O.T.O
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You are currently reading a thread in /x/ - Paranormal
Anyone here a memeber? I went to my local chapter to perform the Minerva ritual and enter the lodge but everyone there were super fedora tippers and didn't seem to meet my expectations of proper initiates.
Is there another society worth looking into? Should I just pay the 10$ and receive correspondence from the great lodge in Seattle instead?
>>17833955
>Anyone here a memeber?
Sort of; inactive, considering resignation.
>Minerva
You mean Minerval.
>super fedora tippers and didn't seem to meet my expectations of proper initiates
Sometimes it happens; really depends on the local populace.
>Seattle
Try Coph-Nia instead.
>>17834019
How did you like you local chapter and why are you considering resignation? It really didn't seem to be professional or taken as seriously as I would have hoped but I'm going to look around for other chapters, given there are any close to me. I will write to Coph-Nia, thank you for the response
>>17833955
>Anyone here a memeber?
I never resigned. They likely purged me from the rolls, but didn't formally throw me out.
What do you hope to find in the OTO?
>>17834043
>How did you like you local chapter
Great, considering I built it from the ground up and was a signatory on the charter.
>why are you considering resignation
My local body master was a piece of human filth, etc., etc., plus some seriously bad run ins with upper level administration and the OTO Prison Ministry.
What is this and what do you gain by joining? I am interested in learning the occult, but I don't know shit except sigils.
>>17834070
>What is this
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ordo_Templi_Orientis
>what do you get
An occasionally interesting social club.
>>17834051
I was really just hoping to meet more like minded individuals to discuss and take part in creative endeavors with. I have friends who casually read Crowley but I wanted to subject myself to stricter regiments and perform rituals with knowledgable experience propel
>>17834056
Care to indulge on any stories?
>>17834100
None that are vague enough to not dox myself, which I'd prefer not to given I'm pirating the vast majority of the Yorke Microfilms of the Warburg Collection.
>>17834100
Those are legitimate reasons. The question is whether you will find that in the OTO. It strongly depends on where you look. I got very lucky and the person with whom I hooked up is, so far, still in the Order.
Good people who know their shit are rare. They are no more common in the OTO than anywhere else.
Pic unfortunately related.
The lodge here is $372 a year plus the $80 for grand lodge membership.
Fuck that.
>>17834155
>went to occult class
>learned about assholes
Pic fucking related.
>>17834158
Most people spend more on weed. It keeps the worst out. And others, but what you gain is better.
>>17834173
I don't smoke weed. I pretty much spend my money on food, rent, and services like Netflix and Internet. That is substantially more than a year of Netflix.
>>17833955
Was looking into my local chapter until I found out the local head failed rudimentary algebra at a local community college...3 times.
That and a lot of the higher rituals require gay butt sex.
>>17834183
Improve your magic until the money isnt an issue. Or don't bother with orders unless you're sure it's a good one.
>>17834173
>It keeps the worst out
No. No it fucking doesn't, Keith. High dues don't keep out:
>Jim Wasserman
>Bill Breeze
>David Scriven
>Rufus Opus
>Everyone ever associated with OTO Prison Ministry
>The vast majority of the EC which appears to be physically allergic to competence
Also, local dues are local. There are PLENTY of small local bodies that charge no or negligible dues.
And what exactly do you get, benefit wise?
The Guilds are nonfunctioning.
Agape's a fucking newsletter.
And ever single LBM will tell you flat out that the OTO's not a teaching order and that if you want instruction you have to go to the A.'.A.'. or be motivated enough to self study.
>>17834196
I could afford it now. I just won't.
>>17834158
>this
It's a fucking scam. The higher ranks get paid and the lower ranks pay, and are expected to suck/fuck the bosses.
The internet has made orders obsolete. Why pay good money for something you get for free?
>>17834189
>That and a lot of the higher rituals require gay butt sex.
One ritual for one office at the very top, of which there have only been 3 people on planet earth to receive:
>Crowley
>Germer
>Breeze
Though you could technically call Pat King's XIIh outside of the usual grade structure.
>failed basic math
I find that somewhat hard to buy given the requirements after 3rd degree and there's a strangely large number of engineers and psychologists with Masters degrees filling LBM positions.
>>17834108
What are the Yorke Microfilms exactly ?
>>17834209
>The higher ranks get paid and the lower ranks pay
The only person who receives anything resembling a salary is Bill Breeze's parsonage which comes to about 30k. Local dues stay local to pay for feasts, temple furniture, etc.
It's like you folks have never bothered to look at the OTO's tax filings, good lord, I ain't even defending the Org, but at least be accurate in your attacks.
>>17834215
Crowley's unpublished diaries and papers:
http://www.worldcat.org/title/aleister-crowley-papers-the-microfilm-edition-release-1/oclc/52940569
See the mega.nz archive I maintain in the Occultism & Magick thread; like an idiot I didn't link in the OP for last thread but if you ctrl+f "mega" in my thread you'll find the link.
It's under the folder:
>A.'.A.'.>Crowley>Yorke Microfilms of the Warburg Collection
>>17834231
It's okay I found it, thank you very much for your reply
>>17834202
>Keith
Srsly?
>>17834275
I don't think he's here (I goddamn hope) but that's an argument I've heard spew from his mouth before; dues keep out the lower and lower middle classes who should be barred from entry for being low class scum.
>>17834279
You are clearly knowledgable on this, what are your thoughts on the current OTO? Do you think Crowley would be pleased on how it conducts itself. Do you have any advice for those looking to join And personal opinions on it as whole?
>>17833955
how is this a secret society if everyone knows about it? at least no one knows what actually happens in freemasonry since they are all hush hush about it. oto just does rituals
>>17834353
It's not supposed to be secret but the going ons aren't well known to the general public
Language falls. Words are mere cyphers, and who can read the
riddle? These words we use, what are they but vain shadows of form
and sense? We strive to clothe our highest thought with verbal
trappings that our brother may see and understand; and when we
would describe a saint he sees a demon; and when we would present a
wise man he beholds a fool. "Fie upon you," he cries; "thou, too,
art a fool . "
So wisdom drapes her truth with symbolism, and covers her insight
with allegory. Creeds, rituals, poems are parables and symbols.
The ignorant take them literally and build for themselves prison
houses of words and with bitter speech and bitterer taunt denounce
those who will not join them in the dungeon. Before the rapt
vision of the seer, dogma and ceremony, legend and trope dissolve
and fade, and he sees behind the fact the truth, behind the symbol
the Reality.
>>17834334
No, I think AC told Germer in a letter in '42 to either change the structure of the Order, or fuck off:
>Crowley, in a letter to Germer dated March 14, 1942 e.v., wrote: “I shall appoint you as my successor as O.H.O. [i.e. Outer Head of the Order of O.T.O.], but on special terms. It is quite clear to me that a complete change in the structure of the Order, and in its methods, is necessary”. Such a change was never implemented. Germer later wrote of Crowley: “He suggested to me that I may either drop this form or system of working, or devise my entirely independent method”. He apparently chose the former option, as he ceased all initiations and dropped the work entirely, choosing to focus on publishing Crowley’s works alone. Germer is often criticized for this; but it was his prerogative.
And in a letter dated Nov. 24, 1941, Aleister Crowley expatiated on these points as follows:
>Note that the O.T.O. will probably have to be completely reconstructed. The temp [sic] of the New Aeon seems unfavourable for Lodges, and the “Secrets” are unintelligible to anyone who has not made a long study of the system. At present there are really two sections: the rituals – up to Rose Croix; and the essays of instruction dealing with the one real secret. The ritual corresponding with these were never written, except the Templar. So I rather expect that it will be up to you to devise some totally new method of communicating the real secret. … you, not I, are the axle of the wheel.”
Folks like Keith418 like to say 'turn to Crowley for your answers'. Well, why the fuck ain't he quit yet and worked on some kind of Fresh Fever?
For those interested in their local body, test it out for a year before getting seriously involved. You should know by then if you think you'll mesh well with the locals. Crowley is, IMHO, best studied either alone and thoroughly or under the direction of someone competent, which doesn't always mean an OTO related instructor.
>>17834363
>Manly Hall
Word.
>>17834363
in my experience though some "metaphors" and "symbols" can be quite literal
>>17834380
Yes in your experience
>>17834380
There's a huge difference between: "this is pure allegory" and "this symbol signifies something concrete" when you're getting a knowledge lecture.
The problems are lecturers who don't know any fucking better, and bald-faced dishonesty (i.e. trying to keep the OTO's """secrets""" secret with initiate after like 1st degree...it ain't like any mouth breathing doofus CAN'T go download Francis King's Secret Rituals of the OTO.
>>17834388
Well, I for one think there is a "cup of blood".
Grant morrison talks about it in the invisbles and it's on these shell oil templar/illuminati stain glass windows so I for one am of the camp that believes these symbols of actual artifacts or technologies and not metaphors or pure allegory for some philosophical truth.
also my captcha had the templar cross when I mentioned them and i always get wierd captchas when I talk about freemasonry or teh templars, i'll post it next. It downloaded as "payload".
>>17834409
Am I the only one who get's captchas with freemason or templar symbols when he mentions them in his posts?
>>17833955
You do know these gay clubs are just an exploit to separate gullible fools from their money, right?
>>17834409
>The Bloody Graal
Another multivalent symbol, both literal and allegorical.
See: Mass of the Holy Ghost/Grimorium Sanctissimum contrasted against The Vision and the Voice.
>>17834422
what would I google to learn more? the vision and the voice are too generic and will return reality tv shows
Often times there is plenty of history available on figures like grimorium except the part where he gets involved with the bloody grail and occult stuff, that's harder to find
>>17834428
http://hermetic.com/crowley/the-vision-and-the-voice/
Particularly from like 25/20 forward.
http://www.angelfire.com/rnb/pearllibonline6/grimoire.pdf
>>17834429
Fuck off, Pet3r.
>>17834429
pro tip, ignore christ tards
this thread is really making me think
>>17834430
>http://hermetic.com/crowley/the-vision-and-the-voice/
>It is like the vision called the Universal Peacock,
isn't the peacock one of the many symbols for lucifer?
>>17834445
About what?
I personally think the templars are the most powerful and well kept secret society in the world and when people refer to the illuminati they are referring to the templars
>>17834447
Melek Taus is NOT Lucifer/Satan.
It's closer to Samael, but pretty instead of grim, and likely reflects a pre-Abrahamic Godform than anything else.
>>17834478
>OTO
>inheritors of the Templars
Pick one and only one.
>>17834481
i don't think oto is inheriting the templars, I just said the templars are still around and are the most powerful society.
>>17834490
>>17834481
I just remember reading somewhere that lucifer was represented by a peacock
just googled it and the answers all say that muslims and christians all say that melek taus was the devil before he was named by the abrahmic religions
>>17834499
>muslims and christians
Oh, yeah, just fuck what the Yazids have to say about their own religion and history, let's listen to the folks most inclined to demonize outside faiths about what's what.
>>17834496
oh, just the fact that templar symbolism is literally everywhere in modern society and that our world is run by bankers which is the templar profession along with warrior. That and all the major companies in the world are either red and white in color which was the color of the templars or they have some templar symbolism worked in like the lorain cross which was on exxon mobile and tj maxx. I also think johnson and johnson is templar because repeating numbers, names was a symbol of the templar and a horse with two knights on it symbolized the templars.
Literally everything in western socitey has symbolism that can be traced back to the freemasons, the templars, or hermetic-ism.
not only that they are all major sun worshipers and the sun symbolism is in tons of shit
>>17834515
I mean this shit is hanging in teh bank of america head quarters in new york
>red and white
>checker board
>woman in white (white queen)
>in a box (that muslim cube)
>man in red (red king)
>next to burning bush (chirstian for talking to god)
>bankers and business men startegizing and talking about the boy whose left eye is covered by red
>left eye has significance throughout mythology specifically with odin the all seeing
>black sun in the sky, well known symbol for hermeits and freemasons
>stairway leading to heaven.
All of this in a bank
They are fucking templars and they are up to something fucking major.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8pPvNqOb6RA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3mbBbFH9fAg
>>17834537
dude it's art, you can see that symbolism in it someone else can see and notice something completly different
>>17834568
man seriously fuck yourself as hard as you can, for me, okay?
>>17834568
>it's art
>everything that is obviously there that you listed is obviously not there.
Is this cognitive dissonance or are you a shill?
The apocalypse is fucking happening bro
And a shit ton of people are lying about it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Id6nCa_OTEM
>>17834584
I love that vid.
Anywho if anyone actually wants to talk more about the OTO, I'll be around.
>>17834279
Why do you hate poor people? They can't throw good money after bad as much as those armchair occultist yuppie friends of yours?
The white lodge makes excellent opfers for the prince of darkness.
>>17834619
I..don't? I'm arguing AGAINST folks who say shit, hence my characterization of the opinion as "spew".
>>17834202
>Rufus Opus
What is wrong with this guy?
>>17834951
Dude just got onboard the A.'.A.'. train like two years back, so if he's got anything at all to say on the Angel it's because he's either regurgitating Guntherite horse-shit, the Guntherites shot him through the ranks because he publishes entry-level crap that people pay through the nose for, or he's full of shit period. Also, at this point, I'm pretty sure he's selling his services as an A.'.A.'. member which should be grounds for expulsion but:
>Gunther
I've seen this dude threaten people with publicly dropping the name of their Stellar Demon just for shits and gigs, with zero in ways of prompted like insult or anything.
Dude's a choad.
Should the OTO be avoided?
Not a society but >>17783560 was interesting.
>>17835324
I met one guy that reported to be from the OTO. Seemed distracted by his own dedication, but otherwise par for the course as spiritualists go. I've already heard supposed ex-OTO members say it's not worth its salt. I haven't researched it enough to know for myself.
>>17834413
Is that a secret lodge?
>>17834584
https://g.co/kgs/4P5kxN
>>17834092
my friend joined for the magick and all he got was a ruined asshole instead.
his small local chapter, he complained that all they ever did was devolve into orgies then go home. he said he went along with it in order to level up or whatever the fuck they do. always made sure to tell us that he wasn't gay, it was just magick.
i'm sure most aren't like that, especially the bigger lodges. i think the faggots in our town happened to be just about the only ones interested in it, and turned their lodge into a homo dating club.
>>17834279
>I don't think he's here (I goddamn hope)
It would surprise me, too. I'd expect more contempt and condescension.
>>17834353
>at least no one knows what actually happens in freemasonry since they are all hush hush about it
Lots of people know exactly what goes on. I've two monitors on my bookshelf.
>>17834973
>Also, at this point, I'm pretty sure he's selling his services as an A.'.A.'. member which should be grounds for expulsion
Oh, really? How so?
>>17835324
>Should the OTO be avoided?
That is really up to you and you should do your best to be well-informed before making it. Threads like this will help, hopefully.
>>17836142
kek
I was recently initiated into Masonry. What's the connection and what is Baphomet?
>>17837290
The OTO's degree structure is based on that of Freemasonry. The first three degrees, or "Man of Earth" triad, are a bit like Blue Lodge. The Vth is based on the 18th A&ASR.
Levi's not bad on Baphomet:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baphomet#Eliphas_L.C3.A9vi
>>17837301
I appreciate it.
If an order is open to the public it is at best a social club. If that's what you're looking for; cool. Just don't expect too much.
>>17836142
>he wasn't gay, it was just magick
Under rated post Muh sides
>>17834202
Elaborate on the prison ministry?
The negative side I mean.
All I could find from a google search are some minor correspondences or some Agapé shit
>>17833955
OP you may find this society of interest ...
www.isoidiots.com
>>17834158
That's about the same as freemasons. The majority of it goes into a charity fund and the rest in running costs. The only people who get paid at a lodge level are organists. At an organizational level there are a few people actually employed by grand lodge (librarian, property managers, etc) who get paid as it's literally their job and that's it.
>>17837905
That's fine, but I'm really not willing to pay that much to just explore something, especially if it is just a bunch of fedora orgies.
Patriarch structures... guess the male part of humankind needs clubs like this, otherwise it would feel lost. Omg!
>>17837915
That was referring to freemasons. I assume this order would be set up similarly as it's likely influenced by or a spin off from freemasonry. In any event they'll have to report their income for tax as with every organisation so it's not hard to check where the money goes.
