lowered and pins/etc. switched out only at certain safe zones, which limits exploitation.

Perhaps only your partner(s) can get you back into sync and heal you up as >>47757984 suggested.

So currently some of the problems we're running into is:
How HP will work, either pooled or individual, and what this entails.
Whether individual character have stats or the power is all in the pins/equipment
The terminology for stats, invariable having to do with the musical theme
What effect trends and clothing brands have on the players.
How the light puck should work.

Have I missed anything?

I also want to add another question:

How should the entry fee work? Should it be something just regulated to the story, or should it be integrated into gameplay?
Reminder that Neku and Rhyme's amnesia were exceptions and not the rule when it came to the fees, most players know what the reapers game is and what they lost to enter it.

>>47758036
I think you need them to be universal enough to be understood intuitively by someone with no musical awareness. Bass and Trebble may be a bit too deep of a cut, and Trance I think doesn't differ heavily enough from the concept of Flow.

That's mostly my opinion though.

What I should mention is that I don't personally think that Psych power should be divided between "Strength/Melee vs Magic/Ranged".

What comes to mind is the Shockwave and Force Round psychs. One is a melee attack while the other is an energy blast, but when you use them in the game they aren't that different: you're attacking someone rapid fire until your psych depletes. As I see it, they would both be governed by Rhythm because their nature is similar.

Then you have Pyrokinesis, Psychokinesis and Thunderstorm, where you're dragging across the battlefield to channel some kind of effect. That would be governed by Flow because it's about conducting energies through space.

Most of the "drag Neku from place to place" like the Velocity psychs would be governed by Bravery, instead of Rhythm, even though it's a melee attack like Shockwave. But it's about throwing yourself headlong into your enemy instead of striking rapid fire. It's the theme that's most important.

>>47758211
the entry fee seems more like a backstory/rp element than an actual mechanic
i think the light puck should be the last thing we cover, since it seems like it would be complicated to implement, and could slow everything to a crawl if we put too much focus into it early on

>>47758306
It could be done like 13th Age's Escalation die. Each turn where something good happens for the players, you turn the die up one and it triggers certain effects based on psychs or other abilities.

>>47758211
>How should the entry fee work?
I almost want to say "Let the player choose at the beginning". After all,
>The Entry Fee represents the thing that the player most values
and values are extremely important to a PC. Make it background like >>47758306 suggested.
As for how we deal with the problems:
How stats work, though we seem to have mostly figured it out. Terminology can come later
Combat system, though again, partially
Whether characters have stats or just equipment
effect of trends
Light puck
exact Stat terminology

An idea for the HP thing; in the game you worked on both ends of a bar, with more than two players it you could start stealing from the two adjacent to you.
You could also have players pair up, or just pool with one other player at random or by seat.

>>47758211
Neku: memories (sense of self) then Shiki then all the other players
Beat: Rhyme's memories
Rhyme: REDACTED
Shiki isn't actually unattractive, just wearing a really ugly skirt.

>>47758357
I totally understand that the entry fee seems more of a rp element, but I can't help thinking it'd be pretty cool to have the players come up with their preferred character, only to be told that there's a catch.

Well, its just an option.

>>47758403
I think that the entry fee should be covered at least somewhat mechanically. For example, perhaps revealing the truth of your entry fee is necessary achieve higher levels of group sync, but it also gives the other player(s) some sort of mechanical advantage against you if you two ever go head to head or something of the sort.

>>47756247
OK. So brands can be seen as a race analogue: we've got some pre made ones for the GM to mix and match, but if someone wants to homebrew a brand up, nothing's stopping them.

>>47758646
Pretty much. A Brand basically needs the following:

>Name and Symbology
TWEWY used the zodiac but Brands could really follow any unified field of shared imagery, like Musical Styles or Tarot Arcana.

>Style
What the Brand generally looks like. Is it haut couture or a street-level movement? What kind of people wear it? What kind of places would you see it?

>Psych Domain
The overall style of its psychs. Are they in your face melee attacks? Healing support abilities? Rapid use or slow cooldown? What are the rules?

>Effect Domain
What kind of personal affects does the Brand grant its wearer? More attack power? More HP? More defense?

It shouldn't be too terribly hard I imagine.

>>47757984
>>47758124
>>47758599

So this brings up another issue, twewy revolved around trust, which was exemplified through pairs, we should come to an agreement whether we modify the mechanics to a more party themed version of trust like
>>47756887
or still keep the pairs and create a sort of individual syncro ratings between them.

Actually, writing that out, it's quite obvious the first option is better for this.

>>47758770
>or still keep the pairs and create a sort of individual syncro ratings between them.

That's actually a pretty decent idea; especially of syncro rates were kept mostly secret by the players, so that you could have two players with unequal trust between them.

It would be as simple as having a space on the character sheet with "Character Name" and "Sync Rating" or something next to it.

>>47758850
I think maybe we should log the sync dynamic suggestions away for now and revisit it later.

How would you determine sync points? RP? Eating ice cream like in the game?

Light Puck could determine turn order. That's the least complicated way to look at it.

Kind of blah, though.

>>47758850
>>47758770
We could do a combination of both, wherein each duo of players has their own unique sync rating with one another that then affects party dynamics. For example, if we do something like charging up the duo attacks, that would be affected by each duo's individual rates. Something like passing the puck could be similarly affected, wherein the success of passing would depend on the sync rate.

We might also choose to have expanding group attacks that depend on the sync ratio of everyone involved.

>>47758922
I'd say probably a combination of RP and characters actively assisting each other in and out of combat.

>>47758922
Other systems have tackled something like relationship ranks before. Working together well in combat and so on could award sync points. Spending time with one another outside of combat could also award them. Alternatively, we could do something such as Magical Burst, in which, following a session of RP, the players involved could roll to see whether their characters gain trust in one another. It would be a reward for good RPing as decided by the GM.

This may make it a bit easier: Ok so we have to figure out what stats we're using. We've got 2 main writeups as far as I understand:
>>47757073 (>>47758036 is an offshoot)
>>47757091 (>>47757230 is an offshoot)
setting aside the exact naming for now and just relying on the uses, Which set do we want to use?

>>47759134
i like the first, and it's offshoot

>>47759134
I put together a Strawpoll.

http://www.strawpoll.me/10476799

Naturally the specifics will be worked out but the idea is to gauge overall preference.

For the record, as the guy who wrote this >>47757073, I'm not married to those exact stats, only that they should be something along those lines. So if you have problems with any of them or think there should be more/less granularity, please speak up.

>>47759185
I'm pretty sure most of us would want stylish stat names(that being said, we'd need to explain them, which is fine). As for specifics, I suppose we're going to want to figure out what does what. IE is Rhythm just renamed STR, or does it do more? Is Flow only magic or does it include something else?
>>47759330
Got answers?

>>47759330
I personally like it, it really lets personality come through. Especially when you start putting points into a couple.

>>47759375
See this post:

>>47758260
The Stats are more about attitude and approach than they are about what you can and can't do.

Rhythm, for instance, is about direct confrontation. It can pretty easily map to Strength in a classical stat set, as it's about dealing with things head on in a controlled, directed way.

In contrast, Bravery is about being gung-ho and having the faith that you'll be able to overcome obstacles regardless of the odds. It would map to sort of a combination of Charisma and Constitution.

Now Rhythm and Bravery have some overlap, in that they like direct action. But Rhythm is controlled and measured, as its name suggests. A street fighter with lots of Rhythm would attack skillfully, hitting hard and rapidly to try and take down his opponent. On the other hand a street fighter with lots of Bravery would be like a berserker. He never holds anything back and survives because he's too gutsy to quit.

In terms of Psychs, there's some similarities are well between the two. Rhythm Psychs like direct, rapid attacks like Shockwave and Force Rounds, and so does Bravery, but Bravery charges headlong into the enemy with Velocity Crash, for instance, or charges up and unleashes a massive blast of fire or lightning instead of lots of fast ones. Something along those lines.

Or take gunplay. You could roll Rhythm to plug away at someone's center of gravity, Flow to make a diving shot out of a John Woo flick, Insight to aim and take out someone from a far, or Bravery to unload at everyone in the room.

>>47757047
Maybe use the puck as initiative? Sort of like Marvel Heroic's initiative, where the person who went picks who goes next, but the person who goes last in a round can pick themselves? I've been calling that "popcorn" initiative, like that way of passing who reads in school around.

>>47759517
I should say that I don't want it to seem like this needs to be 100% new-agey storygame stuff, just that the mechanics should fit the tone. Rhythm still maps pretty easily to Strength and Dex, Flow to a combination of Dex and Wisdom, Insight to Int and Charisma, Bravery to Constitution and Charisma, if you want to look at things that way.

Oh and if we really wanted to go completely Japanese we could just make this a hack of Tenra Bansho Zero, which actually wouldn't work too badly.

>>47759517
I don't know anything about Tenra Bansho Zero, do you think it would fit? Nonetheless I quite like the implications of the stats. Only problem I see is that someone who hyperspecializes in say, "Rhythm" can easily make it apply to everything just by brute forcing everything forever.

>>47759575
I think that the puck should apply some sort of bonus as well as selecting initiative. Perhaps, once you pick who goes next, you roll against your respective sync rates with one another (as has been suggested earlier in the thread). If successful, then you get some sort of bonus for your move. This can chain for quite a while, though if broken will start back over at 0. This provides an element of strategy as well, since you have to think carefully about to whom to pass the puck for both chaining and the next tactical move.

>>47759695
Maybe the stats could be arranged in a rock-paper-scissors sort of way, so that someone who hyper-specializes might be at a disadvantage in certain situations?

>>47759705
I like that idea, though the initiative in MHRPG includes the villains too, so I'm not sure if we should change that.

>>47759695
Well that's what rules are for. As open as the stats are to interpretation they need to have well defined limits of what they can't do, so once they're settled on we can work that out.

>>47759746
That could be applied rather simply, though. The previous player can select the next person to whom to pass the puck, but also choose whether the villains have a turn in-between.

>>47759791
But that doesnt play so nice with the synch bonuses, unless the villains could synch too to gain bonuses, so you have to juggle putting someone who has a low synch with the Noise before them, while accepting that the Noise will be picking the same kind of thing.

>>47751822
Man, I remember this being huge when I was in high school, ten years ago. Never really played it myself, though - is it any good?

>>47759753
Fair enough, We should leave the strawpoll alone for an hour or so and see what happens, though I think your system is our go to.
>>47759719
We could borrow from above. The other stat system which we probably won't be using has Attack stat is blocked by itself, so that(in this case) rhythm characters can duel each other better than they can fight Bravery character.

I'm off for tonight, should be back tomorrow morning. Good working with the thread.

>>47759841
Having the villains be able to sync would be very interesting. Random encounters could have low sync rates set between them as a stat block, with more difficult (and intelligent) enemies have higher sync rates that make them better able to chain and so forth. We could also have specific enemies that have low stats but high sync rates, meaning you have to end them before their bonus goes beyond what you can do. It makes the gameplay more strategic, and also means that you have to trust your fellow players to make good decisions.

I think that the sync ratio should be unique to player-player villain-villain interactions though, so that the sync roll is applied to the next player, regardless of how many villain turns go in-between if that makes sense.

Here's another question: How will we handle the time limit?

>>47756739
if i can get them custom designed? probably lapin angelique
i'm sure a nice, three piece suit with a tailcoat and cravat would fit the theme quite nicely

Alright, so we have our likely basis of stats. We need to figure out combat. Grid, Theater of the Mind, something else entirely. we've got choices. What are the opinions on movement and turn styles? Action points per turn, move and standard actions, whatever. Popcorn puck seems to be a contender for determining turn order, but I don't see much else.

>>47760365
It depends
Do we want it more narative with vague positioning, or more focused with a specific grid?

>>47760365
Chiming in one last time:

I'd say Theater of the Mind with abstracted distances. Specific positioning was never very important in TWEWY, as battlefields were never big enough for enemy placement to be a big deal. Plus, being able to zip around the screen at the speed of light really contributed to the feel of the action.

>>47759946
I like this idea, though it might get confusing.

>>47760365
I'm in favor of an action or stamina point system, and perhaps a vague position of sectors or what have you rather than specific grids, i.e. Player A and Enemy X are in sector 1, Y is in 2, and Z is in 4. X and Y can be hit by a pin with a range of 1, while a range of 0 would only affect X. In other words, a one dimensional rather than two dimensional map.

>>47759946
>time limit
As a setting detail. If the GM decides the players are spending too much time faffing about, they can always go "you notice your timer is starting to tick low" to get the players back on track.

So combat style would be more or less determined by the player?
Beyond the pins, i mean

It's been almost 6 years since I've played this, but it was one of my favorites, anyways I haven't seen any mention of the blank pin Mr. Hanekoma gives you in the first week, the one that enables sync moves. Any thoughts on implementing that?

>>47761317
It could be a gameplay mechanic, but used a bit more sparingly than ingame

>>47760710
I'll chime in and recommend Old School Hack as something to look for with stuff like this. They have super abstracted zones in combat, whether, close, far, or otherwise, and considering the source material, something like this wouldn't be out of the ordinary. I can't say I have too many issues with the idea you've presented either, but it might not hurt to look at OSH.

Would threads be custom tailored (forgive the pun) to the character's preferences, or would they be preset?

Here is my idea on how to do the battles:
Positioning takes cues from JTTRPGs with it being a simple 1D system, 5 or 6 spaces with each space being able to contain multiple combatants and the two sides able to share spaces; with attacks having ranges like 0-1 (the same or adjacent spaces) or 1-3 (one to three spaces away).
Each combatant has a certain amount of AP, possibly effected by their stats, this AP can be used to perform attacks, move or dodge.
Dodging can be done either as a "Sidestep" which cost 1 or move to an adjacent space for 2, however the cost of both increase by one for every dodge you've done since your last turn

Each attack has a few parameters: Damage, Range, Uses, AP cost, if/how it passes the puck, Length of the attack, (Re)Boot time, and other effects the attack may have.
Damage and AP cost should be obvious so I'll skip explaining them, and Range has already been discussed.
Uses is how many times it can be used in a battle before it need to Reboot (think of it like the ammo capacity of a gun, except the gun reloads itself)
Attack Length (needs a better name) is how many "Breaths" (named after the unit of timekeeping in music) the attack takes up, some attacks, like Shockwave or Bullet Psyches may be able to be used multiple times in one "Breath".
Each "Breath" which passes decrements the counter for Boot Times (how long it takes before you can use a Psyche) and Reboot Times (how long it takes before a Psyche can be used after all it's uses are used up) and may cause other effects to end or activate.
Finally is the Puck, if you pass it you add to the puck a number of AP depending on your Synch and pass it to whichever would be the next player, that player may use that AP instead of their own for performing attacks, however once you pass you lose access to that AP until it comes back to you.

>>47762905
I feel something less Gridlocked fits TWEWY way better. You move super fast around the arena, and even the melee attacks have a pretty good reach. I like the idea of loose "zones" like suggested above.

>>47762905

An example may make that whole mess make more sense, a Shockwave pin:
>Damage: 10 per shot
>Range: 0-1
>Uses: 6
>AP Cost: 1 per shot
>Boot Time: 0 Breaths (so you can use it at the start of the battle)
>Reboot Time: 3 Breaths
>Length: 3 shots per Breath
>Puck Pass: 6 attacks on the same target

Lets say you have 6 AP, you can attack six times, pushing the Pin into Reboot, do 60 damage, cause two Breaths to pass and Pass the Puck. Lets say that puts 8 AP on it and your partner also has a copy of the pin (and can use it), they can spend 6 of that AP to do the same as you, which passes the puck with that 2 AP and however much they would add to the next player, your copy only needs one more Breath before it cn be used again AND they still have all their AP which they can spend on their other Pins.

>>47763053
The idea of the puck passing AP is interesting, but i think i prefer the idea of the puck being something you can lose, like with the Popcorn Initiative thing up there.

>>47763158
I was thinking of having it work where if you don't pass the puck with your attacks it gets passed without any AP on it, and/or if a player gets hit all AP on the Puck is removed.
>>47763026
Eh, I feel that positioning is still kinda important, especially with things like Vortex Saber (the attack where Neku does a spin hitting everything around him), Nexus Ray (the huge fuck-off laser), as well as Joshua's switching attack and what happens if you complete a long enough air combo with him.
But I do see where you are coming from.

I want to say that something like what >>47763053 said might work best. It's clear that a full grid system is a no, and a 1d "sector" system makes it easier to distingush pins from one another via unique traits. I don't think breaths is a good mechanic though, it just feels like unnecessary bookkeeping. If we use AP I suggest instead making boot times be in AP spent. Thus the stat-block for Shockwave might read more like
>Damage: 10 per shot
>Range: 0-1
>Uses: 6
>AP Cost: 1 per shot
>Boot Time: 0 AP
>Reboot Time: 9 AP
>Puck Pass: 6 attacks on the same target
So that way there's a bit less clutter. Movement itself seems fine(in theory) to me, and the effects of Velocity pins should probably include movement. as for
>Nexus Ray (the huge fuck-off laser)
I'd give it a high AP cost, much lower than normal accuracy and possibly make it interruptible. But it would hit everything in the chosen direction from you.
Additionally, is anybody logging anything or should I begin doing it?

>>47759871
Apparently it still has a pretty good following.

Besides that, I liked the game. It was fun and heavily stylized in a way that I haven't seen done since. I just wish it had a larger online following. I have a hole in my heart that only fanart can fix.

>>47759946
>>47760710

The enemies having sync ratios with each other was sort of explored in twewy proper.

Lollipop and pinkie (I forget their real names) had a light puck during their boss fight. I really liked that little detail because it humanized the reapers, solidified that they have relationships warranting a high level of trust too.

>>47764471
Yeah, when you fight 'human' reapers they use PC mechanics.
Noise form reapers use noise mechanics.

(Koki Kariya and Uzuki Yashiro) even use discernible pins when you fight them.

>>47762767
We should probably have a set of RAW threads, then a section about making a few sets specially for your PCs.

>>47764676
They even have a Blank Pin. That really was one of the best fights.

>>47763906
I think you should log, I don't know how.

In addition, how would AP work? Is it a round based system? Could you hold it from one round to use in the next, so you can use those huge AP cost pins? Would the combo system work like in the game, where you get a massive hit from a puck pass with a high sync multiplier? Would that unfairly favour single huge attacks too much?

>>47764471
Dude, that's because the reapers are people who have transformed or angels.

Also, thinking back, didn't lollipop and pinky somewhat resemble Shiki and Neku? Imagine if they were actually them from a different plane but chose to become reapers instead of Neku fighting on. Deep.

>>47764761
>reapers are people who have transformed
I only now realize what kind of doors this opens session wise, allowing for players who lose their partner to keep on playing, pvp, etc.

We also haven't talked about how exactly we'd go about upgrading equipment. Do we stay close to the game and divvy out exp. equally to all pins equipped like Pokemon, or treat them like skills where you pick and choose which gets stronger?

>>47764915
I like the "Treat them like skills" approach myself. You don't get a whole new wardrobe, you go get a cool new hat.

>>47763906
>>47763053
Boot/reboot times costing AP would mean that, instead of being able to stall for time using your weaker spins while waiting for greater ones to charge up as it the case in the DS game, you would have to spend all of your AP on rebooting pins.

By contrast, keeping track of rounds with tokens or some such sounds easy.

>>47764471
Exactly. In this way, the players' light puck chain bonuses can be balanced against enemies' bonuses as well. I imagine that for a successful puck pass you would require both parties to parties to roll successfully on their sync rates with one another.

Speaking of which, I suggest that we have a roll under system to make predicting success easy.

>>47764761
I would treat the pins like skills. You can choose which ones to upgrade and at junctions, into which pin they evolve (since some of them have different evolutions depending on the time of xp they receive).

Regarding logging, I can arrange a google doc for us. Which was the winning skill set?

>>47764761
How about AP works like this: at the beginning of their turn, each person refills AP(lets assume 6 for now). At the end of your turn, if you have a strong pin you want to use but don't have enough AP, you can declare (Held) use of the pin and go into the negatives. The pin is now held. You may use the pin during your next turn, costing the base AP minus AP spent during declaration. Held pins must be used before any other actions. thus
>Pin:Anguis
>Psych:Nexus Ray(Fuck-off laser)
>Damage: 999
>Range:0-5
>Uses:1
>AP Cost:12
>Boot Time: 0 AP
>Reboot Time: NO
>Puck Pass: Hit an enemy
Would be
>Start Turn(net 6 ap)
>Declare Anguis hold
>AP is now (net -6)
>Next turn regenerates AP(net 0)
>AP is now 0, anguis may be fired
or it might be
>Turn start(net 6)
>spend 2 ap doing whatever(net 4)
>Declare anguis(-8)
>Next turn(net -2)
>Turn ends from no AP
>Turn 3 (net AP 4)
>Anguis may now fire.
Alternately, APs refresh AFTER your turn, such that you have fewer moves based off of how many evasive actions you took "Before" your turn rather than gauging how many to spend dodging "after" your turn. In essence, these refresh points mean that everyone can be considered to be going either first or last in "Their" round system. Pin holding means you can be interrupted, which typically consumes a use as normal, but the AP you would have used during your next turn is not consumed, since you were interrupted. Interrupting the first anguis example would lead to turn 2 with full AP and an unhappy player.
What do you think?
>>47764915
>>47765036
Buy them with XP? That LA outfit you want might cost quite a few Yen, but that pin? 10 XP. Or the threads could cost xp too.
>>47765346
I meant AP spent as in "This pin will reboot after x AP is spent doing things" not "rebooting the pin costs x AP". Both of our shockwaves are identical, requiring 9 firings of itself to reboot. Assuming we measure it in how many shots of itself it would take.
>>47765461
We voted on quad stat
>>47757073

>>47765518
Neat, I'll set up the google doc momentarily.

I like the idea of held pins as well. We could also choose for AP to refresh for everyone at the same time, perhaps after a complete cycle of the puck (i.e. once everyone has gone once), so that both dodges and one's own actions would be equally valid depending on one's turn order during that round. I'm in favour of everything costing xp/yen/whatever we wish to call it, which would also lead to an interesting dilemma, for the players, regarding consumables.

Also, thank you for clarifying the "pin will reboot after x AP is spent doing things." I like that, though I must admit ask how that would work with the holding pins system?

What sorts of things could interrupt a held pin? For example, would only a successful hit/stagger interrupt? Or would performing an evasive manouevre also interrupt?

Perhaps the light puck chain bonus could be in the form of additional AP granted when you receive the puck, which increases +1 with each successful pass beyond the first.

I got a question, would brand types change depending on the location of the game? Shibuya was one of the smaller UGs, so how crazy would the options increase if the game took place in a larger metropolitan area like LA or Paris.

Would the branding be limited to just brands within Shibuya's UG or can these brands serve as templates for other brands in other cities? How would the pins change, would they universal or dependant on the area they are situated?

I know that's more than just one question but thinking about this is give me a massive GM boner.

>>47765947
We talked about that a little bit.

Upthread someone recommended that the players make a brand as sort of a custom race.

>>47765741
>AP to refresh for everyone at the same time
Also possible. With AP refresh:
End of turn probably means a more aggressive game. You know that you'll be able to go all out with your pins, since after your turn it goes to max AP again. Beginning of turn means it's reliably defensive. What if you need to take a dodge action against an opponent's attack? Your refresh timing means a less reliable game. all three are valid.
>consumables
The only consumables I remember were foodstuffs. They increased stats, primarily Max HP.
>how that would work with the holding pins system?
Reboot as normal if the move were completed. If the move is interrupted, only the AP spent already is lost. If we pretend that each AP is 1 second, a round 6 seconds(hiliariously long, but bear with me), a 3 AP move that is held from seconds 6-8 still only takes 3 seconds, while if it's interrupted between seconds 6 and 7 it still only took 1 second.
>What sorts of things could interrupt a held pin?
I would think that by default any connected attack or evasive maneuver. I would question whether or not you can even make evasive maneuvers, since most Psychs you have to commit to until they're done. However, that would clearly be variable off of what psych. For instance, Psychokinesis probably can't be interrupted, and Velocity might be capable of making a cheap evasive maneuver. Remember that holding pins right now assumes you don't have enough AP left to use them fully.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/15kJXvBVinsbst0tMWmzwaUj5ddk0hotd3nifw3Hs720/edit?usp=sharing

Here's the google doc. I'm still logging things and everything in there is tentative at the moment, so feel free to add/change/comment on anything. It's currently set so that anyone can edit, though once we get past the initial stages that will likely change.

>>47765947
>would brand types change
Depends on what you want. Functionally speaking, what matters is having the brand pins and fashion sets. Lapin Angelique has their european-royaltyish Gothic Lolita fashion, which in LA could easily be renamed into "Yamato Nadeshiko", that one popular shop in Little Tokyo that sells Japanese Clothing. So in LA, the Lass strategy might end up with Kimono, those wooden sandals(sorry, I know nothing about Japan) and a parasol with Crisis instead of the lacy stuff from Shibuya or perhaps in Paris it's a cosplay shop. Pins are probably all the same, but probably named/designed different. Honestly I'd be surprised if any of these brands were world-popular, more likely that certain fashions are just more popular in certain places. I wouldn't think there would be more brands in an area though, since there are only so many different types of fashion you can have before an area gets oversaturated with similar styles. Naturally, Yamato Nadeshiko above probably doesn't do quite as well in Japan in terms of novelty. Part of the mechanical issues of custom brand is "What happens when someone builds the ultimate brand" and "what niche can they fill that isn't already filled".

>>47766323
You should be encouraging them to reflavor the existing brands, or to go with a broad theme. Nothing specific enough to truly minmax like that.

The only benefit they'll be getting from it is a brand that matches their build, and (personally) a slight brave boost when wearing their own brand.

>>47766306
In regards to AP, should it be based on a stat that we currently have, like Flow? In addition, should we have a cap on uses in a round similar to the combo system in TWEWY?

What I mean is like, have a shockwave pin. It has 9 uses at 12 damage with a maximum chain/combo/uses per round of 3, regardless of the AP you have left. That means you can hit only 3 times this round.

Compare that to stellar flurry, with 18 uses, but only deals 6 damage, which is half of the shockwave pin's damage. If the stellar flurry has 9 uses per round, it would be better for a character with higher AP, but a character with low AP would rather the shockwave because it has more damage for less AP, even if it has less damage potential overall. I believe doing this would solve the question of having an AP cap or not, as once you've made your attacks but still have a bunch of AP left over, you can only really move around or reserve it for dodging.

Oh god so much has been done in the time I've been gone.

I wanted a TWEWY system so much, and I've got a couple things to say.

First off, UG differences. This presents a whole lot of opportunities. For example, the two-player partner system could be unique to Shibuya, and other UGs have generic groups of any number, which accounts for TTRPG parties. In addition, the time spent in the game and the amount of missions, not to mention the time for each mission, could very wildly. Imagine a country where the whole place is one big UG, games are a year long, and there's a mission every week instead of every day. Not to mention reaper roles could differ from the usual Support-Harrier-Officer gig we got in the game. Game masters could rotate out in a single game. Harriers could attack players directly rather than using noise. The possibilities there are endless, so having a section in the GM guide about designing your UG would be useful. At least, that's what I think.


About brands, reflavoring brands, and custom brands. I think it's a great idea to present the original 13 brands mechanically in the system but to allow people to create their own brands. But honestly it's not a priority and we should get other, more important stuff down first.

Speaking of which, what about stuff like scanning and imprinting using player pins?

>>47768863
I imagine scanning people would just work like reading a book or something. Valuable information would be mentioned as having a different wavelength or something. Imprinting would have something to do with overhearing important phrases and words, then applying them to situations. It'd be GM discretion.

Alright so I did a lot of thinking about this over night and this morning, and here are some thoughts:

>System
We still haven't settled on a resolution mechanic yet, which is kind of a big deal because it impacts every aspect of the game.

Since TWEWY is a Japanese game, I think it's fitting to use something inspired by a Japanese tabletop game, Tenra Bansho Zero.

TBZ uses a dice pool system, which I'm in favor of in general because it usually involves less fiddly math. No +1, +2, +5s or whatever, just add or subtract dice from the pool.

TBZ uses what you could call a variable success system. To do a thing you roll a dice pool equal to an Attribute (Like Senses, Body or Knowledge) and your goal is roll under the rank of a Skill, like Marksmanship. So you can improve an ability in two ways: by raising the Attribute, which increases the size of your dice pool, or by raising the Skill, which increases your range of success.

My suggestion would be to take this and reverse it. The reason being that there's already sort of a general consensus that your core Stats shouldn't change that much, whereas your Skills and Psychs are what get improved as you become more powerful. So if Stats remain largely static, only occasionally increasing, then you rarely have to think about adjusting your success threshhold, just how many dice you need to roll. I think that sits better with a lot of people.

So in summation:

>Suggested Resolution System 1
>Dice pool
>Dice = Skill or Psych Level
>Success = Roll under Stat

We can fiddle around with the details later but that's the general idea.

TBZ, as with most Japanese games uses d6s, which I'm fine with but personally I like d10s.

>Question
I forget: what's the maximum number of Pins a player can have in their deck? Was it 6 or 7?

>Other Thoughts and Ideas

I was also kind of thinking about not limiting Threads just to Bravery. In TWEWY that's primarily a gating mechanic to prevent you from wearing the best clothes early on and to keep Neku from wearing women's clothing at the start.

What if instead Clothing is gated by all four Stats, depending on what kind of clothing it is?

Rhythm
>Street clothes, hip-hop fashions, possibly punk styles too

Flow
>Relax styles mixed with hipster flair

Insight
>Sophisticated, high society get-ups. Lots of suits and dresses and stuff

Bravery
>Bold, avant garde, high fashion

That way a character with low Bravery isn't forced to wear inferior Threads because they preferred to build their Insight or Flow.


I was also thinking about time limits. One way to do it would be for each day to consist of a number of Rounds, wherein each Player gets a turn to act. They need to accomplish a certain goal by the time their Rounds are exhausted to proceed to the next day, but Rounds are also consumed by things like Shopping or character interactions, so they need to be balanced out.

Since Shopping is a major part of the game, I'm going to look into Red Markets, which is an "economic horror" game about making money in a zombie apocalypse. That way buying new Threads, Food and Psychs can be an actual game mechanic.

>>47756607
I'm late to the party, but the less stats the better.

>>47769464
Six. Also, I like that idea of different threads being gated by different stats.Lapin Angelique might need Bravery and Insight, while Tigre Punks just needs Rhythm, and Joshua's Feather needs all four because it's special.

Alright so I put this together. Gentlemen I give you the Psychlopedia:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1yjonEzY_gVzJm5FyYksoDnx1otVEBpjAA8K1Ozw3eZU/edit

Let me know if I messed up the edit/view settings, as I've been known to do that before.

>>47769357
I will second TBZ, it has a great base mechanic.

>>47752755

If a game were done based on this universe I'd honestly like to see more of a general Reaper's Game. Imagine a Game set on the streets of New York City or London? Paris or Hong Kong? Just imagining what might stay the same and what's likely to change across countries and cultures, along with each city having its own landmarks and whatnot. Seems like some potentially fun design space to explore as far as coming up with missions.

>>47770486
We definitely want to have it be universal. Each city would have its own unique subcultures and styles and its own atmosphere, plus its own layout to operate in. It's also an excuse for why the rules of the game are changed to accommodate parties instead of just duos.

>>47770191
Did a ton of work to this. Added about four pages of Psychs. Looking good so far I think.

Good morning everyone!

Just as a general note, anyone is free to edit the TWEWY TTRPG doc. Drop your ideas and suggestions in the appropriate category.

>>47770191
Excellent. I'll drop a link into the other doc.

>>47769464
>>47770117
so i'm guessing brands like mus rattus and natural puppy would have pretty low requirements?

>>47771592
Actually I'd imagine that every Brand would have some low and some high requirement clothing, since each Brand resonates with at least one of your Stats.

>>47771592
Yeah, Mus Rattus is entry-level everything, making it slightly better than the starting unbranded stuff, but not really by much.

I'd argue that NP is more specialised in rounds, and their gear should reflect that in the TRPG.

Hi! Afternoon has come, I'm drunk, and we have an important question for you.
http://www.strawpoll.me/10483790
Make your opinions known!
>>47771767
Mus rattus could be far better though, since it's affected by trends.

>>47771930
I feel that we should have an all-rounder brand that does everything evenly. Mus Rattus is good for that. The idea behind them is appealing to the masses, meaning they tend to have weaker stuff, but it has a decent spread of all stats as opposed to other brands which focus on one type of skill/style/whatever.

Want to get over to the guy over there and then stab him, but don't have the AP? MR has a basic teleport (insight) and a couple decent choices for hitting, like shockwave (rhythm) or lance lunge (bravery) and can even heal if you need to. It's not as strong, but it has more options.

>>47772143
I think that's what MR does in game anyway. I meant them being far better than unbranded, because of trends. MR at the top spot is probably better than an unbranded whatever. Of course, MR at low... wouldn't actually be affected by a ton. If their stuff is reliably low powered but versatile, it's great for people who don't want to keep track of trends.
Also for that strawpoll, I tried picking easy to acquire rulebooks for those examples. Exception being TBZ, since that system I have not seen elsewhere.

>>47772143
Oh, absolutely. Having some Brands be generalized whereas others are highly specialized is definitely the way to go. I was actually thinking more of Threads instead of Psychs, but you're on the right track.

In other news I think I've filled out the Psychlopedia. Psychs are mostly balanced, though they may be a bit heavy on Insight and light on Flow, but that's because in TWEWY there are a bunch of Psychs that I'd classify as Flow which have a million variations, like Psychokinesis and Pyrokinesis, whereas a lot of the Insight Psychs are one-offs.Still, it's far from a finished product and balancing is still key.

>>47772232
If I can expound upon why TBZ is a good system to use for this:

>Game Feel
Dice pool systems, to me, flow better than systems like GURPS. Bonuses and penalties can be exacted more smoothly to represent the changing tides of battle just by adding or subtracting dice from your pool. This is well suited to the kind of game TWEWY is.

>One roll handles everything
There's no need for damage rolls with a dice pool system most of the time. You can extrapolate damage from the number of successes, and if you're doing contested rolls, the math of Attack Successes vs Defense Successes is real clear cut. Moreover, there's a lot of versatility to the output that you can interpret in different ways, like using the number of successes in a rapid fire attack to signify the number of rounds fired or enemies hit.

>>47772417
I have a copy of the rulebook, we should probably get a pdf out so people can familiarize themselves with the base mechanics and start changing and adapting them.

>>47772417
So just to be clear on TBZ dice pools and how they work, because I've never heard of it before, is it that you have your dice pool (stat+modifier) and you roll that many d6? Is it resolved like L5R?

Can you explain it for me please?

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>>47772613

>>47772613
For our purposes, you have a Dice Pool equal to your Skill, like Fighting or Stealth, or your Psych, like Psychokinesis or Apport. TBZ uses d6s, since Japanese games rarely use anything but, but we can use some other die to give us a greater range of numbers. Let's assume d6s though.

You roll your dice, and any die that rolls under the Stat you're using is a success.

So if you want to use Shockwave, that's a Rhythm Psych. Let's say your Shockwave Psych is Level 8, and your Rhythm score is 5. You roll 8 d6s, and any dice that below a 5 are successes. More successes equals more better.

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>>47772675

>>47772675
That's easy to understand.

>>47772675
TBZ's comic explanations are great. Just note that I'm suggesting a reversal of the way that TBZ does things. They use your Stat for the pool and you roll under your Skill. Here I'm suggesting you have your Skill for the pool and you roll under your Stat. That encourages you to level up your Skills and Psychs while your Stats remain more constant.

>>47772736
Equal to or below a 5* are successes.

Which would be kind of insanely powerful.

>>47772780
Does that put more emphasis on skill or stats?

Average successes is

Average Success # = Attribute x (Skill Rating ÷ 6) in base TBZ, you're saying reverse it to be Skill x (attribute ÷ 6)

Or maybe you're syaing Skill x ([attribute -1] ÷ 6)?

>>47772791
Well that depends on what kind of dice we're using. If we use d6s then 5 is basically super mighty, if we use d10s its exactly average.

>>47768136
The AP system was suggested by Stats Brigade Member. With what you suggested, do you think that we should limit pin use to a single pin per round?

I like the idea of capped uses of a given pin per round, though.

>>47768863
Yes,

>>47768944
Imprinting would an ability explicitly mentioned and discussed but would indeed be more of an RP than a mechanical element. Perhaps a certain stat could govern the effectiveness of one's imprinting skills?

>>47769357
This sounds great to me. Will we expand on different skills in that case?

>>47769464
I agree about different threads having different stat requirements. Perhaps some even have dual-requirements, or requirements where you have to meet at least one of them. I want to make hybrid stat builds as viable as minmaxes.

>>47772273
We might want to adjust the stats and what they cover, or simply add in our own pins if necessary. As far as different brands go, generalized and specialized threads/pins for both early and late game would be fun. Again, let's make as many possible viable playstyles as possible.

>>47772780
This sounds agreeable. Also, I'm a fan of d10s over d6s.

A general question to all: Have we made any decisions regarding a communal HP pool?

>>47772851
>Communal HP pool.
While we're on that, could we have multiple partners in the group?

Still limit fighting enemies to two players syncing up, and they could take turns syncing with different people?

e.g.: Player 1's turn, he sync's with player 2 and they fight a group of Noise. Player 2's turn, he's either with Player 1 or he sync's with player 3.

I dunno, probably too complicated.

>>47772851
>>47768863
Whoops, didn't finish my thought there. I certainly think that influence should play a role in the game, including meme imprinting and so on.

I'll replay TWEWY in the coming days to refresh my memory of it. As well, I need to fix up the organisation on the doc.

>>47772851
>With what you suggested, do you think that we should limit pin use to a single pin per round?

No, I think you should be able to do what you can during your turns. That's the payoff for getting more flow, it means you can do more, but you're not increasing your other stats as a trade off. Flow pins would have to be weaker per AP as a trade-off, but you get more actions to do things to balance it out.

You should be able to use any pins you have available for the turn. However, if you don't use a combo finisher on your round, you won't pass the light puck.

>Perhaps a certain stat could govern the effectiveness of one's imprinting skills?

But in the DS game, it just worked. Nobody wants to fail a day because they couldn't convince a random pleb to play reaper creeper for the seventh time that day.

>Also, I'm a fan of d10s over d6s.

The only issue I have with d10s is that they're somewhat harder to acquire than d6s.

>Have we made any decisions regarding a communal HP pool?

Nope.

>>47757727
>>47757758
>>47758124

There were some ideas being thrown around about having a duo's sync ratio being lowered until they were essencially 'knocked out' but the battle wouldn't be lost until the communal HP was depleted. But I don't know.

TBZ is being thrown around a lot, how does HP work there?

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>>47773291
Wound boxes.

You get bonuses while you have wounds in specific boxes. (You choose which box whenever you get hit)

TBZ is episodic, so assumes that you change characters after a few sessions (or a week of gametime in TWEWY maybe)

So it has a Dead box, where you can choose when your character dies, but they're very powerful for that moment.

>>47773341
You'll note that it has Vitality at the top, that's what will knock you unconcious.

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>>47773341
Vitality (HP) is where you take damage (usually the enemies damage + the amount of successes they beat you by). You can choose to take vitality damage or "wound" damage. Vitality is more exhaustion, if it goes to 0, you get knocked unconcious for the fight.

Instead of taking Vitality, you can take it on wounds, which take a long time to heal. That's stuff like scratches or broken bones.

You can choose (even at 1 vitality) to put the damage to the boxes (number of which determined by stats), but if you check the Dead box, then your vitality hits 0, you die.

Alright here's an idea that I had for handling HP. It's pretty abstract but it could be kinda cool.

Remember that when you fight Noise you're actually entering another part of the UG where the Noise live, because they have a different frequency than the rest of the UG.

As characters take damage, they start suffering Interference, which is them losing their connection with the Noise world where the battle is occurring. If a player's HP is totally depleted then they get Dropped Out and fall off the Noise's level.

Now as long as one Player is left standing when the Noise go down, then the party still wins. But if all Players end up Dropping Out, then they get kicked out into the UG unceremoniously.

Big deal, right? What did they lose?

Time.

The Reapers don't want to kill the players. They want to mess with them. They want to see them struggle against depleting resources and a cruel count down.

When an entire Party gets Dropped by Noise, they all lose a certain amount of Time off their counter. What this means exactly depends on how we measure Time, but it wouldn't be good for them.

>>47773593
So something like a traditional jrpg, where as long as one character's standing the battle's not over. Could work.

Though this doesn't answer any questions we have towards communal HP, and it opens up some questions of its own:

If we're going the duo route and your partner Drops Out, then what does that mean for you, since in TWEWY it was impossible to fight noise without your partner, as far as I remember.

How would sync ratios come in here? Would it go down if you allow your partner to Drop? Can you sacrifice some to bring them back?

What if we only have communal HP in regards to duos and then when that depletes the two of them Drop Out, and when all duos Drop the time penalty goes in effect?

>>47771930
Whatchu sipping on?

>>47773593
While it does nicely wrap up all the concerns,

Time was never a *real* concern in the game, and has been suggested as a GM guideline ('you can't do that, it'll take too long' 'you notice you should be hurrying up')

Individual HP looses a bit of the Trust thing, and makes HP Restoring psychs worse, since you can't use them during downtime to heal the other players.

>>47773593
I like this. Do you think that players should be able to heal/bring back players who have dropped out, perhaps by giving them some of their own HP? For example, let's say that your party consists of Player A with 4 HP, Player B with 7 HP, and Player C with 5 HP.

Player C is hit repeatedly and his HP is reduced to 0. This knocks him out of the battle. In TWEWY, you can't fight Noise without a partner, so the other players would have a choice of either forfeiting or giving the dropped player some of their HP. Player B gives Player C some of his HP and Player C is brought back.

Perhaps the Time penalty for a given combat depends on how many players have dropped out at the time of loss or forfeit. In some cases, if a player drops out, it might be better to cut loses and simply flee the battle wholesale.

Just as in the game, you should be able to willingly lower your HP in exchange for better drops.

>>47773832
>Though this doesn't answer any questions we have towards communal HP, and it opens up some questions of its own:

That's true; it's not meant to be an exact reproduction of the mechanic, just to be representative (the survival of each Player is dependent upon each other).

>If we're going the duo route and your partner Drops Out, then what does that mean for you, since in TWEWY it was impossible to fight noise without your partner, as far as I remember.

That's exactly correct. One way to work with this would be for Total Dropout to occur if a Party is reduced to 1 rather than 0. That way a duo gets Dropped Out when one of them falls.

Here's another idea:

Characters have individual HP. If their HP gets drained they suffer Interference, which is the result of them losing their connection to the Noise. It manifests as a weakened ability to interact with the Noise and their fellow players, but they can still contribute.

One the group HP is depleted, then Dropout occurs.

>>47774001
>Time was never a *real* concern in the game, and has been suggested as a GM guideline
True, but that's because TWEWY is a JRPG and is by nature a railroad. I think a GM and his players could have a lot of fun and excitement dealing with time as an actual in-game concern instead of a narrative instrument. But I'm not married to the idea.

>>47774008
Some nice ideas here. Maybe you could risk greater Time losses to improve your payouts, for however we figure the reward system would work.

For the record I'm as set on this Dropout System as I was on the Abstract Stats. I'm just trying to find a solution that is both elegant and interesting.

>>47774183
Sorry, I meant NOT as set. I can go either way.

>>47774116
I like the idea of Time being an actual mechanic/concern, to increase the sense of urgency. While the players in the DS game essentially passed out at the end of each mission and then reawakened for the next one, we could split that up here, so that players are free to browse shops and have RPing sessions outside of the times designated for the Composer's tasks.

I'm still in favour of a communal HP pool to go along with HP-recovery pins and the like, in whatever method we choose to implement that. Letting people choose how much and to whom to give their excess HP is a measure of trust. If the players suffer time or reward loss depending on how many times players have dropped out, then you have to carefully decide who receives HP and how you continue to divvy up.

We should also have a mechanic to force decide decisions. If players can't agree on something, then they should have to roll something, and whoever wins the roll gets their way. Of course that would only be invoked if the GM invokes it, and would probably result in a loss of trust in everyone involved.

>>47774116
>That's exactly correct. One way to work with this would be for Total Dropout to occur if a Party is reduced to 1 rather than 0. That way a duo gets Dropped Out when one of them falls.
That's exactly what I was thinking of. A group game of pairs. (Maybe with a special rule for groups with an odd number?)

>>47774323
How would that work for passing the puck?

>>47774323
Wouldn't have to be. A group of 3-5 would work just as well, there'd just be more leeway for drop-out. The point of the game is that no-one survives alone. Whether there's just two of you or ten working together, it's all the same when you get whittled down to 1 person standing alone.

>>47774356
You pair off with one other chosen player, or do you mean with the odd number?

As far as I understand it, TWEWY the video game is about having creative ideas and showing them through all the distracting noise.

You can only be truly innovative by combining your ideas with another person, both for feedback and for the chaotic union that results.

>>47774356
Could work like this:

Each round of combat, the Player with the puck chooses who he wants to pass it to next, and as long as his action, whatever it is, is successful then it moves. On the following Round, the player with the Puck does the same, but he must choose someone who didn't hold the puck in the prior round, unless that's impossible (like if there's only two Players in the fight). That way it always moves progressively, instead of just getting passed between two people forever.

If the player holding the puck fails his action, whatever it is, then the puck gets dropped.

>>47774438
That's not what I asking. How would that work if we split people up into duos?

>>47774523
At the beginning of combat, players would pick what partners they were drifting with. They would focus on whatever enemies they were up against.

Maybe they could switch it up as a group action at the end of a round.

A few strawpolls to get a sense of people's thoughts.
http://www.strawpoll.me/10485646
http://www.strawpoll.me/10485689

>>47774523
The puck doesn't need to be restrained to duos too. After all, against Kitanji, Neku passed the puck to Shiki, Joshua, and Beat.

I like the idea of the Puck working a little bit like.. the Escalation Die?

https://docs.google.com/document/d/15kJXvBVinsbst0tMWmzwaUj5ddk0hotd3nifw3Hs720/edit

I fleshed out the descriptions for each of the four main Stats. I think it's a lot clearer what the role of each is now, as well as how they characterize a Player.

So, I was going to talk about how the players pick/make a brand, and then the GM aligns the NPC's up with the remaining brands, but the game doesn't do that.

Neku: Jupiter of the Monkey
Shiki/spoiler: D+B (apparently Dangerous Buffalo (Bull))
Beat: Wild Boar
Rhyme: Mus Rattus(?)
Joshua: Dragon Couture Mythril Scale

Higashizawa: Sheep Heavenly
Minamimoto: Tigre Punks
Konishi: Natural Puppy (switch v?)
777: Lapin Angelique (switch ^?)
Kitanji: Hip Snake
Pinky: Pavo Real
Lollipop: JotM

Hanekoma: Gatito

This doubles up on JotM and leaves Pegaso out.
It's a bit spotty, Higashizawa's belt is made from D+B stuff but he's a sheep, Sho's pants are Tigre and Konishi is the tiger but her dress is Natural Puppy.

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This seems like it could be fun.
I'm gonna be having a lot of free time fairly soon, (as in, in two weeks time) so if this turns out to be a thing and you need a player, please shoot me a message.
[email protected]
I'm a huge fan of TWEWY and I have a fair bit of experience with most RPG systems.
I hope this turns out well for you! Good luck!

>>47774710
Reminder to vote, please.
http://www.strawpoll.me/10485646
http://www.strawpoll.me/10485689

>>47764237
Hm, maybe I'll shove it in my old DS and give it a go. I could use a new stupid thing to obsess over.

>>47775379
Voted, that's it for me tonight though. Tomorrow should be interesting.

>>47775444
I plan to wait to see votes tomorrow, which will give us foundation to start going more in-depth on the mechanics, such as fleshing out AP refresh, starting to build up how we handle skills, and statting pins.

Also, we could start thinking of mechanical consequences of things like the entry fee and trust.

>>47775518
I also have some interesting ideas about how Synchro and Noise can work which I'll flesh out tomorrow too.

>>47759092
Also consider Bliss Stage.

>>47777003
Never heard of it.

so if different brands have different stat requirements, which ones are for which brands?

>>47777840
That's mostly up to the GM and players. They're encouraged to makeup their own brands and part of our challenge is coming up with good rules for creating Brands.

They could choose to use the ones from the original game, or make their own. One of the nice things is that we have 4 stats and 12 main brands plus Gatito, so that sorts out rather easily.

>>47777840
If we have four stats, there are fifteen combinations. One of each, six combinations of two, four of three, and one of all of them.
This only works if we include Mithril Scale, and still precludes both unbranded and Gatito from having all stats.

>>47778055
i just meant, y'know, the ingame brands
nothing against the whole brand making thing, just trying to stir up some discussion

>>47778205
well then, the best place to start would be our mono-stat brands
which do you guys think fall into that category?
>>47778055
Just a suggestion, but we could include the ingame brands and threads for the sake of gms who want to keep to the original flavor, while also adding instructions for creating one's own brand for those who want something unique

>>47778358
I'm in agreement with including the ingame brands and threads and stating them as examples, then also giving instructions on new brands.

>>47778205
Perhaps it would be prudent to have four mono-stat brands and six dual-stat brands, with the final two (three, counting Gatito) brands being general-purpose/jack of all trades.

>>47778395
4, if you count unbranded as it's own brand
but either way, i agree

>>47778358
I think typical Early Game brands (Mus Ratus, Sheep Heavenly, etc) are mono-stat, Late Game are Dual Stat, i think, with stuff like Gatito and weird, niche brands or Aftergame being the others.

>>47778395
>>47778358
Just about all the brands are all-rounders, with price, bravery requirement, and effects all being considerations.

Name, philosophy, favored psychs and their stats according to that google doc.
Though I will say now that I'm in favor of different brands having different stats for the same psych type.

>Mus Rattus
Plain, humble.
Cheap, low bravery req.s. Lots of Puck abilities.
>the only Doomed Mobility/+ pin (Insight)
>the only Supply Boost+ pin (Bravery)
>best Splash Core (Insight)
>all Core psychs (Bravery, Rhythm, Insight), including only branded Flame Core

>D+B
Clubwear
Average price, pretty high bravery.
>fantastic Piercing Pillar pins (Insight)
>Psychokinesis D (Flow? There's no differentiation in the doc, I'd call D Bravery and T Insight)
>that's kind of it, besides an Earthquake (Bravery), a Mobility Blight (Insight), and an early Subconscious (Bravery)

>Tigre Punks
It says Punk in the name, what do you think?
Average price, middling brave. Offense offense offense. The Purple Sneaks (faster puck passing)
>only branded Velocity Attack (Bravery)
>better Vortex Saber than JotM (Rhythm)
>Peace Full is a fairly early good recovery (Flow)
>strongest Discharge (insight), one of each recover (Cure Drink is different than Healing)

>Lapin Angelique
Goth
Average price, highest non-Gatito(custom order) bravery. Best SOS gear (start with only partner health, bonuses as long as you're in critical health)
>Lolita Skull is Healing (Flow?) and cures Def and Atk break
>Kaleidoscope is the best Burst Rounds (Rhythm)
>Black Rose is the only Doomed Defense+ (Insight)
>decent Force Rounds (Rhythm), best Stellar Flurry (Rhythm), Network Spider is the best branded Thunderbolt (Flow), Spider's Silk is the best Apport T (the tap version, Insight?) in it's rarity

I went through each of the brands and looked at the most common psyches that they use, then checked against the psychlopedia. Here's what I got:
Mus Rattus: ???
Pegaso: Rhythm + Flow
Gatito: ???
D+B: Insight + Flow
Tigre Punks: Bravery
Lapin Angelique: Rhythm + Flow
Dragon Couture: Rhythm + Flow
Hip Snake: Insight
Sheep Heavenly: Flow
Jupiter of the Monkey: Bravery + Rhythm
Pavo Real: ???
Natural Puppy: Rhythm + Insight
Wild Boar: Insight + Bravery


One suggested list might be the following:
Rhythm: Mus Rattus
Flow: Sheep Heavenly
Insight: Hip Snake
Bravery: Tigre Punks
Rhythm + Flow: Dragon Couture
Rhythm + Insight: Natural Puppy
Rhythm + Bravery: Jupiter of the Monkey
Flow + Insight: D+B
Flow + Bravery: Lapin Angelique
Insight + Bravery: Wild Boar
General purpose: Pegaso, Gatito, Pavo Real

Reasoning for some of the changes:
Lapin Angelique is associated with having a high BRV cost in the actual game, so switching its affinity from Flow + Rhythm to Flow + Bravery seems solid.
Mus Rattus is one of the early game brands, so, as was mentinoed earlier in the thread, it makes sense to have it be single-stat.
Pavo Real is exclusively accessories, so it fits as a general purpose. Pegaso is also the most expensive brand if I'm remembering correctly, and thus also fits the general purpose bill.

I don't recall what the early game brand line-up was exactly; I can't remember when you get real access to Hip Snake for instance, so we might want to change that up.

>>47778358
>Just a suggestion, but we could include the ingame brands and threads for the sake of gms who want to keep to the original flavor, while also adding instructions for creating one's own brand for those who want something unique

Agreed 100%.

>>47779689
>Though I will say now that I'm in favor of different brands having different stats for the same psych type.

I didn't see this while writing my post, but I absolutely love this idea. Seeing the different flavouring for the same psych would be fantastic, especially if we ensure that, say, the pins that feature the Bravery version of Psychokinesis have some vague similar stat differences to pins that feature the Insight version of Psychokinesis. This opens up more options while still keeping each stat distinct.

Additionally, while most brands do have pins that fit all of the categories, I was looking for larger patterns i.e. the psyches that show up again and again in the same brand for the purpose of categorisation.

>>47779689
This is an awesome post and you should be proud of it. We should start working on a google doc for clothes. Call it the Thread Count.

Question: what are all the effects that Threads can have? We should start with a list of those so they can be evaluated and guidelines for new Threads can be drafted.

One more reminder to vote for anyone who has skipped the rest of the thread.
http://www.strawpoll.me/10485646
http://www.strawpoll.me/10485689
It seems like we are tied on whether to have communal or individual HP, but that there's a slight majority that prefers the group popcorn light puck pass.

>>47779883
I could see LA having a bravery set for their pins. Depending on how we do health, we could even have the suicide special (though it would be really dangerous if more than one party member had it at a time)

>>47780405
I am personally a fan of attempting to incorporate the suicide special, particularly if we have communal HP. If not, the suicide special could reduce HP to 1 rather than 0, for example.

>>47779689
>Dragon Couture
Expensive, middling bravery req.
>only branded Flame Blast (Insight)
>most Burst Rounds (Rhythm) (Lapin's is still better)
>Pyrokinesis (Flow)
>the Tap version of Psychokinesis, decidedly Insight
>EXCLUSIVE psych: Thundercloud (Flow)
Thread abilities are varied, being Joshua's brand. Contains Sun Emperor, which is part of Beat's SOS setup.

>Hip Snake
Low average price, middling bravery
>best Holy Light (insight)
Tons of exclusive and 'exclusive' psychs
>Rock Bind, better Freeze (insight)
>Ignition (Insight)
>Frostbite, Freeze with lots of damage (Insight)
That said, I'm not sure if Insight fits a retro brand.
Thread abilities increase status chances.

>Pegaso
HILARIOUSLY expensive, middle-high bravery
>best Lightning Bolt (Rhythm), best Lightning Arrester (Rhythm)
>only Turbo Gauge+ (Bravery)
>Spark (Bravery) and Splash Core (Insight), only MR otherwise has them
>Patrol Rounds (Flow), only shared with Puppy
>series of (Flow) Psychokinesis
Good all around abilities, including puck power and stat and exp boosts.

>Sheep Heavenly
Low price, middle-high bravery.
>only Aqua Barrier (Flow)
>the only branded or non-Gatito Sweeper (Flow), Black Hole (Flow), and Dark Barrier (Bravery/Flow)
>shares Teleport (Flow) with Pavo Real
>high use Healing and Cure Drink, only Cure Boost+ (Bravery)
>Handsfree Healing auto-uses your healing pins
Threads are decent low-level equipment. Good puck manipulation equipment.

>>47780439
>>47780405
There are two suicide sets, LASS and BOY.

BOY actually works fantastically on Beat, so you can double suicide.
Having an item that puts you at zero on both characters puts you at ACTUAL zero HP, making you lose upon taking any damage.

>>47780488
Back after shower.

>Mithril Scale
Wiki has nothing on their pins, they have no threads. Done.

>>47778055
I hate to be that guy, but can we also utilize real world brands depending on the location we decide to base a game under? I ask because if we're going to make up our own brands, I think we should have at least a standard set for people that just want to pick up and play a campaign rather than make up their own.

>>47780686
The standard set will be the ones from the game. Those can be easily renamed to fit a real world locale, but at least the stats will be there.

>>47780686
I mean, I would assume that the shibuya brands would be the standard for games. Those brands were already based off of existing ones if I recall, just renamed, nothing stopping another rename for a separate local.

>>47779689
Did I say MR has the best Street Jam (Bravery) in Shout! ? It does.

>>47780488
Dragon Couture is that store in the mall with collared shirts with chinese characters on them, an employee that follows you around, and a purchase minimum.

Hip Snake is vintage stuff. Mostly 70s.

Pegaso is high fashion.

Sheep Heavenly is low-end but popular and comfortable, mostly girls clothes.

>what the fuck does "Jupiter of the Monkey" mean?
>the fuck is this yuppie shit?
Says it's sporty.
Middle low expensive. Between low and mid bravery.
>best Shockwave (Rhythm), and easily THE JotM psych. Shared with MR.
>great Stellar Flurry (Rhythm), a few damage points and uses worse than the Lapin pin but faster reboot
Exclusives:
>Lance Lunge (Bravery, though it's a tap pin (usually Insight))
>Vulcan Uppercut (Rhythm)
Threads are for Neku and all target specific stats. Nothing outstanding, especially by the time you get to the store.

>Pavo Real
Literally a jewelery store.
Average-high brave, highest non-DC prices.
>best Teleport (Bravery), shares psych with Sheep Heavenly
>shares Invisibility (Flow) with MR
>highest number of Apport (Insight) pins of all brands, though it's one family
exclusives:
>Pressure Mine (Insight)
>only Turbo Gauge (Bravery), + is Pegaso though
>only branded Twister (Bravery)
>Turbo Gauge and Reboot (Bravery), + is Pegaso
>most and often best Doomed (auto blight) pins (Insight)
Threads are all accessory slot items. Some Shiki boosts and individual random abilities. Cheapest EXP Boost 2.

>Natural Puppy
Girly, but simple. Midrange clothes.
Medium brave, mid prices.
Literally the midrange brand, flavor-wise and mechanically.
>Patrol Rounds (Flow) is the only psych that isn't exclusive to NP
Exclusives:
>Energy Rounds (Rhythm) is slightly worse than Force Rounds
>Entanglement (Insight)
Mid and low level versions of just about all abilities.
A Joshua and a Shiki ability.

Character limit, Boar in next post.

>>47781530
>Natural Puppy
>Mid and low level versions of just about all abilities.

Are you forgetting their focus on rounds? They have about 6 or 7 separate pins for it.

>>47781530
>Wild Boar
Skater counterculture.
Lowish brave, mid-high price.
I'm going to say Bravery, right now before I look at anything.
>best Apport C the 'draw a circle' version that I think shouldn't be Insight
>most Explosion pins, psych shared with MR and Tigre
>Fresh Line might be the best Grave Marker (Bravery), shared with JotM
Exclusive
>best Massive Hit (Bravery) and Time Bomb (Insight), only branded of each
>Defense Blight+ (Insight), though the normal version is Pavo Real
High attack boosts. Cat Deck is the strongest non-Gatito thread.

>Gatito
Fully custom threads.
Pins are all of Cat's murals and tags.
Highest bravery requirements. Custom order only, not normally obtainable.
>pin sets are the big thing
>Darklit Planets are a full deck and practically endgame without the set bonus
Exclusives:
>Nexus Ray (Bravery), oddly Anguis is the strongest, though it's one use per fight
>Irregular Note is a weird meta thing
>Over The Top is pretty much just Turbo Reboot+
>Holy Field is an insane puck boost
>O-Parts mind controls people and is a quest.

>>47781658
That part's about their thread abilities.
Energy Rounds is the same as Force Rounds but with a slightly lower efficiency. It's focused on Rounds, but there are better Rounds pins in other brands.

>>47780336
We seem to be pretty divided on this vote. I hope that people don't lose interest due to this.

>>47780336
How would Taboo noise even work if the puck autopasses?

>>47782136
We have a few option. One such option is that only extra AP granted by the puck can actually damage Taboo Noise, so that one's normal AP could only be used for movement/evasion and so on. This means that players would have to be able to keep up the puck pass. That might be too harsh, however.

>>47782173
Well you could make it like the game, where it's not no damage from not puck, just severely diminished, so in a pinch a team could try to grind out a taboo fight

>>47782219
That works too and is a better idea, so that teams with low Trust stats could still stand a chance, if a meagre one.

I know we've discussed dice types to use, but haven't gone far into it. Personally, I prefer d10s. I feel using d6s to be a bit constricting when it comes to how the stats would lay out. I'd like to have more of an option to have a slightly rounded out character that dabbled a bit.

I feel I'm having a difficult time getting the wording right in my mind.
Closest I can come to is that I want a little more fine control on my character? A little more granularity? Is that word used correctly there?

Last mentioned, some people have concern on the availability of d10s compared to d6s. This is true, simply by how common d6s are, and would make the game playable if you're in a non-gaming household where you need to raid a few board games to get your dice, but I don't feel this reflects what the majority of people who would play the game are limited to.
Worst comes to, Walmart and Target carry Fantasy Flight products now.

I'm not saying d6s are out of the question, I just like d10s for this kind of system better.

>>47782936
Sounds like something to put to a poll to me!
http://www.strawpoll.me/10489307

>>47780539
Yeah, there is not a lot about Mithril Scale.

>>47782936
There's another advantage of d10s, which is that you can use them to do d% as well. Which brings me to an idea I had for Synchro Ratings.

Every Player has a Synchro Rating with every other Player, which is between 1 and 50. Whenever two players want to perform some kind of Synchronized action, they add together their Synchro Ratings and do a d% roll, and if they pass then the action succeeds.

>>47785091
Wouldn't that violate the "trust stats kept secret" unless that was handled by the GM? Other than that I like the idea.

Alright I put together a new Google Doc for cataloging Brands and Threads: The Thread Count.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/16Uc3YJ-yRMoDhNc90EK5Ao0WOrubO0Gnl8ixIYQOEZs/edit

Right now I'm working on compiling a list of Thread Abilities.

>>47785940
Aaaand I think I'm done with the abilities. A lot of them are going to need to be totally reworked because their mechanics are rooted in the original platform, but I think we can work something out.

I'll leave the descriptions of the Brands to people who know more about their nature and how they work, like this fine chap >>47781759

Alright so one more thing I've been thinking about:

Previously we were saying that we mostly wanted Stats (Rhythm, Flow, Insight and Bravery) to remain static while Skills and Psychs increase at a more rapid pace. Under those circumstances, the resolution system is roll d10s equal to your Skill and count successes as anything under the Stat you're using.

However, I'm not sure how well that would work alongside a system where your access to Threads are determined by your Stats, because your Stats aren't likely to increase that much, meaning that Stat gating is going to be a testy thing. If you start with a Flow of 5 and you reeeeally want a piece of clothing that requires Flow 7, how long will it take to increase your Flow by 2 points? Is it even possible?

To that end, we have two options:

>1: Switch around the mechanic
If the mechanic is roll d10s equal to your Stat, roll under your Skill, then the sky is pretty much the limit as far as Stats are concerned. Conversely it means that Skills and Psychs have a cap of around 8 or 9, but that might be okay.

What this means is that Stats will increase and change steadily as the game continues, reaching pretty high levels (and therefore rather large dice pools).

>2: Keep Thread requirements in check
In TWEWY, Bravery was a fairly linear scale: the more Bravery you have, greater the variety of clothes you have. As a result it was a linear scale, always climbing upward.

If we are using Stats as the roll-under target, then that means they cap at, say, 9 (to make it so that the best-case scenario is 80% that a given d10 will be a success), so we need to make sure that we keep Thread Requirements to a 0-9 scale.

Do these points make sense? What do we think of them?

>>47786606
We might want to go with 1 or add a game-exact bravery stat.
The way the theory is now, what stats would equipment give? Stat bonuses? Do those let you equip better stuff?

I'll be boiling down abilities into an easily adapted form in a minute.

>>47786764
I added a list of abilities to the Thread Count file:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/16Uc3YJ-yRMoDhNc90EK5Ao0WOrubO0Gnl8ixIYQOEZs/edit#

About half of the abilities affect your combat ability by adding HP, Attack Power (which would probably be a sort of damage modifier) and Defense (which would probably be some kind of damage soak).

The other half are abilities that affect the behavior of the Puck or a Player's Combos, which in particular will be an interesting challenge to add.

I also think that a scale of 0-8 is fairly reasonable for Thread Requirements. In a tabletop RPG, where you don't have a gaming platform's process to do the math for you, smaller numbers are typically better.

>>47786764
We haven't discussed skills at all, so it entirely depends on how we handle that. Increasing stats should certainly be possible though. If we want finesse on requirements, we could institute a range system, i.e. between 60 and 80 Insight your TN is "4".

>>47785940
>Abilities
Not all threads have abilities, but the best ones often do.
Abilities are secret. In order to activate an ability, you must be told about it.
This is most often done by gaining rapport with shopkeepers, but it is perfectly fine to be told by other NPCs, plot effects, or even other players.

There are two kinds of abilities: static and conditional names to be remastered later
Static abilities are active all the time. Conditional abilities are only active while the condition is met.
Conditions range easy to fulfill to harder. If the condition is having a stat requirement or being aligned with a certain brand, the condition can be fulfilled constantly. If the condition is having HP below a level, that will only take effect once your HP is below that point.

>Conditions:
SOS: While the wearer is at critical HP (30%? 20% TBD)
<Brand> Alignment or simply <Brand>: If the wearer is aligned with the named brand(s)
That might actually be it.

Abilities can also be Jinxed.
The ability is always active, but with a drawback.

>Thread abilities:
These can be stand alone, or activated by conditions.

<Stat>+ <#>: The wearer's <stat> increases by <#> while worn.
All Stats+ <#>: All the wearer's stats increase by <#> while worn.
>Puck manipulation
>A set of abilities that affect the nature of the Light Puck. This includes
Faster passing; slower passing; longer combos; shorter combos; the Puck remains in play for longer before disappearing; and increasing the starting Puck power.
No Obstacles: There is nothing else in Noise Space but you and the Noise.
More Durable Obstacles: Objects in Noise Space can be used more before they disappear.
Resist <Status>: Makes it easier to resist certain statuses.
Attack Boost: A percentile boost to your damage.
Defense Boost: A percentile boost to your defensive ability.
Power Boost: A percentile boost to both your damaging and defensive abilities.
Regeneration: You gain HP at the start of each round.

>>47786993
Null Damage <#>: Nullifies up to <#> damage each combat.

Combo stuff will have to be reworked, since that was all partner mechanics.

>>47786973
What's 'TN'?

>>47786993
We should add in combos one way or another, perhaps via some sort of increasing counter with every successful sync role.

>>47787015
TN is target number. For a TN of 4, anything from 1-4 is a success.