>PSG
>FM
>PCM
>Wavetable
>MIDI
It's all here. What are your favourite cards and synthesised music, /vr/?
Can someone give me a brief overview of how these different technologies work and what they sound like?
I have only a vague understanding of this.
VCS is PSG?
SNES is wavetable?
PC engine is FM?
Apple IIgs is PCM?
PS1 is MIDI?
>>3352225
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sound_chip
This page has a pretty good list of each type of SPU.
You've definitely got my attention, I think I'd really enjoy learning about this.
The GOATest of GOATs.
>>3352147
>MIDI
u wot
MIDI is the form of representation of music. MIDIs cann be played on any listed sound generation technologies above.
>>3352275
Fucking right.
Nearly all of the Panzer Dragoon tracks (starting with Zwei) are synthesized, not redbook audio. And it's glorious.
But deep inside we all know that the SID is the greatest sound chip ever.
>>3352312
No they can't. You need a sound module in order to playback MIDI's.
FM + some PCM, the goat combination.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vDScFFn_h7Q
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-IULrEy5gSU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aesXbuGv1dg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dekbKmBumnY
>>3352147
Got SC 50 for Doom and other games from that era (minus mt-32 titles) and an sc-8820 for sc 88, and 88pro compatibilities for touhou. Did I do good?
>>3352394
fm owns bitch
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7FtJdBcp88
Best sound chip coming through.
>>3352394
Thank you Autismo!
>>3352851
this a thousand times
picked up a Volca FM the other week and it's astounding the kind of sound you can get out of it
if you're an FM fan and you're not at least looking at that synth, you're out of your mind
>>3352147
I always enjoyed the sounds of the SNES, but they're just samples at the end of the day.
The Genesis had lush FM sound though, with its own unique character that in some ways shamed the SNES
Yuzo Koshiro is a god, and I am his disciple
>>3353245
Genesis games with good sound drivers and with competent composers sounded awesome.
>>3352275
you picked the wrong chip m8
>this is what a late 80's soundchip was capable
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fI2NDJ6TxBg&index=7&list=PL35CB7EB56058B881
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2eoXbUynbA&feature=youtu.be&list=PL5A7CA0E19F2A410A
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fK02KL7Lspo
>>3353274
>>3352332
Maybe a slight overstatement but yes it's a great chip. Still, I do remember being really disappointed that I couldn't reproduce certain things I could do with the chip in my 99 4/a. Not that that doesn't mean it's a better chip.
>>3352570
PC engine is more like a PSG where the programable sound is data representing a very short wave which the user can alter.
Pure wavetable would be that, a memory where samples of different instruments are stored and the chip modulates to get the final sound of a note.
FM on the other hand uses different oscillators (called operators) to create its voices. These operators can be arranged using different 'algorithms', and some 'algorithms' (the different possible arrangements of operators) put some operators in a way that they recieve wave modulation data from another operator and changes its own frequency accordingly.
It's a bit hard to imagine by this explanation but if you look up a video on "FM algorithms sound" you'll see what kind of stuff can FM do. FM is still a very common way of sound synthesis, especially in electronic music . The sound processing methods are way more advanced that the chip in the genesis, but it works on the same principles.
>>3352570
Forgot to add, MIDI is just a communication protocol used in music equipment. It usually carries note, velocity, instrument and channel data (it does carry more stuff). One of the big deals with MIDI is the ability to chain equipment and have it operate in sync.
>>3353274
while Neogeo sound chip is pretty great, it's also under exploited. Past early games, all that is used is PCM. Some games even just stream a track...
Glorious Falcom sound module tunes—
Brandish VT SC-55: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZlnBc6KPI8
Legend of Heroes IV SC-55: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yW36KDFQMIE
Ys Eternal GS: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YHIOIT2GIw
Ys Eternal SC-88: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OiqZwS-rQyA
Monarch Monarch: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j3QI8vQZsi8
Vantage Master: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rWLPPcHwhqM
Mona Mona unused: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fynbeSGm46c
Ys II Eternal SC-88Pro: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qrG3ZdpDpsU
>>3352350
Um, no you don't? Soundfonts and VSTs have existed since the turn of the millennium for this purpose. If OP had listed "pro sound modules" instead, that would have been more appropriate. There's tons of sound modules from back in the day designed for MIDI standards, not to forget proto-General MIDI modules like the MT-32. You can also feed MIDI info to FM-synth and PCM/wavetable sound cards for playback, of course.
>>3353746
I personally always thought that the TurboGrafx had really weak on-board sound (Redbook audio is of course an entirely different story,) It's really tinny and has no punch, if you understand what I'm saying.
>>3352394
And this dude is......?
>>3353245
You know, I never really understood this "just samples" mentality. If something sounds better, it sounds better. The process that it takes in order to deliver the sound is irrelevant.
Usually the one who shames is the superior one (i.e. the most realistic), not the one that relies on the excuse of being "unique" to hide the fact that it simply does not deliver what it should (i.e. the infamous "special snowflake").
>You know, I never really understood this "just samples" mentality. If something sounds better, it sounds better.
...but I never said it sounded better, just that I enjoyed the sounds of the SNES
the difference is an elemental one, actual synthesis vs. sampling; SNES plays banks of preloaded samples, and the Genesis synthesizes all sounds live
individual SNES carts were left at the mercy of their sound designers wheras Genesis devs worked with a common soundscape
Mine favorites:
SID
OPL3
PSG
Also i love sounds made by Gameboy.
>>3354232
It can sound pretty good though
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nY7nH1UeMM&index=22&list=PLzFTGYa_evXgnxNqitkP86ZIJWjQOwZbD
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_cbsEA_vO4&index=21&list=PLzFTGYa_evXgnxNqitkP86ZIJWjQOwZbD
>>3354338
some anon with autism, posts the same pic of a youtuber over and over, thus calling another anon autistic...
>>3354753
So it could do more base than I thought?
A shame that the American handlers were seven layers of retarded because there's so much good stuff for the TG16, right up there with the SNES and Geneses, and it could've sold gangbusters with better marketing and more localizations/translations.
Yamaha XG sounds pretty neat
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ET6qp33ik3A
>>3354858
Better with actual XG enhanced midi. XG is a lot more capable than standard midi.
>>3353254
Any console sounds good at the right hands, tbqh. Even the Gameboy or the Master System.
>>3354985
The Game Boy could do some nice sound, but the Master System was a bit harder with either hollow FM synth or bleepy PSG.
is it true that the early versions of the PS1 are being used as high-end audio machines??
>>3355579
gawker & kotaku said so it must be tru
>>3352394
are you still trying to force this meme about 6 months later
god, you're fucking sad
>>3355748
the fact that i lost count means that he has been doing it for too long
>>3355592
>PS1's sound card
Kids say the darndest things
>>3354985
>Even the Gameboy
What the fuck? Even? Even the Game Boy? The GB's soundchip pretty nice. Don't lump it together with the trash that is the SMS' PSG.
>>3356078
I think the issue was with the word 'card', because the PS1 doesn't have card slots it can't have a sound card.
The correct term is 'sound chip'.
>>3356078
>^fsound card
>Phrase not found
Wanna try again sport?
>>3356115
The PS doesn't have a sound card. I think everyone over the age of 12 here knows this. You're projecting pretty hard there calling someone who understands this retarded
>>3352350
Nigga you can play MIDIs on a fucking text editor if the processor is your brain and the output is your mouth
On topic: SID & SPC700 all the way
>>3356329
Nigga you can play ROMs on a fucking hex editor if you're sufficiently familiar with machine code, so as to mentally compile/assemble the code in your head.
>>3354232
>>3354753
Falcom's own PSG stuff is really well done and programmed.
https://youtu.be/EbzAm3Q8hm8
https://youtu.be/gqjqhLmxTbA
https://youtu.be/wVtdb1x7kr8
https://youtu.be/4podkG_OaPo
https://youtu.be/9CS4JyP6qHY
https://youtu.be/evkPPjgRUj8
https://youtu.be/zCSDmimwrP8
https://youtu.be/pZfUIkDkMW8
https://youtu.be/uXbiBjGuS_Q
https://youtu.be/1XpGbjFT0_s
https://youtu.be/jeFCvg9VZHw
https://youtu.be/v_LJIlP4tJM
https://youtu.be/p5z2-eF0-tk
https://youtu.be/Nk9Hkg2pnHU
https://youtu.be/wWFe_pvylDY
https://youtu.be/h3DnXRFDnv4
>>3357282
>i can emulate any game i want
>IN MY MIND!!!1!!11
Why exactly is the SN76489 so shitty? It's not the pulswaves, is it? I mean, there are GB and even C64 tracks that use 3 pulse waves and those sound good. But the SMS always sound so weak and soft.
>>3356049
GB's chip is pretty solid. Only thing I wish was really better on it was the weak-ass sounding noise channel.
SMS PSG would be brill if it had a clock divider so it'd go one octave lower, it's got some nifty features (well, one: you can link the noise channel to one of the square channels and freely select the noise pitch, and the noise channel's periodic mode is pretty much just a low-duty pulse wave, so you can use that to get a greater range of sound -- I don't think any commercial SMS game ever used this feature though).
>>3359148
It's the octave range. You have nearly zero ability to play deep bass tones on it, so everything ends up twittering in retardedly high pitched tones.
I think the Sonic games on the machine have brilliant soundtracks, but overall, it's not a great sounding chip.
>>3359402
>I think the Sonic games on the machine have brilliant soundtracks, but overall, it's not a great sounding chip.
Listen to Sonic Pocket Adventure, it uses the same chip, but it sounds loads more sophisticated than anything on the SMS/GG, probably because it had a powerful CPU to control it. The sound is alright and has nothing to ask from the GB, save for a DPCM channel.
>>3353274
THIS is the YM2610 masterpiece
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wmFPA7vcRmc
>>3359148
>he never heard the master system version of darius ii
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0hF_9PYaaw
>>3359148
enjoy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kO5RZiJwmaE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tpr772y8GbI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gCk6-6q8Bl8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aakFl3VhipA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=al3ycvoAzTg&index=2&list=PLCD3DFE9D55040CFD
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WXngNP8XSzM
>>3352350
>You need a sound module
>A sound module is an electronic musical instrument without a human-playable interface such as a keyboard.
ALL of those listed things above midi ARE sound modules you dip.
So long as they're programmed to accept midi controls and play something back. Preferably but not required using the GM standard set, and it'd work. You can take a the sega genesis chip for example and a program control unit and set each of the sounds to an FM approximation of a piano or guitar etc... then send midi controls from any single device that outputs midi to the unit and it would produce the FM sound expected by GM standard set.
You can do this virtually with VSTis that use wavetable/FM/PSG/PCM synthesis and plug a midi controller into it using midi to control the device programming and the playback.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hR32wxCkv-M
Likewise most general music programs have instrumentation that use one of those synthesis techniques and take midi input. Most DOS games would output midi and it could be used by your MT32 or OPL FM soundcard because of this fact.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BiO0ldUEsNs
>>3359148
Most of the time when any sound chip sounds terrible it's because it's programmed poorly (due to either incompetence or control limitations) or without regards to it's limitations.
A consideration is also the controlling data. If I twiddle a knob back and fourth for a manual vibrato storing that data directly is going to take up huge amounts of data. But if you change it up with an algorithm based off a sin, you just need a formula that you plug in and a few variables that change the formula and use it when appropriate and it'll only take a few bytes or so. Problem is you get this area where you need people competent not just in music but programming or at least teamwork with programmers to get what they need. Just hiring out someone to tap out keys because they know how to play a keyboard and who don't understand what the potential is of a device will sound bad.
A musician who sits at a basic keyboard and hears that he's got like 3 tones and some variables might tweak it but not realize wait, this will sound really good if we bend the tones as well but there's no knob for that so you need to figure out how to get that data into the thing. These days it's relatively easy enough to do that through brute force control the way I said you just twist a knob and have live data recorded. But older game systems needed to have that on a ROM with little space - so you couldn't just brute force all the notes the way we can today. There was also less accessibility to convert things in general like we have today.
Conceptually this is why FM can technically do all sounds you can hear but it's absurdly difficult for most people to produce even a fraction of that. For example you could record live wave data and throw it through a curve fitting algorithm and have a patch switch analyzer/control. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curve_fitting
>>3359402
>You have nearly zero ability to play deep bass tones on it
I've heard there are tricks to achive lower notes. Just listen to this.
https://youtu.be/DNrFaHVxDCg?t=10s
Actually sounds better than the GB version.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3S92uRpqbxM
>>3363580
I heard the SID was designed by an actual musician, who made sure it's actually usable to make music. Do we know how other soundchips where designed? Any making ofs? I'd really like to know why the Game Boy got a wavetable.
>>3363951
>who made sure it's actually usable to make music
Virtually any sound generating program is guaranteed to be able to make music. Whether that music is good is the issue and depends on the range and abilities of the sound generator. It's why guitars exist. We know strings vibrate and make sounds, put six of them, have adjustable frequency congratulations you can make music. Does a guitar fit the full range of timbres that you'll want? Well not primarily but if you have a sound generator on a console that only played guitar sounds it could still work. But would you really want to live in a world where you video game music sounds like this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARXxAF6tcM4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3n4nOiURgzg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQADZeB-z8M
If I were to design a chip, I'd give it 6 channels like the C64's and 3 high quality PCM.
First home computer to offer decent music
C64
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_9rDlos0g4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8l7eeLKVuM&t=153
The YM-2149F/AY-3-8910 sucks. It pales in comparison of the SID, Paula or any FM chip. Its cheap 3 voice sound clearly sounds lame.
No wonder why it was the PSG of choice for budget computers like the Atari ST or the Amstrad CPC.
But still, when abused enough in the hands of competents musicians and coders, it can sounds damn good.
>>3367513
arcade manufacturers often had dual or even triple PSG setups
this made for some pretty good music
https://youtu.be/4ey0x85Fc7M?t=136
>>3363951
>SID was designed by an actual musician
Robert Yannes modeled it after the Sequential Pro One, which he had on his bench.
Recent c64 developments have found ways to do 2 channel SID + 8-bit wavetable, which can be split into four channels. So 6 channel, all filterable.
>>3363951
almost all FM chips were surely designed with music in mind since the first one was in the widely used DX7
