"That will make the ladies scream." - Joseph Hadyn
Previous thread >>66278792
An experiment in a pen-and-paper composing general, made for all the composition autists
This differs from /prod/ in that it is more focused on the actual writing of music, not the production. That is not to say /prod/'s electronic music is unwelcome, by all means, post here! But post with the intent on discussing composition. And remember, this is NOT /classical/. Any music, such as jazz, pop, rock, country, electronic etc. is acceptable
Post clyps and accompanying notation so we can give accurate feedback.
STUFF /COMP/ DOES
>the /comp/ YouTube channel
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCqUEaKts92UIstFjrz9BfcA
>the /comp/ weekly challenge
[email protected]
THEORY
>Fux's Counterpoint
http://www.opus28.co.uk/Fux_Gradus.pdf
>Orchestration (Rimsky-Korsakov)
http://www.northernsounds.com/forum/forumdisplay.php/77-Principles-of-Orchestration
>Teoria - Music Theory General Guides/Articles
https://www.teoria.com/index.php
>Arnold Schcoenberg's "Fundementals of Music Composition"
https://monoskop.org/images/d/da/Schoenberg_Arnold_Fundamentals_of_Musical_Composition_no_OCR.pdf
>Jazz harmony (from the course at Berklee)
http://davidvaldez.blogspot.com/2006/04/berklee-jazz-harmony-1-4.html
PRACTICAL APPLICATIONS
>Basic composing
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWbH1bhQZSw [Embed]
>Free Notation Software
https://musescore.org/
IMPROVISATION
>Fake books for jazz and blues soloing
https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0BzW9o5O35hQzMzA0ZmI0MWEtZGFmNi00OTQ0LWI2MjMtOWUyNzgyNmUzNzNm&usp=drive_web&ddrp=1&hl=en#
Other resources (full of lessons and books): http://pastebin.com/k3xddxwr
shit forgot title
>>66346389
shitwit
>not doing the challenge this week
>too busy working on my cello sonata
Feels good that I can say such a thing at all to be honest.
>>66346998
Good luck desu
Why is writing music so hard :(
>>66348872
Post some of your scores and we can help you out if you have problems
>>66349087
It's not even that, I want to write just a simple jazz track but I don't even know how to start it.
>>66349115
What instrument do you play?
>>66349123
Drums
It's more of a lack of knowledge in terms of song structure
>>66349143
>It's more of a lack of knowledge in terms of song structure
Do you mean what form you should apply or how you can follow up section A with Section B?
I don't want to shittalk you, but from my experience drummers lack knowledge in harmony.
>spend horse creating a relatively "album art" for music i plan to release in the future
>5000x5000
>almost 100MB
>>66349245
>spend horse
Had a good chuckle
>>66349260
i'm very tired
>>66349207
>but from my experience drummers lack knowledge in harmony
Oh you hit the nail on the head there, I've learnt the basics of reading music and so on but I don't really have anything to apply it to.
And I mean song structure in general terms, say verse chorus, that sort of thing.
Sorry if I'm coming off as a complete idiot, probably because I am at times when it comes to creativeness, but jazz just seems so complex and impenetrable.
>think you're learning and making some nice tunes.
>hear some crazy creative shit and realize you're a fucking pleb
Every time. How do get gud?
>>66349284
Do you understand how chords work in Jazz?
If you're a complete beginner I would just suggest to write out a II-V-I and look up some basic chord progressions like Rhythm Changes.
Also on a side note, a good drummer is worth a lot. I would take a good drummer over a good bass player or Saxophone player every time.
>>66349296
Post scores and we can help you out.
THE /comp/ COMPOSITION CHALLENGE #3 METERS July 8st - July 15rd
Compose a short piece (around 1 to 2 minutes) with three distinct meters in any instrumentation. Treat these time signatures as meters, rather than just throwing in a different time signature for a bar or two for phrasing purposes. Consider making your meters distinct by considering whether the time signatures you choose are duple or triple; simple, compound or complex/irregular.
BONUS CHALLENGE: Make at least one section of your piece polyrhythmic/polymetric
Post WIPs, talk about things to consider when changing meters, post pieces that have strong metric changes, post polyrhythmic pieces.
>>66349245
post
it
>>66349296
>How do get gud?
Practice. It takes at least 10 years to "get gud" at writing music. Keep doing it, keep learning more about it, keep studying the scores of the masters. Eventually you will improve.
You dont have to write "crazy creative shit" just music that you enjoy listening to. Nice tunes is fine and most people really enjoy that.
>>66349296
u get gud when get to the point you tell your gf to suck someone else off so you can work on your music
>>66350664
>muh 10,000 hours rule
>muh ira glass monologue
>Nice tunes is fine and most people really enjoy that.
you sound like you have absolutely 0 business explaining how to git gud to anyone
>>66351492
Personally, I think that if you have a very specific level/style/anything that you want to achieve, you can get there pretty darn fast with focused study and practice. Then you don't have to practice general harmony/counterpoint/form etc., you just have to beeline for the goal and take what you need along the way. Then later, you can of course expand into those areas you ignored and use them as a source of renewing inspiration and widening knowledge.
Probably, this is also more effective in today's society, where I get the impression that there's a lot more competition, and a composer needs to have a lot of other skills. The faster you get yourself up and working to aquire these other skills (business, production, networking, practical experience with musicians etc), the better, as these will be equally important in the long run. A full-time study of everything general composition would therefore leave you at a disadvantage and vulnerable when you finish and only THEN having to find out how to make money on your craft.
So yeah, if you go for a more straight forward/economic approach, it will get you up and working faster, so you can get precious work experience. And also, you don't have to endure all those years with excercises that are nothing like the music you actually want to make and you also avoid years of composing subpar quality because you only focused on harmony that first year, only to then go onto orchestration etc. which I know is how unis usually work. The quick start to composing (trademarked... just kidding).
>>66351776
>business, production, networking, practical experience with musicians etc
wew & while ur at it just make sure to study up on the custodial arts as well
>>66351822
he's right if you want to be a successful professional composer.
>>66350903
>u get gud when you tell your gf to suck someone else off so you can work on your music
fix'd
>>66351492
If you have better advice, feel free to give it.
>>66351822
not him, but being a professional composer is probably 50% running a business. all the things you quoted are essential.
reposting from last thread
a WIP for the challenge. I have the first section done, and I've sketched out grooves for the next tow but haven't completed the melody yet. Let me know how successful you think the meter changes are.
https://clyp.it/jqkoe1ee
>>66352051
Are you the guy people said makes music like a JRPG? This feels like something that could fit into one like that, no problem. I like it. Relaxing and atmospheric. A pad-like instrument like synth pads or strings could enhance this piece, as there are no legato/non-rhythmic elements in your texture. I feel that's what's lacking.
>>66352110
Don't think I'm that guy, but thanks, I'll be taking your advice.
>>66352110
That will also enable you to write more freely and interestingly for the flute. Not just using the same note values throughout.
>>66352051
>>66352110
>>66352123
Finally, I'd add another solo instrument, or trade the melody to one or two of the other instruments in the piece, for some needed contrast and variation later.
>>66346360
>"That will make the ladies scream"
Manheim Rockets are a meme
www.strawpoll.me/10720807/
decide on the day. So far, Sa is the fav.
My agenda would be
1. Modal scales as of today, incl. the modes added in later chant theory
2. Origins, introduction to gregorian chant
(2.1 introduction into mensural notation)
(2.2 introduction into solmization)
3. Modal scales in Gregorian chant
3.1 ambitus, tenor, finalis
3.2 Examples for most modes
4. chord progressions
I'm not familiar with modal jazz and the likes, so if anyone wants to make a follow up to this, feel free to!
>>66352209
Why do you do this?
>>66352282
I believe in the power of music to set hearts free from evil
>>66352282
just an offer. People were asking about modal stuff, so I thought I could provide some background infos.
We can ofc cut to the chase and skip the subsections
gonna highjack this thread for a personal /r/
Can somebody tell me which piece is played in the following Video? Its driving me crazy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-amweDhP3Lo
14:30
>>66352530
Liszt Liebestraum 3
>>66352549
god bless you
>>66352317
No, I mean, what do you get out of this?
>>66352856
I get to solidify my knowledge of the gregorian modes, which in turn willl hopefully help me improve my playing / accompanying these kinda pieces on the organ.
>>66346360
http://tobyrush.com/theorypages/index.html
yo could we include this in the sticky rather than that dog shit youtube link. I don't want to pay 30$ a month for some staff paper worksheets, nigga is a scam artist.
How do you guys know which key to use, I've heard certain modes serve certain emotions but what about key signatures?
>>66353653
key signatures all sound the same in equal temperament. Certain keys can point towards certain emotions based on the instrument you're using. For example, if you have a flute melody in C major that spans an octave and a third, C to E', it either has to be fairly high all the time, and quite brilliant, or very low, quiet and intimate. If you didn't want either of these, or wanted a middle ground, you could instead put the piece in F.
basically, you have to balance your instrumentation, writing, and key choice. If you sing a melody and transcribe it, and it's in Bb, you should consider what instruments could play it best. If you really want to use a specific instrument, try putting it in a key where it will shine in that instrument's range.
Also, some stuff is easier to play in certain keys, and again depends on the instruments
Shit like piano solos, it won't matter what key you're in outside of just how it sounds in that range, and if you want to use particular voicings.
>>66353748
Seconded.
To add further to your point: the objective frequencies also matter, because they have different characteristics. This too comes into play when choosing keys.
>>66353653
Also, it helps to know which keys are easier to play with which instrument. Lots of wind instrument players have an easier time with flat accidentals for some reason. Guitar players love keys that allow for empty strings.
Organ players don't like too many accidentals, cause that can make the pedalling a chore, just to name a few.
b
>>66355565
>>66355565
>Lots of wind instrument players have an easier time with flat accidentals for some reason
It's because most transposed instruments transpose down, like a fifth down (in F), two fifths or a major second down (in Bb), etc. Probably has something to do with physics, though A instruments exist, so I dunno.
So if you handed a F instrument to someone and told them to play a G, they'd play what someone with perfect pitch would call C. If you had them play a G major scale, they'd play a C major scale, if you give them something in the key of G they'd play in the key of C. In other words if you want such an instrument to play in C major, give them something in G major. (F instruments are called such because F is what's played when C is written.)
So something in concert C major is in (written) G major for an F instrument. Something in concert G major is in (written) D major for an F instrument, etc. Another way to put that is that, for an F instrument:
Concert C major has one sharp
Concert G major has two sharps
Concert D major has three sharps
Concert X has whatever the key of X normally has, plus one sharp (or minus one flat, a flat's basically a negative sharp).
This shift gets bigger for every fifth the instrument is transposed. Since most transposing woodwinds are F, Bb and Eb IIRC, if you write something in some benign key like D major, most of such instruments will have a key signature with three sharps, four sharps or five sharps. Not easy for any instrumentalist to read five sharps, except pianists who seem to be attuned to keys away from C in general. (Not that I, some pleb string player, know what I'm talking about, but the only A instrument I know about without googling, the A clarinet, is like something extra a full orchestra might have in case they're playing Schubert's Unfinished Symphony or something, while Bb is the standard one.)
>>66357194
I have a question, /comp/.
How do I compose an answer to a question that isn't much longer than it needs to be? I think I have a genuine problem
>>66357225
like this
>>66357225
just get dubs and say "git gud"
>>66357225
joking aside, we appreciate your detailed answers
>>66357302
Ah.
>>66357225
Well you see, first of all step 1 is to identify what the person was asking. Let's take your question as an example because it's pretty relevant right know. Identifying the question is important. There are three clauses in your post, but we need to single out the question. Take a look at the "?" also known as the question mark, or in italian, punto interrogativo. The clause BEFORE, not after (although the clause after may also be a question, but that's not always the case) is your question. In this case, it's "How do I compose an answer to a question that isn't much longer than it needs to be?" So we went to focus only on this question and not answer anything else that is irrelevant. For instance, I could fluff up my answer by address your other two clauses "You do have a question. You might have a genuine problem" but you can avoid them entirely. Avoid putting the question into different contexts unnecessarily. For instance, I could also answer
How do I compose an answer to a question that isn't much longer than it needs to be in an exam situation? Because my answer to that (figure out how many answers a question is worth, and dedicate a specific amount of lines to answered the question based on that) might not be relevant.
>>66357322
Well fuck
![10518131_1468255180157269_82880_n[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/xmLzoht.jpg "10518131_1468255180157269_82880_n[1].jpg")
>>66357322
How's the compilation of the variation challenge coming along, btw?
When you lot load up musescore to try writing something, what do you do?
Just analyzing my habits to go straight away into a piano 4/4 in Cmaj
>>66357879
I usually start with an idea in my head, or start by improvising on a MIDI controller/keyboard instrument.
I always try to imagine a melody in my head before committing anything to the page. I usually start with a melody unless I'm writing electronic or game music where I usually start with a tempo or percussion part and a chord progression.
Bumpů
>>66357879
expanding on what >>66357936 said,
I usually find that if you get to the blank sheet music (analog or digital) before you have an idea of what you want to write, that blank sheet music is going to remain blank for a very long time.
Actually, the same can be said of a blank canvas, a blank college thesis, a blank character creation screen, etc.
I've started on writing the materials for the stream on Modes, vote on a date for the stream. if you want it by tomorrow, I'll have to skip some subsections.
www.strawpoll.me/10720807/
What do I get out of it, I was asked
> consolidate my own knowledge
> test features on my current notation software
> learn the english specific vocabulary
>>66359979
good on you anon. modes are based, thanks for your time
>>66359979
Honestly just take your time with it, if you rush stuff you'll miss certain things out (like the double sharp chord and the inversion on lesson 2)
bump with a short nightly doodle
https://clyp.it/tc0kdpzk
>wrote 6 measures of an intro to a cello sonata, currently stuck
>what I've written is tonal, but seems to follow its own set of rules more stringently
>don't actually know what those rules are, so wrote the piano part by trial and error, trying a haphazardly-chosen sonority and tossing it if it doesn't fit
This is a problem I have a lot, actually.
>a scale called 'lydian b3' can be derived from original idea / first two measures
>applies in varying degrees to other four measures, but not stringently and there's some disobedience to the scale I can't explain away in my wily music theory ways
>look at lydian b3 scale, decide on a whim to circle 'most important' notes
>originally came up with first two measures by improvising on what someone here suggested many threads ago, "use m2s and m6s"
>they're scale degrees 2 through 5 of the scale, B C D# E
>notated chromatically, (0,1,4,5)
>glance at the progression of sonorities I came up with by trial and error in the piano part in measure 5 and 6
>EBE (EMaj no third), AEb (Adim no third), then parallel octaves CC and BB
>highest voice is going E, Eb, C, B
>notated chromatically, (5,4,1,0)
>mfw
Sorry to write my fucking master's thesis here, didn't know how to say this more compactly.
>>66360763
post sheet music.
>>66360763
sounds very very very complicated
post clyp pls
>>66360763
m8 if it sounds good to you, thats the only "rules" you need to follow. Its good to do a little bit of analysis as you go, but dont get too caught up in it. It doesn't have to make sense theoretically as long as you feel it sounds correct.
is there anything glaringly wrong with this?
finally got around to attempting something remotely jazzy
>>66361203
except for the thirds in the low bass, no. the lower the notes, the larger should the intervals be.
![latest[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/h8xZ5zP.jpg "latest[1].jpg")
>>66361264
>>larger should the intervals be
>>66361203
My handspan is only a ninth, so I fucking hate all these niggers who write 13 notes wide chords.
>>66361383
yoda is best composition teacher
"A composer must have the deepest commitment, the most serious mind. This one a long time have I watched. All his life has he looked away… to the future, to the horizon. Never his mind on where he was. Hmm? What he was doing. Hmph. Adventure. Heh. Excitement. Heh. A composer craves not these things.”
>>66361466
its bad form to go over an octave span in each hand imo. Not everyone is Rachmaninoff
>>66361597
>>66361466
Sorry, beginner oversight
>>66361597
Thank you. inb4 weeb, but my heart was torn when I realized I couldn't play my favorite piano piece. It starts like this and only gets worse.
>>66360802
Here. Details kind of inconsistently written in because it's transferred from a physical notebook.
>>66360810
Unfortunately I've resolved to never let the midi touch this with its dirty hands.
Could record the cello, though, the (newly edited) piano part is pretty simple, and easy to imagine once you know that silently holding a note on a piano causes a sort of reverb whenever notes of the same overtones are pressed. Unfortunately that effect isn't in digital pianos for obvious reasons, so I can't record that.
It's actually fairly simple, it's just that my specialty is looking far, far too deeply into music, and explaining things succinctly is not exactly my forte
>>66360897
That's true, and I'm writing the cello part almost solely by ear with my cello in hand. But there are a few things that sound like they fit into this piece, and then there are many things that don't sound like they fit at all (like, I dunno, uh, Shave and a Haircut? Beethoven-style over-and-over tonics at the end? The melody of Dvorak's 9th second movement?), and among those things is everything I've learned about traditional harmony and melody. In this case I can't just write an entire movement by slow trial and error to discern what pitch should go next, that would end up sounding disorderly and unfocused.
Like, what I've written actually falls pretty easily into a straightforward sentence structure, 2 measures of something, 2 measures of the same thing changed/transposed, and 4 measures (well, here it's incomplete) where that thing is cut to pieces and one of those pieces, especially the first half of the original thing, is developed further. So I can experiment and write by ear pretty easily in the confines of that comfy structure. But now that I'm leaving it, especially on such a contrasting note (those harmonics), I can't just trial and error my way through this uncharted ground.
>>66362717
>dat clef.
Ugh, the line counting begins.
>>66349284
Bad voicings mainly. As the other anons pointed out, your have minor thirds too low, and your spans are too long. You actually don't need to change most of your chords, you just need to move stuff into the right hand (thumb holds down chord tone, other fingers play melody). In the second chord, you have a minor 9th between the E and F, which is no bueno. Same interval pops up in your 4th chord. Also you chord progression is kind of not happening. G-7 E-7b5 C7 E-7b5 doesn't really want to go anywhere. For these 4 bars and your melody, I might suggest something really simple like G-7 E-7b5 A-7 D7 G-7 C7 Fmaj7 Fmaj7. Kind of lame, but more effective.
Your voice leading is also not good, you should aim for more smoothness. This is hard when you want to play the roots of your chords, but is possible. I've shown here how I'd do it.
The melodic rhythm in beat 4 of bars 1 and 4 can just be spelt with quarter notes, since you've indicated swing already. Yeah, swing is not exactly the same as triplets, but in this piece there is no need to distinguish.
>>66360763
Shit, skipped a step here.
>>originally came up with first two measures by improvising on what someone here suggested many threads ago, "use m2s and m6s"
>>they're scale degrees 2 through 5 of the scale, B C D# E
between those two should be something like
>>so the 'most important' notes in the scale are the ones from the original idea which I expanded into the first two measures
(which were D#, B , E and C.)
>>66362764
Uh, sorry, it's just a cello thing. If it helps, whenever I'm reading a viola part in alto I remember that the note the clef is "pointing" at is middle C no matter what.
>>66362978
I know it's a C clef, but I can't read it instantly. I have to count the lines from the c and calculate
>>66362717
>I can't just write an entire movement by slow trial and error to discern what pitch should go next
you can, but you're right it can start sounding unfocused. I'd suggest just sketching the whole thing to the end of the movement / piece trial and error styles, just using your own judgement to keep things coherent. Have an overall idea or overall sound you're trying to go for and just write with that in mind. Then you can go back and "focus" it, improving weak parts etc.
I guess everyone has their own work process, but I couldn't handle over-analyzing the first 6 bars of what I was writing unless it was something complicated like a strict fugue exposition. Just let the music flow out, you can always delete or edit it later.
>>66362866
Thanks anon, sorry for being so shit though. It's no excuse but I've never played a melodic instrument in my life.
> when you write a nice depressing/melancholic melody but when you add chords that fit within the scale it just makes it sound happy
> and shit
I've got a B, D, C, bm, D sharp, and A and I'm in the D sharp scale (I'm assuming) what chords would compliment each note that would still keep the feel melancholic?
>>66363688
>>66362866
Also how are you doing the input for this?
(musescore)
>>66363740
Pretty sure he's using sibelius. surely musescore can do this though?
>>66363700
post melody, we will give you some dark chords
>>66363804
It's from a black metal song I'm working on which explains the tremolo
>>66349409
Anons being nice in /comp/ Feels good.
>>66363404
>I guess everyone has their own work process, but I couldn't handle over-analyzing the first 6 bars of what I was writing unless it was something complicated like a strict fugue exposition
I guess it's no wonder the first piece I ever completed was a fugue. (But that was because I never ever complete things, and also I was being a tryhardy little shit.)
https://clyp.it/bvimecj4
another short, maybe i'll continue with this one, it's kinda funny i think. what'd you think anon?
>>66363880
Your melody seems to start in one key and finish in another, but I did my best.
https://clyp.it/uqa3lfpg
For Black metal you can keep things pretty simple, I'd try to think more about chordal writing than trying to have a melody and then harmonise it. Black metal is all about sweet chord progressions more than melodies imo.
>>66364706
Also reposting my "Standard Black metal chord Progression" I made ages ago. Literally every black metal song ever could get away with just playing this progression over and over.
Sometimes 2 note chords (dyads) are the most effective, more notes just clutter up the place. Semitone movement is also your friend. Up and down by semitone, while everything else stays static, can't go wrong.
>>66364706
This is great, it still has those "cheerful" chords that I was trying to get away from but it has the darker chords that compliment them with a darker stormy night feeling. Thankyou
>>66349115
just play around in a certain key or mode and know what interval jumps sound good
>>66364853
Yeah I'd focus more on writing cool chords than writing melodies and trying to harmonize them. You only need 2 notes per chord, just double them up or down the octave to fill them out. Dyads m8, lots of semitone movement and you're looking good
>>66364913
Well just jamming is how I end up with the melody and that's what leads into the song for me, but it's breaking down which key notes to take the roots, thirds, fifths, and sevenths from to try out as chords to find a fitting progression
>>66364826
>>66364913
I can hear this with the blast beats and vocals and maybe some synth making this a roaring steed on a stormy road song like early taake and dissection, what do you play?
>>66363688
it's totally an excuse, everyone starts off shit and I think you're on the right foot. And yeah I'm using Sibelius, no idea about muse score
>>66365053
>what do you play?
I'm only one of the anons you replied to, but these days my main instrument is accordion. I used to play guitar and do lead screaming in a 3 piece death metal band though, so I have plenty of experience with black metal-esque riffs. I was once on the front page of a local newspaper under the heading "death metal and symphonies" when I had a piece recorded by our national orchestra and was still playing death metal shows at the time
So I dare to ask, does anyone here know anything about set theory? Because this sonata seems like it might very soon require it.
>>66365211
that's badass, do you feel any correlation between classical and black metal, or death metal with large overtures?
>>66365756
definitely. Lots of classical is "metal" as fuck. dissonant chugging and polyrhythms. Stravinsky and Mahler or Mendelssohn, even Ferneyhough. Many metal musicians are heavily inspired by classical. Necrophagist went as far as to quote Prokofiev and Beethoven in their Epitaph album. Some german metal band (der Golem iirc) covered Le Sacre which was pretty cool.
Another 2 pages done for the stream on Modal scales, and still happily testing out stuff in Lilypond.
Vote for a streaming date, you can check more than 1 option.
www.strawpoll.me/10720807
>>66365942
Firmly agree'd, Edward Elgars Cello Concert, 2nd movement in particular, I found randomly on youtube about 8 years ago and looking back at it through the years as my favorite concerto I hear it's similarity to a lot of large ambient and depressive black metal. Then I look at the large sound of Immolation's Majesty and Decay and I feel a large prescience found in a lot of overtures
>>66365756
Eh, I agree there's a bit of an affinity, but it's really a stylistic influence more than anything else. Surface level things (not like instrumentation of course, but) rather than any deeper connections.
I like how there is a thread like this in the same board as grimes threads and taylor swift threads. The funny part is that you pretentious assholes like them too. It's embarrassing really.
>>66367596
It's all music, anon, so we can't discuss this in /fa/ or wherever.
>>66367652
/fa/ and /lit/ talk about music all the time. They are basically /mu/'s suboards. I think /lit/ has better classical threads too.
>>66367596
Personally I never stray outside /comp/ or /classical/
99% of /mu/ is embarrassing
>>66367697
Wait, really? I chose /fa/ at random, honestly. Perhaps I should have gone with /d/.
But why /fa/?
>>66368116
I'd guess phone & headphones as /fa/shistoid accessories, which in turn need adequate music to complete the impression
>>66368152
Oh.
Come to think of it this happens on /a/ too for some reason
**QUESTION**
Both these melodies are mostly a descending scale but are they "too similar" ?
>>66368352
They could easily be considered and used as variations of the same motif. They're very different in terms of harmonic implications, though.
>>66368402
the last note is different by a third so they could potentially have harmony in common
how similar would you say these are?
>>66368461
5/6 similarity
>>66368643
and with something as basic as going down a scale would they still be too similar to be different melodies ?
>>66368745
I wouldn't classify them as markedly different, no. 1 note has been changed. its a minor variation.
What are you trying to get us to do your homework or something?
>>66368461
Well, the second one has a range of a perfect fifth, the only melodic interval that isn't a step is a third, every strong beat is a chord tone of Gmin, and every weak beat except for the last one is a chord tone of DDom7, so it implies the key of G minor pretty heavily.
The first one is, well, the exact same, except it jumps from Bb to E. Tritones generally have pretty strong implications for harmony in general, since in a 'normal' scale there's only one (well, two in harmonic minor), and that one is a key ingredient of either a dominant seventh chord or a diminished seventh chord, both chords with dominant function. (It could also be a key ingredient of a ii°6 chord, a very strong predominant.)
Considering E natural is not in the key of G minor, which the first measure still implies but less heavily without the second measure in the other melody (it could easily be D minor instead), it immediately shifts the feeling toward one of modulation. (Note that all of this is very, very dependent on other notes, especially a bassline, If the first of these two melodies had D minor in the harmony it would be a perfectly diatonic D minor melody, though the tritone would be a bit suspect, while if the second had D minor in the harmony it would sound like you were going to iv in the second measure, pretty standard fare.)
My analysis is pretty much based on the assumption this is an unaccompanied line, a pretty useless assumption to make but necessary in order to analyze it harmonically. As you say, they're way too similar not to be considered slight variants of the same motif. In fact they sound like they could easily be used in the same theme. The second one sounds like the motif a theme might start with, the first one sounds like the variant that will initiate modulation to a B section or second theme or whatever.
>>66368901
so a song with melody 2 would be considered a "rip off" of melody 1?
>>66369033
lol this is getting somewhat suspicious
>>66369033
rip off, quotation, minor variation, same shit
Why do you need to know? also are you retarded?
>>66369033
Maybe, possibly? It doesn't really matter, because neither of them can possibly be called a melody at all, they're simply too short to be called such. There needs to be a greater context where we can tell, for example, even what key they're in. One could be in one key and the other in a separate key. They could be two different keys and one of them suggests a modulation to another key. They could be two different keys and both following the same harmony, and in that case it might possibly be considered a rip off, depending on what harmonies they are and what the continuation of both melodies are. But in all cases the answer is that more context is required.
>>66368352
>>66368286
For what purpose? I think >>66368901 might be on to something
last two pages took real long. I'll have to skip an example for the mixolydian mode and shorten the harmonization part if I were to present the stream this evening.
I'd suggest Fr or Sa or Su, but choose yourselves.
http://www.strawpoll.me/10720807
PS: everyone ok on reading mensural notation? It's just a c clef.
http://www.strawpoll.me/10720807
>>66367302
Anon into both art music and metal here
This is true
>>66365211
>but these days my main instrument is accordion
So the reverse path of Decapitated's guitarist?
>>66364706
>Black metal is all about sweet chord progressions more than melodies imo.
Depends of the subgenre and more generally of the band
>>66361508
kek
>>66370623
>reverse path of Decapitated's guitarist?
not sure, I dont know his background, I think he's polish and everyone plays accordion in europe right? All I know is I wanted to learn traditional songs, mostly Russian and French songs to start with, but I've learned some American, Irish, Australian and various other traditional songs (even some Christmas carols and the odd game soundtrack - RCT theme music and some FFVII and VIII), a lot of fun to play and sing.
I think I saw decapitated live once with Nile. It was a pretty good show.
>>66370902
He went from accordion to guitar ( still playing accordion i think ? )
>French songs
yay !
On a side note accordion looks pretty hard to do
>>66371501
>do
play
>>66371501
I could certainly feel my brain working when I was first learning, having to do 3 things at once and learn a new system of making chords.
Thankfully the chord buttons are very logically laid out, and everything is in 5ths so you can play pretty much any song without having to move your hand too much.
Really beautiful instrument, with a startling dynamic range. It really hits you in the feels especially lots of big major cadences with 7ths or dim7s
>>66371813
boat clyp plz
>>66371845
https://clyp.it/4fpk0f0e
sure
>>66371898
>>66372108
>mfw the version of the red army choir
>>66372270
Its a beautiful tune. I'll never forget when Klashnikov died and moot had that exact red army choir piece playing on repeat in the thread on /k/. mad respect
>>66364568
I have a phobia against most "dramatic melodic minor" music, but even so, I think you're on to something here. There's a clear structure to this that is also audible. I'd say, instead of maybe continuing this, try elaborating on it. Try exaggerating the concept you have even more, and don't be afraid of ripping into what you've already put on paper (just save the old version in another file). Find out how you can make the intro even more interesting by toying around with the concept you have now (melody + 16th note accompaniment + bass).
>>66365211
Please post some accordion music you've written
>>66367302
I've never really understood the connection between classical and metal (except the neo classical metal ofc). If metal is influenced by classical, then so is pretty much every other genre too.
Hey there, I've saved my current progress on the materials here
http://lilybin.com/vyvj9k/1
would anyone wanna skim through it and look for mistakes? Also feel free to hit me up with suggestions etc.
Cheers.
>>66372721
I wrote some very easy songs when I was learning, I dont play them any more though. I dont usually write for it, just learn traditional songs.
I put them together in a PDF for when my bro was interested in learning:
https://www.scribd.com/document/318177809/Accordion-Pieces
>pfff. i'll write a piece tomorrow instead
>>66371813
>maj7 means use the dominant 7th chord
what the fuck is wrong with this person. play the root and the minor chord a third above.
>>66370902
Where are you from accordianon-kun
>>66373224
The buttons are arranged in rows relating to the root note, which are all set out in fifths, so you have an 'E' row where you can play an E root note, an E major chord, minor chord, maj7th and dim7th. The easiest way to play that E maj7th chord is to play the E root note and the maj7th button. you have a Row of major 3rds as well, but they're just one note, not an actual maj7 chord. it would be too much of a stretch and too much mental gymnastics to try to find the minor chord a third above, when the chord you need is already in the row your finger is playing the bass note in.
"dominant 7th" is just what the maj7th chords are called on that specific button chart. The text is an explanation for a beginner about what kind of chords to expect when learning random sheet music.
>>66373261
NZ. I'm also the fugue anon and the guy writing the symphony. Thats my score in the OP too!
>>66373320
The accordion in that example does not have a maj7th row of chords, so you couldn't. He is also playing Emaj7 with a D natural, which is 100% wrong. It's also not too much of stretch, I play accordion too.
>>66373365
Ah the score is probably incorrect, I just whipped it up by ear, and I'm notoriously sloppy!
I always just used dominant 7th and major 7th interchangeably, but they are different chords. I probably should have written "7" instead of "maj7" in the example score then.
>>66373406
>I always just used dominant 7th and major 7th interchangeably
why though
>>66373337
Just wanted to found you
Idk why i'm not a stalker and i won't do anything. Curiosity maybe.
>>66373464
Mostly because I never bothered to find where to play the Maj7. 7 chord works fine for all the pieces I play, and most of them ask for 7 chords anyway, so the answer is mostly due to ease of play and simplicity.
I just tried playing the minor chord a 3rd above to make the maj7th chord and you have to stretch over 4 rows, pretty awkward and definitely wouldn't be easy to do as part of a fast chord change. The other option would be to use the counterbass buttons to play the major seventh, but then you have your seventh in the bass and it clashes with the bass note.
>>66373577
You can also play both the major chord of the root and the major chord a 5th above, so E root + Emaj + Bmaj, you also get a 9th but depending on the style that is fine
>>66365211
P O L Y
>>66349584
My idea was to do the challenge with a vamp, followed by two 12 bar blues sections.
Might as well post WIP since I'm out of ideas for a vamp.
http://vocaroo.com/i/s0BMyKRAxEft
>>66349584
>tfw ive been trying to finish and force another time signature into my piece for the challenge for days
lol im a fucken idiot i cant finish this shit
>>66373755
nice, but why the abrupt tempo change? would be hard to play that live. An 8th note in tempo A is a dotted 8th in tempo B, but since the dotted rhythms aren't strongly present in tempo B, it's a hard transition.
>>66374694
err... was aiming for the dotted quarter in A to be a half in B. Trying to transform the dotted quarter + quarter + quarter feel in A to half + quarter + quarter in B.
I'll probably recheck that calculation in a bit.
>>66374808
why not just write that out instead dotted quarter = half
>>66374933
Don't really know how this works lol. Sorta my first time writing weird rhythms and time changes. And also, don't know how to do it in musescore.
>>66373087
Wow, Jesus.
