Hey everyone, a week or so ago someone made a thread about trying to find the Columbine "Basement Tapes". I'm not that guy, but the thread made me curious. I've spent the last few days reading up on the events and just getting some background info on what happened. I'm becoming pretty interested in the whole case and I'm not sure why. It was awful and completely heinous, but at the same time I can't help but put myself in the shoes of Dylan or Eric and try to figure out why they did what they did.
As others have pointed out, they weren't necessarily treated horribly, they were outsiders but many other kids have been bullied worse and haven't snapped like that.
I found a pretty interesting site that I'm sure most people have seen:
http://www.acolumbinesite.com/sitemap.html
And it's got a lot of interesting documentation and info about the whole attack. There are autopsy reports of both Dylan and Eric, and one thing I found that was interesting is only Eric was taking an SSRI. I assumed that they were both on meds, so this pokes a few holes in the theory that SSRIs caused their rampage.
But I'm sure you all know this stuff, so back to the thing we don't know about: "The Basement Tapes". Transcripts exist and can be found online, but no footage has ever been leaked or released. I find this strange, considering how much press the attack received. Hell, we have the boys' "Hitmen for Hire" video, as well as a video of them shooting out in the woods.
In the next couple posts I'll show some scans of a document containing an evidence list that was displayed publically in 2004. I think it may shed some light on the existence (or lack thereof) of the basement tape footage.
This can also be a general Columbine thread. I'd like to hear any input on anything about the Columbine shooting. Like I said I saw the other thread and have been strangely fascinated by the whole event for the past couple days due to it.
its hidden by the CIA in the dulce base storage closet bruh
>>17360635
I'm intrigued OP.
Gimmie mour.
I'd assume you're <25 like myself so we weren't really aware when this took place?
>>17360635
There's a link on the sitemap, which goes to a general evidence unveiling held in 2004. There are quite a few pictures which show just how devious the boys' plot was. Thousands of bullets, dozens of bombs, knives, gear, etc. It's incredible to see their weaponry and realize how much worse the carnage could have been. There's a quote on the wikipedia page for the attack by a student, in the library I believe, who said he/she overheard the boys say something akin to "shooting people is boring". This quote has stuck with me for a while because it paints the events in a strange light, but we can discuss that later.
Back to the webpage. This link:
http://www.acolumbinesite.com/evidence.html
Gives an overview of the evidence presentation. The first paragraph is also interesting, though I'm not sure if he's just talking about general footage (news stories and the like) or possibly footage found in the homes of the boys.
>I did make it out to the Columbine display last Thursday (and had more cameras in my face than I've ever seen at any non-prom-related function). While we waited in line to sign in, there was a table full of fact sheets (one for the videotapes, Sheriff Ted Mink's speech to the press and a printout of where people can obtain copies of the various tapes and reports that have been released) and HUGE evidence lists [see links at top]. The list has every piece of evidence, although some are only identified by their numbers rather than a description (this was the case for items that were returned to families).
The picture attached is the first page of the evidence. On the right most column we see that much of it was "Returned to Owner". I'm not 100% sure, but I assume that this means returned to the parents of the boys. Unless it possibly means that the evidence was simply returned to the state which now owns the items. If anyone could clear that up I'd appreciate it.
>>17360651
Now here's the second page. We can clearly see 8mm footage was recovered from Eric's home, but that's about the limit of the description. I believe the basement tapes were supposedly filmed on 8mm film, meaning that is probably the footage we're seeking. On the other hand, it could really be anything. You can see that it was "Returned to Owner", which I'm not sure of the meaning either.
>>17360643
I'm 23 now. We lived in Oklahoma when the attacks occurred and I was only 7, though I don't remember anything changing or even hearing about the attacks. I went to a small private school at the time, so it probably wasn't a priority to increase security on the campus. I was just so young that even if I saw it on the news or something I probably had no real way to understand what had happened. Still, it's such a crazy and horrible event that it seems so strange to be alive yet blissfully unaware of the carnage.
>>17360662
The final page here. As you can see, no footage or recordings were noted as coming from Dylan's home. I'm not sure how complete this listing is, or exactly what everything means but I believe it to be important in determining the fate of the infamous "Basement Tapes". While I find it unlikely that they will ever be released, I still believe they exist somewhere, locked away and most likely forgotten (possibly for good reason). A lot of hate, anger, and sadness was burned into that film. Is it better to keep it unreleased? The main logic behind not releasing them seems to be "as to not inspire copycats". Personally I don't find this logic incredibly convincing. The VTec shooting happened just a few years later and the death toll was double what it was at Columbine. Not only that, but Cho's personal videos were made widely available. The internet may have expedited the leaking of that footage, but plenty of other massacres didn't need any extra input from Dylan and Eric to be undertaken.
Will we ever see the footage? At this point I sort of doubt it. Perhaps a rise in public interest will drive someone to lift it out of hiding. Perhaps it has all been destroyed. It seems unlikely much will still exist after all these years, and even more unlikely any will come out. Still, as others have pointed out, both the defense and prosecutors of the case would likely have received copies.
>>17360677
That's about all the new info I have. The site I link to has a wealth of info, with just about anything you could want about the case. I'm not sure why the whole attack has me so intrigued. I typically enjoy more mysterious events, and something as well studied as Columbine would typically leave me bored. I think part of it is just the sheer amount of effort the boys put into the attack. The bombs, the guns, the plans. You can even see scans of the boys' school work and personal notebooks which is very interesting. While horrible and unimaginable, the events are captivating in a twisted way. I can't imagine what must've been going through Dylan and Eric's heads when they conceived their plans, but I feel as though the basement tapes would go a long way at helping people understand.
In a way, I could see how trying to understand their motivations and releasing the footage could make someone sympathetic to their actions. On the other, it's I believe more strongly that understanding why they did what they did will help us to fight against future acts of violence. The current narrative seems to be "well they were bullied and pretty much just antisocial losers, so they snapped, bought a ton of guns, spent months planning, and built dozens of bombs." While perhaps partially true, I think this explanation only just begins to touch on what they really believed. The official explanation makes predicting future shooters nearly impossible, as really anyone could just "suddenly snap". If we could understand the warning signs and perhaps "get into their heads", perhaps more people could learn how to recognise serious behavioral changes like this.
But I'm speaking out of my ass here at this point. I'll leave the rest up. Comment, disagree, agree, post theories and evidence if you have any. I can't be the only one morbidly fascinated by all this.
They were just tremendous betas, I was bullied probably harder than these faggots, but I never once thought of going on a rampage.
t. Autismos
>>17360827
This is interesting, though not surprising. Considering how long it's been with no leaks I assumed the originals had been destroyed. I assumed that copies were made and I believe the only way we'll see the footage is if a third party rediscovers a copy made.
>>17360834
However this is very interesting. Do you know if this was written before or after the sheriff's statement you posted above? This statement says not only did the writer NOT watch the tapes (only read the transcript written by a reporter) but also claims that it is possible to view them. If this was written after the sheriff's statement it confirms copies have been made and are on record. Even if it was written before, it still confirms copies were prepared for the press and/or legitimate researchers. The main takeaway from this post I believe would be to start investigating the Time magazine article he refers to. If we could get in touch with the author of that article perhaps we can find out more information.
>>17360926
Here's the actual Time article quoted in
>>17360834
http://content.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,992873-1,00.html
While the article begins with a dramatic retelling of the contents of the tape, the phrasing seems to almost exactly correlate to other transcripts. like the ones found here:
http://www.acolumbinesite.com/quotes.html
(forgot this part, correlates the Basement tapes to actual evidence numbers found
>>17360662
>>17360677
Namely:
#200 - No transcript
#333
#265
#298
#333-4-20-1999 - final message on the tape with evidence #333, I suppose it was considered a separate piece of evidence.
However, what I'm getting at here is the Time article seems to use the exact same quotes and emphasis as other transcripts. I'm starting to wonder if perhaps the authors of the Time article even watched the tapes, or if they pulled from a transcript someone else had made. The transcripts all read nearly identically, emphasizing certain moments.
So, if we consider for a moment that all the people who have reported about the tape have never actually watched it, but instead drew from a singular transcript, perhaps written by some investigator, then how can anyone say what's actually on the tapes? Why release a full transcript, but not the videos themselves? Is there a difference? I think the most likely answer is that there is a lot more to the basement tapes than is released on the official transcripts. If the logic behind not releasing the actual footage is to "not inspire copycats", then why release the transcript at all? The only explanation can be that we're only getting a portion of the actual events.
Columbine fags BTFO
Heard the're making a movie about the columbine massacre called "I'm not ashamed" or something. The trailer looks like christian propaganda or something.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1Fzxbv1f6E
What's the basement tapes? Why would they be hidden? Is there any theories?
>Not talking about the third man witnessed by multiple people
>Not talking about how this was the starting point of disarmament
>Thinking the unprecedented number of school shootings in such a short space of time since is coincidental
Jesus Christ what kind of board is this?
>>17361372
>>17361792
You know, this reads exactly like all the other transcripts available. That makes me think this is the original transcript, and all other talk of the Basement Tapes is just people reading this. Zimmerman states that a 2 copies of the tape were made, one retained by him and one given to an FBI agent. The original was most likely destroyed by:
>>17360827
Zimmerman most likely destroyed his copy as well. That means we're probably out of luck, unless the FBI retained their copy. I'm not sure what the FBI's policy is on retaining evidence, but they've got a lot more money to keep shit locked up than local sheriff's offices.
>>17361811
Sorry I guess I jumped in a little too deep right at first. The "Basement Tapes" consist of footage that Eric and Dylan shot showing their preparations for the shooting they were planning. The transcript of the footage has been posted numerous times now, but the actual footage has never been released.
>>17361824
Feel free to bring up your evidence, this isn't necessarily a thread limited to some footage that was most likely destroyed over a decade ago. I've heard about the third man but I couldn't find much more info about it. Do you know of any good sources? Maybe a recording of news reports or something?
>>17360635
It's been destroyed you god damn moron, do you always chase after things that are impossible to find or it's the first time you think that if, just if you cry out loud enough, it's going to appear in your face ? Tired of those fags asking for those tapes or Chubbucks one.
>>17362730
I agree with you, to a point. I do think it is extremely unlinkely we'll ever see those tapes. They were most likely destroyed, along with any copies, but I'm not giving up all hope quite yet. There is still a chance, however small, that someone, somewhere has a copy and might rediscover them somewhere.
Here's a breakdown of the action plan for lost media I've come up with
>verify the existence of the media
>account for any copies made and their location
>follow the official record of their destruction
>compare this to the known list of copies
>pursue those who may have access to the media and try to get it released
In this thread alone we have:
1. Confirmed that the tapes were real, verified on evidence lists
2. Confirmed at least three recordings exist. Two copies (one held by a CO investigator, one given to an FBI agent, and the original kept with other evidence). Alternate copies may have been made for the media/academics, though this is unclear
3. Confirmed the original was destroyed, and possibly the copy held by the CO investigator
4. Have not confirmed the copy held by the FBI agent was destroyed
So, while it is unlikely the tapes will ever be released, all hope is not necessarily lost.
Not related to the basement tapes, but I saw a thread a few years back that said there were apparently more than 2 people (Eric and Dylan) involved in the shooting. There was a link posted to a site about the conspiracy listing witness accounts of other suspicious people dotted around the school during the events.
If you mean my post about columbine tapes, pentagon and aurora then I thank you a million times over. I'd love to help anon, do u have a throwaway email so I can contact you?
>>17361809
Gotta love Christian propaganda. This looks so hilariously bad.
>>17360714
There are two types of people in the world when faced with adversity, the kind that get depressed, and the kind that get angry. I've always thought that it made more sense to get angry, and while I don't agree with that these kids did, I totally understand them.
>>17361824
Ugh. Confirm any of this with actual undeniable evidence and we'll talk about it
>>17362730
>>17363481
I also think that there is a copy of the footage somewhere. It makes sense not to release it, but to find a way to preserve the information.
>>17363525
I've seen some of this. There's numerous reports of students seeing three shooters. A lot of them said it was a guy named Robert Perry. He was apparently a short tempered dropout, but I could be wrong. If there was a third shooter, what was the reason for hiding it?
>>17363604
Apparently that may of been the one already arrested.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHefZGoJz24
Although I am not sure why they would hide this.
>>17363595
They weren't even bullied. They were normal kids.
>I totally understand them
No you don't. You didn't know them and you've based your "understanding" on some half-assed research you've done by reading other people's research.
>>17363595
>I totally understand them.
dude I'm sorry but you sound like one of those true crime blogs on tumblr
>>17363641
I just finished the Time article and that's not true. There was bullying, but that was just a small part of the bigger picture. This from the article here:
>>17361372
Evan Todd, the 255-lb. defensive lineman who was wounded in the library, describes the climate this way: "Columbine is a clean, good place except for those rejects," Todd says of Klebold and Harris and their friends. "Most kids didn't want them there. They were into witchcraft. They were into voodoo dolls. Sure, we teased them. But what do you expect with kids who come to school with weird hairdos and horns on their hats? It's not just jocks; the whole school's disgusted with them. They're a bunch of homos, grabbing each other's private parts. If you want to get rid of someone, usually you tease 'em. So the whole school would call them homos, and when they did something sick, we'd tell them, 'You're sick and that's wrong.'"
hey guys new to 4chan here, seen this and was looking for information on this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVe6XdYuT-I
just wondered her story and if shes being supervised ect. if nothing else maybe try bring this channel to someones attention cause it freaks me out.
cheers guys
>>17363755
>jock hates weird kids
Take what he says with a grain of salt. Unless kids who weren't in his friend group say the same, at least some of that is made up
>>17363755
You know, someone brought up the possible romantic attraction between Eric and Dylan in the last thread. Eric is considered by some to have been the ringleader of the two and possibly came up with the idea. Though, Dylan obviously held many of the same ideals, considering he went all the way through with the plan to the end.
I have a feeling this could ever be proven 100% accurate, but it adds an interesting angle to the case.
The best theory I've read about was from Dr. Robert Hare, the leading psychologist of psychopathy.
Eric was a psychopath, and Dylan was severely depressed. Eric was the ring leader and Dylan, in his depressive state had someone to constantly lean on, and thus being easy to manipulate.
The two combinations made for a dangerous powder keg of sorts.
source (plus other books):
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/assessment/2004/04/the_depressive_and_the_psychopath.html
For me, this is case is closed. For anyone else, I understand why the two are fascinating.
Being the victim of a psychopath, I completely understand it. Those that have never been in that situation, don't and never will understand.
>>17363676
Didn't know that there were true crime blogs, do you recommend any good ones? And when I was a teenager I wasn't bullied either, but I had school shooting fantasies just for the hell of it. It happens some times, and people grow out of it. Teens go through a lot of conflicting emotions, and sometimes they express it the wrong way and this kind of shit happens. You don't need to be an edgy psychopath to want people dead.
>>17364759
Slate, IMO, is a bit of a dubious source. Luckily this seems to be an older article and generally unbiased. I appreciate the insight.
Has Dylan's mother ever said why he wasn't on meds for his very obvious depression? Or was it not so obvious at the time?
And incase anyone wants to see the scans/transcripts of Dylan's journal, they can be found here:
http://www.acolumbinesite.com/dylan/writing/journal/jindex.html
The link to Dylan's journal on that site is broken, but with some header modification I found how to access it. There were a few other parts of that site with broken links, I'll try to remember them and try this method again.
I'd recommend to everyone to check out Dylan's journal. It's a complete 180 from Eric's. He was obviously a troubled young man with some interesting (or weird, I guess) thoughts on things. I read through it a bit and found it interesting.
>>17360635
>but at the same time I can't help but put myself in the shoes of Dylan or Eric and try to figure out why they did what they did.
They were just crazy, or at least Eric was crazy, Eric talked the other one into it kinda.
>>17361753
>>17361767
So we know for sure that SA John Elvig received a copy of the basement tapes while the FBI was in CO helping the local police in the investigation. I'm seriously considering submitting a FOIA request, I feel like that might really be our only chance to get the footage. I went online to the FBI's website and found this:
https://vault.fbi.gov/search?SearchableText=columbine
Which includes 4 .pdfs of material from the case. There is a mention of the footage in part 1, though nothing besides it being acknowledged. The rest of the docs seems to mostly comprise of heavily redacted conversations that were had between subjects and victims. Plenty of pages were deleted outright, but this is a pretty interesting record.
>>17360635
it was the fucking music they listened to, nothing more
>>17363595
> There are two types of people in the world
Quite reductive.
>>17360714
>t. Autismos
What's that "t" mean?
>>17361763
I'll bet this nigga's investigation was on par with his grammar.
>>17363755
Todd sounds like an asinine twat. I wonder where he is now
Burmp. Brooks Brown's AMA on reddit was a pretty good read.
>>17360635
I'm in your boat too, man. I can't stop thinking about it. Watching all the available documentaries, Zero Day, reading all the eyewitness accounts.
At times I feel like I get closer to understanding why it happened but then I realize it's impossible to fully understand.
The only pattern I've noticed is that they seemed to spare people who could articulate in any way why it was they felt they deserved to carry on living. If they begged or groveled they were shot, and if Columbine had more blacks in the library than just Isaiah Shoels I can almost guarantee they all would've been dead.
Has anyone been able to make sense of the reports of Eric bleeding from the nose toward the end of the library rampage? I think he had to shoot hastily and the recoil from his shotgun fucked up his nose or something.
schools are where youre initially brainwashed (along with television but in a different capacity).
you're taught to obey, youre taught the importance of the state, youre taught to be socialized, youre defanged, youre taught that there are consequences for not obeying your authority figures. amd it provides valuable remembers to the system to keep it astride the docile public. this is the beginning of your inculcation
schools are an extremely important tool to the system. to have them shot up for gun control doesn t make much sense.
this is the place where youths are first humiliated in life, destroyed internally, made to feel stupid, made to feel embarrassed, made to feel like they must behave a certain way, that they must go against their natural childhood insticts. all to become productive members for a society to use up in life.
it is not surprising in the least when youre aware of how they operate that schools are a prime target for the disillusioned, and the columbine kids gave birth to that idea.
the gun control argument doesn t hold weight. why? youre already so socialized that even if armed youre no threat to anyone worth a shit. the entire American constitution has been rendered a worthless piece of paper and people still won't rise up. your gov and conglomerates constantly lie and abuse you, youve all been stomped on a hundred times over and most of you will just keep on taking it till youre stomped in a grave. youre no threat.
the sandy hook shooting is the only that seems suspicious to me. but not for the sake of gun control, more like a sacrifice.
As probably the only anon in this thread who was 16 at the time this shit happened, I'm baffled at the recent emergence of "Columbiners" and the fascination the Internet has with the hours of footage these two dickweeds recorded of themselves.
Even though the shooting received a lot more media attention than it should, the authorities tried to do a decent job of not glorifying these kids. They were two industrial goth dipshits who tried to live out their fantasy of being the hitmen in Pulp Fiction. What is so interesting/appealing about that?
>>17366122
While it's likely impossible to ever figure out their true motives and feelings about life in general, reading their journals is haunting. Dylan was obviously a very shy, introverted boy. He was self conscious, vulnerable, and felt isolated. In my opinion he followed Eric's lead because he didn't want to lose anyone else. I linked to all his (released) journal entries here:
>>17365133
Just comparing them to Eric's journals, it's so different. Eric was full of hate, though apparently even he has his limits. Here's a post he made on one of his websites:
>YOU KNOW WHAT I HATE!!
>---RACISM!!Anyone who belives that blacks, asians, mexicans, or people from any other country or race besides white-american....people who think that should be drug out into the street, have their arms ripped off, be burnt suht at the stumps, then have every person of the race that YOU hate come out and beat the shit out of you. and if you are female, then you should be raped by a male from the race you hate and be forced to raise the child! You people are the scum of society and arent worth a damn piece of worm shit. You all are trash. And dont let me catch you making fun of someone just because they are a different color because i will come in and break your fucking legs with a plastic spoon. i dont care how long it takes! and thats both legs mind you.
There are distinct changes in writing as April 20th grows closer. It's crazy to think about what was going on around them in between the time they found to sit with a notebook and a pen.
And yes, I've read Eric's shotgun popped him in the nose after he fired it. As far as targetting anyone in particular, I don't believe that either. I'm starting to think the main goal behind their rampage wasn't to kill certain people at all. Like the Slate article said, their mission was larger than a handful of jocks or bullies. They came with enough firepower to nearly level the school, but only killed 12 people and then killed themselves.
I'm gonna lost some lesser known facts I found out about only recently after reading the eyewitness accounts.
>The Rebel News Network, the school's daily news broadcast, typically had a quote of the day at the end of each broadcast. Many eyewitnesses pointed out that the quote of the day on 4/20/99 was something along the lines of "This is not a good day to be here". Makes you wonder how in the fuck they managed to pull that off, even if you know they were involved with the audio/visual department.
>Creeped me the fuck out reading about Eric's nosebleed. Only read the first 330 or so paves and only two people mention this, both of which got a direct view of Eric toward the end of the library massacre. Now as an /x/phile my mind started fucking with me and I didn't know what to make of this at first. Cannibalism having to do with the knife killing they expressed they were interested in? As Evan Todd said, when he was having his exchange with Dylan Eric was aloof and seemed like he was in pain and out of his head, with quite a bit of blood coming out of his nose and around his mouth.
>At 10 years old Eric told classmates of his, and this was before he attended Columbine, that his father had been drugging him at the military base he worked at. Doctors confirm Eric was also taking the psychoactive drug Luvox prior to the rampage.
>If they really saw themselves as God-like they were actually more merciful than they were given credit for. They shoot and wound a girl, she crawls away saying "Oh God, Oh God". Dylan asks, "Do you believe in God?" "No. Yes." Then almost simultaneously Eric says "God is gay" and Dylan asks "Why?" She doesn't answer and Dylan again asks why and she says that's how her parents raised her. Now, this is EXACTLY the kind of sheepish mentality that by their own accounts they hated and were fighting against. Yet after she said this they actually did not shoot her again and she lived.
>>17366232
>Now, this is EXACTLY the kind of sheepish mentality that by their own accounts they hated and were fighting against. Yet after she said this they actually did not shoot her again and she lived.
It's bizarre how much bad luck the boys had that day. The bombs they spent months testing and formulating nearly all failed. Was it the adrenaline, did they forget things, or perhaps Dyan sabotaged some supplies because he got cold feet? The propane bombs they made could've killed nearly everyone in the cafeteria if they had gone off as planned. The boys had enough ammo and time to kill many more people than they did. They spent months and hundreds of dollars planning this, only for everything to fall apart. Obviously two depressed, angry, suicidal boys aren't making the best decision or in a great state of mind to think critically, but it still seems so odd that almost nothing actually worked. If you look at the evidence lists, plenty of additional bombs were left at their homes. Why didn't they take everything? Were some just duds? Did they change their minds?
From what I've read, the boys never even really planned to do much shooting. Timothy McVeigh was a major influence, they learned how powerful bombs can be in stirring up shit. The quote with them in the library, saying that they didn't find shooting people to be thrilling speaks to this. But if death was not their main motivation, then what was?
These are questions I believe the basement tapes can answer, and I think this is why they will never be released. When the feds or police control the narrative, it's a simple "They got bullied/they were mentally ill/they were just bad". I think the basement tapes delve deeply into why they were doing this. and what they hoped to accomplish. Those are the ideas that are dangerous. Enough kids already feel inspired by them with the little they know, but there's no telling how many more would be if they could really see Eric and Dylan's point of view.
>>17366232
He had a nosebleed from firing a sawed-off at someone using one hand in the library and the recoil made the barrel hit him in the face lol
>>17360635
It was your textbook case of folie a deux. You had the dominant one, Dylan, who talked the submissive one, Eric, into doing some seriously horrible shit. They fed off each other's delusions, and it led to this horrible tragedy. They were both likely suffering from mental issues, but I personally think Dylan was a sociopath who took advantage of Eric's depression and vulnerability to get himself a partner. Wasn't brave enough to do it on his lonesome. Plus there's the high of dragging someone down with you, I suppose.
As for why they did it, who knows. We never will. Sometimes, the only reason they have is they are batshit and have no appreciation for human life beyond their own. And even then, they made it clear they had no appreciation for their own lives. They could have felt the world wronged them, felt they were revolutionaries, or just did it because they didn't want to die alone. We can never truly know what went on in their heads, no matter how good of a profiler takes a look at their ramblings and such.
As for the Basement Tapes, they no longer exist. The sheriff had them destroyed, burned, along with much of the other evidence. There are transcripts left made by reporters who were allowed to view the tapes. I can say that from those transcripts, it was delusional ramblings of teenagers with a desire to die and the desire to take a whole hell of a lot of people with them, with no real 'deep' meaning behind it but being sadistic sociopaths. So feel free to keep looking, but you'll only be wasting your time. You won't be finding the tapes on the internet. They were incredibly stingy with what they gave out, and guarded that shit highly, not wanting to trigger any copycats.
>>17366332
Sorry, switch Dylan and Eric. Eric was the dominant, Dylan was the submissive.
>>17360714
This. They were 4Chan embodied. Sad /r9k/ twats with a /b/ complex, and probably a little bit of /x/ paranoia. In the end, whether people like to admit it or not, they were just sad sacks who fed each other's crazy shit until they broke.
>>17361824
That entire screencap gave me autism and cancer, both in my anus. Which is where that very info came from.
What about their small social circle?
I know they weren't the most popular kids in school..but there's a graduating class picture that shows the boys with a few other dudes in the corner.
Who are they?
Did they know of the plot?
Was the mysterious "third guy" in that picture?
>>17366332
>>17366340
you say that even the best profilers looking through their meaningless "delusional ramblings" wouldn't come up with the real reason this happened. but you spent the previous two paragraphs making up your own reasoning, surely based on deep research (considering that you mixed up eric and dylan altogether) that wasn't just bullshit you skimmed through from other people.
there is endless complexity in each human being. even among destructive, homicidal/suicidal teenage sociopaths. you don't know the truth any more than the rest of us but you go on to share your opinion and then tell everyone else that they're wasting their time by looking for the tapes (and deeper understanding of the motive behind this attack).
for what it's worth, i believe that there was no real leader in this case. it WASN'T simply a case of a dominant manipulating a submissive personality into this. at different times, each of the boys took different roles. if i was forced to identify either of them as the leader, i would actually ascribe that role to dylan like you initially said (in error). but in my research i've gone back and forth and really, it was more of a partnership than anything else. both of them were obsessed with violence and the idea of being superior to everyone else and both were deeply depressed, unhappy and full of rage.
you are right that each of them normalized these thoughts and behavior for the other one, though. they encouraged unhealthy beliefs in one another and they egged each other on in how "powerful" they perceived themselves to be and in what they could do to demonstrate this power to the rest of the world. i think if they hadn't been so close, neither of them would have done this themselves, but i also don't think it's as simple as you make it out to be.
and there's no proof that all copies of the tapes were totally destroyed. at the very least, i'm sure there's a full length transcript somewhere. i'd be happy with just that i guess.
>>17366974
Their group of social misfits were apart of the Trenchcoat Mafia, it was a thing at the time among teens/young adults and they both took it very seriously. That third guy was said to have really bad acne, a noticeable overbite, and was really tall and lanky. He was ugly enough to stand out but his name was never released in the official report I think. There were also witnesses who said they saw a balding blonde man in his 30s carrying rifles along with a few other kids who graduated or dropped out before the shooting. They both even talked about it months before it happened, they spread their own rumor about something happening on 4/20.
This whole thing has a lot of weird details surrounding it, like Eric telling his friends he would get dosed with LSD at 10 years old on the reg, though I forget where he would get drugged at (might've been the airport but not really sure) which smells like some monarch programming considering his dad was military. Also some of those Trenchcoat kids would make gay displays in front of the school to piss off and weird out all the other kids, though they weren't Dylan and Eric they were part of the same clique and they also hung out with older men who were known pedophiles/sadists/occultist. The fuck? This is why I want the basement tapes to be leaked, what the hell was going on in their heads? Depression is one thing but these guys wanted to spark a total upheaval of American society and shit, probably would have too if their bombs worked like they wanted them to. And like others have said were kind of obsessed with each other. There just really seems to be more to the story than just "two bullied teens take their suppressed rage out on the world" here and it's important because they were the first of their kind to blast people for no reason at a place where you're supposed to feel safest.
Its all in this documentary that was posted in the last thread, good watch for a yt documentary desu:
http://youtu.be/wx_iLIlqUVc
>>17367202
all that retarded autism
get a life bruh lmao
thank you there was a lot of really fascinating stuff in this thread
>>17367225
It's very interesting and is a contradiction to what we're told about the shooting, sorry you can't into conspiracy "bruh"
Go back to Twitter
>>17360635
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Folie_%C3%A0_deux
>>17367316
made up shit isnt "interesting" you beta incel
>>17367202
This gets at my interest in the basement tapes as well. The official story is either purposefully or accidentally left full of holes. Like many other tragedies, anyone who wants to dig further is labelled a " sympathiser " or otherwise "dangerous", which is an easy way to dismiss any interest in the case that doesn't follow the official police narrative.
What I believe is on those tapes is much more dangerous than the guns or bombs the boys brought to the school. Those tapes were made by the boys to distributed, and almost certainly contain the key to the logic in their actions. If the police can hide that info, and simply stick with the official story of them being " depressed loners", its much a much simpler picture.
Would the footage inspire copycats? Maybe. But we've had much more deadly shootings since then with what's out now. The internet makes it even easier to find out how to make bombs and acquire weapons now. It's important to keep in mind that columbine was meant to be a bomb attack, like in OKC. Guns were just a backup that ended up being their only means of killing. I think the boys got bored when they realize their whole plan had crumbled before they even started. The fact that they didn't personally send out copies of the basement tapes was just one more slip-up that made life easier for the cops.
The basement footage was planned to be presented to the parents of the victims in Dec 1999, but it was pulled and stored away. Our best lead is submitting a FOIA request to the FBI and hoping they retained the copy SA Elvig received from the LPD.
>>17367367
So you don't know how to read or google- what a shock. Keep hurling your super cool /b/ tier insults at me though it bumps the thread nicely
>>17367393
The parents have a lot of beef with the way the police handled the case, there was even inquiries about a coverup. It's been long enough I guess that people have started looking into it, surprised there isn't more out there. Just that short ass transcript. I find it hard to believe that not one person made a copy for themselves just because, there has to be something out there.
>>17367513
get a life bruh
t. alpha male
I was 13 when this went down, I had to stop dressing in all black and trechcoats because of ban and be a normie shit sucked
>>17367719
saved you from becoming a fedora tipping autist
i hope a jock punched u b4 pounding some teen cunt
Here's a website I found by searching "SA John Elvig":
http://www.portalofdallas.com/columbine/TOC.htm
Looks very web 2.0, but I can't find a date. Has some interesting videos and audio at the bottom. I downloaded one and it appears to still be operational. All images on the site are broken though, can't find a way to get them to load.
There's also a description on the length of the video tape under the "Glimpses of Dylan and Eric".
>Harris and Klebold left behind videotapes documenting many of their plans, their activities and their philosophies. One of the tapes was almost two hours long and taped on three separate occasions in March 1999. The second tape, about 22 minutes in length, was shot on two separate occasions on April 11 and 12, 1999. The third tape, 40 minutes long, was taped on eight separate occasions from early April 1999 to the morning of April 20, 1999. Harris and Klebold taped a tour of Harris’s bedroom and showed off their weapons and bombs. They recorded each other conducting dress rehearsals and they taped the drive in Harris’s car to buy supplies needed for their plans.
Now, that's essentially what we already knew, but this might be the first mention of the length of the tapes I've ever seen. Around 3.5 hours worth of footage in total.
>>17367740
Nah I was the only white kid in school the black girls found me attractive, the only people who hated me surprising were white wigged girls, columbine did force me to start working out and consult fashion for men. As for Dylan and Eric, they were victim complex fags who were more popular than most of this site, don't shed tears for those entitled shit heads
>>17367770
Only white male kid, there was plenty of wigger girls with blackcents
>>17360635
I know I'm late to the party, but read Columbine by Dave Cullen. He describes the content of the basement tapes described during interviews from some of the investigators that initially discovered them.
>>17361824
>that pic
this is why we need to unite together as Americans, we cant let skin color control us, make us hate each other. we need to rise to the height of the tall poppies, instead of bring them down to our level
>>17366300
It's interesting to note that in every transcript of the Basement Tapes, it always says [the boys go on to discuss their philosophies]. In other words we never get verbatim quotes about their philosophies, and if we did it could be very telling regarding their motivations.
As far as the pipe bombs you can tell from the transcripts they made them in batches (Alpha batch, Beta batch, Charlie batch, Delta batch, etc.), so it could be possible they refined their technique as they got better at making them and decided it wasn't worth the risk to bring along the more primitively-constructed early bombs.
As far as motivation I think it was a caveman inventing fire type moment. At some point in our species' evolution some primate got the idea that it would be cool to shoot and bomb his school. But the more he thinks about it the more it attracts him, because he realizes the relative ease in which it could be pulled off. This was the first major school shooting in America and our school security was simply not equipped to handle such a well executed pre-meditated attack.
What do yall make of the last shot of the Basement Tapes being a shot of the word "Clue" written on the wall with a burning fuse attached?
>>17368072
If things had gone according to plan, Dylan and Eric would have really blown the shit out of the school, and probably would've been badly mutilated by bombs themselves. Remember that the basement tapes were filmed for the express purpose of being released to the public, as a means to give everyone the reasoning for the attacks. I think they purposefully included a lot of foreshadowing and irony as a way to express their message. They were fans of cinema did other movie projects a few times. The logic behind it probably made more sense to them at the time.
I think using that line of logic, the shot of "CLUE" written on the wall was supposed to help Dylan or Eric's parents (I can't remember whose house they were at) realize that it was them who attacked the school. Basically later that day after the events Eric/Dylan's parents would come home hoping to find him, only to go into his room to see the writing + bomb drawing. That was theoretically enough to let people know he was the one that did the attack. Assuming that their bodies were too blown up to be ID'd right away.
>>17365799
Still in Littleton according to Facebook.
>>17364961
>when I was a teenager I wasn't bullied either, but I had school shooting fantasies just for the hell of it
sounds like an edgy psychopath
>>17363525
>>17363604
Over 100 separate eyewitnesses, 40 of them naming the same person as the 3rd shooter apparently.
>http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/columbineeight.php
>>17369255
Here's a letter someone sent to the FBI in regards to this. No response or discussion is shown. It's on page 30 of Part 1 of the FBI documents I linked to here:
>>17365540
Not sure if it's exactly related, but definitely something to consider
>>17367202
>Their group of social misfits were apart of the Trenchcoat Mafia,
this supposedly isn't true. they weren't exactly a part of the trenchcoat mafia (although they were friends with some of them and did wear trenchcoats themselves).
>This whole thing has a lot of weird details surrounding it, like Eric telling his friends he would get dosed with LSD at 10 years old on the reg, though I forget where he would get drugged at (might've been the airport but not really sure) which smells like some monarch programming considering his dad was military. Also some of those Trenchcoat kids would make gay displays in front of the school to piss off and weird out all the other kids, though they weren't Dylan and Eric they were part of the same clique and they also hung out with older men who were known pedophiles/sadists/occultist.
how much of this is accurate and sourced? if you have written sources for this info that would be great since the doc is 90 minutes long (unless you can tell me where it's mentioned in the doc so i can look for sources myself).
>There just really seems to be more to the story than just "two bullied teens take their suppressed rage out on the world" here and it's important because they were the first of their kind to blast people for no reason at a place where you're supposed to feel safest.
there definitely is more to the story and that description doesn't really get at the entirety of the situation leading up to the shooting but that doesn't mean it required outside inspiration. also, they were not the first of their kind to perpetrate a crime of terrorism or an attack in a school. they just did a lot of planning and a lot of preparing and accumulating weapons/ammunition and ended up killing more innocent people than most others that came before them.
i do wonder if there's more to the story that might be revealed on the tapes. i don't think it's as simple as some say but i don't think it's as complicated as you seem to think it is.
>>17367393
>The official story is either purposefully or accidentally left full of holes.
like what?
>Like many other tragedies, anyone who wants to dig further is labelled a " sympathiser " or otherwise "dangerous"
i agree and i don't share my interest in stuff like this with anyone in real life for fear of people thinking i'm crazy or homicidal.
>Those tapes were made by the boys to distributed, and almost certainly contain the key to the logic in their actions.
where did you hear that it was meant to be distributed? the transcripts we have were mainly discussing personal things that would be most meaningful to the people directly related to the school and the boys themselves. and what makes you think there is anything behind their actions that's logical?
> It's important to keep in mind that columbine was meant to be a bomb attack, like in OKC. Guns were just a backup that ended up being their only means of killing
this is not totally accurate. it was supposed to be a combination of both from the start. the purpose of the bombs was originally to a) draw police away from the primary scene by setting up diversionary bombs (which they did do semi-successfully) b) blow up the cafeteria killing as many people as possible (which didn't work because their bombs didn't go off as planned) and c) cause ensuing chaos that would allow them to shoot as many fleeing students as possible. (which they only accomplished by starting to shoot at people outside of the school). they didn't come with hundreds of rounds of ammunition and multiple guns for no reason.
they also had handheld pipebombs which they threw indiscriminately and didn't really end up hurting people as much as doing damage to the inside of the school.
>Our best lead is submitting a FOIA request
this would be great but i'm not comfortable making a request for this information. though i assume there are people who would have been willing to do it by now, so if it's not released yet it won't be any time soon.
tumblr loves dylan and eric now
>>17363755
>I just finished the Time's article
You're a fucking dumbass.
Read their jouranls, you simpleton. Eric and then Dylan.
Going off his journal, Eric is a:
>Narcisist,
>Psychopath,
>Sociopath,
>Braggart
And Dylan is a
>Depressive
>OCD
>Suicidal
Do your own fucking research, dumbfuck.
Here, I'll even drop the links to their journal for you. http://www.acolumbinesite.com/diary.html
I was in school when the shooting happened, I remember having no fucking idea what was going on and being evacuated. I lived in Littleton and attended an elementary school there, I was way too young to understand. I was only in 1st grade and my Mom wouldn't tell me what was going on, shit's crazy it wasn't too far away.
>>17366300
And just to think...
In an alternate universe, everything went off without a hitch.
>>17367768
i quoted some of this in the last thread but...
>When Time's reporter Tim Roche got access to the tapes, he wrote an article for the magazine on December 20, 1999, he said that there were five video tapes - the "Basement Tapes".
>After the article hit the public...Jefferson County quickly allowed the families to view them before they hid them in the vaults indefinitely.
>Westword, an online news source that has been in contact with the families (including Brian Rohrbough, father of victim Daniel Rohrbough, and an outspoken activist for the victims's families' rights) supports the claim that there were five tapes originally.
>The runtimes they offer for the videos is a vague "nearly four hours". My original notes on the tapes, taken from Time's magazine back in 1999, indicated three groups of times given: 2 hours, 40 minutes, and 22 minutes.
>CNN also makes mention of the five videos in an article from December 1999.
>In 2006, the courts allowed Jefferson County Sheriff Ted Mink (who took the job after John Stone) the choice to release the Basement Tapes to the public but he decided not to, on the basis that he feared that other troubled youths would see the tapes as a "call to arms" and a "how-to instruction video" to attack their own schools. He decided to release 946 pages of previously unreleased documents.
http://www.acolumbinesite.com/quotes.html
so they existed AT LEAST through 2006 in the possession of the jefferson county sheriff's department.
>http://www.portalofdallas.com/columbine/TOC.htm
and nice website you posted.
this has some interesting information on their associations at school and possible "other shooters." it seems to take the position that only eric and dylan were actually involved so if people are looking for proof of a cover-up, this isn't it.
http://www.portalofdallas.com/columbine/MAFIA_TEXT.htm
I was 17 when it happened.
I could give a fuck less if they were bullied or not. All I can say is after it happened, my school life got way fucking easier. A white kid in a mostly black and Hispanic school, it was a glorious event. Even then, I did feel bad for those that died, I wouldn't wish anyone to die like that, but it can't deny that it made a world of difference for the rest of my high school experience. All for the better.
>>17369676
Did you live in Denver too?
>>17369656
Well looks like that website is just a rip of this website:
http://extras.denverpost.com/news/colreport/Columbinerep/Pages/TOC.htm
This one has all the same info, but the images actually load. Kinda weird, but this one from the Denver Post seems a bit more legit. I guess the "Portal to Dallas" is just a mirror for whatever reason.
>>17369722
Nope, Connecticut.
>>17369763
Sorry about the name, I was fucking around on /pol/.
Last thing for tonight, I looked into submitting a FOIA request. I thought I could do it online, but apparently the FBI online request thing is down for the foreseeable future. I might begin drafting up a request to send by mail over the weekend, but we'll see.
>>17365714
second this, I don't get that fucking meme.
>>17371720
and the p thing too >:(
The first time I ever heard of the Columbine shooting was when I saw some drama documentary on discovery channel or something. I remember it was showing the events happening like a movie, and having some survivors speak occasionally to explain things. And each time they fired a shot, it explained what happened by cutting to a black screen with white text explaining injuries and fatalities.
Shit terrified me, I didn't want to go back to school after that
>>17369798
you should be able to e-mail FOI requests, at least you can in the UK.
>>17371788
I found it, it's apparently called Zero Hour Columbine of anyone's interested
>>17371855
I think we can email as well, I might do that. I need to submit proof of death of Dylan and Eric as well as some additional files.
>>17361809
The ever increasing postmortem martyrdom of Cassie Bernall
Next I bet they'll have her dying to save the lives of kindergartners.
>>17372044
it's sad that there are actual things we probably could have learned and taken away from this event but that so many people had their own agendas to push (in favor of christianity, against violent video games, against metal/rock music, against "goth" or obscure subcultures) that real lessons were never really learned.
>>17371720
>>17365714
It's an abbreviation of the finnish word "terveisin", meaning "regards"
Dylan was in the CHIPS gifted program as a young boy.
Eric was from a military family.
Both were on mind-altering perscription drugs.
Your answers:
Space kids?
http://mindcontrolblackassassins.com/2010/10/17/one-step-beyond-barack-obama-nasa-space-kids-the-secret-cyborg-project/
High-IQ Exclusion
http://polymatharchives.blogspot.ca/2015/01/the-inappropriately-excluded.html
Eric Tannenbaum
http://eric.ed.gov/?q=%22Tannenbaum%20Abraham%20J.%22
Quality Matters in the Transnational Education: Undergoing the GATE Review Process
http://sci-hub.io/10.1177/102831530000400104
Assessing Cross-cultural Competence in Transnational
Education: The Intercultural Development Inventory
http://sci-hub.io/10.1080/713669273
A Brief History of Gifted and Talented Education
http://www.nagc.org/resources-publications/resources/gifted-education-us/brief-history-gifted-and-talented-education
Tannenbaum primary sources
http://files.eric.ed.gov/fulltext/ED021888.pdf
UN Influence in Schools
http://www.unwatch.com/hl012604.shtml
Early Roots of Common Core
http://cherilyneagar.com/2013/04/early-roots-common-core-education-policy/
International Baccalaureate and Global Citizenship
http://www.crossroad.to/Quotes/Education/global-citizenship/ib.htm
>>17373074
Andrija Puharich
http://mail.blockyourid.com/~gbpprorg/mil/mindcontrol/hambone/puharich.html
Dr Andrija Puharich and "space kids"
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread687538/pg1
Joseph McMoneagle
http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/sociopolitica/hambone_info/People1.html
Beyond Telepathy, by Puharich
https://www.scribd.com/doc/234178630/Beyond-Telepathy
Gifted, talented and high ability: selection for education in a one‐dimensional world
http://sci-hub.io/10.1080/03054980701542096
Gifted Delinquents: What Do We Know About Them?
http://cyber.sci-hub.io/MTAuMTAxNi8wMTkwLTc0MDkoODApOTAwMjItNQ==/mahoney1980.pdf (gifted delinquents)
Anne R. Mahoney
http://www.du.edu/ahss/sociology/facultystaff/mahoney.html
The Frankfurt School and Critical Theory
http://www.iep.utm.edu/frankfur/
Sandia Labs
http://www.sandia.gov/about/community/education_programs/
Sandia + GATE
https://sites.google.com/a/avusd.org/sandia-elementary/school-programs/gate
https://archive.is/g1i8v
Lockheed martin Cloning Qubits: A New Way to Converse in Quantum Computing
https://archive.is/LvGAM
Lockheed's facial recognition contracts
http://money.cnn.com/2014/09/16/technology/security/fbi-facial-recognition/
Tavistock - must read.
http://educate-yourself.org/nwo/nwotavistockbestkeptsecret.shtml
The Human Meaning of Social Change
http://sci-hub.io/10.2307/2061932
Youth in Transition
http://www.psc.isr.umich.edu/dis/infoserv/isrpub/pdf/Youthintrasitionvol1_2569_.PDF
Americans view their mental health: A nationwide interview survey.
http://psycnet.apa.org/psycinfo/1960-07735-000
Stargate
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stargate_Project
Edwin May
http://archived.parapsych.org/members/e_c_may.html
Deborah Sarkesian
http://state-employees.findthedata.com/d/a/Deborah-Sarkesian
This information can and has been used to solve Columbine.
It can and is being used to continue "Columbine" as a phenomenon.
The story I've heard was that Eric Harris was a sociopath and Klebold, a clinically depressed kid with no friends, basically became his lackey because he knew he couldn't do it alone.
>>17360635
Have you heard about the short story Dylan wrote for his teacher that was supposed to almost mirror what they did? I don't know about you, but I found it more interesting than the Basement Tapes sounded.
http://www.columbine-online.com/journals/columbine-dylan-klebold-killing-preps-english-story.htm
i came across these essays about the lives and motivations of dylan klebold and eric harris. i can't vouch for 100% of the information and it's a good amount of speculation about things we can't be certain of (and i would even go as far as saying it idealizes or romanticizes them) but it gives more than just a brief caricature of the shooters and it appears to be well researched and basically rooted in reality based on what i've read myself, so i feel like they're worth sharing.
http://columbinemassacre.forumotion.com/t482-the-gifted-mind-dylan-klebold
http://columbinemassacre.forumotion.com/t487-the-divided-mind-eric-harris
>>17361372
>http://content.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,992873-1,00.html
I enjoyed your post anon. I haven't thought along your lines yet , but it makes a lot of sense.
>>17369623
Why would I read their diaries you fucking retard. If some 16 year old angry bitchy faggot posted their bullshit on here I wouldn't bother reading it. There are plenty of narcissistic, psychopathic, sociopathic, braggart, depressive, OCD and suicidal crap on Tumblr. Your angry autistic heroes Eric and Dylan weren't all that special.
i heard columbine was a false flag attack
is that true
>>17373856
Thanks for the input, I'll give them a read later today. I have some more school work to catch up on but I should be finished with the FOIA request by Sunday I think too.
>>17374480
it's pretty fucked up when researching a subject for yourself and sharing information you perceive to be accurate is interpreted as hero worship. you snidely dismiss anything they (or we) have to say but at the same time you make your own ignorant judgements of them and everyone else.
you and i can agree on the fact that what they did was unequivocally wrong and in the end they were too cowardly to face life if people weren't going to elevate them the way they elevated themselves, but i still think it's reasonable for anyone to wonder why they would go to such extremes.
maybe there is something to be learned. maybe every person should have a chance to be heard, no matter how ugly or angry or immature what they have to say is. this situation gives us insight into humanity and the desperate mindset that leads to every tragedy like this. this story is laced with all kinds of missed warning signs and half-hearted attempts at surreptitiously revealing the plan to other people.
it's not just edgy autistic teenagers that want to know why columbine went down the way the it did. it's totally understandable why people think there is insight to be gained here. to have two very angry and sad but ultimately pretty normal teenage guys reject humanity to such an extent that taking the lives of their peers was a good idea, is a disturbing thing to see happen, and to see it play out in their writings is to understand that it was not a case of "two bullied teens snapping one day" but a long term dehumanizing of others and many situations that almost no one bothered to intervene into, and that almost no one took seriously until it was too late.
you can be dismissive but at least be informed. maybe the blame lies solely with these two boys but if there's anything to be gained here, you can't just throw up your hands in disgust and reject any insight that might be gained.
maybe i've ranted a bunch here but if you don't feel this topic is worthy of your time, don't click.
>>17374776
Two autistic angsty teen queers fill diaries and make videos "Hurr durr the whole world will see our rage and feel our wrath" and you try to put them on a pedestal on a paranormal board, "Golly gee, they so deep and we could learn from them." Maybe you and that nutty YouTube chick should hook up and make action figures or something, if your tulpa allows it.
>>17374918
>>17360635
To be honest, i dont give a fuck about the subject. But OP, you made a damn nice thread
>>17374918
/thread
OP is now a proven nigger
>>17374638
the other kids were crisis actors. the town doesnt even exist
>>17374480
I wouldn't mind reading the diaries of some murderers, seems interesting
>>17374918
i never said that we could learn anything from their philosophies. they were teengers and knew almost nothing about the real world.
what i did say is that we can learn something about how they ended up where they did. the goal would be to identify combinations of behavioral and personality traits that are dangerous warning signs of a future explosion of extreme violence.
i absolutely can't stand the youtube woman you refer to, i don't play with children's toys and i don't have anything to do with tulpas. plenty of credible journalists have studied this story (and other stories like it) in order to glean some meaning in this event. criminal profilers do deeply researched studies of the minds of all kinds of murderers. do you have the same disdain for them that you seem to have for me? i doubt it.
you are the one projecting a fantasy personality onto me. you are the one with sarcastic and insulting comments that add nothing to the thread. you are the one acting childish and getting butthurt because others dare to delve into subjects you find upsetting or don't approve of. i won't bother responding to you again, but your own behavior suggests that you are the one elevating them to a status beyond what they deserve. do they really frighten you so much that you couldn't bear to read their diaries?
grow up. they weren't monsters. they were teenage boys who had normal lives and the better we understand why things went wrong, the more likely we'll be to prevent things from getting so out of control in the future. my interest with columbine and similar cases has nothing to do with admiring any of the perpetrators, thinking they were right or that they were "deep" (to speak in your own juvenile terms). it is a desire to understand the extremes of human behavior and to understand how things could go so wrong.
not that i really believe you'll take anything i say to heart, but you need to keep your mouth shut about things you're not willing to try to understand.
>>17375140
that's newtown.
>>17375429
it really isn't either one.
Cool thread OP. I'm from Brazil and there was a pretty gnarly shooting over here a few years back. There's some info on it (aswell as the guy's videos) readily available to you. Just felt like contributing something to the thread.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rio_de_Janeiro_school_shooting
Why do we care about this shit? Its just some fags, this isn't even the most interesting school shooting imo.
>>17375662
which one is most interesting?
>>17375662
I believe that watching the footage will help to explain why Dylan and Eric did what they did. The Columbine attack really changed things in American schools, whether we want to admit it or not. and so I think the footage should be released. If more people can begin to understand Eric and Dylan's point of view on the whole incident, it may help others who have friends or kids in the same situation.
The more information we can get from these events, the more we can learn. The official story behind the Columbine events, I feel, is shallow and rushed. I'm not sure exactly what we can learn from the basement footage, but I believe it would be more beneficial than harmful to make it publically available.
>>17361809
Funny thing is that if that shit had gone down in a latin american country, the girl would've probably turned into a folk saint that performed miracles. There would've been a shrine at the school where people did pilgrimages to ask for the health of their children or some shit like that.
In the US, though, she gets a shitty movie.
>>17376505
>I believe it would be more beneficial than harmful to make it publically available.
No way, with all the E&D sympathizers and worshipers out there releasing the tapes will do nothing but rile up those sickos to the point that it may happen again just because they were released. Do some research and look at some of these sites where people after almost 20 years still worship these 2 idiots and youll see what I mean. Theres already enough damaging info out there and enough wannabe copycats to revisit the whole tragedy again.
They were 2 emotionally disturbed kids with inferiority complexes who had no means to control their fantasizing and publically releasing the rest of their delusional rantings wont change or help anything other than satisfying some peoples curiosity who were in no way affected by the shootings at all. The tapes were probably destroyed as the police have said anyway its been close to 20 years and they have all the info they deem necessary already.
>>17366177
Underrated.
And checked
>>17361809
I'm disturbed that they'd make off of such a horrible thing.. and then connect it to God as if dying for a God proved something..
is the guy who was thinking about doing a FOIA request around? have you changed your mind?
>>17379099
Yeah, I'm the OP. I haven't had a chance to write up anything yet. I've got a lot of school work to catch up on tonight/tomorrow. Hopefully tomorrow I'll have a good working draft typed up and I'll post it here.
>>17377792
I disagree for reasons I've stated before in this thread. I don't believe the logic that this footage will inspire any more shootings than the boys already did.
We don't seem to have a problem in America with inspiring kids to shoot up their schools, but we do have a real problem in explaining why they do it. We are always shocked when it happens, and we never know what to say. Conservatives blame violent video games or music, liberals blame the guns, Christians blame the lack of God in schools, etc etc. We all look for concrete things to blame which can be banned or limited or whatever. The much more uncomfortable truth, in my opinion, is that the cause of these tragedies is "none of the above". Easy access to guns, isolation, violent media, and many other things deemed the "cause" of school shootings are seen in many kids and young adults. Why do the vast, vast majority of people seem to get along just fine with these while a minority goes down the path of extreme violence?
The real answers may be hidden in evidence collected but never disseminated for the fear that it will "inspire" more school shooters. So we're caught in a catch-22. Without crucial, deep, meaningful insights into the lives and thoughts of these disturbed people, how can we ever truly begin to understand these violent actions? How can we come to a truly satisfying answer, grounded in logic and backed up with facts? We can blame things all we want, but I believe this is a useless and ultimately futile path. Blaming things has not and will not stop these tragedies, as we've seen time and time again in America.
>>17360714
Watched something on Netflix or some shit about these boys. Apparently they were actually popular.
>>17379325
I dont know how much you have actually researched this shooting but there are still kids being caught planning these shooting who are citing Columbine as their main influence. One kid even had a breakdown of how he would change things and do it right this time. Like I said before rehashing this and bringing back up again is dangerous, not to mention the fact that there are other people(survivors,victims families) who just want to move on and they should be respected. 10-15 years ago the tapes should have been released but now they serve no purpose but to make the people who suffered have to live through all that again.
Theres nothing more to learn from any of this, they felt slighted by their peers and society and lashed out. Its pretty cut and dry. The public really has no need for these tapes, unless they are released to only qualified medical professionals who could study them but they arent going to find out anything they already dont know if the tapes do still exist at all. Its been 17 years its best to let it all rest as a show of respect to the victims who were actually affected by this, Im sure it would be interesting but there is really no need for any of it except to satisfy morbid curiosity no matter how you spin it,
>>17379325
>Yeah, I'm the OP. I haven't had a chance to write up anything yet. I've got a lot of school work to catch up on tonight/tomorrow. Hopefully tomorrow I'll have a good working draft typed up and I'll post it here.
thanks for the response OP
as for everything else you said, i pretty much agree with what you say about these shootings in general. i have some doubt that the basement tapes would really be an ultimate explanation but considering that they're being kept from the public, maybe i'm wrong.
i would hypothesize that the same people who discourage this line of inquiry are the people that are satisfied with whatever easy excuse/scapegoat the media focuses on every time something like this happens. the kind of people who go "what a shame" and then forget about it until another bunch of people get murdered. the kind of people who see the perpetrators as monsters who were never really human in the first place. i think people who spend time trying to figure this out for themselves quickly see that they were very much human despite their deeds.
for me the big question is how these people decide to cross that line between feelings of anger and resentment to the act of violent revenge. and why they cross that line when so many other people find ways to move past their rage. is it truly a mental illness that manifests with violence (considering that most mentally ill people are generally more likely to be victims of violence than perpetrators) or is it a maladaptive mindset created in an attempt at survival in this society that eventually warps their entire outlook and leads to their destructive and tragic outbursts? i think people would rather place 100% of the blame on the murderers than acknowledge that society repeatedly makes it's own mistakes that help move the desperate situations along until the point of no return.
there's some interesting stuff in here about mass/school shooters if anyone cares.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MXEcB4vBkA
>>17379507
>Theres nothing more to learn from any of this, they felt slighted by their peers and society and lashed out. Its pretty cut and dry.
how many people feel "slighted by their peers and society"? how many people go on to murder a bunch of people? how is that cut and dry?
if there are still kids out there who feel they can relate more to heinous mass murderers than the people in their schools, why should we ignore that? why in hell do we allow our children to feel so alone? why do wait to pay attention to them until they do something unforgivable?
you can pretend it's morbid curiosity all you want but i want answers and solutions. i don't want any other kids out there to feel so marginalized and rejected that they feel that this is the only way people will listen to them or the only way that they will ever matter in the world.
maybe you had a peachy time in school but there are plenty of people who know how heartbreaking and soulcrushing growing up is. and how harsh and individuality-discouraging school is. and you admit yourself that there are tons of kids who identify with eric and dylan.
so instead of pretending that it's eric and dylan's fault that these kids identify with them, maybe we should try to figure out why.
>>17379638
I understand all of that but what does releasing them to the public accomplish other than satisfying certain peoples morbid curiosity? Put the tapes in the hands of qualified professionals who deal with this shit the average /x/ 4chan poster has no need for it.
>>17379668
i already said that i don't know if the tapes would actually solve anything but i can't give you a real answer because we don't know what's on the tapes. i still think it's worth considering.
i suspect that if you weren't complaining about us wanting to see the tapes you'd just be complaining that the topic is being discussed at all and that we're just turning them into "heroes" for the fucked up. maybe i'm jumping to conclusions about you specifically, but it seems that people can't stop jumping into threads like this to make moral judgments about me and other people who don't say "they were just angry pussies, end of story". but very few have done any research of their own about this or any similar occurrences. if they had, they'd know that the problem is that these kids are allowed to slip through the cracks every time because there's no easy answer to their problems.
you also didn't really respond to anything i said in my post, beyond repeating that the tapes won't tell us anything, so i'm reluctant to put any more effort into a response.
>>17379728
Like I just said there is no need for the general public to get a rehash 20 years later. What are you going to do with any info on those tapes? I work in child psychology/ crisis management and had to do loads of research on this case. So I have an extensive background in the Columbine case if you really need to know. Im not making moral judgements on anyone but theres a whole side of this tragedy that youre ignoring and its the people who were directly affected and the time it already took them to heal if they healed at all.
There is no answer to any of these shootings other than the emotional/psychological state of shooter at the time of the incident and in this case E and D both had multiple symptoms which have already been explained in the info which has been released. Go to your local college and enroll in some psych classes and you will see it plain as day.
Go ahead with your fruitless search for tapes you will never get. Alot of professionals with pedigrees higher than you or I have already tried and couldnt do it. Im finished, no need to debate over something you really have no understanding about to begin with and will never accept an answer to anyway.
>>17366217
I see some /pol/ potential on this
>>17375334
>they were teengers and knew almost nothing about the real world.
>they weren't still indoctrinated
ftfy
>>17361781
>Then they discuss how the videos will be cut into little pieces and they will show the public what they want it to look like
This is exactly what happened, that's why they released some stuff from the videos that fit the narrative they wanted and buried the rest.
The full tapes will never surface. Case Closed.
>>17360714
Weren't they bullies?
>>17379909
>I work in child psychology/ crisis management and had to do loads of research on this case. So I have an extensive background in the Columbine case
no offense but i don't believe you for a second.
>Im not making moral judgements
you are. you are saying that i'm insensitive or wrong because i'm ignoring the victims and that my motivation is inherently selfish morbid curiosity. you are also repeatedly implying that i'm ignorant and pretending that there's some easy explanation for why this happened but you never responded to
>how many people feel "slighted by their peers and society"? how many people go on to murder a bunch of people?
until you can figure out who blows up and who doesn't, this topic is valid.
>theres a whole side of this tragedy that youre ignoring
fair point that i haven't mentioned the victims much and this could likely open old wounds.
>Go to your local college and enroll in some psych classes and you will see it plain as day.
throw in some condescension for fun?
>There is no answer to any of these shootings other than the emotional/psychological state of shooter at the time of the incident
which is what would be directly revealed to the public if the police were to put the tapes out there. maybe nothing would come from it. maybe someone would see their classmate/child/student saying the same type of things or having the same emotional turmoil as the shooters and instead of ignoring it because it's easier, they would take it seriously and try to help them.
>Im finished, no need to debate
fine with me. this has all been an attempt to derail the thread anyway.
your appeal to emotion to keep the facts of the story under wraps is transparently based on your own gut reaction. you want to make symbols out of the innocents and make it off-limits to talk about the bad guys. i want to shed light on how things like this keep happening. i think i'm okay with that.
>>17369589
what the fuck
>>17380004
i don't know if i understand what you mean by
>they weren't still indoctrinated
so everything i say may be useless to you, but whatever
if you are saying that they broke out of the societal mold and saw things wrong with the world that many of their peers did not care about, you are correct.
if you are implying that they acted on this knowledge in a reasonable way, i disagree.
they might have been a little more (accurately) critical of the world's failings than their peers and that may have led them to feeling totally isolated but they were completely incapable of examining their own behavior. they could point out everyone else's flaws (YOU KNOW WHAT I HATE?!?) but they couldn't for one second admit to their own mistakes or failures.
they complained about racism and bullying and the social hierarchy that kind of labeled them as outcasts but eric also wrote about how homosexuality was wrong and retarded people should all die and dylan was noted as threatening to kill a learning disabled student at one point. they couldn't see or didn't care about their own hypocrisy.
if they were smart enough to see that things should be different, they weren't smart enough to figure out how to make it happen. instead their philosophy became exactly what they claimed to hate. and they did nothing but reinforce negative stereotypes about people who are shy, weird, depressed or don't fit in.
so yes, in a sense, they were no longer indoctrinated by certain lies we're told from birth. if they had stayed confused a little longer, maybe things would have been okay. they would have grown up. but instead, they re-indoctrinated themselves with huge amounts of hate for other human beings and grandiose notions about themselves. they worked hard at being angry. they falsely elevated themselves to a point where they were gods in their own minds and "proved it" to the world by passing violent judgement over people, regardless of whether those people objectively deserved it.
Their futures were threatened.
Because they were social rejects, they were labeled as mentally ill, and they were exploited by the school system and justice for grant money.
Most people conveniently forget they were arrested before this, and they agreed to be labeled ill and go undergo counseling ordered by the courts [thereby increasing funding for both the social service and school system] instead of jail.
See, it's not really a mental illness if people are allowed to bargain between "treatment" (they received none by the way, only sold drugs on the tax payers dime) and jail time.
Their diaries and the basement tapes cover how society is bullshit (and it is, only naive would call that statement edgy...read a sociology or philosophy book sometime), and about how the greatest revenge on societies fakes and exploitation (bullies) would have to be caring as little for them as they did for others, but taking it to an extreme absurd level in order to show the world an enlarged image of itself.
They also thought they were smarter than others (1 of them was actually gifted, bwt), and thought school was stunting them. After having feces flung on them, and being told they were now under the thumb of the psychiatric and social service system with a strike on their record, they saw no good options left and decided to laugh it off and blow the school up.
Basically they were backed into a corner and went straight psychotic because their dignity was threatened during a time when most teenagers battle with depression and narcissism (egotism is sometimes a defense mechanism). So they started to bully back and killed people as an attempt to get back at people.
The facts are that their parents never paid them any attention, and instead drugged their kids and passed off all responsibility to the school, judicial and social service system.
They were told they had no rights.
What did every one think was going to happen?
They were going to act like broken dogs?
Beaten dogs bite.
>>17366177
yes but the shootings also make students fear each other therefore they create more need for stronger locked down institution and further isolate "weird" kids, read:nonconformists, through fear that they might be a future shooter.
>>17362730
Why are people so desperate for these tapes? The transcripts exist, it just sounds like a bunch of disturbed teens rambling
>>17371788
Same here, saw the zero hour documentary on tv and it fascinated me.
>>17380324
i feel like you made a lot of important and true points here but you also twisted some of the facts.
eric harris was on a therapeutic dose of the psych drug luvox at the time of his murders, absolutely. doctors like to deny this shit (especially back in 99) but i know from personal experience that some of these meds can make you more angry and prone to violence, so it's valid thing to bring up. on the other hand, dylan klebold was not found to have any drugs in his system at the time.
the boys were arrested for attempting to steal some electronics (i believe) from a van. it was their choice to break the law and it was their choice to plead guilty and accept treatment. i know that eric (not sure about dylan) went to anger management therapy, but as he stated in his own writing about it, anger management doesn't do anything unless you choose to make it work. we know for a fact that these boys both fed their anger instead of trying to control it.
my point here is that you can pretend that the system was working against them, but in reality, they tried to keep these boys out of jail and get them some help for their anti-social (criminal) behavior. the boys made choices that limited their freedom and then resented other people for it instead of blaming themselves. you would be mistaken if you did the same thing.
i don't see how you can blame anyone for trying to get either of these boys into treatment, by the way, because it was clear that they needed it.
while i totally understand why you would say
>Beaten dogs bite.
they still had plenty of options left. both boys were smart enough to go to college and make a difference in the world in a positive way. every adult gave them the benefit of the doubt at every step. they threw it all away.
i understand that they were hurting. i understand that there are valid reasons for feeling the way they did. but there is still no excuse for what they did. they were not dogs, they were humans. they had a choice.
>>17380632
why would the police withhold the tapes on the grounds that it would inspire copycats but release a complete transcript that could have the same effect?
the transcripts do not include all of what is on the tapes.
>>17380894
>they still had plenty of options left. both boys were smart enough to go to college and make a difference in the world in a positive way. every adult gave them the benefit of the doubt at every step. they threw it all away.
and i also have to point out that they did this in their senior year, after dylan went to prom, and a couple of weeks before they both graduated. they were about to be free forever from the little high school world that made them so angry.
they made a conscious choice that they did not want to have a future.
>>17360635
I read they were found and kept in a vault and just a few years ago they brought in family members of anyone mentioned in those tapes and they sat down and were shown them. They then decided 2 could be released (I'm sure you can google them) only one of which is in the basement. The others where then destryed. This is what I recall reading, I could be wrong on some of those details
>>17366177
Very underrated post. Also Sandy Hook would be a good thread
>>17381105
>Also Sandy Hook would be a good thread
not if you're going to RP that it didn't happen, though. we had a thread on lanza's motivations a couple weeks ago and that's what a lot of it devolved into.
>>17381137
I would hope that's not what happens. I'd like to actually discuss it especially since I don't really know much about it
>>17380898
Parents of victims have seen the tapes, if there was a conspiracy I'm sure the parents wouldn't keep tight lipped about it desu. I don't think there is too much mysterious about the columbine shooting.
>>17381214
all i said was that they haven't released the complete contents of the tapes and as far as i know, that's true.
>>17380104
> this has all been an attempt to derail the thread anyway.
The suspicious type may even think he has a motive for doing so.
>>17381465
100% off-topic. Please start your own thread if you want to discuss that.
>>17381468
I'm in agreement it's off topic, though it's hilarious that you leap upon me instead of the first person to actually mention it here.
>The suspicious type may even think he has a motive for doing so.
>>17381521
i'm the person you responded to with that sentence in the first place. i said >>17380104 and you agreed that the guy was trying to derail the thread.
now i ask you not to derail the thread with sandy hook and i'm suspiciously "leaping upon you?"
i want to see a thread stay on topic all the way through for once. this is a columbine basement tapes thread and a columbine general thread.
if you want to go on about mass shootings you don't believe happened, feel free to make a thread of your own. this is not the place for that discussion. if you have actual evidence that columbine was somehow faked, feel free to post it in this thread.
if you keep trying to derail, i'm just going to ignore and report from now on.
>>17361824
This whole screencap it's like soviet propaganda and should nothing to do with /x/.
Go to /pol/ and die pls.
why dont you just read the transcripts of the tapes,theyre all on the internet? The parents of the kids killed and law enforcement have already seen them years ago. They serve no purpose so they are gone its been proven and if anything unreleased was on them that contridicted the facts as we know them the kids parents would have spoke up by now.
>>17361824
This is important.
Read it, before you make up your minds.
>>17382159
If the transcripts are an exact record of what is on the tapes, then why release the transcripts but not the tapes?
Secondly, do you have a definitive source which states who has watched the tapes. As far as I can tell, no one besides a handful of investigators have actually seen the tapes. The Time article in Dec 1999 quotes nearly word-for-word the transcript dated 4-28-1999. In fact, nearly every transcript of the tapes is a copy of the transcript made on 4-28-1999. As far as I can tell, none of the parents of those killed ever saw the full contents of the tapes. They may have seen short clips, but from what I can figure the Sheriff's office blocked the showings of the tapes. The parent's tried to sue, which ultimately resulted in many other documents pertaining to the case be released, but never the actual footage. The release of so much supplementary evidence seemed to be considered adequate by the courts, and allowed the tapes to stay unreleased.
>>17372885
So it can be used in two diffeent contextsd, one to say thankyou and one to say regards, as if you are sending a letter?
>>17368050
>As far as the pipe bombs you can tell from the transcripts they made them in batches (Alpha batch, Beta batch, Charlie batch, Delta batch, etc.), so it could be possible they refined their technique as they got better at making them and decided it wasn't worth the risk to bring along the more primitively-constructed early bombs.
this seems like an accurate assumption considering this page from eric's journal. the earlier ones were rated lower here.
As most of you all, I'm fascinated by the case, and have been for years now. I've read so many books on the case and researched so much about it. A week ago I was staying in Denver for my girlfriend's and I anniversary, and decided to drive through littleton and visited the school. The high school was having some debate night, so it was pretty busy in the parking lot, so i wasn't able to really walk the campus at all which I was bummed about. But being able to see it really blew my mind. It was an intense feeling, I think only because of how obsessed with this case I am.
I recommend you guys visiting the campus. Obviously it has been remodeled a little but it still feels very surreal being there.
bumping once before i get offline so OP can update us on the planned FOIA request, if he or she has the time.
I feel that Eric deeply felt disillusioned and disatisfied with life. Basic things that humans are forced to accept, completely enfuriated him.
Dylan was deeply angry too and this was more internalised. You can see it in Hitmen for Hire and the "bike advert".
There are three possible relationships:
Eric led and Dylan followed
Dylan led and Eric followed
They both fed off eachother (my opinion)
I believe Dylan brought the idea up, maybe as a joke, after the "January incident". But Eric kept it up and actualised it. (Arrests, DK: both of them thought of breaking into the car or EH: Dylan thought of breaking in, who do you believe?)
If you listen to the leaked tape (about the "Godly little whores"), Dylan says something and Eric pushes it further. Their hatred bounced off eachother. Some think Dylan used Eric as his method of revenge and suicide (and vise versa). He was lazy and could sit back while Eric was foaming at the mouth, planning more intricately.
In the diversion papers, Eric honestly did want to get better. He was honest and even admitted to homicidal/suicidal thoughts, but was ultimately let down and (maybe) misdiagnosed with OCD. But Dylan didn't. He tried as hard as he could to seem like a normal guy (even though his journal admits obvious suicidal, homicidal (and some might label schizophrenic) thoughts).
Both of the boys wanted to kill and die. They wanted to kill jocks, but during, they actually did more damage to the building. I think the shooting honestly was to represent their utter hatred of Columbine.
On the day, Eric's goal was "who's next?" and saw the suicide as his final, only option. Dylan's goal was "I'm gonna die today!" and saw murder as his only way of finally being able to kill himself. I don't think they wanted to die alone. They wanted to kill and die together.
>>17366177
Sounds a bit like how Lanza felt about society
https://sandyhooklighthouse.wordpress.com/2014/01/08/audio-of-sandy-hook-shooter-adam-lanzas-call-in-to-a-radio-show/
>>17366300
Wasn't the main bomb made with the blueprints from the Anarchist's Handbook? Because i always thought that was notorious for it's failures and mistakes
>>17382238
Because kids who want to copy Columbine are fucking stupid. Do you think they have the patience to read all that shit? Also do you think a sad movie would have the same effect on you if you just read the script? Same idea.
>>17373105
Actually, Dylan was known to have more friends than Eric. Eric was more on the outside circles of the friendship group, and considered Dylan his one and only best friend.
Dylan, considered Eric and two others his best friend. In fact, earlier on, he considered planning with someone else (Zach?). Many think Eric was more reliant on Dylan than Dylan was in Eric.
Eric's birthday was April 9th and only 2 came to celebrate in 1999, Dylan and Robyn
>>17380014
They were bullied but were bullies as well. They had a lot of anger and took it out on those weaker than them. (Some say Columbine bred a social Darwinist culture/attitude). There are instances where Dylan "bullied" or hit girls, for example. But there are instances of the boys getting pushed into lockers (and a few confusing "ketchup" incidents but this has little explanation).
I know Dylan said to his parents that he was tall, so people didn't pick on him. I can't remember any specific bullying incident involving him. Does anyone else know?
Also, Eric wrote in his journal that people picked on him. He was a small guy and had a chest thing (where it goes inwards) so he didn't like taking his top off for PE. He also wrote that he picked on other people.
Why did they fucking do it
What really boggles my mind is why they killed completely irrelevant kids
>inb4 HURR THEY WERE EDGELORDS
Sure they were,i'm an edgelord as well but i don't go out shooting people
I think there must be a serious reason why they decided to kill other people and themselves all of a sudden
Any theories?
just in case anyone here's missed it, there's a 2003 found footage movie based off the tapes called Zero Day. it's actually pretty creepy and does a decent job at speculating what the tapes consist of.
>>17360635
psyop
>>17383110
Thanks anon, looks interesting.
How does it compare to "Elephant" if you've seen that?
https://news.google.com/newspapers?id=CF1IAAAAIBAJ&sjid=qwMEAAAAIBAJ&pg=6807,5022097&hl=en
This has a good couple of quotes from the tapes
DK: It’s humanity. Look at what you made. You’re fucking shit, you humans, and you need to die.
EH: Even us. We need to die, too. Of course, we’ll fucking die killing you fucking shit.
DK: When you find the body of one. He’s a sophomore….Look for his jaw. It won’t be on his body.
DK: I just know I want to kill the fuckers who fucked with me
DK: If you’re going to go fuckin’ psycho and kill a bunch of people like us….do it right
EH: (On his parents) It’s sucks to do this to them. They’re going to go through hell once we’re finished. They’re never going to see the end of it.
DK: You can’t understand what we feel; you can’t understand no matter how much you think you can.
EH: (On bonding with his family) I didn’t want to do any more bonding with them. It will be a lot easier on them if I haven’t been around as much.
DK: I’m sorry I have so much rage.
EH: I really am sorry about all of this. But war’s war.
>They say they hope the afterlife—if there is one—is like spending eternity in Doom, the video game they love most.
>Harris says it would be neat if the afterlife included getting to look at the world’s mysteries, like the deepest part of the Pacific Ocean.
Eric believed that he wasn't going to amount to shit, and that this was a way that he could get in the history books and be remembered.
Dylan was depressed easily manipulated.
Next.
>>17383203
>Believing Cullenbine
I was in Columbine the day of the shooting. It honestly wasn't that bad
>>17383054
of course, i will give the disclaimer that i don't condone his actions but i really have grown to feel sorry for eric as a human being. he was this kind of weird and quirky computer guy who refused to be like everyone else just to fit in. and he became fixated on violence and revenge because he couldn't get past the constant perceived rejection from his peers. i would guess that this rage was much more tolerable than his sadness and loneliness.
>Eric's birthday was April 9th and only 2 came to celebrate in 1999, Dylan and Robyn
this just makes it even sadder to me. it reminds me of the excerpt from his last journal entry on 4/3 where he wrote about how he couldn't get laid and didn't really know why, mixed in with talk of going "NBK" and ending with the childish rant about always being left out
>I hate you people for leaving me out of so many fun things. And no don't fucking say, "well thats your fault" because it isnt, you people had my phone #, and I asked and all, but no. no no no dont let the weird looking Eric KID come along, ohh fucking nooo.
it's like, emotionally, he was still a small child.
and then you look at his mental health self-evaluation and you see that he claimed to be depressed "usually" and claimed to be confused "all of the time." i think people who are bothering to try to understand him get thrown off course by the disgustingly violent things he said/did and they think that he really had some sort of well thought out and clear reasoning behind his actions. i think he was hanging in space and looking for anything to grab onto that might make him feel better. it makes perfect sense to me that he clung to the only thing that made him feel powerful and in control, which was his guns, bombs, and self-righteous rage. on the inside, in brief moments of honesty, i think he felt anything but powerful.
can't change anything now but i think it's important to see that there was unbearable pain hidden underneath his actions.
>>17383278
proof or you're a gaylord
>>17382997
>On the day, Eric's goal was "who's next?" and saw the suicide as his final, only option. Dylan's goal was "I'm gonna die today!" and saw murder as his only way of finally being able to kill himself. I don't think they wanted to die alone. They wanted to kill and die together.
interesting thought. thanks for sharing.
>>17383325
I get you, it's difficult to read someone's thoughts and feelings and not think that they were just another human
I can't label people monsters because I know that humans can make horribly immoral decisions, yet still be a human being
Like in
>>17383195
Where Harris wished he could explore mysteries of the ocean in the afterlife
It's such a tragic topic because 15 people had their whole lives ahead of them, and they could all be living it today if it never happened
Do you think the two could have lived a normal life?
>>17382864
Here's the letter I have drafted. I have no idea if it's any good, I've never typed one up before. I'm pretty happy with it so far, I feel like it includes the most relevant facts which can help the FBI in their search. The blocked out portion is just my name and address, though I suppose if this goes through everyone will be able to see who requested the info.
>>17373122
Dylan was supposedly smart but this is pretty amateur writing for a smart high school senior. If he was considered a nerd in school I wonder what kind of mouthbreathers the rest of the students were.
>>17363595
There are also people who deal with it in a constructive way.
>>17382257
No, it's only used to say regards
>>17383214
Dave Cullen shouldn't be allowed to write anything anymore.
>>17365133
Dylan had a date to prom, friends, and probably didn't act too differently from a normal teenager. But the mother seemed completely in denial, "He was involved in the shooting? No one in the house even owns a gun!"
>>17372044
The movie is about Rachel Scott and the "do you believe in God" thing happened to Valeen schnurr
>>17380240
Amazing thread, good job OP
>>17383513
While I've never dealt with FOIA paperwork before, I gotta say that's a solid write-up. Solid work on an interesting thread, and I wish you the best on getting what you're looking for.
>>17382506
Holy shit I was completely right.
>>17383173
I've seen it. I had seen Elephant many years ago but hadn't seen Zero Day until last week or so, and I always loved Elephant. Zero Day was so good that it made Elephant look bad in comparison, it's seriously a 9/10 movie.
The only thing that detracts from it is the limited budget. There isn't any fire or explosions in the attack scene so it's a slight letdown.
This is from the comments in the Documenting Reality link that was posted somewhere above. Apparently this guy's mom worked at Columbine and survived the shooting, and he went back a few weeks later with her for whatever reason. Not sure how much of this is true, but it was an interesting (and very morbid) read. The guy writes like a moron and is a pretty insensitive twat, so apologies. First of a few posts, it's a long story.
"Enter Columbine HS at the north entrance -by the old auto shop building. Sign in -me, my mom and brother, her counselor, three firefighters, six admin officials, and two cops. (we had to sign our names so they knew we
were there).
Walk down the halls. Cop lets us know where everyone met the wrath of Eric and Dylan. There are bullet holes in the hall thresholds. Pretty fuckin cool I think. I touch them. 9mm slugs leave a nice sized hole.
We go into the library. This is really fuckin strange. All the interior windows have black butcher-block paper covering them. Can't see in or out.. Enter the room. Gotta sign a statement saying we won't go to the media etc... (This, I thought was pretty cool. Aimee Sporer* would cum in her panties to be in this room. I got to go in simply cuz I was a sprog of a survivor. )*Aimee Sporer is the extremely cute albeit married and motherly newscaster of our local channel four news.
Enter the room. First thing that grabs my attention is the carpet. It looks like its burned in spots. Closer examination realizes that its not burned. Its blood. Nine mm rifles and shotguns do a fucking good job of draining bodies. It was all underneath tables. Most of the kids died as they were hiding under tables. Granted, it had been 6+ weeks since the massacre, the blood was still very visable. (I guess bloood doesn't evaporate). Here's the wierd part: The blood was so thick that you could scrape it up with a putty knife. It was like dried up clay on the carpet (Sorry secret santa wishers, I didn't grab any samples).
>>17385059
One kid who died had his *brains* blown onto the carpet. This nearly caused me to lose my lunch. But as a good A.T'er, I held it in. Picture a spot about as large as a frisbee. Turn it greyish-brown. Add cracks due to drying. Fucking brains. But what really had me was the presence of a fucking *turd* on the floor. I pointed it out to the investigator and asked, "what is that???" He replied, "Feces" Apparently, one girl shit on the floor as Eric and Dylan went about their mayhem.
Good ole' Cassie (she said yes) Bernall was reading the fucking newspaper when she bought it. It was opened up to page 16 and had her blood on it. Actually, there was blood everywhere. It was on the books, floor, periodicles, etc...
Go to the east part of the library. Eric and Dylan wisely decided to end it here. OK, most of the investigators believe Eric shot Dylan. When the report comes out, this claim will likely be substatiated. Now I have shot many high powered rifles in my age. I never knew that ballistics can be so messy. Eric put a gun to his mouth and literally blew his brains all over the ceiling. I mean *all over* there is a spot where him and Dylan died. Above that spot is a streak of blood that coats the white, styrafoam ceiling panels where they died.
Spent an hour and 1/2 in the library with the cops. Saw shit I never hope to see again. When I went into work later that day, I was in a fuck of a bad mood."
>>17385069
That's all. Again, not sure how valid any of this is.
>>17383474
They were made to be extraordinary. Plans don't always work out.
there's a haunting enigma with Columbine that myself and most in this thread are drawn to, there are hints of it in other acts of mass violence as well (but not all)
it bubbles just under the surface when i think of the shirts they wore; "Natural Selection" and "Wrath" and the shockingly compelling and articulated points supposedly made by Lanza when he called into that radio station (youtube it)
I can't remember exactly, but as I was reading through the transcripts I noticed one particular point contradicted the general consensus completely. Something they said was 100% different from what the police might have said, or something along those lines. See if you fags can read into it.
>>17368759
Violent fantasies are just part of being a hormone-crazed teenager for some people. Eventually you grow up and forget about this kind of thing. It doesn't make people special.
>>17365627
I'm obviously exaggerating to make a point.
>>17384283
Refer to above, but that doesn't mean you didn't get depressed or angry, it means you used one of those emotions to do something. I started writing, friends of mine tried drugs and most of them just eventually snapped out of it.
I think that a lot you need to understand that it doesn't take much for people who are already unbalanced to snap and do this kind of thing. They're not special, it's just a reactionary decision. Nothing paranormal about it either, I bet a lot of /x/ people have had fantasies about this kind of thing.
Solid thread OP
>>17385331
I don't think they necessarily "snapped" (they were planning for about 14 months), but more likely got dragged down in violent fantasies and plans.
(Just wanted to clear up to other anons. I understand that you weren't trying to say it was a singular switch in them that made them kill.)
I think you have kind of simplified it, even if it was to make a point. Eric and Dylan wanted to kill out of anger, but they wanted to die out of their depression, as well. It was like a perfect storm where all the pieces fit together at the end. There isn't one response, but a big combination of those responses where the two eventually could only see the shooting as the way out. A big combination of factors and their responses made them have a desire to kill, a discussion with eachother about their desire to kill, their methods to kill, and why they finally acted out their plans to kill. There were so many points where it could have lost momentum and stopped, but never did. So I guess you're right that it was fueled by hatred, anger and desire for revenge, but it was also by loneliness, dissatisfaction, disillusionment and self-destructiveness.
>>17360635
solid fukin thread Op-
ive been lurking since you started it and ive been hooked-
coming back everyday to see what youve been able to find-
actually watched Bowling for Columbine this morning. and it occured to me-
If you dont get what you need from the FOIA request-why not try to contact Michael Moore?
he seems like the type of guy who might be able and willing to help in this endevour-
accums razor kinda thing ya know?
anyway good luck good job and we'll be patiently waiting
>>17381382
You were implying there was some spoopy conspiracy/cover up
>>17384751
here's your reply
>>17385059
>>17385069
sounds like this guy made up a bunch of shit for attention to be honest. all kinds of people pretended to (and still pretend to) be involved with the shooters, the vitcims, the school or whatever but attention's attention no matter how you get it i guess.
even if true, he still seems like a huge fucking tool.
>>17385590
Yeah, I heard it was fake. There was only one teacher in the library (I think, the one on the famous call where E and D yell "get up!") and she had a kid but that couldn't have been the age he's implying at the time.
>>17385331
>I think that a lot you need to understand that it doesn't take much for people who are already unbalanced to snap and do this kind of thing. They're not special, it's just a reactionary decision.
it really annoys me that you would say this after an entire thread of information you could have read if you were too lazy to look at source material yourself. there was over a year of planning for this. it was not a snap decision in any way. that is what makes it so upsetting. they planned and fantasized and raged and built bombs and acquired guns for months before they did this. it wasn't a crime of passion. it was premeditated mass murder.
and no, most people probably don't have fantasies of this kind of thing. violence doesn't make everyone feel like a big man. revenge doesn't appeal to everyone because it usually involves lowering yourself to the level of the people you hate. and of those who have the fantasies, very few actually act on them.
and to say they're not special is also wrong. i don't mean it in a positive way but this is a unique circumstance here. violence in schools DID exist before columbine no matter what some of these people like saying. the boys made a point of saying they weren't inspired by some of the recent shootings in the news (like the one by kip kinkel). eric wrote a school paper on preventing gun violence in schools not long beforehand. so my point is that this situation is special because they were so committed to destruction and murder for so long. luckily, most of their plans fell apart on the actual day because it could have been much worse.
also, there were warning signs ignored and there were prior police reports about death threats that were ignored. the sheriff's office had drafted a warrant to search eric's home about a year before the killings. but they never did anything about it. and they tried to cover these facts up long after the shootings. there was a long process involved here, nothing "snap" about it.
>>17385568
no, you may have inferred that based on your own assumptions but i assure you that i did not imply it.
>>17360635
The Basement Tapes have been destroyed.
There was a fairly active group on Tumblr who labelled themselves the 'true crime' fandom who were obsessed with various spree killers, most notably Eric and Dylan.
They were determined to get access to the Basement Tapes in order to better understand Eric and Dylan's motivations and thought processes. Eventually, one of them managed to contact the head of the department responsible for the evidence pertaining to Columbine, who confirmed that the tapes had been recently destroyed.
Unfortunately I cannot provide more detail or show you the post where she broke the news, as the fandom has since disintegrated. Posts and entire blogs have been wiped or deleted.
If someone were to prove this false, I should be very happy as I would love to get my hands on those tapes. Unfortunately as far as I am concerned, we are chasing a lead that no longer exists.
>>17383513
like the other guy, i have no idea what's supposed to be in this but you've laid out the facts pretty clearly. good job and thanks for taking the time and putting in some real effort here.
i know this hasn't been a topic so far but do you know anything about the "nixon" cassette tape found on harris' kitchen table? evidence #233
https://web.archive.org/web/20060911095036/http://www.westword.com/art/media/columbine3.pdf
i can't help but be curious about this though the reviewing officer seems to suggest that eric really only recorded a few sentences onto it before the original recording starts playing (you may have read eric's interview for school with a guy from singapore (i think) named nixon and i assume that he just reused the tape which is why there's supposedly a guy with an "oriental accent").
but once again, i find it odd that the officer who wrote the report can directly quote other things he said on the tape but will only say he "indicates reason why these things are happening."
considering that he recorded it (probably alone) 9 hours before the killings and left it on the kitchen counter for his parents/police to find makes me wonder if this wouldn't hold the best information about his true motivations and his state of mind in the hours leading up to the killings.
i haven't found any more information than this so far because i just noticed it mentioned in an article today, but i think this could be another piece of possible existing evidence that we should look into before you send out the FOIA request. what do you think?
>>17385691
I imagine it was to his parents. I always wonderes why he made it.
His parents could have easily found it. Maybe he wanted to be stopped? Maybe it was the final fuck you to make fun of how oblivious everyone was? Maybe it was his final goodbye to his family and they'd listen to it when they found out he'd died. Someone said above about the CLUE at the end of the basement tapes that if they were expecting a complete destruction of the school and E and D would be given the blame.
I'm not sure if the Harris' ever listened to the tape
Similarly, he uploaded some files to the school system the day before. The same questions from above apply.
>>17375334
> my interest with columbine and similar cases has nothing to do with admiring any of the perpetrators
Liar. If Eric or Dylan survived and had their day in court, they would sound exactly like the retard in the picture with his dumbass statement:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1phx8SYXI50
You know it's true. This one is still alive but I don't see you clamoring to chat with him to hear his deep, edgy thoughts. If Eric and Dylan did this 20 years later they'd probably dress like Heath Ledger's Joker character rather than trenchcoats because they'd think it would make them look more badass.
>>17385763
call me a liar all you want. i know my feelings and intentions.
i do feel sorry for them and i do feel sorry for anyone who throws their life away like this. i also feel terrible for the people that were murdered and injured but there isn't much to learn by focusing on the victims because they were pretty much random targets. i don't think empathy and understanding is a bad thing, even if it's empathy and understanding for a murderer. maybe you don't agree. i also don't believe in the death penalty. how much should i bet that you love to see bad guys fry? should i judge you for that?
>I don't see you clamoring to chat with him to hear his deep, edgy thoughts.
i also wouldn't have a chat with eric or dylan had they ended up in jail so what's your point? yes, i've seen this youtube video before. yes, he's an angry, damaged teenage idiot. yes, eric and dylan were angry, damaged teenage idiots. you're arguing with me about random shit because you don't really get it. which doesn't surprise me either because "understanding" is not your intent.
if you're the same guy that's been on a crusade this entire thread...i made a statement that there are things we can learn from this shooting by listening to what the shooters were thinking/saying before they killed people. you somehow interpreted that as "HURR DURR THESE GUYS ARE DEEP." it's not my fault you can't read and are that easily triggered by mention of columbine.
you add no value to the thread. we get it, you think columbine was BAD and that eric and dylan were SO RETARDED. SO DOES EVERYONE ELSE, GENIUS.
maybe it's that you're angry that people pay attention to the killers and in your own life no one gives a shit about what you have to say? do something productive instead of cruising 4chan threads looking for a fight and then maybe it won't bother you so much.
if you get your self-esteem by claiming moral superiority over the internet, go right ahead, but i don't feel the need to respond after this.
>>17385763
But there's more to that video you posted as well.
He's clearly nervous. He fidgets throughout, he won't look up. He mumbles his big statement, despite the fact that it was clearly thought out and rehearsed beforehand. He's trying very hard to sound like an edgy badass, but he's just a scared kid.
Wouldn't you like to hear his true thoughts instead of the persona he's trying so hard to project?
>>17383104
Because they hated the school. They both deeply wanted to commit suicide, but just doing that isn't fun, so they took out the school as a last act of revenge. Kind of like a "well we've killed people, there's no going back now so we have to kill ourselves!" thing. I think that's it.
>>17385809
OP is nothing more than a Columbine fanboy. Shouldnt this be in/pol/? There nothing /x/ related to this basement tape conspiracy bs. The tapes are destroyed, deal with it.
>>17386143
this here anon wants to be heard without having anything to say. yada yada blabla. u ain't no janitor, bitch. deal with it.
>>17385638
yes you did
>why would the police withhold the tapes on the grounds that it would inspire copycats but release a complete transcript that could have the same effect?
this implies you suspect they are covering something up (which means you conspiracy)
>>17386203
no. i was asking you why you thought the transcripts were complete when they refused to release the tapes on the grounds of inspiring copycats. i was making a logical guess that they wouldn't release full transcripts of the tapes if they thought that some of the tape contents could inspire copycats.
>reading comprehension
you and your troll-friends need to stop already.
For the OP :
I know a lot about Columbine. If you're really interested I can give you some informations. But many parts need to remain secrets, so I'll maybe not help you that much,
Btw tapes aren't destroyed.
>>17386214
Anybody who proves you wrong or disagrees with your deluded theories is not a troll. Learn to debate like an adult.
>>17383214
Never read anything he wrote, it's just plain obvious.
>>17374918
You're a fucking retard. Gaining knowledge in the psyche of people like this helps seeing red flags in other people sooner so that shit like this may be prevented. You can't just bush everything off as hue he just craaazy cause that way we never learn from shit like this. But keep on taking the easy road through life.
>>17386292
Who are you? Batman? If you get to watch the remaining tapes you will be able stop all school shootings from happening? They were already viewed by law enforcement and nothings really changed.
I went to a play at this christian church. The play was completely based off of columbine and they were using it as a fear tactic to get people to come to become christians. Looking back it was very fucked up of them.
>>17360635
Most of the tapes was destroyed. Get over it.
>>17360635
if anyone is still interested there's website with the full text from brooks brown's memoir if you want more insight into these crazy fucks
the text is a little fucked up but you can discern it relatively easily:
https://archive.org/stream/pdfy-pC_WzWbOzxls5ms1/No%20Easy%20Answers%20-%20Brooks%20Brown_djvu.txt
>>17386787
Thanks for the link, anon.
>>17361824
>>Not talking about how this was the starting point of disarmament
Literally the opposite of what's going on - gun sales shoot up (I promise that wasn't intentional) after a mass shooting.
>>17366198
Trying to unravel the jump from the impulse and desire of doing those things to actually doing them.
>>17366198
>s. They were two industrial goth dipshits who tried to live out their fantasy of being the hitmen in Pulp Fiction
they're just like me!
>>17386847
you've laid it out here much more concisely and accurately than i have with any of my posts on the subject. thank you for explaining it to him.
>>17384903
>>17385691
Thanks for the input, I need to do some editing to it still, but it should be ready to mail/email in a day or so.
As far as the audio recordings the second poster mentioned, those tapes do sound interesting, but you will need to dig up clear evidence that copies were made and given to the FBI or some other organization assisting in the investigation. The only reason I'm sending a FOIA request is because the basement tape footage was copied and these copies were given to the FBI during the investigation. I believe that the JCSO has destroyed all the evidence of this case that they had on hand, but addition evidence or copies of evidence may still be retained by the FBI. The government has more money and manpower to store evidence for a longer period of time, and some evidence is required to be held indefinitely by law.
The FOIA request will hopefully result in the full or partial release of the basement tape footage. At the very least I hope that it will confirm the footage exists. If the footage is confirmed not to exist in the FBI vaults or is confirmed to have been destroyed, that'll be a bit discouraging.
>>17385691
>>17384903
Weird, I thought I submitted a reply to these posts but I guess it didn't go through. Maybe it'll show up later so I'm sorry if this is a double post...
Anyway, I appreciate the feedback. Reading through it again today I see some sections I need to clean up but I'm hoping to send it off tomorrow or Wednesday.
As far as snail mail vs email, I'm torn. If I send it via snail mail, it'll take longer, but I can get a tracking # and can make sure all my attachments in the appendix are seen. If I send it via email, it's free and fast, though I'm worried that my attachments won't be viewable or might not be considered because they're not together with the word document. I'll probably do email though, unless anyone has an additional input on that.
As far as the audio tapes, those would be interesting to hear as well, though they seem less comprehensive than the footage. The only thing I'm worried about is finding a direct record that copies were given to the FBI. I do believe the JCSO destroyed all evidence associated with this case, and the only reason I'm submitting a FOIA request is because we have direct evidence a copy of the footage was passed along to the FBI. Without an actual paper trail, it would be impossible to know if the FBI has a copy of the audio tape at all, and it would take much more time to track down that less well-known bit of evidence.
>>17386944
Keep us updated on your progress with this anon
>>17385691
For what it's worth I would like to hear and see everything associated with the case, so if you haven't sent out that FOIA request yet, include the cassette please. I never even knew it existed.
>>17361811
Sounds like the entire thing may have been a ritual killing. If they were into witchcraft they may have just said eh fuck it lets go full black magic on em. If that is the case and they happen to mention certain coughentitiescough there would be a good reason the higher ups wouldn't want the tape leaking.
>>17363755
Spooky ritual killing/suicide
>>17366300
I agree with you here. What they didn't want getting out was their philosphy, that shit could have spread like wildfire. What's even more concerning is that they may have actually had some fair points to be made, making them seem even more human/easy to follow. They probably didn't want an army of moderately educated shitheads with too much free time on their hands out there blowing up schools.
>>17367202
So much this.
>>17369589
>MF
guys, stop it immediately or you will uncover the truth
SERIOUS QUESTION
Why should I be interested in missing tapes from shooters? Are you people implying there were people behind the scenes of this thing?
