Previous thread: >>3309078
This thread is for the spirited discussion of CRT displays - Televisions, monitors and projectors used for the playing of retro games!
>Try to keep it /vr/-related: Nothing past 5th gen(+Dreamcast). Slight OT might be okay if related to CRTs (E.G. 16:9 compatible models, flatscreens, etc.) Systems with backwards compatibility are also pretty safe territory, assuming you're focusing on the older games. PC CRTs are also a-ok.
>Produce OC! Get out your real cameras and take beautiful pictures of your CRTs displaying recognizable characters with the kind of beautiful accuracy that brings tears to the eyes of young and old alike! If you take 100 photos, at least one of them will turn out alright! (maybe)
>Try to be as detailed as possible when asking info on a specific model. As always, google is your friend, and we are your friends with benefits. Older archived threads aren't a bad place to look either.
>Share appreciation for others choice of technology and personal philosophy of gaming. As always show courtesy in your discussion and moderate yourselves first.
Discussion of video processing and scaling devices is okay, but try to keep the focus on CRTs and CRT accessories
CRT Pastebin (WIP): http://pastebin.com/1Ri5TS3x
An Anon's Guide to CRT Hunting: http://pastebin.com/H9H9L2LQ
S-Video Pasta: http://pastebin.com/rH2h6C7W
BKM-10R Protocol Information: http://pastebin.com/aTUWf33J
Thread Survey: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1PhdXJYwA8xModrTV1Yt-i1tvNgwiagpeBx0m_xNIVtc/viewform?edit_requested=true&fbzx=9009823977812318933
Toot toot...anti-PVM train rolling through. Friendly reminder that retro games were meant to be played on retro consumer grade sets and you can find them for $0-$50 easily...toot toot
>go to garage sale
>a fucking pioneer laseractive
boys
how do i get RGB out of this thing?
>>3328687
you don't
>>3328687
with what card(s)
>>3328845
was talking about the PAC module(s), yeah.
only info I found is here
http://www.gamesx.com/misctech/laseractivergb.htm
alternatively, follow rgb traces comming from the FC1004 to see where they end.
Threadly reminder not to fall for the SCART meme.
So larger CRTs have worse geometry, convergence, and focus?
What is the sweet spot where you get the best balance of screen size and picture quality for CRTs?
Is this sweet spot different for flat, semiflat(trinitron), and curved CRTs?
>>3328958
large tubes can have perfect geo.
it's flat and/or short tubes that exhibit more problems.
>>3328958
Take what you can get the rules arent set in stone, some flatscreens have ok geometry (besides you can just bump up the overscan provided the geometry isnt extremely noticeable.) etc
dont listen to that anon talking about 'artifacts' on 20" screens, hes a fucking retard.
>>3328981
>after getting btfo last thread you really should shut up.
If you hook up a PC to a CRT TV and use a scanline filter, can you get a sharp-looking image from 480i? Alternatively, what's the best way to hook up a PC to a CRT and play emulators in 240p?
>>3328994
Im not doing this every single thread
dont have it in me to argue with you and 20cuck every thread to just have ad hominems thrown back because you cant think of anything else logical to say.
>>3329030
I was more curious about what state of mind led you to believe you "btfo'd" anyone.
>>3329035
When i refute every one of you and 20cuck's arguments and you cant say anything but ad hominems back and never reply again
:^)
daily reminder you two and the '20" has artifacts' guy are the biggest retards i've seen, but you should use a trip because ill actually filter you whereas 20cuck has a decent amount of knowledge just all the wrong opinions.
>>3329053
>When i refute every one of you and 20cuck's arguments
The delusion is strong on this one.
>>3329053
I'd say your position is more one of rebuttal than refutation but nonetheless I stand by you.
SCART needs a few more informed defenders around here.
Off to a great start already, I see.
![logh95a[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/g62N3ze.png "logh95a[1].png")
>>3329060
>he thinks hes right after being proven wrong
>he has these weaboo pictures saved on his pc
This is too good
>>3329067
>Thinks that him being unskilled is somehow an argument
>complaints about mongolian cave drawings in a mongolian website
At some point, one of you needs to pretend to be the adult and let it fucking drop.
>>3329070
>thinks i want to solder mangled cables or use RGB at all
>>3329078
>>thinks i want to solder mangled cables or use RGB at all
>>3328981
>Laserdiscs are composite only so the games may be composite only as well.
Yeah I plan to leave the laseractive unmodded for that reason. However, I want RGB for the Sega and Sega CD functionality. I'll look into modding in RGB when I recap the Sega module.
>>3328580
>50 Hz
>>3329147
>implying I didn't 60hz mod the thing
you can even see the switches
>>3329147
Do PC CRT monitors have the same problems with geometry, convergence and focus that CRT Televisions do?
Does it make a difference if the PC CRT is flat or curved?
What are the best and worst brands in PC CRTs?
What is the largest commonly available (findable on craigslist) screen size of PC CRT?
What do you think is the smallest tolerable size of PC CRT to use for retrogaming?
What do you think is the smallest tolerable size of CRT Television to use for retrogaming?
What are the best and worst brands of CRT Television?
>>3329225
>Do PC CRT monitors have the same problems with geometry, convergence and focus that CRT Televisions do?
Usually less, because of available geo adjustments and deeper tube relative to screen size
>Does it make a difference if the PC CRT is flat or curved?
not really IMO
That captcha when you select in succession NEVER FUCKING WORKS
>What are the best and worst brands in PC CRTs?
Sony, Mitsubishi, NEC...
>What is the largest commonly available (findable on craigslist) screen size of PC CRT?
no idea
>What do you think is the smallest tolerable size of PC CRT to use for retrogaming?
17", 15" maybe
>What do you think is the smallest tolerable size of CRT Television to use for retrogaming?
14" I guess
>What are the best and worst brands of CRT Television?
I dunno about worst, but Sony have the unique aperture grille.
>>3328104
>how many times have you done that?
Personally? Once. One for a friend who runs a game store. I want to do it to my Toshiba 27" set, but RGB modding this N64 will take priority over that. The service manual makes it very clearly possible.
Service manuals and jungle IC datasheets indicate that a LOT of consumer US sets have normal line-level RGB inputs in the form of an OSD.
IIRC this is a cellphone pic. Just looking at the thumbnail.
>>3328845
Take pics of the inside; it's possible the Sega module at least could get RGB.
>>3329030
I don't throw ad hominems unless you claim that your personal opinion is a universal truth. Then and only then will I call you fucking retarded.
>>3329225
PC CRTs are typically made to a higher standard than a consumer TV. Convergence is a MUCH smaller issue. I've yet to own a PC CRT with noticeable convergence defects, although they do exist at the bottom of the barrel.
Broadcast monitors typically are made to similar standards as PC monitors but operate at lower frequencies. They often even use PC monitor tubes.
>>3329247
You missed matsushita (panasonic, JVC).
Also in the mid 2000s there were non-sony aperture grilles for a brief time.
Okay, I'll stop quintuple-posting for a while and check back later.
On an earlier CRT thread I heard rumours about this CRT collecting blogger from Europe who dislikes Sony CRTs and aperture grilles and says they're overrated.
How could he hold such an opinion? Is there any reason to believe that?
>>3329372
Sony was pretty much the only company offering AG displays for most of the life of crts. It could be argued that since Sony was only one brand (although popular), a majority of people worldwide didn't use Sony crts and the look of most games weren't 'intended' for AG or designed specifically to be played on them. This is especially true for the broadcast stuff that consumers would never have had access to our be able to afford.
Some visual effects in games simply look better on shadowmask (although this is subjective and the reverse could be said for AG).
sometimes even if i know i had my PC CRT finely tuned, i turn it on and it moved slightly to the right
why does this happen?
its a NEC FE990
I have it in the same room as my guitar amp, dunno if that could cause some magnetic field or something (my guitar for example picks up a bit of static noise if im in front of my CRT)
>>3329674
It might just need to warm up. Geometry on my PC CRT is odd for the first 20 minutes.
>>3328967
Don't say that flats have bad geometry :/ I love my trini 27fs120
>>3329880
(put on your peril-sensitive sunglasses if you can't handle tough truths.)Ignore facts and they'll go away.
Decent flatscreens exist, but the best flatscreen will still be lesser than the best rounded screen.
>>3329720
480i can look sharp and only marginally more flickery. Flicker depends a lot on the decay time of the phosphors in use. Lightbulbs work on a 60hz (50 in europe) cycle too, but you don't notice those flickering.
Sharpness depends a lot on how much the odd and even fields overlap, too.
>>3329648
Non-sony broadcast monitors exist, remember?
Ikegami, Conrac, Asaca/Shibasoku, Matsushita (JVC and Panasonic), for instance. I only know of two non-sony aperture grille broadcast monitors, and those are from Matsushita.
>>3329372
>On an earlier CRT thread I heard rumours about this CRT collecting blogger from Europe who dislikes Sony CRTs and aperture grilles and says they're overrated.
>How could he hold such an opinion? Is there any reason to believe that?
Let me flip this on it's head.
>The youtubers all like Sony PVMs, and this guy on Shmups (Fudoh) wrote a manifesto about how they were the best. He says all other technologies pale in comparison to the one true monitor (tm), the BVM-20F1U.
>How could he hold such an opinion? Is there any reason to believe that?
Nothing you hear should be taken for truth without thinking critically.
A flaw on the surface with aperture grilles is the dampening wire (or wires) that prevent vibrations of the wires and also cause thin horizontal dark lines on the screen.
I personally prefer the softer image that a 'tri-dot' shadow mask makes, and prefer my Panasonic BT-H1390YN to both my 20" PVMs (1944Q and 20L5). Everything is subjective; there is no reason to think an aperture grille is universally better OR worse. Try both and draw your own conclusions.
Oh dear, quintuple post again.
Compare to >>3330048 - this is the 20L5.
>people who buy SCART cables and add unnecessary complexity and adaptors when they already have the RGB capable console and a non-SCART RGB monitor
>needing a sync stripper from a console that outputs csync and defending buying SCART because you can fit a sync stripper in the massive plug
>>3330009
I guess I'll not be getting a 36 inch. Not until I find a Nec XP plus.
>>3330113
I'm not getting a 36" because 27" is already huge as it is.
To each his own, I guess.
>>3330013
>Sharpness depends a lot on how much the odd and even fields overlap, too.
is this a problem or high or low tvl TVs?
>>3330113
If ebay is any judge of current CRT pricing on the XM29 (and presumably XP), I'd imagine that an XP37 would sell for over $1k.
>>3330013
>Flicker depends a lot on the decay time of the phosphors in use.
In this case, he's right though. If the person is using a scanline filter and outputting at 480i, it's just going to look like flickery dog-shit.
>>3330048
I'd also like to point out that this oft repeated, stupid quote is one that should be attributed to the author of that tested article and not to Fudoh himself.
>>3330141
TVL is horizontal, not vertical, and that(vertical) is the spacing that comes into play in this situation.
>>3330141
Higher TVL will have less overlap typically.
That's one thing my 20L5 does well - I used it as a TV for months. At or above ~450TVL it's pretty sharp in my experience; 600TVL is probably a point of diminishing returns from my experience, and you start getting black areas between 480i fields.
>>3330153
True, but TVL has a large role in dot pitch and beam size, which impacts horizontal and vertical spacing.
>>3330165
"After a crash course in the intricacies of CRT tech and the image processors used to upscale old consoles for modern displays (which Fudoh believes are an even better than the Sony BVM-20F1U) you too may be itching to drop a few hundred bucks on some of the best video gear ever made."
>>3330153
Oh, he had a scanline filter AND 480i? sorry, didnt read again. Yeah, that'd be shit.
I believe Fudoh made the 20F1U claim that the Tested article took as gospel.
>>3330170
However, he did say the 20F1U was the best CRT, even if he preferred a plasma and a scaler.
>>3330107
Some monitors won't accept some consoles csync.
Also, resistors and caps.
>>3330160
so seeing the black areas=flicker or what are you getting at.
>>3330191
>some monitors don't accept csync
If they accept composite video they accept csync. If you have a genesis put a buffer in the console.
>Also, resistors and caps.
Resistors are typically unecessary outside europe. Caps can be added internally on the SNES and are unnecessary on the genesis.
How much of an improvement is VGA over S-video for Dreamcast?
Is it night and day or do you have to stare hard to notice it?
>>3330201
technically if you aren't daisy chaining caps aren't necessary on the SNES either.
>>3330201
see
>>3310005
>>3330207
First off, SCART is not a requirement to use a sync stripper.
Second,
>However, once an LM1881 is on the way, it'll happily display anything...
He's not actually got a LM1881, he's expecting it to fix his problem.
He doesn't have to derive sync from composite video, though; he could buffer his sync signals and use a transistor-resistor configuration to get 1Vpp if he has one of those picky monitors (which are pretty rare).
>>3330193
no, black areas are like the spaces between 240p lines, onl6 at a certain point you can see space between even 480i fields on high-resolution tubes.
>>3330240
this.
Thank you for not calling the empty space 'scan lines'. I appreciate your accuracy.
>>3330234
dude, wtf are you talking about.
*I* tested all this
*I* *actually* *used* an LM1881
I fuken used my home-made splitter that has one of the outputs with clean sync.
one works, the other don't.
>>3330191
dont reply to bait
>>3330182
I'm not seeing this anywhere in the article, and in the "review" he did on the first page of the shmups thread, he calls it he best he's seen, not "the best, bar none".
>>3330207
Beat me to it.
>>3330204
VGA is a higher and progressive resolution than the interlaced one you'll be getting with S-Video. Some game will look better at the lower resolution however, be that over RGB or S-Video, due to either being designed for it or otherwise.
Most people opt for VGA for the DC though.
>>3330234
The post they linked to was, presumably, to a post they had made themselves and applied to their own situation. An LM1881 is the most simple solution to the issue in his case. They're just pointing out a case when accepting and displaying composite video DOESN'T mean it'll take CVid for sync.
And there's no need to bring SCART up yet again.
>>3330254
sounded like you'd just ordered an LM1881 and it was in the mail.
That transistor-resistor circuit should absolutely work.
>>3330258
>What is the benefit of that over an LM1881?
nothing, the fucker doesn't even know what this circuit is for.
>>3330270
So, is that just a contrarian post?
>>3330261
"best he's seen" = "I like unnaturally tiny lines of video with vast tracts of emptiness between" and "the best", since he can't claim something's better if he's never used it. I'm not aware of any TV monitors higher than 1000TVL.
He likes scalers and LCDs for retro games; therefore I don't respect his views on the matter as my tastes vary wildly from his.
the LM1881 would be a simple choice if he were talking about using composite video as sync, but it reads like he's referring to running pure csync into the monitor, or SCART style composite video input with the csync line swapped in. Theoretically, csync is just a pure black System M television signal.
You all should know my opinion on SCART, so I'll stay out of that.
>3330291
>Theoretically
theorically every crt monitor is free (ツ)
>>3330258
>what would you rather they be called?
The space between scan lines.
>What is the benefit of that over an LM1881?
Not him, but for me it'd be that I already have the parts at home and don't have to wait for mail.also I'm mad at TI for selling graphing calculators based on TRS-80 technology for $120 in 2016
>>3330304
No, every CRT is not theoretically free.
Where the theory behind NTSC video is well understood and a composite of vertical and horizontal sync pulses with no additional changes in signal amplitude should result in a proper receiver displaying a pure black 525 line signal.
>>3330291
>I don't respect his views on the matter as my tastes vary wildly from his.
The fuck is wrong with you?
>>3330314
he's free of respect (ツ)
>>3330291
>He says all other technologies pale in comparison to the one true monitor (tm), the BVM-20F1U.
Those are your words, not mine; I'm simply calling you on your shit in repeating and attributing a quote to someone who never said it just because they have a different opinion to your own and that you don't care for them personally.
The post you were replying to seemed like an honest question: "Is there any reason to believe Trinitrons are over rated" and another anon managed to answer it perfectly fine without feeling to the need delve into such hyperbole.
>>3330314
I also don't respect donald trump because his opinions are different from my own.
I mean no real offense to fudoh, but I don't consider his opinions on displays to be anything for me to take seriously, based on my experiences with what he'd call some of the best CRTs ever made. For 480i? maybe. Not for 240p.
>>3330323
I used to believe Fudoh's shit, then I got the 20L5 and discovered that for me it wasn't really "all that".
My point was "draw your own conclusions".
I'll quote Fudoh directly, you can split hairs with the 'that I've ever seen' clause later.
>The BVM-20F1E is the very best CRT I've ever seen.
In my experience, while youncan claim to respect someone else's view while violently disagreeing with it, it really just comes down to NOT respecting their opinion but not wanting to fight over it, so yoy say "I respect your opinion but disagree." I speak directly most of the time for better or worse,
>>3330347
That's a more 'correct' way of putting it. I don't put stock in his opinions, but I don't actually disrespect him as a person. Just his opinions on CRTs.
>>3330356
Yes, it's called high functioning autism.
>you like aperture grilles?
>youre a fucking idiot and nothing you say has any worth or legitimacy
>fuck off with your 'knowledge'
only a sith deals in absolutes
>>3330375
I do not personally like aperture grilles, and my philosophy on CRTs is definitely aimed towards the kinds that people actually might have had. I have no huge beef with aperture grilles as a whole, I just don't like the super-high-TVL ones very much and like the aesthetic of some of the shadowmask sets. I don't put stock in fudoh's opinions, a.k.a. "not respecting them", after coming to that conclusion while trying to talk myself into liking the 20L5 more for months.
As one can have friends with weird religious practices and like them while not respecting their religious beliefs (in that they disagree with them), so I can differ in opinion on other topics. It was a mistake to use the word "respect" to begin with, now it's being used as cannon fodder.
>3330387
>I do not personally like aperture grilles, and my philosophy on CRTs is definitely aimed towards the kinds that people actually might have had.
Give your L5 then.
Or is your """philosophy""" as solid as marshmallow (ツ)
>>3330387
Obviously theres no room for others opinions and your ego.
No one is misunderstanding your use of the word respect.
>>3330387
You arent just saying you dont like 1000TVL aperture grilles and scalers.
Youre saying that because someone else does that you cant ever think that anything else they think has even an ounce of worth or legitimacy.
Ie you only think in absolutes and it makes everyone sick.
>Free20L5 guy's personal blog
>>3330395
I use my 20L5 for non-240p content.
Also you're being a dick so I see no reason to help you right now. I should have said I *prefer* shadow masks. But I don't use the Sony monitors for my old games anymore.
>>3330414
I don't like scalers.
I don't like high-TVL aperture grilles.
Fudoh likes:
*scalers
*high-TVL aperture grilles.
No shit I don't agree with him.
>3330554
I didn't ask for your help dood, nor I want your L5.
just put your acts and your words together.
or be the marshmallow you've always been (ツ)
>>3330397
of course they aren't misunderstanding it, they are understanding it properly.
I used the wrong word and they interpreted the wrong word in the way that would be expected. Especially by someone with a bias against me from the get-go.
>3330563
Remember that guy with "no marked decrease in quality","could barely tell any differences" when he used his switch ?
you clearly understood him too, yet you went by the "shitty switch" approach.
so, yeah. Understanding. Works both ways (ツ)
I need help /CRT/
My JVC D-TV1710CG just died on me.
I left it in my car because I travel for events a lot and when I tried to power it on, it turns itself off with a "Self-Check" code. The first two input lights are lit up.
I tried turning on after removing the input card and no luck
JVC still services it but it's gonna cost me a fuckton.
Maybe you guys know something or can point me in the right direction.
I just want my glorious 480p GameCube games Back
>>3330574
>Download service manual
>Check code
>Follow manual's guide for diagnosing problem
>Follow manual's guide for fixing problem
>>3330574
at best, temp changes made a connector(s) loose
at worst it cracked glass...
Battlestation thread is the new crt thread
pack up
>>3330586
tell us where to find it anon.
>>3330605
yup these crt threads are officially shit because of the same 2-3 assidiots up there
>>3330573
Is this the translucent SCART switch?
It might be okay. But it still is using SCART which leaves a lot to be desired.
>still doing quotes with a single bracket because you think that's effectual
Looks like there's a CRT backstage on the Late Show, if anyone happens to know anyone at CBS. (shrug)
Yes, this is a picture from a 52" panasonic LCD. Apologies.
>>3330414
I've only seen his opinions on displays, amd I disagree with what he considers makes a display "good" for retrogaming. I don't ignore his views, but of his views that I've seen I've disagreed with him every time, so I don't have a reason to put stock in his beliefs as of now. I don't filter him out of threads or ignore him, but my opinions differ.
>Youre saying that because someone else does that you cant ever think that anything else they think has even an ounce of worth or legitimacy.
I am saying that my personal conclusions disagree with his conclusions. I do not doubt that he knows what he's talking about or that he has legitimately different opinions, but I personally disagree with him and thus I have personally chosen a different path to retro vidya enlightenment than he has.
I am not saying everyone should simply _ignore_ Fudoh's opinions and information, but you should remember when reading it that it's an opinion and take it with a grain of salt.
I repeat: draw your own conclusions. Don't take my word for it, but don't take someone else's either.
Forgive me for being retarded but what are these inputs? S-Video on the right and ??
>>3331295
That's coax RF on the left and 5-pin DIN on the right. You have to consult the manual of that device as to what exactly is the pinout of the DIN plug.
>>3330556
Fudoh also likes shoving 10 megabyte of text on a single page in a layout that makes it impossible to read his site.
>>3331314
Thanks
>tfw no manual
Hi. I've recently purchased my CRT, haven't used it for long, but today, it has started to have a problem: It starts doing a clicking sound in a semi-regular basis and whenever I'm playing with it, the image "jumps" a little and goes black and white during that jump.
What could the problem be?
>>3331314
Are VHF plugs like that in europe?
We got the horrible tethering F-connector (75 ohm) kind (also the antenna screw terminal 300 ohm twin-lead kind. Wish we'd have used BNC's.
>>3331567
Playing with it how?
And the click might mean you need to lower the 'screen' (grid 2) potentiometer on the flyback transformer - something could be arcing in the tube itself.
There are other causes, but that's a generic guess.
>>3331572
Playing with a Gamecube, nothing technical.
>>3331576
oh, I thought you meant playing with controls on the TV.
Can we have pics? what kind of TV is it?
The loss-of-color probably indicates a dried up capacitor near an oscillator in the set. But I think a pic would be useful.
>>3331617
More info:
Your TV is probably losing track of the color burst from a composite signal. This activates the "color killer" temporarily, forcing the TV into monochrome mode. A second later I suspect the TV latches to the subcarrier again, causing colors to be temporarily restored.
>>3331446
Belgian
Could someone tell me what's wrong with my set and how I fix it please?
>>3331965
are the artifacts and shit it rolling or is it stuck like that constantly?
Does it do that with s-vid or composite instead and other consoles?
>>3329158
monster
>>3331992
I have 5 MDs
No one cares about euro MDs because 50hz
No one cares about RGB MDs because no composite
Only thing I would change is using a single DPDT on-on-on instead of 2 SPDT
>>3332003
pal games can't be played in 60hz
can they?
>>3332007
old ones can
newer, region protected ones can be hot switched. Some rare ones that are 50hz optimized can exhibit glitches.
>>3331990
I only have the one console. The artifacts are mostly stuck, shift position once in a while and come back.
I only have the one game and console so I can't do further testing, but I get the same shit with composite.
>>3332003
also adding that in recent years
literaly no one cares about MDs or SMSs because not Nintendo.
>>3332003
Contradiction: I care about the PAL model 1 because it looks sexy and it is INCREDIBLY EASY to mod for 60hz.
It's not like a lot of other consoles where it's actually difficult or impossible to do. You just cut some traces between 8 clearly marked solder points.
>>3332036
Other than people who grew up on sega hardware, people like me still enjoy it because of games like Phantasy Star, which are classics of the RPG genre. Just because you're a nintendo zealot doesn't mean 'no one' cares. Just say that you don't personally care. Speak for yourself.
Coexistance is possible.
>>3332003
>No one cares about RGB MDs because no composite
Forgot that one.
People here obviously care about RGB, because Mega Drive composite is absolute shit.
Modding for s-video also gives a substantial improvement.
>>3332023
I'm expecting you don't have composite sync, but a short video clip would be necessary for me to be sure. It looks like you're not syncing, though.
Oh hey, a NES speedrunner using a non-PVM with composite video on the nightly show.
I don't think this is the same CRT I mentioned earlier, it looks different.
>>3332236
Thanks for the help. I'll post it later tonight.
>>3332236
https://1drv.ms/v/s!AmHMg-rdt6mTlY5F9T9JRuEN1Lmdyg
The parts where it goes really crazy are where I turn off the external sync.
>>3328580
I recently picked up a Sony Trinitron from a garage sale for 5 whole smackaroos, and have been playing SNES games on my homebrewed Wii with it. I want to buy component cables so I can output 480p, but after looking up my TV's model number (kvfs24100) I realize it only does 480i. Will I still get a significant difference in quality with component cables? Also, is there a way to prevent a small part of the left side of my screen from being cut off?
>>3332367
You don't have composite sync, or if it's plugged in you need to hit 'external sync' on the control panel.
>>3332396
I bought a csync cable. And as the video shows the picture goes away completely when I turn off external sync. Since the colors are there I don't think the cable is wired wrong. And my snes serial number says I shouldn't have the one chip model.
I'm at a loss.
>>3332383
Yes, component even at 480i is SIGNIFICANTLY cleaner than composite at 480i.
>>3332407
Your 'sync cable' is faulty, most likely. I'm assuming you fell for the SCART meme?
Try connecting composite video to the csync connector.
You shouldn't need to use a special cable with a sync stripper if you're doing it right. My guess is that if this is a cable with a LM1881 hidden inside the SCART connector, either a wire's loose or the IC is fried.
>>3332418
Thank you for your help. I realized I must have the wrong scart to bnc cable.
>>3332560
Using SCART is wrong by itself.
>>3332564
>more contrarian shitposting
use. a. trip. use. a. trip.
>>3332564
fuck off
>>3330305
>The space between scan lines.
That's stupid. There should be a term for it. No one wants to repeat that entire phrase just refer to non-scanlines.
>>3332591
Shh he feels superior when he calls them that.
>>3332418
p.s. as a solution, if you are using SCART, crack open the SNES's AV connector, desolder the composite video line, and solder it to the csync pin (pinouts are all over the web). Then, in the cable with the LM1881 (the SVART -> BNC one, if I remember right, but I only have used a SCART cable for a very brief period while RGB modding someone's SNES mini), desolder the composite video (aka csync) wire from the LM1881 and connect it straight to the csync output, bypassing the chip.
>>3332593
I don't feel superior, I feel accurate.
You're calling scan lines everything on the screen that ISN'T a scan line.
>>3332591
>wanting a term for the absence of a thing.
Okay. Call it black space dark space or some bullshit like that.
>>3332560
To clarify for you, the only SCART cable I ever used had a sync stripper in it and it worked fine. You might have bought the right thing (as far as SCART goes), but just gotten a defective product.
>3332224
>I have 5 MDs
>I'm a Nintendo zealot
(ツ)
>3332229
>not knowing what an RGB MD is
(ツ)
>>3332675
>using katakana 'n' because it sort of looks like a face smirking
>an RGB MD isn't a mega drive with RGB video
Tell me more, senpai. Because that's the only google result I get.
シ ツ ン
>>3332657
>desolder the composite video line, and solder it to the csync pin (pinouts are all over the web). Then, in the cable with the LM1881 (the SVART -> BNC one
No
>>3332685
p.s. sorry for not living in france and not being an expert about everything under the sun.
> ツ
>3332685
why should I tell you, I'm a ä»»å¤©å ‚ zealot (ツ)
And it's tsu (ッ)
>>3332690
okay, remind me how the bullshit cables are wired then, is the stripper in the console cable or something?
That just drives up the price for each cable though, as opposed to one time if you have a monitor with BNC inputs. Yet another reason SCART is dumb to use outside europe.
>>3332703
whoops, you're right. it is tsu.
I was typing it on a japanese IME, I should know this. Thought i only saw the one line (ン).
>>3332703
>why should I tell you
because it won't hurt to actually contribute meaningfully to the thread instead of bitching for once in your life.
>3332712
>instead of bitching for once in your life
way to ask nicely.
also comming from bitcher in command, kinda ironic.
>>3332672
Looking at it now. I bought it from a different place than where I got the snes Av cable, and I must have rgb h then v, when i thought I was getting rgb h+v then mono.
Can't spell パンツ without ツ.
>>3332708
What are you on about now?
Ive explained to you before that no one wants to use a mangled home soldered mess of cable for their console.
No one wants to cut up their consoles to add component ports.
No one wants to de-solder things.
No one, but you and your anti-scart crony that is.
It's barely more cost efficient (if at all) to solder your own cable and having to buy multiple cables to cut up, de-solder, and re-solder.
Also think about this, you think everyone of these anons that bought their 100s of dollar overpriced overrated PVMs on ebay owns a soldering iron or knows how to use one? You're sorely mistaken.
>>3332685
>using katakana 'n' because it sort of looks like a face smirking
It's a "tsu" you double baka
>>3332739
>your anti-scart crony
There's plenty of us that see the SCART meme for the scam it is.
>>3332757
>20Lcunt and his brother
>plenty
![ee5[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/Ye75nbM.png "ee5[1].png")
>>3332757
I have a big ol' sanyo made in December 2003 (model number DS32920) and a Trinitron. Right now I'm using the Trinitron, but it only does 480i. I want to get the best quality out of my 6th gen consoles but need to know if the sanyo does 480p before lugging out of my basement. Pic related is TV in question's info sticker. I have tried looking this up, of course, but can't find anything.
>>3332846
>I have tried looking this up
Not very well. It's literally on the first page of google results, I was going to spoonfeed you but decided against it
>>3332846
Looks to be 480i
Don't throw it out anon
>>3332863
Where did ya find that information anon? The specifications page in the user manual doesn't tell me anything regarding that (unless it's written using terminology I don't understand)
>>3332874
no mention of HD anything, anything digital, If I'm not mistaken not many HD CRTs have s-video ports. The picture shows hooking a DVD player to the component ports, and im almost positive all DVDs then were 480i-576i then.
>>3332892
Nice detective work, anon. I didn't know that about HD CRTs and S-Video input. Also, don't worry about me throwing it away. I'll find someone who will actually play games on it before I let it go.
>>3332907
The manual I posted didn't include "480i" but thank you.
>>3332383
WII component cables look great, and the third party ones work just fine (~$5). Composite < S-video < Component.
There's a massive step up between composite and s-video (separation of luma and chroma), the difference between s-video and component isn't much for 480i. The main thing though is that S-video cables are very difficult to find good ones while basically any old component ones will do.
(component really comes into its own with the 480p and above, which s-vid can't do)
>>3332373
>>3332387
Someone please report him
the javascript for the report captcha doesn't work for me (plays funny with uMatrix)
>>3332383
component will be best even at 240p, just set the resolution to 256x224 for snes.
you gotta get in the service menu and play with hpos and hsize
>>3328958
Larger tube screens all seem to have a moire pattern that you can't really get rid of tho...
>>3332739
I was offering a solution for someone who fell for the SCART meme to keep using his existing cable. My suggestion would only change things inside the plugs, the cable would appear visually intact when done.
>>3333045
For comparison. Also I already had this pic on my phone.
>>3332728
If you snap some decent pics of it, we can probably find out. If there are 5 BNC's, then yeah, its meant for RGBHV, but it's pretty unusual to have a SCART on one end of a RGBHV cable.
>>3333594
p.s. if you ARE willing to solder and it is currently a RGBHV cable, we could turn it into a RGB cable with a stereo breakout.
You nerds might be able to figure this out.
My laseractive has an issue with its composite video output. The picture looks like I'm watching it slightly cross-eyed. There's a nice looking image, then the there's a faded image shifted slightly to the right of it.
What usually causes this? Is there a name for it? I've seen in in some poor video rips before.
Any recommended s-video cables for the n64? All I know is to avoid the ones that also have a composite cable with it.
>>3333995
Ghosting. I'd check my cables and try a shorter and/or thicker shielded one for video.
>>3334285
I took a picture. You can see the outline of the numbers showing up to their right.
The cables I'm using are pretty beast, and it's showed up on 2 different setups.
Might it just be a ntsc composite thing?
>>3334297
velocity modulation ?
>>3334174
My N64 with both composite and s-video on one cable looks fine (though for whatever reason I get checkerboarding in luma unless I plug both the composite and s-video cables in).
Mine's just an new-ish (maybe 2011?) gamestop cable, the same one I use for audio from my SNES (which is RGB modded).
It's a cable that had plugs for multiple systems - the original xbox & 360, the PSX and PS2, and the Gamecube/N64 (it doesn't mention the SNES, but that works too). I clipped off the fucking massive M$ console plugs because they looked ugly and huge and left the PSX and nintendo ones.
It actually is a good cable, but I don't think GameStop sells it anymore. There's probably a generic Chinese equivalent. I think gamestop rebadged Mad Catz cables.
It's not a fully populated connector (useless for RGB cable making), but it works well with those qualifiers.
>>3334297
It's ghosting, it's typically caused by poor shielding or impedance mismatches. It's not inherent to composite video.
>>3334303
Oh, yeah, it could be that, too. I'd try to disable scan velocity modulation before messing with cables, if your service menu has it.
>>3334316
Fun fact, if you get the component version of this cable, you can hook up a PS1 Via RGB if you use composite as sync.
>>3334332
What about the coupling caps?
>>3332383
And after that, murican still believe their RCA is good ??
Look Actraiser on SNES PAL with RGB.
[url=http://www.noelshack.com/2016-27-1467584097-snesrgb.jpg][img]http://image.noelshack.com/minis/2016/27/1467584097-snesrgb.png[/img][/url]
>>3334363
>>3334363
http://www.noelshack.com/2016-27-1467585015-snesrgb.jpg
![461[1].gif](https://i.imgur.com/31ovSIk.gif "461[1].gif")
>>3334363
>[url=http://www.noelshack.com/2016-27-1467584097-snesrgb.jpg][img]http://image.noelshack.com/minis/2016/27/1467584097-snesrgb.png[/img][/url]
I just picked up a little crt and am wondering what's the best way to connect my laptop to it. I have HDMI and VGA out, the TV only has RCA in.
Thanks
So I just got distracted into looking at spoof datasheets, but I've figured out how to disable scan velocity modulation on the game store owner's consumer set - the one I RGB modded (the jungle IC has a "SVM Out" pin - the datasheet's in japanese but since I'm in a scanlation group I think I'll be able to get someone to translate the description of the pin for me to make sure).
>>3334482
>RCA is a video signal format
I'm assuming it's one jack for video (probably yellow?) and one or two for audio (probably red/white). If so it's composite - so you'll want to search for something like "VGA to composite".
If it's got three jacks for video (probably colored red green and blue) and an additional two for audio (red and white), it's got ypbpr component over RCA jacks, and I'd search for VGA to component 480i.
I can't recommend a brand or product as I've never done this downscaling myself, but there you have it.
>>3334482
>only has composite in
Your only real choices are either an HDMI->composite converter box or a VGA->composite converter box. Both will probably add some lag, and are unlikely to support 240p ("scanlines"). Not really great options.
Pick up a wii for like $30. I recommend getting a GC-compatible one.
>>3334568
No problem.
I don't have any MS consoles, but isn't a hacked Xbox 360 capable of emulating a PSX at full speed?
>>3334571
Yeah I'm going to look into maybe a PS3 or original Xbox or something. I prefer to keep things as minimal as possible so we will see.
re the Wii: I honestly really hated having to use the WiiMote to get into the homebrew channel, is that still necessary?
>>3334568
Do you care about "scanlines" ( I have to put it in quotes or >freecunt will get triggered ) ? Do they have to be 'authentic'?
If you're super space-limited, you might be better off returning/giving away/storing that TV set and picking up a ~13" PC monitor, they all take 640x480 VGA. If you fuss with the settings enough you can get the scanlines to look pretty close. Only downside is you lose the ability to run real hardware (without a converter).
>>3334341
Caps are mainly there to remove excess voltage from the video lines, and isn't "explicitly" required in order for things to work properly. Not having them could cause some hiccups with certain sets.
I can say from experience that none of my PVMs or Megaview have give any problems when using a Component cable paired with a guncon breakout for RGBS.
These days, I've just been transcoding all of my YPbPr sources to RGB just to simplify things and get around a quirk my OEV203 currently has.
>>3334583
Hmm, that's a good idea about the monitor, thanks, I might do that. This tv was only $5.
>>3334575
Just looked into the 360 - apparently you have to solder a chip down to mod them. If you don't know how to do that, I'd look elsewhere. The wii has a PSX emulator, too - does it run too slow or something?
>>3334629
Thanks you, I appreciate it. I do have some soldering experience. From what I've read, 360's can be softmodded. Techniques vary depending on the model of the console.
WiiSX isn't that good unfortunately.
>>3334598
>excess voltage
ehh, technically I guess. I'd specify "DC offset" though, since video still looks fine without the caps - it's just not easy to daisy chain and is discouraged
>>3334629
>The wii has a PSX emulator, too - does it run too slow or something?
Wii doesn't have anything that I'd call competent PSX emulation; Don't have any experience with it personally, but I'm pretty sure the HUEG would be the better place to look for Playstation emulation.
>>3334631
I thought that retroarch had a few PSX emulation cores?
>>3334575
>re the Wii: I honestly really hated having to use the WiiMote to get into the homebrew channel, is that still necessary?
no you can configure it to boot right to homebrew channel
>>3334635
Semantics. It's still excess voltage compared to the standard expected video signal voltage that most TVs are expecting to receive. Some are more lenient than others, especially professional gear.
>>3334631
I've never seen any methods for modding a 360 other than JTAG (requires soldering) and the reset hack (requires soldering).
I do know pre-february-2011 PS3's can be softmodded if they still are on the firmware of pre-february 2011.
Also, be sure to get your money from the PS3 linux user's class-action lawsuit. Fuck Sony so hard.
>>3334639
you can also use a classic controller's left joystick.
>>3334645
yours could be taken in a variety of ways; it could have meant greater-than-1vpp signals, for instance, which impacts luminosity. DC offset doesn't.
Yeah, I'm nitpicking though.
>>3334639
That's amazing. I might just grab my Wii from back home and do that. I suppose I can afford the Wii with a slim PS2 on top. Those aren't that hard to mod if I recall correctly.
>>3334674
I believe you use Bootmii if you want it to launch straight to the homebrew channel. I tried to make mine do this but never figured it out - selecting the homevrew channel made it boot to the system menu anyway.
>>3334697
I suspect that's what happened with mine.
Also looking into a raspberry pi 3 as they're cheap, can do PSX well (even some DC games) and I think can output to 240p with some fussing.
Looks like the pi is actually useful now instead of just being hobby thing to setup.
>>3334734
theres a VGA add-on for the pi if thats any help (otherwise you need to go from hdmi to vga to RGB)
as far as i know, no one has tried 240p on it
>>3334638
None of them work on Wii
PCSX-ReARMed only runs well on ARM devices. Wii is PowerPC so it can't use the dynarec.
Beetle-PSX is far too slow for Wii since it's an accurate emulator that uses interpreters and software renderers.
>>3334787
I'm pretty sure you can set the composite out to be work at 320x240 by changing the framebuffer.
>>3334848
The interlace is set by firmware.
>>3329027
>If you hook up a PC to a CRT TV and use a scanline filter, can you get a sharp-looking image from 480i?
A scanline filter wont work on 480i
>Alternatively, what's the best way to hook up a PC to a CRT and play emulators in 240p?
Software: groovymame, Hardware: old radeon cart supported by crt emudriver, connected by scart (Euro), or vga to component transcoder (US)
https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=100&t=86658&start=175
this thread is relevant to our discussion
theres no way to get 240p out of the composite port
heres what the creator of the VGA port for rpi said:
>Im looking after Gerts website for a while, but im afraid im not an expert on his stuff. I did work on the broadcom chip though. Gerts vga board is just a simple resistor ladder A to D converter that turns the parallel digital outputs of the DPI block into analogue signals. So you have 3 colours and 2 syncs which should be enough to drive your display.
>I would think it is quite possible to change the DPI settings so that it runs at the required frame rate and X-Y size to drive
your monitor, although I havent checked to make sure it can go that low. It was supposed to drive small lcd displays though so i suspect that it can. However you would potentially have to set up other graphics components in the system to produce the required size of display (x by y pixels) if this isnt already supported.
>So as far as I know the V3D will be generating screen images of a fixed X-Y size in memory that contain the screen contents.
The Video scaler will be scaling and compositing several layers of these images into a screen resolution output stream that is sent to the DPI for outputting. Changing all of this is certainly possible but way outside my field of knowledge.
>It may be possible to simply reprogram the scaler to scale the images to the required size, and the DPI to output them. I think this would be a question for one of the video experts on the Pi forums as its mainly going to be a software issue.
>>3331965
last time I had that happen my cable wasn't grounded very well.
Ok someone has used the VGA666 adapter to get 240p out of a pi2
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,148129.msg1545662.html#msg1545662
and another towards the bottom of this page
https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=100&t=86658&start=200
i may have to try this out
Well, shit. Looks like to disable SVM on this TV I'm going to have to rig up an I2C interface. Fuck you Zenith.
>>3334825
none of them work *well on the wii, but point taken. Damn.
>>3335096
(sorry I have to ask, I was always a nintendo guy first and foremost)
Can't the PS2 play PSX games? or is that only the fat ones? I'm aware of a couple games with compatibility issues, but it's supposed to be something like 97% compatible I thought.
>>3335112
No worries!
Yeah both PS2's can play PS1 games. I'm not aware of any compatibility issues
The original PS3 run had native PS2 backwards compatibility but that was cut pretty shortly after to make the system cheaper (Sony was losing stupid amounts of money per console).
>>3335096
he used an HDMI to VGA adapter and then a GBS 8200
unfortunately that is expensive and laggy
getting the VGA port to work would be a lagless experience
So i got my shadow mask 17" PC CRT to sync down to 640x400 today using intel's standard resolution program
It was syncing down to 512x384 but suddenly stopped. I feel like someone could make a program to get 240p (at 120 or 144hz) out of intel drivers easily
anyway I love the look of shadow mask scanlines, why were the wider dark spaces of aperture grilles ever preferred in the first place?
Testing my Nexus 6's camera.
Seems alright. I think I'm gonna add a RAW shooting mode to OpenCamera though.
>>3335129
Shadow masks are just as capable as trinitrons of having those 'anti-lines', though it'd be harder to make them that way beyond a point.
The main real technical advantage of the trinitron style tube is that you can light more of the surface area of the tube than with a tri-dot mask, so images appear brighter. Trinitrons got their reputation due to a bright color image - the early shadow mask tubes they competed against could not compete.
TV's moved to a 'slot mask' style from tri-dot because this gets very close to the luminance of an aperture grille, but the result is a drastically lower maximum resolution while retaining said brightness.
Tri-dot masks, with the improved phosphors of recent decades, can match the detail of an aperture grille - if they both used the same phosphors, the AG would still win on brightness, though.
Anyway, AGs were historically thought of as 'the best' because they initially had a huge improvement upon their contemporary competitors. They got a 'high end' idea attached to them. It stuck.
The only real disadvantages of AGs are weight and the dampening wires.
But anyway, not all trinitrons/AG tubes have vast black areas. Consumer TV ones are pretty similar to consumer TV slot shadow masks when viewed at the same distance; they simply have the 'trinitron' name, and the associated weight and dampening wires and a slightly higher luminance.
Sony did make a sturdy and reliable TV, though, usually, so you knew what you were getting.
>>3335129
p.s. I agree, I absolutely love tri-dot shadowmasks. Though I like my PC trinitron monitor, too.
Old pic, tri-dot 15khz panasonic BT-H1390YN video monitor next to my sony CPD-100SF PC monitor (made circa 1996).
What kinda RGB mod you want senpai?
>>3335129
>>3335154
>>3335184
Ok I got it to sync down to 320x240@120Hz, and opened up BSNES and it looks a little different than I expected.
Almost looks like the intel drivers are pulling some kind of line doubling BS on me.
What do you guys think?
This is definitely my favorite temple in OOT.
>>3335190
Well first, you should be rotating your pics.
Second, is this linux?
Windows isn't exactly flexible with video modes.
Intel drivers under linux do work in your scenario.
>>3335206
oh yeah, amd it does look like it's scaling.
>>3335187
What the fuck is that IC for?
>>3335217
(external) RGB amp! I know, it's beautiful.
>>3335206
It was windows and yeah youre right it was doing some kind of super shitty line doubling
480p looks similar scaling wise but 10x sharper
>>3335221
Why isn't RGB being amplified INSIDE your consoles (assuming you actually did that)?
I mean, cool, I guess, but I'd have drilled holes on the back of the TV and added some more jacks.
Still experimenting with exposure settings.
>>3335187Just jack my shit up.
>>3335190
>>3335248
Zoomed in so close, it's somewhat hard to tell, but it wouldn't be surprising if some line doubling was happening. The gaps between scan lines is almost non-existent there. Based on the sharpness comment, it wouldn't be surprising if it wasn't treating it as 320x200 and trying to double it to 640x400 rather than 480 which would result in a clean picture.
>>3335197
>>3335206
>>3335213
>>3335217
Ignoring your different stances on shit, you could (have) avoided a shit load of the heat you get by just pausing, reading through posts and condensing your usual 3-6 posts into single posts instead of feeling the need to shoot off 5 single sentence(if that) responses right up against the cooldown timer.
Seriously, you take up nearly 1/5th of all the posts from the last several threads. There's no need for any of it.
>>3335251
Laseractive has a metal case and a decent amount of various boards floating around inside. I don't see why they should damage the case when just testing to make sure everything is even working as it properly should.
