When did PC gaming become better than console gaming? Obviously PC gaming was better than console gaming before 1983, but after the Famicom I don't think PC gaming really got better until 1987. I believe PC gaming has been the superior choice since 1987. What do you think?
>>3300868
Europe: around 1984
America: not till 1994
>>3300878
Why was America so far behind? Commodore and Atari were both American companies. Did they just like shit like Apple or something?
>>3300880
Because us Americans were stupid and preferred console gaming over computers. I hate to say it, but Europe had us beat when it came to making games.
>>3300883
Well Europeans are white, so...
>>3300883
You're kidding me, right? Yuropoor games pre-1992 were trash, just bad knockoffs of Jap console games. Essentially every important development in PC gaming in the early days was American.
>>3300880
IBM PC was the standard here and it was complete shit for gaming
>>3300893
Damn. Do you guys still have bad taste in computers?
>>3300890
What? Americans were hardly even aware of scrolling. You mostly played adventure games and single screen games. The games that pushed hardware limitations of the day were European.
>>3300883
You also liked Nintendo for some reason. Any rationale behind that?
Arcade > *
>>3300868
It happened during the 7th gen, which was abnormally long and gave PC lots of time to catch-up. The cheap 8th gen machines have yet to catch up, but that's why we're getting the PS4 Neo/Project Scorpio.
>>3300897
>You also liked Nintendo for some reason. Any rationale behind that?
Nintendo's mascot appealed to our American values and traditions.
Also, since it was marketed as a non-console, it was able to fill a niche that Atari had failed to stay relevant in. We were afraid of consoles after their blunders with the 2600 and 5200.
>>3300897
>Damn. Do you guys still have bad taste in computers?
We use the same x86 stuff as everybody else these days.
>You also liked Nintendo for some reason. Any rationale behind that?
Lots of marketing, draconian developer contracts that stifled competitors, and the dubious "seal of quality" differencing it from the free-for-all that was the Atari.
Let's go down the list:
Text adventure: American
Graphic adventure: American
CRPG: American
Strategy: American
Flight sim: American
FPS: American
Platformer: Japanese
Scrolling platformer: Japanese
3D platformer: Japanese
Console RPG: Japanese
And Yurop invented...?
>>3300907
>Nintendo's mascot appealed to our American values and traditions.
African monkeys stealing the blonde girlfriends of European immigrants?
Didn't knew that getting cucked was an American value and tradition going back as far as the 18th century.
>>3300906
Hahah no. An 8 year old mid range PC is still better than the xbone / ps4
>>3300897
>What? Americans were hardly even aware of scrolling. You mostly played adventure games and single screen games. The games that pushed hardware limitations of the day were European.
Laddy, we had console games for that and also those were far better made and professionally produced than the tape shovelware on the Spectrum and C64.
>>3300928
First platformer was Crazy Climber, first side scrolling platformer was Pac Land, and first 3D was SM64, so all Japanese.
>>3300932
So you had to buy a whole new machine just to play games which were not even better than what could be played on a C64? What a waste of money. Especially if you only got Nintendo shovelware.
>>3300935
>and first 3D was SM64
lol, Nintendo fanboys are so ignorant it's cute.
>>3300906
>It happened during the 7th gen, which was abnormally long and gave PC lots of time to catch-up.
uh, no.
The only single time consoles were ahead of computers was for like half a year when the N64 came out. But if we count all computers, that would include workstations too, in which case consoles were never ahead at any point.
>>3300936
>So you had to buy a whole new machine just to play games which were not even better than what could be played on a C64?
Yeah, Mr. Wino and Turrican were really better games than Castlevania, Mega Man, SMB3, and Ninja Gaiden.
>>3300914
>And Yurop invented...?
The USA as we know it today.
>>3300935
>First platformer was Crazy Climber
No, that's retarded.
>first side scrolling platformer was Pac Land
I hope this is satire.
>and first 3D was SM64
AHAHAHA this is gold. Good parody of an American Jap lover.
>>3300941
Turrican definitely was. Most of those games had multiple ports on computers. All except Mario, but who cares? Mario was arse.
Never forget the Stamper brothers saying how they were awed at how much more sophisticated Nintendo games were than the shit being churned out on British home computers. Most of those games were rubbish.
>awful controls
>bugs everywhere
>often no actual ending - at a certain point the game would just glitch or lock up
I had a ZX Spectrum as a child and its games were a joke compared to the Japanese console ones.
>>3300914
>And Yurop invented...?
The fucking computer itself lel.
>>3300949
Turrican sure isn't better than Mega Man. Now, ok Manfred Trentz is a gifted programmer, but holy god he could not design levels to save his life. This was the perennial curse of Yurodevs--they could design nice graphics and music, but when it came to level design, they came up hilariously short.
>>3300868
I don't think "better" is the right word. Console and PC gaming had different things to offer to different markets.
>>3300953
I recall that the ENIAC was American and it was built when you were too busy, ah, cleaning up rubble.
>>3300951
Because games were more heavily produced. But there were still British and European games that pushed the limitations of their systems. They were just made, generally, by bedroom coders. Which really says more about the technical proficiency of the average European and Briton of the time.
>>3300951
Yeh that's the difference between a game designed in three weeks by one neckbeard versus console games made by professional coders/musicians/graphics artists who had an entire year to work on it and a review board to certify that the game was fit and ready to be delivered.
>>3300958
It is. Mega Man isn't even very good. It's just a gimmick with some boring level design.
The Great Giana Sisters had far, far greater level design than Super Mario Brothers. Head to head, Giana Sisters is the better game. I really don't know what constitutes good level design to you. Simplicity? Ease? Who knows.
>>3300972
>The Great Giana Sisters had far, far greater level design than Super Mario Brothers. Head to head, Giana Sisters is the better game
This is a troll, right?
Who am I kidding? He's just pulling my leg at this point.
>>3300976
Ignore that cunt. There's scores of these nostalgic twats who like to talk about how, say, James Pond was the pinnacle of video games because they were 10 years old back then.
>>3300958
>they could design nice graphics and music
Not even that. IDK if you call that fart wave stuff on 80s-early 90s games "music".
>>3300979
If you think SMB has better level design than TGGS then I seriously don't understand what goes through your head.
>>3300980
>Have you played TGGS? It has a far more intricate and challenging design than Mario.
GGS isn't even half the game SMB as far as enemies, level design, content, and especially music. This is even funnier considering the original C64 version is actually a good 25% larger than SMB (54k in size while SMB is 40k)
>>3300981
The C64 was capable of far higher quality music than the 8 bit home consoles.
>>3300986
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMTdr026bZU
The enemies don't even fall off the screen when you stomp them. And don't tell me that Chris Huelsbeck's music is even close to Koji Kondo's.
>>3300986
Mario is a fairly dull affair, which requires rudimentary skill and thought, has dull, low quality music that is typical of the Famicom, and is far more simple that TGGS. SMB is inferior in every way. I don't understand what you could possibly like in SMB that TGGS doesn't do better.
>>3300989
It wasn't the hardware, it was the type of music. They loved spamming arpeggios which made for some pretty godawful music.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7FILe8utwVU
See here, Robocop 3 for the NES which was developed by Ocean and has the same grating music as every Yuropoor computer game back then.
>>3300995
SMB has awful music, while TGGS has very good, well layered, and contemporary music that can be enjoyed independent of the game. The Famicom soundchip was also terrible.
>>3300996
Ah, see. I knew this is some unemployed 35 year old cunt on the dole who thinks the shovelware he had on his Amiga in 92 was the apex of PC gaming.
>>3301005
Oh look, a balding 35 year old yank who thinks the NES was the pinnacle of gaming.
>>3301005
Either that or his uncle is Tim Follin.
IMO the worst things in existence were those Spectrum conversions for the C64 (including all ports of Dizzy except Crystal Kingdom). You could always tell because they used the C64's monochrome hires mode and ran at about 2 fps because the cunts would just translate all the original Z80 assembly language into its equivalent 6502 instruction without changing or attempting to optimise anything. As you all know, you can not directly translate Z80 into 6502 asm without a massive, crippling loss of performance.
>>3301006
>Yanks
>saying "dole"
Are you even paying attention to the posts you're replying to?
>>3301017
Sorry for not knowing yankee vernacular. You're an Aussie who thinks the CPC was the height of gaming.
wait a minute, what's all this that our games were bad shovelware with arpeggio music? i recall that was mostly a Britbottle thing. Germany and other countries on the continent had many of the same kinds of games as Americans including RPGs and adventures, but nobody outside Germany knows about those due to the language barrier.
>>3301030
Didn't Brits not have disk drives?
>>3301032
Not on 8-bit computers they didn't except for the business market. Home users never had anything but tape storage. Continental Europeans always had disk drives. For some odd reason disks were more than 2x as expensive in the UK as elsewhere.
>>3300928
>Nintendo were just limiting what could be created for its machine.
Which sounded like a good idea after the clusterfuck of dubious games that caused the crash.
>>3301037
Oh, that's right. I forgot that the yankee home console market crashed.
>>3301037
They did it for good reason--a lot of the Atari shovelware was broken and not even playable and there was no guarantee it wouldn't damage your machine.
Also, more ominously, the NES came out right about the time when graphics were getting good enough to make porn games feasible and a few unlicensed ones managed to slip through despite Nintendo's best efforts.
>>3301045
They also made money selling cartridges and extorting third parties for licensing fees. The Jews.
>>3300981
>He doesn't like arpeggios
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFgXGw_kXpc
>>3301056
That's extremely cheap considering Robocop's in-game music is one of the top 5 SID tunes of all time...yet you had to instead link the shitty title screen music.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BG29xycW27E
I really like Mighty Bombjack. Wish this had been the norm for C64 music instead of fart wave crap.
Then again, I've never seen a C64 Top 10 list that didn't include Pirates!, Maniac Mansion, Ultima V, Lode Runner, and Boulder Dash all American games.
>>3301084
Maybe you should stop reading yankee lists.
>>3301089
These are on sites like Lemon64 which is hosted in Germany and about 75% of the user base are European:
I looked at their top 10 list and it's:
Zak McKracken
Maniac Mansion
Wasteland
Pirates!
Ikari Warriors
Last Ninja 2
Ultima IV
Prince of Persia
Ultima V
Archon
Literally nine American and one European game. The top 40 ranked games have only six total PAL region entries.
>>3301089
What would your favorite retro computer games be then?
>>3301105
Okay. They can have whatever opinion they want. What is your opinion?
The top 10 on Gamebase 64 is:
Boulder Dash
Impossible Mission
Bruce Lee
Summer Games
Bubble Bobble
Great Giana Sisters
Pirates!
Ghostbusters
Bard's Tale
Flimbo's Quest
That's 7 games made by US devs and just 3 made by Yurodevs.
>>3301107
The Populous series.
>>3301112
What metric is this based on? None of those games are technically impressive.
>>3301114
From a purely technical standpoint, the Lemon64 list is a bit better and I would agree that the LucasArts adventures and Ultima were pushing the C64 hardware more than, like, Ghostbusters which came out in 84 and is still comparatively primitive.
>>3301123
>LucasArts adventures and Ultima were pushing the C64 hardware
What? No they weren't.
>>3301126
Man, those things were huge multidisk epics that used almost the entire memory space in the computer. Ultima VI was an entire megabyte in size which makes it the largest C64 game ever released.
Don't tell me you think some shoddy Spectrum conversion like the Dizzy series were making better use of the C64 hardware than Ultima V.
>>3301130
That's not fair to use as a comparison because we didn't have disk storage. Multiload was a rare thing and you'd hate having to load not once but twice from a cassette tape.
>>3301112
Also I should add that that port of Bubble Bobble was done by a British dev (Firebird Software) and it sucks, especially the ear rape music. Go play it on the Amiga or the NES or the arcade game on MAME or anywhere but there.
>>3301136
Oh so now you're going to whine that it's our fault you couldn't play Maniac Mansion because no disk drives.
>>3301114
I assume it's based on gameplay and content.
>>3301153
So opinion?
>>3301130
Nice strawman. Being a large doesn't mean it pushes the capabilities of the system.
>>3301153
It seems to me like the troll rates games purely based on how many flashy graphics effects are in them.
>>3301161
You saying Kirby's Adventure wasn't pushing the Famicom?
>>3301165
I don't know what that is.
>>3300868
Haven't we had this thread before?
>>3301168
it's a dumb troll thinking you said huge games can't push a system. It's also assuming Kirby for some reason is, but that's a different can of worms altogether
Actually though, the SCUMM engine was originally created when Ron Gilbert realized that Maniac Mansion was too big and complex of a game to program in assembly language.
Microprose games were also up there since a lot of them were sims that required a large amount of mathematical calculations.
>>3301176
>mathematical calculations
as opposed to what other calculations?
>>3301168
>I don't know what that is
>retro game board
>hasn't heard of Kirby
What.
>>3301171
Maybe, maybe not. What's it matter though? Reposts are chan culture.
>>3300868
OF can suck a big one.
>>3301179
Most games only need integer math but stuff like flight sims requires floating point math. PCs generally did those games the best b/c analog joysticks and availability of a math coprocessor.
>>3301181
Wow, sorry for not growing up in your childhood, fuck head. Not everyone played the same games back then. What kind of a dumb shit doesn't understand regional differences?
>>3301175
>huge games can't push a system
I said a game being large doesn't mean it is pushing the capabilities of the system, you illiterate cretin.
>>3301190
integer math just so happens to be math. You suggested there are programs out there that do non-mathematical calculations
>flight sims requires floating point math
they really don't. They're tons better with floating point systems, but they don't require them
>>3301175
Eh, it's kind of nitpicking. The biggest Famicom game is Dragon Quest IV at 1MB but it's only an MMC1 cartridge. Castlevania 3 is only 384k but uses the MMC5 mapper.
>>3301196
>I said a game being large doesn't mean it is pushing the capabilities of the system
learn to read, fuckwad
>it's a dumb troll thinking you said huge games can't push a system
>thinking you said
>>3301198
as if the choice of MMC suggests how well the game uses the system
>>3301205
What the fuck is a fuckwad? Fucking yankee slang. I can hardly understand you retarded niggers.
>>3301190
A lot of PC flight sims in the 80s era could detect and use an x87 if you had one, but if not I guess they just used the (slow) main CPU for trigonometric work.
>>3301209
Yet he's arguing KA didn't make good use of the NES hardware?
>>3301212
>I can hardly understand you
indeed, bad reading comprehension. Keep practicing
>>3301221
who's suggesting that? >>3301161 certainly wasn't. All they said is that size is not a useful proxy. Big games may, or may not push a system, just like small games. >>3301165 just did a perfect 4chan comment, reading shit into a statement that's not there, thinking anon said big games can never push a system. From there on it just went up shit creek, as usual
Mayhem In Monsterland looks impressive in the audiovisual department, but no, it's not nearly as good as Kirby or the late Mega Mans as far as content/gameplay.
>>3301228
OF doesn't know any better.
>>3301235
>it's not as good as games I liked as a kid because of nostalgia
FTFY
>>3301242
Right. Just as I said. He thinks Spectrum tape shovelware like Mr. Wino was better than Castlevania because some demented nostalgia wankery.
>>3301245
I said, you cunt, that Nintenyearold games sucked and YOU only liked them because of nostalgia, not me.
>>3301245
Nice strawman.
>>3301252
So who's games suck and are only good b/c nostalgia? His or yours?
>>3301272
OF's
>>3301280
So long as I'm not OF
>>3301280
I like tacos.
X1 > Famicom
>>3301301
everything > famicom
>>3301304
NES > Famicom?
>>3300961
>The more canonical example in American textbooks, the ENIAC, could only be “programmed” by physically rewiring its internals. It’s probably better understood as an elaborate calculating machine than a true computer; its original purpose was to calculate static artillery firing tables. As in so many things, politics plays a role in ENIAC’s anointment. The first computer programmable entirely in software, pre-dating even Whirlwind, was EDSAC-1, built at Cambridge University in Britain. That such a feat was first managed abroad seems to be just a bit more than some Americans in Silicon Valley and elsewhere can bring themselves to accept.
http://www.filfre.net/2016/06/simcity-part-1-will-wrights-city-in-a-box/
>>3301309
They're the same thing, yankee.
>>3301321
anon said everything, and I think on here you'll find plenty people considering famicom and nes to be quite different
>tfw this totally flies in the face of everything posted here
>>3300617
>>3301002
>>3300914
>Console RPG: Japanese
The D&D games on the Intellivision were American.
>>3301330
The Famicom has a number of addons that weren't released for the NES. Connectivity is also different.
>>3301330
I can see a way or two. Also, different markets
>>3301346
so am I
>>3301348
Then what's the difference. Answer the question this time.
>>3301352
use your eyes, or do some basic research
>>3301353
Ok, so you don't know any. Why did you try to lie?
>>3301363
Know plenty, they're visible on the pic too. Just not interested in dealing with your tone. So think what ever you want to think
>>3300935
>first 3D
Pretty sire that was Alpha Waves by infogrames.... So actually French
Pretty solid game really
>>3301370
That picture only shows the shells. I'm talking about the actual hardware, not cosmetics. I said that already. Just admit that they're the same machine.
>>3300868
>When did PC gaming become better than console gaming? Obviously PC gaming was better than console gaming before 1983, but after the Famicom I don't think PC gaming really got better until 1987. I believe PC gaming has been the superior choice since 1987.
"Better" is a relative word. PCs were still expensive and not many people had them during the early 90s, so even if the games were good, it can't be called "good" in terms of gaming when so few were actually playing the games.
My reply would be, at the death of the first Playstation and the emergance of the Nintendo64, that's when PC gaming got better than consoles. Around 1998-2000.
After this console games started getting very streamlined and the creativity seems to have been replaced by a desire for profit rather than a gaming experience.
Pic related, how can you release a console with 240*320 resolution and a memory pack for high res, when playstaion had the higher resolution by default (or at least higher, some games had weird resolutions like 540*480 or something).
Nintendo killed console gaming with the N64.
>>3301704
>when playstaion had the higher resolution by default (or at least higher, some games had weird resolutions like 540*480 or something).
That's totally rubbish. The vast majority of PS1 games were 320x240, and a handful of games were "high-res" 512x224.
High-res N64 games were usually something around 480x480
>>3301706
Most N64 games didn't use the memory pack so they were limited to 320*240.
You can easily check the actual resolution of PsX games with a gameshark type device. I never saw any game with 320*240, they all had higher resolution than that.
>>3301704
>PCs were still expensive and not many people had them during the early 90s
>>3301704
How could Nintendo dare to release a console with a resolution of 256x240 when the PC88 was capable of 640x400?
>>3301742
what textured realtime 3D did the PC88 do at that resolution?
>>3301746
You should be asking how many simultaneous colors it had at that resolution.
>>3301772
no interest. Dithering and optimized palettes work pretty well. In fact, I suppose I'd love to see a well done 3D engine using 16 colors and dithering. Especially if it swaps out the colors as needed
>>3301775
The PC88 can't do 16 colors in any resolution except for the VA series. The standard is 8 colors at 640x200. You're not going to get far with dithering when you only have two colors available.
Classic polygon games are Silpheed, Starcruiser or Wibarm
>>3301797
There are plenty of CGA games doing dithering at 4 colors. I don't understand where you get the 2 from.
Silpheed looks good, but I'm not sure it's realtime polygonal. Starcruiser uses a small viewport, understandably, but looks solid, although its framerate is probably in the single digits. Wibarm looks odd. I'm a little surprised that Wibarm insists on dithering. It would probably perform much better if they used the plain colors
Its always been superior. If you dont think this you are cherry picking your examples.
>>3301826
What about muh Anyess??
>>3301826
PCs historically sucked on anything involving excessive scrolling and huge sprites, the native domains of 2D consoles. Reason being that on the PC the CPU had to do all the work on a pixel level, and the graphics card had to be fast enough to receive the new pixel data. Meanwhile on 2D consoles the PPU/statemachine does everything automagically, leaving the CPU completely unburdened, and free to do game mechanics. Even in the early and mid 90s smooth scrolling was an achievement and huge sprites were noteworthy.
Meanwhile PCs completely outperformed consoles whenever large savestates were involved, or visuals that did not rely on straight up tiles. Polygonal 3D, textured 3D, voxels, and of course RTS, eco sims, sims in general. And of course the PC stomped consoles whenever you needed more than 10 keys. To a degree specialty inputs, like wheels, mice and joysticks were more common on PCs as well, but that changed over time.
Graphically things only changed when 3D was introduced into the mix. Reason being, while PCs had no interest in dedicated 2D hardware, dedicated 3D hardware was almost inevitable. From that point on, consoles and PC competed on equal ground, with a few very important differences. PCs were not constrained by generations or budget. So the 3D hardware on PCs quickly outperformed consoles.
To this day though PC rules when it comes to complex input. Even the most sophisticated controller mapping is no match for a 100+ keys keyboard with modifier keys. Unfortunately the sim genre is largely dead.
>>3301810
>I don't understand where you get the 2 from.
From NEC's specs. You can do dithering with 2 colors but it's not going to make up for the reduced palette. It's like b&w Mac with a slightly higher resolution.
>Silpheed looks good, but I'm not sure it's realtime polygonal.
It's obvious when you compare it to sprite-based shooters which run like complete ass.
>>3301851
What the fuck? Even the C64 scrolled as smoothly as any console. The Amiga had no trouble. You're talking shit.
>>3301856
>From NEC's specs
interesting. So you have 8 colors total on screen, but can only have 2 colors on sub-regions, that are likely bigger than 2x2?
>It's obvious when you compare it to sprite-based shooters which run like complete ass.
Odd, I'd expect the polygonal shooter to run like ass, due to the overhead of rasterizing the polygons, instead of just blitting the sprites over
>>3301715
>Most N64 games didn't use the memory pack so they were limited to 320*240.
That's because the N64 needs extra memory space to hold a z-buffer.
3dfx Voodoo for example was limited to 640x480 with z-buffer and 800x600 without z-buffer on the 4 MB model.
>I never saw any game with 320*240, they all had higher resolution than that.
Perhaps you should look at a larger selection of games. Crash, Spyro, etc are the exception, not the rule at 512x224.
Gameshark probably shows the post-scaled resolution (usually has some letterboxing that sometimes get pushed into overscan) anyway instead of the framebuffer resolution
>>3301865
You can either have 640x400@2colors out of 8 or 640x200@8 out of 8 colors. Later models increased the possible palette to 512 but the simultaneous colors remained the same.
The competing FM-7 had more complex layout with 3 monochrome planes of 640x200.
>>3301894
thanks for the clarification
>>3301857
Trying to smooth scroll either computer is pretty frustrating compared with the utter simplicity of scrolling on the NES/SNES/Mega Drive.
Quoting Fire Emblem Guy
PCS DIDN'T CARE ABOUT GAMING AND DIDN'T COMPETE WTIH GAME CONSOLES FOR GAMING
ITT: Retards who don't understand that consoles and PCs lend themselves to a different kind of gaming
>>3301197
>You suggested there are programs out there that do non-mathematical calculations
No, he just said that those games required large amounts of them, and you started nitpicking as to what other calculations they would have needed.
>>3301857
>>3301851
C64, Amiga, and consoles, all had hardware sprites. The IBM PC did not, it had a dumb and slow framebuffer.
It wasn't until the mid 90s that PCs became superior, first by bruteforcing the framebuffer and CPU speed so they could run 3d games entirely in software, and then once the 3d accelerators started coming out.
>>3303129
Yes, Microprose had a lot of sims and these are math-intensive games.
>>3303134
As did the ZX Spectrum yet most of its games were much more tightly programmed than IBM PC rubbish.
>>3303139
The Spectrum had one system configuration. PCs did not. That's an unfair comparison.
>>3303139
Nobody gives a shit about the Spectrum though, only brits.
>>3303178
Except it was also quite popular in Spain not to mention the scores of Spectrum clones in Eastern Europe.
>>3303291
As if.
>NES
>set up tile data and move X and Y scroll registers
>Amiga
>have a bunch of memory pointers that have to be constantly updated every pixel you advance the screen
>C64
>have to slowly shovel char data into the scroll buffer
>also double buffering is required if you don't want screen tearing
>>3303312
You know nothing.
>>3303315
You've never tried to program the shit, have you?
>>3303341
I hope you haven't with your lack of knowledge.
>>3303291
>Who gives a fuck about IBM PCs?
People that aren't Yurosemens. :^)
>>3303134
>C64, Amiga, and consoles, all had hardware sprites
But at the same time, C64 and Amiga still were not as good as consoles at side scrollers.
>>3300868
Console gaming became the best during the 16-bit era. It remained the best option until the 7th generation.
>>3303351
>enjoying crappy PCs because of your nationalism
>>3303351
burgers embarrassing themselves as usual
>170 posts
>only 26 posters
>>3303559
>how dare people post multiple times in a thread!!!! 1 post per person!!!!
>>3303641
I meant it's 2-3 samefagging idiots arguing with each other for hours.
As a Britfag, I would like to apologise to /vr/ on behalf of my autistic countrymen ITT.
>>3303672
They were already #rekt in here anyway.
>>3303672
Aussie Kun strikes again. Almost makes me wonder if he's being paid to shitpost
>>3303673
By what? IBM PCs? Lmao
Unlike the underage children who only know about 80s computer games from e-celebs, I actually did have a ZX Spectrum back then and I will say with pretty solid conviction that its games were mostly amateurish rubbish and there's no reason whatsoever today to play them outside nostalgia.
>>3303686
Fucking traitor cunt.
28th poster here
>When did PC gaming become better than console gaming?
I don't know, never owned a console, nothing against them
>>3303686
Nobody is defending the Spectrum. Why do underage b&s and yakees obsess over it? It was a budget computer. It was for poor people. The point of this thread is to talk about the good computers of their time, like the C64 and, later, the Amiga and Archimedes.
The only time when consoles might have possibly been better was 1985-95 and mostly because of computers not being so good at side scrollers.
>>3303714
The Speccy was actually a very fine piece of engineering built on the same philosophy as the Apple II which was using clever hardware design to get colour graphics out of a low-budget TTL logic design. The same couldn't be said of Commodore and their custom ICs.
>>3303716
There were lots of good side scrollers on the C64 and Amiga. Being more time consuming to make didn't mean no one made them.
>>3303716
>1985-95
you mean that single period where PCs produced such a wide range of graphics engines and genres completely impossible on consoles, the golden days before 3D accelerators stomped out all creativity? Really?
>>3303721
>The Speccy was actually a very fine piece of engineering
But, like the Crapple 2, not a fine piece of hardware
>>3303723
Some of them were ok, almost none can touch the best Nintendo/Konami/Capcom/Sega side scrollers. They were campy, low budget, and sold in the Tesco's discount bin and that was that.
>>3303721
Also all of the ICs in the Speccy are still manufactured or readily available, so if something breaks it can be easily replaced. You can't do that with proprietary ICs that haven't been made in 25 years.
>>3303734
>none can touch the best Nintendo/Konami/Capcom/Sega side scrollers
That's some fine opinion.
>>3303724
>the golden days before 3D accelerators stomped out all creativity
Yes, that reminds me. Gotta extend the consoles being better all the way until the end of 1996.
Up till then PC had such wonderful and powerful 3D accelerators such as the S3 Virge.
>>3303730
The Apple II came out in 1977. Cripes, this was Pong-era stuff. How many other computers at that time had standard sound/color graphics.
The dozens of awful Ocean arcade ports pretty much disprove any idea that Eurodevs were "better".
>>3303747
>Pong-era stuff
What? No. Moron.
TRS-80 and PET would like a word with you.
>>3303721
>Transistor-Transistor Logic logic
>>3303756
Neither of those had bitmap graphics, color, or sound. Yet he claims the Apple II was bad hardware?
>>3303758
you're really gonna complain about PNS syndrome? really?
>>3303751
The dozens of awful NES games disproves any idea that Jap devs were better.
The dozens of awful Atari games disproves any idea that Amerifat devs were better.
>>3303762
They tried selling it over here and it flopped because it was too expensive and couldn't display colour on our TVs.
>>3303762
It was. So were the others, but the PET was better than the Crapple hipster machine despite deficiencies in the cosmetic areas you mentioned. It was quickly outclassed, along with Apple, in the 80s.
>>3303768
I wonder if this underage twat has ever even played a Speccy or C64 game. Most of them were pure rubbish made in two weeks by one code monkey.
>>3303773
How was the PET better? It had monochrome character graphics, no expansion slots, sound, and was limited to 32k of memory while the Apple and TRS-80 had 48k. Also they had standard RS-232 and whatnot interfaces instead of Commodore's proprietary everything.
>>3303780
I wonder if this underage twat has ever even played an Atari 2600 or Anyess game. Most of them were pure rubbish made in two weeks by one code monkey.
>>3303768
>Europe never made an awful game ever
delusional much?
We were always behind Americans. They had the Apple II in the late 70s when Sinclair were still selling calculator kits. They had 16-bit computers right as we were just getting the 48k rubber keyboard Spectrum.
>>3303791
Except when the computer was invented in Europe.
>>3303794
>having only 32k of memory against your competitors' 48k is cosmetic
Besides, business software like chart making is a lot easier with actual bitmap graphics. That was a huge selling point at the time and it was almost a law that every computer ad had to show the thing with a pie chart on screen.
>>3303794
Never said they didn't idiot
>>3303798
How can something be 'almost' a law?
>>3303785
The PET was huge in Europe, in fact a good 60% of its market was over here but the other two essentially didn't exist.
>>3303802
And I never said Europeans didn't.
Apple II had the best graphics/sound/expandability.
TRS-80 had the best BASIC+Centronics standard printer interface
PET was the easiest to set up and use, also it had the most diverse range of disk storage options.
>it's another "HAHA AMERICANS LIKE NINTENDO" thread
why don't you fucking get laid already
>>3303806
there being no actually law produced by a governing body, yet everybody doing something as if it was a legal requirement
>>3303559
it's the typical "y-yanks!" shitposter who really hates nintendo
sage and report
>>3303819
So filling the market niche is a law now?
>>3300949
don't make me laugh, fucktard
reminder that pic related is your average turrican level design
>>3303825
>almost
>>3303840
>there being no actually law produced by a governing body, yet everybody doing something as if it was a legal requirement
>>3303840
>While the typical Mega Man level involves disappearing blocks.
and in most games that can be skipped if you have the right item
it's less annoying than having to press UP to fucking jump and having to weave in and out at the same time
and fun fact, nigger: turrican wouldn't exist if it didn't have nintendo games to rip off very poorly like metroid
What I'm more concerned with is
>50s: USA invented video games, and by extension PC gaming since it was only available on a terminal computer
>70s-80s: America focuses a tiny bit into computer gaming, but were still pre-occupied with console gaming
>90s: America becomes a behemoth in the computer scene, being responsible for such hits as Doom, Quake, and Diablo
>2000s: They scale back a bit and focus more on consoles, as evidenced by Halo and American pubs focusing only on consoles but not PC
>past decade: They are responsible for some of the worst, most barebones PC ports ever like Arkham Knight and Saints Row 2
Why was the US a powerhouse for PC gaming almost exclusively in the 90s? You can't even argue "because consoles", the 90's was the birth of THE most popular console ever; the PlayStation. So what gives?
>>3303851
>You can't even argue "because consoles"
You can't expect a useful answer if you exclude valid avenues of reasoning
>>3303854
The NES dominated the USA. The Genesis dominated the USA. The PlayStation dominated the USA. But they still made games for PCs. America's shift to consoles is actually a relatively new thing, and this is true today where PC versions are just prettier console ports. Then again, the console market must've grown tremendously in 6th gen, that might be the reason.
>>3303878
So you figured already that it's not just the existence of consoles that caused it, there must be more to it. Keep thinking.
>the console market must've grown tremendously in 6th gen, that might be the reason.
No, not really. It might play a part in it, but other aspects were more pressing
>>3303851
THE most popular console ever was the PS2, mate.
>>3303887
If you're referring to software revenue, then yeah, it's true consoles far and away led the way. But that was true before the 90s, and true after the 90s. But the 90s is when the USA seemed to care the most about PC than consoles, any time before and after, consoles were and always will be #1 for software revenue.
>>3303901
in /vr/ terms
>>3303961
Only because the average yankee is too stupid to use a computer.
>>3303970
So are you saying that the yankees were incapable of using computers past the 90s? Not because of monetary reasons or anything, but because they had to 'idiot proof' games?
>>3303979
Yanks generally used computers for business and consoles for recreation.
It's part of our "do one thing and do it right" mindset.
>>3303990
Except you did both wrong. You sold your business to China and you used crappy Jap consoles.
>>3304014
>sold your business to China
Just the ThinkPad line, because IBM had no reason to keep making them after they achieved perfection with T42.
>you used crappy Jap consoles.
That was an unfortunate side-effect of the 2600 having too much software freedoms, damning our industry.
>>3304034
>IBM
>perfection
HAHAHAHAHA this is worse than Brits loving the Spectrum
>That was an unfortunate side-effect of the 2600 having too much software freedoms, damning our industry.
No, it was giving Americans software freedom that damned your industry. Everywhere else was like that and there were no crashes in those countries.
>>3304069
If Europe were so great at making games, how come they never tried to enter the console sphere to compete with Atari, Nintendo and Sega?
Face it, you Eurocunts are just jealous that America and Japan's gaming scenes utterly trumped yours.
>>3304103
They did. Amstrad had a console. They weren't trying to compete with Nintendo or Atari, who were virtually non-existent, they were competing with Sega's Master System. Unfortunately the Mega Drive was right around the corner.
>>3304103
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1292_Advanced_Programmable_Video_System
>>3304103
>Why didnt a market that was based around home computers upsticks and move solely to consoles?
We did try at consoles
We had the CD32 and the Amstrad GX4000 but the focus was on the C64 and the Amiga. Alot of devs moved on to the PC and Playstation platforms after the Amiga ended
>>3304103
Being great at making games doesn't mean you're great at hardware.
ITT: 16 year olds screaming at each other about computers that came out before they were born and that they've never used or emulated.
>>3304324
Fuck off, yank. Your country didn't even use computers until 2000.
>>3303851
>70s-80s: America focuses a tiny bit into computer gaming, but were still pre-occupied with console gaming
This is a troll, right?
>>3304034
>Just the ThinkPad line, because IBM had no reason to keep making them after they achieved perfection with T42
IBM gave up because they've never been good at marketing to anything but the business world. All their attempts to sell to the home/educational market fell flat.
>>3303961
>But the 90s is when the USA seemed to care the most about PC than consoles, any time before and after, consoles were and always will be #1 for software revenue
>I just imagined all the millions of SNES/Genesis/PS1/N64s sold back then
>>3304332
>m-muh yank!
what the fuck is wrong with you, stop posting here every day
everyone, go look up the word "yank" in the archives
>>3303961
>If you're referring to software revenue
I am not. In my opinion the solution is a bit different. The mid 90s were a special period, in terms of computer capabilities, where a lot of things came together. PCs suddenly had sound cards, CD drives, and quite capable CPUs. That enabled a huge variety of non-standard engines, stuff that was only limited by the developer's imagination. Meanwhile consoles were fairly rigid machines, with purpose-built components, relying on developers using the "hardware engine", if you will. Also, PC had quite low development costs, at least compared to consoles, requiring the upfront costs of the license and dev kit.
Fast forward a couple years and consoles "caught up" in a few crucial aspects. Their visuals, while still not as sophisticated as today, were "good enough" to pass as PC games every now and then. And the hardware got beefy enough that writing the games in C/C++ was an option. That's quite an important change, because from this point on, you didn't have to port as much. If you targeted the console, all you had to do to port a game, was writing a thin wrapper that takes over some of the jobs a console would do, and pass the results on to the OS. That worked quite well, because PCs, being a bit more powerful, could handle the resulting overhead. So, shifting development from the PC to the console was a cost cutting measure regarding ports (which are necessary to reach a wider audience). That at this point the assets of games became more and more expensive only added to the movement away from the PC.
>>3303961
So, because I couldn't fit this elsewhere in the rambling: why was the PC not big before that time? I think it has something to do with the variety of platforms available. Every company had their own little home computer, with different CPU, OS, etc. It was an annoying mess and games were ported all the time with varying success. In that environment, it's much easier to just aim for dedicated hardware with established dev kits, the consoles, and call it a day. Only in the early 90s the x86 PC dominated households so much, the fragmentation of home computers was reduced, and the machine was capable enough to do cool stuff. So it became much more useful than the consoles, from a dev point of view. When consoles caught up, that advantage faded, and ease of porting gained traction.
>>3304842
>Also, PC had quite low development costs, at least compared to consoles, requiring the upfront costs of the license and dev kit
There was also no censorship/content restrictions and you could put anything the fuck you wanted in a game.
I liked the Atari ST. How come nobody ever mentions it?
>>3305420
Because it fuckin sucks
Because it fuckin sucks
BECAAAUSE IT FUUUUCKIIIIN SUUUUUUUCKS
>>3305436
Like Jimmy has ever played an Atari ST
>>3305420
>16-bit platform
>PSG sound chip
fucking laughable, get out of here with that bullshit
>>3305521
And? Macs and PCs back then just had bleeper sound.
>>3305529
those were business machines
eventually IBM PCs got adlib and MIDI
>>3300880
>Why was America so far behind?
Given that we had real computers in the late 70s when Europeans still had calculator kits and 16-bit computers when they had 8-bit machines with no disk drives and rubber keys...
>>3300868
>superior choice
Not until recently. Back in the 8/16bit days PC gaming was good in tandem with console gaming.
>>3300972
>The Great Giana Sisters had far, far greater level design than Super Mario Brothers. Head to head, Giana Sisters is the better game.
Haha jesus christ m8, i'm a c64 fag from way back but fuck me that is some poor bait.
>>3306735
Why do people think Mario had such good level design? TGGS had far more intricate and challenging levels, more useful power-up, better music, and better boss fights. Is Mario just overrated because all the youtubers think it saved gaming?
>>3306757
Maybe because it's a rip off of mario?
