Has Anyone Tried To Grasp The Idea Of Infinity
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Yesterday I was doing a meditation on how the universe is infinite and how it has always existed, and will continue to exist.
But when I thought of this, it started to give me a slight panic attack. To think that there is nothing outside of that infinite-ness gives me a weird claustrophobic feeling that leads to major anxiety.
Has anyone from /x/ contemplated on the thought of infinity like this before? How did it make you feel? Pic unrelated.
>>17703159
All the time.
>How does it make me feel?
It is what it is. You can freak out about all kinds of things but that won't help anything. So you ist watch.
Nothing to do but watch
>>17703159
Watch this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SrU9YDoXE88
A few months ago I remember specifically trying to wrap my head around the concept of infinity a few times a day for like a week straight. I felt kinda the same way as OP, it just gave me this kinda choked feeling whenever I thought about it. It was kind of like my brain was on overload and I just couldn't handle it, the fact that the universe and time will just go on and on and on and on and on and so forth. It's strange that we've had a very similar experience, OP.
>>17703173
It's not strange you nitwit, people have been having similar feelings as long as we have been able to think
Infinity is just the point where maths breaks. In science we call them Singularities.
You will forever relive your life, over and over in this pointless game of existence. There is no escape embrace the void.
>>17703197
>embrace the void
Just finished watching Enter the Void. Good movie. Wouldn't mind being reincarnated again to be honest.
Was there ever a time that wasn't now?
There is no infinity in this universe since infinity = perfection, it is easier to confute perfection inside this universe. What you call infinite in maths is just an idea, an abstract concept.
>Related to this mind-break concept
Red pills don't affect me, and I've never thought an afterlife possible. Currently I try hard to avoid considering the concept, due to not being able to comprehend infinite time of absolute nothingness, a complete and sudden end to consciousness, a state far deeper than eternal sleep, an absolute nothing from which you cannot escape. Thoughts, anyone?
>>17703159
You mean like something that has no beginning and an end? Yes. I ALWAYS ponder that.
>>17703345
To be fair, it isn't proven that death is "eternal nothingness," it's just a theory like everything else.
>>17703368
Right, but we already know what it was like before we were born, eras we can still learn about, but cannot experience, and had no consciousness during. A state in which we have never existed. The problem for me though is that I can't study the future.
>>17703159
You only see one infinite, when there is in fact infinite infinites.
>>17703368
Come back when you know what a scientific theory means you dipshit
>>17703159
Kinda wrapped my head around infinity at the peak of one of my LSD trips, or at least I thought I did. Took one day to readjust myself back to reality.
I don't remember anything except an overwhelmingly powerfull feeling of awe, like looking at god. Have you ever pissed yourself in sheer terror? I did.
>>17703327
Wtf "infinity = perfection", that retarded. but if you get two mirrors facing each other, it shows an infinite image
>>17703201
You get reincarnated everytime you die. Only when you've lived out your degrees of incarnation as a 3rd dimensional being, then you can ascend to the next dimension.
Yes contemplate.
>>17703327
>an idea
And that in a sense is the only thing that is real.
>>17703171
fuck beat me to it, only 14 hours late
God is telling you to stop believing a lie.
http://pastebin.com/xMQ9wAwW
i see it as scales, every scale is a different world. for example, microbes, to insects, to small creatures, large creatures, then spirits, gods, creator. im just guessing on the higher scale. it goes on forever. or you can see it as everything exists somewhere sometime.
side note i invoked earth last night and it was nuts, even experienced an earthquake while half awake, and i thought it was real. it wasnt.
>>17703159
Ponder it long enough and it will start to make sense, in a sense. lol innocence. Your conceptual powers must be exercised and grown, same as anything else.
>>17703159
Yes, and I had the same reaction as you.
Infinity is literally impossible to grasp. It's merely a buzzword we've thrown around to describe what we cannot comprehend because it's too big. As far as I know, the universe being infinite isn't even confirmed. Hell, the infinite doesn't make much sense at all
Ima show you guys how the word infinite is a fallacy to the mind and can't be impossible to grasp.
>imagine a wooden beam of, say, 1x1 meter wide but of infinite length
>now, while the wooden beam is infinite in length, it's still finite in the sense that it's 1x1 meters wide
>if you were to cut slices of that beam, like one cut every one meter of length, you could fill up an infinite space with the slabs you'd have created, by stacking them
>you just turned something infinite with a finite aspect into something even more infinite
>what the fuck mang
All is infinite
So is nothing
And apparently also what's between these two
New to /x/ so I don't know the general consensus on stuff. What do you think existed before the Universe? Like, if you think the BigBang happened, 2 or more stuff had to react to cause it, right? Where were those things at?
That's what I always think about. Infinty is great and all but it's just like "eh, whatever, it'll keep going".
Infinity is pretty easy to understand desu - at least conceptually. You'll never understand the reality of it because the human brain just doesn't have that kind of processing power, but the -idea- of infinity is pretty simple - you just start counting and never ever stop.
Of course if you're a real mathfag, shit gets pretty complicated when you start looking at ordinal arrangements of aleph-null sets, and then there's the whole part about there being two kinds of infinity, with one being larger than the other. And yes, you can have two infinite sets of different size. No, I have no fucking clue how that works, but the math checks out. Watch the channel VSauce on youtube for more info
>>17705979
Do you not understand the Big Bang theory? Literally go listen to the intro to The Big Bang Theory, there was no reaction of things to make the universe. Before the universe there was infinite nothingness, a period in which time did not exist, space did not exist, there was absolute nothing.
>>17705979
Could read this to give you an idea, ties with a lot of other things too.
>http://www.zeropoint.ca/slugs_III_chap2.htm
>>17706104
So, the answer is God?
Speaking of time not existing, that is another thing that I cannot wrap my head around. Surely, time must have always existed. I guess it's the "emptiness" that I can't wrap my head around cause even in nothingness, there has to be a before and after, right?
>>17706122
Will give it a read. Thanks, anon.
>>17703159
The universe isn't infinite,because its expanding,a better question is what's outside of conciousness.
>>17706168
Subconscious? Instinct? DNA programming?
>>17706139
The Big Bang Theory makes no room for God to exist. Nothing is not a God. Time is part of the fabric of the universe, and can warp to it, much like space itself, and both were created by the Big Bang. If this helps you comprehend nothingness, the void of empty space isn't even nothing, for space is fluid-like, and it is in itself a thing. Before the Big Bang created the time and space in which things could exist, no things could exist, not even a God, since there would be neither time for him to exist and create things, nor space for him to do so.
>>17706175
No, those are all inside consciousness, parts of it.
>>17706168
Infinity is never ending, and the universe expands infinitely towards infinity. I do not think you understand what infinite means.
>>17706183
But if a God character exists, he wouldn't exactly be in the same plane as the Universe, right? It's not like Heaven if above the Everest and Hell is at the core.
How can nothing create something? There HAS to be something. Sure, then that something has to be created by something else and the list won't end but still.
>>17706192
Define consciousness for me. To me, it's being aware. My heart beat, breathing, blinking, stimulus response, etc. aren't 'conscious'.
>>17706203
The thing that you are aware of is not really you but the totality of eternal imprints you have been exposed via influences or any other ideology.
>My heart beat, breathing, blinking, stimulus response, etc. aren't 'conscious'.
They are more you than the thing that thinks it's "you".
>>17706198
Dude
You literally know nothing about the concept of the Big Bang
The singularity that expanded into the universe (via the Big Bang) would have existed before time and space because it was self contained time and space, and you don't need to ask if there was nothing before that singularity, because there was no such thing as anything before the singularity expanded. This is hard to grasp, I understand. This explanation is what science has to offer.
>>17706203
You are the universe experiencing itself.
When you understand that, you will understand consciousness.
>>17706218
I'm not a smart man. Thank you for being patient with me.
>>17706214
>>17706224
So consciousness isn't exactly part of me? That's what I'm getting out of this. As in, consciousness is like this external device.
Wow, I never thought about it like that op.
>>17705979
That's more a /sci/ topic than an /x/ one
>>17705416
which god ?
>inb4 only one god
>jesus n shit
>bible verses
>>17706234
Your consciousness is produced by your brain synthesizing your senses all at once, and your previous memories.
>>17703384
>The problem for me though is that I can't study the future.
This is the only thing that makes me want to live as long as possible.
People always have comments about extending life, when I talk about things like replacing our body/brain parts with synthetic parts to prevent premature breakdown and extend logevity:
>So you're just scared of death?
>You can't just "improve" people, it's not natural!
>So that what, you can keep being old and senile and delirious for an extra decade?
>What are you really going to do with that extra time?
It's not about improving, or running from something, or changing life as we know it. I just want to be able to see how far technology develops. I want to see us make contact with intelligent extraterrestrial life. I want to see humans leave the dying Earth behind and start again, wiser and more conscious, on self-sufficient space colonies. I want to see Virtual Reality bloom so that even if we can't achieve all these things we can at least pretend to.
>>17706248
I would disagree there is no definite definition of consciousness in contemporary terminology and scientist are at odds with what you are claiming.
>>17703190
so ist also were the counciusnes breaks?
>>17706248
Well, my brain is telling me that that sounds like bollocks, mate.
>>17703159
That's the higher part of you imparting knowledge of just how small and limiting this universe is
If we live in a virtual simulation,then our conciousness must reside outside of our reality,
>>17706363
Well, no, because we are conscious in our "reality".
>>17706346
Well, your brain doesn't really get science, particularly biology then I suppose.
>>17706370
Think more in terms of playing a video game,"you play the character"
>>17706376
That's what I was thinking. Our brains being hooked up to machines and we are characters. But our consciousness is what's giving all this meaning. In my opinion, our consciousness just have to be with us all the time. Otherwise, we'd be clueless. If that makes any sense.
>>17706373
The problem was that I completely misunderstood your previous post. But I still think consciousness is defined by when we are aware and capable of retaining information for the most part.
>>17706385
If the character got smart enough to look for the server,its first mistake would be to look inside its own reality,when we know the server must be outside of the game.
>>17706432
What else are they going to do? Hope for multiple glitches that can be traced over and over? That's ridiculous.
>>17706395
Yes, but we also have the ability to combine and synthesize information, or store it for long periods of time. Consciousness is simply the state of being aware of the world around you, and your presence in that world.
>>17703159
OP here. What gave me anxiety is the realization that the fabric that makes "me" can never go away. Sure, it may transform into something (i.e. when I die my body will turn into worm food) but the underlying matter that represents me in this current time frame has always existed, and will always exist; in some form or another.
Don't necessarily know why that gave me anxiety. I suppose it was the realization that this is it. There is no outside phenomenon. While the universe is fantastically big, that thought gave me a claustrophobic sensation and anxiety. I know that reincarnation, if it is real, will allow me to live through a multitude of different life times and life forms. But will those life forms still have the relative feeling of "I"?
For example, as I write this I'm self aware of my hands, thoughts and so on. Does another animal or species have this same capacity? Although other animals on this planet don't have as advanced of a brain as a human, does a lion or a dog have the same sense of "I", but in a rudimentary form? Obviously a dog doesn't have the cognitive ability to understand depression, mathematics and so forth. But do they operate their lives from a sense of awareness, or are they purely driven by animal-like desires like a robot with no control? Pic related
>>17706475
So what's past consciousness would be things that you aren't aware of Iike heartbeat, stimulus, even body language. Subconscious, instinct, DNA programming. I mean, technically we "know" about these things but they aren't exactly controlled by us.
>>17706482
The thing that gives you anxiety is the thought of dead matter. There is no dead matter. Everything is alive, everything is consciousness. Everything is "I".
>>17703159
yeah. same as you.
>>17706469
That's where humanity is right now,if you learn to meditate,and reach and hold point conciousness,you're free to explore the larger reality
>>17706482
>pic
That stick looks like it's going through the post on the left. Wtf
I grasp the idea of infinity whenever I want. get on my level.
I am grasping it rn
now im not
opp, grasping it again.
now im not.
get. on. my. level.
>>17703159
>To think that there is nothing outside of that infinite-ness gives me a weird claustrophobic feeling that leads to major anxiety.
Well, that is not infinity?
(In a true infinity nothing could be (outside) hell, even the concept of outside couldn't exist.
(We divide things in our perception.)
Try to be in the moment and just progressing from one thing to another that is the closest the mind gets to the (lack of constraint) of infinity.)
Always
There's no such thing as infinity, because everything must evlove
>>17706218
If it helps, anon, science believes that the big bang was caused by certain hyperdimensional shapes called p-branes that happened to vibrate in such a way that they collided at one spacial point - this collision released tremendous energy and spontaneously unfolded 11 spacial dimensions between the branes at the point of contact. Within nanoseconds, the energy had dispersed enough that all but 3 of these spacial dimensions 'relaxed' back down to their base states (in calabi-yau manifolds and whatnot) and special relativity allowed particle-antiparticle pairs to spontaneously generate out of the vast energy - from there, the big bang theory explains the rest
>>17706218
Actually, you know nothing about it if you think it really happened, and is not just a computer model.
>>17706592
Digital big bang=probability distributions "solved"
>>17706483
Yes, your consciousness is the mere knowing that these things exist.
>>17706592
Can you please cite your sources
I'm gonna need a lot of sources on that
That sounds like hardcore spiritual technobabble
>>17706612
Please either cite your sources or don't samefag this hard
Nothing is infinite though. Things can only ever progress indefinitely, but can never be infinite.
>>17707017
What, you couldn't just google p-brane?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brane_cosmology
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brane
>>17707023
Cool theory but
>Empirical tests
>As of now, no experimental or observational evidence of large extra dimensions, as required by the Randall–Sundrum models, has been reported. An analysis of results from the Large Hadron Collider in December 2010 severely constrains the black holes produced in theories with large extra dimensions.
>>17707054
That's all the universe origin theories
>>17707080
The big bang theory can be proven via the Cosmic Background Radiation, empirical evidence
Once I recognized my true being, the finite mind stopped and I remained as the infinite.
>>17707215
Not proven, but the fact that the BB Theory predicted the CMB lends a lot of support to the model being accurate, and it is definitely the best model we have to date.
>This is a very active field of study, with scientists seeking both better data (for example, the Planck spacecraft) and better interpretations of the initial conditions of expansion. Although many different processes might produce the general form of a black body spectrum, no model other than the Big Bang has yet explained the fluctuations. As a result, most cosmologists consider the Big Bang model of the universe to be the best explanation for the CMB.
Theories are never proven, they are only reaffirmed through new evidence until something in the data forces a change in the model.
>>17703171
computer engineer reporting in
This quite honestly. The study of infinity is pretty mundane, but the applications are where the tits are at.
OP is just an example of Dawkins the meme king at work.
>>17703159
This is stoner logic though. The universe is not infinite, it's just fucking huge and we can't see all of it. It hasn't existed forever, we just don't understand all of it. You're wasting your time pretending to be knowledgeable meditating on a conclusion based off a lack of information. A better use of your time would be to mediate on how you've wasted time concerned about something you'll never understand and don't need to understand. Your place is where you are now with what is in front of you instead of in la la land pretending you understand the mysteries our race can't understand.
>>17703406
Only if you do the same.
>>17703159
turtles all the way down man
>>17703159
Yes. Try learning calculus. You have to become very comfortable with infinity to get anything done.
>>17703159
I think infinity and the value we put on it which seem to render it paradoxical are inescapable constructs of our minds. Just rest assured we exist even if it's difficult to understand why.
(Arjuna saw the Universal Form of the Lord) with many mouths and eyes, and many visions of marvel, with numerous divine ornaments, and holding divine weapons. (11.10)
Wearing divine garlands and apparel, anointed with celestial perfumes and ointments, full of all wonders, the limitless God with faces on all sides. (11.11)
If the splendor of thousands of suns were to blaze forth all at once in the sky, even that would not resemble the splendor of that exalted being. (11.12)
Arjuna saw the entire universe, divided in many ways, but standing as (all in) One (and One in all) in the body of Krishna, the God of gods. (11.13)
--Bhagavad Gita
>>17709324
O Lord of the universe, I see You everywhere with infinite form, with many arms, stomachs, faces, and eyes. Neither do I see the beginning nor the middle nor the end of Your Universal Form. (11.16)
I see You with Your crown, club, discus; and a mass of radiance, difficult to behold, shining all around with immeasurable brilliance of the sun and the blazing fire. (11.17)
I believe You are the imperishable, the Supreme to be realized. You are the ultimate resort of the universe. You are the protector of eternal Dharma, and the imperishable primal spirit. (11.18)
I see You with infinite power, without beginning, middle, or end; with many arms, with the sun and the moon as Your eyes, with Your mouth as a blazing fire whose radiance is scorching all the universe. (11.19)
The entire space between heaven and earth is pervaded by You alone in all directions. Seeing Your marvelous and terrible form, the three worlds are trembling with fear, O Lord. (11.20)
Basically a poetic description of trying to fathom infinity
>>17708591
Stergil?
I just heard those words today. Great song.
And also weird to read it here.
You say this wrong.
You say if there is nothing outside this infinite-ness.
There is no outside. The outside that you refer to here is the same as the inside.
It's you who makes this "outside".
It has no meaning and that is why it is scary.
It's a major unexplained contradiction caused by condradictive thinking.
>There is no outside, this outside is also you.
>>17703159
Obviously almost everyone contemplates this.
But I do understand your slight panic attack.
I mean...does the universe end? How could it not end? What's at the end? What's beyond that? What's beyond even that? WHERE DOES IT END
>>17703171
I'm interested in this topic and even I'm not going to watch 23 minutes of this shit.
>>17703173
It's not strange at all. This concept was discussed in an episode of Everybody Loves Raymond for fuck's sake.
>>17703177
Pretty much this. Op is probably in his late teens or early twenties. This sort of awe in the vastness of infinity is common. Very common actually throughout history.
>>17703171
this is so stupid. it just talks about different mathematical understandings of bigger and bigger infinities. it doesn't offer any sort of answer.
>>17705273
Fuckin degenerate
>>17706224
We are not all one. Don't be an ass.
>>17706300
Oh stop. You're a biological machine and nothing more. You're not any more special than an ant in a line.
>>17706592
pea brains huh?
Jackass.
>>17707023
>citing wikipedia
Come on
>>17703159
The net energy in the universe is zero or infinitesimal (they're not the same but we will never be able to know the difference due to the nature of the notion of infinitesimal, if we could measure a difference it wouldn't be infinitesimal, so it is irrelevant to note the difference between zero and infinitesimal in this case where they are completely indistinguishable, the universe is effectively zero), whatever is outside the universe is infinite, which causes our universe to be zero (or infinitesimal) in comparison. Our universe is nothing, and nothing can only exist in the context of everything, so as to "force it down" to nothing.
An example would be to draw a circle on a finite piece of paper, the circle has an objective non-zero size on the paper, which is not the case for our universe. If the paper expands infinitely outwards in all directions, the circle is infinitely small, or effectively nothing, even though if you look close enough it seems to exist, when you move farther and farther away it ceases to exist in the context of the infinite expanse of the paper. So our universe is like a thing suspended in an infinite expanse, and in that way it is infinitesimal, or nothing, while at the same time seeming to exist to us simply because we are equally limited in scope (equally nothing in comparison to everything), because we are not infinite ourselves we can't truly comprehend the fact that our universe is nothing, we can't "grasp" infinity because we are not infinite. If someone were to somehow "grasp" it THEY would be THE infinite (the infinite is by nature whole, there can't be "two separate infinites" or anything ridiculous like that).
That's the conclusion I seem to have come to after contemplating the relevance of "infinty". I'm probably wrong somewhere, but that's currently where I stand.
>>17703159
Infinity is just around the corner in meditation.
Using the discursive mind in attempting to replicate infinity will only lead to internal conflict because the nature of discursive mind is divisive, fragmentory, analytical and therefore implicitly limiting. And you cannot limit infinity.
Do you sense something?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3vNehMoTXA&feature=youtu.be
>>17709397
We are just machine, but there is a ghost in the machine.
has anyone ever really been far even as decided to, want to use to do go look more like?
