How does /x/ rate Aleister Crowley's books for authenticity and for imparting real occult knowledge?
Ape is that you?
If it isn't wait for him, he fucking loves the guy.
His take on word magick and the rethorical manipulation of the situations it's amazing.
Don't read all of his work as it's real, read his works as it's aplying it to you.
Don't let the madman play with your head.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4PDOi9COoxk
Have a song for your troubles.
It works every damn rock musician that applied it got rich and famous
The eye the eye everywhere the eye
>>17757836
Can anybody give me a book (not satanic) that has occult practices? I want to learn powerful magic.
Why doesn't /x/ ever respond to good threads??
>>17758056
I'm waiting for all the other knowledgeable anons to post first. Don't want to ruin the thread with my obscure beliefs.
>>17758055
Spoiler alert: magic isn't real
>>17758061
Please share my thoughts are weird and obscure as well
>>17758124
But I kind of have this god thing going on. Gods are terribly boring and disempowering in most cases. Like, I'm just omnipotent. That's the whole of my beliefs. It doesn't get more interesting than that. There's literally zero depth to the premise. It's fucking boring no matter how you try to spin it.
>>17757836
0/10 the man was a drugged out con artist who got high and made shit up. Now that I think about it he would be right at home on /x.
>>17758055
Go back to school and get an education its a far better use of your time than chasing magic that is not real.
>>17758310
I mean this in all seriousness...he wrote a shit ton of books. That is a lot to make up and be consistent with?
>>17758066
In a sense very true but it is very real
this is better than crowley
>>17758551
cuz your moms blowjobs
Crowley was very influential to the whole occultist movement, the book of law is definitely one of the most important pieces of literature regarding this subject.
His other works of fiction like moonchild aren't as important nor as highly regarded but are nevertheless interesting reads if you are into the genre.
>>17758703
so they are all readable and you get something out of each book
>>17757836
He was initiated in a fuckton of esoteric lodges, so he might as well have known something. In other words if Crowley isn't legit then western occultism as a whole isn't too.
>>17759307
Its not. And goetia will ruin your life
>>17758671
I ask for an objective comment regarding the work of Mather's and I get a child who giggles. The question stands. Why?
>>17757836
8/10, at least. It really depends upon the book and the time period in which he wrote.
>>17759318
I don't see how you say goetia will ruin your life if you assert that all of western occultism isn't legitimate.
>>17757836
Depends on which books you're talking about. A quick trip to Wikipedia shows how prolific of an author he was.
In terms of generalities about the quality of any given text? About 7/10. Higher if you know what you're looking at and where to look.
>>17759590
It has the potential of fucking you up, if you're unprepared for it.
As a person that's skimmed over a few pdf's I can say right off the bat that anybody who reads his works rigorously and takes them seriously would most certainly undergo psychological changes and a form of mental isolation where you begin to think on the meaning of things you hadn't before. By doing this, he initiates a form of breakdown-restructure of your mind and only you can preserve yourself from exactly what he tells you. To really get his work, avoid being mislead -which I don't think he intends or 'unintends' for you to become- you need to have a fixed understanding of science. As in, you need to actually know full-well how a scientific experiment is conducted. That doesn't mean you need to read a science book.
If you can't grasp the importance of that, you'll find yourself in an antisocial down spiral, the stupefied version of a mystic or hermit.
If you can grasp it, then lets hope our paths don't cross.
If you already have social problems and stumbled onto his works, please put it down.
>>17757885
9/10
>>17757994
3/10
>>17758030
9/10
>>17758056
6/10
>>17758124
8/10, 10/10 for the Germer/Motta edition you posted.
>>17758385
Together? 5/10, and that's only because of 777. White Stains is for horny. There's almost nothing occult in EQ 3:10, it's a power consolidation thing Breeze did.
>>17758316
But Crowley got a good education from a good school and pursued his interests anyway.
>>17758512
Mathers is not better than AC, one only has to look through the papers of both to grok this.
>>17759488
Grant's books are lower on the scale. 7/10 at best. Unreadable trash at worst.
>>17759539
Spare's great, if only he would have caged his Crowley hate boner and wrote a couple more books.
>>17759561
AC's wealthier benefactors deserve a book of their own. His time with the 7th Earl of Tankerville was pretty neat too.
>>17759603
AC's texts aren't the Necronomicon.
I'd agree with needing a sound basis in the experimental method; indeed, AC himself harps on it in Magick in Theory and Practice. That said, dude's books are not going to drive you crazy like some Lovecraft story; hundreds of thousands have read AC's texts in some form or another...huge amounts of academic material is produced around the guy and given how much of it is simply comparative religion focused I'd say a good chunk of those master and PhD candidates also can't into experimental design.
>>17759603
>the stupefied version of a mystic or hermit.
kek
>>17759603
This is to an extend, why i always had a ''fear'' of AC's book. I dont say i will go mad, but it sounds extremely similar to a religion of sorts and that is not exactly what i am looking for.
Am i too wrong by assuming this? and i say assuming because i admit i have not read any of his work. It just seems to fit the profile of a cult though.
>>17759606
So...
1. Did Crowley ever translate the Sefer Yetzirah (3rd - 6th cent) or Sepher Zohar (Moses de Leon 1280-1286) himself? If not, what translations of these works did he rely on?
2. Did Crowley ever reference the work of Reuchlin (On the Art of the Cabala (1517)) or Agrippa (Three Books... (1533)) in his work or did he rely on later authors? (i.e. Concerning the Christian Cabala, did he question what information was given to him? Did he attempt to source check the material using older documents? If so, what evidence is there to support this?)
3. Is it fair to compare Mathers and Crowley? Mathers was a polyglot and prolific translator. Crowley was a charismatic entertainer and prolific author. They are also of different generations.
4. This one is of personal interest. What is your (Mr. Ape or other Anon) opinion about the rift between Crowley and Regardie?
>>17759606
Why is it necessary to make a post this long reply to every poster? Do you know how fucking annoying that it
>>17759613
>huge amounts of academic material is produced around the guy
[citation need]
Wow. You're talking scholarly peer reviewed material, right? That is what academic means, right?
Could you provide a Bibliography of said (huge amount) of academic material?
Please.
(Be bold dude. This is not bait. A bibliography of the scholarly research on Crowley. Not just some author making a buck writing about Crowley. Not passing citations but actual thesis papers or other post-graduate and/or post-doctoral work on Crowley. The value of said Bibliography would immense (since no one has ever come out and spoken of HUGE AMOUNTS of academic material before (like ever)). Please...)
It would be GOD-TIER material
>>17759897
>1. Did Crowley ever translate the Sefer Yetzirah (3rd - 6th cent) or Sepher Zohar (Moses de Leon 1280-1286) himself? If not, what translations of these works did he rely on?
No.
I'm unsure.
It also appears that AC had access to seriously obscure bits of Luranic/Zoharic lore that were not common topics in the GD.
>Agrippa
Yes, often. Not so much with Reuchlin, though I could be entirely wrong.
>Concerning the Christian Cabala, did he question what information was given to him? Did he attempt to source check the material using older documents? If so, what evidence is there to support this?
Yes, not exactly sure though one would presume.
>3. Is it fair to compare Mathers and Crowley? Mathers was a polyglot and prolific translator.
Not particularly. FWIW AC had linguistic tendencies as well, but not as strong as Mathers.
>opinion about the rift between Crowley and Regardie
Autism, particularly considering AC painted Regardie's worldview so heavily that Regardie entered AC's conjectures on the overarching goals of the Golden Dawn as doctrinal fact (i.e. the notion that Augoeides and the HGA are one in the same).
>>17760035
Takes ten seconds to look up academic material through your universities journal proxy, man. Pic related. That's peer reviewed journals only, btw. Doesn't count theses, dissertations, or academic books.
>>17759985
Are you seriously triggered by my post formatting for a quick series of 'out of ten' reviews of book covers posted ITT?
Would you have preferred ten or so individual replies?
>>17757836
Only read Diary of a Drug Fiend but I think it explains how Thelema works when applied, I haven't read any occult thing from him but the perspective he gives in the story is helpful to understand his train of thought.
I would like to know any anecdotes of him doing some crazy shit not orgies or rituals just amazing and down to earth stuff, please share if you know works that have that.
>>17760066
You didn't provide an answer. There are numerous people who come here who have no access to University Proxies. These people come here, to these threads, and look upon you as a supposed expert on this material. I didn't ask for a University Server Bibliography, I asked for yours.
>>17760093
>93
Are you seriously asking me to go through all 900+ items, transcribe the lookup info, and post it all?
Y'all are lucky I put in as much work as I do on the library for you folks. I have a small handful of those (the Brill/Aries journal material, plus another journal whose name I cannot recall) in the mega.
> I didn't ask for a University Server Bibliography, I asked for yours.
>>17760035
>a Bibliography
>A bibliography
>said Bibliography
>>17760090
More like a relatively early idealization of how it should work.
>>17759613
>I'd agree with needing a sound basis in the experimental method; indeed, AC himself harps on it in Magick in Theory and Practice.
Can you expand on this? I'm afraid I know little of the experimental method. What are the dangers of practicing magic without this sort of grounding? Is writing notes in a journal on magic you've attempted to perform sufficient?
>>17757966
who's the madman?
Also, where should I begin? regarding his works.
>>17760171
Magick in Theory and Practice:
>Ch. V
>The Formula of I.A.O.
Thus, he is Man made God, exalted, eager; he has come consciously to his full stature, and so is ready to set out on his journey to redeem the world. But he may not appear in this true form; the Vision of Pan would drive men mad with fear. He must conceal Himself in his original guise. He therefore becomes apparently the man that he was at the beginning; he lives the life of a man; indeed, he is wholly man. But his initiation has made him master of the Event by giving him the understanding that whatever happens to him is the execution of this true will. Thus the last stage of his initiation is expressed in our formula as the final:
Digamma --- The series of transformations has not affected his identity; but it has explained him to himself. Similarly, Copper is still Copper after
Cu+O = CuO:+H SO =CuS O(H O):+K S=CuS(K SO ):
2 4 4 2 2 2 4 + blowpipe and reducing agent = Cu(S).
It is the same copper, but we have learnt some of its properties. We observe especially that it is indestructible, inviolably itself throughout all its adventures, and in all its disguises. We see moreover that it can only make use of its powers, fulfill the possibilities of its nature, and satisfy its equations, by thus combining with its counterparts. Its existence as a separate substance is evidence of its subjection to stress; and this is felt as the ache of an incomprehensible yearning until it realises that every experience is a relief, an expression of itself; and that it cannot be injured by aught that may befall it. In the Aeon of Osiris it was indeed realised that Man must die in order to live. But now in the Aeon of Horus we know that every event is a death; subject and object slay each other in "love under will"; each such death is itself life, the means by which one realises oneself in a series of episodes.
>>17759864
>Am i too wrong by assuming this?
To some extent, yes. Even his religious elements have philosophical interpretations. Crowley's repeated message is actually don't believe. Go find out for yourself.
>>17760178
>Also, where should I begin?
Depends, what's your reason for doing so?
Mysticism? Libri 333, then 65, then 7.
Practicum? Magick in Theory and Practice then Magick without Tears.
Experiments with drugs? The Herb Dangerous and Ethyl Oxide.
Philosophy? The Gospel of St. Bernard Shaw and (*maybe*) Berashith.
Secret societies? The Secret Rituals of the OTO/OTO Rituals and Sex Magick.
>>17760196
Thank you.
I just want to achieve a better version of me.
And somehow, improve the lives of those whom surround me.
>>17760171
>What are the dangers of practicing magic without this sort of grounding?
The danger is misleading yourself through a misinterpretation of your results. For example, I encountered a very earnest fellow not long ago who believed he was working the Enochian aethyrs. He was absolutely certain that he was wandering around in the 5th aethyer because of all the five-related coincidences he saw everywhere he looked.
The question, logically, is not whether this is what one might expect to see, if successful. The question is whether this fellow might be seeing fives everywhere, even if he wasn't even close.
And the answer is, yes, he is likely to see them everywhere, if that is what he expects to see. It's an example of confirmation bias.
>>17760178
>who's the madman?
Crowley and the commenter is speaking metaphorically, I suspect.
>>17760178
>Also, where should I begin?
Magick Without Tears, may be a good place to start, as it's one of his best works. He wrote it at the end of his life, so he knew quite a bit about his subject and had firmed up his thinking a great deal.
Magick in Theory and Practice, is probably his masterwork. There's plenty in there for both the beginning student and the advanced adept alike. Just don't worry too much about the parts you don't understand, at first, and lay what you do understand to heart.
great thread
>>17760218
Hey,
>>17760217 here, just downloaded "Magick without tears" to read after "Magick in Theory and Practice", and in the first page it says:
Complete and Unabridged, edited with a Foreword by Karl J. Germer
Is it okay, or should I look into another version?
Thanks!
>>17760453
Nope, that's the edition you actually want.
AC redacted a handful of letters from the original text. One of Germers' few acts as OHO was to slip them back in.
>>17760461
Thanks a lot.
>>17760479
my pleasure
bumpity to learn moar
god dang you fuckers talk about this!!!!!
>>17761080
?
>>17760776
Gonna have to ask questions to learn about the topic, broham.
what was the babylon working?
who were the scarlett woman?
>>17761123
>what was the babylon working?
A series of failed (?) workings of Enochian material in order to facilitate contact with Babalon and possibly produce a Moonchild. The main operating participants were John "Jack" Whiteside Parsons, Lafeytte Ron Hubbard (Under the name "Frater H"), and Sarah Northrup, who went on to be LRH's second wife (Northrup was the sister of Parsons' then wife, Helen, iirc).
Presumably, Northrup was to be the Scarlet Woman...(Interestingly, Helen Parsons later became Helen Parsons-Smith, married to W.T. Smith, Crowley's "Unknown God" whom taught Germer the grade structure of the OTO), but she bolted off with Hubbard just before Marjorie Cameron appeared.
In Parsons' records, he implies he re-took the Enochian work in a more correct format and swore himself with the Oath of the Master of the Temple with Smith as his witness.
Then he blew himself into a tattered rag.
oh wowwwwww...
>>17761269
What precisely is a moon child?????
>>17761487
To my weak understanding of something AC was never 110% explicit about, the child of the union of two skilled occultists who are attempting to use sexual rites for astral purposes...in short, the peak time for this sort of congress would be at the peak of the menstrual cycle on the bleeding days; impregnation at the peak of bleeding days is exceedingly rare. Saivists would hold that children produced from what would normally be a sterile operation save residual astral effects (see the ninth and eleventh degrees OTO) are said to be more products of the intent of the operation than genetics.
This is one of the reasons Crowley was so pissed at Parsons' fumbling about - Jack obviously had no idea what he was attempting in trying to coalesce Babalon into a physical incarnation.
>>17761510
Thanks for the in depth answers anon.
Do you think his system is what makes musicians go to the next level like Led Zepplin and such?
>>17761510
And also dumb questions...
What is "Babylon" to Crowley?
Was Crowley actually powerful in the ability to do harmful magic sense?
Did Crowley work for or against Britain in WW2?
I'm asking questions...but no one answers?
>>17761735
>What is "Babylon" to Crowley?
You mean Babalon? A powerful feminine entity residing deep within the Enochian Aethyrs who seems to have some affinity for Lilith and Barbelo.
>>17761816
In WW2? For. Same with WWI. He wrote pro-German agitprop from America during WWI under funds and direction from the Crown (probably).
>>17761863
Ape could she also be Isis and Aphrodite? I'm fascinated by the goddesses...what are they and what do they want
I'm very layman so far with Crowley what is Aether? The spirit world?
I have so many questions about Crowley and the mythology around him
>>17761876
>Isis
Maybe.
>Aphrodite
Rather unlikely.
>Aethyrs
A division of reality as asserted by Dee and Kelley's Enochian experiments.
>>17761888
What is the purpose of Crowley's magick system knowledge or power?
Is this the same Enoch from the Book of Enoch when we say "Enochian"?
Thanks for the answers!
>>17761888
Does Crowley have an opinion or affinity to Lucifer?
While not an avid believer in the occult, I have always had a minor interest in the subject.
I believe (for no real concrete reason) that Crowley was a huckster, selling what little he was able to ween from "proper" occultist organization just to make a profit.
I'm not going to defend my point, as it is, more or less, baseless, and just the opinion of an individual unlearned, and uninitiated in magickal doctrine.
So Crowley was a satanist right?
Also Paul Ellis you satanic, child abusing, child rapist fuck head, if you're here just know your time will come.
>>17761888
Also really fascinated to know if his systems help in the creation of music like Jimmy Page and other adherants
>>17761911
Almost none, the passage I posted from the Formula of I.A.O. is directly related to notions of the Devil Card as placed on the Tree of Life.
Crowley thought Satan was a thing, there, but not to be adored or hated. Just sorta there, needing to be dealt with.
>>17761945
>and just the opinion of an individual unlearned, and uninitiated in magickal doctrine.
It shows!
Look over his wikipedia page, that'd be a good start to forming an opinion. It's huge, but pretty well neutral.
You're not going to get an objective view on the guy from his detractors or OTO biographers. It's somewhere between and worlds more interesting than what a second hand author has to say when you're elbow deep in the Yorke Microfilms.
>>17761950
Not at all. Indicate to me his Satanic doctrines. Reference a microfilm reel for me or something because as it stands, because of all of direct AC's writing on Satan appears to be able to fit on like three pages, and that's being generous.
You got the comment in M:TP, the comment in The Book of Thoth, a few stanzas in Liber 333, a pair of sentences in what amounts to fiction, the comment at the end of Liber Samekh, and after that a couple of nods in a small handful of rituals.
>>17761951
If you want occultism in music I'd be paying more attention to John Zorn or Danny Carey.
>>17761955
ahhhh...
So dealt with as in appeased or defeated?
Was that also how he saw Yahweh?
Was Crowley truly into human sacrifice? I've read both yes and no in different places
Was any God authentic to Crowley?
>>17761970
I will check those two out.
Were rock musicians fooling themselves then by incorporating Crowley into the music?
>>17761977
>So dealt with as in appeased or defeated?
Neither, I just said that.
As in figure out what to do with the red elephant in the room. If anything it's "passing through" more than overcoming or placating.
>>17760187
>The series of transformations has not affected his identity; but it has explained him to himself. Similarly, Copper is still Copper after.
>YHVH
No, YHVH is more of an elemental formula and an expression of physical maturation.
>Was Crowley truly into human sacrifice? I've read both yes and no in different places
No, and anyone asserting otherwise is a moron or attempting to sell you something. AC wrote about one theoretical IRL sacrifice he devised with Neuberg but never carried out, it was a model for a sophisticated curse. The references to child sacrifice actually mean intercourse with no conception, be it masturbation or emission with a bleeding woman or another man.
>Was any God authentic to Crowley?
Ra-Hoor-Khuit, Hadit, & Nuit. Alternatively, Babalon and Pan/Chaos.
Crowley was a positive entity who mistakenly believed he was on the negative path. He'll heal up and try again.
>>17761994
Point out to me where Page incorporated AC into his music.
As far as I understand it was almost entirely a personal matter.
On the other hand you could track down Mike Magee on any social network he's on and ask him about Page yourself, Magee worked in Page's bookstore, if I recall.
>>17762014
>mistakenly believed he was on the negative path
?
So for like the xth time this thread I'll ask for a citation for this from his published or unpublished works.
There appears to be no sense of seeking spiritual "darkness" in any of his worldview after meeting with Waite and getting a copy of Cloud on the Sanctuary by Eckhartshausen.
>>17762015
I only say that because I believe I read from Page where he stated that's how he created his music but that he wasn't going to be specific. Page stated that he expected each musician to find the secrets for themselves as he wasn't going to tell them.
This is my memory so I can't swear that he said that exactly...
>>17757836
>Crowley
Horribly.
Explain why this short write up is wrong please, if you have time. Crowley confuses me,
http://www.henrymakow.com/aleister_crowley.html
Excerpt:
IN SUMMARY
There can be little doubt that Aleister Crowley considered himself to be the physical incarnation of the Great Beast 666 foretold in the Bible, and that congruent with this thought, Crowley worshiped Baphomet, the goat-headed god long associated with Satan, while also considering Aiwas, his spiritual guide, to be a direct manifestation of his Satanic Holy Guardian Angel.
>>17762058
I'm curious too. He did use terms like calling himself the Beast if I am correct?
>>17762058
>There can be little doubt that Aleister Crowley considered himself to be the physical incarnation of the Great Beast 666 foretold in the Bible, and that congruent with this thought, Crowley worshiped Baphomet, the goat-headed god long associated with Satan, while also considering Aiwas, his spiritual guide, to be a direct manifestation of his Satanic Holy Guardian Angel.
His mom called him The Beast. It stuck. Afterward he took up 666 because of it's gematria. I can find no indication he ever worshiped Baphomet as such, particularly he took that name as a motto.
Again, I'll ask for a citation on him thinking the HGA was a Satanic entity. The words "Holy Guardian Angel" come from the Abramelin working.
Is Ape gone?
>>17762164
Who was Chronozon?
I feel it may be the same being that appeared to Carlos Santana as "Metatron"
I just feel like music is intertwined tight with Crowley
Also who is William Wallace Webb?
Man it was a good conversation going...
>>17760187
>Cu+O = CuO:+H SO =CuS O(H O):+K S=CuS(K SO ):
>2 4 4 2 2 2 4 + blowpipe and reducing agent = Cu(S).
Firstly, let me say that my respect for Crowley has just shot through the roof. Secondly, I find it exciting that I independently started writing spiritual texts which feature chemical reactions. Thirdly, let me confess to being a druggie with a plate of weed in my lap - similar to Crowley.
>http://freetexthost.com/esa55aoe6p
Currently, this essay has no name. It's part of a series, all of which detail my spiritual form; a 'Soma.' An internet search got me this;
>http://www.sacred-texts.com/oto/aba/chap5.htm
>Thus, he is Man made God, exalted, eager; he has come consciously to his full stature, and so is ready to set out on his journey to redeem the world. But he may not appear in this true form; the Vision of Pan would drive men mad with fear.
That's exactly how it feels. I can't stand being in a human body - I have to express my godform. The Empusae must rise, and revenge themselves against Perseus.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QW0j0xhYmZc
He was a puppet.
All life is enslaved and is meant to be enslaved.
Locked in the stocks, arms chained by gravity.
Opened and out stretched, imprisoned.
Embarrassed and naked. We are slaves.
But there is a keeper of keys as there is strength within.
Hail the force of Satan and free yourself of sin.
Light your fire to guide you into the abyss of Da'at
and gaze beyond the veil of death.
Under penalty of life, we run through our course.
Chaos breaks us free when we face our demise.
When one gazes into darkness, there is light.
It is sight beyond sight, the sun cannot blind.
But there is a keeper of keys as there is strength within.
Hail the force of Satan and free yourself of sin.
Light your fire to guide you into the abyss of Da'at
and gaze beyond the veil of death.
Rebellious posturing.
Adversarial conjuring.
Vulgar full moon madness
raging until the end.
The freedom of death is sought
after the war is bought.
Total annihilation.
Seeking out completion.
...and the end of this
and all things
that weigh the spirit down.
Salvation from the living hell.
Release from the bonds of flesh.
>>17759318
Did your pastor tell you this..?
>>17759490
Why this nigga got horns?
Just like a Freemason temple.
Ignorant question. How close is the Golden Dawn related to Freemasonry. Also why are two pillars always so prominent?
>>17762371
I prefer Heroine myself honestly...
>>17757836
I'm pretty much him, in another incarnation and the guiding light behind the A.'. A.'. Order.
>>17762420
Well please explain to me...what is the Golden Day and the Aeon of Horus?
I want to understand.
Is that why the music industry flashes all the Golden Dawn signs? They want to bring it forth?
>>17762437
The Golden Dawn was for all intents and purposes a magic order that laid the groundwork for the Aeon of Horus. They along with the Theosophical Society and Freemasonry were the driving force behind it.
The Aeon of Horus is the Third after the Aeons of Isis and Osiris. Isis was a goddess archetype and the spirituality was of a rather base nature, while Osiris was a god of death and rebirth. You could probably call them mythological cycles, but they are connected to things like Wicca and Christianity by the associations of the god/goddess. Wicca was a re-affirming of the previous spiritual darkness found in the AoI. In other words a huge step backwards. The Aeon of Horus, especially that of the Crowned and Conquering Child will be one of absolute liberty. Do what thou wilt. Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law. This is in Liber AL vel Legis, the book that helped to lay all this out.
>>17762483
Fascinating...
Is this a desirable state? Will there be actual "Gods" around during this Aeon?
Do anything we want as in rape murder steal? Or is it peaceful...it sounds to good to be true if we are supposed to be all enlightened and peace loving...what would change us ?
Thanks for your answers
>>17761510
wasnt there also some kind of convergence of destiny theory or something to that effect involved with the whole moonchild thing? its been a while since i heard the whole thing, but it boiled down to people in several different "realities" or dimensions all synchronizing up to force a big ritual, that opens a door for an ascended being that is basically a extremely overpowered god that is under their control.
basically gozer from ghostbusters that is friendly to the ritual workers and no one else.
>>17762420
You know what? I'll bite.
What makes the anniversary of his marriage, The Feast of the Prophet and His Bride, significant enough to merit a 'holiday' of sorts for Thelemites?
>>17762520
The Aeon of Horus will be based on Do what thou wilt in the sense that man will still act properly by a knowledge of balance - both within himself and externally. People in some ways are capable of this, but we have yet to see it fully. We only see people who are incapable of doing their true wills and this is why it seems impossible.
>>17762552
Previous prophets and saints were honored on their birthdays and even the day they died. The death obsession was a huge part of the religions that were part of the Aeon of Osiris - since it emphasized the death and resurrection of every person. In the New Aeon, but specifically in Thelema, there is no specific dogma as to what death means. Death can lead to many places, but the idea of one being "right" hardly fits.
Also, the two feasts are particularly relevant to the Gnostic Mass of the Ecclesia Gnostica Catholica.
>>17762538
Any more info on this thought?
Very very very interested...
Moar on Crowley's Master Therion please???
>>17759985
You're a dick
who is Therion?
>>17761190
>Then he blew himself into a tattered rag.
"Where is Parson's crater, anyway?"
"Which one?"
>>17761725
>Do you think his system is what makes musicians go to the next level like Led Zepplin and such?
Jimmy Page was using magic to further his musical goals, yes.
>>17761876
>Ape could she also be Isis and Aphrodite?
Inanna seems more likely.
>>17761905
>What is the purpose of Crowley's magick system knowledge or power?
Knowledge is power and knowledge of self the most powerful of all.
>Is this the same Enoch from the Book of Enoch when we say "Enochian"?
Yes. When the angels delivered this particular magical system to John Dee and Edward Kelly, they said that it was the magic given to Enoch before the Great Deluge.
>>17761945
>I'm not going to defend my point, as it is, more or less, baseless
Indeed.
>>17761951
>Also really fascinated to know if his systems help in the creation of music like Jimmy Page and other adherants
Pretty sure this was made explicit in, Hammer of the Gods.
>>17762185
>Who was Chronozon?
Is. Mr C is the "mighty demon" of the Enochian system, residing principally in the 10th Aethyr:
>I feel it may be the same being that appeared to Carlos Santana as "Metatron"
Highly unlikely.
>Also who is William Wallace Webb?
One of C F Russell's students, I think.
>>17762371
>How close is the Golden Dawn related to Freemasonry.
It was created and run by Freemasons and its rituals were strongly influenced by the ideas of Masonic initiation rites.
>Also why are two pillars always so prominent?
Because they figured so prominently in Solomon's temple.
>>17762483
>They along with the Theosophical Society and Freemasonry were the driving force behind it.
Actually, the Golden Dawn was launched as a direct competitor of the TS.
> they are connected to things like Wicca and Christianity by the associations of the god/goddess.
Crowley's idea of successive aeons came directly from the Rev John Nelson Darby. It's probably not possible to separate Crowley from the Puritan Christianity in which he was steeped.
>>17763053
>who is Therion?
Crowley. Therion is Greek and means, "beast".
>>17763053
This is Therion.
>>17757966
well put
>>17763208
>Crowley's idea of successive aeons came directly from the Rev John Nelson Darby. It's probably not possible to separate Crowley from the Puritan Christianity in which he was steeped.
I mean, it's kinda hard to do much else when the best scholarship at the time is Gerald fucking Massey.
>>17758055
start with the mind-yours as well as others-
think of being a jet mechanic, if you cant get the dodge in your garage going,then you are wasting time and shouldnt bother-
I believe that all of it
the spiritual the actual the etheral the astral-they are under our control if we can control our mind-Majik is quite real in the sense that if you truely seek something or an outcome,focus your mind and it will be so
>>17757836
the man was a damn fine mountain climber-I believe that the chaos of his early youth in boarding school,rebelling against his parents and christianity etc,he found some sort of quiet peace on those peaks which allowed him untold contemplation giving him a sense of balance-if you look at the photographs of him in tibet at those times he looks peaceful and thoughtful like he achieved epiphany in those places-
who knows -
he was still an edgy faggit who liked to have sex with his mom and eat little kids
>>17763287
You realize, job training and education are a thing right? Your statement makes no sense.
>>17763270
Oh, indeed.
>>17763336
>he was still an edgy faggit who liked to have sex with his mom and eat little kids
Dumb and malicious. Not a pretty combination.
What makes Crowly stand out from other occultist? Magic isnt real that much is known right? I mean i am no skeptic i practice Tarot and other stuff yet i never get to understand what is tried to archive in other occult practices.
I mean with Tarot or divination i know what i am attempting to do, I try to get more information out of a situation. Whats the point of Magick?
Sorry for the vague question.
>>17763390
>Dumb and malicious.
It's really really easy to just regurgitate shit that hand wringing Christfags and conspiracy theorists spew.
see >>17762058
>>17760035
>>17760101
Well, give us at least some leads, or point us to some of the more interesting academic material,
or give us some author names.
It doesn't have to be rite nao, it doesn't even have to be in this same thread, but it'd be pretty cool.
>>17763426
>give us at least some leads
Sure.
Go to your nearest university library, or call them, and ask how much it would cost for a nonstudent membership with access to a journal proxy or online journal catalogs. Then, you may browse at your leisure instead of relying on a tripfag to take a a few hours from his day to transcribe shit you can access yourself.
>>17763456
Sigh.
I was expecting something along the lines of "Mr X and Ms Z have written interesting articles"
I didn't want you to take hours to transcribe anything. I already have to look for papers sometimes because of the university. Although I have never used such a catalogue.
I seriously hope next time someone asks you if you can tell them about a cool movie, your answer isn't something along the lines of "I'm not going to crawl through IMDB for three hours to write up ranked synopses for you, go there and do your own research"
:/
great thread finally understand crowley...
>>17762352
>Why you calling me a nigga and you ain't even a black - Some black person.
So who is Metatron then?
Who was Lam?
Are there many different entities with their own agendas?
Someone give me a tl;dr on Crowley's philosophy. I've read Magick in Theory and Practice and The Book of the Law. The majority of it seemed like hocus pocus to me. What practical results have you experienced using his techniques? (inb4 try it yourself and other excuses)
>>17764549
>So who is Metatron then?
Interesting question...if we buy the Book of Enoch then Metatron's the ascended spirit of Enoch himself just as Azrael as Angel of Death is an ascended form of the prophet Ezra as described in 2 Esdras most normally preserved in the Slavonic Orthodox Bible.
Lam, simply, is an astral entity and may have been an aspect of AC. AC didn't think much of Lam, it was Ken Grant who made a big deal of them.
>many with different agendas
Yes.
>>17764586
"Do what thou wilt". Seriously, that's it. You needn't even make it mystical, there are plenty of secular Thelemites out there.
>>17764697
>Do what thou wilt
I do like the simplicity. That said, a true free thinker doesn't need to be given a pass to do what they wilt, it's simply inherent in their nature. I would also appreciate if you could answer the second part of my question (in regard to practical mystical application)
>>17764718
>a true free thinker doesn't need to be given a pass
I don't view it as a pass or even directive. Moreover, "will" in this context as explained by AC in commentaries and other writings appears to mean 'True Will' which has overtones of predestination more than desire.
>it's simply inherent in their nature
I think that's rather the point of the various commentaries on Liber L.
>practical mystical application
If you want me to link you to a vid of Naberius manifesting out of the aethyr with horns and a pitchfork you'll be sorely disappointed.
Probably the most direct physical benefits of mysticism are inherent health benefits of yoga (as irrelevant as they may be to the goal of yoga), followed closely by application of the Art of Memory (i.e. a light form of astral projection or building "mental space" used to memorize huge blocks of info in, comparatively, short amounts of time; it's the shit Cicero used to memorize his speeches and Quinitilian for rhetorical purposes).
There's little thrill like shattering the curve in a grad archaeology course just because you sat for about 40 minutes the night before in sensorial contemplation
>>17764734
>Probably the most direct physical benefits of mysticism are inherent health benefits of yoga (as irrelevant as they may be to the goal of yoga), followed closely by application of the Art of Memory (i.e. a light form of astral projection or building "mental space" used to memorize huge blocks of info in, comparatively, short amounts of time; it's the shit Cicero used to memorize his speeches and Quinitilian for rhetorical purposes).
These sound like practical, albeit very material benefits. I must ask then, why all the strange language and mumbo jumbo?
>>17762371
Notice all the jew bullshit hanging on the walls. Those aren't 'masons' those are called born again jews.
>>17764973
>The Golden Dawn, derived almost directly from the SRIA, a Freemasonic appendant body
>"Born Again Jews"
Top fucking qeq.
>>17763413
Mainstream buddhism is a watered down exoteric version of esoteric practices commonly called high magic or the Great Work. So the point is liberation or gnosis or unifying with Shiva or whatever, more or less.
What makes Crowley stand out is the degree to which he compiled, compared, found concordance in, and syncretized practices from around the world. You don't really grasp it until you get tired of a thing or things and try to do it yourself. Then you see his genius and the breadth of his knowledge.
>>17763413
>Magic isnt real
>i practice Tarot
kill yourself
>>17764743
You're reading someone's personal aesthetic, the way they personally relate to it. Sometimes it is akin to philosophical language, seeking a precision. Other times it's meant to metaphorically allude to a thing that can't itself be described directly. Then you have the poetic aspect which speaks in an even more abstract way that aligns the reader with the writer to impart a direct experience and in doing so is more precise in its metaphorical abstractions than outright stating it. It bypasses intellectual understanding, which is actually antiethical to practice in most cases.
>>17763338
sticks and stones my friend-
have you ever been in a conversation with someone like a store clerk or a cop for instance-
and entering this conversation you had a specific agenda and maybe saw the other person as an obstacle between you and your goal? you can steer the conversation from the beginning with mild observations, distractions certain small talk and anecdotes-
Lead the conversation down whichever path you want it to go until theyve given you what you came for, willingly ill add. and against what they may have wanted to do. And when you walk away they reflect on what a pleasant exp it was.
it is failproof on those without patience and or weaker/distracted minds.That was my point.
if its done to deprive someone intentionally, then its called a bullshit con-
if its done right and intelligently it could be considered a form of majik-
would you not agree that its ALL about intent?
know yourself and how the brain allows us to interact within the grid before you go off trying to pull rabbits from your hat.im not a fukin guru. im always open to new ideas and approaches.i didnt know we were being graded here.its just an idea maybe a theory but it works for me.i forgive you.its easy to be a dik here-i hope you find what youre looking for
Sacrificing young male children is NOT okay. Magick in Theory and Practice condones sacrifices, and that is not cool.
>>17757836
Moonchild was a silly book, but people have undoubtedly tried to conceive and raise children according to those methods.
im a moonchild faggots
>>17765400
>Magick in Theory and Practice condones sacrifices, and that is not cool.
No, it does not.
>>17766629
cite where crowley condones...
>>17766881
>M:TP
>CHAPTER XII - OF THE BLOODY SACRIFICE: AND MATTERS COGNATE
>WEH ADDENDA: When Crowley speaks of sacrificing a male child, his diaries and other writings indicate that he thereby obfuscates the actual practice. Crowley did this by diversion of the act of sexual intercourse and other sexual actions. He considered contraception as human sacrifice. There is no indication in any of his writings that he ever performed infanticide. In fact, Crowley was even against abortion.
Go read the microfilms and quit spouting memes your youth pastor told you.
>>17765400
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cake_of_Light#Cakes_of_Light_in_The_Book_of_the_Law
>The best blood is of the moon, monthly: then the fresh blood of a child, or dropping from the host of heaven: then of enemies; then of the priest or of the worshippers: last of some beast, no matter what.
Menstrual blood is best, and I don't see why you'd have to kill the boy to get the blood - let the boy hurt himself naturally and collect his blood then.
Conscious will isn't what occultists are referring to when they make statements like "Love is the law; law under will." The magical will is like having a mind you don't control. To grab a child and bleed him is an act of mundane will - to collect the blood where it falls is a natural act of magical will.
It isn't natural to bleed boys for blood, in the same way cloudseeding isn't natural. You're emitting energy into the environment - projecting your mortal self outwards. When it rains naturally or the boy cuts himself playing, the environment is projecting into your presence - by absorbing the rain or blood, you absorb the environment.
The Aeon of Horus is the aeon of the conquering child. By absorbing the natural blood of the boy, you become the conquering child.
Menstural blood is superior - why? Because then, you absorb the blood of woman. As a male, this causes spiritual hermaphroditism - women should consume semen. In hermaphroditic form, you become a complete cosmos.
Menstrual blood will come without any mundane will - it can't be robbed of it's natural power. If Crowley was here in this thread, he'd be telling you to munch red carpets, not murder children.
>>17765079
With Tarot i see results. All i hear in magic(k)® threads is that you have to ''believe''... sounds like most of religions if you ask me.
>>17767290
You can't separate Tarot from magic. If Tarot works magic is real. If magic is real, so may be the Tarot. There are many factors involed in making magic 'work'. Maybe you should study authentic material. You also underestimate the power of belief.
>>17767246
You don't know anything about androgyny or sex. Menstruation is a disease. A healthy woman doesn't menstruate.
Crowley is bullshit occultism.
>>17767333
>believes tarot works
>expects to be taken seriously
>>17767246
In the same way that the Aeon of Horus is defined by a child avatar, the Aeon of Maat is defined by an adult female avatar.
Maat represents balance and justice - the balance of male and female, and the justice of the natural over the unnatural.
Traditionally, women were associated with Light(Shakti,) and men were associated with Darkness(Shiva, the destroyer.) Shiva is Horus - none can control or contain the dark male principle, on the condition that it contains the female Light.
Maat will be the real ruler, over many Horusian children. Praise Shakti.
>>17767290
>With Tarot i see results.
You're mentally ill.
>>17767346
>A healthy woman doesn't menstruate.
Remember to ask your physician before making any serious lifestyle changes, folks.
>>17767349
>>17767518
What is wrong with tarot? As stated I do see results.
While we are discussing these things how authentic are Eliphas Levi's works and did they influence Crowley?
We all become what we think. Magick is not fuckery or trix it is the mind over matter manipulation of reality by thinking forms into existence and altering timelines to suit your fancy. It works, always, however sometimes not in a positive way. It's hard for me to put into words but I've studied and practiced for 30-35 yrs and only now am I seeing results and realizing how absolute and powerful magick is. I am only beginning. Crowleys writings have taught me a lot, in particular sex magick is truth. Do what thou will. So mite it be.
>>17767246
>Menstrual blood is best, and I don't see why you'd have to kill the boy to get the blood
Because you either have no idea what he's saying or are feigning ignorance.
>>17767290
>All i hear in magic(k)® threads is that you have to ''believe''
Careful with that straw man. They're highly flammable.
>>17767333
>You can't separate Tarot from magic.
Sure you can.
>>17768860
>While we are discussing these things how authentic are Eliphas Levi's works and did they influence Crowley?
They're authentic enough and Crowley believed he was the reincarnation of Levi, IIRC.
>>17768889
>We all become what we think.
Not really.
who are moloch and dagon??
>>17771185
Depends on what you mean by "Moloch".
The Hebrews appeared to associate Moloch with the act of child sacrifice. Hebrew usage seems to imply that Moloch was an act rather than a being, considering that in Jeremiah 32:35 they already call out Baal as the godform to which entities were passed through the fires of Moloch, the sacrificial act itself.
Dagon is NW Semetic fertility deity associated with fishing and crops (perhaps due to fertilization practices?).
None of these are particularly relevant to Crowley unless you can point me to some references.
the reason I ask is Crowley discussing child sacrifice possible his knowledge came from moloch worship dagon seems to also have brought wisdom such as Lam did...
these entities seem to come up time and again
>>17759985
annoying to you perhaps nigger faggot
>>17771359
Still don't get it?
>>17771534
no please illuminate me...
>>17771559
I lift one corner for the student. If they can't lift the other three, of what use are they?
Which AC's book should I read first?
>>17771564
I just want some insight on why Moloch and Dagon are so ancient yet included in systems time and time again up to Bohemian Grove...
>>17760093
Dude, seriously, if your local library system is any good, it should provide access to all sorts of research databases like JSTOR that will let you look this shit up.
Manly P. Hall VS Aleister Crowley, 5 rounds of fight
GO GO GO
>>17757836
Crowley was a revolutionary figure in the world of occultism and almost all modern practices are strongly influenced by him.
What is this particular book about? The cover is odd...
>>17757836
Jung is a better start.
Please tell me about the book of perfection...I'm thinking of getting it as I want to follow Jay Z and Beyonce in applying Crowley to my music career
>>17772564
Fulgrim's autobiography?
>>17772572
The Fuck he is retard
>>17772303
Ha...haha.
HAHAHAHAHA.
Crowley was a hack and a fraud and brought little to the occult world that he hadn't stolen from the Golden Dawn.
Where should I start if I'm looking to educate myself on magick and the occult but not looking to practice? It's just a subject that has always interested me. Even biographies or fiction books are fine, just looking to expand my knowledge on it
Bamp
>>17771877
Magick Without Tears, is nice.
>>17772303
Pretty much.
>>17772823
Hello, little croaker.
>>17772839
>Where should I start if I'm looking to educate myself on magick and the occult but not looking to practice?
If you're not going to practice, it doesn't really matter where you start.
>>17772012
1) Kids can't into information resources outside of weak google queries and asking friends for their weak google queries.
2) JSTOR's been like wide open free for a couple years (limited as it may be).
>>17772572
For what?
>>17772249
Different spheres of commentary, mostly.
That'd be like Molinos v. Milarepa.
>>17772572
For...what?
>>17772839
>>17773507
>Magick Without Tears, is nice.
Second.
>>17757836
fuck that guy
>>17773519
Last time, you suggested, Magick in Theory and Practice. I can't decide which might be a better place to start.
I think I started with parts 1 & 2 of, Book 4. Then, The Book of Thoth, then MTP. I don't think that was the way to go, though.
>>17773521
And how exactly are the two incompatible?
>>17773527
M:TP's good for practicum. MWT's good for concepts. Hence my preference on that angle for >>17772839
>but not looking to practice
And heck at that point I'd maybe recommend Colin Wilson's 'The Occult' despite how hard he shitposts AC. I still thumb through it now and then.
Oh, well, I just noticed I wasn't paying attention to backlinks. Nevermind.
(I'd still say MWT is good for someone looking to get a handle on concepts rather than technical practice).
I started on Liber 333 but I'm a weird fuck.
>>17773543
>And heck at that point I'd maybe recommend Colin Wilson's 'The Occult' despite how hard he shitposts AC.
I forgot about that one. It was one of the first books I read. The first was, Drawing Down the Moon, of all fucking things.
>I started on Liber 333 but I'm a weird fuck.
Good man! I love that book.
>>17773519
>>17773543
Thank you
>>17773529
for starters one teaches to look outward, the other to look inward.
also, one of them was a debased hedonist, the other one not so much.
also, one of them proposed a literal system, while the other proposed a theoretical one.
do i need to go on ?
>inb4 LOLOLOL I TROLL U GUUD HUEHUE
>>17773603
>also, one of them was a debased hedonist,
I did not know that about Gurdjieff. How surprising.
>>17773612
>>17773603
>for starters one teaches to look outward, the other to look inward.
I thought both taught both, given the corpus of materials.
>>17773612
lel
>>17773603
>also, one of them proposed a literal system, while the other proposed a theoretical one.
(almost) 30 practical libri: http://hermetic.com/crowley/libers/class-d/
But at this point I hardly expect those smearing AC to be remotely familiar with the system.
>>17773628
I doubt he was a depraved as Bardon, though.
>>17773631
In one of life's odd little coincidences, DRJ and I had the "Fourth Way" in common. We'd both practiced and both enjoyed success with it.
>>17773633
Initiation into Pseudo-Hermetics:
Franz Bardon was/is probably the greatest man/spirit who ever lived. According to the website that bears his name and ends in a com: "Franz Bardon's spirit has been perfected over thousands of years. Before incarnating as Franz Bardon, he had incarnated as Hermes Trismegistus, Lao Tzu, Nostradamus, Robert Fludd, Count St. Germain, and Apollonius of Tyana." Moreover, my secret Hermetic sources inform me that Franz currently dwells among us as none other than... "The Most Unusual Man in the World"--and while he doesn't always drink at the Fountain of Poppycock, when he does, books like "Initiation into Hermetics," are produced. I will now proceed to review this book, but before I do, I want to let readers know who the reviewer is. I am an unsurpassed expert in mysticism, having devoted the past forty years of my life to studying and practicing it. And if you doubt me, check out my Amazon.com reviews.
According to Franz Bardon, "There is no difference between magic and mystic or any other conception of the name." Nonsense. Mysticism, as dictionary defined, is "communion with Ultimate Reality. Magic is the transformation of reality in (supernatural) ways that defy (or seem to defy) the ordinary laws of nature. Hence, when Bardon, states, "Magic is a sacred science," he is off base. Magic has nothing to do with science and can only be understood, at best, as an art, or, at worst, as an impossibility (if the laws of nature are insuperable, as science claims).
Bardon builds much of his Hermetic scaffolding upon tattvas (the emanated constituent principles of Ultimate Reality), but only lists five of the thirty-six tattvas identified by Kashmir Shaivism (the preeminent Hindu yoga tradition) and other Indian tantric traditions.
>>17773642
I like Gurdjieff. Many Thelemites do.
>>17773647
Moreover, Bardon tells us that the four gross elemental tattvas--Vayu (air), Teja or Agni (fire), Apas (water), and Prithivi (earth) descend from a fifth tattva--Akasa (ether), which Bardon apotheosizes as: "the ultimate, the supreme, the most powerful thing...the causal sphere....the non-created... the incomprehensible...the original power...everything has been created by it...it is the all in all." Franz Bardon is wrong. Akasa (ether) is actually a gross element that descends from "Sabda," the "Word,"or universal Vibration. In fact, in the hierarchically ordered Kashmir Shaivism schema, akasa (ether) is the thirty second of the thirty-six tattvas, not even close to the two highest (universal) tattvas--Siva (the Absolute's Will) and Shakti (the Primordial Energy of the Absolute). Because Bardon is wrong and his metaphysical scaffolding defective, the Hermetic superstructure that he builds upon it falls apart. If you want a true, esoteric explanation of the tattvas (or "tattwas," as Bardon has them), compare Hindu Kashmir Shaivism's (best explained in the text "Pratyabhijnahahrdayam: The Secret of Self Recognition") with Bardon's.
Bardon is guilty of innumerable erroneous statements. For example, he says, "the Tarot is the oldest book of wisdom." False. In fact, the Tarot is built upon astrology and the Kabbalah. And Bardon's so-called Hermetic text has virtually nothing to say about Tarot, astrology, or Kabbalah, which is shameful for a text that bills itself as "Hermetic." Perhaps Bardon's worst erroneous statement pertains to his indictment of man's conceptual faculty. He writes: "Therefore man himself is not the founder of his thoughts, but the origin of each thought is to be sought in the Supreme Akasa sphere of the mental plane. In short, all man believes to have created has been brought out of the world of ideas." If you believe yourself incapable of originating your own thoughts or creating anything, then you might find Barzon worth reading.
>>17773647
>Before incarnating as Franz Bardon, he had incarnated as Hermes Trismegistus, Lao Tzu, Nostradamus, Robert Fludd, Count St. Germain, and Apollonius of Tyana.
At least two of which, i must be noted, never existed.
Top kek.
>>17773653
The core of Bardon's book is "magic" physical, mental, and psychic exercises. These exercises are just rudimentary focusing exercises, not fundamentally different than ones that can be found in basic concentration/meditation texts. But Bardon makes outrageous claims for the powers they can grant. For example, regarding one exercise, he says, "Adepts who have been practicing this exercise for years are able to understand any animal and handle it with will power." Here's another: "Should the magician decide to extend these exercises over the whole body, he would succeed after a while, without any doubt, in raising his whole body by his willpower. He would be able to walk upon the water without sinking down; he could even ascend into the air with his whole body and accomplish numerous other similar actions just as it pleases him." Simply amazing.
It's grossly overpriced--about double what most comparable-size occult books go for; it's unprofessionally written; and it's teeming with typos and grammatical errors. For a $30 book, you'd expect a polished product.
The most important point regarding initiation into Hermeticism--and it is a point Bardon fails to make--is that such initiation only begins when one is initiated, or "baptized," by the Holy One. Until a disciple communes with the Deity and receives His Power--Shaktipat in Hinduism, the Holy Spirit in Christianity, the Sambhogakaya in Buddhism--one cannot become a true mystic, a genuine spiritual esotericist. And the direct way to contact the Absolute and receive its Blessing Power is via the practice of the true Eucharist, which is equivalent to the practice of true Dzogchen and true Kabbalah.
>>17773653
>Perhaps Bardon's worst erroneous statement pertains to his indictment of man's conceptual faculty. He writes: "Therefore man himself is not the founder of his thoughts, but the origin of each thought is to be sought in the Supreme Akasa sphere of the mental plane. In short, all man believes to have created has been brought out of the world of ideas."
That's genuinely grotesque.
>>17773660
>Here's another: "Should the magician decide to extend these exercises over the whole body, he would succeed after a while, without any doubt, in raising his whole body by his willpower. He would be able to walk upon the water without sinking down; he could even ascend into the air with his whole body and accomplish numerous other similar actions just as it pleases him." Simply amazing.
Yet, he died in prison.
Irritating as his disciples can be, I think Bardon is a tragic figure.
>>17773647
>I like Gurdjieff. Many Thelemites do.
that's the joke.
gig detested crowley and his methods/ideas.
>>17773718
In Hutton’s book there is but a single reference to Gurdjieff. It appears on page 220 and it occurs in connection with Crowley. I assume most readers of this commentary will have heard that Crowley was Gurdjieff’s guest at the Prieuré in 1925, how the Teacher of Dance extended the Black Magician traditional Caucasian courtesy, and then at the conclusion of the weekend, how Crowley was summarily dismissed with an insult. The incident has been retold three or four times in books and on videos.
Did it take place? Hutton considers that question:
>” … none of Crowley’s works mention his humiliation by the famous mystic Georgei Gurdjieff, who berated him and threw him out of Gurdjieff’s community at Fontainbleau in 1925, as related in a well-known book by James Webb. This particular example backfires, however, because Webb never provided a reference for the anecdote and it seems to have been a piece of gossip. Suspicion that it was a false one, inspired by Crowley’s generally bad reputation, is strengthened by the statement of Gerald Yorke to his namesake Gerald Suster, that he was the sole witness of Crowley’s only actual meeting with Gurdjieff and that the latter was a total non-event; the two men just ‘sniffed around one another’.”
So the incident may or may not have taken place. In an earlier commentary I raised the question of a possible relationship between Gurdjieff and Joseph Stalin. Here I am asking questions about a possible interaction between Gurdjieff and Aleister Crowley. A lot of peculiar things happened at the Prieuré, despite its short period of operation, including the editing on the premises of The Mahatma Letters to A.P. Sinnett (1926), one of the bulwarks of the Theosophical movement. Perhaps a reader of this commentary has further information about any meeting or meetings between Gurdjieff and Crowley.
lrn2history
>>17773782
>Gerald Yorke
>crowley disciple
lrn2objectivity
It takes an amusing naivety to be able to reconcile crowley and gig
>>17773811
K, show me your citation then.
I'd be a pretty huge academic blowout if you can show Hutton to be wrong.
>>17773837
>>17773811
ALSO, re: Yorke, if you wanna talk about objectivity, was AC's harshest contemporary biographer. Harsher than Regardie. He'd become a hardcore Buddhist devotee and was a personal representative of the 13th Dalai Lama in the West, authoring a forward to a private circulation edition of Kalachakra Tantra. If anything Yorke would have been looking for an excuse to start shit in that instance, but is tellingly silent.
>>17773837
my citation is in the understanding of gig's and crowley's work.
feel free to perform a mind-reading ritual.
or regurgitate some more citations supporting your point lol
>>17773878
>my citation is in the understanding of gig's and crowley's work.
K.
Which texts inform your thesis of incompatibility.
>[citations] r bad jej
?
>>17773885
>in search of the miraculous
>beelzebubs tales to his grandson
>The Book of the Law <--- full jej
citations are worthless on their own, they need a framework.
>>17773920
>>beelzebubs tales to his grandson
>>The Book of the Law <--- full jej
Now we're getting somewhere.
Which chapters and passages justify the exclusivity?
I'm familiar with the framework of both, so if you'd be so kind as to demonstrate the veracity of GIG's "detest", because thus far the only thing anybody has in terms of IRL disputes are an anecdote with no witnesses retold Webb in a book described as "gossipy" in an academic article (P. T. Mistlberger, "The Three Dangerous Magi: Osho, Gurdjieff, Crowley", 2010, pages 327 & 397.) whose veracity is demolished by Hutton.
>>17773782
>strengthened by the statement of Gerald Yorke to his namesake Gerald Suster
Perhaps. Depends on how much faith we can place in Suster.
>>17773920
kek
>>17773948
>kek
Here, I'll try to head this off at the pass.
If the assertion is that AC is Hasnamuss, then we must look at the litmus test:
>EVERY kind of Depravity
AC only indulged his particular fetishes. Never saw him fapping to floor tile like Tilebro.
>Self gratification in deception
Say what you will about AC's system, deception implies willful manipulation and from the looks of AC's diaries he was a sincere believer in what he was offering.
>Destruction of life
If it's an injunction against an omnivorous diet, then fine, but dude only participated in, as far as I can tell, three ritual sacrifices.
>Wants to be free from bodily effort
Said nobody about a renowned climber of mountains.
>artificial concealment of physical defect
Are you implying AC was shy about his body?
>Contented use of ill gotten goods
AC was the victim of more cons (see Boleskine) than the totality of all accusations of fraud against him.
>Striving to not be what one is
Ever heard of this little quote? It's in the Book of the Law, you might know it: "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law... Love is the law, love under will?"
Also, from Ch. 1:
>42. Let it be that state of manyhood bound and loathing. So with thy all; thou hast no right but to do thy will.
>43. Do that, and no other shall say nay.
Finally, lest we forget that GIG says even highly developed adepts may be victim to Hasnamuss tendencies, so it's a non-critique insofar as the adept in question struggles against their destructive tendencies, which again, the diaries seem to indicate.
Your move, Fourth Way Dude.
>>17773936
we are getting exactly nowhere.
if you need me to cite specific passages, there are none. and you either know this, or are an idiot.
if you were familiar with said frameworks, you wouldn't be asking these questions.
how's about you show me any indication whatsoever that the two are reconcilable beyond "muh esoterism"
and no, quoting someone saying "they are reconcilable" isn't going to help you.
>>17773987
>if you need me to cite specific passages, there are none. and you either know this, or are an idiot.
>if you were familiar with said frameworks, you wouldn't be asking these questions.
>how's about you show me any indication whatsoever that the two are reconcilable beyond "muh esoterism"
See:
>>17773974
>>17773990
you seem to be confusing gig's teachings with what was constructed around it after the fact.
have fun with that, i'm done here.
>>17774011
K, don't correct me or anything, or back up your assertions in the slightest.
I'm updating the library anyhow.
>>17773987
This is just precious.
>>17774113
So was your mum when she blew me
>>17774195
Gross. She's 74.
>>17774212
Shrugs
No teeth is God tier
>>17774223
She has great teeth, actually.
You really suck at this, too, eh?
>>17757836
You can't pick 'real occult knowledge' out of reading a collection of books. It's something that comes from occult experience in groups. Aleister Crowley wrote some nice books but he didn't flesh out what you have to experience the experience of practice of the occult. Thelians are pretty cool sometimes, but there's also some messed up stuff people do when they go crazy. Religion in general sucks.
>>17774428
>Aleister Crowley wrote some nice books but he didn't flesh out what you have to experience the experience of practice of the occult.
The Class D texts and the OTO rituals tend to disagree with this assertion.
>>17774395
My only guess was it wasn't your mum...gosh so embarrassing...guess I can't even compliment her on that...
>>17774445
Tend to?
So they don't always then?
>>17764734
>overtones of predestination more than desire
How about... predestined desire?
Also how are we standing with the T&O?
Information on the book of perfection??
Please
Guess no one has read the book of perfection ignorant faggots
>>17778860
Do ten seconds of google searching you dumb fucking cunt instead of begging to be spoonfed and crying when nobody cares.
It's a red herrings, NOT by Crowley:
http://darkbooks.org/pp.php?v=571495219#book_description
Crowley died in the fucking 40s.
>"""Aiwass """dictated The Book of Codes, Liber 718, to 777 near Portland, Oregon, in 1976.The five chapters were written down from January 5 to January 8.
>>17771959
The owl at the Bohemian Grove is there as a symbol of Athena, goddess of wisdom. Owls aren't associated with Moloch or Dagon at all.
>>17779541
You are wrong one of the oldest stone carvings I've seen from Babylon is of Moloch...Owls figured very prominent all around the carving.
Owls also mean Lilith in the Bible she is mistranslated in either Isaiah or Jeremiah
>>17778880
If I knew the answer then I wouldn't have to ask on this thread. I get annoyed when/x/ ignores good threads and questions and dick around on dumb ass Tulpa and Slender Man threads
And incidentally...Go Fuck yourself
>>17762406
You think you'd be able to spell it then...........
>>17781403
i like heroine not heroin mate...
>>17780103
I generally helps if you don't insult the person most likely to do your legwork some some petulant twatty brat.
Incidentally, I'm done with your questions.
Learn basic research skills and come back when you've mastered them.
>>17759490
Michael Keaton?
>>17757836
I've done some research and experimentation with his Thoth tarot. As a skeptic I was surprised and pleased with the results. I will probably give a few of his other books a read.
