Holy Miracles
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You are currently reading a thread in /x/ - Paranormal
Any proof of miracles actually occuring?
>>17566537
No, they don't have any proof, or any evidence for that matter.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Our_Lady_of_Zeitoun
>>17566575
This is fascinating.
I have always wondered if there is proof by scientists of a Holy Ghost
>>17566537
miracles do happen but too many people disbelieve
like if I told you that God saved my life two Christmas's in a row, how many of you would actually believe me?
>>17566607
You'd have to prove it was god doing it and not just dumb luck. Saying a god exists is a scientific claim and you need to back it up with the scientific process or else it's moot. There is no evidence for any god and you can't argue your god into existence. Once you prove god exists, you would then have to prove that that god is Jesus or whomever you believe in.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gW23DRWfkwg
Reminder that Spain and it's underwater topography were crafted by God to show us proof of the Bible.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQVm8RokoBA
>>17566729
He says a bunch of bullshit, his credentials don't make him correct about his conclusions.
>>17566620
see what I'm saying lol
>>17566770
It's not that no one believes you, it's that how the fuck do you know it was a god?
>>17566635
>were crafted by God
This guys existence is a miracle!
Read Canada's cryptic story at www.kelownasucks.com
>>17566775
dreams from Heaven
Faith
I don't question it
>>17566537
no proof. no documents saying the holy spirit healed you.
That's where faith comes in.
>>17566565
I'm trying to give humanity the opportunity to get proof of God but no one seems to care to even research. They all seem more interested in trying to prove it doesn't exist. Probably because it takes no effort to say so.
>>17566737
Reminder that all human life is comprised of matter with a measurable mass, which Albert Einstein proved literally IS a measurable quantity of energy which can be transformed into a measurable photon particle density of light traveling through space-time, exactly as matter does.
Light is the single fastest traveling thing in the universe, is the only thing that has innate particles which do not contain mass. However, even light must be sucked into the one thing that acts similarly to the Big Bang: black holes. And so just as matter emerged from nothing in the Big Bang (something everyone must recognize as being miraculous, regardless of faith/faithlessness), matter returns to nothing in a black hole. These are the two phenomena scientists still to this day struggle to understand, and yet realize that for their model of the Universe as we know and harness it, they must work under the assumption that the immutable Forces all operated before the Universe existed. And these Forces are not physical, control EVERYTHING that has ever occurred (at all points in space-time simultaneously), and so we could say in some sense these Forces are both omnipresent and omnipotent. Literally, anything mankind has ever achieved or fallen victim to was due to the Forces of Nature. Some simply prefer to call these forces "God" or another name in their own language. Yet so many millions of human beings claim to believe in its existence or to have felt its presence.
>Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter.
When Master Yoda spoke of the Force, he too spoke of our inherent notion of the immutable Forces of the universe (gravity, electromagnetism and the strong/weak atomic forces) which all of mankind has worked through millennia to harness and understand.
Many of the scientists in universities and at the LHC are all believers in God. Even as the most knowledgeable people about physics in the world, they realize there are things they don't know, and many believe in God
>>17566811
They don't have to prove he doesn't exist, it's not up to them to prove a god doesn't exist, it's up to you to prove he does through scientific evidence. There is none proving any god had anything to do with the creation of the universe or creation of humans.
>>17566811
People don't believe in God because one can empirically determine His existence.
>>17566815
No matter how you try to spin it, not knowing enough doesn't equal a god doing everything, this is regular logic. You're just trying to make the evidence fit your worldview instead of using logic and following the evidence where it leads. Their credentials don't make their conclusions true. Also funny because I heard most scientists are atheist.
>>17566831
so empirical evidence is meant to narrow your view on the world? interesting..
I'm so sick of hearing proof all the time on this damn board
Paranormal can't be proved
>>17566904
If it can't be proven then does it exist at all?
>>17566934
prove you exist.
show me the "proof".
Everything you are experiencing is just neural connections in your brain.
Basically, there isn't anything BUT yourself.
>>17566837
>No matter how you try to spin it, not knowing enough doesn't equal a god doing everything, this is regular logic. You're just trying to make the evidence fit your worldview instead of using logic and following the evidence where it leads.
But you have to admit there is a non-physical series of Forces that govern our life, don't you? Can you at least understand how someone might be drawn to the conclusion that God exists based on the scientific evidence our world can provide right now just as likely as they might be drawn to believe God doesn't exist?
>Also funny because I heard most scientists are atheist.
This is true, but those same scientists who are atheists would tell you many of their contemporaries are religious people.
>>17566954
Philosophy 101, I can interact with other matter which is how I exist.
>>17566968
>But you have to admit there is a non-physical series of Forces that govern our life, don't you?
How did you come to this conclusion?
>>17566980
... Grade 11 science class?
All the physics and statics courses I took to earn my degree?
All the principles of electricity I had to learn to build solar panel grids?
The force of gravity, electromagnetism, strong and weak nuclear forces are not physical things, you can't touch gravity. But we know them as immutable laws governing ALL the interactions of physical matter on a macroscopic and microscopic level.
God has said he is the Alpha and the Omega, and it is only in the Big Bang (Creation) and in the Black Hole (Destruction) that modern man's model of the Forces fails to operate successfully.
>>17566537
NEVER HAPPEND
STOP DREAMING
>>17566980
Well guess what, I can interact with God.
Therefore, he exists!
>>17567004
Can you please try to state your point clearly and succinctly? You seem to have something to say but you're rambling so I can't make it out...
>>17567009
you need to see a doctor
>>17567004
You interact with gravity though. Thus it is physical.
>>17567026
How, Sway? How?
>>17567038
I'm not rambling, you can read about it on wikipedia.
Remember, these Forces are non-physical, are present EVERYWHERE at once, have existed before the Universe and interact with every single physical object in the Universe simultaneously. And the only time these immutable laws upon which ALL modern technology has been crafted from, fail to make sense to scientists is during the Big Bang (from which all matter and energy originated), and beyond the Event Horizon of Black Hole (which destroys all matter). This is not rambling, this is scientific fact.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fundamental_interaction
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Bang
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Event_horizon
>"I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End."
>>17567053
Again, you're trying to make the evidence fit your worldview, not following the evidence where it leads.
>>17567038
He seems to think the physical forces are non-physical just because you can't see them or they aren't tangible.
Love righteousness, you who judge the earth;
think of the LORD in goodness,
and seek him in integrity of heart;
2
Because he is found by those who do not test him,
and manifests himself to those who do not disbelieve him.c
3
For perverse counsels separate people from God,
and his power, put to the proof, rebukes the foolhardy;d
4
* Because into a soul that plots evil wisdom does not enter,
nor does she dwell in a body under debt of sin.e
5
For the holy spirit of discipline* flees deceit
and withdraws from senseless counsels
and is rebuked when unrighteousness occurs.f
6
For wisdom is a kindly spirit,
yet she does not acquit blasphemous lips;
Because God is the witness of the inmost selfg
and the sure observer of the heart
and the listener to the tongue.h
7
For the spirit of the LORD fills the world,i
is all-embracing, and knows whatever is said.
8
Therefore those who utter wicked things will not go unnoticed,
nor will chastising condemnation pass them by.j
9
For the devices of the wicked shall be scrutinized,
and the sound of their words shall reach the LORD,
for the chastisement of their transgressions;
10
Because a jealous ear hearkens to everything,k
and discordant grumblings are not secret.
11
Therefore guard against profitless grumbling,
and from calumny* withhold your tongues;
For a stealthy utterance will not go unpunished,
and a lying mouth destroys the soul.
12
Do not court death* by your erring way of life,
nor draw to yourselves destruction by the works of your hands.
13
Because God did not make death,l
nor does he rejoice in the destruction of the living.
14
For he fashioned all things that they might have being,
and the creatures of the world are wholesome;
There is not a destructive drug among them
nor any domain of Hades* on earth,
15
For righteousness is undying.* m
THE WICKED REJECT IMMORTALITY AND RIGHTEOUSNESS ALIKE
16
It was the wicked who with hands and words invited death,
considered it a friend, and pined for it,
and made a covenant with it,
Because they deserve to be allied with it.
>>17567049
You're misunderstanding the difference between the Forces and that which it acts on.
We know that objects all accelerate on earth at 9.81m/s^2, this is due to the Force of Gravity, a fundamental interaction between the object itself and Earth. The object is physical, the Earth is physical. But the Force of Gravity is only present in the sequences of actions that result from it, not from its physicality. This is why planets orbit around each other, it's why solar systems orbit around each other, it's why the moon has phases, it's why the sun rises in the morning and falls at night. There is no physical gravity, but every single thing in the universe is subject to the bending of space-time, which is defined as gravity.
You can never interact with gravity, nor can you interact with the electromagnetic force. They are governing axioms of the universe as sure as 2 + 2 = 4. Only in a black hole does 2 + 2 = 0 and only during the Big Bang did 2 + 2 = 5.
And there are still in this world, those things that scientists must confess are unexplainable, otherwise known as "miracles".
And the man who discovered the first fundamental interaction (gravity), and also happened to invent calculus and many other doctrines of mathematics and physical sciences, was an extremely devout Christian. He believed in the Bible in an interpretation so literal that modern day priests would have called him a heretic.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_views_of_Isaac_Newton
>Newton saw a monotheistic God as the masterful creator whose existence could not be denied in the face of the grandeur of all creation.
>>17567070
You can't observe quarks or gluons even with the greatest microscopes man has created, but we can scientifically prove they physically exist. You can only define gravity as an interaction of physical objects. It's never been and never will be an object itself.
Mass is physical.
Light is physical.
Energy is physical.
Gravity, electromagnetic force, strong and weak nuclear forces can't be defined as physical things, they are more like physical law
>>17567080
You don't actually understand science, do you?
>>17567086
Do you not understand there is a difference between physical objects such as light, matter and energy and the interactions of the objects? It's a very simple concept all scientists understand.
You should seriously reread this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fundamental_interaction#Overview_of_the_fundamental_interactions
Isaac Newton is known for discovering the gravity, Einstein for refining it to the modern accepted theory.
Growing up christian, I've had two experiences. One was during my sophmore year of high school. I was attending an event at church. It was called prophetic evangelism. All the teens break up into groups and we all pray, then we compare what we all heard from god. We had a group of 5. 3 guys got the word "eagle" over and over again, I got nothing, and the other guy got the name "Karen". While talking about it we remember there's a bank about 5 miles out that has an eagle on top. When we arrive, there are 3 eagles. One on the roof and two on the pillars entering the parking lot. However, we did not find a Karen. So we walked around and prayed for people who would allow us to.
The second time was during my freshman year of college, I had finished emt class the first semester and had my license so my friends just assumed I was their personal doctor. One buddy of mine calls me up while I'm in my anatomy class and says he fell and hit his head on a fountain, he felt very dizzy, his vision was getting blurry and puked soon after. I have no reason to believe my friend was lying so I told him to pull over and wait for me to get there so I could take him to the urgent care. I stayed on the phone with him and he slowly started getting less coharent. He stopped responding to me about 10 minutes before I arrived. I found him where he told me he had pulled over and I pulled him from his car. He was way out of it and he was barely able to walk. I got him to my car and strated for the urgent care. I started praying out loud for healing while I was driving. After a few minutes of praying my friend jolted up from his seat and looked at me very confused. I took him to the urgent care and everything was fine. Which was very lucky for my friend as he was supposed to ship for the marines within the next 2 weeks and wouldn't have been able to ship with a concussion that close to his ship date.
Feel free to explain to me how fake this is and think what you want.
>>17566537
Any proof they didn't? Stupid question bro.
>>17567080
that's really interesting
i thought newton was an occultist or something
>>17567116
newton believed in the truth of Jesus Christ and his archangels to a very literal degree.
>>17567222
Why does the creator have to be a human?
>>17566537
Where people on a rock flating in a vaccum of potential dragonball z levels of destruction and harmful stuff.
Were inside our bodies.
Etc etc.
>>17566620
Tipping as hard as I can.
>>17566980
>Philosophy 101, I can interact with other matter which is how I exist.
I do this in my dreams. Therefore my being exists as a physical manifestation not only in my waking life, but in my dreaming life as well? My dreaming life is as valid of an existence as the one I live while awake? What if the dream life is the real life and the waking life is a creation in my own mind?
>>17567470
>What if the dream life is the real life and the waking life is a creation in my own mind?
And, we have a winner!
>>17567470
I fly and float in dreams, does that make my dreams real? No, that makes them fantasy.
>>17567565
I dunno about that... I would say.. dream world is closer to the ultimate reality.
>>17568747
The dream world is a product of brain activity during REM sleep. There's no evidence that it has any supernatural explanation.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miracle_of_the_Sun
Hard to classify this as "merely mass hallucination"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axZNs2y9PXo
>there are actual christfags on /x/
>>17568761
>The dream world is a product of brain activity during REM sleep.
The world we percieve while awake is a product of brain activity during sensory input interpretation
>>17568918
How is that any different than believing in ghosts and ayyys ?
Mecca crane collapse
>>17569237
because we have more evidence of ghosts and ayys than we do of some semitic zombie that christians worship.
>>17569770
>>17566537
I'm guaranteed that I'm going to die
That's a miracle if anything
>>17570212
They're all the same shit, manifested on different experiences and forms based on the end user's brain neural state drive.
>>17569770
>>17566620
So you're saying a spiritual entity has to be proven by a materialist science, without roleplaying a mental illness? damn
>>17566801
>dreams from Heaven
I've had dreams from Valhalla. they're just dreams, not proof
>Faith
I could have faith in Odin. doesn't change anything.
>I don't question it
I have a bridge to sell you, and boy is it a deal. As owner, you could put up a toll booth and make a killing.
>>17567004
>The force of gravity, electromagnetism, strong and weak nuclear forces are not physical things, you can't touch gravity.
Just because you can't touch something with your hands doesn't mean it's not considered "physical" in a scientific sense. Everything that exists is made of the same stuff, but in different forms and combinations. The four forces are obviously physical in nature sense we can observe the PHYSICAL effects of their existence.
>God has said he is the Alpha and the Omega,
no, a book written by some primitive man says that an alleged god said this. That same book says a lot of other things too, a lot of which is verifiable bullshit
>>17567053
> these Forces are non-physical
and yet still cause physical effects on solid matter. sure.
>have existed before the Universe
lolwut? citation needed on that claim
>And the only time these immutable laws upon which ALL modern technology has been crafted from, fail to make sense to scientists is during the Big Bang (from which all matter and energy originated), and beyond the Event Horizon of Black Hole (which destroys all matter).
If they fail to make sense under certain circumstances, that just means we have yet to full understand those laws. This is a prime example of argument from ignorance (don't know, must be god).
Also, black holes most certainly do NOT destroy all matter, you illiterate pleb. Matter is not destroyed or created, only changes forms, and in a black hole, that matter is compressed into a highly dense singularity. If the matter that entered a black hole was destroyed, then black holes would have any mass or gravity.
Go back to school and pay attention this time, window licker.
>>17567080
>Only in a black hole does 2 + 2 = 0 and only during the Big Bang did 2 + 2 = 5.
Confirmed for retard who doesn't understand the first thing about black holes OR the big bang
>>17567104
the first "experience" isn't even a fucking experience. what was so special about that? "hurr durr, god said "eagle" to some people so we went to a bank that had eagles on it, praise jeezus!"
If I "prayed" and heard "stop sign", and I actively went looking for a stop sign, that isn't a prophecy coming true. Look up the term "self-fulfilling prophecy".
As for the second one, lucky coincidence. I'll counter your outlying anecdote with one that's more typical for "prayer healing"
http://time.com/8750/faith-healing-parents-jailed-after-second-childs-death/
Nothing "fake" about what happened to you. You're just a mouth breathing retard for thinking there is anything supernatural to it.
>>17566537
I got a 65% on a test last Monday, despite doubting that I'd even reach 20%.
>>17567104
>concussion
>he was fine
Choose one.
I have had something similar happen to me, once while I was smoking with a friend and watching Sons of Anarchy since he was into it. There was a really intense rape scene that ended in murder and a very dark tone, (it was s1 if anyone saw that shit) and once the rapist was shot i started feeling extremely weak and after he was killed i just felt like collapsing, couldnt breathe and I could barely hold myself up, nothing but nausea and my muscles felt unable to do the slightest effort. Lasted for 15mins while i got fresh air and drank some water. Went for a checkup the next day and no health problems.
Second time was after my GF was driving home and we got rear ended and bassically went throught your buddys same deal, felt the same as the time I was with my friend. Id only hit my head on the window, not too badly. No lasting effects or concussion just Had the feel for an hour or so.
These dubs
>/x/ can't handle a little faith when so many other things they discuss is based on faith and simple belief
what's with you guys? are you still rebelling against your parents' old ways or something?
Miracle of the sun was recorded as a miracle and had mass witnesses
>>17566635
>>17571433
If it exists, then it is material. I don't even know what it means for something immaterial to exist.
![force_carriers_box[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/xmWdKfU.jpg "force_carriers_box[1].jpg")
>>17566815
Okay, there's a few flaws here which ultimately undermine the point you're trying to make.
>the Big Bang (something everyone must recognize as being miraculous, regardless of faith/faithlessness)
"Miraculous" is just a label, an adjective. And it's got strong religious connotations too. Nobody is forced to accept that the big bang is mircaulous, that's just the word you, with your subjective assesment of things, chose to describe it with.
>they must work under the assumption that the immutable Forces all operated before the Universe existed
While they may have existed before the big bang happened, scientists don't claim to understand or know anything that occurred before the big bang. The big bang theory only goes back as far as a few moments after the beginning of the universe. So no.
>And these Forces are not physical
The term used to describe them in the scientific community is 'non-contact', not non-physical, and for good reason. They are forces that exist in the physical world, not in the mental world or some spiritual world. They relate directly to the field of physics and, most importantly, they're MEASURABLE. Also, consider the existence of force carriers in 3 of the 4 fundamental forces (and scientists will more than likely discover gravity's force carrier at some point, or something like it). Force carriers are "particles that give rise to forces between other particles". The photon being a good example, the force carrier of electromagnetism. It's hard to describe the photon as being non-physical.
>Some simply prefer to call these forces "God"
You can do that if you want. But keep in mind the fact that the word already has strong connotations of not just being an all powerful cosmic force, but an intelligent one, often and omniscient one, and often a benevolent one too. Don't pretend that redefining God as being the forces of nature is going to make the forces of nature intelligent too.
![yoda1-e1446595804475[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/ke4sYYJ.jpg "yoda1-e1446595804475[1].jpg")
>>17573508
Also, I ran out of space before I could tackle this bit:
>Many of the scientists in universities and at the LHC are all believers in God.
So is it many of them or all of them? Doesn't matter because you probably don't know. As far as I know, statistically speaking, scientists are largely unreligious. I'm not sure how many of them believe in some kind of supreme being and it doesn't matter anyway, because your argument is an appeal to authority.
[spoiler]And do yourself a favour, anon, do not quote fucking MASTER YODA as if he's an authority on the subject too.[/spoiler]
>>17566841
No, it's meant to help separate facts from fairy tales.
>>17569770
word
>>17573412
Numbers.
*Plato drops mic*
Take LSD, and they will happen.
Miracle of Lanciano
>in Italy a monk was givng the Holy Eucharist, but he didn't believe the bread and wine to be the Body of Christ.
>the bread and wine turned into flesh and blood
>the flesh and blood still exist tody in Italy
>multiple scientific tests prove that it is legit and there are no preservatives
Defenstration of Prague.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defenestrations_of_Prague
Cliffs
>Influential Protestants give ultimatum to Catholics regents
>Things get tense as the Catholics ask to postpone agreeing to the terms
>Both regents and their scribe get thrown out the window (pic related the top floor)
>All of them cry out to Jesus, Virgin Mary etc
>all of them survive
>all of them walk away without a scratch
Catholics would claim this as a miracle, Protestants said that the men fell into a dung pile. Either way that's a pretty high fall for all 3 to not be injured at all.
>>17574610
dictionary infernal illustration of baal got me lolin' good
>>17570212
>>17568918
>I'm so bothered by other peoples beliefs
>you
>>17566620
Take that scientific process and shove it. Just because you are a science worshipper doesn't make science holy and sacred. The very foundations of science are entirely irrational and unscientific. If you can't contain your devout belief in your religion of science then just go and suck off Neil deNigger Tyson instead of coming here with your self righteousness.
I find it extremely funny that there are atheistd on this board of all places
If you find it easy to not believe in a religion what the fuck are you doing in a paranormal board?
