Vim vs Emacs
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I want to start using one of these two, what are objectively the pros and cons of each?
Try to keep it civil please, I know it's usually a heated debate.
It's subjective.
Try both and use the one you like more.
(Vim is better)
>>54176293
>Try both and use the one you like more.
This.
Also, you can get Vim bindings in Emacs.
Emacs requires you to tweak and configure your install quite a lot to make it work how you want it.
>>54176096
Don't be retarded and use nano
>>54176096
I've never used emacs (so I guess my input isn't particularly helpful), but I'd suggest trying out vim. It's difficult and maybe even a little frustrating at first, but eventually you'll get addicted to it. Plus, you'll learn to use vi, which virtually any Unix-like system has.
If you're on GNU/Linux and have vim installed, just run `vimtutor' to get started.
vim and emacs are major memes, vim is 1980s tier and emacs is bloating shit. just use an IDE, all the good ones support vim style keybindings if you want that anyway.
The only good point of vim is its bindings, which have everything over M-x carpal-tunnel. So, use emacs, which does everything else better, but with the EVIL plugin. EVIL lets you emulate vim bindings in emacs. Perfect combination.
>>54176096
No matter which one you like the best, learn the basics of vi. It's found on pretty much any decent OS.
>Emacs
Will give you carpal tunnel.
Can do a shitload of things besides text editing (i.e. bloated as fuck).
>Vim
You can’t customize your keys without recompiling the software.
>>54176096
>be 2008
>go to terminal
>type vimtutor
>spend 15 minutes learning and practicing
And I've been using vim ever since.
I use emacs as my window manager and vim as my editor.
Gnu emacs is pretty bad compared to the original TECO emacs and Zmacs though (unfortunately, neither of those run on modern OSs without emulation).
Gentoo
Emacs is objectively better in all ways. I don't give enough of a shit about you to explain why.
spacemacs
>>54176293
Are there possible plugins to add some useful IDE features?
>>54177347
>You can’t customize your keys without recompiling the software.
What, that's not even remotely close to true, unless you consider the .vimrc "recompiling"
>>54177347
>You can’t customize your keys without recompiling the software.
Lol what. Every vim user I know keeps their .vimrc file in a source control repo so they can have the exact same setup anywhere they go.
Emacs will give you RSI from constant control+alt+meta+cokebottle. Should be used with foot pedals.
Vim will confuse you with it's arbitrary modal editing and wear out your escape key.
Honestly OP they both edit the shit out of text and you can plugin/extend either of them to be comparable to an IDE. Use EMACS if you want to live your terminal life in your text editor and vim if you want to use it along with other unix shit.
I know some people at my job who use emacs. I use vim for the youcompleteme plugin. This thing is freaking amazing. I know its like an IDE or whatever but dam, I want to use vim and have some IDE functionality. It's so nice.
>>54179297
Use EMACS if you want to live your terminal life in your text editor and vim if you want to use it along with other unix shit.
I second this. I haven't used emacs though.
Vim is just a hacked together piece of shit, so is most of its addons. Emacs + evil if you want a proper editor.
>>54177135
>calls Emacs bloated
>recommends using an IDE
>>54176096
sublime
>>54176587
This.
>>54176096
>1998+18
>using old shit like emacs or vim
spacemacs best of both worlds!
sublime text 3
/thread
>>54183447
>2048-32
>using old shit like the Linux kernel
>11111100000 binary
>not just killing yourself
>>54183455
Too bloated and slow.
>>54179297
Everybody remaps their esc cape. That shit is too far away.
>>54184065
swapping escape and caplock is the best thing ive done.
Nano master race!
>>54177135
>he doesn't appreciate minimalism and the beauty of simplicity
Why is there no love to /usr/bin/ed?
>>54185823
When I log into my Xenix system with my 110 baud teletype, both vi
*and* Emacs are just too damn slow. They print useless messages like,
'C-h for help' and '"foo" File is read only'. So I use the editor
that doesn't waste my VALUABLE time.
Ed, man! !man ed
NAME
ed - text editor
SYNOPSIS
ed [ - ] [ -x ] [ name ]
DESCRIPTION
Ed is the standard text editor.
---
Computer Scientists love ed, not just because it comes first
alphabetically, but because it's the standard. Everyone else loves ed
because it's ED!
"Ed is the standard text editor."
And ed doesn't waste space on my Timex Sinclair. Just look:
-rwxr-xr-x 1 root 24 Oct 29 1929 /bin/ed
-rwxr-xr-t 4 root 1310720 Jan 1 1970 /usr/ucb/vi
-rwxr-xr-x 1 root 5.89824e37 Oct 22 1990 /usr/bin/emacs
Of course, on the system *I* administrate, vi is symlinked to ed.
Emacs has been replaced by a shell script which 1) Generates a syslog
message at level LOG_EMERG; 2) reduces the user's disk quota by 100K;
and 3) RUNS ED!!!!!!
"Ed is the standard text editor."
Let's look at a typical novice's session with the mighty ed:
golem> ed
?
help
?
?
?
quit
?
exit
?
bye
?
hello?
?
eat flaming death
?
^C
?
^C
?
^D
?
---
Note the consistent user interface and error reportage. Ed is
generous enough to flag errors, yet prudent enough not to overwhelm
the novice with verbosity.
"Ed is the standard text editor."
>>54185976
Ed, the greatest WYGIWYG editor of all.
ED IS THE TRUE PATH TO NIRVANA! ED HAS BEEN THE CHOICE OF EDUCATED
AND IGNORANT ALIKE FOR CENTURIES! ED WILL NOT CORRUPT YOUR PRECIOUS
BODILY FLUIDS!! ED IS THE STANDARD TEXT EDITOR! ED MAKES THE SUN
SHINE AND THE BIRDS SING AND THE GRASS GREEN!!
When I use an editor, I don't want eight extra KILOBYTES of worthless
help screens and cursor positioning code! I just want an EDitor!!
Not a "viitor". Not a "emacsitor". Those aren't even WORDS!!!! ED!
ED! ED IS THE STANDARD!!!
TEXT EDITOR.
When IBM, in its ever-present omnipotence, needed to base their
"edlin" on a UNIX standard, did they mimic vi? No. Emacs? Surely
you jest. They chose the most karmic editor of all. The standard.
Ed is for those who can *remember* what they are working on. If you
are an idiot, you should use Emacs. If you are an Emacs, you should
not be vi. If you use ED, you are on THE PATH TO REDEMPTION. THE
SO-CALLED "VISUAL" EDITORS HAVE BEEN PLACED HERE BY ED TO TEMPT THE
FAITHLESS. DO NOT GIVE IN!!! THE MIGHTY ED HAS SPOKEN!!!
>>54177135
>emacs is bloated
Good luck with fitting a IRC client, web browser, games and a serious text editor/ide in 20 MiB of RAM.
Vim pros:
- Usually installed everywhere (not that emacs is hard to install)
- "Universal" bindings on manpages, browser addons etc.
- More information and guides on the web
- Generally doesn't need multiple keys pressed at the same time (Insert mode is generally the only one where one will use ctrl-key combinations)
- Smaller binary than emacs
Emacs pros:
- Doesn't require key remapping (when using vim you _have_ to remap ESC)
- Scripting is done with an actual language
- "Universal" bindings on non-modal stuff like readline and non-modal programs like irssi
- More hipster cred
Both have a ton of addons that are useful, but both require a bit of configuring and tweaking before they feel good and work well. Choose the one that someone you know uses.
>>54186058
You can use Emacs to edit files over ssh without using any editor on the remote machine.
As for remapping, my pinky finger can start to feel funny if I don't have control key rebound to caps lock.
>>54176096
I found this to be informative on this matter
https://youtu.be/JWD1Fpdd4Pc
>>54186114
>You can use Emacs to edit files over ssh without using any editor on the remote machine.
That's cool actually, didn't know that. As you may have been able to read between the lines of my post, I use vim.
Also, I usually mount remote filesystems locally if I want to make lots of edits to files.
>>54177135
>Vim is 1980 tier
It still works well. Also Neovim is nice.
Plus, if you ever need to do work on a headless server (i.e. some VPS), you need to know how to use at least one good text editor while in SSH. Vim is perfect for that.
>>54186238
>C-x C-f /ssh:username@host:/path/to/file RET
Emacs is superior.
>>54186268
That's a lot of writing without tab completion and you have to do it again for every file.
How do Vimfags even play Tetris?
>>54186338
You can autocomplete that.
Writing paths to files in Emacs is pretty fast with autocompletion.
>>54186338
You should have HELM installed for fuzzy-matched everything in Emacs. Between that and dired browsing directories is very fast.
>>54185693
I use 'jk' as my escape, since you almost never have to actually type those letters next to each other
>>54186649
Protip: C-[ is mapped to escape by default in Vim.
If you have replaced capslock with control as everyone should have it's an incredibly convenient combination.
>>54186753
>Protip: C-[ is mapped to escape by default in Vim.
It's not vim. C-[ and ESC is the same thing for your terminal.
>>54186502
Autocomplete a remote directory without an active SSH connection? what how que
>>54186801
It will start a ssh connection when you try to autocomplete
>>54176587
Hitler used nano.
>>54186794
Do you know if gvim maintains this? I've never used Vim directly in a serious fashion, but use Emacs+Evil and some other vim bindings pretty frequently and all of them bind C-[ to ESC (so not within a terminal).
>>54176096
if you start over new, consider neovim instead of vim.
It is like the choice between Python 2.7.x and Python 3.x
One works perfectly well, the other is the future
>>54187013
I only use emacs-nox
>still using console text editors
Just sudo gedit or kedit. The fuck is wrong with you guys? How specific can your text editor needs be?
>>54184065
I d-didn't... I like <Esc> in combination with <Cr>
It is like ying and yang
>>54176096
I prefer Vim because the default keybinding and commands make sense to me and I find it them intuitive and memorable (eg y for yank, p for put, :q for quit, :w for write etc)
In Emacs even the C-x C-c RET chord just to quit don't make sense to me. And they are so different than keyboards shortcuts of every other program out there that I find using Emacs terrible. ymmv.
Also, I like viml and and I prefer it to elisp. Sure, it's not the best or more consistent language in the world but I like how it just extends the standard vi commands.
Just form your own opinion, and keep in mind you don't need to learn either. An editor is just a tool, the time you would spend on either may be better spend on learning something else or just using a FOSS IDE.
>>54187406
>kedit
did you mean kate?
Because kedit is really shit compared to emacs/vim editors.
Kate is at least in the same league
>>54187806
What is the difference?
>>54187847
kedit is not the kde text editor if that what you think.
kedit is some windows editor nobody uses.
Kate is the advanced text editor from kde.
They also have a simple text editor if you hate features for some reason
>>54187917
Oh, my bad then.
But why are all the faggots in this thread arguing over bash text editor with a fuckload of unintuitive shortcuts and no highlighting when they can just use desktop text editors?
>>54188003
noones talking about a program like that.
>>54188003
Because said desktop editors still aren't nearly as good as the terminal text editors, the only desktop editor that I've seen come close is Sublime Text.
Emacs + Spacemacs is god-tier.
Otherwise just use >atom
sage for shitty post
>>54177135
>Emacs is bloated
>Use an IDE
>>54177347
>You can’t customize your keys without recompiling the software.
>>54176096
Atom
Go fuck yourself
>>54183447
>Not using a cloud IDE powered by node to impress your fellow code artisans coding ruby on rails at your local spacebucks
>>54178607
In Vim there are. You can use NERDtree for a file browser, YouCompleteMe provides excellent autocomplete and Syntastic can do automatic syntax checking (I believe YouCompleteMe might also do this, but I'm not sure). There's plenty of other plugins too like I think Ctrl+P is a plugin for project search.
>>54176096
Vim has a better default setup.
Emacs is more powerful.
>>54177328
>not learning ed
>>54177347
> bloated as fuck
Not really. Compared to a modern IDE emacs uses less memory, less disk space and still does a hell of a lot. It's also more responsive.
Right now emacs has about 100 buffers open and is using 100Mb of memory, about 20x less than Safari and 4x less than Slack.
It was perfectly correct to call emacs bloated in the past when it actually mattered at all.
>>54188057
because you haven't looked.
Kate has been around a lot longer than sublime text.
I think it is weird that people who use vim/emacs are willing to spend years configuring their text editor to make it good, yet when they see something else that has nearly all the same features they just give up because it doesn't work as well over ssh.
The popularity of sublime has sparked a lot of interest in making a better editor that is free, and can be extended like vim.
I personally just used kate because it was the default on kde and when I saw my entire workflow could get replicated and be more efficient with that, I switched to using that instead.
>>54188341
kate is shit m8
>>54188366
why?
>>54186187
Vim can do it too, but Emacs's eshell can actually cd into a remote system.
>>54186338
It's a good thing that Emacs has good completion then.
>>54187406
>he doesn't know that both emacs and gvim have graphical versions
>>54188197
He's right though. You can "alias" keys with map, but you can't actually redefine the default key commands, unlike, say, Emacs.
