Do you guys think this kind of witchcraft is real?
>>17824400
Nope.
>>17824400
Yes because I perform it.
Fires in the woods.
Nekki'd folk.
Invokations to dark horned Gods.
Casting vases full of wine, blood, and cum into pyres.
The whole bit.
>>17825621
that doesnt make the witchcratf itself real tho
just the theatrics
>>17825642
>asks if "this kind" is real
>shows a pic of fire adoration while skyclad, rather than a D&D wihzyrd shooting fireballs
>confirm that the skyclad firey thing does exist
>told magic isn't real when epistemological statuses had nothing to do with the OP, seemingly, or my reply.
>>17824400
How else would they make it?
>>17825658
The fact that you do rituals doesn't mean the rituals actually do anything. He asked if we think that witchcraft actually works, saying you perform rituals doesn't mean shit if you don't tell us what happens when you do the rituals.
>>17825700
>He asked if we think that witchcraft actually works
>>17824400
>Do you guys think this kind of witchcraft is real?
>>17825740
dont dodge the question monkey, it's a valid point, why don't you, for our edification, describe one of your rituals and what you experience/ happens during them. One of the dragon stuff you're doing for instance. to give us an outlook on the thing
>>17825740
If you want to get into the specifics of it, yes he was asking if people really do witchcraft or if it really happens. But you can easily infer that he was asking if it really worked, if there was anything to it or if it was just a bunch of faggots in bedsheets roleplaying.
If you're a practicer of witchcraft I can already tell it's just a bunch of faggots in bedsheets roleplaying.
>>17825749
Black Oracle starts with a recitation of the mysteries, and a longform banishing.
Then, with the Chant of Ash, a forked tree branch is rent and placed into the ritual pyre.
At the triple exorcism, it's a psychosexual alchemical operation in which the corners and the pyre is blessed with the salt, sulfur, and mercury of my being.
At the four corners, a series of Agrippan infernal elementals form the Book of Enoch are evoked, occasionally to visible manifestation though not material...the double pentacles are cast and rotated as I seal the rite for Ka'I'Ra then attempt to evoke Babalon, Xaos, and Qayin via the charge unto shadow.
After that it depends on the exact ritual in question. Thus far it's been a lot of dream work (that's indeed got me from having no dreams to multiple significant dreams per week) though lately it's been working on the Holy Guardian Angel combined with Behenian arcana.
I've had what appears to be two physical interventions by the Angel of Wytchblood (ritual tools having the obvious marking of a rite I've yet to perform, adorations finishing themselves in my grimoire) and one audial manifestation (something calling out a specific sequence of letters only contained in my working grimoire, I actually thought I'd finally been busted trespassing before whatever it was started calling out material known only to myself, at which point I continued with the ritual undisturbed).
If you think it will work it works
>>17825787
Man it's really hard to make sense of all this..
So tldr, you recite some stuff, burn some stuff, see some weird figures in the background and you tools were marked without you marking them, and what do you mean by adorations finishing themselves in my grimoire? Like you were writing a poem and the poem was completed without you writing it?
Also you heard some shit. that about right?
I dont mean to like make fun of your practice im just trying to figure it out
>>17825787
So I guess a rundown of the individual rites is in order:
>KA
Charging the marriage vessel
>I
Hieros Gamos
>HU
Stellar Initiation
>SA
Shamanic empowerment
>BHA
Evokation of the 16 Mothers and Fathers of Wytchblood (mostly historical entities with a few constructed names)
>IA
Another stellar rite, this time charging the Phoenix Vessel or the vehicle of the Angel.
Up next are:
>KU
Empowerment of the Aeonic Stars, likely construction of the Toad amulet, casting the Phoenix Vessel into the fire (preparatory charging is very close to Vajrayana's Chod).
>LA
Series of sexual mysteries including sigil work and what appears to be an analog of Para Puja at a certain point (eight adorations on the trident using flowers).
>TAN
Recapitulation to the Angel
>HUA
Rite of the Dead
Then the speculatory rite:
>ZHA
To be taken under eclipse and appears to imply raising a standing stone for worship.
Witchcraft is lame as shit, only fat feminists do it, learn evocation or black magick.
>>17825844
>only fat feminists do it
Then what do we make of the Grimoire of Arthur Gauntlet?
>learn evocation or black magick.
Most "witchcraft" of various flavors does, in fact, deal with evokation, such as >>17825818
>Evokation of the 16 Mothers and Fathers of Wytchblood (mostly historical entities with a few constructed names)
Also, black v. white magick is a false dichotomy. There are only baleful or beneficial intentions on your end.
>>17824400
On a similar note, does anyone here believe in SANDWICH CRAFT? Please share pics, non-photoshoped only please.
>>17825987
Thou shalt not suffer a sandwich to live
>>17825658
Try some bleach enema.
>>17825996
Why?
>>17825998
Because it cures autism.
>>17825998
magic
>>17825991
>>17825987
now this i can get down with
>>17826005
1) No.
2) I have never been placed on the autism spectrum.
>>17826012
You do believe in magic and jerk off naked innawoods. If it's not autism then it must be some other kind of mental condition.
>>17826020
My therapist has repeatedly told me that I'm a highly motivated and capable individual who does not need medicated.
And they're well aware of my praxes.
But I'll be sure to let them know about your expert diagnostic revelations. Do you have contact information I can forward to my therapist so that you can work on treatment strategies together?
>>17826020
maybe he's just lonely
>>17826020
Jerking off naked innawoods sounds like fun actually.
>>17826027
Why do you have therapist if you're fine? Your therapist is just being nice because she is pitying you.
You dont need to do that much shit to curse somwant, this are for people with lower grasp in those forces.
This witchcraft arent effective, but other are
>>17824400
What is exactly going on there? nekid women and fire? that seems like fun and sex, not like some kind of sorcery.
>>17826872
Because it's nice to have someone to talk to that's not intimately involved in your life but still has some obligation to listen.
Also, I pay student fees for therapeutic and psychiatric access, may as well actually use it.
>>17826952
Autism prevents you from having friends apparently. That's why you go to therapist. You're autist in denial.
>>17825807
>im just trying to figure it out
It's easy. Just wing it. Make it up as you go. Does something work to your satisfaction? Just kind of? Great! Does it not work? Do something else then. Does none of it work? I dunno, maybe we really are all full of shit. That don't matter. The only bullshit that should matter to you is your own, customized bullshit. Now have fun.
>>17824400
Vvitch was pretty historically accurate as far as depicting what people though witches could actually do.
This scene, with the women flying, IRL, would have been more like a bunch of hippies at a bon fire --
historical witches used something called flying ointment to get high, which would make them feel like they were flying. it was made by mixing tropane alkaloid containing plants with rendered fat, and then used by applying it to a special dildo/a broom stick, and rubbing it on the vagina.
Now then, is it "real" as in harry potter tier "really real" magic? No. nine tenths of historical witchcraft is basically drugs, poisons and midwifery.
>>17826991
Or I have friends but acknowledge that their biased and nonobjective about their opinions.
I mean, therapists are as well, but there's a degree of separation which can lead you to conclusions it'd be hard to reach with a nonprofessional.
>>17827013
>nine tenths
I'd say it'd be closer to six tenths given the sort of historical information we have via Grimoire of Arthur Gauntlet, other papers preserved from the cunning tradition, the use and origin of the Witch-Jugs with all the Agrippan sigilizations, etc.
There is, actually, research on the Trad. Craft that sits at the intersection of the grimoire tradition and modern "new age" wicca.
The more research and reflecting I do, the more inclined I am to buy Spare, Crowley, and Gardner's stories about the Essex witch cult.
>>17827027
No, you don't have friends. Only autism.
>>17825987
Pikko?
>fat girls get naked in woods with other fat girls
>this is magick
>>17827037
K.
>>17827047
I'd rather spend my time with fat girls in the woods around a ritual pyre than playing this or that MOBA for ten hours a day.
>>17827067
Only if you had anybody to go with innawoods.
>>17825787
Isn't the book of Enoch Abrahamic in nature? I wasn't aware there were other witches that used that in their practice. My rituals are largely derived from Celtic and Norse roots, though I do occasionally work with Lilith.
>>17825807
The basic TL;DR of most ritual is:
>cast circle
>cut this
>burn that
>say the thing
There has to be focused intent accompanying it, of course, but that's the long and short of it.
>>17827145
Interestingly Lilith isn't an entity from Book of Enoch; I was more referring entities such as Semyaza and Azazael, etc., though the Cutlus Sabbati does work heavily with Lilith.
Chumbley uses the infernal elemental powers for the corners, rather than the Archangels, so: Asael, Azazael, Zhamiel, and Mahazhael, so two from Enoch, one from Sefer Raziel, and one entity from Mandaean lore.
>>17825787
Oh, look, the tripcode guy is a nigfag
>amazed surprise
>>17827180
How familiar are you with Lilith and her symbolism? I had a really weird dream about her that was apparently full of her symbolism, and symbolism of the Kabbalah before I'd learned anything more than her name.
>>17827007
I'll make your own customized bullshit
>>17827366
Pretty familiar.
>>17827392
Well, mind giving this dream a once-over for me and tell me what'cha think? I wrote the details down as soon as I woke up.
>>17827396
I dunno what I can do for you but sure.
>>17827430
I dunno, if you could give me a general idea of what the dream is supposed to mean, that'd be awesome. I'm not terribly well-read on Lilith.
(In this dream, I was running from a man that wished to kill me - in my effort to escape, I'd picked up a female companion. We came upon a giant tree, easily a hundred feet high, with long, snaking branches large enough to support a horse. The branches were largely bare, but had small sections with many pink leaves that seemed to constantly rain down on us. The moon was high and full, and my companion said, "This is a message from Lilith, she has chosen us to speak with. She has given us the key, we must look for the door." Later in the dream, I searched for a door - I climbed a building attached to the tree's trunk, and down into the trunk, which had been hollowed out into a hallway. I took a skeleton key from my pocket and unlocked an old door in this hallway, and a slot in the door opened up. Reaching inside, I wothdrew a letter that I felt familiar with - I could not see the contents, however. Just then, an old, wounded man limping with a cane - bleeding from the fresh wound in his leg - came hobbling through a door that led down further into the trunk. "There you are! We've been in here for ages!" He croaked. Then I woke up.
[I feel the tree is symbolic of the Jewish tree of life, as Lilith's domain is Malkuth, the "trunk" of the tree of life. Some of her symbolism includes keys, books, hidden knowledge - I was aware of none of this when I had this dream.] )
>>17827458
>I was running from a man that wished to kill me
Mahazhael of the Mask of Death and/or Samael, depending on timeframe of mythic source.
>We came upon a giant tree, easily a hundred feet high, with long, snaking branches large enough to support a horse
World Ash.
>The moon was high and full, and my companion said, "This is a message from Lilith, she has chosen us to speak with. She has given us the key, we must look for the door."
Eyuh, Lilith rules the moon in extremity, full and new.
But yeah, it seems more or less Kabbalistically correct. Pink's odd, at least not on the Queen scale.
In the end I'd say it's a very low-level transmission related to Lilith. I'd put little stock in it (I mean, it's a dream) but explore further.
>>17827482
That's actually really helpful. Know any good resources I can use to research this further?
>>17824400
yes
>>17827514
http://jewishchristianlit.com//Topics/Lilith/lilsam.html
http://jewishchristianlit.com//Topics/Lilith/queen.html#PARDES_186
Eve and Adam: Jewish, Christian, and Muslim Readings on Genesis and Gender
By Kristen E. Kvam, Linda S. Schearing, Valarie H. Ziegler
Wikipedia.
>>17824400
I believe the culture and the rituals are real, but I don't think they actually do anything. It's probably on the same level of herbal remedies, it can do small things but it's not magic.
I wish it were real, but in my experience it's not.
>>17826952
No one gets a therapist unless they need it. Lying piece of shit.
>>17828389
Shhh, let him believe.
>>17824400
Of course. Yes.
>>17825658
BTFO
Been to a few "covens" Wicca, asatru, your general neo-pagan and in my experience, no, the magic is not real.
I think its more about the community and nature worship to most of them. Only a small handful of the hundreds of pagans I have talked to actually believe in the magiks.
>>17827514
I recommend two resources:
Liber Lilith:
https://www.amazon.com/Liber-Lilith-Grimoire-Donald-Tyson/dp/0954388798
Lilith, Goddess of Sitra Achra
https://www.amazon.com/Lilith-Goddess-Sitra-Daemon-Barzai/dp/1511792353
>>17824400
This kind of thing is like the best way to get yourself into the proper mindset for magic shit.
>>17825987
I once knew a guy who was really good at sandwich craft.
>>17825818
w-what is this?
>>17829643
The genuine article.
i am writing a story set in the Mediterranean area and want to add some rituals, banishing etc. preferably done by 1-3 persons.
do you have recommendations?
>>17824400
Druid here.
It's real, but takes years of practice to master.
Unfortunately teenage sex witches botch everything and make it look bad.
New to magick.
Any suggestions for beginners?
>>17829871
>get naked
>jerk off innawoods
>>17828834
>Liber Lilith
This is actually not too bad.
>Lilith, Goddess of Sitra Achra
1) Ew.
2) Technically speaking I'd imagine Eisheth would be the goddess of the Klipot, given she's the ruling spirit of Sathariel, but I'd not expect the Current 218 folks to be up on their traditional Hebrew mysticism.
I take part in an all-female gathering and the solstice twice a year. Been dong it since high school, less about real witchcraft and more about elaborate psychodrama, but very great experiences nontheless.
>>17828834
Liber Lilith is a fiction novel, for a start, so not a resource.
>>17830845
Sure is, save Tyson, generally speaking, knows what he's on about and is a half competent ritualist. Tyson claims that the actual core of the book was dream-related, and he wrote it down on successive nights, figuring that since it's not a historical document like his Enochian handbook, he could wrap the core in fiction and leave it at that.
The fiction is meh. The "grimoire" is middling, but the sexual magick info is working, as are the rites and seals.
One can easily rework the material to fit into a normative Lemegeton styled practice or your own personal elaborations.
At least, that's if I'm thinking of the correct text, can't seem to find my copy of Liber Lilith in the library cloud or at home; re-dl'ing to verify the operative portions of the book (again).
>>17830871
Eyup, the invokations mirror material like Samekh or GMP fairly well, though not quite, and uses a witch-jug in order to render Lilith in iconostasis.
Also, the sexual operations appear rooted in actual talismanic use of sexual fluid.
I'd still tinker with it quite a bit, though.
>>17830491
>achra
I had accidentally added a "c". Not all of the provided essays are after an anti-cosmic fashion. They deal with Lilith in Her many faces, from Spider Queen to Night Hag to Initiatory Guide.
>218 not caught up on traditional Hebrew mysticism
From what I have read, the 218 deals with Qliphothic magic through a mostly esoteric lens. Their paradigm mildly reflects the origin narrative of a Rabbi Nathan. They write in Sitra Achra:
>"The source we owe most to and with whom our insight concerning the Qliphoth is the closest and most in harmony with is Rabbi Nathan of Gaza, being the elevated prophet of Sabbatai Zevi, who first concretised the concept of the Dual Light of Creation and Anti-Creation, which is a central part of the actual foundation upon which the structures of our own system are based. While we pay homage to the legacy of both Sabbatai Zei and his Prhophet because of what their wisdom has inspired us to find, it is again important, for the sake of clarity, to underline that our path is not that of the so-called Sabatian Heresy, as those brethren of light, unlike us, never followed that Other Light of Thoughtlessness..."
>"The students partaking of this our Book of Sitra Achra, being the First Grimoire of the Dragons of the Other Side, should take care to not confuse familiar forms also employed by outsiders with the more 'alien essences' that they within this context serve to bridge over to and channel Spirit from, as even if the terminology here utilised seems familiar and derived from older known sources they are urged to seek the Tradition-Specific Essences they serve to embody in accordance with our Chaosophic and Anti-Cosmic Context, Ethos and Spiritual Current."
>>17830845
>fiction novel
It is Lilithian gnosis presented through a fictitious window. Tyson was unsure on how to best frame it. I also recommend Clavicula Nox, Lilith, issue 4. http://waningmoon.com/publications/clavicula-nox-issue-iv-–-lilith.html
>>17830939
>Rabbi Nathan of Gaza
Then it's rather hilarious how badly they mangle the very concept of the Klipoth; these aren't spirits that are to evoked, they are the web of habit structures which inhibit spiritual progression. This interpretation runs through Nathan, through Scholem, Kaplan, and finally David Chaim Smith.
>the sabbateans never followed the light of thoughtlessness
Oh, so that's why Rabbi Nathan abrogated all Talmudic law and gave rise to the first iteration of Hebrew antinomianism?
Also, Ain/Ain Soph, etc., are not anticosmic ideas.
What Current 218 doesn't crib from Grant they crib from Chumbley - both poorly. Ford does a better job at synchretizing Chumbley's ideas, and that's saying a lot about the stiffness of 218's work.
>>17830794
Do you get naked for it?
>>17831278
yes, we do the whole naked thing. It's actually incredibly fun.
>>17830973
>mangle the concept of Klipoth
>not anticosmic ideas
When 218 incorporates certain vernacular, it is not necessarily the wide-spread concept itself they are seeking to convey but a word that carries in itself a model of essential transference. Constructs act as bridges to a source, used in a way more immediately available and conceivable than a completely alien set of phrases dependent upon a divergent philosophy. When I see them say they are inspired by Nathan, it comes to my mind that they are speaking of primarily the duality and conception of Sitra Ahra/the Other Side and Sephirot/Creation in a cosmic/anti-cosmic framework.
>Gave rise to the first iteration of Hebrew antinomianism
What I understand is that the Sabbatean heresy propagated that its believers needed to descend into sin in order to conquer it. It was a sort of ascetic mindlessness to achieve harmony with the inner divinity. However, it was heralded by messianism.
Using their language: While undoubtedly antinomian, a principle difference between the Thoughtful activity of the Sabbateans is that they were seeking to reconcile with the Divine Cosmic Creator, whereas the Thoughtlessness of 218 aims towards the "Eternal Void of Unlimited and Unrestricted Potential". 218 has the Divine Void with its abysmal seeds trapped within all clayform that seeks the return unto itself, whereas the Sabbateans had the Divine Creator which emanates in a particular herald, a subtle but distinct concept that separates itself from the other.
>>17830845
All this stuff is fictional. That's irrelevant though. It's your personal belief and will that matters. Summoning demons, leaving a bowl of milk on your back porch for the piskies at night, accepting Jesus Christ as your personal lord and savior, whatever, these are all just abstractions to help you to use your belief to exert your will upon the world around you. Pray to Homer Simpson if you wish, so long as you truly believe at that moment, thy will shall be done. Maybe. At least so long as it doesn't violate the laws of physics. If you try to violate physics you're just gonna end up looking, and feeling foolish. That's ok too. It'll teach you humility, and how to laugh at yourself.
>>17824400
what's real is in the mind
