If Master System is so much better than the NES, how come its third-party support was so dismal?
Also,
>pause button on the console
lol?
??? they're the same system
It's better because it came out after the Famicom, I think the console that was out when Famicom released in 1983 was one of the SG systems before Mark III, which were more akin to Coleco Vision or Intellivision.
Famicom simply was the most flexible hardware to make games on as early as 1983, and it catched on heavily in Japan, and later in the rest of the world as the NES with an already stablished catalogue of games that continue to grow until the early 90s, with both MD and SNES out already.
SMS came out late, the graphics were better than the NES, but not enough to make people go "man, I want the SMS instead of the NES", that happened when more advanced consoles came out, like MD or SNES.
Research the shit practices that Nintendo used to back in the 80's. They made companies sign exclusivity deals to be able to license the ability to use their propriety cartridge system. You either played ball with Nintendo or you were blacklisted from selling games on their system.
Everyone loves Nintendo and forgets what assholes they were in the NES days.
>>3300273
PC Engine was pretty popular in Japan and it gave the Famicom a better competition than the Mark III did.
You're referring to Nintendo of America, right?
>>3300287
Yes, Nintendo of America ruled with an Iron fist in the 80's.
The SMS had more power. That's about it.
Holy shit... This summer is a bad one!
i grew up with a master system and i'm american. i like nes games but didn't get into them until later when i discovered emulation in the late 90s/early 2000s. there's some fun stuff but the games i really absolutely enjoy are on the master system. aside from say... castlevania 3.
It was technically superior in ways, but third-party support wasn't nearly as strong as with the NES.
It's not that developers are all-consumed with specs, there are numerous factors that might determine a given console's popularity with developers. You also have to take into consideration Nintendo's retarded policies at the time. Anyone who developed a licensed NES game was contractually forbidden from releasing games for competing platforms. Some developers got around this by publishing games under different aliases, though. The only way Sega could have any of its own games published on a Nintendo platform was if they outsourced the port to a third party.
The Master System was actually more common and thus more popular than the NES in some countries, but it's somewhat scarce in the U.S. I owned both an SMS and an NES growing up, but it was difficult to buy and trade SMS games due to the lack of titles that were ever brought overseas in the first place.
Nintendo is one of the reasons antitrust laws exist in the United States. Back in the day, a developer either agreed to develop for Nintendo and ONLY Nintendo, or they weren't allowed to develop for Nintendo hardware at all. If they developed for Nintendo hardware anyway, then Nintendo would drag their ass to court. And they did, several times. It was eventually ruled that Nintendo was trying to monopolize the market, so the courts told them to cut that shit out. Unfortunately, Sega and numerous other competitors had already suffered the effects of Nintendo's monopolistic practices.
i have a master system that doesnt work
i want to repurpose it for something, but i dont know what!
any ideas?
>>3301224
"throw a raspberry pi in it" is the retro gaming equivalent of "throw linux on it"
>>3301237
sounds like a plan
did you know Hiroshi Yamauchi wasn't actually a human being? He was a vessel that enclosed 7 yakuza oni spirits from 7 different regions in Japan. These oni monopolized the gambling in Japan with the hanafuda Nintendo cards and put a spell so that no other company could produce cards, truly evil.
Yamauchi, often referred to as "大魔王 ティラノ天堂" (Great Evil King Tyranotendo), tyranized the video games market with his monopolic practises, it is said that the Master System or the PC Engine didn't actually ever exist, and that they were invented time after so hide the fact that the Famicom was actually the one and only console existing in Japan.
>If Master System is so much better than the NES, how come its third-party support was so dismal?
Nintendo's shitty monopoly on consoles in the US that essentially said "You have to make games on our system or don't make them at all", and sadly the Master System just wasn't a worthy competitor in the US. Thankfully the SEGA Genesis came out and thanks to much superior 16 bit (because bits was the biggest buzzword) hardware and a real huge ad campaign, Nintendo decided it was time to open up competition.
>>3300272
America isn't 'the rest of the world', dumb fuck.
I prefer the Master System. I don't see much value in the NES.
>>3300992
>Anyone who developed a licensed NES game was contractually forbidden from releasing games for competing platforms.
>>3301010
Nintendo is one of the reasons antitrust laws exist in the United States. Back in the day, a developer either agreed to develop for Nintendo and ONLY Nintendo, or they weren't allowed to develop for Nintendo hardware at all.
These. Every other answer in this thread is speculation from armchair experts who weren't there and haven't read any good books about it.
>>3301556
>dumb fuck.
Why the insult?
I'm from Holland and the NES was definitely a success everywhere except in countries where bootleg consoles were cheaper like Russia or Latin America.
I know the Master System was more popular in some places of Europe, Australia and Brazil, but the NES still had market share in those countries as well. Anyway, OP's question was about third party support, and 99% of those were japanese anyway, so what matters is Japan in this case.
>>3301776
The NES could hardly be called a success in Europe outside of you cuckold country. If it is then the MS is a success in Japan and the US.
>>3301786
Why do you get this triggered? Alright, alight, the NES simply didn't exist, like, at all! outside of USA... happy now?
It still had better 3rd party support than the SMS because Japan, not being "muh evil nintendo monopoly" conspiracy theories.
>>3301786
I'm from Switzerland and the NES was popular here as well.
Anyway I think in Europe, consoles in general weren't a big thing, most people were playing on Sinclair and similar computers.
>>3300264
>Master System is so much better than the NES
>>3300269
>they're the same system
>>3300273
>Everyone loves Nintendo
>>3300287
>PC Engine was pretty popular in Japan and it gave the Famicom a better competition than the Mark III did
>>3301010
>Nintendo is one of the reasons antitrust laws exist in the United States
>>3301557
>I don't see much value in the NES
>>3301738
>good books about it.
Summer
>>3301802
Honestly /vr/ is like this all year long.
Old people and their 30 year old console wars.
>>3301802
Fuck off, Nintenyearold, go play your Wii U or something. Fucking moron.
>>3301812
You have some deep traumas with Nintendo. Don't get tired about shitposting against Nintendo? Do you even do anything else on this board?
>>3301815
Maybe you yankees should stop circle jerking about your crappy Anyess and your meme games.
>>3301820
Then do something to make that happen, bitching about it won't magically make people change their taste.
Make constructive threads about systems and games you like, make other anons know the games you like, etc.
Bitching and saying "nintenyearold! nintendildo! yanks!" only makes you look like a 15 year old from /v/ desperate for attention.
I know you're not a teenager, so wise up.
Take this as a friendly advice.
>>3301821
If I try then underage Nintenyearolds will just come in and ask if it was on their Anyess or 'Sega Genesis' some weird, Biblical nickname they gave to the Mega Drive.
>>3301821
DO
NOT
RESPOND
>>3301820
Then why don't you make threads circlejerking about the Esemess and its meme games then Drop Bear man?
>>3301832
>Esemess
I say MS not SMS. What is it with yanks and brand names?
>>3301828
But you didn't even try, how do you know? Every post of yours on this board are dedicated to Nintendo.
Try to spend less time bitching about a company you don't like, and make threads about games you like, and focus on the game itself, not comparing it to Nintendo games, or saying it's better than Nintendo games like you usually do.
You will see you'll have positive feedback instead of the usual backlash against you.
Honestly I don't know why you keep posting here, you seem a bit masochistic, like you enjoy getting insulted.
That's not sane, my man.
>>3301842
>you didn't even try
How do you know?
>>3301848
I just do ;)
>>3301854
Stop using emoticons, you underage faggot.
>>3301839
>What is it with yanks and brand names?
Well that's also how Japan, Europe, Brazil and even Australia generally refer to it in full; but if it makes you feel any better, then Emess it is.
>>3301864
No it isn't. Everyone just says Master System. Same as Mega Drive. But yanks always say Sega before they say Master System or Exodus.
>>3301868
But the big question is, how do you PRONOUNCE Sega?
What's the right way?
>>3301869
Service Games.
>>3301868
https://desustorage.org/vr/search/text/yanks/page/2/
>yanks
>>3301897
>all that cringe
DELETE THE ARCHIVES!
>>3301906
Who are you quoting?
>>3301831
But I just find it so fun talking with him since it clears up an otherwise boring day.In all honesty however, part of me wishes we could at least discuss Sega related topics without bringing console wars into the mix, because I actually think both systems really excel in their own individual strengths. I really think it's a shame that the MS wasn't more popular in the US.
>>3301786
master system was alot bigger here in ireland but my aunt in law owned a nes/snes
>>3301791
>not being "muh evil nintendo monopoly" conspiracy theories
What conspiracy theory? These were the actual policies Nintendo had at the time.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nintendo#License_guidelines
>>3302095
>[citation needed]
Nintendo weren't worse than any other company.
The PC Engine was a good sport against the Famicom in Japan, there is no excuse for the Master System to have failed to bad.
>>3302102
>[citation needed]
?
I just linked you to the section of Nintendo's Wiki article that outlined these policies.
>Nintendo weren't worse than any other company.
Unless Sega and other competing companies at the time enforced similar policies, then yes, Nintendo was the worse company.
I'm pretty sure at least most of Nintendo's competitors didn't, because there was a lot of multiplat going on with MSX-1 and SG-1000, and various computer systems.
>>3302095
All the sources for the whole "nintendo was a tyranic manipulator that enslaved children" come from the game over book from David Shaff.
I've read that book and I'm not sure if I believe everything on it.
I'd like to read another side of the story, not just an american journalist telling his vision. His book is used like a bible, especially on internet forum discussions, but it's just a book, not the be all end all.
For what is worth, OP asked why the NES had better 3rd party support than the Master System. The reason is not because Nintendo were a tyranic monopolic nazi political party, otherwise the PC Engine wouldn't have gotten better 3rd party support than the Master System did.
You can't blame Nintendo for everything bad that happens to other companies.
>>3302142
>A company's literal monopolistic policies might prevent potential competitors from getting a leg up in the market
Sounds like reasonable conjecture to me. But I don't think anyone can offer definite proof for or against this theory. Believe what you want, but it's an interesting coincidence that, once Nintendo was forced to drop these policies, its competitors gained a stable position in the market. Once the door to multiplats was opened, Nintendo starting losing its grasp, especially with the release of the GameCube. The Wii subsequently exploded in popularity thanks to WiiFit, but Nintendo hardware has since resumed its decline.
>>3302118
>I'm pretty sure at least most of Nintendo's competitors didn't, because there was a lot of multiplat going on with MSX-1 and SG-1000, and various computer systems.
Most of the multiplats between Nintendo and Sega consoles back in those days were mostly produced by Sega themselves obtaining the license of the games they wanted to port (such as Bubble Bobble or Double Dragon). I don't think Sega in Japan actually had any proper third-party licensing model (outside the oddball companies like Tsukada Original and Salio) until the Mega Drive.
>>3302142
>The reason is not because Nintendo were a tyranic monopolic nazi political party, otherwise the PC Engine wouldn't have gotten better 3rd party support than the Master System did.
Wasn't Nintendo alleged to have pulled that monopolistic bullshit only in America, and not in Japan? Not that they didn't have a monopoly in Japan, just that they didn't need to pull the same bullshit in order to get there.
>>3300264
>If Master System is so much better than the NES, how come its third-party support was so dismal?
Because Nintendo had monopoly on the market and abused it with questionable licensing practices - such as that any company publishing for the NES is not allowed to publish games on another system. Yes, this was an actual prerequisite.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SYKgFCW-f78
Who saw this as a kid?
>lol?
>lol!
What a shitty thread.
>>3302171
Then why didn't it stop PC Engine?
I don't want to believe what I want, I'd like to have an unbiased version of the history.
On the one hand, you have Nintendo fans claiming Nintendo saved the industry as a whole, on the other hand, you have anti-Nintendo people claiming Nintendo were the ultimate evil that enslaved 3rd parties to work for them. I don't think either is right.
>>3302208
It seems so, yeah.
We really don't know every inch and details, most of what people claim as "facts" are just versions of the real history, most of which was written by David Jeff in 1993.
If Nintendo were so evil, why did 3rd parties accepted to work with them and their hardware? That's the question. You could argue "nintendo seized the whole market after the 1983 crash", but what about Japan?
Also, if Nintendo were an actual monopoly, why did PC Engine exist (and was quite successful) in Japan? Why did the Master System still exist?
There must be something else in gaming history, we must stop blaming everything to "evil 80s Nintendo" if we want to have so actual unbiased answer.
>>3302336
>Then why didn't it stop PC Engine?
I'm not sure what you mean. I know Hudson had released Bomberman on both the PC Engine /TurboGrafx and the SNES, but I'm pretty sure Nintendo's licensing policies were abolished by that time. If not, then I can't imagine how there were so many multi-platform games between the SNES and Genesis in the first place.
And since when did PC Engine hardware have great sales? Only a handful of games were released outside of Japan. I remember my brother briefly owning one, but I think he traded it for a Genesis at some point.
>biased
What? I owned both an NES and an SMS growing up. SMS games weren't as proactively released in my region though, so most of my time was spent playing NES. And in retrospect, I do still think the NES had a much better library.
No, I'm not biased, and I'm getting tired of this thread running around in circles because you keep ascribing some perceived anti-Nintendo agenda to me and everybody else who disagrees with you. Unless you're new here, it should be evident that /vr/ is disproportionately obsessed with Nintendo.
I never cared for all this console wars bullshit, but there's no denying that Nintendo engaged in some pretty shitty practices back in the day. So did Sega. I still refuse to play Streets of Rage III or Phantasy Star due to Sega's retarded censorship policies in the West.
>>3302352
I'm talking about PC Engine in Japan, obviously, where it competed with the Famicom and did quite well, with strong 3rd party support, not as prominent as the Famicom had, but much better than the Master System for sure.
Also I wasn't aiming at you specifically when I said biased, I'm talking in general, and both ways, bias in favor of Nintendo, and bias against them. Let's stop mentioning Nintendo all the time, they did have their share of bullshit business practices, but I don't think that's the reason why the Master System didn't have better 3rd party support.
What would be really interesting is to interview old Japan suits from all companies and ask them directly, but I imagine that's not gonna happen, and we'll continue to base our opinions on personal anecdotical experiences about what we remember as kids being popular, and David Jeff's book.
>>3302362
Namco's support of the PC Engine really helped them early on. They still had a strong arcade presence back then and they were a bit bitter with Nintendo at the time since they were no longer getting any favoritism, so they got away with openly supporting the competition while still releasing Famicom games.
>>3302384
>they were a bit bitter with Nintendo at the time since they were no longer getting any favoritism
Interesting, source on this?
>>3302395
From The Ultimate History of Video Games by Steven Kent, in a section where they detailed the history of Tengen.
>(Namco president Masaya) Nakamura received some preferential treatment when he originally signed Namco as a Nintendo licensee, but when the contract expired, Yamauchi refused to renew those preferential terms. The change in terms led to an angry rift between Nintendo and Namco.
Quote from Nakamura
>Mr. Yamauchi tried to take away all of the special provisions of the contract that Namco enjoyed as a first licensee, and because of that, the relationship suffered. I became very upset about the whole situation at that time, but looking back, that was just his business management philosophy. I shouldn't have become upset about it, although I must admit that I was pretty upset at that time. But I have no ill sentiments now. When you consider the technical expertise and the depth of the technical know-how of Namco, which Namco currently possesses as reflected by the success of Namco games, Nintendo may have lost a lot more than Namco by taking that approach.
>>3301812
You're not fooling anyone. Is middle school really out for summer already?
>>3301812
he is right about the anti-trust laws. In this case, anti-trust laws really came about as a result of Standard Oil being way too powerful, thus leading to the Sherman Antitrust Act (though there were some minor acts before it, but not really super relevant here)
>Nintendo didn't want companies putting games on other consoles
>get called the devil
>Sony has the entire nation of Japan making games almost exclusively for their consoles
>no one says a thing
>Sony's marketing even directly says "are you with us or against us"
I'm not sure if there's some sort of hypocrisy, or it monopolization is a Japanese tradition.
>>3303874
>Sony has the entire nation of Japan making games almost exclusively for their consoles
That's because the PlayStation has been the most popular console brand over there ever since Nintendo lost the plot with the 64. The Xbox brand was never popular due to Japanese xenophobia, while PC gaming in Japan has always been pretty niche outside the visual novel and eroge genres.
>Sony's marketing even directly says "are you with us or against us"
[citation needed]
>>3303908
That just ties with how meaningless it would have been if Nintendo did allow companies to produce games for competing consoles. No matter how you slice it, the NES was going to make the lion's share of the profit, while the SMS and 7800 would make the least, forcing publishers to abandon them. This is even true today, with how certain pubs like WB focusing less and less into PC because it's not the best selling platform; same would have happened then, giving the NES a monopoly by default.
That said, I'm still surprised that the Japanese aren't bitching about how they only have one platform to make games for, yet this apparently was a common occurrence under Nintendo. I guess it's not relevant when there's really only one platform holder.
also billy bob should've made the og xbox do what spencer is doing with the xbox now; a bridge between pc and console gaming
>>3304091
>That said, I'm still surprised that the Japanese aren't bitching about how they only have one platform to make games for, yet this apparently was a common occurrence under Nintendo. I guess it's not relevant when there's really only one platform holder.
Japanese developers do support the Xbox though, but it's mostly for AAA projects such as Dark Souls and Resident Evil that were made to appeal a global market anyway. Hell, most of the time they don't even bother releasing the Xbox versions in Japan.
>>3300264
Master System may have a smaller library, but its games are playable.
>1988
>releasing a game with severe sprite flicker
lol?
>>3305405
Is "sprite flicker" the new argument you're gonna use from now on?
Also, how is the slowdown in those Megaman ports on Mega Drive? Wasn't SNES the only console with slowdown and Sega has a very fast CPU?
>>3305426
>how is the slowdown in those Megaman ports on Mega Drive?
Was a problem because developers coded in C on high-end computers, then backported the game to the Mega Drive. However, if you overclock the MD, the game will run at its intended speed. Still, even on its stock CPU, WW has less slowdown than your average Stupor Nintendo videogame.
>>3300264
It wasn't
/vr/ just has to shit on Nintendo at every single opportunity because they are all bitter contrarian hipster fraggles that should seek sunlight instead of crying onto their keyboards every day
>>3305431
Yeah sure, nice excuses.
Deal with it, you lost.
>>3305442
>Deal with it, you lost.
Reminder that Mega Drive globally outsold the Stupor Nintendo until Service Games killed it off in favor of the Saturn in '94, when Nintendo were only finally able to surpass it in sales. And yet they still lost to Sony anyways.
>>3305431
Hey moron, most people were playin the PAL versión.
>>3305461
You still lost, at life.
There is no continue now, just a long agony until the end.
this thread and all the replies are so fucking stupid it's unbelievable
the master system was technically superior, did great outside of the u.s. but nintendo marketed way better and had shitty business practices. that's all. end of story, faggots.
>>3305487
>did great outside of the u.s.
Not in Japan, and the PC Engine was able to compete against the Famicom despite said shitty business practices, but yeah this thread was never destined to be anything else other than console war shitposting from the very beginning.
>>3305480
>You still lost, at life.
Epic comeback, /v/! You sure showed him.
>>3305487
the master system lost for the same reason betamax lost
>>3305461
Reminder the niggadrive had a 2 year headstart and still couldn't win
>>3305487start button
>>3305473
The game still has slowdown even in the NTSC-J version, though.
>>3301869
The games pronounce it for you. This is why Aussies have no excuse for calling it Seagah.
>>3309994
Master System and '80s arcade games didn't have the SEGA voice sample.
>>3310000
Sonic 2 for the Game Gear did, so there HAS to be a master system game that had it.
