I want to learn/study magic,but I'm afraid my knowledge and understanding of science will be an obstacle. What should I do? What kinds of magic are possible? Can magic co-exist with science?
My understanding of magic is still kinda vague. How would /x/ define 'magic'? What is the difference between 'magick' and 'magic'?
>What kinds of magic are possible?
none you big silly goose
>>17694804
This is what lonely atheists spend their days posting, all day long, on a board they say they don't like.
>>17694687
>Can magic co-exist with science?
It does already. What you need to do is to discern between real science and "science" which is actually politics. New discoveries are often denied because someone would lose their unique position if it was spread, or an industry may lose market shares.
If you could prove healing works and all hospital staff was to be unemployed they would fight this new healing method with teeth and nails to suppress it.
This is why magic is not accepted. But that doesn't stop you from using it for your own benefit as long as you don't try to make money from the practice itself.
>>17694687
Yes, go study Thelema. It has brought the scientific method to magic(k), and is all about reading an insane amount of books and dedicating decades of life into it.
>>17694839
>This is why magic is not accepted
That, and the complete lack of tangible evidence to support it.
>>17694897
Word that as
>documented tangible evidence accepted by science
and agree.
I could document the effects I had from sigil magic and other more direct magic, but to what end? Noone would want to look at it and I would be ridiculed for it.
Which is why I'll just silently use it for myself a a selected few whom I care for. The critics are the losers here.
Give magic to the general public and you end up with shit like creepyhollows, it's no loss for them to not have it.
>>17694920
Yeah I meant "tangible" as in "physical evidence you can measure and show someone else".
>>17694897
>This is why magic is not accepted
>That, and the complete lack of tangible evidence to support it.
Over and over again materialists demand physical evidence, because in their world that is all there is. Anything else they have to attack to defend their world view.
>>17694933
Problem here is that things like fixing my back can't really be measured by someone else.
The pain and stiffness that used to stop me from doing what I wanted is gone, but this feeling is of course subjective. Showing someone else how I don't feel the pain I used to feel is kinda difficult.
That's just one example.
>>17694940
Just beacuse you believe something doesn't make it real
>>17694942
Ever heard of the Placebo Effect?
>>17694687
>my knowledge and understanding of science will be an obstacle.
What knowledge and understanding? What do you know?
I'm guessing you don't know shit.
Q, What is a Particle? (protip: wiki won't tell you)
>>17694687
>Chained by Science
>>17694940
Alright. I am a actually a dog. I don't need to give physical evidence, you materialistic pig. Just accept that I am a dog.
>>17694993
Your obsession with the concrete is so pedestrian, yet you think you're being wise.
Fess up, you're only on /x/ to shitpost because you can't stand people believing in things you don't like. Your whole life is about being a pain in the butt.
>>17695005
Yes, and the point is I didn't specifically want to fix my back when I did this. It was for another more general purpose.
Next morning I woke up and realized my back felt light. I've had this problem for 10+ years, I know exactly what the problem was, been to a physician for this and got a training program that didn't do much.
The problem was of a kind that isn't suddenly solved like this. All science can say is "spontaneously healed".
For it to be placebo one has to actually believe that it would be healed, I was surprised by this effect, it was unexpected.
>>17695011
>vaccine
>implying autists are not easier to exploit
>>17695014
Must defend materialism! MUST!
>>17694687
Of course magic can coexist with science. My method is science, my aim is religion. I'm pretty much an atheist, too.
>>17695025
> Implying vaccines cause autism.
>>17694687
>What is the difference between 'magick' and 'magic'?
"Magick" is a spelling revived by Aleister Crowley to distinguish his system from mere sorcery and the like.
>>17695026
Hey! Stop being mean to that dog, you materialist!
>>17695025
>>17694942
>The pain and stiffness that used to stop me from doing what I wanted is gone,
/fit/ here.
Lower back? To one side mainly?
You had a weak back. This caused you problems. Your solution was to actually build up your back, where as most doctors would recommend rest. It's a common injury, and one some people go through their whole lives without properly fixing.
20 Leg Raises, 20 Supermans and a few Planks twice a week. Sorted.
>>17694687
I think actual 'magic' would be anything that directly violates the laws of physics.
The real question is why materialists and atheists feel a need to shitpost on /x/ all day.
They say they don't respect the people here or the topics, but then they themselves are here.
>>17694940
>le neckbeard in a hat maymay
Stop getting so triggered, it's making you argue in bad faith which will only trigger bad faith responses.
I'm just saying that it's not just politics, the scientific method only works on measurable, material evidence, it can't effectively deal with anything subjective. They also don't teach a lot of epistemology in science class (what I learned I mostly learned on my own) which makes a lot of researchers more absolutist than they should be.
>>17694942
Since pain is a nerve impulse it's theoretically measurable but it's not really practical or ethical to cut you open and insert probes. Range of motion, skin temperature, brain activity and muscle tension can be measured though.
Back pain is funny though, a lot of the trouble I get is the muscle guarding response to pain tightening everything up and making things worse, so if you can mentally block the initial pain it could alleviate a lot of the symptoms.
>>17695053
You're doing it again. Who said anything about atheism?
>>17695046
>20 Leg Raises, 20 Supermans and a few Planks twice a week. Sorted.
Thanks anon, I will try that.
>>17695120
Start with just the supermen for the first few weeks anon. Don't do 2 days in a row either, the rest is important.
You'll feel the difference in days.
>>17695120
leg raises with most people train the hip flexers. they will get stiff and this will create anterior pelvic tilt, which will cause lower back pain.
i suggest stretching the hip flexers and training the glutes. work up to deadlifts, they're the best back exercise there is. but don't do them if it hurts a lot.
>>17694687
How knowledgeable are you exactly?
For those not brought up with religion/mysticism/superstition, scientific sounding terminology can be utilized to get over their incredulousness (Chaos Theory, Quantum Physics, Multiverse Interactions, Epigenetics responding to unconscious information).
A useful philosophical position may be seeing reality as a simulation or like a holograph explaining how you can effect change in an a causal way.
I recommend picking up a copy of The Holographic Universe: The Revolutionary Theory of Reality by Michael Talbot as well as Chaos Magick texts which give a framework of methodology but avoid the strong ties to tradition and dogma.
A good example of this would be Alan Chapman's Advanced Magick for Beginners.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_William_Dunne John William Dunne might interest you as well.
Most importantly keep a magical diary, start small and on things you aren't emotionally invested in and be persistent, their is some great crossover with Lucid Dreaming as a discipline as well so work on that at the same time.
>>17695469
>A useful philosophical position may be seeing reality as a simulation or like a holograph explaining how you can effect change in an a causal way.
In scientific terms, a good way is remembering that the world we perceive is a model we construct to explain the nerve impulses we feel, and it's heavily mediated by the subconscious. This is supported by logic and science. Then look at different magical systems as other models, and ways of exploring and changing the way our mind perceives things, instead of getting caught up in dogma.
Robert Anton Wilson is interesting and entertaining, if you remember he's a bit of a trickster and he doesn't want you to take him too literally. He mostly wants people to examine and question their fundamental assumptions and think for themselves.
It's a bit of a tangent but Joseph Campbell's take on Jungianism and the collective unconscious is interesting and pretty accessible from a scientific point of view.
>>17695625
At a minimum, magic is manipulating our internal model of the world. There's no violation of the laws of physics in that case. Whether there is more to it than that is left for individual explorers to discover for themselves.
>>17694687
>Yakutia
muh turan
>>17695011
I think he means figuratively.
