What went right?
>>3299846
>What went right?
Melee. But props to that for laying the ground work.
>>3299847
Word.
The game was solid even before Nintendo characters starred in it. It was destined for success, although from what I understand it was actually a semi-budget title, they never expected Smash to become as popular as it was. I remember there was little hype before the release.
Also this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K783SDTBKmg
>>3299852
I'm glad I still have memories of seeing this on actual TV.
>>3299878
Same here, and in latin america it was even better because the narrator was the same voice actor of Piccolo
Kirby and Fox against you = You're fucked up
>>3299852
>budget title
>had a large advertising budget, including TV commercials
I remember seeing the U.S. commercial for this game dozens of times.
Anything involving Mario is going to be a big-budget game, unless Nintendo outsources some crappy Mario spin-off to another studio.
>>3299898
Yeah don't quote me on that, but I remember reading the game wasn't a really big budget title, I might be wrong.
As for the TV commercials and advertising, yeah of course, but I don't remember any pre-release hype, like at all. I remember I bought many vidya magazines (including official Nintendo ones) and Smash wasn't being mentioned.
I first knew it existed when I actually saw the TV commercial. It was a kind of a suprise release, at least to me. I'm sure there must have been some magazines that had previews of the game, but I personally never saw any. I remember seeing the TV commercial, and going to the game store the same day to buy it.
>>3299915
My first time seeing the game was at a friend's house on their N64. I didn't know anything about it, and they told me it had all the famous Nintendo characters. Prior to that, I had never heard of it.
>>3299846
Very simple premise with lots of replay value. The hits feel like they have weight to them as well, and I think the fact most were all up close brawlers without many range special weapons made it more interesting.
Somehow I can get more enjoyment from this than Smash 4 and I don't know how
>>3300050
Same
>all the good nintendo characters
>no bullshit
>>3299847
Why is Melee the one everyone names as the best? I honestly never played much Smash Bros. Never had an N64 and by the time it came out, I was an edgy teenager that lost interest in gaming for several years.
Not much. Melee is better and more competitive.
>>3299846
shitty casual nintenkiddo party game that gets overhyped by dumbasses that believe it's a fighting game
>>3300161
>smash
>depth
HAHAHAHA
oh wait, you're serious. that just makes it even funnier
>>3300125
Because Melee is the fastest and the one with more metagame due to wavedash among many other things.
In reality it's just a very tight Melee community that refuse to adapt to different rosters, different nerfs and stuff.
In short, just another side of the FGC, as you can see here >>3300158 they have their own memes and quarrels with other people from the FGC because both Melee and Smash 4 are at EVO.
In general they're all consistently good games. Melee is still pretty good and even the first one holds up, play any of them whenever you have a chance and see for yourself if the gameplay clicks with you or not.
>>3300165
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vDjlV6Qtb90
FGC can't compete
>>3300187
Yeah it's pretty clear that Melee has more depth and a higher skill ceiling than most actual fighting games. People who disagree with this don't really know what they're saying.
>>3299915
There's certainly clues it's to it having a tighter budget (Luigi's everything, the fact that every portrait on the character select screen is reused from another source)
>>3300224
In an interview sakurai said the only reason the four secret characters (luigi, puff, falcon, and ness) were added was because they were able to use assets of other characters to make them. While luigi is obviously mario and puff is obviously kirby falcon and ness are kinda weird. I imagine for falcon samus was used as a base. Ness is really weird as his model reassembles no other character model, my guess is yoshi as they are the only characters to be able to double jump cancel.
Also let's post our mains, I always preffered kirby and ness. Honestly I find everyone in 64 fun to some degree.
I play melee competively. It is quite in depth but people often overrate how in depth it is. I also want to clarify that it is not balanced in the slightest.
Anyway in 64 I've always found Kirby and jigglypuff extremely fun. It's notable as in melee I main fox.
>>3299852
Get N or get out!
>>3299846
It was a fighter for little kids, then those kids grew up and kept playing.
>>3299846
Grow up and play a real man's fighting game, like Virtua Fighter.
>Talking about a non-retro game like Melee in a retro board
>Smash a fighting game
Literal cancer in this thread.
>>3300364
>Smash a fighting game
it's a party game. a party game that's better for fighting than actual fighting games, ironically enough.
>>3300364
But.. but.. they gotta share who they main with each other!
>>3300360
What if I like to play both Virtua Fighter AND Smash?
>>3300364
Retro is irrelevant. Retro by definition is 15 years or older.
Crude 2D Gaming
-Magnavox Odyssey, Pong
This era was dominated by Table Tennis type games. This is the era where gaming is in it's infancy.
Early 2D Gaming
-Atari 2600, Colecovision, Intellivision, etc.
This era was dominated by early 2D Gaming. This is the era where gaming begins to evolve.
Polished 2D Gaming
-NES, Sega Master System, Atari 7800, etc.
This is the era where 2D gaming is perfected. The best games of all time are released for these systems, ported to these systems, and true multi-generation franchises are born as well as modern gaming iconography and modern characters.
Upgraded 2D Gaming, Crude 3D Gaming
-Super Nintendo, Sega Genesis, etc.
This is the era where 2D Gaming is continually evolving. Bigger stories, longer games, better graphics, more colors. Very crude, rudimentary 3D begins mostly on the Genesis, but then on the SNES with the FX chip and SVP chip on the Genesis. Modern game design begins, but is limited due to the controllers at the time - (one of the quoted reasons Mario 64 was moved to the Nintendo 64)
Dying 2D Gaming, Early 3D Gaming
-Nintendo 64, Sega Saturn, PlayStation
This is the era that 2D begins to die, and the era that arcade ports are starting to fade as arcades themselves die out.
We are introduced to modern gaming, 3D analog sticks, and fully exploitable multi-level, huge and massive worlds that could never have existed before. Games span multiple CDs and can take days to complete. Memory cards become standard as many games now take multiple days to complete.
Polished 3D Gaming
-Dreamcast, Xbox, GameCube, etc.
This is the era where modern gaming is expanded upon, with the advent of faster internet speeds and the Dreamcast popularizing internet out of the box. Everything is kept from the previous era, but polished and made to look better, flow better, and feel better, including physics and more powerful hardware.
>>3300439
That's okay, I enjoyed VF Kids as well.
>>3300446
I'd really love to see a VF character in Smash.
There are Mii skins for Akira on Smash 4 but it's not the same, I want the same treatment Ryu got, a VF stage and music remixes.
Needs more Fighters Megamix 2.
>>3300449
You have 4 or so VF characters in DOA5 already.
>>3300470
I know, it makes sense since DOA is more similar to VF, but I'd like to see a VF rep on Smash all the same. I'm sure Tekken will get one before VF does though.
>>3299846
this game was so fun, especially with friends. the aerial combat is so much better than the other smash games
unfortunately, the ai was garbage, so i can't enjoy the anymore now that i'm a loner
>>3300674
you can try netplay
>>3300125
Because it has
>the most mechanics and tech
>legitimate combos
>the most movement options
>heavy physics, ie characters aren't floaty
>the fastest gameplay by far
>a middle game isn't based solely on mindgames
>most interesting and fun to watch character in SSB4 is the one from an actual fighting game with actual combos
just make a regular fighting game, please
>>3302341
Bayonetta isn't a fighting game.
>>3302343
no, I mean Ryu.
His moves actually have target combo properties and can be cancelled into special moves, a trait that's supposed to be in many fighting games, but is mostly absent in Smash.
But anyway, how come Ryu and Bayonetta have to be the ones with the real combos. Why do we have to have everyone else resort to spamming up tilts and everything.
>>3302349
>His moves actually have target combo properties and can be cancelled into special moves, a trait that's supposed to be in many fighting games, but is mostly absent in Smash.
If you had never played Melee before why didn't you just say so?
>>3300265
Don't quote me on this but I remember reading somewhere that falcon is based on remanents of some of the characters in Dragon King.
>>3299847
First post best post
>>3300360
I like both.
>>3299915
I'm sure it had a low development budget, but when Nintendo decided to make it their characters, they probably put some money into ads.
>>3304238
blue board bruh
>>3300445
>Retro by definition is 15 years or older
No it isn't you dumb fuck. I didn't even read the rest of your post, but I imagine it was just as full of blatant lies as this one.
>>3299846
well it was easy to learn, but with plenty of difficulty to offer you. also it was the only fighting game i had ever played that accommodated 4 players.
in fact now that im thinking about it, i dont know of any other games that let you fight 3 other people simultaneously. and definitely not back then
>>3304523
it's like he posted a picture from his fap stash just to reinforce that this is the statement of a total neckbeard
>>3300220
That's a pretty bold claim to leave unsubstantiated.
>>3300364
The sole reason I want the current /vr/ rules in place is to keep Melee out. I can handle WoW and Persona and Kingdom Hearts, but Melee is over the line.
>>3304730
Just wondering, what makes you prefer something like WoW or KH over Melee? They'd all bring doom to /vr/ all the same.
Also you're forgetting Halo, Call of Duty, Half-Life 2/Team Fortress, etc
6th gen is a big no-no.
>>3300265
Falcon is based on the original fighters in the game before it turned into Nintendo characters.
Ness is based off mario, which I say only because his model is similar, they have the same fighting polygon, and they have similar nair, bair, uair(i think), jabs, and rolls.
>>3304541
he was obviously using the /vr/ definition of retro.
>>3299846
Me keeping the copy that I got for $5 at GameStop back in 2002 after everyone switched to Melee.
>>3299886
Metal Mario kicked my ass when I was young. He's too fucking heavy!!
>>3300050
Because like you said, every hit has weight. The slow pacing requires well-timed moves and planning. Not to mention the simple and solid move layout and character roster.
>>3300158
What is it then? Just because it's not a street fighter clone does not make it any less of a fighting game.
>>3302536
melee has no special cancelable normals you goofball, if you're referring to jump cancelling shines that's close but different since it's not truly cancelling one attack into another. ryu is unique to smash in this regard.
>mfw Brawl and Smash 4
What was the intent with removing even simple things like jumping momentum and longer hitstun? Like why dumb down your series even further just because certain individuals play it competitively? I played 64 and Melee casually just fine when they came out. 4 is just so unsatisfying to me with how combos work since the few that can outright do them like Sheik or Bayo before nerfs are just boring to play and the other more unconventional character picks HAVE to rely on dthrow just to get a second hit in maybe or the other option being janky footstool setups.
Like I know jack shit about 64's meta or whatever, but at least I'm still able to turn it on and combo as someone like DK.
The commercial.
I think it's understated, but the roster was almost perfectly selected. The 8 main players are characters from Nintendo's (then) most popular games; There's Mario himself, there's Link rolling hot off the heels of OoT, the new favorite Pikachu, Fox from the amazingly popular Star Fox, Donkey Kong from the immensely successful SNES games and equally as iconic as Mario, the fan favorite Kirby from a string of great games, Mario's iconic sidekick Yoshi and star of his own games, and Samus from few but stellar and popular games.
The guest characters are a bit more obscure, or considered second best to their main counterparts. Falcon, Ness, Jigglypuff, and Luigi. Every character had a reason to be in, every character offered something different to the table, every character had a distinctive play style. The roster by and far has the best selection of characters relative to their relevance, and I think it's an overlooked aspect of the game. And that fucking soundtrack, man.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5DFhaprlRM
>>3299846
Sound effects
>>3300360
Oh boy so unique you are
>>3299846
Better than Melee, not as good as 4
>>3304985
I'm pretty sure every character have the same nair in 64 tho
>>3300125
Because it's the one that holds up best to being played seriously.
They're all fucking great for casual play though.
>>3306654
>They're all fucking great for casual play though.
except for brawl
>>3300125
This post being 3 days ago, but if you reading this also feels this way... Just play them all in order for a good while, clear classic mode, play some events, move on to the next.
Brawl and Wii U/3DS are all purposely crippled to not appeal to the "competitie scene". This isnt about that, but they suffered as experiences due to it. 64 and Melee are fantastic games, with Melee being the younger one with a bit more content but still having that same tight control
>>3306578
Its funny that you say that...
>>3300187
>muh execution
>muh APM
High amount of execution doesn't make a game more competitive than another. UMvC3 requires a lot of dexterity skills to move around and extend combos. Is it really more competitive though?
>>3300125
Honestly, I prefer 64 to Melee. I prefer:
>slower but still bearable pace
>matches end faster because bigger hitstun + bigger damage that led to bigger combo + most characters have shit recovery
>bigger hitstop and sound effects which gave more impact to hits
>less execution required
I come from a ST and SamSho background so Melee's stupidly fast airdasher-ish feel really doesn't suit me.
>>3308753
The thing about 64 is it really is terribly balanced, pikachu and kirby are fucking ridiculous. Yeah you see the occasional link or luigi in competitive play but pika and kirby with falcon and fox to a slighty lesser degree dominate the meta.
>>3308831
Doesn't one of the best 64 players use Jigglypuff?
>>3306895
PM fixed that
>>3308726
Considering it's still played albeit definitely dying I'd say so. People typically praise games like KoF or Guilty Gear for having a higher execution barrier.
>>3308831
>4 viable characters on 12
I don't see any problem with this. Anyway, I play Kirby.
>>3308845
>KoF
>higher execution barrier
That meme has to stop.
KOF in general isn't hard to play. The games are built around larger buffers so you have like 1 hour to input a super you want to combo into, plus "shortcuts" (which are actually longer, but more fluid inputs) and the button-hold trick. You still have to start and end the directional inputs correctly though. And hops? You just flick the stick upward (and hyperhops > flick it down and up). Simple.
Even HD combos in XIII aren't that hard to learn. People drop them because of tournament nerves, but y'know, everybody drops combos.
Execution as a skill is overrated. Pressing that many buttons in a set time and timing doesn't impress me. And anyway, KOF as high execution games not only is a lie, but it actually hurts more than it helps. People meme'ing this BS results in scaring people away, which then leads to fewer people to play which, if the trend still roll, may lead to a dead game. People praise VF as a high execution game (which is not true, at least not VF5). But tell me, do you know why shitposters like to point out an empty chair when talking about VF playerbase?
>>3308726
More depth =/= more competitive
>>3299846
Everything
>>3306336
I dunno anon but the mental gymnastics that modernNintendofags go through to justify those design choices are ridiculous. On the one hand, Smash 4 tards call Melee "glitchy" (lmao) or "broken," but on the other hand, every time someone finds some totally useless movement gimmick everyone creams themselves like "THIS IS GONNA BE OUR VERSION OF WAVEDASHING!!! SEE, SMASH 4 IS COMPETITIVE!!!"
4's combos are super lame but to me the biggest thing that fucked Brawl and Smash 4 is the removal of "dash dancing," which i put in quotes because it's more like "the way every 2D platform game has controlled since the beginning of time."
To bring this back to /vr/ territory, 64 is a really fun game. I have a friend who claims to be top 25 in the world, I dunno if that's true but he definitely cleans up tournaments around here, he's probably made >$1000 off 64 just since it became popular again. And a fun fact -- the tiers are pretty different between JP and US versions because smash DI was buffed very heavily in our version. DK is considered the worst in JP because of the weak SDI, but Luigi is the worst here.
>>3299898
Back then Nintendo went big into advertising. That was the time when publishers thought that if you had a large enough budget, you were bound for success anyway due to market penetration. Hell, They had multiple teams at Rare working out of a fucking barns in the english countryside doing god knows what. People like Christopher Seavor talk about how they just slapped things together in a short amount of time like diddy kong racing and all Nintendo would do was occasionally phone them up and ask them if they were going to hit a release date or not.
Not sure if that was just poor communication with third parties (typical Nintendo* or if there was a great level of trust with the developers that they associated with back in the 64 days
>>3299846
Nothing because the very idea of Smash Bros is ludicrous, novelty shite.
3310201
Not bad but not deserving of the (You).
The weekly I go to for Melee and PM runs it alongside the latter, I don't know much about it (at least compared to the other two) but I make sure to stop by and play a few sets of 64 whenever I go. The game's interesting as hell and the players are easily the chillest people I've met in any fighting game community.
>>3308836
The way he plays is to be as absolutely campy as possible and to just clutch it out. In recent tournaments he's won a lot since they now use a hack with a timer and he times his opponents out.
>>3310664
64 players are pretty chill, honestly I've had VERY few bad experiences with the smash community or the fighting game community in general. People just like to exaggerate the drama that does exist.
>>3310542
The funny thing is, it was (Me) who wrote that and it was the first thing I saw upon opening this thread and scrolling down.
>>3310201
This is probably just unbased bashing, but if not, please explain why you feel this way. I'd love to know.
>>3309931
>Also, these
The most amazing thing here is the amount of work put into this.
>>3312238
I dunno, the whole thing just felt wrong. An aberration, a folly that should never have been.
>Nintendo characters
>in a fighting game
>by Nintendo
>as if
>>3309541
In Rare's case, I'm sure it helped that they had the fucking midas touch back in the 90's. Goldeneye's multiplayer mode was slapped together as an afterthought by people who had basically never worked on an FPS before, and look how that turned out.
