Who is she? Was her identity revealed?
I believe the children used were all orphans. Who knows, records from the orphanages were probably burned. The majority of the MKULTRA documents went up in flames in a fire. Total coincidence that the most damning info was burned, right?
Why is MKULTRA not talked about more? Isn't it true? As in not a conspiracy but something the government actually acknowledged publically? That seems like it would envoke at least some type of public outcry, a government experimenting on its own citizens in secret is one of the worst things they could do. I'm genuinely curious why the vast majority is okay with this fact.
>>17715512
Very true, the documents that didnt burn were declassified, with redactions. Most of the really nasty stuff that happened never made it into the public sphere. They fucked up a lot of people.
MKULTRA caused Whitey Bulger.
The CIA created him and the FBI hid his crimes for years.
And then the government wonders why we don't trust them.
>>17715512
Here's my take on MK-ULTRA
>started by the CIA with a simple and honestly pretty cool goal
>make a machine that could induce trance or hypnosis without drugs
>project gets spearheaded by a sadist
>other fucked up WW2 and Cold War scientists see it as an opportunity to test their drugs and electrodes and shock, not like the sadist would report them
>sadist begins to buy, fuck and test prostitutes in the LA area, keeping them in storage lockers (this is true, it was in the congressional testimony iirc)
>meanwhile some famous golf player was given an overdose of a drug which his family and lawyers found out was part of the program
>nation pissed off now that it found out, didn't care when it was orphans and whores and blacks
>project director freaks the fuck out under the pressure, demands all documents get destroyed immediately
Almost like Idiocracy. Project directors were using it to get their nut in the most fucked up ways, but actual scientists saw it as a way to circumvent ethics regulations. When it went under, there were a few cases of documents that were in the mail when the burn order was issued. They were leaked to the press.
>Here's my conspiracy theory:
Documents that got leaked were faked. They're teeming with shit like "how to make Cuban assassins," or "how to brainwash people with mind rays!" I think the majority of them would really be, "Patient got quiet, reported seeing XYZ," that sort of thing. Why would the leaked boxes all be tantalizing summaries? Faked documents were to make the government look more powerful, make conspiracy theorists look more crazy, and mostly hide the sexual abuse behind a veil of sci-fi.
>>17715512
Government spent 20 years developing drugs and tactics that could be employed to control human behavior. Maybe we're conditioned to do nothing. Maybe it worked.
>>17715512
It's still going to be one of those things people brush off as nut job conspiracies.
>>17715898
>>started by the CIA with a simple and honestly pretty cool goal
>>make a machine that could induce trance or hypnosis without drugs
>>project gets spearheaded by a sadist
>>other fucked up WW2 and Cold War scientists see it as an opportunity to test their drugs and electrodes and shock, not like the sadist would report them
>>sadist begins to buy, fuck and test prostitutes in the LA area, keeping them in storage lockers (this is true, it was in the congressional testimony iirc)
>>meanwhile some famous golf player was given an overdose of a drug which his family and lawyers found out was part of the program
>>nation pissed off now that it found out, didn't care when it was orphans and whores and blacks
>>project director freaks the fuck out under the pressure, demands all documents get destroyed immediately
^^^ this.
Hurting people like that is wrong. It's so criminal, they should have been held responsible under the law for what they did.
>>17715898
>>17715571
Why do we need our own takes on MKUltra? Why is it considered fact that the missing documents are the worst?
I'd heard (and will provide a link once I find the story), that when the director ordered the papers burned, the ones that survived had been already hidden away, or someone disobeyed orders and stashed them instead of destroying them. Couldn't we just as easily assume that the person hiding the condemning files made sure to save some of the worst to bring down the CIA researchers?
>Headed by Sidney Gottlieb, the MKUltra project was started on the order of CIA director Allen Welsh Dulles on April 13, 1953.[17] Its aim was to develop mind-controlling drugs for use against the Soviet bloc, largely in response to alleged Soviet, Chinese, and North Korean use of mind control techniques on U.S. prisoners of war in Korea.[18] The CIA wanted to use similar methods on their own captives. The CIA was also interested in being able to manipulate foreign leaders with such techniques,[19] and would later invent several schemes to drug Fidel Castro. Experiments were often conducted without the subjects' knowledge or consent.[20] In some cases, academic researchers being funded through grants from CIA front organizations were unaware that their work was being used for these purposes.[21]
references:
17. http://www.aarclibrary.org/publib/church/reports/book1/html/ChurchB1_0199b.htm
18. https://archive.org/stream/advisorycommitte00unit/advisorycommitte00unit_djvu.txt
>"MKUltra, began in 1950 and was motivated largely in response to alleged Soviet, Chinese, and North Korean uses of mind-control techniques on U.S. prisoners of war in Korea."
19. & 20. http://www.aarclibrary.org/publib/church/reports/book1/html/ChurchB1_0200a.htm
When it comes to MKUltra, we have a lot of facts. Speculation and assumptions don't do us any good.
(1/2)
>>17715898
>actual scientists saw it as a way to circumvent ethics regulations
there were no ethics regulations at that time.
see: http://www.niehs.nih.gov/research/resources/bioethics/timeline/
>>17715512
It did cause outcry, it was investigated - there were hearings and committees and reports...
no one is "Ok" with it.
"Project MKUltra was first brought to public attention in 1975 by the Church Committee of the U.S. Congress, and a Gerald Ford commission to investigate CIA activities within the United States. Investigative efforts were hampered by the fact that CIA Director Richard Helms ordered all MKUltra files destroyed in 1973; the Church Committee and Rockefeller Commission investigations relied on the sworn testimony of direct participants and on the relatively small number of documents that survived Helms' destruction order."
>https://www.cia.gov/library/center-for-the-study-of-intelligence/kent-csi/vol44no4/html/v44i4a07p_0021.htm
think of the outrage we feel at the NSA spying on us in this day and age - how much of our privacy is gone since the Patriot Act. It's similar to that. I don't think the average citizen could demand justice, except to say HEY THAT IS FUCKED.
The gov actually investigated the CIA on this one. Congress in '75 and Senate hearings in '77. In '74, Congress passed the National Research Act, which authorized federal agencies to develop human research regulations. "1979, The National Commission releases The Belmont Report, principles of ethical research on human subjects. The Report becomes a key document in human research ethics regulations in the U.S."
Ethics regulations for research in psychology and in medical practice finally got squared away in the 80's pretty much.
(again http://www.niehs.nih.gov/research/resources/bioethics/timeline/ )
HIPAA has become almost common knowledge these days, as patients are more informed than ever of their rights, but that act didn't happen until the 1990's.
>>17717951
I was just throwing HIPAA for example
I love conspiracy theories, looking into them, thinking about them - all that stuff. I'm not a shill for drawing a line between what is fact and what is speculation. Again, making assumptions or exaggerating truths or sensationalizing the stories is a disservice to truthful investigations and the people who suffered as a result of the program. There is plenty to be outraged about which can be effectively proven (and brought out) to remind me people "let's not ever let this happen again". Adding on to that (specifically, trotting out "PROJECT MONARCH" and the idea that serial killers and celebrities are made victims of mind control) undermines the investigators reputation and weakens any arguments they might pose.
Again, I love reading about this stuff - I'm fascinated at the hold "Project Monarch" has had in the minds of people and taken off in their imaginations since Cathleen Ann O'Brien made her claims (which cannot be proven).
I'm probably asking for it. I know many of you here are die-hard believers in "Monarch mind control". Please understand that though our view points may differ, I'm not a disinformation agent. (I'm the opposite, in fact.)
And I'm certainly not being paid to write up my opinions on a Mauritanian Rock Collector's Bulletin Board, so save the lazy calls of "shill". please.
Honestly, I'd love to have a discussion about what we know, what we don't. what's confirmed, what hasn't been. And how we might discover more truths - or uncover new ways that the CIA (or other gov agencies) have tried to fuck us over the years...
